The Ezra Klein Show: "The Opinions: Bernie Sanders and Ruben Gallego"

Date: December 19, 2025
Guests: Senator Bernie Sanders, Senator Ruben Gallego
Interviewer: David Leonhardt (New York Times Opinion)
Summary Prepared By: [Your Name]

Episode Overview

This episode presents two extended interviews, first with Senator Bernie Sanders and then with Senator Ruben Gallego, exploring the future of left-of-center politics in America. The unifying theme: how can Democrats reclaim and authentically serve the working class? Through candid conversations, both guests dissect missed opportunities, cultural and policy missteps, and offer sharply contrasting, yet sometimes converging, blueprints for winning back the trust of average Americans—while also wrestling with immigration, the logic of markets, abundance versus equity, and patriotic narratives that counter the drift toward right-wing nationalism.

Part I: Senator Bernie Sanders on the Democratic Party, Oligarchy, and Working-Class Politics

The Shift of the Democratic Party (03:15–09:45)

• Sanders recalls the Democratic Party of the past as the party of the working class—“period, that's all, you’re working class, most people were Democrats” (04:45).
• Highlights the late 1970s as the moment the party got “attracted to big money,” which he views as disastrous for both the party and the country.
• Criticizes prior Democratic elites for failing to listen to working people and the labor movement regarding the dangers of free trade agreements and the offshoring of manufacturing jobs.
• Claims that recent shifts in party rhetoric (“the consensus has shifted in your direction”) are often performative rather than substantive.

“Democrats lost the election, all right? They abdicated. They came up with no alternative... They even today don't acknowledge the economic crises facing the working class.” —Bernie Sanders (07:20)

Authentic Working-Class Politics (09:50–13:55)

• Sanders calls for opening “the bloody doors” of the party (10:04) to invite working class people, young people, and people of color as both participants and candidates.
• Shares experience from a West Virginia rally, criticizing the party for having “abdicated” and become “billionaire-funded, consultant-driven, way out of touch.”
• Argues for policies that center the economic security of ordinary Americans—guaranteed health care (Medicare for All), housing, campaign finance reform.

“Our job is to create an economy and a political system that works for working people, not just billionaires.”—Bernie Sanders (09:36)

Social Tolerance and Electoral Strategy (11:51–13:55)

• Asserts the importance of certain progressive social beliefs (abortion rights, anti-racism, anti-homophobia), but also stresses the need for tolerance and coalition: “So what, you don't agree with me on every issue... we're gonna work together and come up with the best plan that we can.” (13:46)
• Describes the need to speak plainly and relate to rural and working-class America, referencing his own upbringing and historical electoral successes in Vermont.

Immigration, Borders, and Political Blame (13:55–17:54)

• Rebuts the notion of “open borders,” dismissing it as a “Koch brothers proposal” (14:18).
• Supports comprehensive immigration reform with a path to citizenship for undocumented people, condemns Trump’s demonization of minorities.
• Stresses that “nation states... have borders, and if you don’t, you don’t have a nation state.” (16:31), highlighting the importance of border security alongside compassion.

The Roots of Trumpism: Oligarchy and Authoritarianism (18:58–23:42)

• Sanders focuses on “fighting oligarchy” rather than simply fighting Trump’s authoritarianism, arguing that both are intertwined (19:31–21:48).
• Details the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a few, drawing analogies to Russia and Saudi Arabia: “We have a political system which is dominated by the billionaire class... What do you call that country?” (21:09)
• Warns of billionaires’ disdain for democracy and regulatory oversight, citing Peter Thiel’s rhetoric and Trump’s alliances (22:14–23:39).

Universal Problems, Message, and Lessons for Democrats (23:54–26:59)

• Refuses to draw sharp red/blue state distinctions: issues like housing, child care, and affordability are shared nationwide.
• Argues that boldness and the willingness to demand a decent standard of living for all is the proper response to oligarchy.
• On policing: Emphasizes respect for police while supporting reform, citing his own history as mayor: “Treat them with the respect that they do, doing a very, very difficult job... But police play a very important role and they should be respected.” (25:58)

On Bureaucracy and the Abundance Debate (27:07–29:31)

• Acknowledges the problem of bureaucracy—especially federal—but calls breaking it down “good government,” not ideology: “Ideology is, do you create a nation in which all people have a standard of living? Do you have the courage to take on the billionaire class?” (28:04)
• Argues efficiency matters but shouldn’t be confused with solving deeper economic inequalities.

Progressive Patriotism and Narrative (29:36–33:33)

• Suggests the antidote to right-wing nationalism is a progressive economic agenda that delivers for all, across national boundaries—but insists on patriotism rooted in Lincoln's vision of "government of the people, by the people, for the people.”
• Shares personal story of his immigrant father’s awe at American opportunity: “This is a great country, has given so much to so many people, and we're going to do everything that we can to make sure that Trump does not divide us up, does not move us into an authoritarian society.” (33:25)

Part II: Senator Ruben Gallego on Messaging, Moderation, and the Meaning of "Winning"

Real-World Experience and Entry Into Politics (37:47–39:15)

• Gallego recounts going from Harvard to joining the Marines out of a sense of duty, then heading to Iraq and being fundamentally changed by war.
• Runs for office post-service, seeking meaningful work and public service.

Why Democrats Struggle With Working-Class Voters (39:40–45:31)

• Gallego credits his Arizona win (while Harris lost the state to Trump) to relentless focus on “what was actually happening on the ground”—people “worried about being able to make the rent... border security... the American dream.”
• Criticizes national Democrats for delivering “nebulous” or academic messaging focused on equity or justice, rather than concrete, emotional appeals to hope, prosperity, and dignity.

“I remember those days to work and work and work and then look up and you're still underwater... And that is what was dragging down a lot of people in Arizona.” —Ruben Gallego (41:24)

The Power of Everyday Language and Symbols (Big Ass Trucks) (45:31–47:48)

• Gallego’s “big ass truck” anecdote becomes shorthand for tangible economic aspiration—a symbol that resonates not just for Latino men, but across the working class.
• Argues Democratic messaging underestimates how much ordinary people want—deserve—prosperity and security.

Abundance Versus Equity, and Bridging the Divide (49:33–51:09)

• Refuses to pick between “abundance” (build more, faster; reduce bureaucracy) and populism (rein in monopolies, raise wages, universal benefits): “Why not both?”
• Praises Zoran Mamdani's focus on affordability as a unifying theme.
• Stresses that “the American people aren't that way” (ideologically rigid): they want both faster results and protection from predatory power.

Breaking Through: Authenticity and The Attention Economy (52:19–53:52)

• Discusses how to be a moderate who can still get through to voters on social media—by connecting real life (boxing matches, car and truck shows, “pickleball tournaments for white suburbanites”) to substantive bread-and-butter issues.
• Insists that authenticity and firsthand economic experience are irreplaceable: “It will carry through.”

Universal Economic Concerns Trump (Most) Identity Politics (54:03–55:05)

• Argues that Democratic coalitions are best united by concrete economics (“the personal checking account”) rather than identity alone.
• Warns that both political parties overestimate the enduring power of group identification outside moments of direct threat, and that failing to respect material aspirations cedes ground to Trump.

Immigration: Security, Reform, and Political Strategy (55:05–61:32)

• Defends his record as consistent: pro-border security, pro-reform (“if you’re a criminal, you should be convicted and deported”).
• Traces the party’s leftward drift on asylum to the Trump–Biden era, arguing that many Latino voters did not support an “extremely liberal” approach.
• Urges Democrats to “give the voter the option” of responsible security plus humane reform, not “no security at all.”
• Strategic advice: build winning coalitions by highlighting the most sympathetic immigrant cases (“Rosa Parks moderation”), not falling into rightwing “traps.”

Winning is Not a Luxury: The “Marine Perspective” (62:52–64:21)

• Gallego says Democrats need to prioritize victory with military planning rigor—define “mission objective,” tolerate discomfort, and push for conversations elites find “icky.”
• Warns that Democratic loss means structural damage (“we won’t have the Supreme Court... puts us out of power”).

The American Dream: An Old Blueprint, A New Cause (65:19–68:26)

• Gallego ties his personal story (immigrant, single mother, sleeping in the living room, making good on opportunity) to a vision for national revival.
• Bemoans the “slow erosion” of the “infrastructure of hope,” insisting that the real need is to “put back the policies and... infrastructure of how to become successful.”
• Emphasizes optimism and resolve: “We have to want to win and plan to win. Those things don't necessarily happen in Democratic politics.” (62:52)

“If I have to say what the future is, it’s the American dream. It’s the thing that’s driven us forever... I don't want any other young man or woman have that feeling [of hopelessness].” —Ruben Gallego (68:26)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Bernie Sanders (10:04): “Open the bloody doors. Meaning let working class people in with all of their flaws.”
• Bernie Sanders (14:18): “[Open borders]—that’s a Koch Brothers proposal. That’s a right wing proposal which says essentially there is no United States.”
• Bernie Sanders (29:22): “Breaking through bureaucracy and creating efficiencies, that’s good government. Sure, that’s what we should have. Ideology is, do you create a nation in which all people have a standard of living?... That’s ideology.”
• Ruben Gallego (43:35): “We have this situation within Democratic talk where we kind of shy away from [prosperity] because we feel like that's somehow icky.”
• Ruben Gallego (46:20): “The ‘troquita’... it really is a status symbol that you have succeeded in this country. It means you can afford a brand new, nice truck... it helps you pay the bills... it is as simple as that.”
• Ruben Gallego (62:02): "Let's find the most caring person, the person that people can empathize with... If you want to win... let's be smart about actually doing this."
• Ruben Gallego (68:26): "Honestly, I think if I have to say what the future is, it's the American dream. It's... what drove me... some really, really hard days."

Key Takeaways

For the Left

• Re-connect with the working class: Not just through policy, but through language, imagery, and candidate selection.
• Authentic tolerance: Build “messy” coalitions that accept disagreement on some social issues but remain firm on social and economic justice.
• Reclaim patriotism: Progressive policies can be reframed as deeply patriotic; the American dream is a unifying ideal.
• Balance ideology and pragmatism: Both the fight against oligarchy (structural inequality) and administrative reforms (fighting bureaucracy) matter.
• Strategic communication: Meet voters where they are—in language they use—especially on economics and cultural security.

For Democrats (and Political Practitioners)

• Winning isn’t optional: Without power, none of the progressive or inclusive policies are possible.
• Messaging is mission: Emotional resonance with working- and middle-class concerns is indispensable.
• Don’t shy away from uncomfortable conversations: Engage economic and cultural insecurity directly.

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-------------|---------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:15–09:45 | Sanders on party shifts, listening to labor, the disaster of “big money” | | 09:50–13:55 | Genuine working-class politics; open doors for candidates | | 14:18 | Sanders on “open borders” as a right-wing idea | | 18:58–23:42 | Oligarchy and authoritarianism—why fighting one means fighting both | | 25:58 | Sanders on policing: respect with reform | | 27:07–29:31 | Bureaucracy and the abundance debate | | 29:36–33:33 | Progressive patriotism and American narrative | | 39:40–45:31 | Gallego on Arizona win: listening to ground-level concerns | | 45:31–47:48 | “Big ass trucks” as symbol of prosperity and aspiration | | 49:33–51:09 | Abundance, monopoly power—pragmatic approach to both | | 55:05–61:32 | Gallego on immigration, consistency, and strategy | | 62:52–64:21 | The imperative to plan for (and win) power, Marine Corps thinking| | 65:19–68:26 | The American Dream as the nation's next story |

This summary distills the depth and nuance of two influential American politicians wrestling with the soul, strategy, and substance of left-leaning politics—providing a potent roadmap for those hoping to bridge divides, win back the working class, and redefine patriotism for a new era.