Escaping Scam City | 2 | The Fourth Floor

Summary

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The Fight of My Life

Season 2: Escaping Scam City | Episode 2: The Fourth Floor

Podcast by Cadence Productions | Released: May 25, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, “The Fourth Floor,” host Rich Thompson and his team retrace the harrowing journey of victims caught in Cambodia’s scam compounds. The story follows Micah and Ava, a couple tricked into working in a scam center, their struggle to survive and escape, and the broader context of forced criminality—where thousands are trafficked into criminal work against their will. The episode is built on first-person accounts, investigative visits to notorious buildings, and insights into the mechanics of these crime syndicates.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Scam Centers Operating in Plain Sight

• Cambodia as a Hub:
  Cambodian cities like Sihanoukville are home to scam compounds run by organized crime, notorious for operating openly above casinos.
• Rich’s Perspective:
  "Could I just get on a plane, walk into that casino and stand beneath the very place they were held…?" – Rich Thompson (00:35)
• The team decides to visit Cambodia to see these operations firsthand.

2. Unwitting Victims: The Flight to Cambodia

• Suspicious Recruitment:
  The team notes that their flight is filled mostly with young Pakistani men, possibly victims of trafficking being lured to bogus jobs.
  • Lydia observes: "It doesn't look like a plane full of Cambodians going home." (01:33)
• Initial Denial, Hidden Reality:
  On questioning, the recruits claim to be “students on holiday,” but later reveal plans to work in call centers—a common scam cover.
  • Carrie Anne: "It's like they've been told to say something." (02:55)
• Disturbing Arrival:
  On landing, the Pakistani men are corralled by officials, physically pushed through immigration, and loaded into a van—clear signs of organized trafficking.
  • Lydia's emotional reaction: "I really feel like weirdly emotional…knowing what they're probably walking into." (05:48)

3. The DV Casino: Visiting the Scene

• Physical Setting:
  The compound is described as a gaudy casino topped with a gold dome, hiding horror above glitz.
  • "A building maybe four or five stories high, topped by a bright gold painted dome.” (07:34)
• Micah’s Recollection:
  On arrival, Micah is treated kindly, fed, and almost convinced the job is real—until he recognizes the scam interface on his computer.
  • Micah: "Once I see one of the screen I saw them using like the telegram and then, oh my God. Yeah, it's real." (10:15)

4. Life and Despair Inside the Compounds

• Initial Hope, Rapid Disillusionment:
  Micah is reunited with Ava, who silently confirms the dire situation.
  • “I know, I know, I know. The eyes like this...So I already knew.” – Micah (11:12)
• Conditions:
  The room is packed, beds are just mats on the floor, windows are barred.
• Belief in Escape:
  Micah initially hopes escape is possible, but he underestimates the dangers.

5. The System of Forced Criminality

• Expert Insight: Jake Sims
  Introduces the concept of “forced criminality”—trafficked individuals coerced into illegal work.
  • Jake: “A forced criminal is anyone who has been trafficked into roles that are overtly criminal. …Never in history has there been a forced criminal industry like this one.” (14:19)
• The Carrot and the Stick:
  • Carrot:
    Bonuses and celebrations for high-value scams to incentivize participation.
    • Ava: "'Congratulations, Little Woo has scammed $1 million. Gong.'" (17:42)
  • Stick:
    Physical violence, torture, and threats for resistance.
    • Jake: “I certainly remember when I first saw this video of a man being tased inside a compound in Sihanoukville.” (18:47)

6. Brutal Punishments for Defiance

• Examples of Violence:
  • Vietnamese man who tries to warn a victim is beaten, left with broken limbs, and locked in the “dark room.” (23:01)
  • Two Thai workers who contacted their embassy are beaten with dumbbells—left paralyzed.
    • Ava: "They can't go to the bathroom or do anything by themselves and they're like a baby." (25:16)
  • "Them saying like, this is how you will be if you try to ask any authorities for help.” – Micah (25:58)

7. Risk and Desperation: Micah’s Gamble

• Hidden Phone:
  Micah hides a backup phone in the ceiling above the bathroom to secretly seek help. (26:44)
• Attempted Escape via NGO:
  • Finds an informal group that helps scam victims. Shares evidence at huge personal risk.
  • "I said that I really been cheated, come to here and I really want to get out." – Micah (34:22)
  • The group requests proof: photos, videos, passport ID. Micah knows the risk:
    • "I know once you send the photo passport you will be in danger… the boss might know about you." (35:05)

8. Momentary Hope, Crushing Betrayal

• Response Arrives:
  NGO says rescue may come in “one or two weeks.” Micah is hopeful but keeps the news from Ava for her safety. (37:17)
• Exposure:
  The boss confronts Micah with screenshots of his appeal for help, including his passport and photos.
  • "He shows Micah screenshots... It's all there... his plea for help." (38:33)
  • Micah: “And then he said, you don’t try to lie about to me. I got all of the information... My heart stopped for a moment.” (39:20-39:22)

9. The Reality of (Non) Intervention

• Why So Little Help?
  Despite NGOs and reports, scam compounds run openly, and victims are largely unaided—especially in the early days of this criminal phenomenon.
  • Jake: “If you were trapped in a compound and wanted to get out, you were more or less on your own.” (32:11)
• Complicity & Complexity:
  Episode hints at local corruption and the sheer logistical challenge of intervention, issues to be explored in later episodes.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Rich Thompson on the reality of forced labor:
  “It was weird. Like, they were met at the right as we landed... and they've immediately bunched them together.” (04:11–04:25)

• Lydia Bowden expressing helplessness:
  "I wish there was some way we could have warned them, but that could have been quite a dangerous move." (06:09)

• Ava on the price of freedom:
  “If you want to leave, you have to pay up. 130,000 Baht.” (16:16)

• Ava on her breaking point:
  “They used a dumbbell to hit these people. …they were paralyzed.” (25:16)

• Micah’s determination:
  “I really need to ask for help. Even I've been beaten. Even a dead.” (26:23)

• Micah risking everything to escape:
  “Like someone need to kill you and then you need to be like hiding and then that feel for me at that moment.” (36:49)

• The moment of betrayal:
  "He shows Micah screenshots… his plea for help. …My heart stopped for a moment." (38:33–39:22)

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Notable Segment Timestamps

• Scam Center Flight and Arrival: 01:33–06:09
• Entry to DV Casino and Realization: 08:16–10:27
• First Night and Realization of True Danger: 11:49–12:01
• Forced Criminality Explanation (Jake Sims): 13:13–16:16
• Violence as Punishment: 23:01–26:07
• Micah’s Hidden Phone and Escape Attempt: 26:44–37:27
• Confrontation and Exposure: 38:12–39:22
• Reflections on NGO role: 31:26–32:11

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Episode Tone & Language

The episode is raw, emotionally charged, and investigative. The language balances compassion for the victims with clarity about the criminal operation. Candid, sometimes halting translations and real emotional reactions from the survivors punctuate the clinical observations of hosts and experts, giving listeners an unvarnished view of horror and hope.

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This episode powerfully illustrates the mechanics and horror of Southeast Asia’s scam compounds—how they lure, trap, and terrorize thousands, and how escape is fraught with risk, betrayal, and uncertain hope. The story of Micah and Ava is both singularly gripping and distressingly universal.

Transcript

[Rich Thompson]

Cadence Productions.

[Micah]

Unheard.

[Rich Thompson]

Before we begin, a quick warning. This particular episode contains descriptions of violence. Listener discretion is advised. One of the most bizarre things about this whole story is that apparently these scam centres, which are mostly run by Chinese organised crime groups, operate right out in the open all throughout Cambodia. I'd been told that in places like Sianikville, where Micah and Eva were taken, you could find them hiding in plain sight. Now, Micah said they were trapped on the fourth floor of a building right on one of the main streets above a bustling casino. And it's apparently all still running today. Could that really be true? Could I just get on a plane, walk into that casino and stand beneath the very place they were held, where people are reportedly still being held? Jake, is that for real?

[Jake Sims]

Yes, absolutely.

[Rich Thompson]

So in May of 2024, that's exactly what we did. Traveling first to Thailand to spend some time with Micah and Ava. We then boarded a flight to Cambodia. As we settled into our seats, we couldn't help but notice something strange.

[Lydia Bowden]

It doesn't look like a plane full of Cambodians going home.

[Rich Thompson]

Strangely, the majority of the passengers on the plane were Pakistani men. I guess that may not have raised an eyebrow had we not just read of Pakistan being listed as one of the countries the scamming centres in Cambodia were recruiting from. Could it be that we were sharing an aircraft with unwitting victims of trafficking with men who were in the actual process of being tricked into becoming future scammers? My colleague Carrie Anne, who was in the row ahead of me, began talking to the man sitting beside her. Amir.

[Lydia Bowden]

All Pakistan.

[Rich Thompson]

All pal.

[Lydia Bowden]

Pakistan. Where in Pakistan?

[Micah]

Islamabad.

[Lydia Bowden]

Okay.

[Rich Thompson]

That's not his real name, by the way. We're using a pseudonym to protect his identity. Amir was young, maybe in his mid-20s. He said that he was travelling to Cambodia with friends and gestured to the men across the aisle. Kerrianne asked him, as you do, what they'd be doing in Cambodia. The answer seemed rehearsed. Here's Carrie Anne explaining the conversation to me afterwards when I asked him about.

[Lydia Bowden]

What you're doing here. It's like they've been told to say something.

[Rich Thompson]

They've been told to say they were students.

[Lydia Bowden]

They're students. And we're here for holiday for one.

[Rich Thompson]

Month, one month being the maximum stay allowed under a tourist visa. Of course, there was a good chance we were just being a bit paranoid, overthinking things, perhaps seeing red flags where there were none. But as Lydia said, I will be.

[Lydia Bowden]

Curious to see who meets them when we arrive.

[Rich Thompson]

And what we did see was one of the strangest things I've ever seen in all my travels. What you're about to hear is us trying to explain what we're witnessing. And remember this is all happening before we went through any immigration or custom checks. Literally right after we got off the plane. What are we seeing, Lydia?

[Lydia Bowden]

Yeah. So there's a group of about 30 Pakistani men. We just got off our flight and they're all being corralled together into a corner led by a man in an official uniform and they're being told to fill out various papers.

[Rich Thompson]

And it was weird. Like they were met at the right as we landed, right?

[Lydia Bowden]

That's right.

[Rich Thompson]

And the guy was. I saw he had a photo of one of the men. He was checking all the faces as well. Like Pakistan.

[Lydia Bowden]

Yeah. So it was. They were. Wait, they were expecting them.

[Rich Thompson]

They were expecting them, yeah. And they've immediately bunched them together.

[Lydia Bowden]

Look, that guy is pushing him, physically pushing him into a special life.

[Rich Thompson]

Oh, my gosh. Men in uniform physically shepherded the group of Pakistani men, almost pushing them through immigration with. One at a time. They're like literally being. They're being manhandled and like pushed into lines. That's sort of bizarre. At baggage claim, I managed to reconnect with Amir. Enjoy. Enjoy. Yeah, thank you.

[Lydia Bowden]

So nice to meet you.

[Rich Thompson]

She's safe. Interesting. He just said. I said, what are you doing here? He said, I've got a job. And I said, oh, where's your job? And he said, in a call centre. Remember they had told us on the aircraft that they were students on a one month holiday. Now they seemed comfortable enough to share that they were in fact coming for what they thought was a call centre job. As I watched the group of men walk away, I felt my stomach lurch. Was it possible that they were about to be the victim of a scam? So kind of horrible watching them walk away.

[Lydia Bowden]

Yeah, I, like, I really feel like weirdly emotional.

[Rich Thompson]

Yeah.

[Lydia Bowden]

Knowing what they're probably walking into.

[Rich Thompson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lydia Bowden]

And like they're all smiles on their face, hoping for a better.

[Rich Thompson]

I said, are you excited? He said, yes, very excited. I wish there was some way we could have warned them, but that could have been quite a dangerous move. And maybe we were misreading the whole situation. Or maybe they knew exactly what they were doing. But then again, maybe not. Before I was even consciously aware of the decision, I ran after the group and found them outside the terminal about to be loaded into a white van by what was very clearly a handler. I quickly gave Amir my number on WhatsApp. Message me if you ever need anything. I said. We'll return to Ymir in a future episode. For now, let's get back to the task at hand. Retracing Micah's steps In our last episode, Ava, who had arrived in Siennockville, first warned Micah it was all a trap, some kind of criminal enterprise. She told him not to come. And yet he still boarded that plane to Phnom Penh and still got in the car to Sianigville. The drive from Phnom Penh to Siannikville takes a little over two hours. Siennockville is on the ocean, and from the road the water looked to be a clear and sparkling turquoise. But instead of turning toward the beach, we turned in the opposite direction, towards a low skyline of grey cement block buildings. And then we arrived at our first stop. A building maybe four or five stories high, topped by a bright gold painted dome. An enormous Rolls Royce was parked out front. At the entrance, which was flanked by gold pillars, a sign welcomed us to DV Casino. A shiver went through my body. Do you remember the name of the place where you were first held?

[Micah]

DV Casino.

[Rich Thompson]

DV Casino.

[Micah]

DV Casino. Yeah. Open your eyes.

[Rich Thompson]

What can you see around From Unherd and Cadence Productions, this is season two of the fight of my life. Escaping Scam City. The story of love, real love, in a city built on faking it. This is the story of Micah and Ava, thrown into the fight of their lives and of those who have chosen to come alongside them and make it their fight too. Episode 2 the Fourth Floor well.

[Lydia Bowden]

DV.

[Rich Thompson]

Casino Day 2 Micah's introduction to DV Casino begins very differently from Avis. He is met, almost welcomed at the entrance by a Chinese boss and immediately escorted to the cafeteria for a meal. He is very friendly, and Micah begins to wonder whether Ava was mistaken about the job being a scam. Maybe her fears were all a big misunderstanding. After the meal, Micah follows the boss into the lift and up to the fourth floor. He hesitates for an instant when he is told to hand over his passport, but then obeys. And then the boss opens a door to a workroom filled with people, their heads bent over computers. This is the Vietnamese market, the boss explains, but Micah is no longer listening. Instead he's staring at the screen just in front of him.

[Micah]

Once I see one of the screen I saw them using like the telegram and then oh my God. Yeah, it's real. Fake scam having scam.

[Rich Thompson]

Ava was right. He thinks his body turns hot and then Cold. He takes a deep breath. He can't help Ava if he panics. He must stay calm. The boss opens another door. The Thai market, he announces. And there, at last, is Ava.

[Micah]

The people was teaching her how to war or something like that. Yeah.

[Rich Thompson]

So she was being trained.

[Micah]

Yeah, at that point, yeah.

[Rich Thompson]

And did you guys get to talk when you came in?

[Micah]

I was like, everything okay? He said, okay. Yeah. That's all.

[Lydia Bowden]

But could you tell that everything was not okay?

[Micah]

I know, I know, I know. The eyes like this. Yeah. Yeah. So I already knew. Yeah.

[Rich Thompson]

It's not until later that evening that Micah finally has a moment alone with Ava. They meet in the dim glow outside her sleeping quarters, their embrace urgent and fleeting. Ava's breath is shaky, her panic barely contained. But Micah holds her tight, his voice low and steady.

[Ava]

Just looked at me and he said, I understand. It's okay. Don't be scared. I'll get us out of here.

[Rich Thompson]

That night, Micah struggles to sleep. The room is small, suffocating, packed with five other men. The air is heavy. A single window, covered in thick, closely spaced bars remain locked shut. It feels like a jail cell. Were the beds comfortable?

[Micah]

No, no, no, no, no. Just like sleeping at the floor. Just feeling at that. Yeah, really.

[Rich Thompson]

But it's not the heat or the smell or the terrible bed that's keeping Micah awake. His mind is racing, running through plans for how to get himself and Ava out of the compound and back to Thailand. It shouldn't be too difficult, he thinks. He's sure he can find the right moment and get word to someone who can help. He just needs to be careful and smart. Lying in the dark, he believes escape is possible, but that's only because he still doesn't truly understand where he is. Not yet.

[Jake Sims]

There are hundreds of thousands of people working in scam compounds all over the region today. Most of these are in Cambodia, Myanmar, or Laos. But it's also true that the Philippines has a thriving industry. And this is a phenomenon that is growing in countries around the region and around the world. And some of these people are there voluntarily, but a huge portion are caught in what we call forced criminality.

[Rich Thompson]

Forced criminality. It's a term not many of us would have heard before, but it's the technical term used by the UN to describe people in Micah and Ava's situation. We'll talk about the criminality side in a future episode. The actual scams that people like Micah and Ava were made to operate. And, spoiler alert, it gets pretty wild. But for now, what do we mean by forced how do you force someone to be a criminal?

[Jake Sims]

A forced criminal is anyone who has been trafficked into roles that are overtly criminal. So it's similar in theory to labor trafficking. If you're coerced or deceived into a job, you are a labor trafficking victim. We don't consider criminal activities labor per se, and hence the term forced criminality. And as you said, it's not a term that many people are familiar with. But According to a 2019 UNODC report, 15% of all reported human trafficking victims globally were into criminal industries. And that was before the explosion of Southeast Asia's force scamming industry. And these folks include forced drug mules, drug cultivators for smugglers, forced illegal minors, and an array of other activities at the very bottom of the criminal value chain. But never in history has there been a forced criminal industry like this one.

[Rich Thompson]

Most people, when they reach the compounds and find out they've been tricked and it's in fact not their dream job, don't want to stay. They don't want to be scammers. They want to go home. And what's a scam boss supposed to do then? They've worked hard to build a labour force. Remember up to this point, they've already set up entire fake recruitment processes. They've conducted multiple rounds of job interviews. They've paid for plane tickets and hotel rooms. They've co opted the local authorities. That's thousands and thousands of dollars already spent per person. It's a big investment. So now that they've got their labor force in the compounds, they can't afford to have them run away or refuse to work. So how do they handle the problem? Well, in many cases they offer victims their freedom at a price.

[Ava]

And so I talked to the Thai person or the head of the Thai person and said, I want to go home. Is there any way we can go home? And he replied in crude Thai like what the heck do you think you're asking for? You think they're going to let you out so easy? If you want to leave, you have to pay up. 130,000 Baht.

[Rich Thompson]

130,000 Baht is about US$4,000. For AVA and most other people on the compounds, it might as well be a million. They simply can't afford it. Once a victim realizes that they can't buy their freedom, they often become desperate. They might refuse to work, they might try to escape. But scam bosses have developed a playbook to make sure neither thing comes to pass. Option A, the carrot. Scam bosses want their workers to be on board with scamming other people. It means workers will try harder, be better scammers, and make the bosses more money. So just like any other workplace, they offer incentives. Good workers are often given a percentage of the total amount they've managed to scam. And any successful scam is celebrated.

[Ava]

For example, my name is Little Woo. It'd be like, like, congratulations, Little Woo has scammed $1 million. Gong.

[Micah]

Yeah, after Gong, they will be like, open the song. Like Chinese New Year song.

[Ava]

It was played on the music on the speaker.

[Micah]

Gong silly woman. Gong silly. Something like.

[Rich Thompson]

The translation is essentially, we congratulate you. We congratulate you.

[Micah]

And then whole of the building will be listened.

[Rich Thompson]

As humans, I guess we're hardwired to respond to praise and approval. So sometimes these brainwashing tactics work, but for many people, they don't. And that's when the bosses move to option B, the stick. Here's Jake.

[Jake Sims]

In 2021, I was in Cambodia working for an organization leading the country's largest cross border counter labor trafficking program.

[Rich Thompson]

In other words, he'd seen some things in this space.

[Jake Sims]

Labor trafficking in Southeast Asia has always looked and felt a certain way. It's generally always been people from fragile countries like Cambodia going to the bigger markets like Thailand or Malaysia, where they're vulnerable to exploitation and lack protection under the rule of law. Labor trafficking to Cambodia was almost unheard of in labor trafficking circles at this point. Honestly, I had never even heard the term forced criminality before we started getting inundated with cases of it in 2021. I certainly remember though, when I first saw this video of a man being tased inside a compound in Sihanoukville, Cambodia. We were all wondering, what on earth was this? This wasn't the first time I'd seen violence inflicted on a person, but was bizarre was that this was happening in what looked like an office building.

[Rich Thompson]

If a boss can't persuade victims to work with a carrot, they make sure they're too afraid to resist by using the threat of the stick. Tasers, guns, barbed wire, dark rooms where people are locked up alone and tortured. These are all sticks scam bosses don't hesitate to use. Any attempts to run or ask for help are swiftly and brutally punished. Micah is about to learn this the hard way. DV Casino Day 16 Micah and Ava, along with at least 60 other workers are kept on the fourth floor of the DV building. Below them on the ground floor is the main casino, but they are never permitted to go down there. The door to get back to the elevator is always locked. Micah and Ava snatch whatever little time they can to spend together. A few minutes during the single break. They are allowed each day a few more minutes early in the morning or after midnight. But mostly their days are an endless cycle of work.

[Micah]

Keep walking like 6, 15, 60 hours and then going back to sleep and then tomorrow morning again, still walk the same thing, thinking, can we achieve the target or not? Yeah.

[Rich Thompson]

In the beginning, Micah has an easier time than Eva because of his strong English skills. The boss plans to make him a supervisor of a new division targeting English speaking victims. As a result, he is treated better than some of the other workers. And this helps Micah remain optimistic that he and Ava will be able to escape. But everything is monitored. Their messages to victims, their conversations with each other, even their contact with loved ones. They're told to keep their personal phones to keep up the appearance that everything is okay. But those phones are checked randomly and without warning. And the rules for what they could say were made painfully clear.

[Micah]

Before we sleep, we can use the phone to like telling our parents that we was safety, we was working very fine. And don't let any person know about your own location.

[Rich Thompson]

They are watched all the time by guards with guns. So they are armed. Are they walking around with weapons?

[Ava]

They have the shot, the tasers. Yeah.

[Micah]

I saw one of the supervisor, Chinese supervisor, he got a gun. Pistol. Yeah.

[Rich Thompson]

About a week after Micah arrives at dv, a Vietnamese man tries to warn a potential scam victim.

[Micah]

He was like using another employee computer to chat to. The victim said, please don't invest this website because it was a scam.

[Rich Thompson]

The man is beaten so badly that his arm and leg are broken. He's then brought into the workroom that Micah is in. He is bloody and bruised and his arm and leg hang limply. The men leave him on the floor as an example to others. And did they get a doctor in?

[Micah]

No. When all of the people then go away and then I try to.

[Ava]

So when everyone had left, tried to band aid him up. And then a Chinese person came over and told me that, you know, don't help this person, just let them try to survive on their own.

[Rich Thompson]

The man is then carried to the punishment room, known as the dark room.

[Micah]

So he locked up at the dark room until five days. Five days, I think five days. And he been sold to another company, which I don't know, to her.

[Rich Thompson]

Micah begins to understand the reality of the situation. Stepping out of line is a very dangerous thing to do. If he's going to try and ask for help. He'll need to be very careful. And less than a week later, that realisation is taken to the next level. One night there is a noisy commotion outside their rooms and someone is shouting. Eva recognizes the voice of the Thai supervisor with the tattoos. And then the other voices, also in Thai, pleading, crying and then screaming. Two of the Thai workers have contacted their embassy and asked for help. And now the boss has found out.

[Ava]

They used a dumbbell to hit these people. Basically these two people were hit and injured until they were paralyzed. They can't go to the bathroom or do anything by themselves and they're like a baby.

[Rich Thompson]

After the beating, the supervisor summons the other workers from their rooms to come out and see. Micah looks at the bodies and wishes that he hadn't the eyes.

[Micah]

Like a. Like a goldfish? Yeah, like a goldfish. And then. Yeah, yeah.

[Ava]

She said the lips were basically all torn.

[Micah]

Them saying like, this is how you will be enough if you try to ask any authorities for help. Yeah.

[Rich Thompson]

And yet Micah is unwilling to play their game. So you have seen multiple times people getting beaten for trying to ask for help, and yet you still then asked for help.

[Micah]

I really don't want to work with them. That was my mind tell me that I really need to ask for help. Even I've been beaten. Even a dead.

[Rich Thompson]

A plan begins to form. Micah has two phones on him. Carrying a backup phone is something he's always done whenever traveling overseas. But the bosses only know about one. Micah makes the decision to hide the other phone. He puts the phone in the ceiling space above the toilet. It's the only place with even a little bit of privacy and a place the guards are very unlikely to search. Now he must wait for the right moment to use it on Google. DV Casino Siennockville has 4.4 stars from 65 reviews. Here are what some of the people have to say.

[Ava]

Very good place to play poker.

[Micah]

This is the most fun casino in Cambodia.

[Rich Thompson]

Amazing place with wonderful service. When I saw all this online, I couldn't believe it. People are reviewing the food and the service, but nobody mentions even once that this is a known scam centre. I had to check it out for.

[Micah]

Myself to get that license.

[Rich Thompson]

Yes. DV 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 6. I walked into DV with Mek Dara, a Cambodian journalist who has reported extensively on the issue of scamming. Security guards stopped us at the casino's main door. Though they had guns, they were friendly and allowed us in without any trouble. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so the floor was Covered in a red and gold floral carpet. Enormous chandeliers hung from the ceiling, and gold and glass pillars were spaced throughout the room. If you Google tv, you can see all this too. Could this really be the place where Micah and Ava had been trapped? Was I actually inside a scam centre? Mostly. Nothing at DV looked out of the ordinary. Sure, it was a little dated, but otherwise I could have been inside any casino. Dara asked me where Micah was held.

[Micah]

Which floor that he keep them from.

[Rich Thompson]

Okay. Then he made his way to the elevator. No, no worries.

[Micah]

Just cool to see.

[Rich Thompson]

Dara stepped into the elevator and I watched the numbers climb to four. My stomach tightened as I wondered what might meet Dara up there. While we waited, I pretended to be interested in the nearby slot machines. We're playing.

[Micah]

We're playing.

[Rich Thompson]

Lucky Fortune just took my money. At last, Dara came back.

[Micah]

It's just like every door lock.

[Rich Thompson]

Is there someone guarding your door?

[Micah]

No, no, no. So there is a, like they said in one day closing, like nobody outside. Go in, you go inside. 100. Fine.

[Rich Thompson]

Oh, wow. Because he said that that door locked from both sides front you. And he said there was a secret knock. So you've seen that door. And then a few minutes later, we watched as workers pushed a luggage cart stacked with pallets and pallets and pallets of water bottles into the elevator. We watched as the cart went up to the fourth floor, where the elevator stopped for. For some time before then returning to the casino level. Empty.

[Micah]

500.

[Rich Thompson]

500 pallets. That's a lot of water. Something's happening up there. Yeah. Still, this could mean anything, right? But the problem is there are to this day, reports being made of people trapped on the fourth floor of this building. This is one of maybe upwards of a hundred known buildings in this city alone. You're probably asking the same question as me. If force scamming is such a huge problem, then where is everyone? These scam compounds are running right out in the open. So where's the government? Where are the NGOs? Jake, help us out here.

[Jake Sims]

Those are incredibly complicated questions.

[Rich Thompson]

I'm beginning to learn that everything related to forced scamming is incredibly complicated. We'll talk about the role of governments in a later episode, but for now, let's focus on NGOs.

[Jake Sims]

Well, first off, there are tons of counter trafficking organizations operating in Cambodia. Tons. But for a number of reasons, this has been a very hard space for NGOs to engage effectively in the country. And that's today, back in 2021, early 2022. When this was all starting to emerge, this was entirely uncharted territory and the international community was caught completely on the back foot.

[Rich Thompson]

Just a note. Remember this is when Micah and Ava were trapped.

[Jake Sims]

If you were trapped in a compound and wanted to get out, you were more or less on your own.

[Rich Thompson]

DV Casino Day 42. It's been over a month in DV and Micah is becoming desperate. He knows his hope of getting out is through the hidden phone, but it's not easy to even access it. The workers are required to be in front of their computers by 8am every morning and they work until midnight every night. They get a short break at 11 and another at 5, but otherwise may not leave their desks without permission. Whenever he can, Micah asks to go to the bathroom. In those moments he has to move quickly. He takes the phone down from the ceiling, hoping that nobody will come in suddenly and hear the low chime as it powers on. He googles frantically looking for leads on someone, anyone who might be able to help him. The obvious first step is to call the police or an embassy. But that's what the time end did and it didn't end well for them. He remembers what Ava told him when she first arrived. I think the police might be in on it. No, he can't risk going to the government. But then who? There are hundreds of human rights organisations in Cambodia, but on the Internet at least, none of them seem to know anything about scam compounds. He rarely has more than a few minutes to search before he has to turn the phone off, hide it again, flush the toilet and hurry back to work. But one day he finds something. A small informal group whose members have posted online about helping a few Chinese nationals escape the compounds. It's a long shot.

[Micah]

I knew help is really the chance of success is very low.

[Rich Thompson]

But he has to try. He sends a hasty message.

[Micah]

I said that I really been cheated come to here and I really want to get out.

[Rich Thompson]

Micah turns off the phone and puts it back in the ceiling, then leaves the stall. He washes his hands and steadies himself. He doesn't want anyone to notice anything unusual. The next time he manages to access the phone, there's a new message.

[Micah]

He said, you hot nationality. He said, can you send your photo of your passport?

[Rich Thompson]

Micah doesn't have a physical copy of his passport anymore, but he does have a photo. He can use it, but he knows the risk he's about to take.

[Micah]

Because I know once you send the photo passport you will be in danger because the reality that you been exposed what you your information and then the boss might be know about you.

[Rich Thompson]

The group also asks for more evidence of where Micah is held. Descriptions of the workplace, descriptions of the bosses, photos, videos. Getting all this will take time. More time than Micah is likely to have during the ordinary workday. His best opportunity will be to go to the bathroom during the weekly team meeting. The boss should be distracted. Then he hopefully will not notice Micah's absence.

[Micah]

I worry about like the boss will be asking me that why you going to toilet like and Huai Xiaolong. If they know, I think will be like beat me and then like electric card and then how do I say the dark room. Yeah, and then I will be like sold to the another compound. Because I reveal the location of scam compound.

[Rich Thompson]

Micah is afraid. But he doesn't turn back. He takes pictures and videos of the workroom, then hides the phone again. Later that night, while everyone is sleeping, he retrieves the phone, organizes his message and and sends it to the group. So tell me a little bit more how you were feeling in that moment.

[Micah]

Yeah, you know, like someone like need to kill you and then you need to be like hiding and then that feel for me at that moment.

[Rich Thompson]

The next day, the bathroom seems crowded. Anytime Micah asks to go, he cannot risk opening the ceiling tiles while other people are around. He's not able to access the phone again for two long days. And when at last he does one.

[Micah]

New message, he said, around like one week or two weeks, they will be come to help me.

[Rich Thompson]

At first, Micah cannot believe it. He reads the message again and then again before it sinks in. At last, some good news. For the first time in a long time, he feels a flicker of hope. Something in Micah tells him to keep this to himself for now. If things go wrong, he doesn't want Ava caught in the fallout. Better she stays out of it. A few days later, that instinct proves dead on. Micah is alone in the laundry room washing his clothes when the boss comes looking for him.

[Micah]

He talking to me privately. Did you ask for help?

[Rich Thompson]

Micah freezes. Could the boss have found his secret phone?

[Micah]

For my mind, I mean, like, wow, oh my God, not me. And then I said no.

[Rich Thompson]

But the boss holds out his own phone. And he shows Micah screenshots of the chat history between Micah and the group. It's all there. His passport photo, the videos he took of the workroom, his plea for help.

[Micah]

And then he said, you don't try to lie about to me. I got all of the information that you've been taught to the person that you asking for help. He said he got the chat history, the screenshot for all. Is that your photo of your passport? Yeah. And then my heart just like the thing, like.

[Ava]

My heart stopped for a moment.

[Micah]

Oh, my God. That's me. Yeah. Die.

[Rich Thompson]

The fight of my life is brought to you by Cadence Productions in partnership with Unherd. This series Escaping Scam City was written by Kavya Visvanathan, Nikki, Florence Thompson, and me. Your host, Rich Thompson. The series producers are Lydia Bowden, Jake Sims, Ben Field, Carrie Anne Tilson, Kavya Visvanathan and Rich Thompson. Our theme song is See Me Fly by Rosa. Our incredible translator is Corinne Powell. Thank you so much, Corinne. Additional sound design by Brendan Ridley. Unherd's advocacy and support for this project was led by Lydia Bowden, Carrie Ann Tilson and Laura Entwistle, with a massive thanks to their generous community of supporters and with a special shout out to Wen, Dane and Val. We're so grateful for all the various contributors to this series. And of course, any views and opinions expressed by individuals are their own. This series is based on the true story of Micah and Ava, whose names have been changed to protect their identities. Every effort has been made to preserve the integrity of their experiences. In some cases, events have been edited, condensed or reordered for clarity, safety, or narrative flow. While we've worked hard to verify details, as with all first hand testimonies, some elements can be difficult to independently confirm. We are so thankful to Micah and Ava for telling their story and elevating this issue on behalf of countless other survivors. And finally, we're thankful to you for choosing to come on this journey with us. If you get a second to rate and review the podcast, we'd really appreciate it. We'll see you on the next episode.

[Ava]

Well.