The Contradictions of Gavin Newsom

Wed Dec 10 2025

Gavin Newsom is the 2028 Democratic front-runner. That’s what many of the polls and the Polymarket betting odds say. It’s been widely believed that Newsom wants to run for president someday. But belief that he could be a front-runner was less common. A liberal white guy from a state that much of the country considers badly governed just didn’t seem like the profile the Democratic Party was looking for. But as a Californian who has watched Newsom for a long time, I was surprised by him this year. After President Trump returned to the White House, Newsom started a podcast, interviewing people like Charlie Kirk, Steve Bannon and Michael Savage, which made a lot of Democrats mad. At the same time, Newsom turned himself into the leader of the resistance — trolling Trump on social media and pushing a ballot initiative to end California’s independent redistricting to counter the partisan redistricting effort in Texas. Newsom has been willing to try things and take risks. He has shown a...

Transcript

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That Gavin Newsom, the Governor of California, might want to Run for President someday. I mean, that's been widely believed for a long time. That Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, would have a chance if he ran for president that was less widely believed. Liberal white guy from a state the country considers badly governed just didn't seem like the profile that either the Democratic Party or the country was looking for. Well, things change. If you look at polls of the likely Democratic field now, Newsom leads in many of them. If you look at the polymarket betting odds on who will be the 2020 Democratic nominee, Newsom is far ahead of anyone else. Jonathan Martin, POLITICO's senior political columnist, he wrote a piece entitled, Admit It, Gavin Newsom is the 2028 frontrunner. Look, I know it's all very early to be talking about 2028, and in this episode I try not to. But even putting the future aside, Newsom has become without any doubt one of the Democratic Party's leaders at a time when the party is desperately looking for leadership. And as a Californian, someone who has watched and covered Newsom for a long time, he surprised me. He's taking risks. He's trying new things. He's a feel for this moment, not just in politics, but in attention and in how attention now works in a way that very few other Democrats have demonstrated. And he just doesn't seem in the way so many Democrats seem afraid. He doesn't seem afraid of trying things and failing, doesn't seem afraid of making his own side angry, doesn't seem afraid of experimenting. It's working for him. It began right after the election when Newsom launched a podcast where he began interviewing people like Charlie Kirk, Steve Bannon, Newt Gingrich, Michael Savage. I mean, that podcast pissed Democrats off. I heard from many of them. But I watched him in those episodes. I thought, he's listening and I wonder what he's learning from them. And at the same time, Newsom turned himself into the leader of the resistance. He began Trolling Trump on social media, talking about the president, president in the terms the president talks about everyone else. And it worked. Suddenly I was getting sent left and right Newsom tweets, of all things. And then when Texas began its mid cycle redistricting, Newsom did something many found shocking. He pushed a ballot initiative to pause California's independent redistricting. A huge point of pride in California and something he had, by the way, supported. And instead created these highly partisan maps to counter Texas. And that ballot initiative, which could have failed. It would have looked terrible if it failed, passed overwhelmingly. But Newsom's problem as a leader for the Democratic Party is what it has always been. Look, California, in my view, is the greatest state in the nation, the place I love more than anywhere else on earth. But at a time when the politics of affordability are paramount, California routinely ranks as the least affordable state in the nation. Newsom has signed many good bills, done many good things, but he has not fixed that. So I want to have Newsom on the show to talk through what he has learned from the right, what he believes must be the future of the Democratic Party, and how he answers California's manifold critics. As always, my email, Ezra kleinshoneytimes.com.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Contradictions of Gavin Newsom

The Ezra Klein Show | December 10, 2025 | Host: Ezra Klein (New York Times Opinion) Guest: Governor Gavin Newsom

Overview

In this wide-ranging conversation, Ezra Klein sits down with California Governor Gavin Newsom to explore the intersection of politics, policy, and identity in both California and the broader United States. The episode delves into Newsom's willingness to engage with ideological adversaries, the existential tensions within the Democratic Party, the precarity of American democracy, persistent issues like affordability and inequality, and the challenges of governing, delivering, and communicating in the digital age. Throughout, Newsom reflects candidly on what he's learned from the right, the hard limits of policy, the paradoxes of leadership, and the distinctive political culture of California.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why California Creates Both Political Right and Left Extremes

Ezra Klein opens by observing how many prominent figures in the contemporary right hail from California, including Ben Shapiro, Stephen Miller, and Peter Thiel.
- Newsom: Points to California’s sheer population and ideological diversity: “You have more Republicans in California than most states have population...So in a very pluralistic state, politics is very diverse, despite the perception of being a big blue state.” (05:26)
- Reflects on historic moments like Pete Wilson’s Prop 187 (1994) as a pivotal, nativist backlash that catalyzed grassroots Democratic rebuilding.

2. Learning from the Right, Engaging with Adversaries

Newsom’s podcast featuring figures like Charlie Kirk, Steve Bannon, and Michael Savage caused consternation among Democrats but was rooted in deliberate engagement with different worldviews.
- Newsom on Kirk: Noted Kirk’s deep sincerity and organizational insight regarding young men’s grievances and a sense of despair. But critiques that the right diagnoses but doesn’t treat the underlying problems: “They have no prescription to actually address the real and substantive issues, but they sure as hell identify the problem.” (13:19)
- On Bannon: Acknowledges Bannon’s worker-centered industrial policy ideas: “He’s making a rational case for an industrial policy that’s worker centered...We would be wise to listen. Success leaves clues.” (44:05, 45:52)
- Newsom emphasizes humanity and the need to “find the love” even across ideological divides (31:52).

3. California’s Crisis of Affordability and Housing

Affordability—especially housing—rates persistently as Newsom’s most intractable political vulnerability.
- “The poster child of our failure as a state is the issue of poverty...But look, he [Savage] loves our state. That’s why he’s living here.” (33:07)
- Efforts include historic numbers of new bills, zoning reform, and new statewide accountability, but localism remains a huge obstacle: “You’ve got 470 cities. You have 58 counties...That’s the challenge. It’s that labyrinth.” (37:10)
- Acknowledges economic trends: “Productivity [in housing construction] is down about 30% since 1970...” and discusses innovations like modular, prefab, and 3D-printed housing (38:46–40:29).

4. Gap Between Policy and Lived Reality

Ezra: Presses Newsom repeatedly on why good policies don’t translate into improved satisfaction or electoral returns: “If these policies were so good...then what is the disconnect? Was the policy not actually that good?...What broke?” (21:41)
- Newsom: “Program passing is not problem solving. When you pass a piece of legislation, that’s day one.” (22:12)
- The speed of policy lagging behind public need: “Liberal democracy will not work if policy cannot deliver at the speed of elections.” (24:46)

5. Tech’s Influence, AI, and the Shifting Economy

On AI: Both promise and threat, creating economic and psychological anxiety, especially regarding jobs.
- “Anything that gets repeated gets replaced [by AI]...You’re seeing mass adoption, particularly in China and elsewhere. So this is real.” (64:01)
- Newsom highlights gendered impacts and the need for universal policies like “universal basic capital” or “baby bonds” (65:34).

6. Wealth Inequality and Redistribution

Ezra cites staggering wealth gaps; Newsom supports a progressive tax regime and redistribution, while critiquing national policy failures (49:30-54:00).
- “We’ve got to democratize our economy to save our democracy. It’s just back to code Red.” (49:56)
- On wealth tax: “By definition, this debate is going to heat up because of the staggering...wealth.” (53:02)

7. Identity, Immigration, & the Meaning of American-ness

Responds to nativist conservative arguments (like J.D. Vance’s) that “real Americans” are those of long lineage:
- Newsom rejects ethno-nationalism: “I don’t know what that...this concerns me. I just don’t think this is who we are...I think California stands out as a counterpoint in terms of economic growth, prosperity, innovation, dominance...Because of that vibrancy.” (80:08)

8. Culture, Belonging, and the Democratic Party

Newsom is candid about the Democratic Party’s need for both wider cultural sensitivity and a “big tent” approach—from Joe Manchin to Zoran Mamdani.
- "Our party needs to be many parts, one body. And so this idea of exclusion...That's judgment, that's purity." (83:39)
- Recognizes the power of culture war politics and the danger of being judgmental or exclusionary: “We talk down to people. We talk past people. So damn judgmental.” (70:12)

9. Attention, Media, and Risk-Taking in Politics

Newsom discusses how new media and the politics of attention reward risk-takers, even those who “fail forward fast.” (94:03)
- Describes his communication style as shaped by dyslexia and not being a Harvard-credentialed “A” student. Embraces “authenticity” and learning from mistakes.

10. Paradox and Both/And Politics

Ezra: “You seem more comfortable with contradiction and paradox in your own person than most people I see in politics.”
- Newsom: Emphasizes the need to do both—engage adversaries and fight resistance, pass progressive reforms and recognize political limits. Quotes “Built to Last” on the “genius of and.” (88:29)

11. Urgency, Democracy, and the Need for Both Conflict and Healing

Newsom underscores the existential threat posed by Trump and the necessity of fighting aggressively, while also seeking repair and unity after the crisis.
- “We have to fight fire with fire...But in terms of how we get to the other side, how we lock hands moving forward...We can't keep this up. We're polarized, we're traumatized, we're exhausted.” (101:44)

12. Book Recommendations

“Built to Last” by Jim Collins
“Meditations” by Marcus Aurelius (with a caveat that not everyone finds comfort in the Stoics)
Mentions reading about the Great Depression ("1929") as currently on his nightstand. (106:11–108:41)

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

On California politics:
“You have more Republicans in California than most states have population...So by definition, in a very pluralistic state...politics is very diverse.” (05:26, Newsom)
On what’s fueling right-wing populism:
“There’s this dialectic, right? There’s that pushback to orthodoxy and that friction that emerges. And people that emerge from that emerge with a very strong point of view.” (05:53, Newsom)
On young men’s malaise:
“If you’re 30...you’re the first generation living that’s not doing better than your parents. And there’s a sense of nihilism that’s growing.” (13:39, Newsom)
On the disconnect between policy and outcomes:
“Program passing is not problem solving...when you pass a piece of legislation, that’s day one.” (22:12, Newsom)
On managing paradox:
“It is both. Both and...moving away from the binaries.” (88:29, Newsom)
On immigration and American identity:
“I just don’t think this is who we are...California stands out as a counterpoint in terms of economic growth, prosperity, innovation, dominance. . .Because of that vibrancy, half the AI researchers are Chinese.” (80:08, Newsom)
On learning from defeat:
“We got crushed in the last election. Donald Trump...We need to find common ground, not just stand our ground.” (87:19, Newsom)
On facing political contradiction:
“Bring it on, contradictions. But that I think I can explain, perhaps evolutions. . . It wasn’t a political evolution, your position being that...it comes from my heart, not just my head.” (94:39, Newsom)
On risk-taking and communication:
“I’m a fail forward fast guy. You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. I got a 960 on my SAT...I can’t read a speech. I have severe dyslexia...but also my willingness to try new things and learn from my mistakes.” (94:03–94:28, Newsom)
On Trump and the stakes:
“I think Trump is one of the most destructive presidents and human beings in my lifetime. I think this republic is at real risk, this country being unrecognizable, and I have no patience for people that want to indulge it.” (98:24, Newsom)
On politics as attention:
“You can’t do a good podcast with a politician when you can watch them buffering before they answer. . . You seem pretty comfortable with risk.” (93:12, Klein)

Notable Segments and Timestamps

California as an incubator for both right and left: [05:00–08:00]
Newsom’s engagement with conservative voices: [11:00–17:30]
The youth grievance and housing crisis: [17:30–21:00]
Policy vs. rhetoric, lived experience: [21:00–26:00]
Housing policy and obstacles: [36:00–41:16]
AI, tech dislocation, and the future of work: [59:00–65:30]
Wealth inequality and redistribution: [48:40–55:36]
Immigration, pluralism, and American identity: [73:40–83:17]
Democratic Party’s “big tent” and culture wars: [83:17–87:19]
Newsom on contradiction, paradox, and both/and leadership: [88:29–90:41]
Book recommendations: [106:11–108:41]

Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode offers a rare look at a high-level political leader who is unafraid to surface the contradictions within his own party, state, and personal philosophy. It’s a candid meditation on risk, rhetoric, learning from adversaries, and the ever-changing landscape of American politics. Newsom’s willingness to both listen and troll, to defend progressive values while adapting to hard realities, and to embrace both unity and conflict, offers a uniquely Californian, but nationally relevant, blueprint for navigating the uncertainties of the current moment.

Recommended for:
Anyone interested in the future of the Democratic Party, the role of political contradiction, California’s influence on national trends, the practical challenges of governance, and the art of bridging divides without abandoning conviction.