Chris (2:10)

Right.

Adam Kinzinger (2:11)

I think the Democrats have, have moved the needle some in this process. People are talking about, you know, the cost of health care. They've blamed that on Republicans. Republicans took a hit during this that they're not going to necess recover from. At the same time, I do think they should have held out longer. I mean, the pressure was quite intense on the gop. You know, the GOP is really good at. And Mike Johnson, in not bringing everybody in, was really good at kind of saying, like, oh, we've done our job, you know, and so Democrats felt this pressure to negotiate with themselves, when in reality, look, the Republicans own all of government. And all year they have said, we don't need Democrats, we don't need to negotiate, we have full control of government, we don't need to talk to them. And then all of a sudden, Democrats have a little bit of power simply in this idea of cloture, and they have to utilize that. And then it's on the Republicans who control all of government to find a way through that. It's not on the Democrats. Right. And so, yeah, I think, I think the Democratic base is right to be a little upset today. I don't think people should be lighting their hair on fire and saying it's the end of the world, because I do think the, the ball was moved a little bit. So there's good and bad here in all this.

Luke (3:28)

Yeah, I mean, I, I am probably the one that is closest to your position on this, and I am getting quite roasted online. In fact, somebody just, Luke just pointed out, someone just wrote, and they called me a flip flopper and glad that the four other ones are, are holding the line. So I'm getting, I'm getting tossed a little bit here, too.

Adam Kinzinger (3:45)

You'll be a Dino soon. Like I'm a rhino, right?

Zach (3:48)

Yeah.

Luke (3:49)

Well, it's funny because I, I feel as I've gotten older, I've moved more to the left. But on. Anytime you slip up here, especially on threads, it's like the, the Bob comes at you.

Rich (3:58)

I. So my, my problem.

Luke (4:00)

Look, I don't like the deal. The deal is bad. And I agree with you and I think they should have held out loud longer. But it is true that I do think, you know, while this was a cave, there is a victory here because as you said, like, health care is now strung along around their necks. Like there's not much that they could do about that. Also, we saw them basically being willing to let SNAP recipients starve in order to keep this going, which I don't think people fully understood. I mean, I think we know because we pay attention but haven't really paid, you know, really know how far these, these guys are willing to go. In particular, Donald Trump, because he doesn't give a shit about anybody.

Rich (4:37)

Right.

Tim (4:38)

Went to court for the right to let people starve.

Rich (4:40)

Right.

Tim (4:41)

Because that he had to pay several times.

Zach (4:43)

Yeah.

Luke (4:46)

Yeah. So I, I agree with you. I think, like, we should have gone a Little bit longer. And it kind of seems like some of this was an end around on Schumer. But I don't think it's as bad as everyone's making it out to be. But it is really interesting to see the anger on the left.

Adam Kinzinger (5:00)

And can I make the Schumer point real quick though? Like yeah, because I know how this stuff works. Haven't been in it. So Schumer probably wanted this to pass and found the people that would do it. Right. So who are the people that kind of joined the John Fetterman's who have always been voting to open it was people that either just won in a safe district or are not running again. Dick Durbin.

Rich (5:21)

Right, right.

Adam Kinzinger (5:22)

And so I do think this kind of planned. But yeah, I mean, like I said, like, yeah, I agree with you. You Democrats should have held out for more. But you also shouldn't be like, we just got completely run over by the Republicans because you didn't kind of just laid down.

Tim (5:36)

That's, that's really just the way it just laid down.

Zach (5:39)

Let him walk down getting ready to get run over.

Tim (5:42)

Correct?

Grant (5:44)

Run over me, daddy. I mean, I think the fact that the subsidies are still not resolved, it's not going to go away. And so whether this is a win or a loss is really more around messaging and political framing because the pain is still going to hit. I mean it, it is hitting people now. They are shopping for health care and going, holy fuck, it's going to be like I was looking at a chart. There are some states where the average person is going to go from 11,000 to $40,000 a year for health care because these subsidies are expiring. You can't just hide from that. And it was still because of Republican policy they passed the bill. They kept voting to reopen government in spite of Democratic opposition. So all that's going to happen. Channeling my inner Zach here is real consequences are going to land. And as a parent, I'm like, natural consequences are the best teacher. Honestly. Like, you can tell your kid to stop touching the burner, but if they touch the burner once, they don't ever fucking touch the burner again. Electing Republicans is the, is the touching the hot burner. And unless voters actually feel enough pain so they never do it again, we'll keep just sort of doing this harm reduction. Democrats are protecting us from the worst of it thing and they'll keep being in power because it never seems like it's as bad as Democrats say it's going to be. So maybe it needs to get that bad. I don't want it to.

Tim (7:10)

But my problem with that is I do not trust for a single solitary fucking second that Democrats are capable of messaging it effectively to say this is their fucking fault, they did this. There's not a goddamn chance. And that's like up there on my list of problems with the deal.

Adam Kinzinger (7:27)

Yeah. And look, I think all of that is correct. And I struggle a lot with this idea of, okay, you know, as a leader, we have to try to protect people from bad things, but at the same time, when they keep making the same choice over and over.

Rich (7:43)

Right.

Adam Kinzinger (7:44)

And it's more than just like, okay, making a choice because they want a different tax rate than we do or whatever, they're making a choice that basically undermines the rule of law that, you know, basically turns people against each other, that doesn't believe in democracy. And so the question is, what's, you know, at some point they have to realize that, and that's where if we're going to protect people from consequences, they have to get much better at the message.

Rich (8:08)

And wasn't, wasn't there something, I think.

Luke (8:10)

I saw you say, either on an interview or in substack, that basically when you were negotiating with the Democrats, when you guys knew they would not be willing to go as far as you guys to win the shutdown, Correct?

Adam Kinzinger (8:24)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, I think I commented on somebody's point. Joe Walsh had made the point, which is like we always knew they'd capitulate. And, and that's true. You know, you could always. The person, you know, it's like if we all are in a room with a grenade and we each have a grenade, who's the most powerful person in that room? Well, the one that's actually willing to pull the pin. And that's, you have to think of that in a political level too.

Rich (8:48)

Yeah. Well, what do you think?

Luke (8:49)

If they had held out longer, which would have meant snap benefits would have, would have slowly been drawn down because there was only a two or three week emergency fund at the usda. If Democrats had gone beyond that, would.

Rich (9:03)

Republicans have potentially proposed more things to.

Luke (9:07)

Get them back to the pit or were they just doing.

Adam Kinzinger (9:12)

Yeah, I mean, I guess we would never know until we know. But I think here's the thing is like this pressure was ratcheting up pretty hard on Republicans. Right. I don't think, especially because they have in this case a very bad messenger in the president who's actually sometimes good at culture war issues and everything else, but in the case of this, when he's having a great Gatsby party in Mar a Lago, when he's building his ballroom in, and when he's actually, as mentioned, proactively trying to stop snap benefits, this is putting that weight around the neck of Republicans. And I think the pressure would have just ratcheted up on them in the long run. You know, again, we never know. Right? We don't know until we know. But I just know how these things play out. And this was a time where Democrats, I think, could have won the message war.

Grant (10:03)

Yeah, I mean, you just look at like, what, what is Gavin Newsom doing? You know, he's, he sees through the fight to the end. He doesn't step out as the, as the blows are being exchanged, and then saying, oh, this got a little too scary, and then give up. And then, then everybody watching is like, well, that was kind of embarrassing.

Adam Kinzinger (10:24)

Well, it's a lesson from Trump. We need to take as many lessons from him as we can without becoming him. And that lesson is, look, he's done things that people are like, holy shit, there's no way he'll ever be successful in that. And he has been, he's played culture war issues very successfully. He's like, you know, been willing to say things no other president would say, and it's worked out for him. Now, I don't want the Democrats to become the Republican Party of the left because, like, then we'll never have a democracy. We still have to be grown ups. But there was, there is a lesson from that, which is at the time when it feels tough and you're kind of like old instincts to revert to talking points. Come in. You know, this is one thing I've learned, and I learned this on the January six committee. Democrats are much more scripted than Republicans. And in the past, that worked well.

Rich (11:10)

Right.

Adam Kinzinger (11:10)

You know, but now you guys know this, you're involved in social media. People are looking for genuineness. People can breathe, they can, they can sense fake. And so Democrats could use a little more genuineness. Even if you say something stupid, even if you actually say the wrong word, that's what people are looking for.

Zach (11:32)

I don't think the biggest problem that Democrats have right now is that they did not prepare any of their messengers at all for, for this supposed deal.

Rich (11:42)

Right?

Zach (11:42)

I'm, I'm in a bunch of group chats with a bunch of creators, and for the last five weeks, we've all been talking about like, holy shit, the Democrats are actually doing it, right? They're actually Communicating with us. They're actually telling us, like, what their fucking plan is. And like, first of all, I don't consider myself a Democrat first and I'm not talking to any staff or anything like that.

Rich (12:04)

Right.

Zach (12:05)

But the message was fucking clear and it was making it to me. So I understood that we weren't on a kamikaze mission as of 12 hours ago from the time that we're recording this. So all of these creators out here who have been all on the same page with, with the Democratic Party leadership, and there's a clear divide between us, we're not the same thing. Right. We're not carrying the Democrats message. We all feel betrayed because we've been talking to our audiences about why Democrats are doing this and reducing health care costs is worth a little bit of pain. And then all of a sudden, you know, it seems like a handful of Democrats decided everything you've put out there, it's just sunk cost, like your, your reputation, like your, your credibility. To all of these folks who've been out here talking about why it's so important to do, to engage in this fight. It's all burnt. It's all gone. Yeah, like that. That is spent.

Chris (13:10)

Yeah, I understand that. And, and I think they should have done a better job of preparing the off ramp. Right. For whatever that looks like. The problem here, though, is, you know, you may have some, you had a few members that were already going rogue anyway that weren't part of the game, that were always voting to reopen government. And then the pain comes on and you have a few members that come out and say, like, I forget who said it, but like, well, I voted for it because it was clear the Republicans weren't going to capitulate. Well, if you're saying it's clear they're not going to capitulate. They're never going to capitulate because then.

Rich (13:41)

You.

Grant (13:44)

Want to give up, but only if they push harder. And they're like, first one was, it.

Tim (13:50)

Is clear that sticking up to Trump does nothing.

Chris (13:53)

Yeah.

Luke (13:53)

Oh, that was.

Grant (13:56)

Dude, I fucking blew a gasket.

Zach (13:58)

Eat a bag of shit.

Tim (14:00)

Oh, my God.

Grant (14:02)

And he said it gave him more power. I'm like, it didn't.

Chris (14:05)

Lord, no. That's what makes people don't understand, man. You're not going to be in the club, you're not going to be walking in the club until you're on your knees in front of Donald and, and you have to stay there. You can never stand up either. So. And I think a lot of this anger Rightfully, that has been building in the Democratic Party came from the beginning of the year. What happened at the very beginning of the year? Well, they gets sworn in, and then all of a sudden they're off for three weeks. And then they're off for three weeks. And then Doge comes in, this fake agency that starts coming in and cleaning up everything, destroying USA and. Which killed 600,000 people. Elon Musk, who's running around with a chainsaw on stage, who's now worth a trillion dollars. And the whole time, Democrats stayed home. They should have been at every agency demanding entry, because they're on the board of directors for that agency. And then when they didn't get entry, they should have been sent to the. Gone to the courts for entry at that point, you know, but that's. That's a fight they didn't have.

Tim (15:01)

No, they like their little signs, though. This isn't normal. Yeah, they like their little signs.

Grant (15:07)

I think it's like, it's the most. This harm reduction. Like, it's the most academic, liberal approach to solving problems. And it's like, it's been the thing that has been the norm, I think, since Bill Clinton. He was the last sort of, like, guy that if you were gonna fight with him, he was gonna fight with you back. Like, he would hit you back. And he knew how to do that. He knew how to win political fights. You know, I like Obama with a guns and religion comment. I was like, dude, you're not wrong. Don't so stand up for yourself. Like, it's okay to just be an authentic person. You went into a room and said something that was correct and you got busted for it. And then he did, like, this apology tour thing, and it made me so frustrated because it's like, no, it's okay to just stand up for yourself if there's something you believe. Like, you don't have to be perfect. And when you start talking in circles around it and saying, well, what I meant was. What I meant was, like, it's just fucking weak. And it's. It's really. People don't follow weak. Gavin Newsom just said something on a video, or I think he was a guest on a podcast, and he said, the American people, when given a choice, will always choose strong and wrong over weak and right.

Chris (16:15)

Yeah.

Grant (16:15)

And it. And it, like, it broke my soul hearing it framed that way because it's just so brutally true. We. We've been, like, trained by TV to just love these, like, quote, unquote, strong leaders. And that's what Donald Trump does the best as a TV show host. And then you get Angus King. We tried to fight, but it was hard, and so we stopped and hurt my feelings. Nobody follows that.

Chris (16:41)

Nobody wants to do my quick diatribe about how much of a sissy Donald Trump really is. I mean, this is a guy. Listen, there's a guy that on Veterans Day last year or something like that, one of those days, they put out a picture of him in his fucking military academy uniform. Like that was anything. Dude, he was sent to the military academy because he sucked at life, right? And so he wore this fake uniform, and then he runs around, gets out of Vietnam, fine, whatever. Then tries to act like he's this tough guy, empowers Pete Hegseth, who pretends to be some kind of a leader at the Pentagon, when, let me tell you, as a military guy, and Chris knows this, everybody knows. This is like, if you have a commander that comes in that all of a sudden is obsessed about your beards and uniforms and what patches you're wearing, that's a commander that knows he's in over his head. And the only thing he's trying to do is do whatever he can to feel like he's in control. So he throws out terms like lethal, and I'm all for a lethal military, but he throws out terms like you're too fat, or whatever his things he's saying, because it makes him feel in control. Meanwhile, Donald Trump, who's the victim of literally everything, this is the most powerful man in the world. And congratulations, Donald. Against all odds, you got reelected. Now, how about going and actually doing something? But instead, he sits around and whines like a whiny bitch victim. And it is so exhausting. And every Republican man that thinks that's tough is someday gonna have to, like, be so embarrassed when their kids and grandkids look at them. That's my fault, 100%.

Grant (18:09)

Thank you for.

Luke (18:10)

Well, I got a. I've got a question for you.

Rich (18:11)

So I know they won't say it.

Luke (18:13)

Publicly, but how many of these members of Congress privately would do you think, believe what you just said? Or are they all true believers or have drank the Kool Aid so much.

Rich (18:24)

That they don't even know what's.

Luke (18:25)

What's real and what's not anymore.

Chris (18:27)

Listen, so here's the thing. It's. It's tough to realize is, like, Donald Trump has been in our lives for 10 years now, right? So at the beginning, I mean, look, I was. I was looking back at the first Trump term on something I was watching yesterday, and it's like, wow, that looks totally normal in comparison to the second Trump term. Right? And it was crazy in the first Trump term. But, like, so you had, in the first Trump term, people that were still kind of resisting within the administration, members of Congress, you know, like me, that would speak out. But over 10 years, we have either been kicked out of the party, left the party voluntarily, or whatever, and it's become a full call. I mean, I know we use the term cult loosely, but it's an accurate description. And here's. Here's a lesson I always like to pass on to my Democratic friends, which is, okay, you're going to have people over the next few years that say, yeah, I voted for Trump, but I don't like him anymore. And unfortunately, online it's filled with people that are like, told you so. Screw you, you did this, you caused. And it's like, fine, do that. But then expect those people to go back to the team that welcomes them. And Donald Trump welcomes anybody back once, by the way. That's his superpower. Instead, what we need to do is welcome everybody who sees the light. Right? Everybody gets there at a different pace. What we need to do is beat these assholes. And you do that by welcoming people in.

Luke (19:52)

Yeah, I think that's totally right. And I mean, that's part of the reason that we. We started this podcast in this company because Democrats, you know, we started as the white dudes for Harris group last year, and then obviously we saw what happened in November where we. We not only lost white men, but we also lost with black and Latino men as well. And we, we are trying to do our small part one just by existing and showing people that there are men on our side.

Rich (20:18)

But I also agree with you, like, look like these.

Luke (20:21)

Some people, in our opinion, have supported some truly awful things in our perspective. But if people are willing to say, I was wrong and I want to.

Rich (20:31)

Be with you, we have to let them in because they're just other. Well, first of all, it's the right thing to do. Second of all, we just. They're not enough Democrats in this country without that.

Chris (20:43)

Yeah. And by the way, the best messengers. It's why I think us kind of never Trumper or former Republicans are good messengers because we understand how they think. Right. We can. We can get in the mindset. But also, if somebody's left Trump now, then they obviously left Trump for a solid reason. And those are the exact, you know, kind of messages we need to get out there. So it doesn't mean you have to, like, ignore anybody's past behavior, like you said. I think they have to admit, like, yeah, it was wrong, I did wrong, blah, blah, blah. But then we welcome them.

Rich (21:13)

Well, let me ask you. This is.

Luke (21:15)

This is one that's obviously been in the news a lot. What are, what are your thoughts on. On the Graham Platner situation with.

Rich (21:20)

The.

Luke (21:20)

Graham Platner is a progressive candidate. I'm from Maine, so I care about this a lot. But who is running ahead of, or at least tied with Janet Mills, the governor there, but was way ahead until it turned out it looked he had a. I can't forget. Chris, what is the name Totenkamp, which SS officers a lot of them wore in the, in the 40s, and he has renounced that.

Rich (21:43)

Should we. Is that an acceptable answer, or.

Luke (21:47)

I, I'm just curious on your perspective on this one in particular.

Chris (21:49)

Well, first off, it makes me laugh only because I remember the BBC skit where they're like, are we the baddies? We have skulls on our helmets. Right. Look, honestly, like, I don't care is. Here's the question. Do we think Graham Platner is a Nazi? The answer is probably no, or he would probably would not be running for the Democratic nomination. Right. Particularly even to the left of kind of many Democrats in the populace. Now, did he know that that was a Nazi tattoo? I don't know. But I also know as a military guy, when you're drunk and you go get a tattoo, you're going to pick the tattoo that looks cool. Right. And. And maybe that was the case, like, a skull tattoo would look cool. I mean, you may not notice. Croatia, I think. Yeah. It was like Croatian stuff.

Rich (22:35)

They got it off the wall.

Chris (22:37)

Yeah. So maybe. Okay, fine, maybe go get the tattoo masked over or covered up. I just personally look at people's current behavior and I'm like, is Graham. Is Graham a Nazi? No. Okay, then I think he gets a pass on this one. I think we have to be. This is the thing. We have to kind of be forgiving. We're going to start having Gen Z people running for office that have pictures out there, that have texts out there that have tattoos, like, give people grace. That's what I feel.

Tim (23:04)

The only thing I have to say on the grand platinum thing is the only question I've yet to hear him answer. When did you know?

Chris (23:10)

Yeah, well, that's the only thing I want to know. Yeah.

Tim (23:13)

When did you know?

Chris (23:13)

That's a good point.

Grant (23:15)

I just, I, I need everyone in the world to understand, like, we're not electing our moms and our dads and our best friends. Like, we're not. This isn't a. I just want to know, are you a piece of shit? And really more specifically, is your piece of shitness going to turn into votes for things that over everybody or fix things for everybody? It's just this is a transactional relationship based on outcomes. And if we remember that I'm like Grant Platner, he could have been a super piece of shit, whatever, 10 years ago. I love a redemption arc. Sure, yeah. He's still not going to be my best friend. I don't, I don't want to, like, I don't admire him now. I feel like this whole thing was a disaster. But more specifically, if he gets into office, is he going to help more people than the, than the other people on the ballot or is he going to not? And if you just frame it that way, I'm like, okay, I give a lot less of a about all the rest of the stuff that people are talking about. When you just think about the outcomes.

Zach (24:17)

At the end of the day, you know, he is, he is going up against someone who is 77 years old and would be the oldest senator ever elected. And having, having been a Democrat when Ruth Better Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Ginsburg held on too long and died watching Joe Biden, who I have a ton of respect for, but like, he is not the man that he was during Obama's term. Right. Like watching all of these Democrats hold on to power and not allow Gen X, millennials, Gen Z to step into these positions is creating a massive fucking vulnerability all across the entire fucking country. And you know, we're soon going to have Janet Mills on, on this podcast if she doesn't get mad at me for saying this. But like the bottom line is, is like you have failed as a leader. If you are the Democrat governor of a state and there is not a single Democrat in the entire state who capable of being a senator that you, that you have not fucking mentored, that is a giant fucking failure. And she's not the only one. Like it's. The entire Democratic establishment has failed to mentor young people do something.

Chris (25:34)

Yeah. And you see that, by the way, you see it in like the Venezuelan opposition, right? They were too busy competing with each other and wanting to hold power for themselves than they were uniting against Maduro. And that's why that failed twice. Right? And so that's the same situation the Democratic Party. And I've seen it firsthand, which is like, when you have power, it's comfortable and you want to keep it. I mean, being a. Being a senator is no joke. It's a cool gig.

Adam Kinzinger (25:59)

Right?

Chris (26:00)

And. But when you're faced with, do I make this decision for the good of the party or for the country? Unfortunately, too many people don't make that. And that's one thing I learned through all the January 6th stuff, is speaking specifically about Republicans. But I think some of this would confront Democrats as well, which is, like, you always think people have a red line and they're always in it for a greater good, and you eventually realize that's not really the case. So you need to elect a few people that are, and the rest of them just understand what you're dealing with.

Luke (26:30)

All right, I got a. I got.

Rich (26:31)

A question for you.

Luke (26:32)

I think you're going to be willing to answer this because you mentioned the. Some people are in it for the right reasons, and some people are not. Who's the craziest member of the Republican caucus?

Chris (26:42)

Oh, dude, there's so many of them. Honestly, I actually. So there's some smart people that act crazy. So, like Ted Cruz and, like, Josh. Holly. Right?

Tim (26:53)

Raphael.

Chris (26:53)

And there's actually real. Real. Yeah, Raphael. Theodore Cruz. And there's actually real dumbasses. Okay, so I think of, like, Southern Texas sheriff guy, trying to think of his name, and then.

Luke (27:09)

Anyway, you're not talking about Louie Gohmert, are you?

Chris (27:12)

No, but Louie Gohmert's one of those. I mean, he's.

Tim (27:14)

The.

Chris (27:14)

Louie Gohmert's one of the ones. If you remember, during the whole, like, Jade Helm conspiracy where the federal government was going to take over Texas, he was down giving speeches on the floor about it. Marjorie Taylor Greene. I get it. Can everybody quit falling for the Marjorie Taylor Greene has found Jesus thing? Okay? She hasn't. Either she's lying. Was lying the whole time, or she's lying now. She didn't find Jesus. She's manipulating you. It could be a big troll. Or she's running for president. Who knows? But Marjorie Taylor Greene has not found Jesus, everybody.

Tim (27:47)

Every time she smiles, somebody's off screen with a fucking sugar cube.

Chris (27:50)

Totally. Yes. Yes.

Rich (28:00)

Welcome.

Luke (28:01)

Welcome to meeting Luke.

Chris (28:02)

There's some real. There are some real, actual miserable human being.

Rich (28:06)

Miserable human being, yeah. The one that bothers me the most.

Luke (28:10)

Because I think she's faking it, and you can tell me if I'm right or wrong is Nancy Mace. It's just a total. It's total act, like she was supportive of trans rights, like, three Years ago.

Rich (28:20)

And now all of a sudden, she's.

Luke (28:21)

Like, reporting actual women going to the bathroom and all this.

Chris (28:24)

She's what I thought was going to vote to impeach Trump until literally the moment we took the vote.

Rich (28:31)

Oh, really?

Chris (28:31)

Oh, yeah. She was. So right before the vote, I thought it was 25. And then basically, as the vote was happening, I realized, you know, we were gonna lose a number. And I'm like. And so 10 I was impressed with. But Nancy Mason's one of the ones I thought would stick with it. She didn't, obviously. And then whatever she's become, I think she has some real mental health issues right now.

Rich (28:51)

Yeah.

Chris (28:52)

But something's going on and she's faking a lot. No, it doesn't look great.

Tim (28:57)

Lauren Boba, another one. That Halloween costume. Have fun in hell. You're an awful human.

Chris (29:02)

I didn't see it. What is it?

Luke (29:04)

Oh, do you want to explain it, Luke?

Tim (29:07)

Yeah. She was dressed as an immigrant and it was like a.

Luke (29:09)

She was holding up a Mexican immigrant.

Tim (29:11)

Holding up a sign that was.

Rich (29:13)

What.

Tim (29:13)

What was it?

Luke (29:16)

Well, it doesn't matter. Her. Her boyfriend, I guess, because she's not buried anymore, as we know. But I think he was an ICE agent.

Chris (29:23)

Oh, yeah.

Tim (29:24)

The sign mattered because it was making fun of the way that Spanish folks pronounce a word.

Luke (29:30)

Oh, yeah, it was very racist.

Chris (29:33)

Here's the other thing is, like, you can be for border control. You could be for, like, yeah, we have to deport if somebody's here illegally. But I think you have to do that with a heavy heart. Right. Recognizing that people are in desperate situation. They don't come here because they want to leave their home. Right. They're desperate. And what you've seen in this administration, like the celebration that, you know, dragging chains that they're doing, it's. It's depraved. It's punching down Kristi Noem, who's. If you told me eight years ago Kristi Noem would be how she is, I wouldn't have believed you because she's. When she got elected, I got elected with her. She quit doing national TV because she and her husband agreed that she was being objectified on national tv. Now look at her, right? How quickly people fall.

Grant (30:15)

Yeah.

Chris (30:16)

You know?

Rich (30:16)

Yeah. Standing.

Luke (30:17)

Standing in front of the El Salvadorian prison with the forty thousand dollar watch.

Grant (30:22)

Or whatever, what she had on comparison to the Jets. I. I found that. I found this. So she has a sombrero on and this. And she was holding a sign that said Mexican word of the day. Juicy. Tell me if juicy ice coming. And then her boyfriend was dressed up as an ice boyfriend that she was.

Tim (30:46)

Given the handy to at.

Zach (30:50)

The play.

Rich (30:50)

Where there's actual video footage.

Chris (30:52)

Yeah.

Rich (30:52)

Oh Jesus.

Luke (30:53)

Yeah, the family values person.

Zach (30:56)

So guys, we, we got a wrap. Yeah, I've. I just want to bring it back to the documentary real quick since we, we all watched it over the weekend. The last Republican, you know, thank you for, for opening yourself up to the director of Hop Hot Tub Time Machine. That was very fun. At least that part was fun. But as I watched it and as everyone that I've talked to has watched it like it, it really brought us back. And I think that as someone who, you know, I'm a New Yorker, 911 was very close to me. It. I didn't personally lose anybody, but it felt like everyone in my life lost somebody. There is Nothing closer to 911 than the experience of January 6th. I was watching it from the perspect of the insurrectionists. I had infiltrated the 3% security force and a bunch of other unlawful militias and fascist gangs and they live streamed the attack and never have I. The big difference between 911 and January 6th for me was 9 11. I had no idea what was going to happen. Jan6 I was writing reports to the FBI and shit just wasn't happening. Like I knew exactly what was going to happen.

Chris (32:10)

So listen, on January 1st I told Kevin McCarthy in front of every Republican I go, there's going to be violence. You've convinced half the country that the election was stolen. Like we were founded on revolution. Like if I really believed an election was stolen, I would have been there. And he's like, Adam, next color. McCarthy owns this by the way.

Rich (32:31)

Yeah, that was like, go ahead.

Zach (32:33)

The wrap up question for me is like, are you taking care of yourself, dude? Like you, you've been through a lot it through, you know, not just January 6th, the day itself actually physically being under threat, but all of the threats that have come after all of the threats that have hit your family. You know, I've experienced it myself. I know what it feels like to have your parents, your sister, your brother being threatened for the work that you do. Like, how are you doing man?

Chris (33:01)

Yeah, thanks for that. And you know, I tell you what, what also hits is like I had my, you know, a year ago my co p in Iraq that I fought with sent me a text saying he was ashamed to know me. Right. So you and you have those kinds of texts and stuff that come constantly. And look, I don't think I've taken a full inventory of the impact it's had. I've tried and I've started to. And I talk about this in the film, which is like, I feel like a tank that was in a battle in World War II and kind of survived.

Grant (33:30)

Right.

Chris (33:30)

And you could be like, wow, that's awesome. That tank survived. But it doesn't mean you're ready to fight and it doesn't mean you're not scarred. And Yeah, I mean, look, I live and kind of live in this idea of I'm going to walk outside and who knows who's going to be there. But you guys want to hear something kind of crazy? Not once in my life in politics has anybody ever publicly confronted me. I'm not asking them for to, but they haven't. It's crazy. And people just come up and say nice things. So am I taking care of myself? I'm trying, but there's a lot of work to do and I have to be more conscious. And this is for anybody in kind of a similar situation, be more conscious of the impact it has on your family. It took me a while to really appreciate and understand that I was too self absorbed. And now I understand, like this had an impact on my wife and you know, by definition my kid, who's 4. But you know that it has an impact in a roundabout way. But thanks for that.

Luke (34:22)

Yeah. And I'll just. In closing, it was, it was, it was really, you know, powerful to see that, you know, your wife was in the, in the documentary as well and seeing her go through this as well and seeing your family and stuff and you could see that some of the stress on each of your faces because I mean, I can't imagine me like if I had to leave the Democratic Party over something like this, I could imagine how difficult that was.

Chris (34:47)

So it's your whole social circle, right? It becomes your identity, it becomes your social circle. And I've, I'm convinced that people are more willing to put their life on the line than their identity. I think nine out of ten of us would step in front of a train to save a toddler. I don't know if that many people would be willing to walk away from the party. And so it's a lesson to all of us, like, hopefully the Democratic Party never gets there and hopefully the Republican Party someday comes back.

Luke (35:13)

Well, Adam, thank you very much not only for being here, but everything that you have done. I know how difficult that is to, to stand. Well, I can only assume I've never done it, but to stand Almost alone in standing up for what's right. And I know that, you know, we all greatly respect you for doing that. We're really appreciative that you took that stand and joined us today. So hopefully we'll have you back again soon.

Grant (35:36)

Yeah.

Luke (35:36)

And we're going to keep hoping to make sure the Democrats don't screw up their chances in 2026.

Chris (35:41)

I'm here for advice. Anytime. Thanks, guys.

Rich (35:43)

All right, thanks.

Luke (35:45)

Have a good one.

Chris (35:45)

You bet.

Rich (35:47)

All right.

Luke (35:47)

Well, that was great having Adam. I think we're going to keep going here and dive a little bit more into the shutdown because obviously this is the one thing that everybody is talking about and obviously Democrats are livid about this. So let's dive into whether they should be livid or not. I'll start because I think I probably have the minority opinion here. One, I think the thing that was striking in this is that it's very clear that Republicans were willing to let Americans starve in order to get a deal. And where I come down on, I understand why they took the deal is knowing that if they, if they kept going, Republicans were going to be willing to go for a very long time, which likely would have meant that that two to three week emergency fund would have run out, which is the thing that basically the courts were going to force them to use. I think that Republicans were going to let Americans starve to death. And I think that that was something that some of these Democrats just could not stomach. I understand that people are angry about it because on the flip side, not extending the ACA tax credits will affect people's lives. And in some instances, people may pass away because they don't have the health insurance. So it's a really difficult situation. I think. I wish there was more anger directed towards the Republicans for doing this, but I also understand why Democrats are really upset about it.

Grant (37:12)

Yeah. I mean, there are so many layers of the conversation. Right. There's the internal sort of Democratic political angle where we're looking for somebody to go up and fight. We need leaders who, who fight for us, who, who are willing to counter punch, willing to take a punch and stay in there and see it through to a political victory. Because we need.

Tim (37:34)

I've heard enough. Put in Chuck Schumer. Put him in.

Chris (37:36)

I've heard enough.

Tim (37:37)

He's obviously the man for the job.

Grant (37:40)

If we are going to ultimately lead to a midterm win and a 20, 28 win. But along like you when you were in a fight, like you get, you get broken bones, you get Teeth knocked out like you could, your nose could get broken. You're bleeding. Like it gets fucking messy. And this fight is the result of the choice of Americans. Like, I hate to say that, but there, there are consequences to elections. And they cleaned house. They threw out every single Democrat after Biden fixed the whole last fucking Republican disaster. It's almost like enough. Millions of people have never learned this lesson for real. And only if we let it get really bad will, will they learn. Because we keep protecting ourselves, we keep protecting the country. Like looking to this tiny minority party of sort of like weak old people in the leadership, leadership positions to, to protect us from, from what we're doing to ourselves. And I say we as a country. And, and that's just not, it's not, it's not what we can, I don't know. We can't keep doing this. I've seen this movie played too many times. And it's what allows us to keep coming back and electing Republicans because you say, well, it was never as bad as they said it was going to be.

Tim (38:55)

I would have played it right down to the fucking wire. I had to run the emergency funds down to fucking zero and said, all right, this is it. We've done it. We've waited as long as we possibly can. This is it. That would have been a message you could, that's a message you could have spread. But this fucking backdoor skirt around bullshit that, that nobody sees coming.

Luke (39:18)

Fuck that.

Rich (39:20)

Yeah, actually, I agree with that. I.

Tim (39:22)

Some cowardly shit right there.

Rich (39:24)

I think letting it run down and then say we were not willing to let Americans starve. I think that that was probably a good idea. I think one of the problems that's starting to sort of percolate as you know, I talk to people in D.C. and we see more things, is that it does seem like there may have been more than eight Democrats who wanted to end this. And these were the eight Democrats that didn't have re elections in the next four years or are retiring like Jean is retiring. Dick Durbin is retiring. Angus King is 80. He just won reelection, I think at 24. So he probably will not be running again. But it's really interesting to see the anger and I think the rage. And I think pointed out when we were talking to Adam Kinzinger, we've also been building this, this creator, I guess, group or space to, to relay Democratic messages. And the creators that I've spoken to do feel like they were sold out because they were told, trust the Democrats, hold the line, we're Going to get there and then we didn't.

Tim (40:28)

Yeah, I made a whole ass video where I advocated for shutting the government down because I thought, you know, at the end of the day, you can hold something here. I could have not made that video because no, no change. A bunch of people got real scared and got their money withheld, but nothing really changed.

Grant (40:47)

So, yeah, we're in the same position that we, that we all thought we were going to be in right when this shutdown was like about to happen. I think we had this whole conversation where we. I remember sitting down with you guys and we talked about like, this is a bad idea because there's no way we won't this up in terms of a political strategy. We found our way all the way to it up. At least a small handful of people found their way to potentially it up. They haven't officially voted on the final thing. Yeah, but.

Zach (41:19)

Well, I, I think I was the one who was like, yes, it's a we. We were on opposites. I think it was me and Zach versus the rest. But I don't know, we can go back and check.

Rich (41:35)

I think I was in favor of it shutting it down because this is the first time I've ever been in favor of them shutting it down because it's generally a really stupid idea. There is, there is a bit of a trap in this, and it's not going to be clear until later in the year, but this deal, the SNAP benefits have been extended through September 30th of 2026.

Grant (41:54)

Which means, which means I have a calendar.

Rich (41:59)

Rich knows where this is going. They're gonna have to vote on this right before the election. And Republicans are going to have to vote yay or nay on SNAP benefits for poor people. So they're either going to piss off their base who thinks that, quote, unquote, poor people should just work harder even though most of them all have jobs, or they're going to vote against SNAP benefits and piss off the independents and everybody else.

Tim (42:22)

Also, a big portion of their own base who are on snap, by the way.

Grant (42:25)

Yeah, right. Some of these programs are. I don't, I don't have the numbers on snap, but I know on, on the Affordable Care act plans, I think it's 57% are from registered Republican households.

Tim (42:36)

So funny that.

Grant (42:37)

I know, right? Isn't it crazy? You look at Medicaid use, you look at SNAP use, you look at ACA plans that are, that are very heavily subsidized right now, rightfully so, because that's how you take care of people. They are, I think in every case being used by a majority or the majority of the people using them are registered Republican families and very heavily Republican states.

Zach (43:04)

This kind of reminds me of 2020, where going into the election, Donald Trump's people were all like, Covid isn't real. And tens of thousands of them, hundreds of thousands of them perhaps were dying because they were like, no, it's not real. I think that the election could have had different results if, if Trump's people didn't actively seek to get themselves a deadly disease. Like, I think there's a chance maybe 12,000 Trump voters might have died in Georgia. Maybe. I don't know. I don't, I don't have the, I.

Tim (43:42)

Mean, I've heard way crazier conspiracy theories than that.

Zach (43:45)

Well, so, so I, I see this happening again where, where Trump voters are going to, you know, cut off their nose to spite their face and be like, fuck those people with SNAP benefits. Fully aware that they are collecting SNAP benefits and just they're going to literally starve themselves for, for a golden throne room that, that Trump is building.

Tim (44:08)

One thing I always find funny is there's a lot of these pricks that will talk out the side of their fucking head about how anybody that's on SNAP is, you know, they're robbing the government, but they're fucking eligible for it. They're working 80 hours a week so they can put food on the table the whole goddamn time. They're eligible for SNAP because of their income. But no, can't touch that money, that government money. It's fucking absurd. You are in the same spot as these people. You are selling your soul and your body just to say you're better than the person that takes the money.

Rich (44:39)

The myth of the lazy abled bodied person has persisted since the 80s since frankly, Ronald Reagan went after Welfare Queen.

Grant (44:51)

It all comes back, which was also racist.

Rich (44:54)

Super racist.

Luke (44:55)

Yeah.

Rich (44:55)

So like all these people with the patriots say, like, honestly, a lot of our prop. Most of the problems economically in this country started when, when he was president. You could see the, the economic inequality just start to branch out. Right after all of the things that he implemented. And to be honest, with some Democratic.

Luke (45:14)

Support, I mean, Tip o' Neill was.

Rich (45:15)

The speaker of the House. They got, they kept, you know, all these people like, oh, it's when people got, got together and made deals. I'm like, yeah. And it completely us for the next 40 years. So I'm not sure that's the right message on bipartisanship. But anyways, yeah, it's. There are there, there are very few people scamming welfare or SNAP or however assistance you want to it because frankly, like, there just aren't that many people and it's just not a thing. Most Americans want to work, they want to feel valued. They, they don't want government assistance forever. And, but like the Republicans have convinced their base that that is a real thing and so they are perfectly fine with taking this way. I even saw some people and I don't know if they're bots or whatever in some posts where people were like, like, I'm on SNAP benefits, but I'm willing to go, I'm willing to go without if we kill the ACA tax credit. And I'm like, what?

Tim (46:04)

I don't believe it.

Zach (46:05)

There is one group that loves SNAP benefits and it's Walmart and other mega corporations. Yeah, yeah, because we are subsidized when we, when we are paying taxes. And a tiny fragment of that goes towards SNAP benefits. It's not to subsidize people eating, it's to subsidize Walmart and all of these mega corporations who come into small rural areas all around the country, destroy all of the mom and pop shops and then pay everybody minimum wage, cut their hours to make sure that they're not eligible for benefits so that we, the taxpayer, have to keep those people alive because Walmart does not want to give people a living wage. So I think between between now and next year, if this deal ends up getting signed, who the fuck knows between the time we're recording and the time this episode go goes live, what, what could happen? But if this deal does end up happening the way that, that we think it is going to happen, I think Democrats need to really fucking focus their next 12 months of messaging on who really does benefit from Snap and it's fucking Walmart.

Rich (47:18)

Yeah, it's a good point. I, I think that's exactly right. And, and we, that's part of the reason why we should be raising the minimum wage.

Tim (47:26)

Not enough people realize that what the minimum wage actually means is we would pay you less if we could. That's what it means.

Zach (47:33)

Right.

Rich (47:34)

And in some states they have the federal minimum, which I think the Federal minimum is $7.75 an hour. You can't live on that.

Grant (47:43)

You can't do anything with that. In most of those jobs they won't give you full time because they don't want to pay you benefits. And so you're getting 49 and a half hours a week. You're not even making all full time income at that, at that incredibly pathetic level. Not, not to mention not getting any benefits. I think there was one thing I wanted to mention. There's one scenario that I've been thinking of that that could play out with the shutdown strategy, if we want to call it that, by the Democrats that doesn't end up in just like this pathetic failure harm reduction like we laid down and gave up thing that we're used to seeing. And that's if we actually get a standalone vote on the, on the, on the ACA subsidies and it is just a clean vote. Obviously the House will not pass it. The Senate might not pass it, but it will be a vote on that one issue and nothing else. There's no, there's no noise around it. We're just going to draw a line in the sand and say okay, so just so we're all very clear, when given the opportunity to keep health care affordable for millions of low income working families, you guys won't and they're going to vote against it and then that'll be that. And everybody's actual health care costs are going to fucking go through the roof. Like 10 floors up through the roof. And Republicans will have no one to point to but themselves and that one single vote on that one single issue. So, so there is a scenario where this becomes a very crystallized point that Democrats can rail against it. It doesn't. It, it still results in everybody getting hurt. I would rather them hold out on this shutdown and force the issue so that it actually gets extended because I would rather lose a political fight that could be really valuable if it means that people are going to, you know, be helped. But that's the curse of being a fucking soft ass Lib.

Tim (49:41)

Lean heart lib.

Rich (49:43)

Well I, but the rep. The thing with the Republicans though is they were never, they were never going to give on the tax, on the tax thing. They, they just were not because well, they have demonized Obamacare for 15 years now. Fifteen years. And this has been one of their sole priorities is to gut the black president's signature achievement. And I really do believe that that is a lot of what is driving this. Like if we had just called this Romney Care, which is essentially it is the Republican or it's Mitt Romney's this.

Tim (50:15)

Plan because this was the alternative to universal health care.

Rich (50:17)

Right. Because people like Joe Lieberman wouldn't go.

Luke (50:20)

Along with the, with the public option.

Rich (50:23)

Because he had tons of money donors from the insurance industry.

Tim (50:26)

Shocker.

Rich (50:27)

That's and actually the Heritage foundation before they went full on racist, they were part of the crafting of that plan. And now they're just going around because it was named after, well, they named it after the black president. And I keep saying that because that's what they think, think is that why they don't like him? And, and now they're going to gut something that they pushed for for years. So. Because I think if they didn't and they caved, I think their base, they have, they have told their base this is the one of the main things that will quote, unquote, save the economy. So they either depress their turnout by caving to us or they run. They roll the dice with their base in 26 and hold the line. And I think that's what they did. And I think that's why some of these senators were like, we're not going to get what we want. Do we want to hurt people in the process? But I do think, I agree with Luke. I think we should have forced the SNAP thing, made the Supreme Court say that they had to pay it and then say we ran it as far as we could and back out in.

Grant (51:30)

There though we aren't hurting people. We are trying to stop Republicans from hurting people.

Rich (51:36)

Did I say we were hurting people?

Grant (51:37)

You said do we want to hurt people in the process? But I know, I know exactly what you meant. But, but it is so important to me that we keep.

Tim (51:46)

Keep your eye on the real enemy.

Grant (51:48)

The fact is that nothing, we wouldn't be having any of these conversations right now and we wouldn't have the government shut down if Republicans weren't in office passing policies that over people. So.

Rich (51:58)

Right.

Grant (51:58)

We're trying to keep people from getting hurt. And it's a matter of how hard can we fight to keep people from getting hurt because of Republicans.

Rich (52:07)

Yeah. Yep.

Grant (52:08)

Yep.

Rich (52:08)

Well, I, I think we're going to leave it there. But I do want to end on a piece of good news and that is actually from the Supreme Court today, if you can believe it, they turned down the case from, I believe thrice, thrice divorced, three time divorced Kim Davis from Kansas who has been waging a war against same sex marriage since she had to to suffer the horrendous incident where a gay couple asked her to sign their license, their marriage license. And then she's made an entire career out of this. Again, three time divorced. You know, she was protecting the sanctity of marriage and the Supreme Court, which I'm a little surprised just basically said off. Nope, nope.

Tim (52:57)

I'D like to give her a little different spin on that.

Rich (53:00)

Oh, is this.

Luke (53:01)

Are we.

Rich (53:02)

There we go.

Chris (53:03)

Maladapted spider.

Tim (53:04)

Jesus Christ. Imagine spending your entire life so angry that people would choose to live their life just a little bit. Little different than you. I cannot imagine it right in a loving couple.

Rich (53:15)

What a shock.

Grant (53:16)

She's. I think she's actually protecting the sanctity of marriage by getting divorced.

Rich (53:22)

Because, see, I say get, but I.

Chris (53:24)

Bet that doesn't happen very often.

Rich (53:29)

You know what else I.

Zach (53:31)

She's such a terrible person, but I almost feel bad picking on her because she's just a. Such a loser that like anything I say is. Is just punching down. I just feel like we're. I don't know. On a piece of like it. It can't get any worse.

Tim (53:49)

Like, what's the opposite of gilding the lily? I don't know, but that's the opposite.

Grant (53:55)

Shitting on a piece of.

Tim (53:56)

I guess that makes sense.

Rich (53:58)

You know? You know? You know? I don't know. But you know, do you know what's not, guys?

Tim (54:03)

Our merch.

Rich (54:04)

Our merch.

Tim (54:05)

Also, real quick, you know what else isn't the video quality on Tim and my and Chris's new cameras. Not rich because he doesn't set his up. If you want to see it, you should check it out on Spotify or YouTube where you can see the videos.

Rich (54:18)

Oh, look at this. Look at this little pitch.

Tim (54:21)

Huge brain.

Rich (54:22)

Let's grow it up. I love it.

Zach (54:24)

Galaxy brain.

Rich (54:25)

Yes. But back to merch. Yeah, back to Birch. Everybody buy our merch because it's awesome. It helps support the show. This is the most popular one, I believe.

Zach (54:37)

The Five Faces.

Rich (54:39)

Five Faces. It's comfortable.

Grant (54:42)

Against all odds.

Rich (54:43)

Against all odds. Someone did ask us. Someone wrote to me and said, I kid you not. And they were like, it's getting cold up in the. I think it was in the Midwest somewhere. And they're like, we really need some long sleeve T shirts. So we got another request for that. So we're gonna have to make that happen. I have to look into that.

Zach (54:57)

Okay. We just added. We just added hoodies with the five faces. So if people don't have those yet, they can order them. But we're also doing some more. We've got some, like, exciting, like, charity work that we're gonna do with the store. That's.

Rich (55:15)

That.

Zach (55:15)

Not ready yet.

Tim (55:16)

But it's coming.

Zach (55:17)

Get. Get your, your, your trigger fingers ready because there's going to be a get T shirt coming to an online store. Not near you, quite near you near your keyboard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or your mobile phone or whatever sell you.

Rich (55:34)

Well, you can go to findout podcast.com to get that merchandise and you can subscribe to our substack@findout podcast.substack.com thank you very much. Also, let us know what you think about this episode. Hopefully you all agree with me and nobody else so that I don't feel so lonely anymore. But everyone's looking at me like I'm crazy.

Luke (55:52)

Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Zach (55:53)

I have one last thing.

Rich (55:54)

Oh.

Zach (55:55)

So we are potentially likely, almost certainly or definitely moving our Thursday night lives from TikTok. We are. We are moving it to YouTube like that is. That has been decided. We want to know what is the best time for our audience to listen to us go live. We would love your feedback. We've been trying to pick what night, what time is best, but it would be a lot easier for us to figure this out if you just told us. So please do that. That would be very helpful for us.

Rich (56:33)

And subscribe to our YouTube channel, which.

Grant (56:35)

Is also definitely that.

Rich (56:37)

Yes, that's at the Findout podcast. All right, well, thank you to Adam.

Luke (56:41)

Kinzinger for joining us today.

Rich (56:42)

Thank you all for listening and we will be back on Thursday. Have a great day, folks.