The Ezra Klein Show
Episode: Venezuela, Renee Good and Trump’s ‘Assault on Hope’
Guest: Masha Gessen
Date: January 10, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the Trump administration's recent actions—from the high-profile U.S. intervention in Venezuela to the killing of protester Renee Good—and their significance for American democracy, power, and the meaning of political spectacle. Ezra Klein speaks with Masha Gessen, journalist and expert in autocratic regimes, to discuss how the logic of spectacle has supplanted deliberation and law, framing these acts as deliberate ruptures with both international and democratic norms. The conversation explores the acceleration of authoritarian tendencies in the U.S., the use of propaganda through "the deed," historical parallels, and the implications for hope and civic action.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Propaganda of the Deed & Spectacle Politics

• Ezra Klein introduces the idea that the Trump administration operates by "propaganda of the deed" (the use of direct, often spectacular action to send a political message), comparing the strategy to early 20th-century anarchist acts ([01:02]).
• The Venezuela intervention and the bombing of alleged drug boats are cited as examples of spectacle designed to broadcast power, not following up with systematic planning or institutional process ([01:02–04:44]).

Quote:

"The Trump administration is an administration of spectacle... these spectacles, this propaganda, is meant to carry messages... It is meant to make clear how the world now works."
– Ezra Klein (03:13)

2. International Order, Law, and Their Unraveling

• Masha Gessen argues that the Venezuela intervention marks the "nail in the coffin" of the post-World War II international order and its aspirations to prevent global war and value human life ([05:02]).
• The United States’ recent disregard for institutions like the UN represents a qualitative break even from earlier violations (e.g., Iraq), which at least paid “lip service” to international norms ([06:24–10:22]).

Quote:

"If there's an event that I think of as the nail in the coffin of the new international world order, it will be Venezuela."
– Masha Gessen (05:54)

3. How Trumpism Uses (and Redefines) Spectacle

• Trump is described not as a reality-TV president seeking ratings, but as someone for whom spectacle is governance itself ([11:38]).
• The administration, as well as figures inspired by Trump (like Kristi Noem), operate by constant image construction, turning power into aesthetic display ([12:20–16:05]).
• This is contrasted with Biden’s “closed black box” style, which lacked public narrative—a "caretaker of the present" compared to Trump's "hyper-modern" public persona ([13:45–17:22]).

Quote:

"Trump is always in a movie. He is always watching himself on screen... there just seems to be this constant external observation of this character that he's playing, which I think is in some ways his superpower."
– Masha Gessen (12:20)

4. Deliberation, Institutions, and Power

• The disappearance of deliberation, especially Congressional debate or public policy process, reflects contempt not just for institutions, but for the obligations to one another that deliberation expresses ([19:51–22:13]).
• Trump’s exercise of power is depicted as unilateral and anti-deliberative by design.

Quote:

"Deliberation is... an expression of our obligations to one another... That projection of power is a rejection of any kind of obligations to one another."
– Masha Gessen (21:24)

5. Fascist & Authoritarian Aesthetics

• Discussion of how authoritarian, and particularly fascist, movements are obsessed with aesthetics—discipline, strength, classical beauty—while liberal movements eschew or neglect these dimensions (e.g., Trump's penchant for gold, classical architecture, military parades, and the Trump Kennedy Center) ([29:21–33:24]).

Quote:

"There’s a kind of transition from the quantity of things this administration is doing to a new quality of being in the world."
– Masha Gessen (11:15)

• Gessen connects these aesthetics to the promise of an imaginary (often racially defined) past, and to the exclusionary ideal of "powerful men in excellent physical shape" ([33:24–36:21]).

6. Attention Capture and Distraction as Domination

• Trump’s relentless production of spectacle, and the administration’s inability to focus, creates a perpetual feeling of distraction and fatigue—both for the public and inside government. This operates as systematic domination of attention ([36:21–39:35]).

Quote:

"It’s a non-stop production of spectacle, of big events, of assertion. We have done this today… If Venezuela happened three, four days ago, chances that we're still going to be talking about Venezuela next week are almost zero."
– Masha Gessen (38:48)

7. The Renee Good Killing: Domestic Repression and Its Message

• Klein links the rapid sequence of spectacles to the public execution of protester Renee Good by ICE agents, describing it as a "huge event," unusual only because the victim was a white woman and the agents were a paramilitary ICE force, not police ([39:35–43:46]).
• Gessen characterizes the act as the beginning of a new phase of state repression, where ICE (serving as a presidential paramilitary) is targeting domestic protesters, sharply shrinking the space for action ([40:58–43:46]).
• The discussion underscores how the framing of the event—by Trump and media—is part of the spectacle, further blurring the line between policing and political repression ([44:38–47:38]).

Quote:

"If protesters are being executed by paramilitary forces in the streets of the city, then either we're living through fascism or this is not fascism. And that choice is so stark and so desperate."
– Masha Gessen (45:17)

8. Speed, Fragility, and the Transformation of American Politics

• The Trump administration’s rapid transformation of American norms is compared to the slower pace of autocratization in Russia, Hungary, Israel ([50:03–50:52]).
• Klein posits that speed may mask hollowness or a lack of real consensus; Gessen counters that speed itself serves the autocrat, overwhelming slower democratic institutions ([50:52–54:13]).

Quote:

"Speed generally benefits the autocrat. Democracy is very slow."
– Masha Gessen (53:10)

9. Democracy, Popularity, and the “Totalitarian Bargain”

• They debate whether Trump’s lack of popularity and recent Republican defeats signal fragility (Klein: “Democratic metrics” might stop mattering under autocracy).
• Gessen brings in the Russian example: when well-being declined under Putin, Russians accepted poverty in exchange for a renewed sense of national greatness. Is Trump offering Americans a similar “totalitarian bargain,” and will they accept it? ([60:05–63:54])

Quote:

"Are people going to make it in this country? That’s what Trump is offering them… Are enough Americans going to accept that trade off?"
– Masha Gessen (61:07)

10. Assault on Hope

• The episode ends with Gessen’s reflection on the psychological impact of autocratic transformation:

"The most powerful country in the world unilaterally canceling the moral order is an assault on hope." ([66:13])

Notable Quotes & Moments by Timestamp

• [03:13] Ezra Klein, on spectacle as governance:
  "These spectacles, this propaganda, is meant to carry messages. It is meant to make clear how the world now works."

• [05:54] Masha Gessen, on norms breakdown:
  "If there's an event that I think of as the nail in the coffin of the new international world order, it will be Venezuela."

• [12:20] Masha Gessen, on Trump’s self-perception:
  "Trump is always in a movie. He is always watching himself on screen... there's no internality there."

• [21:24] Masha Gessen, on deliberation and democracy:
  "Deliberation is... an expression of our obligations to one another..."

• [38:48] Masha Gessen, spectacle as power:
  "It’s a non-stop production of spectacle, of big events, of assertion."

• [45:17] Masha Gessen, on fascist precedent:
  "If protesters are being executed by paramilitary forces in the streets of the city, then either we're living through fascism or this is not fascism. And that choice is so stark and so desperate."

• [53:10] Masha Gessen, on speed and autocracy:
  "Speed generally benefits the autocrat. Democracy is very slow."

• [61:07] Masha Gessen, on the “totalitarian bargain”:
  "Are people going to make it in this country? That’s what Trump is offering them… Are enough Americans going to accept that trade off?"

• [66:13] Masha Gessen, on hope:
  "The most powerful country in the world unilaterally canceling the moral order is an assault on hope."

Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:02–04:44] - Klein frames the episode around spectacle and propaganda of the deed.
• [05:02–06:24] - Gessen on the post-WWII order and Venezuela as rupture.
• [11:38–16:05] - Trump’s meta-spectacle, governing as persona, and impact on the Republican Party.
• [19:51–22:13] - Absence of deliberation and institutional weakness.
• [29:21–36:21] - Authoritarian aesthetics and their political functions.
• [36:21–39:35] - Spectacle as attention-capture and public exhaustion.
• [39:35–43:46] - Renee Good killing as escalation of state repression.
• [50:03–54:13] - Speed of regime change and institutional fragility.
• [60:05–61:36] - The “totalitarian bargain” and Trump’s future prospects.
• [66:13–67:33] - Closing reflections and book recommendations.

Book Recommendations (by Masha Gessen)

• Tomorrow is Yesterday by Hussein Aga and Rob Malley ([66:19])
• One Day Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This (National Book Award winner) ([66:43])
• The Hill by Harrod Clark (forthcoming novel) ([66:44])

Conclusion

The episode offers a stark assessment of America’s accelerating democratic regression, framing recent shocks—from international interventions to domestic acts of repression—not as anomalies, but as manifestations of a new logic of power. Through their discussion, Klein and Gessen trace the erosion of institutional norms and the rising function of spectacle, drawing urgent historical parallels and challenging listeners to recognize the assault not only on norms and rights, but on the very possibility of hope and political agency.