Ray Gricar: The DA Who Drove Away

Summary

---

The Final Hours with Sarah Turney and Kourtney Nichole

Episode: Ray Gricar: The DA Who Drove Away

Date: April 20, 2026 | Host: Crime House Original, powered by PAVE Studios

---

Episode Overview

This episode explores the unsolved 2005 disappearance of Ray Frank Gricar, a respected Pennsylvania district attorney who went missing under mysterious circumstances. Hosts Sarah Turney and Kourtney Nichole detail Ray’s last known movements, family history, and the complexities of the investigation. Using their personal insights and investigative expertise, they analyze the overlooked details and propose possible scenarios, while reflecting on the enduring impact such cases have on families.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

---

1. Setting the Scene: Ray’s Disappearance

• Ray Gricar was last seen on April 15, 2005, after driving to Lewisburg, PA, where his car was later found abandoned near an antique mall (Street of Shops).

• His car, a red Mini Cooper, contained his cell phone (turned off), water bottle, and unexplained cigarette ash, though Ray was known to despise smoking.

  “The car smells faintly like smoke and there's a little bit of cigarette ash on the passenger seat floor mat. This is the last place Ray parked his car before he vanished."
  — Courtney Nicole (00:44)

• Ray was responsible, professional, and set to retire soon, making voluntary disappearance seem unlikely.

---

2. Family Tragedy and Parallels

• The disappearance was especially painful for Ray’s family, having lost Ray’s brother, Roy, under similar circumstances in 1996—his car was found near water, and his death was ruled a suicide (07:25).

• Ray never believed that Roy died by suicide, leading him to check in with police during Ohio visits.

• This background impacts how Ray's loved ones view his case.

  “It just has to be torture… you just don't believe that they would do that.”
  — Sarah Turney (08:07)

• Discussion of the emotional anguish survivors face and mental health resources (988 lifeline) (08:26).

---

3. Ray’s Life and Routine

• Ray’s background, career, and personal life: married Barbara Gray, adopted daughter Laura, moved to Pennsylvania, worked up to Centre County DA (04:57–06:51).
• After divorcing amicably, Ray maintained close family ties. Began dating Patty Fornicola in 2001, and their relationship thrived (09:18–10:25).
• Leading up to 2005, he seemed tired but otherwise well; last spoken to by Laura and Patty shortly before the disappearance (10:25–11:26).

---

4. The Day Ray Disappeared – April 15, 2005

• Ray decided to take the day off, drove east, and called Patty at 11:30am from State Route 192 (11:26).

  “If he has any plans or a final destination, he doesn't mention it... Before he hangs up, he tells Patty, 'I love you.' And she says, 'I love you back.'"
  — Sarah Turney (11:26)

• Patty noticed his unusual fatigue, but both hosts consider it unremarkable for his age and workload (12:20–13:14).

• Patty expected Ray to be home by 5pm. When he did not return, she tried his cell and eventually reported him missing just before midnight (14:06–14:38):

  “Oddly enough, something else is missing that he never takes with him. Ray's county laptop.”
  — Courtney Nicole (14:38)

---

5. Discovery and Investigation

• Ray’s car found in Lewisburg, 55 miles from home, in the parking lot of the antique mall (16:39).

• The car’s state raised red flags: locked doors, missing keys, phone left behind (16:58–17:32).

• Cigarette odor and ash in the car were strongly out-of-character:

  “He really does not like cigarettes … that’s, I feel like, a really, really big clue to me that something is not right.”
  — Courtney Nicole (20:09)

• Witnesses saw someone matching Ray's description near the mall between Friday and Saturday (18:00–19:26). Reports varied in timing and reliability:

  “If we can't narrow down the day, I feel like that's a big time frame. That is just crucial.”
  — Courtney Nicole (19:33)

• Some witnesses also described Ray with an unidentified woman.

---

6. Family and Law Enforcement Response

• Law enforcement (local, state police, FBI) coordinate search efforts (21:58).
• No suspicious activity on Ray’s credit cards or bank accounts; last cell phone use at 11:30am Friday.
• Missing work laptop raised alarm, as it contained sensitive material.
• Laptop later found months after, in the Susquehanna River near where his car was discovered, but its hard drive was missing (27:09):

  “As soon as they retrieve the laptop, a forensic computer specialist starts their analysis. But they don't get far because the hard drive has gone missing.”
  — Courtney Nicole (27:09)

---

7. The Missing Hard Drive

• Eventually, the hard drive is found (31:22), in terrible shape. FBI attempts data recovery, unsuccessfully. (32:41)
• Years later, investigators learn Ray had been researching how to destroy hard drives; he possessed relevant software and internet search history about hard drive destruction (35:05–35:34).
• Disagreement about the implication: did Ray wipe info to hide, or to protect it from potential criminals (35:34):

  “He thinks the fact that Ray wanted to wipe information means he had something worth keeping out of a criminal's hands.”
  — Sarah Turney (35:34)

---

8. Theories and Speculation

• Three main theories arose:
  • Ray was murdered due to his work
  • Ray died by suicide
  • Ray ran away or was placed in witness protection (23:06)
• No threats found related to Ray’s work. His family and friends strongly doubt the voluntary disappearance or suicide theories, citing Ray’s excitement for retirement and family (34:03–34:18).
• DA colleagues publicly criticized the investigation’s slow progress (32:41–35:05).

---

9. Aftermath and Closure

• In 2011, Ray’s daughter Laura and longtime partner Patty petition for and receive a legal declaration of death for Ray (36:18, 39:32).

  “They believe without a doubt that Ray is dead. They don't think he would have entered a witness protection program or walked away from his life.”
  — Sarah Turney (36:18)

• Emotional discussion of the difficulty and necessity for families to seek such closure, given unresolved loss (37:26–39:18).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ray’s habits and rituals:

  "His routine and ritual, it doesn't really help investigators."
  — Courtney Nicole (13:19)

• On witness statements:

  “I wish that witness testimony was more reliable. These witness statements just notoriously can be hard to decipher.”
  — Sarah Turney (19:53)

• On family coping:

  “This family is obviously amazing for them to really drop everything... But you don't always see it. But I do love to see it.”
  — Sarah Turney (25:20)

• On destructive evidence:

  “A lot of that information that could have been on this hard drive can be easily replicated anywhere else... All I know, I guess all I'll say that I know the laptop was placed in the water intentionally.”
  — Courtney Nicole (30:01)

• On closure and legal process:

  "I don't know if I've ever come across a case where someone's like reappeared after they're legally declared dead... At this point, you know, I tend to agree with his family."
  — Courtney Nicole (38:33)

---

Critical Timestamps & Key Segments

• 00:44: Description of the scene where Ray’s car was found
• 06:51: Ray becomes DA, divorces, maintains close family ties
• 07:25–08:57: Discussing Roy’s disappearance and suicide ruling
• 11:26: Ray’s last call to Patty (“I love you”)
• 14:38: Ray reported missing; his work laptop noticed missing
• 16:39: Ray's car found in Lewisburg, initial scene analysis
• 18:00–19:26: Key witness sightings
• 27:09: Discovery of Ray’s laptop in the river, but missing hard drive
• 31:22: Hard drive found by civilians
• 32:41–35:05: Efforts to recover hard drive data, Ray’s pre-disappearance web searches
• 36:18: Petition for Ray’s legal death declaration
• 41:15: Call for tips and information about Ray Gricar

---

Final Reflection

The disappearance of Ray Gricar remains a haunting mystery, complicated by his role as a prosecutor, the suspicious state of his car and electronic devices, and the poignant parallel to his brother’s fate. The episode underscores the importance of examining both the minute and overlooked details—and of understanding how families persevere and seek closure when answers never come.

---

Contact for Information

“Ray Frank Griekar will be about 80 years old as of this recording. He is a 6 foot tall Caucasian male with a lean build, graying brown hair and green eyes. If you have any information about Ray Gricar, you can contact the Pennsylvania State Police at 1-800-4PA-TIPS or submit a tip online at p3tips.com.”
— Courtney Nicole (41:15)

---

Transcript

[Courtney Nicole]

Foreign.

[Advertisement Voice]

This is Crime House.

[Sarah Turney]

It's April 16, 2005, in a small historic Pennsylvania river town called Lewisburg. You're looking at a one story brick building decorated with green and brown striped awnings. A sign out front reads street of Shops, an indoor antique Mall with 375 vendors. Inside, the halls resemble old Town streets lined with quaint storefront facades. There's an antique bank teller window, park benches, and vintage streetlights. It's the last place anyone laid eyes on Ray Frank Gricar.

[Courtney Nicole]

The building backs up to a thin wooded area lining the Susquehanna River. Across the street is a gravel parking lot. One of the cars parked There is a 2004 Red Mini Cooper with a white top. The doors are locked and the keys are nowhere to be found. But the a cell phone and a water bottle inside the car smells faintly like smoke and there's a little bit of cigarette ash on the passenger seat floor mat. This is the last place Ray parked his car before he vanished that day in this quiet, ordinary little spot. But Ray Gricar was not the type to just walk away from his life. He was responsible, professional, and about to retire. And with no note, no signs of a struggle, and no body, his case becomes even more of a mystery. Every year, over half a million people go missing. And that's just in the United States alone. Most of those stories barely get a headline. Some don't even get a flyer or a tip line. And when cases do get media attention, we usually only get the broad strokes.

[Sarah Turney]

But for those of us who have lived these true crime cases, we know the devil's in the details. This is the Final Hours A Crime House Original Powered by Pave Studios. I'm Sarah Turney.

[Courtney Nicole]

And I'm Courtney Nicole. Every Monday, Sarah and I will be looking at the final hours of someone's disappearance. The small, seemingly mundane moments to see if there was anything hiding in plain sight.

[Sarah Turney]

Looking back at those last conversations, connections and choices is critical and it could be the key to unlocking it all. Each episode I'll offer insight on what those close to the victim might have been going through. And Courtney will use her expertise to give more context into the crime scene, the red flags, and the investigation itself. And we want to thank you for being a part of the Crime House community. Please rate, review and follow the show and for ad free access to every episode. Subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Courtney Nicole]

This time we're discussing the disappearance of 59 year old Ray Frank Griekar. On a sunny day in April, 2005 Ray played hooky from work that morning. He took a scenic drive east, parked his car at an antiques mall he frequented, and was never seen again. But his computer was, and it might hold the key to solving his disappearance.

[Advertisement Voice]

You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. They make it super simple. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions and you'll get a quick quote with coverage options tailored to your choices. Plus you'll see which discounts you may qualify for, like the online quote discount or savings for paying in full. In fact, 99% of Progressive Auto customers earn at least one discount. See if you could save when you switch to Progressive. You can. You'll feel good about making a savvy choice. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little extra cash back Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary

[Courtney Nicole]

what they did

[Sarah Turney]

to your family, you're lucky to make it out alive.

[Advertisement Voice]

Streaming on Peacock these men are going

[Sarah Turney]

to come after me. Taking them out. It's my only chance.

[Courtney Nicole]

Put a bul

[Advertisement Voice]

co creator of Ozark

[Courtney Nicole]

Looks like a family was running drugs execution style killing.

[Sarah Turney]

It's rare for the Keys.

[Courtney Nicole]

Any leads on who they might have been running for?

[Sarah Turney]

The cartel killed my family.

[Courtney Nicole]

I'm gonna kill them.

[Sarah Turney]

All of them.

[Courtney Nicole]

MIA Streaming now only on Peacock. Ray Greer's case must have felt tragically familiar to his family. His older brother Roy disappeared almost a decade before he did in a strangely similar way. But the difference is that Roy's body was found and his case was closed. Decades after Ray's disappearance, we're still left wondering what happened to him and if he might still be alive today. But before we discuss Ray's fate and the heartbreaking circumstances surrounding his family, let's talk about his life.

[Sarah Turney]

It's 2005. 59 year old Ray Frank Greecar is the District Attorney of Centre County, Pennsylvania. People know him as this hard working, meticulous guy who's kind of aloof. Born and raised in Cleveland, Ohio, Ray went to college downstate at the University of Dayton where he majored in political science. When Ray was a junior, he offered a freshman named Barbara Gray a ride home and the rest was history. The two became inseparable at the time Ray was looking into getting his master's degree in Russian history. He only became interested in the law after working an internship at a prosecutor's office. The that's where Ray realized his dream was to become a career prosecutor. In 1968, when Barbara graduated with her degree in chemistry, the couple moved back north to Cleveland. Ray attended law school at Case Western Reserve University and Barbara worked at a research lab. They tied the knot in 1969. Ray and Barbara wanted a family, so they were heartbroken to learn that they couldn't have children biologically. But in 1978, they adopted a little girl named Laura and Ray devoted himself to being a father. In 1979, Barbara joined the faculty at Penn State. Because of that, the family of three moved from Ohio to the town of State College, Pennsylvania. For the first year, Ray stayed home to raise Laura. That meant waffles most mornings, outings to the park together, and flying kites in a cornfield near their house.

[Courtney Nicole]

Then came 1980. That year, an assistant District attorney position opened up under Centre County DA David E. Grine. It was the perfect job for Ray, so he could not turn it down. And when Grine's successor chose not to run again in 1985, it was Ray who was elected as the Centre County District attorney. And that's how things were until 1991. But that year, Ray and Barbara got divorced. But they remained on friendly terms and stayed in touch to co parent Lara.

[Sarah Turney]

Things got worse for Ray before they got better though, because in 1996, the Grecars had their first big family tragedy. That January, Ray's older brother, 53 year old Roy Grecar, retired from Wright Patterson Air Force Base. He lived with his wife and three grade school sons in Westchester, Ohio. Five months later, at 5:30pm on May 8, 1996, Roy told his wife he was going to the gas station to buy mulch. Then he'd pick up their nine year old son from his friend's house. He left home in his Toyota Camry, but never made it to either location.

[Courtney Nicole]

Two days later, Roy's car was found at a park in Dayton, which was close to a bridge over the Great Miami River. Eight days after that, on May 18, Roy's body was pulled out of the water. His death was ruled as a suicide by drowning. Roy was being medicated for depression. But Ray never believed that he would die by suicide. He didn't think that his brother would leave his three sons, Tony, Chris and Andrew, without a father. So every time Ray went to visit his family back in Ohio, he would Check with the police to see if there were any new leads in Roy's case. Man, I feel like it has to be really, really tough when you have authorities coming to you and saying that you have a loved one, you know, who ended their own life when at the end of the day you just don't believe that they would do that.

[Sarah Turney]

Yeah, I mean, I agree. It's so hard, especially when there's no note and you're kind of just left wondering and analyzing and going over all the clues and evidence for yourself. It just has to be torture.

[Courtney Nicole]

Yeah. I feel like you always think that you know your family best, but sometimes there are simply just no signs until it happens and it's just really, really unfortunate.

[Sarah Turney]

Yeah. I do think that this is a good time to share the hotline though, right. That you can call or text 988Web chat is also available at 988lifeline.org if you need help.

[Courtney Nicole]

I was just gonna say on, on the flip side of that, I feel like it also might be hard for like investigators too when they're kind of doing everything by the book and trying to stick to like the facts of the case, which in some cases do point to, to suicide, but at the end of, doesn't think that or want to think their loved one would die by suicide. It's kind of just tough for every single party involved. I can't even imagine.

[Sarah Turney]

Yeah, I mean, especially something like that involving water and a vehicle. I mean, it feels like it could go either way. Over the years, Ray stayed close with his nephews, Tony, Chris and Andrew. He cared a lot about his family, so it must have been hard when 20 year old Lara moved from Pennsylvania to Mammoth Lakes, California in the fall of 97. But at least he still got to see her about four times a year. Things got scary though in 2001 when Lara had a near fatal snowboarding accident. Ray dropped everything to go out west and take care of her for a month. He rented a condo and changed the dressings on her back. But 2001 had ups as well as downs. That's when 55 year old Ray started dating 38 year old Patty Fornicola. She was a clerk at the district attorney's office and they'd both gone through divorces, so they had a bit in common. On their first date, Ray and Patty drove four hours to Cleveland where he showed her the house he grew up in. Over time, things got more serious and he eventually moved into her childhood home, which she now owned in Bellefontein, Pennsylvania. About 23 minutes away from State College. The change in scenery seemed to do him good. Ray had always had a dry sense of humor, but he was becoming more outgoing and playful as he neared his 60s. Every Friday night he and Patty went to the Gamble Mill Inn. They played Trivial Pursuit while Ray enjoyed a Grey Goose martini. And their relationship was still going strong by 2005.

[Courtney Nicole]

At this point, Ray's been a prosecutor for 30 years and a district attorney for 19. He decides not to seek re election for a sixth term. He's going to retire in December at the age of 60 and he plans to really enjoy his life. Ray and Patty often talk about what they'll do after his retirement. Ray enjoys traveling, antiquing and outdoor activities. He only has seven months to go and he's really looking forward to it. They plan to take long road trips and visit Lara, where she now lives in Washington State. Ray's also planning a trip to visit family in Ohio. Soon he'll see Roy's sons while he's there. But as the calendar turns to spring in 2005, Ray is still working hard and he seems more fatigued than usual. He takes naps after work and sometimes even during lunch. Patty encourages him to see a doctor in case something is going on physically or even mentally. But Lara thinks Ray seems fine. They speak on the phone about three times a week, including on Thursday, April 14. Lara calls him just to tell him she loves him. And of course he says, I love you too.

[Sarah Turney]

The next morning, Friday, April 15, 2005, 59 year old Ray sits up in bed. Patty brings him a glass of orange juice and he tells her he's taking the day off work. This isn't unusual for Ray. Every once in a while he likes to play hooky and just go for a drive. Patty kisses him and leaves for the Centre County Courthouse since she still works in the DA's office there. After she leaves, Ray throws on jeans, white sneakers and a blue fleece jacket. Then he hops into the car. The weather's in the 60s and sunny as he heads east around 11:30am Ray calls Patty to let her know that he's driving on State Route 192. If he has any plans or a final destination, he doesn't mention it. They speak briefly about the stuff that needs to be done at home and he says he won't be back in time to feed and walk the dog. Honey. Before he hangs up, he tells Patty, I love you. And she says, I love you back.

[Courtney Nicole]

I feel like Ray and Patty's relationship is Just so cute. I love them introducing each other to their childhood homes, and now they're living in hers. And I think when Ray starts, like, experiencing more fatigue as, you know, the days go on, I think it's really sweet of Patty to, like, be worried about him and want him to get checked out. But in my personal opinion, I feel like, you know, he's getting older and he has a really highly demanding job. In my personal opinion, I don't feel like it's odd or, like, bizarre for him to be feeling tired.

[Sarah Turney]

Yeah, no, I feel exactly the same way. Like, one. Their first date is so cute. To go to the childhood home is just adorable, right? But, yeah, I totally agree with you. This fatigue could be from anything. It could be a stressful. A stressful day. It could be just getting older. I mean, it's really hard to say exactly.

[Courtney Nicole]

I mean, I'm 27, and I feel like I get tired most days, so I can relate to him. I don't think it's anything out of the ordinary, exactly.

[Sarah Turney]

I could have a day where I just need to lay down in the middle of the day. I think it happens to all of us.

[Courtney Nicole]

I also feel like a person's, like, rituals can really help investigators get more insight into a case. And in this case, it's tough because I feel like most of the time it can help an investigation. But in Ray's case, like, he's kind of just doing what he already does, like, a lot. Like what he typically does, which is playing hooky and, you know, going for a little drive or, you know, going antiquing. Like, it's something that he is known to do. So I feel like in this specific case, his routine and ritual, it doesn't really help investigators.

[Sarah Turney]

I mean, this is a tough case overall, but I totally agree. And, you know, he's nearing retirement. He's playing hooky. It's not unusual, but, you know, could it be purposeful? I don't know.

[Courtney Nicole]

Yeah. I also feel like, you know, somebody's ritual, it could just be a really good indicator whether something seems off or not. Depending on, like, the circumstance. It could help somebody walk away.

[Sarah Turney]

Yeah, no, I agree. It could go either way. And I think that's what makes this case so hard. In particular, we know taking a random day off is on brand for Ray, but Patty imagines he'll be home by the time she returns from work at 5pm so when he doesn't come back, Patty gets concerned. To take her mind off of it, she heads to the YMCA to work out when she gets back, Ray still isn't there. She tries his cell over and over but keeps getting his voicemail. She leaves him several messages.

[Courtney Nicole]

Finally, around 11:30pm Patty calls the Bellefont police and reports Ray missing. He's still gone with the car. And oddly enough, something else is missing that he never takes with him. Ray's county laptop.

[Prime Originals Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by. Prime Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice off campus Elle every year. After the Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point and more slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime Girl.

[Ross Store Advertiser]

Winter is so last season, and now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders, that perfect hang on the patio sundress, those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done. Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic.

[Sarah Turney]

It's Saturday, April 16, one day since Patty last saw Ray. That's when she starts calling his family members to let them know he's missing. Meanwhile, the state police are searching central Pennsylvania for any sign of his car. They also issue a bulletin to six neighboring states. first, they think he might have taken an impromptu detour four hours west of his home in Bellefonte to watch the Cleveland Indians play. He's gone to baseball games on a whim before without telling anyone, so they asked the Ohio authorities to look around for Ray. But that evening, Pennsylvania police found Ray's red and white Mini Cooper.

[Courtney Nicole]

It's in Lewisburg, 55 miles east from Bellefonte, in a parking lot across from an antiques market that he's been known to visit. Called the street of Shops, the market is in front of a shallow wooded area on the edge of the Susquehanna River. Nearby, there's an abandoned rusted railroad bridge and a newer traffic bridge used by cars to drive across the river.

[Sarah Turney]

The location of the car is eerily reminiscent of the scene with Ray's brother, Roy. Roy's car was also parked along a river just a couple blocks away from a traffic bridge. But in this case, Ray's car doors are locked and the keys are gone. A water bottle and Ray's cell phone are still inside, but the cell phone's turned off, which is unusual. Ray always keeps it on when he's on the road, and he always makes sure to call or email the office when he's running late or taking the day off. Chances are if he got out of the car willingly, he would have taken it. So this is worrisome.

[Courtney Nicole]

There's something else weird inside the car. The air smells faintly of cigarettes. And there's a little bit of ash on the passenger seat floor mat. Another piece of evidence that shocks the people who know Ray. He really does not like cigarettes. He would never want someone to be smoking in his Mini Cooper. So the car opens up a lot of questions. But now that the police have found it, they can start collecting witness statements. And at least three people who work in or near the Antique mall saw someone who looked like Ray that weekend.

[Sarah Turney]

A woman named Jennifer Snyder, who works a block away from the mall at the Packwood House Museum, saw Ray on Friday around noon. She looked out the window and noticed Ray standing near his parked Mini Cooper. She noticed it because the distinct British car was featured in the Italian Job remake.

[Courtney Nicole]

Down the street, a man named Brad Alvey, the owner of a new restaurant being built at street of Shops, was working long hours to oversee the project. He saw Ray, but says he's not sure if it was Friday or Saturday. According to Brad, Ray seemed to be having a nice time, just moseying along.

[Sarah Turney]

Then there was a witness named Craig Bennett, the owner of the street of Shops complex. Around noon on Saturday, a day after Patti last saw Ray, Craig stopped by the Antique mall to check out the last phase of the new restaurant construction. Craig tells police he noticed a man who fit Ray's Description Standing about 8 to 10ft from where they were building. He wasn't shopping or browsing. He just stood there for five to ten solid minutes like he was waiting for someone. According to Craig, he looked anxious and tense. The mall owner didn't see Ray leave, if his demeanor had changed, what time it was, or if he was with someone.

[Courtney Nicole]

Other witnesses report seeing Ray with an attractive Caucasian woman in her 30s or 40s. She was tall, about 5 9, with dark chin length hair. They aren't sure if Ray was shopping with her or if they just happened to cross paths several times and exchanged niceties.

[Sarah Turney]

I feel like witness statements can be so tough, but if these people had seen Ray here before, I feel like that could change things.

[Courtney Nicole]

Yeah, I was just gonna say, especially in this location where he has been known to frequent like many times. I'm sure. That's just, like, another level of, like, frustrating because I feel like it's been well established that he was there. And without much to go on, you have these witness statements, which is, on one hand, great. But if we can't narrow down the day, I feel like that's a big time frame. That is just crucial.

[Sarah Turney]

Oh, yeah, that makes a huge difference. Right. I wish that witness testimony was more reliable. These witness statements just notoriously can be hard to decipher.

[Courtney Nicole]

I definitely feel for Patty and the rest of the family.

[Sarah Turney]

Well, yeah, I'm sure they're trying to narrow down exactly what data could be, too.

[Courtney Nicole]

I think one thing that I always circle back to when it comes to this case is the cigarette ash on his floor mat. He normally would, like, never allow that to happen. That's, I feel like, a really, really big clue to me that something is not right.

[Sarah Turney]

I think that it definitely indicates that something is out in the ordinary here. Whether somebody else was driving his car, somebody was in the passenger seat who wasn't supposed to be there.

[Courtney Nicole]

I think it really does narrow down that somebody really was inside of his car.

[Sarah Turney]

Okay, maybe I'm just nitpicking too much, but, like, was the window down? Is there any world in which somebody could be walking by and they just, like, you know, ash their cigarette in his window for fun or to be a jerk?

[Courtney Nicole]

And I guess that could happen, I guess, because I personally would never do that. So, like, I can't imagine somebody else doing that.

[Sarah Turney]

Yeah, I mean, I guess, to play devil's advocate, though, right, if the car smells like cigarettes, I think it's fair to say that they were probably in there. I guess I just think of, like, every possibility, and I have to imagine that the police know that answer. But I also can't get over the cell phone. The cell phone being turned off and left in the car.

[Courtney Nicole]

Yeah, that's really weird. Turned off, too. I just feel like Ray. I mean, obviously I didn't know him personally, but just based off of, like, his family's description of him, I just don't think that he would have done that. Like, I don't think he would leave his family high and dry like that and just, like, go, no contact.

[Sarah Turney]

Well, if you remember, Ray's daughter Laura is currently living in Washington state, but she drops everything when her dad disappears. She and her fiance are closing on a house near Seattle, but she leaves him to deal with the move. She's also in school at the moment, but drops her classes for the term to help with the investigation. Lara arrives in Pennsylvania on Saturday, April 17, two days after her dad left home. Her mom, Barbara, and her cousins Toni and Chris meet her at the airport. Ray's family and friends set up a headquarters at Patty's.

[Courtney Nicole]

With no evidence of foul play, the missing persons case remains in the jurisdiction of the Bellefonte Police Department because that's where Ray lives. But they call on help from the State College police and the Pennsylvania State Police. They get divers to search in the river, helicopters to search along the banks, and dogs to track Ray's scent within days. The FBI also helps analyze Ray's bank and phone records. Nobody has used his credit cards or assessed his account since the Friday he went missing. And the call to Patty at 11:30am on Friday was in fact the last one he'd made from his cell phone. The data from his call logs also confirm what Ray told Patty. He was driving on State Route 192 at the time. There is one device the FBI can't search, though, and that's Ray's work laptop. Why? Because it's missing, which is alarming because it contains sensitive information and he doesn't usually take it with him when he travels. The laptop isn't at home where it should be or in his car. Investigators do look through Ray's office and home desktop computers. They scour his files, calendar and search history, and they find that he hasn't sent emails from any of his accounts. They also check his medical records and find nothing out of the ordinary.

[Sarah Turney]

Three general theories are floating around the media at this point. That Ray was murdered because of his involvement with a case. That Ray died by suicide, or that Ray either ran off to start a new life willingly or. Or as a part of a witness protection program. There's no evidence that any threats were made against Ray, though. As for the police, they don't have a theory yet, but they don't suspect the district attorney's disappearance is related to any of his cases, past or present. Ray's disappearance really hits his co workers on Monday, April 18, 2005, because he has a courthouse hearing for a drug case scheduled at 9:30am if he was just gone for the weekend, he would have made sure to be back in time for this.

[Courtney Nicole]

But he does not show up. And that same day, on Monday, April 18, two witnesses report a possible sighting of Ray near Wilkes Bar, about 65 miles east of the street of Shops where Ray's car was found and 120 miles from where he lives in Belfond. Police never give the exact location of the Sighting, but the witness is a bartender. The man he thinks was Ray talked to him about baseball and being from Cleveland while drinking a Heineken and watching the Indians game him on tv. This sounds like Ray, but there's no indication of where he went from there if that was him.

[Sarah Turney]

That week, Laura and her mom, Barbara, drive to stores all over Lewisburg to show people photos of Ray. They bump into police officers doing the same thing. But even after hitting every business in town, they still have no new information.

[Courtney Nicole]

On Wednesday, May 4, 2005, the state crime lab says they have some results. They'd collected and run the water bottle in Ray's car for DNA analysis, and they confirmed that he was the one who drank from it.

[Sarah Turney]

There's another sighting later that month. A man and his daughter had seen Ray's picture on a Fox News show. And on May 27, 2005, they think they spot him. The man they identify as Ray is at a restaurant in Southfield, Michigan, a suburb of Detroit, with a woman who looks to be in her 70s. But the sighting can't be confirmed.

[Courtney Nicole]

I think it's really hard in situations like this when you have a loved one go missing and whether, like, your family is really, really close or not. I feel like when something this devastating happens, a lot of the times I see it really kind of, like, bring everyone together.

[Sarah Turney]

I mean, this family is obviously amazing for them to really drop everything and his daughter to drop classes to let her fiance move alone, which I'm sure he completely understood. But you don't always see it. But I do love to see it.

[Courtney Nicole]

I also feel like with this family's backstory and, like, the history of losing Roy, I feel like they don't want this to be another situation just like that. So I feel like they're all kind of banding together immediately to help find Ray. I feel like police really kind of go by the book, which is obviously a good thing. You know, there are different avenues that a family can go down that could potentially help, you know, the. The case.

[Sarah Turney]

Yeah, no, definitely. I think that there's a way that families can think outside of the box a little bit more than police. Right. Police do this all day, every day, but families know their loved one better than anybody. So I feel like even though, you know, in Rey's position, he's probably getting a ton of police resources, it doesn't hurt to have his family out there either, Right? Like, the family running into the police handing out flyers. I don't see anything wrong with that. It doesn't seem like they're impeding in any way, especially when it comes to looking for a missing person. It feels like you really want to get the most media you can and get the word out there everywhere you can. Which seems to be what both sides are doing, law enforcement and this family to Saturday, July 30, 2005 three and a half months since Ray went missing that day, two fishermen are out on the Susquehanna river in Lewisburg. The water is relatively clear and shallow right now, about four and a half to five feet deep. The fishermen notice something under The State Route 45 bridge, the one a couple of blocks away from the street of Shops. They throw their net in the water and scoop out a laptop. It has an inventory tag on it from the Center County Commissioner's office. So they call the state police.

[Courtney Nicole]

As soon as they retrieve the laptop, a forensic computer specialist starts their analysis. But they don't get far because the hard drive has gone missing. There's no way to get information off of it.

[Sarah Turney]

Ray mostly uses this laptop to research and prepare for cases. But in DA cases, he reviews findings that police officers forward to him. Which means it's unlikely his computer would host the only copy of any sensitive information. So why steal his hard drive? The police also don't believe Ray had a lot of personal information stored on the hard drive of his work laptop since he had a computer at home. Either way, it seems like someone intentionally threw the laptop into the river. The question is, was it Ray or someone else?

[Courtney Nicole]

Dive teams searched the water back in April when Ray's car was found, but they didn't find the laptop then. So the other question was it thrown in when Ray disappeared or by someone else after? Unfortunately, there's no way to get fingerprints off the computer or to tell how long it's been in the water.

[Sarah Turney]

If you ask some of Ray's friends and family, they say it points to homicide. Tony isn't sure. His uncle is tech savvy enough to remove a hard drive on his own, and his DA buddy Ted McKnight thinks he could but wouldn't.

[Courtney Nicole]

It's worth noting that this is a pop out hard drive, so Ray or anyone else definitely could have removed it pretty easily. Or it could have fallen out of the computer. But police aren't going to get many answers until they can find the hard drive itself. So dive teams from the Sunbury Fire Department search the river again on Saturday, July 30 and Sunday, July 31, but they don't find anything worth noting.

[Sarah Turney]

I feel like we have another clue here that just leads to more questions than answers.

[Courtney Nicole]

I don't know. I feel like in any other case, if it didn't involve a body of water, I feel like a piece of evidence being found later could lead to something being suspicious. But if it involves water, especially in like a river like this, you just don't know, like what's gonna happen if someone or something goes in the water. It's just hard to tell if it was placed when Ray disappeared or sometime after. If it's through like a fast moving body of water.

[Sarah Turney]

Yeah. I mean, we know that the laptop didn't like blow into the river. Right. I think that that possibility is extremely unlikely. I won't say it's completely not possible because we've seen stranger things. Right. But I mean, it feels like it was placed there intentionally. And especially we're looking at this time frame. Right. This was over 20 years ago. I think that the general opinion is if you throw something into the water, especially something electronic, it's no longer going to work. But that being said, maybe somebody at the DA's office who knows more about the details of these investigations and the techniques that they can use to recover electronics, maybe they would know that it is recoverable if it is. You know, like, I feel like they would know more than the average person about throwing an electronic into a body of water.

[Courtney Nicole]

A lot of that information that could have been on this hard drive can be easily replicated anywhere else, like within his employment. I don't know, I feel like I'm kind of split down the middle. All I know, I guess all I'll say that I know the laptop was placed in the water intentionally. I feel like that's kind of the way I'm leaning.

[Sarah Turney]

Yeah, that seems very likely to me. I'll say. Right. And yeah, I just have to think about, like, what they're looking for on that laptop. We know that these court documents and even, you know, pieces of evidence are replicated. Right. So this doesn't contain, you know, the smoking gun for a case that a criminal might want because that's going to exist somewhere else. Right. But what if they were trying to access his email account? To send an email to somebody or even letterhead?

[Courtney Nicole]

Yeah. I feel like it's really tough for me when you have somebody in, in like raised position. I feel like, I try not to speculate on if that could potentially be connected or not. But like, I feel like it's really hard not to when you have somebody in this type of career and then they suddenly like go missing when they show no other signs that they would just like run away.

[Sarah Turney]

I mean, it could be somebody trying to access something, right? Because I think anybody who sees a DA's computer is going to think, oh, that's valuable, right? There's gotta be something on there. But what if something happened that was unexpected? They realized that Ray was, you know, a part of the prosecutor's office and then panicked and tried to get rid of the laptop.

[Courtney Nicole]

About two and a half months after Ray's computer is found in mid October 2005, a woman and her son are skipp rocks along the Susquehanna riverbank. Something catches their eye about 15ft from the water's edge. A hard drive that had been pressed into the mud where the water receded about 100 yards upstream from where Ray's laptop was found. They turn it over to the state police. It's the same model as Ray's computer, which means they might finally get some answers. Foreign. It's mid October 2005, six months since 59 year old Ray Grecar disappeared. State police finally have the hard drive from the missing district attorney's laptop. The problem is the hard drive's in terrible shape. So they ship it to an FBI facility hoping they can recover some information. The Bellefont police think this could be the key to where Ray went. If Ray walked away from his life, the hard drive might show travel plans or secret financial records. If he died by suicide, he might have kept a journal. Or if he was the victim of foul play, the computer could hold information about who was targeting him. But whatever is on the hard drive, the FBI can't read it and the investigation is stalled for almost three years.

[Sarah Turney]

Ray's friends are frustrated. On Tuesday, June 3, 2008, a close buddy of Ray's, Montour County DA Bob Buhner, writes a letter to the two DAs in charge of Ray's Center County DA, Michael Madera, and UNY County DA Pete Johnson. The letter asks them to follow a few leads identified by him and another colleague, former Clinton County DA Ted McKnight. Bob and Ted want the police to search hotels in the area for female customers. If Ray was still in Lewisburg on April 16, the day after he was last seen at home, he would have slept somewhere and people saw him talking to the tall Caucasian woman with dark chin length hair at the street of shops. Bob and Ted also want Ray's hard drive analyzed by a company out of Minnesota called Kroll. On track. In 2003, when the space shuttle Columbia re entered the earth's atmosphere, the entire vessel Disintegrated. Kroll was able to recover data off of hardware that was pulled from the debris. Basically, they're the best in the industry. Only Bob and Ted don't hear back from the D.A. s about their suggestions. So a month later, on Tuesday, July 1, 2008, they hold a press conference at Soldiers park, near where Ray's car was found. They publicly call out the two DAs on the case, along with the state attorney general. They criticize how the investigation has been handled and share their leads.

[Courtney Nicole]

Bob and Ted make some pretty good good points. They don't believe Ray could have committed suicide without his body being found. They think the river is too shallow. They're positive Ray loves his daughter too much and is too excited about retirement to disappear without a word. Ray is unmarried and without financial obligation, so there isn't much in his personal life for him to run from. They also point out their own experiences with death threats. Bob Sheriff has A list of 10 names to start with if Bob ever disappears. He believes almost every DA Receives death threats, that it's an occupational hazard. At least the press conference is a success. Centre County DA Michael Madera and the Bellefonte police say they're working on getting the hard drive to Kroll, but they don't know how soon it will be analyzed. Over the next few months, the DA and the police follow through. On Tuesday, September 30, 2008, Michael receives a full report from Kroll Ontrack. In addition, addition to water corrosion and crash damage, previous attempts to retrieve data have done some of their own damage. Kroll can't tell if the hard drive was wiped, but no data can be

[Sarah Turney]

recovered at this point, people start to share stories. Turns out in the 16 months before Ray disappeared, he asked some friends and colleagues about software that could erase a hard drive. There was even a box for that type of software seen at his house at some point after taking January 2004. It didn't seem strange at the time he expressed an interest in cleaning up his county laptop before he retired. He didn't want to return it to the DA's office with his personal information still on it.

[Courtney Nicole]

Well, on Tuesday, April 14, 2009, one day before the fourth anniversary of Ray's disappearance, the Bellefont police released new information when they examined Ray's home computer back in 2005, they found that he'd search for the Internet for how to wreck a hard drive, how to fry a hard drive, and water damage to a notebook computer. He'd also been researching software to erase a Hard drive. Some people think the idea that he wiped his own hard drive weakens the foul play theory because that means he had something to hide. But Bob Buhner believes the opposite. He thinks the fact that Ray wanted to wipe information means he had something worth keeping out of a criminal's hands. And if Ray still had the information in his head after it was erased, it would give someone a motive to kill him to keep him silent.

[Sarah Turney]

In June 2011, 34 year old Laura files a petition with Center County President Judge David E. Grine for a declaration of her father's death. David is the former DA who Ray started with as Assistant da. Under Pennsylvania law, a missing person can be presumed dead after seven years. But Ray's family is ready for closure after six. At 2pm on July 25, Laura, Patty and a detective from the Bellefonte police testify Laura phones in remotely from where she lives outside of Seattle. She and Patty believe without a doubt that Ray is dead. They don't think he would have entered a witness protection program or walked away from his life. Ray was getting ready for retirement and looking forward to spending more time with his girlfriend and his daughter. Lara was engaged and Ray knew her fiance well. Soon he would have gotten to walk his daughter down the aisle. As for the detective, he testifies that a six year investigation has failed to locate the former district attorney. He also doesn't think Ray was involved with anything that would make him a candidate for witness protection. His accounts still haven't been accessed since he disappeared.

[Courtney Nicole]

I personally don't think I will ever judge a family at any point for wanting to petition for a death certificate. I mean, I feel like they know their loved one really well and if they feel like the time is right, then I would trust them. I feel like I have no judgment just because I simply have never had to go through something like this.

[Sarah Turney]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a deeply personal choice that every family has to make and there's a variety of reasons why they could do it. Right. One is just for legal matters, things with benefits and you know, raise estate. They could have done it for that. It could also in some cases, I don't think here necessarily, but some families do it to enact a civil suit, usually a wrongful death suit. So I mean there are so many reasons why a family would have someone declared dead. And I will say that it doesn't always impact the investigation. Sometimes it's purely just for illegal reasons.

[Courtney Nicole]

Yeah, I can also see that it could be like maybe a sense of I don't want to say closure because obviously there are so many like unanswered questions, but it could just be like a peace of mind thing, like one less thing they're going to have to do later.

[Sarah Turney]

Yeah, I definitely know some families who've done it just for a sense of closure.

[Courtney Nicole]

Yeah. I don't know if I've ever come across a case where someone's like reappeared after they're legally declared dead. I know I've covered a few cases where people do reappear like several years later, but not after being legally declared dead. And in this case I just feel like it's been so long since there's, you know, there's, I mean he hasn't been seen in so long and on top of that none of his accounts have been accessed. So I feel like at this point, you know, I tend to agree with his family.

[Sarah Turney]

Like I said, it's such a deeply personal choice and it's never easy, even if you are doing it for technical reasons, to have to go through that and testify. Oh, like in a court of law about how you think your dad is likely dead is not something that people are doing for fun. Right. They have a good reason behind it. So I 100% support them.

[Courtney Nicole]

Especially like you mentioned earlier, when in, in Ray's case, he probably had so many different resources investigating this case and if none of them can provide any sort of answer, I can see them wanting to do this, you know, sooner rather than later.

[Sarah Turney]

The petition is granted. On July 25, 2011, Ray Gricar is legally declared dead. It seems clear he's not coming back and Lara needs to start dealing with his affairs and settling his estate. But if Ray is out there somewhere, his family and Patty want more than anything for him to return home. Even if he walked out, they would welcome him back with open arms. We don't know for sure what happened to Ray, but we do know this. 59 year old district attorney Ray Frank Gricar sat up in his bed on Friday, April 15, 2005. His girlfriend Patty, whose house he shared, brought him a glass of orange juice. He told her he was taking the day off work, which he enjoyed doing once in a while so he could decompress and go for a drive. He was less than a year from retirement, so maybe he had a bit of senioritis. Patty kissed him and left for the DA's office where she also worked. Ray got up, threw on his jeans, pulled on white sneakers and a blue fleece type jacket. He got into his red and white Mini Cooper and hit the road. It was the perfect spring day for a drive, sunny and in the 60s. Around 11:30am Ray called Patty. He let her know he was driving on State Route 192 and wouldn't be home in time to feed and walk their dog, Honey. Before hanging up the phone, Ray and Patty finished the call the way any of us hoped to end the last conversation with a loved one. He told her the most important thing, I love you. And she said, I love you back. Ray kept driving east through rolling hillsides, farm fields and the Bald Eagle State Forest and then he arrived at a cute old timey antiques market. He liked to shop at street of Shops, the last place he was ever seen.

[Courtney Nicole]

Ray Frank Griekar will be about 80 years old as of this recording. He is a 6 foot tall Caucasian male with a lean build, graying brown hair and green eyes. If you have any information about Ray Gricar, you can contact the Pennsylvania State Police at 1-800-4PA-TIPS or submit a tip online at p3tips.com.

[Sarah Turney]

Thank you for listening to the Final Hours. If you have any other details about Ray Gricar's case, please share it with us on social media. We want to hear from you. Your thoughts, condolences and feedback or whatnot make this community so special.

[Courtney Nicole]

At Crime House. We value your support. Share your thoughts on social media and remember to rate, review and follow the Final Hours to help others discover the

[Sarah Turney]

show and to enhance your listening experience. Subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of the Final Hours ad free along with early access and exciting bonus content.

[Courtney Nicole]

The Final Hours is hosted by Sarah Turney and me, Courtney Nicole and is a Crime House House original. Powered by Pave Studios, this episode was brought to life by the Final Hours team Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pertzofsky, Sarah Camp, Dana Brazil Solovey, Andrew Rosenblum and Russell Nash. Thank you for listening.

[Sarah Turney]

I'm Katie Ring, host of America's Most Infamous Crimes. Each week I take on one of the most notorious criminal cases cases in American history. Listen to and follow America's Most Infamous Crimes. Available now wherever you get your podcasts. Looking for your next listen? Check out hidden history with Dr. Harini Bot.

[Courtney Nicole]

Every Monday, Dr. Bhatt goes where history gets uncomfortable vanished civilizations, doomsday prophecies and events that science still can't fully explain.

[Sarah Turney]

Follow Hidden History now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen.