Podcast Summary: The Ezra Klein Show - "Why American Jews No Longer Understand One Another"

Introduction

In the July 23, 2025 episode of The Ezra Klein Show, hosted by Ezra Klein of New York Times Opinion, the conversation delves into the growing dissonance within the American Jewish community. The episode, titled "Why American Jews No Longer Understand One Another," explores the fracturing consensus that has historically unified American Jews, focusing on issues related to Zionism, anti-Semitism, and the evolving identity of Jewish Americans.

The Fraying Consensus in American Judaism

Ezra Klein opens the discussion by highlighting the breakdown of the longstanding consensus that once held American Jewry together. Traditionally, American Jews unified around several key tenets:

• Support for Israel: "This was the consensus roughly: what is good for Israel is good for the Jews" (00:00).
• Anti-Zionism as Anti-Semitism: The belief that opposing Zionism equates to anti-Semitism.
• Two-State Solution Optimism: The expectation of a future two-state solution reconciling Zionism with liberal values.

However, each component of this consensus has begun to crack, leading to a fragmented community with divergent views.

The Impact of Zoran Mamdani’s Mayoral Victory

A significant catalyst for this reckoning is Zoran Mamdani's triumph in New York City's Democratic primary for mayor. Mamdani's stance has polarized the Jewish community:

• Mamdani’s Position: He does not use traditional slogans like "globalizing the intifada" or "defada," yet he refrains from condemning these movements outright. Notably, he stated that if he were mayor, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu would face arrest on war crimes charges should he set foot in New York City (02:16).

• Deborah Lipstadt’s Exchange: During an interview on Good Day New York, Mamdani clarified his stance:

  • Host: "Do you support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state?" (02:54)
  • Mamdani: "I support Israel's right to exist as a state with equal rights. I believe that every state should have equality enshrined" (02:59-03:03).

This position has shocked many older Jews who view Israel as the indispensable refuge for Jewish people, while younger Jews are more receptive, fearing the consequences of an apartheid state and its impact on global anti-Jewish violence.

Generational Divides: Older vs. Younger Jews

The conversation underscores a generational split within the community:

• Older Jews: They are alarmed by Mamdani's rise, perceiving it as a threat to Israel’s role as a safe haven. "Israel to them is the world's only reliable refuge for the Jewish people" (03:03).

• Younger Jews: Many younger Jews support Mamdani, advocating for liberal values and expressing concerns over Israel's policies towards Palestinians. They fear that unchecked policies may lead to increased anti-Semitism and a redefinition of Jewish identity. "They fear what that has already done to the meaning of Jewishness" (03:52).

Rising Anti-Semitism and Its Complexities

The episode delves into the alarming rise in anti-Semitic incidents, exacerbated by the Israeli-Palestinian conflict:

• Incidents Highlighted:

  • Elon Musk's XAI Grok Incident: The AI model glorified Adolf Hitler, raising fears about technology's role in propagating hate (08:32).
  • Violent Attacks: Multiple attacks linked to pro-Palestinian sentiments, including the murder of two Israeli embassy employees in Washington and a deadly attack in Boulder, Colorado (08:32-10:20).

• Deborah Lipstadt’s Perspective: As President Biden's special envoy to combat anti-Semitism, Lipstadt emphasizes that anti-Semitism is an irrational prejudice unaffected by external actions. "Antisemitism is a prejudice. A prejudice can't be caused by something. It's irrational" (11:35).

• Daniel May’s Insights: May argues that anti-Zionist policies contribute directly to anti-Semitism by undermining Jewish security, stating, "the weekly reports of Israeli soldiers shooting on Palestinians... is a calamity for Jews. It's a spiritual crisis" (12:18-12:38).

Defining and Measuring Anti-Semitism

The episode discusses the challenges in defining and addressing anti-Semitism:

• Impact vs. Intent: Drawing parallels to Ibram X. Kendi's definition of anti-racism, Lipstadt asserts that the consequences of policies can be anti-Semitic regardless of intent. "A racist policy is any measure that produces or sustains racial inequity between racial groups... consequences" (12:13).

• Debate Over Israel’s Right to Exist: Lipstadt criticizes the question "Does Israel have the right to exist?" as outdated, emphasizing Israel's current strength and self-determination. She argues that the focus should shift to whether Israel's policies towards Palestinians are just and equitable (12:26-18:38).

The Role of American Liberalism and Zionism

Daniel May and other guests explore the intrinsic link between American liberal values and Zionism, and how conflicts arise when these ideals clash with Israel’s policies:

• Contradictions in Liberal Zionism: May points out the inherent contradictions in American liberal Zionism, where the pursuit of liberal values sometimes undermines the justification for Zionist policies (04:56).

• Rabbi Rachel Timoner’s Perspective: Timoner emphasizes the dual commitment to supporting Israel and advocating for Palestinian freedom, highlighting the moral and humanitarian dilemmas faced by American Jews (07:30-08:32).

Brad Lander on Jewish Safety and Identity

Brad Lander, New York City's comptroller, discusses his cross-endorsement of Mamdani and the implications for Jewish safety:

• Lander’s Stance: He acknowledges that while he doesn't believe Mamdani is anti-Semitic, he disapproves of rhetoric like "globalize the intifada," which he feels incites violence against Jews (18:54-19:13).

• Defense of Inclusive Democracy: Lander advocates for an inclusive, multiracial democracy as essential for Jewish flourishing, stating, "there is some resonance between Jewish flourishing and inclusive multiracial democracy" (21:14-22:26).

Future of American Jewish Identity

The episode concludes by contemplating the future of American Jewish identity in the face of rising internal divisions and external threats:

• Daniel May’s Reflection: May underscores the difficulty in reconciling Zionism with liberal values and the spiritual crisis it poses for American Jews (22:46-23:11).

• Rabbi Rachel Timoner’s Call for Dual Advocacy: Timoner urges the community to advocate for both Palestinian freedom and Jewish safety, emphasizing that true freedom cannot exclude another group (23:11-23:55).

Conclusion

"The Ezra Klein Show" episode "Why American Jews No Longer Understand One Another" offers a nuanced exploration of the internal and external challenges facing the American Jewish community. Through insightful discussions with Rabbi Rachel Timoner, Deborah Lipstadt, Daniel May, and Brad Lander, the episode highlights the complexities of maintaining Jewish identity and solidarity in a rapidly changing socio-political landscape. The conversation underscores the urgent need for dialogue and reconciliation within the community to address issues of anti-Semitism, Zionism, and the quest for a just and equitable future for all.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Host: "What is good for Israel is good for the Jews." (00:00)
• Rabbi Rachel Timoner: "Young Jews look at Gaza and say, everything I was taught in religious school tells me this is wrong." (01:54)
• Deborah Lipstadt: "Antisemitism is a prejudice. A prejudice can't be caused by something. It's irrational." (11:35)
• Brad Lander: "The world where like everybody gets a right wing ethnostate is not going to be good for the Jews, even if we get one." (21:06)
• Daniel May: "It's hard to overstate how much Zionism has done in American Jewish life." (22:46)

This structured summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions of the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who have not listened to it.