Ep. 866 - Kill Bill: The Whole Bloody Affair (GUEST: Matt Goldberg)

Summary

THE FILMCAST – EP. 866 SUMMARY
KILL BILL: THE WHOLE BLOODY AFFAIR (GUEST: MATT GOLDBERG)
March 17, 2026

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

This week, hosts David Chen and Devindra Hardawar welcome Matt Goldberg (freelance film critic, Decoding Everything) to fill in for Jeff Cannata and tackle a topic two decades in the making: Quentin Tarantino’s Kill Bill: The Whole Bloody Affair, newly released on VOD in the U.S. Besides this long-awaited review, the episode covers major film industry news (Universal’s theatrical window decision), reactions to the 2026 Oscars (broadcast glitches and the winners), weekly watches, and, finally, a deep dive into the definitive cut of Kill Bill—including a discussion of that divisive Fortnite-animated post-credits scene.

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KEY TOPICS & DISCUSSION POINTS

1. Film News: Universal’s Extended Theatrical Window

[02:00–07:25]

• Context: Universal announced that, come 2027, its films will have at least a 45-day exclusive theatrical window; focus features stay at 17 days.
• Devindra: Applauds the move: “It is wild to see, like, how quick the VOD window has been ... keep movies in theaters. People love to see movies when they’re there later.” [03:41]
• Matt: Argues short windows are “ultimately robbing yourself” of box office: “People are fine to wait it out ... your subscription numbers are going to be stagnant, whereas you are cutting off your box office revenue.” [04:00]
• David: Calls it a “wonderful move,” noting the wider cultural impact: “So this is a wonderful move and shows...there’s at least going to be one company making good movies and putting them out in theaters.” [04:30]
• All agree: Treating movies as events with long theatrical runs creates lasting moviegoing memories and encourages deeper cultural conversations.

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2. Oscars 2026: Broadcast & Ceremony Reactions

[07:31–26:21]

Broadcast Experience

• Technical problems abounded: Audio glitches, mics cutting out, streaming platform confusion in the U.S. (Disney+/Hulu shuffle).
• Devindra: Vents about the streaming issues, calling the “insertification of tech mess” a disaster. “You have to launch the Hulu app ... then you may watch the Oscars on Hulu.” [08:20]
• David: Notes persistent sound issues: “There were many times that the mics cut out ... I find it hard to hear people, no matter how high I cranked up the volume.” [10:15]
• Comic relief: Conan O’Brien’s hosting style praised: “Just horrible, cringeworthy jokes that were nonetheless awesome. That is classic Conan.” [11:43, Matt]
• Devindra: Deep nostalgia: “It feels like the bits on Conan’s show that never quite worked. He loves to linger in that space.” [15:17]
• Critique: Extended comedy and Avengers-esque bits (“pretty rough”), which ate into time for heartfelt speeches. “Let’s scale back on these extended bits ...” [16:38, Matt]

Notable Quotes

• “He is not afraid to look like a fool and make the audience uncomfortable.” –David [12:16]
• On Timothée Chalamet jokes: “The punching bag of the night ... that was pretty brutal.” –David/Devindra [12:41]

In Memoriam Segment

• Handled with more gravitas—extended eulogies and focus on 2025’s significant losses.
• “The sheer tonnage of Hollywood legends and talent we lost in 2025 is just staggering.” –David [13:04]

Oscars as a Changing Institution

• Concerns about ABC’s loss of rights, show moving to YouTube, and Warners’ acquisition: “It feels like the old way of doing things is going away ... turning point for the industry.” –David [28:40]
• Matt counters with optimism: “...more international winners, more nominees ... the rest of the world, especially as the cost of technology comes down ...” [30:45]

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3. Oscars 2026: The Winners

[17:37–32:14]

• Best Picture: One Battle After Another (6 Oscars); Paul Thomas Anderson wins Best Director (his first win); major acting awards spread across “Sinners,” “Hamnet,” “Weapons,” and more.
• Newly added Best Casting category (Cassandra Kulakundis for One Battle After Another).
• Korean pop wins: K Pop Demon Hunters bags Best Animated Feature and first K-pop song Oscar.

Panel Reactions

• Delight at surprises (e.g., “Sinners” winning Best Cinematography for first woman/Filipina/Black woman, Andrault Arkapau).
• Controversy: Sean Penn’s win for Supporting Actor decried as dull/predictable. “It’s just ... he has a habit of winning an Oscar over more interesting competitors.” –Matt [20:33]
• Disappointment in the lack of overt political statements from winners/speeches, especially considering global strife. “...any moment you can to wake people up to this fact ... the world is on fire ... it is worth acknowledging that as much as possible.” –Devindra [24:29]
• Praise for Amy Madigan’s (Weapons) horror villain win (“You create an iconic horror villain, you get that Oscar.” –Matt [27:11]), and general accolades for horror recognition.
• Reflection: The win for Paul Thomas Anderson seen as overdue acknowledgment. “[PTA] does deserve to win. ... He didn’t win for There Will Be Blood ... probably an injustice.” –David [27:49]

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4. What We’ve Been Watching

[34:30–58:43]

David

• Louis Theroux: Inside the Manosphere (Netflix):
  • Good primer if unfamiliar; disturbing to witness manosphere figures’ pull on young men.
  • “By far the most disturbing part ... is when Louis Theroux goes out with these Manosphere guys into public and they are constantly swarmed by young boys ...” [37:34]
• Neighbors (HBO):
  • Docuseries about feuding neighbors, “America is a cacophonous place ... homeownership is basically cooking people’s brains.” [53:48]
  • Matt: Reminds not all of America is like this—there is neighborly support and protest, too.

Devindra

• Scrubs Reboot (Hulu/Disney+):
  • Feels true to the original, “a warm blanket.” Praises positive masculinity.
  • “The reboot feels like old Scrubs ... it makes me want to go back and rewatch.” [38:22]
• Father, Mother, Sister, Brother (Criterion):
  • Latest Jim Jarmusch, about complicated adult family relationships. “Slightly off-kilter conversations ... quiet, situational comedy slowly emerges.” [54:34]
• Blades of the Guardians (Yuen Woo-ping’s new film):
  • Martial arts epic, “does kick butt ... some great choreography,” though not at the level of Matrix/Crouching Tiger. [57:36]

Matt

• Oscars Rewatch Project:
  • Rewatched early Best Picture winners.
  • Reflections: Early Oscar picks often serve Hollywood myth-building; some classics (“All Quiet on the Western Front”), some duds (“Cimarron”). “The Oscars are telling us: Hollywood telling a story about itself.” [41:46]
• A Man for All Seasons (Columbia Classics set):
  • Strong recommendation for this 1960s winner as one that stands out revisiting the canon.

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5. Weekly Plugs

[58:43–62:28]

• Podcast, Reviews, and Coverage
  • Matt: Early review of Project Hail Mary at Decoding Everything newsletter and Letterboxd interview for Testament Criterion release.
  • Devindra: Engadget’s MacBook Neo review and podcast.
  • David: Decoding Everything newsletter and (teaser) weekly plug joke—“Why can’t Quentin Tarantino go on an airplane?” (The punchline: “Because when the pilot mentions 30,000ft, he goes absolutely crazy.”) [63:14]

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6. FEATURED REVIEW: KILL BILL – THE WHOLE BLOODY AFFAIR

Context & Background

[63:00–67:36]

• After decades of rumors and limited LA/New Beverly screenings, Lionsgate releases Tarantino’s intended combined cut of Kill Bill Vol. 1 & 2—a 4+ hour version with restored/alternate scenes.
• Key Differences Highlighted:
  • Omitted opening Klingon quote, replaced with Kenji Fukasaku dedication
  • Extended O-Ren anime backstory; full-color House of Blue Leaves; new and changed music cues
  • Removal of Vol. 1’s “BB is alive” cliffhanger, giving greater punch to the film’s climax
  • Shorter in-movie intermission; cut the previously-used narrative catch-up for Vol. 2
  • Post-credits “Fortnite” animated Yuki’s Revenge short (see below)

Roundtable Impressions

[69:58–90:28]

• Matt Goldberg:
  • “I was really overwhelmed by it. In a good way. ... The best is removing the cliffhanger that her daughter is alive. ... If you watch it as a complete narrative, that moment ... when the bride is about to kill Bill, that is mind blowing. It completely changes the complexion of the film.” [69:58]
• Devindra Hardawar:
  • “These are, this is one of the best films ever made ... one of the best action sequences ever made.” [73:12]
  • Uma Thurman’s performance called out as “generationally good ... not only doing the physical work but the dramatic work. ... It makes me sad that we were not in a place as a society and certainly not the Academy to recognize what a tremendous performance this was.” [76:08]
  • The House of Blue Leaves compared to John Wick, the Raids—unique blend of choreography, tone, and storytelling.
• David Chen:
  • “I was completely blown away. ... I think this is one of the greatest films of all time. It needs to be watched, it needs to be studied ... Uma Thurman is incredible ... a convincing emotional and physical performance … the ambition, the scope, the scale—astonishing.” [77:37]
  • On the structure: “Each chapter is kind of its mini play, its mini story, its mini genre pastiche ... it's a tour of his [Tarantino’s] mind palace.” [81:36]
• All: Praise for the technical craft, loving cinema references, and genre-blending; note that watching as a single, cohesive piece clarifies and elevates Tarantino’s vision.

Discussion of Changes

• Opening Dedication:
  “He’s an older man now ... why does it make sense to throw Klingon proverbs in there anymore? ... I'm gonna like dedicate this to one of my heroes instead.” –David [85:39]
• House of Blue Leaves in Color:
  “Glad that has been undone ... now looks cool ... was always a compromise for the rating, not his original vision.” –David [86:35]
• Removal of Cliffhanger:
  The whole panel praises the effect: “It does work differently ... that's probably a smart move ... for somebody new coming in, it does hit harder.” –Devindra [72:43]
• Julie Dreyfus’ second arm:
  Adds a “layer of cruelty to the bride’s actions.” –David [88:04]
• Less music during fight scenes:
  “Letting the sound design take over ... you appreciate, I think, the work on the screen a lot more.” –David [89:51]

The Fortnite “Yuki’s Revenge” Post-Credits Short

[91:04–98:50]

• Description: Animated in Fortnite/Unreal Engine, tells the story of Gogo Yubari’s sister seeking revenge; includes Fortnite “guest” characters and game-ified death sequences.
• Reaction:
  • Devindra: Refused to watch. “Do not ruin this moment. ... Slop. No, thank you.” [91:17]
  • David: “If it was an actual artistic piece using Fortnite animation, I’d have been okay. ... Instead, it feels clearly a Fortnite advertisement ... it doesn’t feel like Kill Bill.” [94:57]
  • Matt: Calls it advertorial, serving only to pay for the new print. “It is garbage.” [95:08]
  • Consensus: Disliked, unnecessary, not in keeping with film’s spirit, tacked on for financial reasons.

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7. Favorite/Notable Scenes & Moments

[101:07–111:54]

• Vivica Fox & the intro fight: Elegant, rapid, economically delivered storytelling. [101:07]
• Sonny Chiba/Hattori Hanzo: Standout supporting turn; comic and heartfelt.
• Michael Madsen’s Bud: Pathos and fatalism in a “retired gunslinger”; tragic acceptance.
• Beatrix Kiddo/Bill confrontation: Subverts expectations—emotional showdown, not action-packed duel. “What Tarantino popularized ... the Mexican standoff—in this movie, it's emotion. Emotional truth pointed at each other.” –Devindra [110:57]
• El Driver as Beatrix’s “dark mirror.” [104:53]

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MEMORABLE QUOTES

• “People are fine to wait it out ... whereas you are cutting off your box office revenue.” –Matt [04:00]
• “You had a good thing. Yes, your business. You had to mess it up.” –Devindra [05:52]
• “He is not afraid to look like a fool and make the audience uncomfortable.” –David [12:16]
• “Uma Thurman ... should have—it deserves something. ... It makes me sad that this was such a great moment for Uma Thurman. We were just not ... in a place to recognize it.” –Devindra [76:19]
• “This is one of the greatest films of all time. It needs to be watched, it needs to be studied.” –David [77:37]
• On the Fortnite short: “It's not a real scene ... congratulations on getting the money ... if that's the cost, so be it. But I don't have to be like, ooh, Fortnite is cool now.” –Matt [95:52]
• “We need to bring back the notion of selling out as a bad thing ... we need to bring back the shame to selling out.” –David [99:48]

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TIMESTAMPS FOR IMPORTANT SEGMENTS

• [02:00] Universal’s theatrical window move
• [07:31] Oscars 2026 broadcast review
• [13:04] In Memoriam segment
• [17:37] Oscars winners: Surprises, disappointments
• [34:30] What We’ve Been Watching: Inside the Manosphere, Scrubs Reboot
• [49:11] HBO’s Neighbors docuseries
• [54:34] Jim Jarmusch’s Father, Mother, Sister, Brother
• [69:58] Kill Bill: The Whole Bloody Affair review begins
• [91:04] The Fortnite “Yuki’s Revenge” post-credits short

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FINAL THOUGHTS

A jam-packed, energetic episode blending sharp industry insight, fan nostalgia, and robust critique. The hosts celebrate finally seeing Kill Bill as intended and explore its evolution in both form and cultural context—while also expressing collective skepticism about cynical corporate cross-promotion (RIP, Fortnite short!). The show remains a love letter to cinema and lively film debate.

Next week: Project Hail Mary review.

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Transcript

[Matt Goldberg]

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[Devindra Hardawar]

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[Matt Goldberg]

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[David Chen]

Hello everyone and welcome to the Film Cast, a podcast about movies. I'm David Chen and I've been waiting 23 years for this episode of the podcast. Joining me today is Devindra Hardawar.

[Devindra Hardawar]

If any of you sons of bitches got anything else to say, leave me a message on Slack. My door is always open.

[David Chen]

And joining us today, he is a freelance film critic and also one of my favorite collaborators over at the Decoding Everything newsletter, Matt Goldberg.

[Matt Goldberg]

And I hope that fortnite scenes are added to every movie.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Good God, yes.

[David Chen]

Ye. Those are all vague and oblique references to the fact that today on the podcast we're going to be reviewing Kill Bill the Whole Bloody Affair. Jeff Kanata is out this week. He is on vacation with his family. We hope he's having a lovely, restful, relaxing, refreshing time. We're so grateful to have Matt Goldberg here to fill in. And fill in he must, because there's a lot of stuff that we got to discuss today. We got some film news to talk about. The Oscars happened this last weekend, so we're going to be talking about the broadcast as well as what we thought of the winners and then some what we've been watching in weekly plugs before we get to our review of Kill Bill the Whole Bloody Affair, which by the way is available right now in the US on video on demand. I was able to watch it in Portugal. It just came out in theaters in Portugal, so it's like a few months behind, but was thrilled be able to catch it in theaters with full intermission and everything. So had a great time checking the movie out and hope you will look forward to our conversation about that movie. Before we get to Oscar stuff, guys, let's talk about this big piece of film news that [e-mail] last week. Universal to Extend Exclusive Theatrical Window for pics to 45 days in 2027 according to the story, Universal will be extending the exclusive theatrical window for its 2027 movie releases to 45 days, seven weekends. Deadline has confirmed this theatrical window will not extend to Universal's Focus feature titles which will remain around 17 days. Side note, I think that's probably the right move there anyway. Universal's playing movies at five weekends exclusively is not news. The studio already has been doing this for some time. On its big studio fair during COVID the studio laid out a very specific play of 17 days in theaters for those titles opening to less than $50 million before going to premium vodka and 30 days for movies opening north of $50 million before heading to PVOD. It's all part of a financial waterfall strategy of downstream revenues, with Peacock serving as a pay one window, followed by Amazon in the subsequent window for some titles, end quote. But yeah, this is a change. And basically they're saying that most of its major releases will be seven days exclusively in theaters. Davindra harderwynie reaction to the news.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I mean, good, good thing. I think we've all talked about this. I think having slightly longer lead time in the theaters is great. It is wild to see, like, how quick the VOD window has been for some things, but I don't think it's ultimately helpful, like, keep movies in theaters. People love to see movies when they're there later. So, yeah, hopefully this works out.

[Matt Goldberg]

Yeah, I feel like you're ultimately robbing yourself with a shorter window because at any. With, with ticket prices being what they are, people are fine to wait it out on. If they think they can see a big movie in two weeks, they'll be like, why would I pay $20 now? I've already got this Peacock. Peacock subscription. I'll just wait a few weeks. And I think ultimately you, your subscription numbers are going to be stagnant, whereas you are cutting off your box office revenue.

[David Chen]

Yeah, I think on a case by case basis, it's, it, it could make sense theoretically, because oftentimes, you know, I think the, the, the maxim is you will often know if the movie comes out on like a Thursday night, you will know by Friday midday what the full amount of money that movie is going to make at the theatre for its theatrical run is going to be. And so it's like, oh, hey, this movie's dead in the water. Let's just put it on vod. Like, it makes sense in theory, but if you do that often enough, it has this corrosive relationship with, as, as Matt indicated, where people just are like, they, they're like, hey, I don't need to, I don't need to spend money on this. I don't need to go out there into theaters to see this. I can just wait for a vod. I can wait till it's on Peacock. And I think we have felt some impact of that. So this is a wonderful move and shows that at the end of all this there's at least going to be one company making good movies and putting them out in theaters. And that is going to be Universal. I cannot speak for any of the other companies, but at least one company is going to believe in the theatrical experience all the way to the end. And that is probably Universal.

[Matt Goldberg]

I absolutely hate to have to give it to him, but Tom Rothman published an op ed in the New York Times saying windows are key, the theatrical windows are key. So I think Sony will be sticking with it as well. But you know, those will be the last two, not the ones. I just think everyone should just stick to theatrical windows. Don't cannibalize.

[Devindra Hardawar]

We had a good thing. We had a good thing going. Yes, your business. You had to mess it up. Basically. It's the Breaking Bad scene. You had a good thing.

[David Chen]

Yeah. You had to go and ruin it with your. You had to go streaming and. And your at home experience. Anyway, so glad to hear Universal's making this decision. We'll see if like other studios commit to anything similar. That has not happened yet. As far as I can.

[Devindra Hardawar]

It's a good thing. Like I don't want to just sound like I am carrying water for studios here too. Like it's like I think this is pro consumer in a way because I saw somebody in blue sky tweeting yesterday. You know what's great? Going to the theater and seeing crime 101 weeks and weeks and weeks after that movie came out and just like chilling on a Sunday or Saturday afternoon watching Crime 101 on like a matinee. And that is great. I saw Kill Bill Volume two like five or six times in the theaters and the last time was like the very last weekend. Ratty ass print. I know that specific weekend because we were about to get kicked out of our dorms for staying there too long too. So it was a whole like very specific moment. But if I had a 30 day theatrical window wouldn't have been possible. That moment would have been robbed from my memory. So keep movies in theaters.

[Matt Goldberg]

And not only that, but it gives movies. The longer you keep them in theaters, the more it treats them like real movies and creates a life where people will mention it. The fact that someone is mentioning crime 101 like a month after it came out is great. Whereas I mean, is anyone talking about the rip, you know, that's the thing. Rip. Another Crime film.

[David Chen]

Other than the people on this podcast. Other than the people.

[Matt Goldberg]

You know, that's the thing. And it just. It kind of vanishes.

[David Chen]

Yeah, yeah, it's true. Anyway, wonderful decision. Donna Langley, wonderful filmmaker and producer, and we wish her and everyone at Universal the best with this decision. Hope it yields the fruit that they're looking for. All right, guys, it's time to talk about the Oscars. And I think it is best to divide the conversation, as usual, into the broadcast and the winners. Right? So, like, what do we think of the broadcast, the. The broadcast as a show, as a piece of entertainment, and then separately, the winners? Let's just start with the show, because that's the easiest to kind of react to. I was able to watch it live. It was streaming on Disney plus in Portugal. And I will say that I have a couple of reactions. Okay, real quick. And then I'd love to hear.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Oh, streaming on Disney.

[David Chen]

Yeah, in Portugal.

[Devindra Hardawar]

That's better than what they did for us in America. Let me get on my soapbox over here. Because it was streaming on Hulu in America, right? And Disney spent a lot of time getting people off of the Hulu app, right onto the Disney plus app, saying, everything's here, guys. Just stay here. No, to see the Oscars, you have to launch the Hulu app. If you had a Hulu subscription before, when you do that, you'll be like, hey, buddy, your subscription's over. You don't have a subscription. You had to log in on disneyplus.com in a fucking web browser, activate your Hulu subscription, go back to the Hulu app, maybe refresh because you got that error message. Oh, if that error message stuck around, you got to change your password on disneyplus.com, so it registers a new Hulu account. Then you may watch the Oscars on Hulu.

[David Chen]

Wow, Devindra. Sounds like you're pretty irritated at that. I have to say, it's a pretty.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Pretty bad setup over there.

[David Chen]

Yeah, I have to say that I'm looking forward to none of these things being a problem next year when, theoretically, it'll be broadcast on YouTube.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Isn't it 2028?

[Matt Goldberg]

No, it's 2029. So there's ABC got the Oscars through the 100th ceremony. So 100.

[David Chen]

101. Did I say last next year? I meant in two years from now, man.

[Devindra Hardawar]

In two years, if we're still around. But this situation, it's the full. It's studio mess. It's like TV network mess. It is insertification of tech mess. It is all of our shit culminated in one live event that people are just trying to watch. What a disaster. I feel like that is if it didn't work for you.

[David Chen]

Well, yeah, well, speaking of technical disasters. Go ahead, Matt.

[Matt Goldberg]

I was just saying the good news is the Super bowl in 2027 will be on Disney, so I'm sure it'll go great.

[David Chen]

No, no problems there. So a couple of quick reactions. First of all, speaking of technical issues, I felt like the entire broadcast was plagued with technical issues.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Disaster sounds.

[David Chen]

You know, people. People might say, oh, it's so easy to do a podcast. It's just audio, guys. It's just audio. Well, last night at the. Or, you know, whenever you watch this last. Whenever we watch the Oscars showed that audio is not easy sometimes because there were many times that the mics cut out. I have to say that in general, I find it hard to hear people, no matter how high I cranked up the volume.

[Devindra Hardawar]

It is almost exactly 100 years since the Jazz Singer hit theaters. The first movie with sound. We still can't get it right. What's going on?

[David Chen]

So, yeah, the audio was pretty rough throughout the entire evening. And there were a couple of other sort of snafus of people being played off super early in embarrassing fashion with terrible optics and. And, you know, basically like kind of technical mishaps throughout the evening. All that said, I don't know if anyone else enjoyed Conan Stick, but I know I felt. I was like. I felt a community with Devendra in that moment because I was like, I'll eat it up. We're having a blast. We're having a blast.

[Devindra Hardawar]

This is the guy. Yeah.

[Matt Goldberg]

Of course.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Of course. He does weapons cosplay in the very first moments of the Oscars. That's Conan.

[Matt Goldberg]

I cannot tell you how much I cackled at. The sequel to F1 will be called Caps Lock. Caps Lock. And I lost it because it's such. Yeah, we're screaming at Grogu to clap because he can't do it.

[David Chen]

Just horrible, cringeworthy jokes that were nonetheless awesome. Like, it's just like. That is classic Conan. It is directly the Grogu thing. Yeah, yeah. Like, he's making. I love that he is not afraid to a look like a fool and baby make the audience uncomfortable.

[Matt Goldberg]

Yes.

[Devindra Hardawar]

And he's also not, like, talking shit about the ceremonies or the Oscars happened recently, Right? Yes.

[Matt Goldberg]

I mean, the thing is that he is coming in there not as someone who. There are in hosts that are like, this is all dumb and Hollywood is dumb. And you guys are like, throwing a party for yourself. And he doesn't do that.

[David Chen]

No.

[Matt Goldberg]

He clearly loves film. He pokes fun at, like, the things that are worth, like, at the powerful, like, the jokes that. Like, making fun of Ted Sarandos to his face was great. Like, it's clear that Conan loves movies as movies, and I think that really comes across. And then when he does make fun of something, he's making fun of himself. And I think that really lessens the tension in the room to say, like, I'm not, you know, I'm not making fun of you on your special night. I'm making fun of all of us, including myself.

[David Chen]

Yeah, indeed.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Except for Timothee Chalamet, the. The punching bag of the night.

[David Chen]

Oh, my gosh. I mean, look, I'm not a huge Chalamet fan or anything, but that was pretty brutal to watch.

[Devindra Hardawar]

No, I think, I think he kind of, like I said, kid deserves a little bit of coming down to earth. Deserves a couple hits.

[David Chen]

He could get himself taken down a notch. That's not too bad for him. Couple of other things worth highlighting. I thought the In Memoriam segment was. They did it differently this year, right? They had extended eulogizing for multiple figures and specifically including Robert Redford, Catherine o', Hara, other people, including like Robert Duvall, Val Kilmer mentioned as well during the In Memoriam. And Rob Reiner received a ton of attention as well. And honestly, I personally got pretty emotional during that segment because you just realize how much we lost in 2025. Just like the sheer tonnage of Hollywood legends and talent that we lost in 2025 is just staggering. Staggering. And so it made complete sense to me that they would take time. That that's whole segment lasts like 10 minutes. I think they would take time to be like, hey, some giants of this industry that helped to define the art form of cinema passed away in 2025. We are going to take the time to properly remember them. And I thought that was well worth it. Personally.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Also plagued with bad sound. Like, sadly. So sadly, you get try sand on. Come on.

[David Chen]

Yeah, yeah. You know, by the way, Matt Berry was the like, announcer. Literally didn't even hear him for the first like hour of the ceremony. I don't even know what was going on there anyway. Okay.

[Matt Goldberg]

I didn't realize he was there until I heard him like do the ad lead and he was like, and now

[David Chen]

from Burger King and it's like,

[Devindra Hardawar]

love him.

[David Chen]

So anyway, yeah, so those are some notes in the broad. Like, my thoughts on the broadcast. I Thought overall. Oh, the other thing I wanted to mention too is there were a lot of like little extended comedic bits that I thought were pretty rough. You know, like Robert Downey Jr. And Chris Evans doing this little Avengers esque bit. I thought that was pretty, pretty rough, pretty rough stuff. And you know, that's the stuff that's taking time away from the speeches, which theoretically are some of the more interesting, potentially heartfelt moments of the night. So I did not appreciate the way that they traded those things off.

[Matt Goldberg]

Yeah.

[David Chen]

But overall it was like kind of a lackadaisical, sloppy broadcast. It wasn't like the worst that there's ever been. Conan really held the thing together. Those are my thoughts. Devindra, any other thoughts on the broadcast specifically?

[Devindra Hardawar]

I feel like last year's with Conan felt more like, oh man, this feels different. This feels like energy in something. And now it feels like he's kind of like settling into a little bit of these ceremonies. I hope he sticks around for a while. I love Conan. Give him everything. And even those bits that didn't work, it feels like the bits on Conan's show that never quite works. He loves to linger in that space where a bit isn't working. Just kind of revel in it sometimes. So like the bridesmaids thing, I think like it went up and down, up and down. But you know, the Stellan Skarsgard's call out there, like the get. Getting the actors in the, in the audience in on the bits even, maybe they didn't even warn them. That's always fun to me. So it was, it was entertaining. Keep Conan around. I hope it doesn't get, you know, I hope it doesn't like go downhill from here. Also real shades of Billy Crystal with Conan's opening.

[David Chen]

Right.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Like very much the Billy Crystal running through all the movies and love that too. Like if you didn't, if you're, if you're young, you probably don't clock that, but that feels, that feels like some like very nice reference there. I agree.

[David Chen]

I love a good opening segment where the host runs through all the movies. That's just, it's. And they clearly put a lot of work into it with some good K pop demon hunters animation, you know, like it was, they didn't just throw that together in an afternoon like they clearly like spent mapping it out. And I think it was worth it. Matt Goldberg, any thoughts on the broadcast before we get to the awards?

[Matt Goldberg]

I think for me the most confusing thing about the broadcast is I was like, this is not a well produced show in the sense that, like the structure of it, the sound. And yet I looked it's the same lead creative team as last year and last year's was in the aftermath of the fires. So it is kind of. I don't know what happened behind the scenes. I don't know why the show felt as clunky and unwieldy as it did this year. But I do feel like one of the choices that producers should make before the show, regardless of who the host is, regardless of who the nominees are, is let's scale back on these extended bits of excruciating banter that no one will ultimately remember. Even though we control it, even though we're writing it and just ease up and be like, you know what, someone who worked in sound for all of their life maybe deserves a few more minutes to support their work and hopefully inspire the next generation of people who are going to be part of this. Like, I think that is more beneficial to the industry and to the show than watching, you know, two famous people riff.

[David Chen]

Absolutely no disagreement here. All right, let's talk about the winners themselves. I'm going to read from the Hollywood Reporter. This gives a good rundown of some of the big winners of the evening. One battle after another was named best picture at the 98th Oscars, which were handed on Sunday. That film took home six Oscars in total. Paul Thomas Anderson also won the award for best directing and Best adapted screenplay, marking his first ever wins. Sean Penn, who wasn't at the ceremony, won best Supporting actor and One Battle also landed an Oscar for best Film editing. This year, the Oscars added a new category, the first since Best Animated Feature was introduced in 2002. Recognizing best casting, Cassandra Kulakundis won the Oscar for One Battle. Elsewhere, Sinners took home four Oscars. Michael B. Jordan named the best actor, while Ryan Coogler won for best screenplay, which also nabbed the award for best Original score and best cinematography won Battle and Sinners powered Warner Brothers to a record night. Jessie Buckley was named best Actress for Hamnet. Amy Madigan won best supporting Actress for her role in Weapons K Pop. Demon Hunters won the best Oscar for best Animated feature, while the film's golden became the first K Pop song ever to win an Oscar for best Original song. And then Frankenstein scooped up a trio of wins for costume design, makeup, hairstyling and production design. So those were some of the big winners of the night. Any reactions, Matt Goldberg, any reactions to what won? Anything you were surprised by, anything you were disappointed by?

[Matt Goldberg]

I would say I was pleasantly surprised that Sinners won Best cinematography. I had that pegged as one battle, and it was great to see that history being made that night with the first woman to ever win that Oscar for Best cinematography. And I would say, in terms of, like, the biggest surprise, like I always like, to me, the shorts categories are always kind of a crapshoot. It was kind of neat to see a tie. First tie since 2013.

[David Chen]

And I got to say, I think Kumal Nanjiani did a good job.

[Matt Goldberg]

Amazing job.

[David Chen]

A fairly unprecedented. I know it's happened before, but, like, a somewhat unprecedented situation where he doesn't happen often. He explained what was going on. He's like, don't worry. It's going to be okay. Yeah. Also, it was amazing the way Conan introduced him. He said he's like. He's a man with the body of a Marvel superhero hero and the voice of a Marvel Comics collector, which is very funny. Anyway, go ahead. Sorry.

[Devindra Hardawar]

No.

[Matt Goldberg]

And so. And so I would say outside of, like, the shorts, the biggest surprise for me was Best Documentary. I really thought the Perfect Neighbor was going to win it. Feel like. It felt like it had the momentum. It had Netflix's backing, and instead it went to Mr. Putin against or Mr. Nobody against Putin, which I thought was, I think, a stronger film, a more a film that really speaks to our time. Not that the Perfect Neighbor doesn't, but I feel like there's an immediacy there, and I hope more people check that film out. So I was pleasantly surprised by that win. So, yeah, I don't think there was, like, too many surprises. I was annoyed that Sean Penn won for Best Supporting Actor, not because he didn't show up. I don't think anyone's obligated to show up. It's just. I think he has a habit of winning an Oscar over more interesting competitors. Like when he won for mystic river, that was the year where Johnny Depp, for the first Pirates movie, that was more interesting. He won over Mickey Rourke for the Wrestler when he played Melk. And so for this, I just felt like Skarsgard was more interesting. Del Toro was more interesting. Delroy Lindo was more interesting. So I just. It's one of those things where you're just sort of like. And you kind of move on with it.

[David Chen]

I don't know, man. That's where I. That's the one thing you said that I disagree with you. I thought he was so good in one battle after another.

[Matt Goldberg]

Good. Like, I don't dislike him in it. I just think that the other. His competitors are stronger yeah, that's fair.

[David Chen]

I just. I guess I just feel like that character that he plays, a Colonel Lockjaw, encapsulates so much of literally the situation we are in right now.

[Matt Goldberg]

Sure.

[David Chen]

Like that. That character, if you're like, hey, this character explains the. Literally the. The political moment we are in as we are recording this podcast right now. I. I feel like it's extremely explanatory and illuminating. Personally. Personally. All right, Devindra Hardware, your reactions to these wins. Anything that surprised you, anything you were delighted by.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I mean, I'm right there with you with Sean Penn, Matt. Also, because I'm not a huge Sean Penn fan in general for personal reasons. Absolutely not a great person.

[David Chen]

No disagreement there, by the way.

[Devindra Hardawar]

But Delroy Lindo, he was owed, like, it feels like he was owed that. That man has been working so hard, doing incredible work for decades, and I don't know if he's going to have many more chances to really even be in this selection. So I really wanted that for him or something. I really would have wanted Sinners to win best pitcher. But, you know, One Battle is still a great one. Overall, it does disappoint me. Like, I feel like there's been a lot written about One Battle versus Sinners. Both good movies, but also how they approach this moment and what they have to say about today. And it is weird how PTA coming up for his. His, you know, speeches, it feels like he did not really have that much to say. Weirdly. I don't know. It feels like this is a big moment. There's a lot of shit going on in the world and in America right now, very few people actually even acknowledge, like, how bad things are shout out, you know, to everybody who kind of, like, took a step up there. It's especially the. The winner, the director of Mr. Nobody or one of the directors, Mr. Nobody versus Putin. Like, that was a very important speech to say.

[David Chen]

Right. Directly drew parallels between Russia and the current environment in the United States. Right now is probably the most overtly political speech of the night. Yeah.

[Devindra Hardawar]

And also Javier Bardem just coming out and saying, no more free Palestine. Like, you have this platform.

[David Chen]

Yeah.

[Devindra Hardawar]

You have power. You can do that.

[David Chen]

Absolutely.

[Matt Goldberg]

It was a surprisingly politics free night in terms of commenting on the world. And I don't know.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah.

[Matt Goldberg]

I don't know how that came about, if that was a conscious decision or people just chose not to think about it. I do think regarding what you said about Anderson, it's interesting because the question with One Battle is he has, I think, been saying like, well, I didn't make a political film, which I think is him kind of messing with people.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Jesus Christ, dude.

[Matt Goldberg]

Yeah, it is. And you know, it is. And I think either you're being disingenuous. Disingenuous. Or you're messing with people. Either way, it is a political film. And I think it's fine for it to be a political film because I think, you know, he might want to, like, broaden it. It's like we're worried about the future we're handing to our kids. And I think that's sort of the universal idea behind it. But I do kind of wish. I don't know, maybe he's like, I want the art to speak for itself.

[David Chen]

Yeah. I was going to say the counter argument is the art itself is the thing that they're saying, you know, that's great. We need to expect the filmmakers to also, you know, be able to. You're the one that's told me before, Devindra, that we can't necessarily expect the filmmakers to, like, you know, dance when we want them to do and so on.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I mean, sure. But also, the world is on fire. And any. Any, I think, moment, you have to wake people up to this fact. Like, we're here partying in Hollywood for the Oscars. This feels fucking weird. This feels weird that we're celebrating all of this when we just started an unprovoked war in Iran. So many things are like, ice is still out there on the streets. There's a lot of bad going on. And I think it is worth acknowledging that as much as possible, as often as possible. Like the director of, you know, Mr. Nobody, Bruce Butin, said, like, it's. Fascism is happening with. With small things happening all at once. Right? And if you're not speaking up, if you're not acknowledging it, it is ultimately a thing that kind of allows it to be normalized. So that's just my issue there. Also want to point out for the cinematographer of Sinners, Andrault Arkapau, not just the first woman, the first black woman to win that prize, the first Filipino woman, like, first person of color in general, I believe, too. So it's just wild. Or maybe not first person of color, but first woman of color for sure. And just her speech, I thought, really met the moment and felt like she understood the power of that platform and what she was doing there. It did kind of annoy me that PTA got on there and was like, you know, it's great. It's great. I won this. And he just felt Kind of jumbled, maybe. He is a guy who thinks and, you know, speaks better when he is making films. Right. He makes big, complex films and he's not speech guy.

[Matt Goldberg]

Exactly. And I think that's sort of the idea of it is, like, not everyone speaks in the same sort of way as they want to communicate their ideas.

[David Chen]

Yeah, yeah. In terms of my reactions to the winners, I thought, overall, it's a great set of movies. You know, like, there's nothing. There's very few upsets in the whole night.

[Devindra Hardawar]

No major. There's no Green Book scenario going on here.

[David Chen]

Yes. We're quite a ways away from Green Book, I would say, with one battle after another winning Best Picture. I think the only thing I wanted to highlight is a lot of horror movies had recognition at the Oscars, which is somewhat atypical, if I'm not mistaken. Right. So you had sinners, you had weapons, and you had Frankenstein getting a lot of awards. And so it's nice to see horror recognized. And I just wanted to give a shout out to Amy Madigan. You know, I've seen a lot of chatter online of, does Amy Madigan deserve to get an Oscar? Is this just a career trophy? In my opinion, she was phenomenal in weapons. Her performance, like, her performance was chilling.

[Matt Goldberg]

Yeah.

[David Chen]

And. And whether or not it comes at the end of a long, illustrious career, it's. I thought it was very well deserved.

[Matt Goldberg]

I think she deserves it as much as, like, Anthony Hopkins deserves one for Hannibal Lecter. When you create an iconic horror villain.

[David Chen]

Yes.

[Matt Goldberg]

You get that Oscar.

[David Chen]

100%. 100%. So anyway, kind of rough broadcast, decent awards and a couple surprises, and it looks like one battle was the one that the Academy went with this year. I did appreciate PTAs. First of all, like, this is Paul Thomas Anderson's first win. And I do think, like, this is a person who does deserve to win. Like, this is a person whose contributions to cinema have been pretty substantial if

[Devindra Hardawar]

he feels like it's been a long time coming for him.

[David Chen]

It's kind of like Christopher Nolan. Right. A while back, where it's like, okay, like, that guy deserves to get some recognition for this. And similarly, PTA here as well. Very well deserved. This is the. The night that I remembered. Oh, wow. He didn't win for There Will Be Blood. That's right. Which is, you know, something that was probably an injustice of some kind, I think. What?

[Matt Goldberg]

No, the Coen brothers won, but again, that's their moment.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah.

[Matt Goldberg]

You know, it's just how time rolls on.

[David Chen]

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But a great set of winners. And I think the only other thing I'll say about it is not to be an incredible downer, which, you know, I love to be on this podcast, but it does feel to me like this is the end of an era. Right? Like, and what I mean by that is, first of all, in a couple

[Devindra Hardawar]

of years, this is the end of the American empire.

[David Chen]

Yes, this ceremony will be transitioning to YouTube, but also so, like, the whole, like, I don't know what the culture, cultural space this show will occupy once that happens, because there was, I think, some kind of prestige and glamour accorded to it by the fact that it was on television, broadcast television. Like, what's that going to be like when it's on YouTube? They joked about how there's going to be extremely low quality ads next to it. Right. Like, you know, I'm curious what that's going to feel like. But in addition, obviously, we all know that there's a significant likelihood that Paramount is going to acquire Warner Brothers, the studio that by far won the most number of awards. And Paramount, I don't know if you guys noticed, Paramount not super well represented at the awards last night. I'm not super confident that they are going to be able to shepherd Warner Brothers to, like, overwhelming victory again. You know, it feels like the old way of doing things is going away. Like with the Immemorium segment, transitioning to YouTube, Warner Brothers winning all the awards and now being acquired and probably stripped for parts. It feels like just all this stuff is kind of like turning. Like we're at a turning point for the industry. And I do think we will look back on this Oscar ceremony for all its problems, very fondly, as, like a time when, hey, there was great diverse art and it was adequately recognized and we will miss those times. That's my guess.

[Matt Goldberg]

Well, I would like to counter that because I think what you're talking about is the end of the Hollywood empire. And I think that is true. I think as Hollywood contracts and if Paramount does accomplish buying Warner Brothers and makes one fewer studio, that's less product coming out of Hollywood. That being said, something that the Academy has done in the last decade that has already drastically changed the kinds of films that win is create an international body that it never had before. And I think what you're going to see from the Oscars going forward may be fewer Hollywood winners, but more international winners, more nominees.

[David Chen]

Like the Secret Agent.

[Matt Goldberg]

Like the Secret Agent. Like Sentimental Value, like, it was just an accident. I think you're going to Keep seeing more because I think the rest of the world, especially as the cost of the technology comes down and accessibility rises to those tools, you. You're going to have more filmmakers have their shot. And I think with the establishment of neon and a 24 as real players in this space, what's going to happen is you're going to see it's not going to be Warner Brothers who wins best Picture. It's going to be more of neon and a 24 and those who back these foreign titles that still connect with people.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah, it was not that long ago that Parasite won, you know, and I'm like, I remember that moment watching the Oscars. I was laying down on the floor, Parasite wins best pitcher. I shot right up. Like, how the hell did that happen? How did that happen?

[David Chen]

Amazing.

[Devindra Hardawar]

So, yeah, more of that.

[David Chen]

On that note, I forgot to mention this, but my biggest disappointment of the night, Matt, was it was just an accident. Got completely shut out. As far as I can tell, that was my number one film of 2025, and I do think it deserved more recognition than it got at the Oscars.

[Matt Goldberg]

It's an incredible film and I don't know why, for whatever reason, the academy didn't spark to it. Yeah, maybe it was, you know, and you know, sometimes it's. It's little things that you don't, as an outsider, you don't even think of. Like it's not so matter a matter of like, oh, they saw and they didn't like it. But honestly, it might be an accessibility thing. Like some, like the screeners didn't go out as they should have or it wasn't screened often enough. There's so many logistical things that can factor into whether a film is recognized.

[David Chen]

Indeed. Indeed. Anyway, those are our thoughts on this year's Oscar ceremony. That's going to bring us to our first break. We're going to take a break. We'll be right back with what you'll be watching right after this.

[Matt Goldberg]

This episode of the film cast is brought to you by svs. Let's talk, folks. Let's get serious. Let's talk about a problem that no one wants to admit they have. That's right, it's the giant TV problem. You bought the giant tv. I got the giant tv. It's beautiful. It's basically a portal to another world. It's massive. And then you say to yourself, well, I'm sure the built in speakers on this ultra thin slab of glass are totally fine. Who needs better sound than what's already on this teeny, tiny little thin monstrosity of a television. Guess what? They're not fine, Those postage stamp sized TV speakers. Yeah, they're doing their best, but they're fighting physics by trying to reproduce action sequences or orchestral sound scores or even whispered dialogue.

[David Chen]

It's an impossible job.

[Matt Goldberg]

Guess what? SVS exists to fix that. They make speakers and subwoofers that bring real cinematic sound into your home. The kind where explosions actually have weight, music gives you chills, and the dialogue, it doesn't sound like it's coming from your kid's toy. You know what I'm saying? The best part is SVS gear is designed for real people, real rooms and real budgets. And they back it up with free shipping, free returns and a risk free in home trial. So you can actually hear the difference for yourself with no risk. If you have already gone big on your tv, don't let it be held hostage by bad audio. Go to svsound.com and give your movies the sonic upgrade they deserve with SVS.

[David Chen]

Again, svsound.com all right folks, let's talk about what we've been watching this week. This week I had a chance to see Louis Theroux Inside the Manosphere, which is streaming right now on Netflix. Have you guys heard of this documentary?

[Matt Goldberg]

I have heard of it.

[David Chen]

Inside the Manosphere. I have to say if here's my overall thoughts on Inside the Manosphere. First of all, if you are not familiar with the Manosphere, I do think you should watch this documentary. It is a decent overview of who some of the big players are and more specifically, more importantly what the main talking points are and how these people make money. Right? And I think that's important just for people to know what is out there. For those who don't know, by the way, the Manosphere is this I think loosely affiliated group of right wing men's rights leaning folks online whose main message is about enforcing I would describe as like ultra traditional gender roles, right? Where like the man has a place of primacy in the household and women are their subjects and you know, they and should kind of be servile to their needs and many portions of the manosphere, like most of the manosphere as I can tell was hugely supportive of Donald Trump and can can be attributed, a lot can be attributed to their support of him in his victory. So I do think it's like an extremely important political force for people to be aware of and Louis Theroux Inside the Manosphere provides like a good overview if you have been following the Manosphere for a while, if you already know who the main players are. I don't think this documentary is that revelatory, you know, like, it's not. Like, it's only 90 minutes. I can't do like a deep dive and teach one of these people in the way that you might want to. It does have that classic Louis Theroux style of he's just kind of stands there a little bit aloof and trying to and lets people like talk until they say extremely stupid things, which does happen in this documentary. And I think a lot of people have been clipping it and enjoying it in that way. By far the most disturbing part of the documentary is when Louis Theroux goes out with these Manosphere guys into public and they are constantly swarmed by young boys. Like little boys. Coming up. Oh my God, I can't believe it's you. Can we take a selfie like, oh, I love all your video. And you just realize what a hold this these personalities have on Gen Z Young Men. And until people understand the messages that they're peddling and until people understand how to counteract those messages or. Or present Gen Z young man and any young men with a superior alternative of what masculinity looks like, I think it will continue to be a huge problem. So overall, I think it's a valuable documentary, but it's pretty surface level, in my opinion. It doesn't like do any deep dives. And I do think a lot of people will have enjoyed watching Louis Theroux make these men uncomfortable and kind of reveal what their true belief systems are. So those are my thoughts on Louis Theroux Inside the Manosphere, which is streaming right now on Netflix. That is an overall recommend from me, David Chen. You guys planning to check this out? Have you guys? How familiar you guys with the Manosphere?

[Devindra Hardawar]

I know the Manosphere.

[Matt Goldberg]

I'm aware of it.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I report on it. I don't need to go outside of it.

[Matt Goldberg]

I've got it. I figured it out. I got it.

[Devindra Hardawar]

They seem pretty.

[Matt Goldberg]

An easier way to sell vitamins.

[David Chen]

Indeed. Indeed. All right, that's something I've been watching the Viggo hardware. Hit us up with something you watch this week.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I've been watching something a lot happier than that than the Manosphere. The Scrubs reboot Scrubs.

[David Chen]

In many ways the opposite of the Manosphere.

[Devindra Hardawar]

In many ways. Positive masculinity.

[David Chen]

Non toxic. Yeah, non toxic masculinity.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Even. Even the toddler more positive, more aware of his behavior. Scrubs. Officially season 10 of scrubs is back. After over. What was it 15 years since the sort of, like, disastrous final seasons of Scrubs. I love Scrubs. I love Scrubs so much.

[David Chen]

Same.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Especially like the first.

[David Chen]

We watched Scrubs together and we watched Scrubs together.

[Devindra Hardawar]

We, like, enjoyed Scrubs. It was just such a, like, the tone of it, the sense of humor, you know, Like, I've always loved Scrubs, so I have to say, the reboot feels like old Scrubs. It feels like Scrubs is just back again. Kind of forgetting Season nine just happened in a way. Even though it is showrun by Aseem Batra, who she was in Scrubs. She was also, like, lead of, like, some of the later seasons, too. Lead writer, I believe. So it's good. It's just good. It feels like a warm blanket. Feels comforting. Feels great to see Turk and JD Back together. I think Zach Braff, we've talked about this for some actors, like the guy from Burn Notice, I think Zach Braff has one mode. His one mode that I can appreciate is JD From Scrubs. Everything else Zach Braff does, I find the guy irritating as hell at this point, but he can still do jd And JD Even though he's older and he has a kid, he still feels like a man child who's figuring out the world. And it's still, like, entertaining to watch. It does the Scrubs thing where it tries to tie a lesson into there. Tries to be heartfelt. It tries to be really character focused, and it's really funny, too, so I'm digging it. I think my one complaint is that it does seem like a lot of people have been stuck in place, and it does a thing where I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if J.D. deserved that. What it does in the first episode of this reboot. So we'll see. We'll see where it goes. I'm only like three episodes in so far, but it's very good. It feels like home and it makes me want to go back and rewatch Scrubs because what a. What a magical show this has been. And, you know, I love the freaking Bill Lawrence, like, has been on a roll, right? He has been on such a roll over the last few years. I'm very glad he's able to come back to this.

[David Chen]

I've also been watching the Scrubs reboot on Hulu Disney plus, and it is one of the best ones of these reboots. Right. There's been many shows where they go back in the streaming era and they revive a show that was a network sitcom from many years ago and not only does this do a pretty decent job of capturing the magic of the original and the sensibility of the original, but it does a good job of updating the characters, in my opinion, of like, showing like, hey, back then you could verbally abuse all of your employees, and now that doesn't fly. And Gen Z is different in their work ethic than Millennials in this way. And like, all these things that the.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Maybe some of that's better.

[David Chen]

Yeah, that's a good job of, of. Of tackling. So I am also a fan of the Scrubs reboot along with Defender Hardware. Not.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Not just reviving a show. Reviving a show that was literally on life support. I feel like for the last season, like, just there were so many things going wrong in the fact, like, it is like, you, you, you. Yeah, you. What's the thing? You jolt them back to life. The show is jolted back to life and it feels good and not like you defib.

[David Chen]

Yeah, all right. That's something different yout heart has been watching. Matt Goldberg hit us up with something you watching this week.

[Matt Goldberg]

So with the Oscars were coming up and a friend of mine had been like, he's like, I'm going to try to watch all the Oscar winners. And I was like, I don't have the time to do that exactly. But I'm going to try to watch as many of the Best Picture winners that I have never seen or I haven't seen in a very long time. I'm going to try to do that in the weeks leading up to the Oscars. And I specifically wanted to start it in. Start in with the first ten best picture winners because I feel like there's a great book called Oscar wars by Michael Shulman and talks about how the Oscars, if you look at them category by category or even year by year, you're missing the larger picture, which isn't that, oh, the Oscars got it right, the Oscars got it wrong, but the Oscars are telling us. Is Hollywood telling a story about itself? So I think in those first 10 pictures, when no one even really knows what the Oscars are, are, that was really interesting to me to sort of dive in to see, like, okay, from 1928 through 1938, what are these movies that Hollywood says, okay, this is the best our industry has to offer, or this is how we want to represent ourselves. Because that really was what the Oscars were, a way for these moguls to create a form of legitimacy. And yes, there was also sort of a way to mitigate unfair labor practices with a shiny statue. But also it was trying to get a way to portray the industry in a positive light. And so it was really interesting for me to, like, jump back in and sort of see films that, like, some have held up really well. And then there are others that have been completely forgotten and are just sort of these footnotes for Oscars, like a film like Cavalcade or a film like Cimarron, which are kind of similar films in that they are like, look at how much the world is changing through the lives of this one. This, like, one family. And, like, that would be the story. And it. So it sort of convinces you it has an epic scope because, like. Like, the story takes place over decades, but then, like, the story itself is just not that interesting. It's more like the world is interesting, but the way that the world interacts with these people is not as compelling as they thought. And then there are those that I think held up, like, All Quiet on the Western Front.

[David Chen]

So would you like to highlight any of the ones that you saw, Matt Goldberg?

[Matt Goldberg]

Yeah, I mean, I think when I. You know, rather than just being, like. I mean, from the first 10 years, I would say that, like, most of them are okay to find. I think Wings is interesting as the only true silent to ever win Best Picture. I mean, we can count the Artist, but we shouldn't. And then I would say if I jump forward a little bit, if you go to. I believe it was, I want to say, 1966 is a man for All Seasons, which is about the relationship between Sir Thomas More and More and the court of Henry viii. And I thought that one was really interesting with some great performances. So I think people should check that out. The. When it came to films like Cavalcade and Cimarron, I had to, like, just rent them, which is fine. But actually, man for All Seasons, I have all the Columbia classics, like, box set, 4K box sets.

[David Chen]

Nice. So how many disc is that? Like, 50 discs?

[Matt Goldberg]

6 times 5. 30. Wow. So. And most of Columbia's Best Picture winners are, like, nestled in there somewhere. There's also, like, Gandhi is in there in one of the sets, and so is all the King's Men. So it was nice that I just could just.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah. All right.

[Matt Goldberg]

I'll watch A Man for All Seasons.

[David Chen]

So Cavalcade, Cimarron, and A Man for All Seasons would be the ones that you'd want to. A few of the ones you want, I think highlight.

[Matt Goldberg]

I don't know if I tell people they should go see Cimarron, like, They're like, this is the most boring film. This is the most boring ass Western I've ever seen.

[David Chen]

But why don't you just tell us briefly about Cimarron?

[Matt Goldberg]

Like, okay, so, like, Cimarron is like, these guys move to Oklahoma territory during, like, there's the Oklahoma land grab. And this guy doesn't get land. He, like, misses out on the land because a woman tricks him. She's like, oh, my horse fell. Can you shoot him? And then, like, she runs and, like, plants her flat, her stake in the land he was going to take. Anyway, he comes back and, like, opens up the newspaper. And his whole thing is he's like, I have such wanderlust. And so he's building the paper, and his wife is like, I'm not really happy about this, but I guess we'll do it. And then he just leaves for long sections to go adventuring, while she literally does the work of making the paper an institution in the town. And the whole film is about watching this Wild west community become a real place. And the idea of the film is that he is sort of the frontiersman, the one who, like, sees the future and goes and creates it. And then it's like. And also, women are here to actually do the work. Like, he gets to, like, be the visionary. And then she has to do the unglamorous part of, like, okay, what's today's headline? But it's also, you know, because it's came out in what I would say, 31, 32. It's very regressive in its gender norms, where it's sort of like, he's the one who's very far thinking about, like, he thinks Indians should have rights. And it's like, yes, that's correct. He's not wrong. But she's like, I don't know about that. The community won't like it. And then, like, 15 years pass and they're like, it's the anniversary of the paper. What should we run? And she's like, we should run my husband's old op ed. Because he was right. It's that kind of movie.

[David Chen]

Mm. Mm. So at the end of this exercise, Matt, what do you feel like you've learned about how the academy and our film industry has evolved over time?

[Matt Goldberg]

I think what's really fascinating is how much it's changed in just a short time. Like, not only is the best way to sort of understand Hollywood through these decades, and the Oscars are a good way to help you understand that, but just the radical flip, like, one of the Films I rewatched was Argo, you know, and we used to say, like, you know, Hollywood just loves movies about Hollywood, which is true. But honestly, Argo was the last movie that was kind of about filmmaking and about Hollywood to win Best Picture. And I think by virtue of the Academy becoming more La La Land. La La Land didn't win Best Picture.

[David Chen]

Oh, that's right. I forgot about that.

[Matt Goldberg]

But that's what I'm saying. Like, it's a, it's a changing body. And I mean, even if you, like go back before this year, the last, the film that won best picture of the year before was Anora, a film about sex, work and capitalism. And that is not a film that wins or even sniffs best picture in 2012. So I think you can sort of see these changes over time that are really fascinating.

[David Chen]

Interesting. All right.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah, it was interesting that Once Upon a Time in Hollywood didn't win, right? Best Picture.

[Matt Goldberg]

Yeah, it was. Yeah.

[David Chen]

Well, those are a bunch of the best Picture winners over the years. Cavalcade, Cimarron, A Man for all seasons. And that is something that Matt Goldberg has been watching this week. Let's take a break for a sponsor. We'll be back with more what we've been watching right after this.

[Devindra Hardawar]

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[David Chen]

now your taxes are done for you by a TurboTax expert.

[Devindra Hardawar]

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[Matt Goldberg]

Visit TurboTax.com to learn more.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Only available with TurboTax experts. Real time updates only in iOS mobile app.

[David Chen]

All right, I want to highlight a new HBO original series called Neighbors. Have you guys heard about the show Neighbors?

[Matt Goldberg]

I've heard about it and what I've heard have been like, I don't know if that's the show for me because it would probably like make me furious.

[David Chen]

So this is a show that's created by Harrison Fishman and Dylan Refresh Redford, who according to the Wikipedia page, decided to make the series after spending the COVID 19 pandemic watching viral videos of Neighbors at war. End quote. The idea is every one of the six episodes of this series, it's a docu series, covers two separate groups of neighbors who are battling each Other because of some reason. So, like, so and so built a wall on her side of the thing, and I think the wall is ugly, and I'm going to petition the city to get the wall taken down, and inevitably, these people freaking hate each other. Right? But in addition to that. Right, That's. That's obvious. Right. It's kind of like, on its surface, every single character in this show feels like it came out of a Safdie movie. Right. And of course, I do want to mention Josh Safdie is a executive producer on the show, but you know how when you watch a Safdie brothers movie, like Uncut Gems or. Or Marty supreme, you know, like, they have really incredible casting. I was just like, wow, that. That is not a person I'd typically see in movies. It's like a kind of an. In appearance and temperament that is not a typical person I'd see in movies. That's kind of. Imagine if there's a documentary series diving into their backstories. That's essentially what this movie, this show, Neighbors, is. And so it starts with, oh, hey, these people are having a dispute over where the border between their houses is. And then you, like, dive into one of those people's lives, and it's like. And this person, by the way, is super into, you know, crystal reiki healing, you know, and also, like, has a whole business where they, like, take photos of dolls in pornographic poses. Right. It's like. It's like, okay, like, that's a really random assortment of characteristics. And then the other person has a similar random. And it's like, wow, we're really learning about America here. But, yeah, at the end of the day, this show is about how people in America are extremely weird, extremely combative, and basically home ownership, slash land ownership. I mean, the show kind of attributes the problems to that. But, yeah, homeownership is basically cooking people's brains is kind of what the show is saying. Like, if you own a house, you become so territorial, entitled, and irrational.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I can tell you. This happens with rentals, too. So, you know, I lived in New

[David Chen]

York for a long time that you essentially become insane. Right. Like, it's kind of the. The hypothesis behind this or the, you know, the driving force behind the show.

[Devindra Hardawar]

It's really like, hell is other people. The show.

[David Chen]

Yes. 100%. 100%. And it is super fascinating. It really feels like it sums up a lot of what makes America America right now. And so for that reason, I think it's worth checking out. I don't really like the style of the show. The whole show is cut like it's a trailer for the show itself. Like, just extremely frenetic. Cutting tons of music, like a Philip Glass style Koya Nisqatsi style style score blasting at you the whole time, and very disorienting in that way. But, yeah, other than that, I do think it's worth checking out. Matt, were you going to say.

[Matt Goldberg]

I was just going to say, you know, it's interesting because I do feel like it's one vision of America, not the. Not a total. Not a total vision of America. I haven't seen the show, but the idea that, like, you know, we can't stand each other. Our neighbors are actually our enemies. And yet, you know, if you look at this year alone, the number of people that came out to protest ice. To protest, to protect their neighbors, to deliver food to their neighbors who felt unsafe. I feel like there's a narrative about, like, we are. We. We're all weirdos and we're all against each other, and it's. It's, you know, we're all. It's every man for himself. And I think that is a narrative. But I also feel like there is more community than necessarily we let on, and it's more entertaining to watch conflict. But I don't know if that's necessarily the case.

[David Chen]

Yeah. Or. Or both things can be true.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah, both things can be true.

[David Chen]

Both things can be true. And America is a. My wife likes to say America is a cacophonous place.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yes.

[Matt Goldberg]

And it's a very big country.

[David Chen]

Yeah, it's a huge country. And a lot of people. And I think all the wonderful acts of kindness and compassion that you just mentioned live alongside just complete batshit decisions that the people on the show making against people that many of whom used to be their friends, like, oh, so and so, who lived across the way, used to be like my best friend. And now we're suing each other for hundreds of thousands of dollars or, you know, whatever. But, yeah, it's. It's. It's an interesting show. And if you want to learn more about just people, Neighbors on hbo Max or HBO is one thing I have to watch this week. All right. Different your hardware. Bring us home. I think you got a couple things to mention right before we.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah, a couple of things.

[David Chen]

Yeah.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I want to shout out Jim Jarmusch's latest film, Father, Mother, Sister, Brother. What a title. Very Jim Jarmusch title, I have to say. And this is. This is very much in the Jarmusch vein of, like, a Slow paced, methodical film about people having very like slightly off kilter conversations with each other. But this movie specifically about the sort of like strained relationship we adults have with their families, specifically their parents, specifically their siblings. And I thought it was just like really funny, kind of well observed. It is very much like you're spending time with these people and the jokes are kind of quiet and the situational comedy just kind of like slowly emerges. But if you are a fan of the Jarmish style and the Jarmish pace, which I like so much, I think you'll appreciate this. Like the. The first section is Adam Driver and Mayim Bialik as siblings visiting their estranged father, who is Tom Waits. Come on. That scene just builds itself in your head. So yeah, I think it's worth watching. It's funny in all the dramash ways. Like it's very unflashy. But I love the style of it. I love that he is out here just still making movies about like whatever interests him. And I think it's something we all experience as we get older too. It's like, you know, kind of stuck with these people. You have parents, you may have siblings and your relationships change and may strain and may grow in different ways as you get older. But this is a movie very much like just trying to kind of wrestle with that. I found it fascinating.

[Matt Goldberg]

Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. I was just gonna say that like, Jeremy is one of those filmmakers that I feel like I really need to like, like do like kind of like a run through of all of his stuff because I like, I really. I watched like down by Law like in college and didn't click with me, but I do really like Ghost Dog.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Ghost Dog is so big.

[Matt Goldberg]

I think Only Lovers Lost Alive is really interesting. So, yeah, he's a filmmaker. I need to. I need to like really just dive

[Devindra Hardawar]

into his, like his. It's just very hypnotic, slow paced stuff. I. I still kick myself because I loved Only Lovers Left Alive and for a couple screenings in New York at the RIP Sunshine Theater. Jarmusch was there with the band doing music for like, that was him. And they were just doing like a live set before or after screenings. Like, oh my God, I should have. I should have just been there. It's just one of those things. So I love Jarmusch. This is very much in his vein. This is probably not the one I'd recommend to, you know, make a Jarmish fan. Like, it is a very unflashy film. I would like. Only Lovers Left Alive is a Great onboard into what he does so well. Ghost Dog. Ghost Dog. Like, I remember people making fun of that movie when it came out, but it is, I think it's quietly great.

[Matt Goldberg]

Oh, it's, it's brilliant.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah. Even if he is, like trying to do like Slow Mo with a very, very minimal budget. Forest Whitaker is so good in that. It's also good.

[Matt Goldberg]

Yeah.

[David Chen]

So that's Father, Mother, Sister, Brother, Divinger. How'd you watch that movie?

[Devindra Hardawar]

It's on Criterion right now, actually, so. Criterion channel.

[David Chen]

Cool. And you got one other last thing to mention, right?

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah. I want to shout out Blades of the Guardians, which Jeff talked about a couple of weeks ago. This is the Yuen Woo Ping film, sort of like desert epic. It does kick butt. It kicks a lot of butts. Some great choreography here. I just want to shout that out. Jing Wu Star. It stars Jing Wu as Dao Ma, a sort of like reluctant hero. He's. He's a bounty hunter who is forced to do good. It's, it's, it's great. Like, it's really entertaining. Do you have to say this does feel like mid grade Yuen Woo Ping. Right. Especially after we're coming up, we're going to be talking about. We're talking. We're going to be talking about Kill Bill.

[David Chen]

We're going to.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I will always reference the Matrix. I will always reference some of his, like, best work, like Crouching Tiger. This is not up to that standard, but there's some really fun stuff here, especially if you like swords and sandal type action too. There's a bit of, like, there's some nods to Mad Max Fury Road in here. It's a lot of fun and it's great to see Jet Li move quite a bit. And you also don't have to wait long to see Jet Li in a major fight scene again. So that's cool. He's like one of the first scenes of this movie. So worth checking out. It may still be in theaters and so it'll certainly be on Video on Demand soon. Cool.

[David Chen]

That's Blades of the Guardians. I cannot wait to watch this one. After hearing Jeff's wild praise for this show. Sorry, this movie a couple weeks back. That is what we've been watching this week. All right, folks, let's do a few weekly plugs. We're going to do weekly plugs. Let's do weekly plus plugs, plugs, plugs, plugs, plugs. Weekly plugs. A part of the show each week where we plug something else. We've been making this week. I want to plug something Matt Goldberg made.

[Matt Goldberg]

It's like I'm getting like, I've got like double credit here.

[David Chen]

Yeah, you're getting two for one. Matt Goldberg published one of the very first reviews of Project Hail Mary to exist on the Internet over at the Decoding Everything newsletter, which you can subscribe to@decoding everything.com. it's free. Check it out. Decoding everything.com and mild spoiler. Meckleberg liked the movie. Big fan, big fan of Project Hail Mary. So I'm looking forward to discussing it. But in the meantime, if you want a thoughtful review, decoding everything.com is where you can check it out. David, your hardware, your weekly plug.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah, check out my coverage of all the new Apple stuff, adding gadgets. I reviewed the MacBook Neo, the new MacBook Pro, the M5 Max chip, that MacBook Neo. What a cutie patootie. What a great little laptop. And my daughter is playing with it now after I'm done with my review, I want her to torture that thing because basically it is the best $600 laptop I've ever seen. And Apple just really knocked this one out of the park. And it's really good for kids. So check out my full review. I talk about on the Engadget podcast as well.

[David Chen]

Matt Goldberg, your weekly plug.

[Matt Goldberg]

So I recently interviewed the director Lynn Littman and star Jane Alexander of the film Testament. I don't know if either of you have ever seen it. It is a very heavy film, but it is excellent. It's about a family dealing with the nuclear fallout, essentially, after there's a strike in the US and it came out in 1983, it is entering the Criterion Collection.

[David Chen]

Nice.

[Matt Goldberg]

And so they've been doing press for it, and so I interviewed them for Letterboxd over for their publication Letterboxd Journal. So keep a lookout for that.

[David Chen]

Very cool. Be sure to check it out. And I do want to say, you know, I actually have a question for you guys in the spirit of Kill Bill. Why can't Quentin Tarantino go on an airplane? Why can't Quentin Tarantino go on an airplane? Just keep that question in mind for the next few minutes. Anyway, I do also want to throw a shout out for our [e-mail] filmpodcast patreon.com filmpodcast where you can get ad free episodes, early access to episodes, and exclusive bonus after dark episodes every single week. We really appreciate everyone who supports [e-mail] filmpodcast of course, we never want anyone to donate if it in any way causes them financial hardship. You can only support us for free by becoming a reviewer of our podcast on Apple Podcasts. Wherever you get your podcast, leave a star rating for us. Leave a sentence of kind words for us. We would really, really appreciate that. That is going to bring us the end of weekly plugs. It's time to get to our review of Kill the Whole Bloody Affair. Once upon a time around the year two double aught three, there began a

[Matt Goldberg]

legend of bloody revolution.

[David Chen]

That was the warm up round. You and I have unfinished business, baby.

[Matt Goldberg]

You ain't kidding.

[David Chen]

That woman deserves her revenge. And we deserve to die. You didn't think it was gonna be that easy, did you?

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah, I kinda did.

[David Chen]

Because when the pilot mentions 30,000ft, he goes absolutely crazy.

[Matt Goldberg]

It's funny because he has an obvious fetish.

[David Chen]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yes. There you go. There you go. Nailed it. Nailed it. Welcome to the film cast review of Kill Bill the Whole Bloody Affair. I'm going to read the plot summary of this movie from IMDb. A female assassin seeks revenge on her former lover and squad members, all of whom left her for dead. End quote. It's been about 20 years since the original kill bill came out. 23 years or so since the original Kill Bills came out. Kill Bill Volume 1 and Volume 2 originally intended as a single film. The Weinstein Company or Miramax Harvey Weinstein suggested they split it up into two separate movies.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Double the money. Come on.

[David Chen]

Which. Which did end up, I think being the correct financial decision because each, each one individually ended up making over $100 million.

[Devindra Hardawar]

It made sense at the time. Even though that was an era of you had the good films that were split up like the Lord of the Rings things which were always planned to be separate. And also like the Matrix sequels.

[David Chen]

Right.

[Devindra Hardawar]

That was a weird time. Like let's release two major movies six months apart. Right. Continuing a single story.

[David Chen]

Yeah. But I remember having heard since. Since back then, dating back to that time.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yes.

[David Chen]

About the existence of this thing called Kill Bill the Whole Bloody Affair.

[Devindra Hardawar]

The idea being a cool news was all over it back then.

[David Chen]

There is this thing, a lot of sex offenders in this history of the Kill Bill the Whole Bloody Affair.

[Matt Goldberg]

Unusual.

[Devindra Hardawar]

About the usual amount.

[David Chen]

A shockingly large amount. But regardless, Kill Bill the Whole Bloody Affair. I'd heard rumors, right. Like that there's this cut of the film that joined the two halves together and would be the ideal way to see the film. And for a long time this cut was lost to the sands of time. Like I didn't know that we would ever actually.

[Devindra Hardawar]

He showed a cut in France. Was it at Cannes?

[David Chen]

At Cannes, right.

[Devindra Hardawar]

And that was his personal cut. It had burned in English subtitles, like French subtitles.

[David Chen]

And so this existed there for. Out there for a long time. And so people would occasionally catch glimpses of it. You'd hear tell, oh, so I saw Kill Bill, the Whole Bloody Affair at a special private screening in Quentin Tarantino's living room.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Whatever.

[Matt Goldberg]

It's showing at the New Beverly. And you only can see it if you're new near the New Beverly at this point.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah, it was a big Los Angeles. Los Angeles, like, claim to fame for a long time.

[David Chen]

So for a long time, very few people could actually see it. But then finally, Lionsgate put this together, where now the Kill Bill, the Whole Bloody Affair not only got a theatrical release in December, it is now out on Video on Demand in the United States, which is amazing. Everyone now has access to Kill Bill, the Whole Bloody Affair. So after decades and decades of waiting, the time has finally come.

[Matt Goldberg]

Now, we believe physical media. There will be a physical media release later this year.

[David Chen]

Yeah, I have not. Of course I'm going to be on it. I have not seen. Seen details of that have not been announced yet. So, like, I. I will believe it when I see.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Will be the sixth time I have bought the Kill Bills because I also just bought the. The Video on Demand. I have DVD, Blu Ray, 4K Blu Rays, both movies already.

[David Chen]

Yeah, God damn it. Same, same. So, anyway, I do want to say that we. We are going to assume that you have either seen the Kills Bill or don't care about the plots of these films. So we're going to spoil everything in both films. I.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Apparently, I spoiled it for a listener a couple of weeks ago when I mentioned a thing, I was like, I did not realize. Yeah, I realized that was spoilable. We are old.

[David Chen]

It's been over 20 years since this movie come out, and a lot of people. There's people who are listening to this podcast who did not exist when the original Kills Bill came out. So.

[Devindra Hardawar]

But also like that, that also shows that Kill Bill was not enough of a thing where people were like, I have to watch it as a budding cinephile. Right. Like, I'm very glad this revival is happening to convince people to watch Kill Bill.

[David Chen]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So you should assume we're going to spoil this from the beginning, and so they're going to be spoilers for the whole movie. But suffice to say, we believe it is a important work in the History of Cinema, and you should check it out. I want to start by talking about some of the big differences between Kill Bill, the Whole Bloody Affair, and the Kills Bill Volume one and two. Right. Which is Kills Bill Volume one and two. Those are. That's how people have been mostly able to see it. You can still buy them in that format on Video on Demand. So this is still available, but here are some of the big differences, as far as I can tell. Now, this is not every difference, but these are like the major ones, as far as I can tell. Okay, first of all, the opening no longer starts with a Klingon proverb. It actually is instead dedicated to legendary filmmaker Kinji Fukasaku.

[Devindra Hardawar]

RIP.

[David Chen]

There is an additional 5 minute or so long animation sequence which delves into O Ren Ishii's backstory. It shows her takedown of Pretty Ricky, the henchman of Boss Matsumoto who killed her parents. The House of Blue Leaves sequence is now in full color, and a lot of the music in that sequence has been removed. There's been music tweaks throughout the film. But, like, that's one of the big ones. The bride cuts off Julie Dreyfus second arm in the vehicle at the end

[Devindra Hardawar]

of Volume one, just for fun.

[David Chen]

The big one, in my opinion, is that there is no longer a cliffhanger at the end of volume one, which reveals that the bride's daughter is still alive. And there's an intermission, obviously. And then in volume two, shorter intermission

[Devindra Hardawar]

on the video On Demand, by the way, it's like three minutes long, whereas

[David Chen]

in the theater version is 15 minutes.

[Devindra Hardawar]

It's the full 50 minutes. You go take a break. Go get some snacks. Yeah.

[David Chen]

In volume two of the original, there was a preamble where the bride recaps where the story is until this point, and that is gone in this Kill Bill, the Whole Bloody affair. And then finally, and most controversially, and trust me, we will discuss this at the very, very end of the credits. There is a short film that is animated completely using Fortnite graphics.

[Devindra Hardawar]

No, no, there isn't.

[David Chen]

No, there isn't. That tells the story. I know it sounds like I'm having a stroke, but it tells the story of Gogo Yubari's sister attempting to kill the bride in between a couple chapters.

[Devindra Hardawar]

You know, if you don't acknowledge it, it doesn't exist.

[David Chen]

Yeah. So we will.

[Devindra Hardawar]

That is a great way.

[David Chen]

We will get to it. We will get to it. All right, so those are some of the big differences in Kill Bill between Kill Bill Volumes one and two and the Whole Bloody Affair. All that said, Matt Goldberg, you know, you recently revisited this film as the Whole Bloody Affair. I am curious, what was the experience like of watching it all together for you?

[Matt Goldberg]

I was really overwhelmed by it. In a good way. It is. I'm like, you, I was like, you know, I saw these films in theaters as separate films. I know them, I've revisited them. And yet the Whole Bloody Affair was just out of reach, just beyond the horizon in Los Angeles at special screenings. And so for it to have this nationwide big theatrical release, I called up my friend and I'm like, hey, we're going to this. And it's like, we're gonna get home past midnight and we are too old for this, but we are gonna watch this long movie. And I'm glad that we did because not only does it sweep you along, but it still feels unique in Tarantino's filmography for it to be just sort of almost like. It's weird to call it like a balls to the wall action film, but I think it has just. It leans more into that kind of direction than almost anything else he's done. Even though there's violence obviously in all of his movies, the style here, the fact that he could sort of stage that incredible fight at the House of Blue Leaves and that you feel it. And honestly, I'm sort of torn back and forth on like, did I like it more in color? Did I like it more the original black and white, which they to get that R rating back in the day. But it's fascinating choices. The one choice that I think is the best, though, is removing the cliffhanger that her daughter is alive. Because as a two part film, it's like, ooh, a cliffhanger. Ooh, I'll come back in six months. But if you watch it as a complete narrative, that moment, and I think if you try to go in with the mentality of someone who has never seen these movies and doesn't know how they're going to unfold, and that child shows up right when she's about to. When the bride is about to kill Bill, that is mind blowing. And it completely changes the complexion of the film. Everything that's come before, everything that's about to happen, if you don't know that BB is alive. So I really liked that change a lot. And I think it really made the film feel fresh, not only in terms of, oh, this big fight scene's now in color, but to really change the text in a really fascinating way.

[David Chen]

Agreed on all Counts. Matt, thanks for sharing. Devindra Hardware. You have revisited this movie a couple times, I think.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I mean, I've seen 1 and 2 dozens of times at this point. So I know these movies inside and out. And I'll tell you, Matt, I was really struggling with that removal of the, of the tease because to me it was such a, it was such a well deployed drop in the first movie. And I have that memory of it and we all waited for it. Like it just like it left you

[David Chen]

leaving the theater buzzing of like, oh my gosh. And also, by the way, he could

[Matt Goldberg]

have easily put it in this version before an intermission.

[David Chen]

It still would have worked in this version, right?

[Devindra Hardawar]

It still would have worked. But I will tell you, there is something different. And I'm, I guess turning about how I felt about this initially, because the thing is, when you are stuck there for four plus hours watching this thing as a single narrative, then yes, it does work differently. And that was, that's probably a smart move. There are other things like I'm kind of iffy about, but yeah, I agree, I agree. Take it out. Make it especially for somebody new coming in if they manage not to know that spoiler. It does hit harder because then you're spending so much time with these characters and the movie is very much one thing. Then yeah, it does kind of work. But I maintain, like having, you know, watching this again at home, my home theater, these two movies, these are, this is one of the best films ever made. And it, it still feels so different than how action movies are done today. We were in that era where everyone's like, oh, this Yuen Wu Ping guy, he's doing great work. Let's get him in everything. So he did Matrix, his team did Crouching Tiger. Like his choreography, it was everywhere. And I don't think we've gotten an action movie that really still does it this well. Again, like the John Wick movies do it. But I think of the House of Blue leaves sequence and like that just goes on and on and on. And there are different setups to it. There are different ways it looks. It kind of shifts different levels. I love like that moment where, you know, they're in the small room and it just becomes this like avant garde stage where it's just like the silhouettes of the fighting.

[David Chen]

Right.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Doesn't work at all. It doesn't make sense. But as a part of a scene, it's a great way to kind of change things up and just change the visuals. This film just really showed like what Tarantin could do as an action director in that scene in particular. We don't have this. We don't have this. John Wick movies will go on and on with extended set pieces, but they're often changing locations where the set piece will be. It's not as many people. Right. It's maybe a handful of people with an extended staircase. The staircase sequence from. Was it four or three?

[Matt Goldberg]

Four.

[Devindra Hardawar]

It's stuff like that. But it doesn't feel as like you have such a big crowd. You're detailing so much choreography. That thing took forever to shoot. I remember reading about them just trying to make that whole scene. Scene that still goes down as I think one of the best action sequences ever made in this entire. Like this. These movies are why I love watching movies in theaters. You know, they are visceral. They tell character driven stories through action. It is very well written. Even though it's stylized like in his like cadence. There's a love of cinema here, a love of genre. And I also think back to the way that, you know, you know, what makes Tarantino special is that so many elements of the Kill Bills, the, the songs and stuff coming in from it, like battle for honor against humanity is referenced in the freaking Super Mario Brothers movie. Like the, the pop culture impact of all of these things is undeniable.

[David Chen]

Yeah.

[Devindra Hardawar]

So yeah, I think that just shows like how powerful Kill Bill is. I also maintain that Uma Thurman wish the Oscars like were in a place to give her some love for genre work. Because the work she does in this movie, not only is she doing a lot of the physical work, yes, she has a stunt double, but she did a lot of the action. She did a lot of training for this. But the dramatic work, like her waking up and finding out her baby is gone, her scene where she is crushed or she is in the coffin just trying to get out that sense of panic in there.

[David Chen]

She's doing her discovering that her baby is alive. Right. And that horrible sequence, all of it is a generationally good performance in my opinion.

[Devindra Hardawar]

And it should have. It should. It deserves something. And then because she got injured after this and also soured their relationship too, that affected her work after. So there is a downside to this and I'm glad he is sort of. I think he's sort of apologized. I don't know if that's enough. But it does make me sad. It makes me sad that this was such a great moment for Uma Thurman. We were just not in a place as a society and certainly not Holland, not the. You know, the academy was not in a place to recognize what a tremendous performance this was. It's just. It makes me sad too, because she deserves so much for this movie.

[Matt Goldberg]

Yeah. I think you also make a great point about, like, when you said, like, it's this kind of action, I'm like, that is because what makes it different. And I would say that level of conscious style that we are breaking rally that, yeah, she's gonna run up a banister as part of this fight. And I think the key difference between, like, John Wick, or I was gonna say, like, oh, the Raid movies have really good fights and they do, but they're very stunt driven. They're about the impact. They're sort of constructed as fights in order to win the fight. Whereas Kill Bill is sort of. And these other films, Matrix, Crouching Tiger, are about the grace of the martial arts and really letting you sort of swim in that rather than just getting to the kill.

[David Chen]

On that note, I mean, I saw this movie in theaters, this whole bloody affair, and I was completely blown away. I think this is one of the greatest films of all time. It needs to be watched, it needs to be studied. People should check this out for sure. So, like that. That is just like the top line. Uma Thurman is incredible. Like you have said. She is not only acting in incredible. He's not delivering an incredible performance emotionally, but also convincingly doing a lot of the physically challenging stuff in this. In this film. Right.

[Devindra Hardawar]

And so she's a very tall person. It is very hard for tall people to do, like, extensive martial arts like that too.

[David Chen]

So, yeah, yeah, it's amazing what she does. And honestly, you know, I was reminded of the comps I was thinking about when I was watching this. Were movies like the Matrix. Were movies like Mad Max, Fury Road, where this looks like it was hell to film.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Right.

[David Chen]

To get this together. And the vast scope and ambition of it makes it all the more impressive that they're able to pull it off for a budget of I think around, like $30 million. It's either $30 million for one or, you know, for each part. I don't know. Either way, it looks incredible. It's. You know, to my eye, the. The screen looks a little bit, like, fuzzy because I think it was shot in 2K. There's no 4K upresting of this movie. I don't think Quentin Tarantino's. Despite what happens in the credits, he's not going to use A.I.

[Devindra Hardawar]

hey, man, they shot that. They showed this in 70 millimeter in theater. So I don't know. I don't know. I thought this was 70 millimeter worthy, apparently.

[David Chen]

So. Yeah, well, yeah, anyway, so overall, it was an incredible, breathtaking experience to watch this movie in a theater as a whole. And I can't recommend it highly enough. I think when I first watched these movies, I didn't really get what he was trying to do.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Right.

[David Chen]

I watched Volume One and I thought that was amazing.

[Devindra Hardawar]

And oh my gosh, these conversations at this time, like, at the time these movies came out, it is wild. Nearly 25 years later, we are still talking about the Kill Bills together.

[David Chen]

And very volume one is like, oh, this Volume One. I was like, blown away, but it's incredible. The House of Blue Leaves. Oh, my God. The fact that Quentin Tarantino can direct martial arts style action competently. Right. He delivers a very extremely competent martial arts. And by the way, basically never did it again. Like, you know, he's like, okay, I've already done that. I don't need to do it.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Django has some action he never quite does.

[David Chen]

I'm not saying he never did action scene, but he's never done really scenes of the style as they appear in this film again.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah. People are out here being like, oh, man. Paul Thomas Anderson is directing Action. He did a really nice car chase, guys, but he didn't do anything on

[Matt Goldberg]

the level of this.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Sorry, sorry.

[David Chen]

So. So I was blown away by part one, and then part two just felt so sedate by comparison. Right.

[Devindra Hardawar]

It's a western. Yeah.

[David Chen]

And that's. That's the thing is like, as now watching it as a whole, it's really clear. It's Quentin Tarantino showing you what his inspirations are.

[Matt Goldberg]

Oh, yeah.

[David Chen]

Like, hey, I. I love westerns. I love training montages. I love, you know, action scenes where people get their limbs chopped off. I love, you know, like all these. And it's like each chapter is kind of its mini. Like, I love police procedurals. Like, each chapter is kind of its mini play. It's mini story. It's mini genre pastiche. Right. And. And I really appreciated that more this time around. And. And like, now that I have like kind of no real expectations going into it, it's like, oh, yeah. Like, you know, in general, I expect an action movie to have a build, to be like, okay, we're gonna put like, you know, small action scene in the beginning and the medium action scene in the middle. And then you save your big spectacular one for the end. And I was confused at the time of why Volume two.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Purposefully went up that in many different ways. Yeah, yeah. Or flips it around. I mean.

[David Chen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he flips it around.

[Devindra Hardawar]

What you expect.

[David Chen]

Exactly, exactly. And part two, right. I think is. Is great. And it's just very, very different than part one, right. And it is. I think of it less as, hey, this is a conventional action movie with a conventional action movie build and more like each chapter is its own. Quentin Tarantino giving us a tour of his mind palace, right? And I really appreciate and enjoy it for that reason.

[Devindra Hardawar]

And kind of a tour of cinema too, right? Like, that's the history of cinema. It's not just what he loves, but it is kind of the history of cinema at times. Here, the anime sequence, this was just locked away in a drawer for 20 years or so. Like an incredible. I love the extended anime sequence. Like they got production ig to animate that thing. The, I believe the animation director or character designer, Samurai Champloo, like, directed all that stuff. Imagine making something like that. I love that whole sequence. It's just cut out of the movie and then people can never see it again. Especially for animation, which takes forever to storyboard and produce and actually animate. That was just sitting there. So I think if anything, go, you go see this because I think the extended sequence, the extended anime sequence is fantastic. And I brought this up before. Like, it is so much more reminiscent of like classic 90s action anime. I'm thinking of stuff like Kite by Yasuomi Umetsu, like just crazy gory graphic animation. That whole elevator sequence. Yes, my goodness, so good.

[Matt Goldberg]

I mean, one of the things that really jumped out at me is that, you know, you see this in 2003, 2004, and Tarantino has always sort of. His brand has been like, I am the keeper of all the cinematic knowledge of like, exploitation and like B movie cinema. Stuff that he saw in like grindhouse theaters and on VHS and stuff that was a lot harder to come by. And in the last 20 plus years, a lot of stuff has found its way into physical media, into streaming, so that now an audience can, you know, he's creating this pastiche and it's a lot easier to see his sources. So I remember obviously, while it was possible to see Lady Snowblood at the time of the film's release in 03 04, it's a lot easier to see it now. And so when I come back to it as the whole blade and frame, like, oh, he really took a lot from Lady Snowblood, which is fine. It's an amazing film. But I find more rewarding these days. And this goes for his whole filmography. If you watch Django and you can see all the spaghetti Westerns he's pulling from that, you are sort of seeing his work through now. The films that are. Have a. It's easier to find the source material. And I find that really exciting in a way that it was neat at the time. It's like, oh, it's a pastiche. But I can't find these. And now you can.

[David Chen]

Yeah. The world of media has changed a lot since then. Right. And we can more easily see some of his inspirations for the film. So that is definitely, definitely something that's been. That's been pretty cool. Here's what I think might be useful or fun to do is let's just talk about some of these changes and talk about, like, whether or not we thought that they were good changes or what the effect of these changes were. Right. So, I mean, I am really curious about this Klingon proverb change. It used to start with, like, revenge is a dish best served cold. Old Klingon proverb. And I wonder, like, part of me wonders, like, if, you know, Quentin Tarantino is a much younger man back then. He thought that was like, hey, I was just kind of like, yeah, let's throw in a Klingon proverb in there. And now he's like, this. This film is dedicated to legendary filmmaker Kenji Fukusaka. You know who. The. The director who made movies like Battle Royale, which I think is.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah.

[David Chen]

Like.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah.

[David Chen]

What'd you say?

[Devindra Hardawar]

Where he found the Go Go.

[David Chen]

Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Like, Gogo Yubari, as a character would not exist without. Without Kinji Fukasaku, probably. So, yeah. Anyway, you know, just.

[Devindra Hardawar]

He's an older man now. He knows. He knows. Like, you know, what I have.

[David Chen]

I had.

[Devindra Hardawar]

This is an important space. What drives this movie. It's not Only a man now.

[Matt Goldberg]

And he's not talking about Paul Dano and Matthew Lillard. He's really respectful.

[David Chen]

Well, he's. Why does it make sense to throw Klingon proverbs in there anymore? It doesn't make any sense. We gotta. You know, he's like, I'm gonna, like, dedicate this to one of my heroes instead.

[Devindra Hardawar]

So he does take a lot from Kinji Fukasak, so.

[David Chen]

Yeah.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah, totally makes sense.

[David Chen]

You've already talked about the anime sequence. I. I think it's great. It's a great sequence. I. I also, like.

[Devindra Hardawar]

That was a plot. That was a plot hole. The entire time, by the way, the person who actually killed her father.

[David Chen]

Right. Not plot hole, but like something missing.

[Devindra Hardawar]

It was a thing. It was missing. It was clearly missing.

[David Chen]

It's a resolution that was missing from the. From the original. The House of Blue leaves sequence being in color now, what do we think of this? I. I think it looks cool. I think.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah.

[David Chen]

That the reason I never liked it in black and white was just because it felt like a compromise. Like my understand. My understanding is it was a compromise to get the movie an R rating and instead of NC17 because it was so bloody.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah.

[David Chen]

And so they're like, what if we just do everything in black and white? I don't.

[Devindra Hardawar]

It did look cool at the time in black and white. Like it was that specific moment of the eyeball.

[David Chen]

Yeah, the eyeball pluck. Yeah, that was cool.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Well, no, it's the eyeball pluck. That's the specific moment where it clicked over.

[David Chen]

And then later on there's a close up on her eyes and then she like blinks and then it goes back into color. Yeah, but. So I thought it was fine the way it was before, but I didn't like the idea that he changed it just because of the mpa. Like that it was not his original vision. And so it's like he changed it because of the mpa. So I'm glad that that has been undone.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Sure.

[David Chen]

Cutting off Julie Dreyfus second arm in the car. Which, by the way, apparently explains why in the original cuts, Julie Dreyfus rolls down the hill with no. With no arms.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah.

[David Chen]

And I just never realized, oh, she's missing both arms in that scene.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I love that moment too, by the way. It's not, it's. It's very. She's very considerate. Arm slicer. Right. She's not just like throwing her down the hill. There's an emergency room right there. They're going to get saved. They'll be fine.

[David Chen]

They'll be fine.

[Devindra Hardawar]

It's very considerate.

[Matt Goldberg]

She needs a message to get delivered. If she reads out that message is not going to get delivered.

[Devindra Hardawar]

This is a pre smartphone era. Right. Like, this is how we set messages.

[Matt Goldberg]

Text.

[David Chen]

It does add a kind of layer of cruelty to the bride's actions.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah.

[David Chen]

In a way that wasn't there, apparently. By the way, I read about this. Like, I don't know any details about this, but apparently when she kills Buck in like an original cut, that's not even part of this whole bloody affair. Like that killing was apparently much more graphic.

[Matt Goldberg]

Well, she never kills Buck.

[David Chen]

What do you mean? She slams his head in the foot.

[Devindra Hardawar]

She squishes his head.

[David Chen]

She destroys him in the door.

[Matt Goldberg]

Oh, I'm thinking of. I'm thinking of Buddy.

[David Chen]

You're thinking Bud.

[Matt Goldberg]

Bud, not Buck.

[David Chen]

Yeah, the person who assaults her.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Assaults her.

[Matt Goldberg]

Yes, she does.

[David Chen]

Kill the hell out. Well, she's comatose, Buck. Yeah, yeah. And. But apparently, like, there was a cut of that scene of him. Her killing him. That was, like, much more upsetting. And they just didn't show because it's like, oh, well, like, it will, like, kind of lose, like, you'll kind of, like, she'll kind of lose people from her side in so, like, the fear is. It was so graphic that it would like people. And it's like, maybe this is also part of that is like, she kind of needlessly tortures this woman again, you know, even though the woman is also complicit. And it's all deserved.

[Devindra Hardawar]

It's all.

[David Chen]

Absolutely.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[David Chen]

But. But anyway, I guess it's interesting that, like, this is, like, probably the most villainous thing that she does in the movie, you know, is like, it's not

[Devindra Hardawar]

because she Kill the moment where she's like, leave your limbs. They are mine now. That's pretty villainous. Those belong to me.

[David Chen]

Fair enough.

[Devindra Hardawar]

That's pretty much like, you know, I love the camera pan to just bloody floor, like, limbs everywhere. Julia Lee Dreyfus character just still sitting there because she's the only one, I think, dressed in all black. So it's pretty cruel.

[David Chen]

I did like that they removed some of the music from the House of Blue Leaf scene. Like, I do think, like, letting it. Letting the sound design take over there makes a lot of sense. And you. And you appreciate, I think, the work on the screen a lot more.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Chen]

We've already talked about the cliffhanger being removed. I will just say that. Yeah, I like. I like this. I think it's an extremely cohesive whole now, where it works for this, it works for this. And then she gets to the end of the movie and she is stunned when she finds that her daughter is alive. And I do think that that moment works really well because of Uma Thurman's Thurman's incredible acting.

[Devindra Hardawar]

But it's also. It's one of those things where it's like, oh, that moment now is trapped in amber. That moment that we had where it's like, oh, waiting between these movies, knowing that cliffhanger and having that feeling. You can still watch Volume one and two separately. And Try to do that experience for somebody if you want, but I think anybody going to kill Bill now will just go straight to this.

[David Chen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this. This is the way that you. You are intended to experience it, which is you are supposed to experience her surprise with her at the very end of the film.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yes.

[David Chen]

So those are the big changes. But of course. Guys, we have to talk about what happens after the credits.

[Devindra Hardawar]

No, no, we don't.

[Matt Goldberg]

Yes, we do.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I refuse to watch it. So, I don't know.

[David Chen]

You guys, tell me, did you not see it?

[Devindra Hardawar]

No, I didn't watch it.

[Matt Goldberg]

Oh, it's so much worse than you're imagining.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah, that's what it. That's what I'm like. I know what this is going to be. I don't need my Fortnite bullshit here. Like, do not ruin this moment. You just. This is right after one of the greatest cinematic experiences you can have right now, and you give me Fortnite slop. No, thank you.

[David Chen]

To its credit. To its credit. Okay, first of all, they put this at the very fucking end of, like, literally, I'm watching the movie in theater. Everyone had left.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah, in the theater. I didn't even know that was there at the end of the theater. So.

[David Chen]

So there's all the credits. There's even this little blooper, like a blooper of. Of Uma Thurman pulling out the guy's eye, and it shows. You know, it's like, oh, let's do it again. It's like. So I'm like, oh, you know, I had heard about this Fortnite thing, and I was staying through the. I was like, is this. Is this Fortnite thing even going to happen? Like, I don't even know because I'd already been there for four and a half hours. I'm going to read from Wikipedia. The Lost Chapter. Yuki's revenge. In 2025, a short animation made by Tarantino and Epic Games in collaboration with the Third Floor, titled the Lost Chapter, Yuki's Revenge was announced first debuting in Fortnite. Yuki's Revenge is based on an early draft that included a chapter after the confrontation with Vernita in which the bride has a gunfight with Gogo, Yubari's vengeful sister Yuki, voiced by Miu Ishidate Roberts. It was originally cut because it would have made the film overlong and added $1 million to the budget. The entirety of the animation was built in Unreal Engine 5 using Fortnite models, with Thurman reprising her role in Voice acting and motion capture. Zoe Bell performing the stunts. Motion capture. And Bill being voiced by Tarantino himself, replacing Carradine, who died in 2009. The short premiered in Game on November 30, 2025, and later uploaded on Fortnite's official YouTube channel on December 4, a day before the theatrical release of Tarantino's film. The Lost Chapter was also shown as part of the theatrical run of Kill Bill the Whole Bloody Affair after the closing credits, end quote. So that is a background of what happened there. And, Matt Goldberg, why don't you start. Tell us what your feeling was watching Nana did. Had you seen the Last Chapter, Yuki's Revenge, before the Whole Bloody Affair?

[Devindra Hardawar]

No.

[Matt Goldberg]

No. And I went in be like, oh, is this in the middle of the movie? This must be an important thing to really add it in. And we're sitting through the whole credits. I guess it's not that important. Oh, are they even going to show it? No, they showed it and, yeah, they showed it. I think one of the first questions I. One of the things like, that's in my mind, like, why would you do this?

[Devindra Hardawar]

Why?

[Matt Goldberg]

Why would you do this? And my thinking is, is that prints and advertising cost money. And they're like, well, maybe. Maybe Epic ponied up some dough to basically do.

[David Chen]

I hope it was in the many millions of dollars. I hope it was worth it.

[Matt Goldberg]

That is one advertorial. Because it's also, like, it's not like. I think when you read the scripts, it's like, oh, it's from an early draft. It's like, yeah, it's from early draft. And they made some little updates. Like, all these Fortnite characters are in it. Like, the banana guy is in this little thing. And I'm like, oh, great.

[David Chen]

Okay, so. So, Matt, I'm sorry to. I think I would have been okay if it was like, an actual artistic piece that was just happened to be done using Fortnite animation.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Like a red versus blue type of deal.

[David Chen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Machinima or something like that. Like, I think I would have been okay. Like, oh, he just. He's just using new tools to try to tell the story. Instead, it feels like, number one, clearly a Fortnite advertisement because there's times when the camera focuses on Fortnite characters for no reason at all. Yeah, right. And number two, it doesn't appear to take place in, like, Earth physical reality. Right. Like, it takes place in Fortnite reality because, like, people get shot, but they. They have, like, the pixels and shit. Like, you know, and so it's not like they're like bleeding and doing things that you would do.

[Matt Goldberg]

Like Kill Bill.

[David Chen]

Yeah, it doesn't look like Kill Bill. So those are the big sins of Yuki's revenge for me. Anyway, sorry, I know I completely derailed your conversation.

[Matt Goldberg]

No, no, I mean, I think everything you're saying is correct. It's just such a weird kind of like, the only way I can understand it to watch it is like, oh, time to pay the bills. Like, that's it. Because it's not like. It's not. Especially when you have, like, you know, defenders. You pointed out, like, that whole, like, the scene where they kill Pretty Ricky. It's like, been sitting in a drawer. It's like, yes, this is something that was worth. This is like an added scene you've prodded back into the film. I think it adds something to the story. It's really interesting. It's beautiful. And it's like. And you're gonna say, like, we've also added this scene and it's garbage. Like, no, it's not a real scene. And so, like, of course you can skip it. It's like, I mean, congratulations on getting the money to, you know, re release this film. If that's the cost of it, so be it. But I don't have to be like, ooh, Fortnite is cool now.

[Devindra Hardawar]

It's. It's especially for Kill Bill, which is a celebration of things like some of the greatest pop culture itself became such an influential tome of pop culture that has still. It's still influencing things to this day. And you stick a fucking Fortnite animation in there. Like, So I refused. When they initially launch this thing, I was like, I'm not going to watch this. I don't need to watch this. Even if it's the end of something I own, I'm not going to watch it. You know why? Because there are other deleted scenes for Kill Bill. They were just floating around there. The Michael J. White scene, which I think I thought

[Matt Goldberg]

they were going to add that back in.

[David Chen]

Yeah. Which is not in this version of the film.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I can understand not putting it in the movie, like, in the movie proper, because you want to maintain the mystery of Bill. And also, how good is David Carradine? Tarantino knows how to use his actors. The thing I liked about Carradine is he's always been this really charming guy with this really particular voice. These movies just used him so perfectly.

[Matt Goldberg]

And he brought all his kung fu baggage to it.

[Devindra Hardawar]

All of his kung fu baggage. It's the idea of David Carradine that we all grew up with or have watched on TV and in films. Like, only Tarantino can do that. To then end up in a place where it's like, oh, also, he shot this thing with Michael J. White, which is a great fight scene, too. Great choreography within there. I love that whole scene that could have been your end of credits thing. Like, hey, this. Oh, by the way, the side story happened.

[Matt Goldberg]

But now it's like, but don't worry. Don't worry, David. We're gonna respect your memory by making you a cartoon man who, like, is kind of in this thing.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Unforgivable.

[David Chen]

Yeah. I will say that my day was worse having watched the Fortnite short. But I think it does say something that he puts it at the very, very end of the film. Like, it's like he's almost like he's ashamed of it. Like.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah.

[David Chen]

Because if he was really proud of it, it would be. It's a chapter that is. Could easily fit between other chapters in the movie. Right. Timing wise. Like, you know, it could be chapter six instead of the current chapter six. Right. And so the fact that he's like, we're gonna just squirrel it away at the very end, I think shows how

[Devindra Hardawar]

cool would have that. That has been, by the way, if it was like, a dedicated. Okay, we did anime 2D animation. What if we do, like, modern CG animation within the Kill Billy universe? What would that look like and fit it in there?

[David Chen]

That's fine.

[Devindra Hardawar]

This whole thing feels like the difference between making this Final Cut or the Whole Bloody Affair. A limited theatrical release or a wide theatrical release. And they. It was pretty wide. Right? Like, it got in a lot of theaters from what I could tell.

[David Chen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I. I was very disappointed also. By the way, the clearest sign that this was just some bastardized version of Kill Bill is Uma Thurman. It's wild that they got Uma Thurman to come back. That's cool. I'm glad. I hope Uma Thurman got paid money because, like, that's the one thing good that might have come out of this, is because she deserves to get more recognition and compensation for what she did.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Do you know the Uma Thurman history tied to our college, Dave?

[David Chen]

A little bit. A little bit.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I mean, her dad was a philosophy professor at Amherst, so that's why her name is Uma. But also, apparently, she was known for sunbathing topless in the. In the front, like, which ended up being the Philosophy building, Grosvenor House, I think. But she was known for doing that on our campus. So, Uma Thurman, I don't know. We love you at Amherst.

[David Chen]

Anyway, in the Fortnite short film, Uma Thurman's character, Beatrix Kiddo, is still driving around the Pussy Wagon during this time in the story. But because it's Fortnite and it's for kids, it's not called the Pussy Wagon.

[Matt Goldberg]

Four kids.

[David Chen]

It has a little emoji of a cat wagon.

[Devindra Hardawar]

So it's Cat wagon.

[Matt Goldberg]

Good. Now it's okay.

[Devindra Hardawar]

It's a Meow Meow Wagon.

[David Chen]

And that's when I was like, wow, you have really sold out, you know? You know, guys, I think we need to bring back the notion of selling out as a bad thing, because we've

[Devindra Hardawar]

gone so far officially a good thing. It's now the thing you must do to survive.

[David Chen]

That's what I'm saying is like, we need to bring it back. We need to bring back the shame to selling out. I'm going to say this, by the way, so going back to the film, the only other thing that I observed. I know this is very obvious at the time. I'm not saying this is like a huge insight or anything like that, but it really did occur to me how much of a creep Bill is in this version. You know, like, watching it all, like, where he's. He not only has a group of assassins, he's also sleeping with all the women assassins in the group. And not only sleeping with all the women assassins, he's sleeping potentially with the woman's assassin's assistance because, like, they're all

[Devindra Hardawar]

part of the group.

[David Chen]

You kind of get a sense that he's like, you know, he and Julia Louis. Sorry, Julie Dreyfus. Have, like, some kind of romantic relationship.

[Devindra Hardawar]

You know, Homer, there's a lot you can do with multiple, you know, assassins in your harem. You know, there's more things you can do.

[David Chen]

What kind of messed up assassination squad is? It feels more like a cult to me.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I think they're having a good time over there.

[David Chen]

Yeah, it feels more like a culture to me than like a. A well organized business enterprise, you know, is. Is all I have to say.

[Matt Goldberg]

How do you make money, Bill?

[David Chen]

Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I want to take time to also just throw some love to every single person in this movie, by the way, like, Vivica Fox, that first fight scene. Yeah, I remember that moment where, you know, we get the intro, we get the. The Nancy Sinatra song. Like, what is this. What is also that whole sequence? The gunshot to the head, straight to, like.

[David Chen]

That's so my most masochistic. Extremely.

[Devindra Hardawar]

It's your gunshot. That opening fight scene. No introduction to the characters. Nothing else. I love how economical his storytelling is here. Because what happened? She was shot in the head, left for dead. Where is she now? She's somewhere else. A big siren goes off, like, that's one of the persons. That's one of the people that killed her. Fight and you fight. That's it. No words exchange. Nothing. And then you have the break for the kid and everything. And then you can fit in the backstory. But I think that whole first scene shows, like, how much he realized, like, this is storytelling through action. This isn't just people talking. And the people talking is very good. But storytelling through action. Daryl Hannah, everyone. Sonny Chiba. I cherish the Sonny Chiba scenes. Especially, like, the early restaurant scene in this. Like, he just. He knows. He knows exactly what he's doing. He's funny, he's charismatic. That shift, when she says Hattori Hanzo and you hear the guy in the background, his assistant, drop the cup, all those little bits. Just, like. It's just so, so good. So I want to say everyone's on their A game here. Yeah.

[David Chen]

You know, the one that really got to me this time, that really affected me was the Michael Madsen storyline.

[Devindra Hardawar]

We've talked about this.

[David Chen]

Yeah. And specifically, like, he had a. He had a very sad life. Right.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Bud has resigned himself to a shitty existence because he knows how much harm he has caused in the world. So, like, yes, he will do a shitty job. He will let a dumbass boss just talk down to him. He will be. He will be on the lowest part of society because he chooses to be.

[David Chen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's obviously very powerful, but also very formidable. Like, the bride underestimates him.

[Matt Goldberg]

Him.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Yeah.

[David Chen]

And that's how she. He gets a jump on her. Right.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Well, he's the only one that can actually get to it.

[Matt Goldberg]

What you were saying about, you know, about, like, how it becomes a Western in, like, Part two is a Western or Volume two is a Western. And, like, Bud is the retired gunslinger. He is. Like, I can still shoot. I know. I don't want to.

[David Chen]

Yeah, yeah. And then it's just a really interesting detail of him lying to Bill and saying he sold the Hattori Hanzo sword.

[Matt Goldberg]

Yeah.

[David Chen]

Right. And then you find. And they never, like, remark on it again. Right. Like, it's never brought up again in the film. But she does then find the Hattori Hanzo sword in his house. And you realize, oh, he lied earlier when he was talking to his brother Bill about the sword. And it's like, I love.

[Devindra Hardawar]

And it makes you think action in that scene, by the way, too, you sold Hattori Hanzo, so. Yeah.

[David Chen]

Right. And it's like, why would he lie about that? And it just makes you kind of try to fill in all these blanks that the movie just leaves open for you to do. There's no definitive explanation, as far as I know.

[Devindra Hardawar]

He has so much pathos as a character, too. His bit from the trailer, it's like, this woman deserves her revenge. We deserve to die. It is an acceptance, a fatalism of the shitty life he's led and all the bad things he's done. But at the same time, he needs money.

[Matt Goldberg]

He's not gonna go quietly.

[David Chen]

Yeah.

[Devindra Hardawar]

He's not going to go quiet.

[David Chen]

Yeah. What was your. Did you guys have an interpretation of why exactly Dara Hannah's character killed Michael Madsen? I know she says in the movie, she says, like, basically, you deprive me of the ability to. To take on the bride. Like, that's. That is the implication as to why she.

[Devindra Hardawar]

I think that's. She's.

[David Chen]

I didn't know if there's any. If you had any other interpretation as to why she kills him.

[Matt Goldberg]

I think thematically, when you reach the second half, Daryl Hannah's character, who's. What's her name? Name. It escapes me at this moment. But anyway, she is the representation of El Driver. El Driver. Thank you. Is sort of the dark mirror of the bride. She is sort of that sadistic lust for violence. She is without control. Head to the one eye, she's already half blind. And the way that she goes about it as sort of. I think what the film is trying to do in its second half is to say that the bride is not just all consuming violence, that she is not just this whirlwind of destructive power. And yet in order to be more than that, she has to conquer that. Hence their fight in the trailer where she leaves El completely blind. So I feel like that is. That's sort of my interpretation.

[Devindra Hardawar]

She kills, but she's still alive, too. Yeah, she's out there.

[Matt Goldberg]

Exactly.

[Devindra Hardawar]

She can be a blind swordswoman if they actually come back to this story somehow. Yeah.

[Matt Goldberg]

So I feel like her killing bud is sort of an expression of the darkest elements of Beatrix Kiddo for sure.

[David Chen]

Interesting, interesting.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Daryl Hannah, who is now married to Neil Young. Congratulations. Neil Young. Amazing, Amazing win for him.

[David Chen]

Yeah. So the only other thing I wanted to mention is, I guess, you know, I am. When I'm watching this, I'm kind of revisiting a lot of some of my initial things. I got hung up on right when I watched it. And, like, now I don't really care as much anymore. I'm like. I let go a lot of those things. But I. It was kind of interesting to me to get to the end of the film and then kill Bill's like, I've invented a truth serum that's more powerful than sodium pentotholic. And. And I'm kind of like. I remember at the time watching it being like, that's really freaking random. And now watching it now I understand. I mean, I think I understood it back then as well. But, like, the reason why that needs to happen is because he's like, we need to have a moment where the bride honestly communicates with Bill what she was thinking at the time.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Let's go to therapy.

[David Chen]

Yeah. And. And that you cannot, but that the only way to do that was that Bill is also some kind of scientist. Right. I just thought that was a little

[Devindra Hardawar]

strange, people working for him. Somebody, some minion developed that. He's the head of a criminal empire at this point, so he can assign somebody. Let's do this. And you know how much money we can make with a super true theorem.

[David Chen]

Yeah. I guess I'm just.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Incredible amounts of money.

[David Chen]

Yeah. I wonder, like. I guess I'm curious, like, why he. Why Quentin Tarantino as the writer felt like he had to do that is because would it not have been interesting enough with just the bride talking to Bill?

[Devindra Hardawar]

It's a cheat code. It's a cheat code to be like, okay, we're all cards on the table now. We're both just saying it.

[David Chen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of like you don't want. I guess he. He. Quentin Tarantino, the writer, really didn't want you to have to worry about whether the bride was telling the truth or not in that scene. And so he concocts this whole elaborate

[Devindra Hardawar]

truth serum thing, but it's an emotional standoff. Yeah.

[Matt Goldberg]

And also, you don't want to have the threat. You don't want to, like. It's like, if you don't tell me the truth, I'll kill our daughter. Doesn't read as honest.

[Devindra Hardawar]

So.

[David Chen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That I totally.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Dad over here. Good sandwich maker. Apparently he's taking care of the kid. He's got a shogun assassin at the ready for his daughter. Like, yes. What more Could a kid ask for, yeah, Yeah, Mommy. Let's watch Shogun Assassin.

[David Chen]

What do you make of. I'm watching this scene. I think one of the things. One of the things that's strong about the film is this juxtaposition between just brutal ultraviolence and then these scenes of domesticity, Right. That happen a few times. Like, happens a few times. Like the very first scene with Vernita Green, and then at the end where, like, the bride is about to, like, shoot him, and then all of a sudden the daughter's there, and then they need to, like, really tone it down and play house for a little bit anyway, I guess. Do you have any thoughts with what Bill is doing in. In that ending sequence? Right. Is my sense. Is he, like. He's showing Beatrix Kiddo her daughter out of compassion for Beatrix Kiddo, but they still intend on. On killing each other.

[Devindra Hardawar]

Like, one of the first scenes is him stopping El Driver from killing her. Like, if she wakes up, she deserves to come find her. Like, he has given her many, many outs to basically come to her. Like, that amount of respect. And the scene we get of them in the wedding house, too, in the wedding chapel, is very much like a sign of respect. He is so good. Carradine's so good. These scenes are so well written. He was like, I love you, but also, you left me. And I am so angry about this. What can I do? But it's also so well balanced.

[Matt Goldberg]

It's also sort of a writer's anger because I think a lot of Bill's anger saying, it's like, you would have a life that I do not condone for you, and you would not have been happy playing house with your daughter and this unremarkable guy. Because I know you so well. And on the one hand, maybe that's probably true, that Bill knows her better than she knows herself. But it's also the denial of a choice for her and that she doesn't get to make those choices. And I think it's one of the more interesting gender lines of the film, which is that Bill cannot conceive of motherhood and fierceness residing in the same place, that for her to give up the assassin life, she would give up everything she worked for her job and play housekeeper and mommy. And this whole film is like, I can't kind of have it all because I. You've underestimated me at every turn.

[David Chen]

Right? Right. I think it is notable that the way she kills him at the end is sheathing his sword. Right. Like. Like, we have that fight at the table, and then she, like, puts the sheath up and then the sword goes

[Devindra Hardawar]

into it and it's like, yeah, love those little moments. Love those. And it's the one technique he could not. He could not learn. So she always felt like he. He was her better in many ways. Right. And that scene proved it. But it's also. It's like to the truce of the room, this is an emotional standoff. Like what Tarantino popularized the idea of the Mexican standoff. Right. And that's that drama where all the guns are pointing at each other. What will happen next? And in this movie, it's not guns. It is truth. It is emotional truth pointed directly at each other. What is going to happen with these characters? That always blew me away in the theater. Like, it's not a big fight sequence that we get. It is a conversation and a final hit and that's it. Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Goldberg]

And you can't be mad because you've had your big fight sequence. You had, like, what are we going to do?

[David Chen]

Yep, absolutely.

[Devindra Hardawar]

What are you going to do? Get Michael J. White over here in a wonderful fight scene with David Carradine, maybe? No, we'll never do that. Yeah.

[David Chen]

All right, guys. I love this movie. I think it really works as an entire work viewed together all at once. Like, I think it's an incredible experience. I again, cannot recommend highly enough. And at the end of the day, it is very impressive that Quentin Tarantino made a film.

[Devindra Hardawar]

It is.

[David Chen]

And that's going to bring us the end of this week's episode of the film Cast. You can find more episodes of the [e-mail] email [e-mail] Our theme song comes from Tim McEwen from the Midnight. Our spoiler bumper and weekly plugs music comes from Noah Ross, who also edited this episode with video assistance provided by Kurt Mega and John Barry. Again, a big thanks to Matt Goldberg for joining us today. Matt, thanks so much for taking the time to chat with us about Kill Bill. The whole bloody affair, man. Appreciate it.

[Matt Goldberg]

Oh, it was complete pleasure. Thanks for having me on.

[David Chen]

Next week on the podcast, it's going to be Project Hail Mary. Project Hail Mary will be our main review. Should be a lot of fun until then. They are Matt Goldberg and Devindra Hardwar. I'm David Chen and we'll see you later. Bye.

[Matt Goldberg]

Sa.