The Dave Gerhardt Show – Episode Summary

Episode: What Your Messaging is Missing: How to Close the Meaning Gap (with Diane Wiredu, Founder of Lion Words)
Host: Dave Gerhardt
Guest: Diane Wiredu
Recorded: At DRIVE 2025, Exit Five event in Burlington, Vermont
Release Date: November 3, 2025

Overview

This episode features a live keynote session by Diane Wiredu, founder of the B2B messaging consultancy Lion Words, recorded at DRIVE 2025. Diane tackles a growing crisis in B2B marketing—the "meaning gap." She argues that while marketers have focused on clarity, value, and being compelling, they have neglected true meaning. The result is over-optimized, generic, and confusing messaging that fails to connect with buyers. Diane lays out the pitfalls and offers a structured, actionable framework for closing the meaning gap and creating messaging that actually resonates.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The B2B Messaging Crisis

• Problem Definition:
  • B2B marketing advice has been reduced to a "magic trifecta": be clear, show the value, be compelling.
  • Over-optimizing on these has led to bland, empty, or confusing messages.
  • Memorable quote:

    “We have over-optimized for everything except meaning... Our buyers, our customers, are out there like drowning, trying to decide if our solution is the right thing for them.” (05:47, Diane)

• Result:
  • Messaging bloat (too many promises, not enough substance).
  • Disconnect between brands and buyers—a crisis of meaning.

2. Fundamental Messaging Gaps & How to Fix Them

A. Missing a Flagship Message

• Definition:
  • Most B2B companies lack a single, overarching, memorable message—what Diane calls a "flagship message."
• Symptoms:
  • Messaging bloat: lots of features, benefits, and adjectives that dilute impact.
  • All-you-can-eat buffet analogy: when a company tries to cover everything, nothing sticks.
• Fix & Tactics:
  • Start with: “If you could be known for one thing, what would it be?” (11:13)
  • Use market research, not internal workshops or just sticky notes.
  • Three strategies:
    1. Name Your Villain: Identify the real problem your buyer faces (not just the competitor).
       • Example: Loom targets “time-sucking, draining meetings.”
    2. Sell the Win: Make a bold promise that motivates action.
       • Example: Copy Hackers—“Become the most profitable person in the room.”
    3. Plant a Flag: Own a specific attribute.
       • Example: Superhuman—“The fastest email experience ever.”
  • Memorable quote:

    “Finding that flagship message isn’t about having like the sexiest message. It’s just about finding that vessel to actually better communicate with your audience.” (16:06, Diane)

• Example in Action:
  • Content verification software—shifted from “workload reduction and ease of use” to “Be absolutely certain your content is 100% accurate.” Headline: “When it has to be right, teams use tbt.” (18:59)

B. Lack of Messaging Balance (Features vs Benefits)

• The Classic Debate:
  • Should we sell benefits or features? Both camps are right—but partial.
  • The real answer is to balance and “zoom in and out”—a concept borrowed from narrative distance in fiction writing (21:19).
    • Too much detail: confusing and dense.
    • Too zoomed out: generic and unmemorable.
• Message Spectrum:
  • Map messaging from technical features through immediate benefits to high-level outcomes.
  • Example: TOGGL (time-tracking software)
    • Feature: “Automated time categorization.”
    • Big-picture benefit: “Optimize team workflow” (too broad).
    • Specific benefit: “Know exactly where your team's time is going.” (23:05)
• Customer Research:
  • Find the specific, tangible value that resonates—said in customers’ own words, not just marketing speak.
• Common Pitfall:
  • Using generic value statements like “fast, actionable insights,” which provide no true differentiation.
• Corrected Approach:
  • Focused messaging: “Consolidate all your data sources in one place. Get a real-time view of sales and inventory without CSV uploads or juggling between tools.” (27:05)
• Exercise:
  • Map your copy along feature-benefit-spectrum, ensure it’s grounded in customer insight.

C. Missing Buyer-Framed Messaging

• The Context Problem:
  • Your buyers aren’t a blank slate—they bring baggage, assumptions, and specific stages of awareness.
  • Messaging often fails when it speaks to the wrong awareness level (too advanced, too basic, or not acknowledging buyer context).
• Framework:
  • Eugene Schwartz’s “5 Stages of Awareness” (Problem-Aware, Solution-Aware, Product-Aware, etc.).
  • Tailor your messaging according to where most of your buyers actually are.
    • Problem aware: Empathize with their struggle, call out pains directly.
      • Example: Shield for LinkedIn Analytics.
    • Solution aware: Show why your solution is the right option.
      • Example: Paddle for Merchant of Record solutions.
    • Product aware: Differentiate clearly from competition.
      • Example: Fathom Analytics leading with how they outdo Google Analytics.
  • Avoid templates and cookie-cutter homepage formulas:

    “There is no such thing as a one size fits all template for your website.” (34:18, Diane)

• Example:
  • Digital asset management software shifted from aspirational platform messaging to specific positioning—“Move on from Dropbox and Drive”—connecting to the actual buyer context of switching from messy, insufficient tools. (37:02)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Overoptimization in B2B Messaging:

  “We've overoptimized on being compelling, but we've ended up with these punchy, choppy headlines that read like cryptic crossword clues.” (05:46, Diane)

• On Copy vs Messaging:

  “Most copy problems are actually messaging problems in disguise.” (08:17, Diane)

• On Focusing Messaging:

  “If you could be known for one thing, what would it be? ... Would your team also give the same answer?” (11:13, Diane)

• On Avoiding Workshop Traps:

  “You can’t workshop your way to good messaging. Most messages that land come from research, not sticky notes.” (13:14, Diane)

• Narrative Distance Illustration:

  “Sometimes they zoom all the way in on the details... sometimes they zoom out to talk about the neon lights of a diner in the distance. Great stories have to zoom in and zoom out.” (21:19, Diane)

Q&A Highlights (41:46–49:12)

1. Platform Messaging Challenge

   • Q (Dasha): How do you keep platform/homepage messaging clear as you scale and add products for different buying committees?
   • A (Diane):
     • Homepage = front door, can't do everything. Push visitors quickly to relevant sections.
     • Find the unifying problem or promise, then streamline navigation to help people self-select.

2. Category Creation & "What" vs "Why"

   • Q (Audience): As a category builder, how do you balance explaining “what” the category is with “why” it matters?
   • A (Diane):
     • Don’t get trapped in the “category creation” conversation unless it’s really warranted.
     • Anchor messaging to "what are you replacing" (status quo), then bridge to value.
     • Most companies compete with spreadsheets/nothing—not another category.

3. Homepage Conversion vs. Messaging

   • Q (Audience): How to balance quick conversion-focused messaging (5-second test) with education/awareness on the homepage?
   • A (Diane):
     • Messaging should prioritize customer alignment and attracting the right people, not just immediate conversions.
     • Conversion and resonance are connected—good foundational messaging ultimately supports conversions down the funnel.

Timestamps of Key Segments

• [04:06] – Diane's introduction and the "meaning gap" in B2B messaging.
• [08:17] – Messaging vs. copy; why most copy problems trace back to messaging.
• [11:13] – The need for a flagship message and how to build one.
• [16:06] – Addressing “boring” industries and finding conviction.
• [18:59] – Example: transforming messaging for a content verification SaaS.
• [21:19] – “Narrative distance,” feature-benefit spectrum, and mapping messaging layers.
• [27:05] – Using customer research to fix feature/benefit clarity.
• [29:14] – The risk of mis-framing and the need for buyer-contextual messaging.
• [34:18] – Awareness stages and website messaging priorities.
• [37:02] – Digital asset management company: reframing from broad category to real-world buyer alternatives.
• [40:54] – Dave’s reflection on flagship messaging and Roy Williams’ “risk of insult is the price of clarity.”
• [41:46]–49:12 – Q&A: platform/product suites, category creation, homepage conversion.

Actionable Takeaways

• Audit your current messaging. Does it genuinely mean something, or does it just sound compelling?
• Identify your flagship message—force yourself and your team to answer: “If we were known for one thing, what would it be?”
• Map your website and collateral: Are you balanced in “zooming in and zooming out” (details vs. big picture), and is that balance informed by how your customers speak?
• Don’t use templates for messaging; ground everything in customer reality, especially their stage of awareness.
• Whenever you write copy, pause and ask, “What do we really mean?” (39:37)

Notable Quotes

• Diane:

  “You don't need the biggest budget. You just need conviction.” (16:14) “Every company that I’ve worked with has struggled with the flagship message.” (09:23) “If you have a solution that matters for your buyers, then it doesn’t really matter—you can still get this.” (16:06)

• Dave Gerhardt:

  “The risk of insult is the price of clarity… But if you can be specific to that one, and it was great.” (41:08)

Conclusion

Diane Wiredu offers an urgent call for more meaningful, buyer-centered messaging in B2B. Her frameworks and examples provide a roadmap to replace generic, overworked copy with precise, customer-driven communication. The focus: close the gap between what you say and what buyers take away—not with templates, but with thoughtful strategy, research, and clarity about what truly matters.

For further resources or to connect with Diane, find her at Lion Words. For more sessions like this, visit exitfive.com.