Would Bernie Have Won?

The Ezra Klein Show

•

Published: Tue Nov 26 2024

There are a lot of different opinions about how the Democratic Party should rebuild after the blow of Donald Trump’s victory. And for the next two episodes, we’re going to showcase two very different ones. Faiz Shakir was Bernie Sanders’s 2020 campaign manager, and he believes that Democrats need to embrace a Sanders-style class-first populism. This question of whether Sanders or a candidate like him could have beaten Trump loomed over Democratic post-mortems of the 2016 election, and they’ve reared up again this year, as Democrats have continued to lose working-class voters. As Sanders put it in a blistering statement: “It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working-class people would find that the working class has abandoned them.” But some Democrats have been frustrated with this criticism. President Biden has been arguably the most economically populist president of the modern era. And the Democrats who have been winning in redder part...

Summary

The Ezra Klein Show: "Would Bernie Have Won?" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: November 26, 2024

In the episode titled "Would Bernie Have Won?" hosted by Ezra Klein from New York Times Opinion, the conversation delves deep into the Democratic Party's trajectory post the 2024 elections. Featuring Faz Shakir, Bernie Sanders' 2020 campaign manager and a seasoned Democratic strategist, the episode explores the internal debates and strategic shifts necessary for the party to reconnect with its working-class base.

1. Introduction

[00:27] Ezra Klein:
Ezra introduces the episode by setting the stage for a critical analysis of the Democratic Party following its disappointing performance in the 2024 elections. He highlights Bernie Sanders' sharp critique, where Sanders states, "it should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them." This statement underscores the central theme of the discussion: the party's struggle to maintain its connection with the working class.

2. Background: The Democratic Party's Internal Struggles

[03:10] Faz Shakir:
Faz Shakir acknowledges the discomfort within the Democratic ranks regarding Bernie Sanders' outspoken critiques. He emphasizes the need for open dialogue instead of dismissing Sanders' concerns with “eye rolls.” Faz underscores that Bernie’s advisors are actively seeking roles that can help realign the party with its foundational working-class values.

[03:32] Ezra Klein:
Ezra expresses his observations about Bernie Sanders being the most prominent figure discussing the party's failures in the media. He notes Sanders' deep integration into the party, with many of his allies holding significant positions within the Biden administration, yet still feeling a sense of exclusion.

3. The Debate: Bernie Sanders vs. Democratic Establishment

[04:47] Faz Shakir:
Faz challenges Ezra's observations by pointing out the lack of visible support for Bernie Sanders from other high-profile Democrats during his campaign. He mentions that despite Biden’s administration's progressive economic policies, prominent figures like Kamala Harris were hesitant to publicly align with Sanders, indicating a fractured party stance.

[06:02] Ezra Klein:
Ezra seeks clarification on whether the debate centers solely around Bernie Sanders as an individual or the broader ideology he represents, termed “Bernieism.”

[06:12] Faz Shakir:
Faz elaborates that “Bernieism” embodies an economic-first approach that prioritizes working-class Americans in both policy and political strategy. He advocates for storytelling that highlights the struggles of the middle and working class, framing the economy as rigged against them and positioning the candidate as their champion.

4. The Role of Populism and Working-Class Orientation

[08:55] Ezra Klein:
Ezra assesses the Biden administration as the most economically left and populist in recent history, surpassing predecessors like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. Despite progressive policies focusing on labor and industrial growth, Biden's administration struggles with low approval ratings and persistent working-class discontent.

[10:05] Faz Shakir:
Faz attributes Biden's limited success to a disconnect between policy and political messaging. He argues that while the administration implements pro-worker policies—such as supporting unionization and fighting monopolies—the public perception remains muddled due to ineffective storytelling and communication strategies.

5. Case Studies: Sherrod Brown, Joe Manchin, and Dan Osborne

[11:59] Ezra Klein:
Ezra introduces Sherrod Brown's loss in Ohio to a Republican car dealer, questioning why a seasoned economic populist like Brown failed despite his strong alignment with “Bernieism.”

[12:34] Faz Shakir:
Faz identifies a "Democratic brand problem," suggesting that candidates like Sherrod Brown outperform more moderate figures like Kamala Harris but still fail to secure victories due to the party's inability to convincingly communicate their commitment to economic justice. He emphasizes that Democrats often fail to make working-class voters feel genuinely represented.

[12:58] Ezra Klein:
Ezra discusses Dan Osborne, an independent candidate who ran an economically populist campaign and significantly outperformed expectations, yet did not win. This example illustrates the challenges Democrats face in leveraging populist strategies within the party framework.

6. Media Strategies and the Communication Gap

[41:15] Faz Shakir:
Faz critiques the Democratic Party's reliance on traditional media and paid advertising, contrasting it with the right's utilization of diverse platforms like podcasts and social media to reach and engage voters directly. He highlights the importance of authentic communication and adapting to new media landscapes to effectively convey populist messages.

[49:04] Ezra Klein:
Ezra reflects on the shift from mainstream media to fragmented digital platforms, arguing that this transformation has led to a communication gap. He notes that while the right has effectively harnessed these new media forms to galvanize working-class support, the left remains dependent on outdated methods that fail to resonate with broader audiences.

7. The Future of the Democratic Party: Rebuilding and Reconnecting

[73:00] Faz Shakir:
Faz envisions a reconstituted Democratic Party that actively engages with communities through grassroots efforts rather than being solely a fundraising vehicle. He advocates for the party to stand alongside workers in their struggles, such as opposing unfair rate hikes or supporting union efforts, thereby rebuilding trust and relevance among the working class.

[75:32] Ezra Klein:
Ezra challenges Faz to consider the cultural dimensions of the Democratic Party's disconnect, questioning how the party can address both economic and cultural concerns to fully represent its diverse base.

[76:53] Ezra Klein:
In the final discussion, Ezra and Faz explore the necessity of class-based populism and whether the Democratic Party can authentically integrate such a strategy without alienating its existing coalition. Faz argues for the mathematical advantage of focusing on the working class, emphasizing that this demographic constitutes two-thirds of the workforce and is pivotal for electoral success.

8. Conclusion

[73:00] Faz Shakir:
Faz concludes by reiterating the importance of transitioning the Democratic Party from a closed club to an inclusive institution that actively serves and engages with communities. He calls for listening tours and grassroots involvement to better understand and address the needs and perceptions of working-class voters.

[77:41] Faz Shakir:
Before wrapping up, Faz recommends three books to the audience: "Tyranny of Merit" by Michael Sandel, "Leaders Eat Last" by Simon Sinek, and "Don't Get Above the Raisin" by Bill Malone. These works provide insights into justice philosophy, leadership ethics, and the intersection of culture and politics, respectively.

Notable Quotes:

Faz Shakir [04:03]: "Why didn't [Biden] work to make these policies resonate? Because the politics didn't match the policy."
Ezra Klein [08:55]: "Biden is without doubt... coming in with a blended view of the, you might say, Obama and Sanders theories of the economy."
Faz Shakir [12:58]: "It is a Democratic Party that doesn't fight for me. It is not affiliated with my economic thinking..."
Ezra Klein [22:43]: "Joe Manchin has personally killed a number of things I really cared about."
Faz Shakir [26:44]: "You're fighting for working class people is the thing... that's what you're after right now, that Bernie Sanders, better than more so and better than I would argue a lot of the people with whom he ran against would have put that question, that framework."
Ezra Klein [34:59]: "One person who's always been interesting in this conversation is Joe Manchin. And if you were looking a couple years ago, who was overperforming the most, who was holding the seat that Democrat really shouldn't be holding?"
Faz Shakir [47:07]: "Bernie didn't win the primary in 2016, he didn't win it in 2020. So he didn't have to run a general election campaign where he wasn't even just talking to Democrats."
Ezra Klein [57:15]: "Can you ignore that? That is insane. Anyone who thinks you could ignore that reality is crazy."

Key Takeaways:

Disconnection between Policy and Messaging: The Democratic Party's progressive policies often fail to resonate with working-class voters due to ineffective communication strategies that do not clearly articulate the party's vision and commitment.
Need for Authentic Populism: Faz Shakir advocates for a class-based populist approach that authentically represents and engages with the working class, emphasizing economic justice and community-focused policies.
Media Strategy Overhaul: The party must adapt to the evolving media landscape by leveraging diverse platforms to communicate directly with voters, moving beyond traditional paid media and becoming more grassroots-oriented.
Rebuilding the Democratic Brand: To regain trust and support, the Democratic Party needs to transform from a fundraising-centric institution to one that actively supports and stands with communities in their economic and social struggles.
Electoral Strategy: Focusing on the majority working-class demographic, which constitutes a significant portion of the electorate, is crucial for achieving electoral success and preventing further erosion of the party's base.

This episode serves as a critical reflection on the Democratic Party's challenges and presents strategic insights on how embracing authentic, class-based populism and revamping communication strategies can potentially realign the party with its foundational principles and voter base.