Podcast Summary: The Ezra Klein Show – Best Of: Why the Far Right Is Thriving Across the Globe

Release Date: December 6, 2024
Host: Ezra Klein
Guest: Pippa Norris, Comparative Political Scientist at the Kennedy School of Government, Harvard

1. Introduction

In this episode of The Ezra Klein Show, host Ezra Klein revisits a pivotal conversation with renowned political scientist Pippa Norris from 2022. The discussion delves into the alarming rise of right-wing authoritarian politics worldwide, exploring the underlying causes and implications of this trend. Drawing from Norris's influential work, particularly the book Cultural Backlash, the episode offers a comprehensive analysis of the socio-political shifts contributing to the flourishing of far-right movements across diverse global contexts.

2. The Rise of the Far Right Globally

Ezra Klein opens the conversation by contextualizing the global surge in far-right populism, asserting that this phenomenon transcends national borders and socio-economic landscapes. He highlights the success of figures like Donald Trump in the U.S., Marine Le Pen in France, and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil as emblematic of a broader, international trend.

“The rise of these right-wing populist parties and politicians is happening in many countries, in many contexts. It’s coming in wealthy countries and poor ones…” ([00:21])

Norris concurs, emphasizing that the ascent of far-right ideologies isn't confined to economically disadvantaged nations but is equally prominent in affluent societies with robust welfare states.

3. Cultural Backlash and the Silent Revolution

Central to the discussion is the concept of the silent revolution, a term coined by Pippa Norris alongside her late co-author Ron Engelhardt. This theory posits that a gradual shift in cultural values, driven by younger generations who grew up in more prosperous and secular eras, has led to a backlash among older cohorts resistant to these changes.

Key Points:

• Legacy of the Silent Revolution: Originating in the 1960s and 70s, this period saw younger, college-educated individuals prioritize post-materialist values such as autonomy, social equality, and environmentalism over traditional material concerns like economic security.

• Gradual Change: Unlike visible social upheavals, the silent revolution was incremental, slowly altering societal norms as older generations passed and younger ones emerged with different priorities.

“[...] values in society as a whole started to change. And that cultural cleavage, that basic division, started to be apparent in parties and in the issues that were being debated in politics as well.” ([04:47])

4. Generational Shifts in Values

Norris elaborates on how generational differences have become a driving force behind the political realignment seen globally. She distinguishes between life cycle effects—changes in attitudes as individuals age—and generational changes—differences rooted in the distinct formative experiences of each generation.

Key Insights:

• Formative Values: Individuals develop core values during their youth, which remain relatively stable throughout their lives, leading to persistent generational divides.

• Impact of Upbringing: Those who grew up during times of economic hardship or social unrest prioritized security and stability, while younger generations in more affluent times emphasized social freedoms and environmental concerns.

“Generational change is a really powerful force. It’s like a tide which is moving in a single direction.” ([14:41])

5. The Appeal of Populist Authoritarians

The conversation shifts to why populist authoritarian leaders resonate with significant segments of the population. Norris identifies several factors:

• Nostalgia and Restoration: Leaders promise to restore traditional values and societal norms that their supporters feel are being eroded.

• Transgressive Aesthetics: These politicians often adopt a rebellious, anti-establishment persona, rejecting conventional political decorum to appeal to voters' sense of disenfranchisement.

• Promise of Security: In times of perceived chaos or rapid change, strongman leaders offer reassurance and stability.

“A lot of these debates are bitter because it’s really us. Them. Instead of being able to find a common ground for compromise as you can on economic issues…” ([24:52])

6. The Role of Media and Social Media

Ezra Klein probes the influence of media, particularly social media, on the rise of far-right movements. Norris acknowledges the dual-edged nature of the internet:

• Amplification of Voices: Social media enables marginalized groups to amplify their messages, bypassing traditional gatekeepers.

• Echo Chambers and Misinformation: However, it also fosters echo chambers and the rapid spread of misinformation, reinforcing divisive narratives.

“The Internet reinforces, accelerates, doesn’t necessarily... change the bones of politics…” ([55:19])

While Norris remains somewhat skeptical of media as the primary driver, she acknowledges its role in reflecting and amplifying existing societal shifts.

7. Economic vs. Cultural Drivers

A critical debate centers on whether economic factors or cultural issues are the primary drivers behind the support for far-right populism. Norris presents evidence suggesting that:

• Cultural Issues Take Precedence: Surveys indicate that cultural concerns—such as immigration, national identity, and social values—are more predictive of support for populist parties than economic distress.

• Mixed Economic Indicators: Even in affluent nations with strong economies, far-right parties gain traction, indicating that economic stagnation isn't the sole catalyst.

“When you do that, what you find... is that the individual level economic indicators, by and large, don’t predict whether somebody voted for these parties.” ([69:43])

8. Prospects for the Future and Demographic Changes

The discussion turns to the long-term implications of generational shifts and demographic changes. Norris reflects on whether current trends signify a temporary turbulent period or a lasting transformation of political landscapes.

Key Considerations:

• Lag Effect: A potential lag exists where cultural backlash persists even as younger, more liberal generations become dominant, especially if political systems fail to adapt.

• Democratic Backsliding: Institutional changes that weaken democratic norms may exacerbate the rise of authoritarianism, challenging the optimistic view that generational liberalization will inevitably prevail.

“Politics gets in the way and other things may not hold in order to allow that representational change to actually occur.” ([87:28])

9. Book Recommendations

Towards the episode's conclusion, Pippa Norris recommends three pivotal books for listeners seeking deeper insights into authoritarianism and democratic backsliding:

1. "Popular Dictatorships" by Alexander Matysow
   Examines how certain authoritarian leaders gain genuine public support by promising security and order amidst political and economic crises.

2. "Spin Dictators" by Sergei Guriev and Daniel Treisman
   Explores the evolving nature of totalitarian regimes, focusing on how modern dictators use propaganda and controlled elections to maintain power.

3. "The Origins of Totalitarianism" by Hannah Arendt
   A classic analysis of the rise of totalitarian movements in the 20th century, providing foundational insights relevant to contemporary authoritarian trends.

“Anna Arendt, and we need to read the Origins of Totalitarianism and reflect on the developments of the 20s and the 30s...” ([87:21])

Conclusion

This episode provides a thorough exploration of the factors fueling the rise of the far right globally. Through the lens of Pippa Norris's research, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of how cultural shifts, generational changes, and media dynamics intertwine to empower authoritarian populist movements. The discussion underscores the complexity of modern political realignments and the challenges democratic institutions face in adapting to these profound societal transformations.

Notable Quotes:

• “There is nothing as powerful as the power of us.” ([00:17])
  Pippa Norris emphasizing collective strength.

• “The rise of these right-wing populist parties and politicians is happening in many countries, in many contexts.” ([00:21])
  Ezra Klein highlighting the global nature of the trend.

• “Generational change is a really powerful force. It’s like a tide which is moving in a single direction.” ([14:41])
  Norris on the impact of generational shifts.

• “A lot of these debates are bitter because it’s really us. Them.” ([24:52])
  Norris on the deep divisions fostered by cultural conflicts.

• “When you do that, what you find... is that the individual level economic indicators, by and large, don’t predict whether somebody voted for these parties.” ([69:43])
  Norris challenging economic explanations for populism.

• “Politics gets in the way and other things may not hold in order to allow that representational change to actually occur.” ([87:28])
  Norris discussing the challenges posed by political systems.

Note: Timestamps correspond to the transcript sections provided and mark the beginning of key discussions.