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- [00:00]
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Brian Tyler Cohen
Choice hotels get you more of what you value. Here's a little tune to help you remember.
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Luke
Same drive, different day don't you wish
- [01:09]
Rich
you were getting away?
- [01:10]
Luke
Pack your bags and come on through Texas, Ohio, Alaska, we're up there too. Comfort Inn, it's calling your name Save on the stay.
- [01:23]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Oh, and free waffles are yours to claim.
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Luke
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- [02:06]
Tim
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Find out podcast. You've got Rich, Luke and Tim today. Zach is off recording another show, but we have a very, very special guest that most of you probably will know and he's actually one of our first return guests. We have Brian Tyler Cohen with us today. Brian, how are you doing?
- [02:26]
Brian Tyler Cohen
All right. Thanks for having me excited to do this.
- [02:28]
Tim
Yeah. We should also note that Brian, on top of being a huge YouTuber, he has a book that is Coming out on the 14th that I have here, because we're special. Oh, and Luke's got his, too.
- [02:40]
Rich
He's not cool enough for that.
- [02:41]
Tim
Rich didn't get one. Mine has a. Has a signature on this person. Did you get a message?
- [02:45]
Rich
So does mine.
- [02:47]
Tim
All right, I guess I'm not special. But anyways, this book comes out on the 14th of July. You can pre order it now, which you absolutely should do wherever you get your books. Brian, why did you decide to write this book?
- [03:00]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So I thought that it was important to write this now because, look, if we are fortunate enough, if Democrats are fortunate enough to get back into power, take the House, take the Senate, take the White House. We cannot be in a position where we do what Democrats so often do, which is just defer to process and defer to norms and defer to strongly worded letters and symbolic victories and getting caught trying. We have to actually focus on delivering outcomes. And so, look, the subtitle of this book is how to Wield Power in a Post Trump World. I think Democrats have been largely resistant to wielding power. Trump has shown to his credit, and I don't give him credit for much, but this is one thing I will give him credit for, that the institutions of government are not so sacrosanct like you can break these things down to get what you want. The problem is right now, he's doing that for self enrichment. He is tripling his net worth. He's encrusting the Oval Office in gold, building himself a ballroom, trying to prop up a triumphal arch so that he can cement his legacy. All that is for him, we have to be willing to break down these barriers, but for virtuous reasons, to deliver Medicare for all, to make sure that we can combat climate change, to expand voting rights so that everybody in this country has the ability to cast their ballot. So all of those things we can do. But I think there is this sense that when our elected officials get into office, that they're there to protect the institutions of government. They're not there to protect the institutions of government. They're there to deliver outcomes for people. Trump has shown that you can break down these barriers, but we have to be able to do it again for good, to deliver for people.
- [04:33]
Tim
Yeah. And I think in the book, you've, you kind of go back essentially a quarter century, if not more, and lay out the examples where Democrats actually do end up getting control, both of the White House and Congress. And then we play a different game, which is let's get as many Republicans onto Our, our policies as possible, but then has the end result of watering things down. So we aren't actually delivering on anything we promised anyways. Right.
- [04:57]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Either watering them down or conferring goodwill onto the other side and then never reciprocating. Right, like, like offering up, you know, offering up Republicans to have a say on what a health care bill would look like, and then they chip away at it and then don't vote for it anyway, which was the case with the aca. And so my contention is that we have spent so much time thinking that if we just, if we just offer up some goodwill to the right, that eventually, you know, this elusive sense of compromise will, will, will be ushered in and we never get there. So we can either continue doing the same thing over and over and over again and getting nowhere, or we can recog that these are not good faith negotiating partners and we have to make our case to people and once we get into office, show them that we're worthy of their votes, show them that we can actually deliver on some of these things that we've run on instead of either, you know, focusing solely on just mild incrementalism or saying, oh, well, we got, we got caught trying, but ultimately it didn't stick. But hey, wasn't it, wasn't it a great effort by us? People don't care about effort. They care about what their grocery bills look like. They care about what their utility bills look like. They care that we're not in another forever war in the Middle East. And so, so this is our opportunity to actually show that we're not there to, you know, to, to protect the processes of government. We're there to deliver for people.
- [06:22]
Tim
Yeah, I mean, I completely agree. I mean, there's, there's example after example in the book of where Republicans have basically shoved their vision down the throats of Americans, even though they don't haven't really won the popular vote very often in the past 50 years. I think it's like twice. And yet they still are able to do all their things. Trump's doing his big, beautiful bill. And then, you know, you go back to even Talking about the 90s with Bill Clinton where he, like, you know, on the budget stuff that he worked on, where he, where he balanced the budget, like, he brought them into the process. They hacked a bunch of stuff that was really important and then they didn't vote for it at all. And so, like, it doesn't seem like there is any history of this working for Democrats. And I guess a question for you is, do you see a light at the end of the tunnel? Are Democrats finally coming around to it? I feel like I see some of it, but I'd be curious what you think.
- [07:09]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I think there will always be Democrats who are trying to usher in a Kumbaya era of politics. I think the difference now is that that is not the prevailing notion. I think, you know, in large part the Biden era dispelled this notion that we can, that we can all just be this, this big happy family. Look, there's nobody more willing to compromise than Joe Biden, like, legitimately, right?
- [07:35]
Rich
He's America's grandpa.
- [07:37]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Totally. And like, and he offered so much to the other side and, and where did it leave us? It left us in a world where we're in right now with Donald Trump. I mean, this is the backlash to Joe Biden, who is the most bipartisan person you will find, the most deferential person you will find, the most willing to compromise person you'll ever find. And Republicans treat him like he was some, you know, some like, like evil mastermind. And so what does that tell us? It tells us that, that, you know, this notion that we're going to be able to do this with like, hand in hand with the GOP as good governing partners is from a bygone era. And frankly, the Republicans don't need Democrats for anything and they get plenty of stuff done. So my argument here is that is that we need to start leaning on fighters and figuring out people, finding and electing people who are going to fight for what we need to get as opposed to thinking that, you know, hey, if we just for the millionth time confer some goodwill to the other side, maybe this time it'll be different.
- [08:41]
Luke
The thing that I'm stuck on is the, the call for civility is going to be more powerful and more potent and land more effectively for a certain group of people than maybe we've ever seen in our lives after this is done. This is so painful and so toxic and especially for people on the left who are peaceful pacifists. They, they're non confrontational, they're trying to see both sides, they're trying to see every side. How do we balance that? Or I should say, how do we drive the messaging con, the messaging tone over the, you know, two, three years post Trump, either post midterms or post Trump to, to keep people's brains calibrated around the idea that like Trump was this bad, these people are this bad, and the people who voted for him and supported him, they are this toxic, they still support him now after people are dying, after everybody's in misery, after he's declaring new endless wars. Like we can't let the, the window shift back to where it feels normal. Even though that's going to be incredibly appealing and really powerful, especially to those like low information voters. How do we do that?
- [09:51]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I think it's going to be important to, first of all, to message all of this. We had no messaging infrastructure prior to this. I mean like the, the notion that legacy media was going to do that messaging is, is a joke. We had no independent media infrastructure. That's why I'm grateful for the work that you guys do because you're part of this growing left of center pro democracy ecosystem that didn't exist before. And so I think, you know, in terms of making sure that people remember what it was like, it was impossible before because there was, there was nobody to convey that message. Right wing media is so, is so vast and there's so much investment in that space and they're so coordinated that when you have some, you know, if you have a message or a narrative that they want to get through, they just do it. And so now I'm glad to see that we're in a, we're in a situation that's a little bit different where, you know, we've got messengers all across this ecosystem who can offer up a little bit of the truth of what it is like during this moment. But I think in large part, look, I understand that there are going to be people who want to go back to a boring kumbaya politics. I think there's a bigger contingent of people who are angry though, and want to channel that anger into a political party or a political movement that's gonna start delivering. You know, Mamdani is of this millennial generation of politicians where he is relentlessly focused on delivering for people. And I think that in an era where people are starving for some outcomes, that is a good blueprint for what it can look like. For like what, what effective democratic governance can look like. And I think if you take that same degree of, of fight into, into actually delivering health care, into delivering lower food prices, into making housing more affordable, into combating climate change, into making voting rights accessible. I think if you do all of that, I think people are going to see that it's okay to have that degree of fight and passion if it's geared towards something that's going to make their lives considerably better.
- [12:02]
Luke
Yeah, I think that's a. My follow up was going to be like, what are the things we talk about. And I think that's a really good call out because when, especially after the midterms, we know low information voters are going to look at it and say, okay, what are Democrats doing now? And the reality will be like, it'll still be very little at the national level that Democrats can do unless we can take the Senate. But having those local wins, the wins in Virginia, the wins in New Jersey, you know, the wins, and especially in New York with Mamdani, I think, you know, being able to show people some like a micro version of what the future could look like and on a national scale, especially in this transition period out, you know, to where hopefully we have a filibuster proof majority like by 2030 that will be incredibly, incredibly important for us.
- [12:52]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah, I think that's exactly right. We need Democratic governance at the state level to work because that's the only antidote to what's happening at the federal level right now. It's also going to be worthwhile to, you know, if Democrats are able to take control of Congress, to start some investigations into the corruption that we're seeing. Like, I think it's going to be important that people don't think, oh, we've got a Democratic Congress that acts as a check to the President. Now let's hope that we can get health care, let's hope that we can get, you know, voting rights, whatever. You know, let's hope our housing policy. Yeah, I mean, like, it's not going to happen so long as this president is in office, but they can be effective at exposing the extent to which Donald Trump, and by extension his party has just basically legalized corruption. I think that's gonna be effective too. You know, Trump got into office largely predicated on this idea that regular people were being screwed over. And so he groomed them to be especially perceptive to this phenomenon that's happening where there, where there is two tiers of justice and this higher tier can get away with anything they want because nobody's gonna hold them accountable for it. So now they're attuned to this phenomenon like, like never before. So the fact that Trump is now engaging in the exact thing that he ran on, these people see that, like, Americans are not dumb. They see his net worth triple. They all know none of US have gotten 3, 4 billion dollars in the last year and a half. In fact, a lot of the conditions that Trump was able to exploit to win in 2024 have been exacerbated. And so groceries are more expensive, utility bills are more expensive. Health care is more out of reach. So Americans are not dumb. They can see what's happening. And I think spending a little bit of time exposing that corruption with what little power I hope we have by retaking control of the House and the Senate, I think that's going to be effective, too.
- [14:42]
Tim
I think you're right. And I think, you know, I think one of the problems that Democrats have had over the past few elections is that they don't hold the previous administrations accountable. This has happened when Obama came in, like, yeah, well, you know, go back to 2009. No one was held accountable for the financial crisis and the crash that, like, ruined millions of people's lives and wiped out retirement funds across the country. We didn't go after Donald Trump, really. And as you point out in the book, they basically waited a year before starting the investigations into Trump, and then they ran out of time. And I think that people in this country, especially people who don't pay attention all the time, are saying exactly what. Like what Richard said. They're basically like, you guys are just two. Two. Two sides of the same coin or whatever that term is. Like, you're. You're the same because you don't. Yeah, two wings is. You don't hold people accountable. And I agree. I.
- [15:34]
Evan Osnos
They need.
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Tim
I mean, I don't know if AOC wants to do oversight, if she has her eyes on a different job, but, like, we need somebody like that holding these guys accountable. And I think we can't have what happened two years ago or whatever it was when they basically picked the next person in line who was Jerry Connolly, who had stage four cancer and died five months later, but it was his turn. We've got to stop that stuff is what this. Like, you are earning like these are. That you deserve the next step because you've been there the longest is madness.
- [16:06]
Luke
It's a geriatocracy, right?
- [16:08]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah, it is. 100%. It's. It's a joke. And I mean, like, if you're wondering why we don't have effective messaging, it's because all of the positions of leadership are saved for people that are octogenarians at this point or, you know, on their literal deathbed. That is crazy. In the Democratic Party, we need. We desperately need Democratic officials to step aside so that we can have a new generation of leadership. It is so fucking unacceptable that we are waiting for people to die in office before handing the reins over to other people who are. Who are perfectly competent and willing to lead. So I think. I think that, you know, if these people aren't gonna willfully, willingly give up power, then I, I hope and pray that we have a new generation of officials that, that are gonna primary them or that are gonna, you know, challenge them for these, these chairmanships and the gavels. But we desperately need some generational change because we also need people who are willing, who are capable of, of talking to people on the mediums that people get their information on. Like, I don't want to see a front facing camera video from somebody who's 87 years old. I want to see people who know what they're doing. There's a reason that AOC gets all this attention is because she's of this generation. There's a reason that mom Donnie does. It's authentic for you.
- [17:23]
Rich
When half of the face is off camera and you can see them looking off camera at the teleprompter.
- [17:29]
Luke
I love. Do you guys remember, do you guys
- [17:32]
Brian Tyler Cohen
remember the, the Mark Werner video with the tuna fish?
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Tim
Oh, yes. What was the.
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Rich
I vaguely.
- [17:39]
Tim
Tell the, Tell the story. I can't really remember, but.
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Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah, I can't remember it that well either. But I think he, like, his first foray into like, content. Like, as we know, it was like him microwaving a tuna fish sandwich, if I'm not mistaken. And it was so bizarre. And I was just like, why can't we get a millennial to run progress?
- [17:58]
Tim
It's, it's not hard, guys. Just be authentic on camera. Don't try to do like whatever the latest TikTok dance is or what is like, stop. Just be a normal human being. I mean, we joke.
- [18:09]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Leave the TikTok dances to lose the.
- [18:11]
Luke
Yeah, yeah.
- [18:12]
Rich
I don't dance. I can't.
- [18:13]
Luke
I Google boy moves. I was not familiar with the sandwich scandal, and so I googled it and the top headline is, senator Mark Warner goes viral for sandwich.
- [18:23]
Tim
Yeah.
- [18:24]
Luke
I mean, that's not a headline anybody needs.
- [18:26]
Tim
But we joke about it. I mean, we, we did a State of the Union live show in D.C. and Congresswoman Sarah Jacobs showed up, who's a Californ third or district or something like that, San Diego. And I didn't know who she was at first, and she was in the room and I was just like, who is that person? Because I didn't know. They're like, oh, it's Congresswoman Jacobs. I go, that can't be because she's talking like a normal human being.
- [18:47]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
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Tim
And it's true.
- [18:48]
Rich
It's just 80 years old.
- [18:49]
Tim
She's 37, 38 years old. And having a normal conversation. And it's just true, like some of these generation, older generations, they didn't come up with this stuff. They're trying to force their way in. And it's like, I'm sorry, But if you're 80 years old, you should be retired. We all should be retired.
- [19:06]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Like, there are, there are a lot of, you know, there are older folks who are super effective. I mean, I will, I will always have a place in my heart for Elizabeth Warren. You know, she, she's certainly not in her 30s, but, but I think just more broadly, I mean, you know, the Gerry Connelly example is, is a, is a perfect example of like, there has to come a point where maybe you're not serving your constituents to the best of your ability. And it is not the worst thing in the world to step aside so that somebody who is 40 or 50 years younger than you, certainly just as capable and able to operate in a media ecosystem where people actually consume their news might be a better option.
- [19:46]
Tim
Right?
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Rich
I don't know. I don't know. Mitch McConnell might be medically brain dead and he's still accurately representing his constituents, right?
- [19:53]
Tim
Oh, my God.
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Brian Tyler Cohen
Can't think, I can't think of a better, better representative for his people than Mitch McConnell right now at this exact moment.
- [20:01]
Tim
I also find it really funny that like Scott Jennings and a whole bunch of other people yesterday were like, oh, I talked to him. I talked to him for 20 minutes and we talked. We was dialed in and he was da, da, da, da, da, da. And then there was this whole joke online where people were like, oh, I talked to Mitch McConnell and he said that we should have Medicare for all.
- [20:16]
Brian Tyler Cohen
You know, there's all these jokes.
- [20:18]
Tim
It's not believable.
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Brian Tyler Cohen
My favorite was Aaron Parnas who just responded to Scott, to Scott Jennings and said, did he talk back?
- [20:25]
Tim
Scott Jennings?
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Brian Tyler Cohen
I Talked to Mitch McAno.
- [20:28]
Luke
We had a long conversation, mostly one sided.
- [20:31]
Pharmaceutical Ad Narrator
Yeah.
- [20:32]
Luke
Brian, one of the things I love most about your work, just to butter you up a little bit, is you're, you're really in. Salty. Didn't get a book. You're. Please send me a book.
- [20:41]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Rich will get his book today, I promise you. Okay.
- [20:43]
Luke
I don't actually have a question if I'm going to get a book. No, you're a narrative guy and I really love that. And so back to the conversation before we ping Pong to 700 times, but specifically on the topics where we want to push on accountability, on the Trump administration. I know that, like everybody's going to yell Epstein like, we need more Epstein. Everything that is true, but I think that has always been more salient with the far right, the conspiracy crowd. Like, there's a certain group of voters who care exclusively about Epstein, and I think there are tens of million more voters who are more concerned with, like, their pocketbook and the economy and stuff like that. The things I'm looking at personally, I mean, like, there's the crypto scam where a million Trump supporters lost money so that he could make almost 4 billion, billions. And all of his people, they all, you know, they bought early and sold like they, they. I'm calling it a Trump and dump, but they pump and dumped their own people. Like, that's one big thing. The other one is I just saw a report from CNN this morning on the complete chasm in intelligence around the school bombing in Iran, where they just overlooked and ignored a bunch of things that would otherwise be surfaced. So you've got like, the war crime angle, you've got the personal finance, you know, scam, crypto bullshit, accountability angle. What do you think are the, the broadest, most salient topics for us to push on with account when it comes to accountability, like, as we get through the midterms.
- [22:17]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah, it's. It's a great question. And in fact, I spent a lot of time in the book thinking, like, what is going to be more important? We have to have a proactive agenda so that people have something to vote for. And that's why I get into the climate change stuff and the healthcare stuff and election stuff and a just economy and, and court reform, all of that. But then I was like, okay, if you don't hold people accountable for the corruption and criminality that they're committing right now, then you end up in a situation like we're in today where, because there was no deterrent effect, these people think that crime is legal. And the reality is you have to do both. Like, I was not willing to say one or the other because you have to be able to do both. You have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. You can have no faith in your government if that same government is not willing to uphold the law because the people who are breaking the law are of a certain political party. That's crazy. I mean, that's what Merrick Garland did where he basically said, I'm more focused on preventing the optics of politicization than actually enforcing the law without fear or favor. So I think that's gonna be, you know, I think that for anybody who says, like, which One is more important. They're both just as important. But to your question, I think in terms of what needs to be dealt with, I mean, you know, this is gonna seem like a cop out, but it has to be all of it. I mean, the short sales that we're seeing, where all of a sudden, you know, stocks are either bought or sold five minutes before some major announcement that is illegal. And, in fact, I'm of the mind that Letitia James, because this all has to do with the stock market, is on top of all of this stuff. I was interviewing her a few months back and asked her whether I knew that she wasn't gonna comment on an ongoing investigation. And she was pretty clear about that. But I was able to ask her what I thought was a pretty. If I could blow smoke up my own ass, pretty clever way to get around it, and basically said, like, is this under your jurisdiction? Any financial crimes where you have short sales or insider trading, is all of that under your jurisdiction? And she was like, yes, that is under our jurisdiction in the New York AG's office. And that's all she would tell me. So I have every reason to believe that all of this isn't going unnoticed by Letitia James. But also, there will come a point where we have a Department of justice that's willing to uphold the law, too. And so they can and should and frankly, will be good partners at investigating a lot of this stuff. But I don't think that you have to choose. I mean, you see the extent to which this DOJ is expending what little resources it has on the stupidest shit in the world. I mean, they were trying to prosecute that guy who threw a sandwich at, like, a police officer, right? Yeah. At an ICE officer. We have. We have people who are getting pro. Like the. They're trying to prosecute the Olympic canoeer. I mean, it's just. It's just crazy, the things that they apparently have resources to expend on. So I think that if you were to take those resources and you'll have, by the way, more prosecutors come back to the DOJ when we're. When we're not in the Upside down, and you can put people on all of these crimes, and you don't have to choose whether we're going to just investigate, you know, the Trump family's corruption or, you know, these illicit pardons or these short sales or whatever it may be, I think you have to do all of it. And frankly, I hope that everybody who's engaging in corruption, because right now, because they think that crime is just legal forever in America.
- [25:52]
Luke
Yeah.
- [25:53]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Understands that. Understands three words, and that is statute of limitations.
- [25:58]
Luke
Yep. So.
- [25:59]
Rich
So I hope they don't understand it.
- [26:04]
Luke
There's no statues in my town, so I would. I would suggest that we have a name for this whole project then, and I would call it, like, Operation Epic Karma or something like that. Maybe we just like the name because that's. That's the one thing that they do so well is, like, they pick the right altitude that people. That people understand, and then they give it. They brand it at that altitude, and then they're just like, well, you know, what's up with that? And you can just kind of. It's a catch all, rather than trying to say, well, the, you know, statute 12, 8, 72B. And, like, 100%.
- [26:39]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I mean, like, 100%. We have to get much better at marketing and talking like normal people. I mean, even when we talk about the filibuster, like, nobody knows what the fuck a filibuster is. And. And so I think that's a big lesson that we can learn from Trump is like, you know, he repeats himself a lot, which I think that people on the left don't do, because you try to treat your audience with some degree of respect. And if I were to repeat the same thing 10 times in this interview to you guys, you'd be like, we get it. We heard you. But Trump does it. And frankly, it's effective because how many people don't know, lock her up or Build the wall or make America great again? So there's a lot of, like, marketing, you know, marketing lessons that the left can learn in terms of the simplicity with which we speak to people, the language that we use when we speak to people, and, you know, I think that will pay dividends.
- [27:36]
Evan Osnos
Right now, news and politics are moving awfully fast. It can feel overwhelming, to say the least. I'm Evan Osnos, a staff writer for the New Yorker. On the political side podcast. We slow things down to understand how power really operates in Washington, D.C. and what it means for you. My co hosts, Jane Mayer and Susan Glasser and I have decades of reporting experience. And every Friday, we have conversations with insiders and experts to understand the forces remaking America. Join us Fridays for the Washington Roundtable from the political scene on Mondays and Wednesdays. You can also hear insightful episodes from our New Yorker colleagues, David Remnick and Tyler Foggitt, available wherever you get your podcasts.
- [28:26]
Tim
Yeah, I completely agree, and I want to kind of shift to the, you Sort of started to allude to this, about the messaging and the marketing around this stuff and the fact that the Republicans have essentially had a right wing media ecosystem essentially since the 90s when Fox News started. It has only grown to also include podcasters and influencers and all this stuff and they've invest a ton of money into it. And so that those people on that side generally don't see anything that any of us talk about. I'd love to hear like where you would like to see the left leaning media ecosystem go because I still think a lot of people, including electeds and big donors, do not understand the disadvantage that we are currently facing.
- [29:10]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I want to see as many people in the pro democracy ecosystem as humanly possible and I don't want to see necessarily a few companies get huge. I want to see as many people into this ecosystem as possible. Because you and I, you guys and I may talk about very similar things, but we're not going to have 100% overlap in our audiences. And myself and Midas Touch, Midas Touch and Pacman, Pacman and Kyle Kalinsky, Kyle Kalinske and Tyt. Everybody, like, even if, even if there's overlap, everybody is going to be able to reach their own specific vertical of people. And certain people may like something that one person has to say, but not another. And so the more people, the more bites of the apple we get by having more voices in this space, I think the better off we'll be. And so I want as wide a pond as we could possibly get so that we can catch as many people in it as possible. Look, I'm not going to be everybody's cup of tea. That's fine. There are going to be people more moderate and more progressive than I am and that's great. That's why we need more voices in this ecosystem. So I think that the silver lining of getting our asses beat so badly in 2024 was that very quickly our elected officials woke up to the fact that independent media not only exists but is important enough to swing elections. And, and so whereas normally the Democratic Party turns as slowly as a cruise ship, we had a pretty quick adoption of independent media or acknowledgement that independent media is important. So we have that going for us. And so at this point now I think it's just a matter of getting as many people into the space, getting as many voices into this space, supporting them, collaborating with them, and building up this ecosystem so that when new people log on to YouTube or Facebook or Twitter threads, Blue Sky, Snapchat, TikTok Instagram, whatever it may be, that they're not automatically sorted into some right wing rabbit hole. So again, like I, you know, I know I said this just a few minutes ago, but I'm really grateful for the work that you guys are doing because you give a landing spot for some of those folks who come into this space. And I know that you're very open too about the fact that, you know, what you guys focus on is persuasion. And that's what I do as well. And I, I think the more voices in that space, the, the, the better off we'll be at grabbing a lot of those people who otherwise I think would have been really up for grabs by the. Right.
- [31:37]
Tim
Yeah.
- [31:37]
Luke
And I, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta give credit where credit is due. Joe Biden's campaign was not particularly effective at social media. It was Kamala Harris and her absolutely unhinged, brilliant TikTok strategy that got, I mean that's, I, I started getting invested in TikTok. Like when I predicted Tim Walls as her VP candidate, that was my first viral video as a political creator. Wasn't that long ago, like almost exactly two years ago actually. She went all in. We all met from through, you know, white dudes for Harris and, and she really inspired that. The whole massive adoption of just sort of social and creators everywhere. I mean, she had the Oprah event where she had people, you know, she like, my face is up on.
- [32:23]
Tim
We were there.
- [32:23]
Luke
You were there.
- [32:25]
Tim
Not me, Ross from the, the guy who came up with it was there. Yeah. And he talked.
- [32:29]
Luke
They used a clip from one of my videos about her housing policy on TikTok. I didn't even know. I just saw myself on Oprah one day and was like, oh, Kamala Harris. So I mean, for all of the things that could have gone better in 2024, Kamala Harris really ripped off the band aid and just sort of poured fuel on this sort of social chaos and just given her a shout out since that's how we all got started.
- [32:53]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And look, you know, it's it for, for, for you guys, it'll be the Harris campaign. For other people, it'll be watching AOC for other people. It'll be Bernie's campaign that focused on digital for folks, you know, who were, who were around, you know, almost 20 years ago. I mean, Obama's campaign was, was, was one of the first ones that, that, Yeah, I mean, Tim, Tim, you know better than anybody was one of the first ones that, that leaned heavily into, into the digital media space. So if that's not if that's not like a testament to the fact that if you invest in this space, you pick up people. I don't know what is like whether it's, whether It's Obama in 2008 or Kamala in 2024. I mean like every time people invest in that space and you build your communities, it pays dividends because then you grab people on the way. And, and so I hope other Democratic elected officials see that and say like, hey, you know, every, every time we, we, we, we show, we again, invest in this space, like we have the opportunity to, to, to adopt people who will then become lifelong supporters and advocate for our cause. And so look, invest in this space, you'll, you'll, it will pay dividends. All of us on this call right now are a testament to that.
- [34:06]
Tim
Yeah, and I, I want to point out something that you started with last year, which is the organization that you started, Chorus, of which we have all been a part of, which is a, an incubator for creators to give them the tools that they need to be self sufficient so that they can become full time creators. Because what we see on the right is that they are all, well, they're, they're all well funded, they're all making money. And our side, it's this like little couple people trying to do this. But you, you know, you've created an organization that is helping to solve this problem. And I think we've seen, and I've seen the numbers like mil, tens of tens of millions of followers and views that don't really overlap that much. And so the theater system is starting to be built and I just want to acknowledge it because it's been such an important element even for our growth to be able to like do some of this, this stuff and then hear from all the experts that we could take back to, to find out. So it's been incredibly valuable for folks that, that exists.
- [35:05]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I appreciate that. But yeah, I mean, look, you, you guys, your success is a testament to the success of the program because our goal at Chorus is, is to make sure that we can build up this, this ecosystem as much as possible. And, and again, you know, you're, you all are here and so, and so it works if we just have some investment.
- [35:24]
Tim
Well, I'm going to give you one final question before we get you out of here because we said 30 minutes. We've bled over a little bit. How are you feeling about the future as far as the Democratic Party and our abilities to get past Trump? Because obviously part of this book is how to wield power in a post Trump world. We're not quite there yet. How do you feel today? I'm sure it'll change tomorrow, but how do you feel today about hope in the future?
- [35:48]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't have hope, misguided though it may be. I don't think any of us would be doing this if we thought it was legitimately doomed. So, again, we may be naive to have to have that feeling. But. But, you know, judging just by the midterm cycle, by these special elections, the extent to which progressive candidates are overperforming, that gives me a little bit of hope for the future. I'm going to give an anecdote to answer this question. A few months back, I had been sitting with Gavin Newsom in this studio where I am right now, and I asked him about his thoughts on Supreme Court expansion. And he was chilly to the idea, decidedly unreceptive to the idea of court expansion. And my theory of the case is like, you're going to do all this work, you're going to try to win the House, the Senate, the White House, and then already like a Herculean feat, and then pass some progressive legislation and even more Herculean feat, and then just leave in place a veto that's gonna strike down any and all progressive legislation and just be okay with that. So, like, it seems so obvious to me that you cannot leave in place a 6, 3 conservative court. I asked him about court expansion and he was like, eh, you know, I don't know about that. And so, you know, like, that's tough for somebody like me to hear because if you want meaningful, lasting change, you don't get that done with this Supreme Court in place. Okay, I'm sitting with Newsom on his podcast, this is Gavin Newsom. And he interviewed me about this book where it is basically a blueprint to try to get Democrats to wield power in a more effective way or to actually wield power at all. And got the opportunity to make my case for court expansion and sat there for five minutes or 10 minutes and made the whole case about why court expansion is important from both a historical perspective, a moral perspective, an electoral perspective. And his response was, I'm coming around to that idea. I'm tired of winning arguments we have to win. And so that was just one anecdotal moment. But in a conversation where I got to talk about a book which was a blueprint for Democrats fighting, I got to convince or persuade a Democrat to fight. And he was receptive to that idea. And Gavin Newsom is one of the top polling candidates for 2028. And so if, if he's open to this, I think that other Democrats, whoever the president may be, whoever the, the party leaders may be, could all have openness to this idea that the time for symbolic victories is behind us, that we actually have to start delivering and not just winning arguments, but winning. And so I've seen that receptiveness firsthand. And I think if, if Gavin Newsom, who is a pretty avowed institutionalist, I mean, I've sat with him at the, I interviewed him about his book at the Kennedy Center. I mean, talk about, you know, an institution. And he was, I mean, you know, he was very overtaken by the history of the space. And so I've seen the extent to which he can be moved by the institutions and the history of our government. But even if for someone like him, he could be receptive to this idea of actually, you know, barreling through some of these norms and just, and just figuring it out so that we can start delivering, I think anybody can be. So I am, I am optimistic about what a Democratic Party of the future, which is to say now, can look like. And I, and I certainly do hope and think it'll be different from the party of strongly worded letters that we've seen in the past.
- [39:16]
Luke
I would ask anyone who is waffling on this subject, who wants to be in Democratic leadership, look at what Republicans have agreed to and what they've given up in order to serve Trump. And I know Democrats are not the same as Republicans, but they don't even have, they, they haven't had a party for, or a platform for seven years because they just say whatever Trump says is our platform. And also look at how far you can actually push progress before it hits the, hits the courts, before the courts actually stop it. They can't do universal injunctions anymore. They can't cherry pick your judge. You have to actually certify classes to stop things. And it has to get to the Supreme Court. You can, you can push and push and push and make them stop you rather than just assuming you're going to get stopped. And so you never try.
- [40:03]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah, I completely agree.
- [40:06]
Tim
And I think that, you know, I think this new left leaning independent media, as you're pointing out, I think is in a better position to push for this stuff than say like the, the legacy or corporate media, which didn't have any interest in doing this. And I think we've seen the sort of over to a window where they have moved more, right, to try to stay in the center. And I think people have had it. I think that's why, you know, I think that we are growing and they are shrinking. I mean, some of them are self immolating like CBS News. But you know, I just think people are just not interested in it anymore. So I think that it's time for us to stand up. So with that, Brian, we're gonna, We're Gonna Let yout Go. One final plug for the day after, how to Wield Power and a Post Trump World, which is available on the 14th, but you can pre order it now and then. There are also some tickets left. Brian's doing some in Person, Louisiana, New York, dc. Did I get that right?
- [40:55]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yes, yep, that's correct. So I'll be in D.C. on July 14th. Yeah, yeah. All the liberal hellscapes. Make sure to get all of them. I'll be in D.C. on July 14, New York on the 15th and LA on the 18th. Tickets are still available so you can grab them at brian tyler cohen.com book and would love to see in Person.
- [41:13]
Tim
God, he does that so much better than I do. Maybe, maybe I just, maybe I have a few more years under my belt. I'll be able to actually do it that smoothly. But anyways, Brian, we've obviously been big fans of yours and have become friends, which we really greatly appreciate everything you have done. Everybody go buy this book. Go see him if you're in one of those liberal hellscapes. I will actually be out of town on the 15th, so unfortunately I will not see you. But till next time, thank you, Brian. And we will be right back after this. And we're back, everybody. Boy, Brian Tyler Cohen is one of the best guys. He is also, not only is he great on camera, he's just a nice person and so it's always the coolest.
- [41:50]
Rich
My mom is so jealous every time I get to talk to him.
- [41:52]
Tim
Yeah, my mom's friends that I also am friends with are like, I watch him obsessively. So when I told them that he was a buddy of mine, they, they kind of lost it.
- [42:00]
Luke
But his, his delivery is, is like what I aspire to. He, he, he says things so succinctly and so eloquently and I, I just, it takes me like seven minutes to say something that takes him like 45 seconds to say.
- [42:14]
Tim
Oh, that's why I made that joke at the end where he was like, went into the whole sales pitch and I'm like, that is so smooth. But you know, he was an actor.
- [42:21]
Luke
Really? That's a cheat code.
- [42:23]
Tim
Yeah. So anyways. Well, I don't know if it's a cheat code.
- [42:26]
Rich
Did you listen to that? Did you listen to Trump speech this morning? I don't think that was very succinct.
- [42:32]
Luke
The Department of Japan or the Republic of Japan?
- [42:34]
Rich
The Islamic Republic of Japan. I must have missed when they turned into an Islamic republic.
- [42:40]
Tim
You know, I hate to do this, but if Joe Biden had said that it would be A1 news all across the country. Well, it's just baked in with this guy.
- [42:48]
Rich
Radical left lunatic. You could call me a peace loving commie. I don't give a fuck what you call me. The President should be able to name the country that he's been bombing innocent civilians in for the last six fucking months. He should not be confused about which country it is.
- [43:03]
Tim
Well, especially since apparently the ceasefire broke this morning. So we are back at it. So even though Donald Trump closed. Yeah, so even though Donald Trump gave them everything that they want. Oh God, my son's home. Everything that they want. We're still back into the war.
- [43:21]
Luke
Yeah. I was, I was told that this war had been won and that their military was totally and completely obliterated, that their nuclear program was obliterated. The enriched uranium was, you know, seven miles.
- [43:32]
Rich
Animals.
- [43:33]
Luke
I'm starting to. I'm starting to feel like this whole thing is just like a house of cards, just a shell of lies.
- [43:40]
Tim
Are you suggesting none of this was real?
- [43:42]
Rich
I'm starting.
- [43:43]
Tim
Donald Trump wasn't telling us the truth.
- [43:45]
Luke
I'm not convinced the Strait of Hormuz even exists. I think they just made this.
- [43:49]
Tim
Yeah. Where is that? That's not a thing. And why can't we just dig out from underneath that edge there and like,
- [43:53]
Rich
have you, have you seen the people that are. Like, why don't we just dig through that giant fucking mountain range? Let's just dig a new trench.
- [44:01]
Luke
While. While drones are.
- [44:03]
Rich
I actually think lately he's been. Trump has been so fucking obsessed with the Panama Canal and I think that's why. Yeah, I think he thinks he could make a new canal through there and it would be the alternative to the Strait of Hormuz and he would be
- [44:16]
Luke
like Teddy Roosevelt, the Maga Canal.
- [44:18]
Rich
Can you imagine now, exactly.
- [44:20]
Tim
If they actually tried to do that? Like, I love it. First off, wouldn't Iran just bomb the shit out of it? Like, regardless of the physical, like, can you physically do it? But, like, wouldn't Iran just sit there and like fire rockets at you as you're like digging or like the battery
- [44:36]
Rich
drone that I have found very interesting is there's not really any way out for him.
- [44:42]
Tim
No.
- [44:42]
Rich
Because all it takes, all it takes for Iran to fuck over the American economy is a cheap fucking drone. About every six months, they're like 500 bucks, right? Random tanker, $500 drone. And now the US economy's fucked.
- [44:57]
Tim
Well, if you look like this is also how. Excuse me, Ukraine's been so successful lately against Russia is that they have also perfected the art of these cheap drones and then they send hundreds of them. And so imagine trying to knock down hundreds of drones. Some are always going to get through. And they're getting drones into. Into Moscow and places like that. Like they are. And so it's the same scenario here. Like you said, Luke, it doesn't take that much. And now they want us there. They want us there because they know they can grind us down. Because Donald Trump will not say, we're out and we lost and we're out, but there is no way that you could. You could say that we have won anything here.
- [45:34]
Luke
Was that. Well, even if.
- [45:35]
Rich
Even if he says we're out, we're gone. What's he going to do? Demand that they let ships through the Strait of Hormuz? They don't have to do that. They have drones that will fuck a tanker. I'm not letting you in.
- [45:47]
Tim
Right. And no tanker is going to go through there because they're not. They're not fortified. So they're not have him by the
- [45:53]
Rich
teeny tiny mandarin oranges because he listened
- [45:56]
Tim
to two of the biggest on earth, B.B. netanyahu and MBS, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, were the two people, two essentially strong. But I know that Bibi's democratically elected, but, like, pretty corrupt, dude. Like no other president in U. S. History. Listen to those two. None of them on both sides. And Trump comes in, he goes, oh, that sounds like a great idea. Let's go ahead and do that. This will be quick. Nothing military in the Middle east is quick for centuries. You could talk about the Crusades. You could talk about, like, the Soviet Union, Afghanistan. Just. Can we just stop doing this? Well, it doesn't work.
- [46:35]
Luke
Did you guys see the quote from Trump that resurfaced from 2020? There's always. There's always a tweet, he said, always. Iran never won a war but never lost a negotiation. He posted that on Twitter on January 3, 2020. Iran never won a war but never lost a negotiation. He walked into a trap that he predicted before. He literally, I mean, that's the thing, right?
- [47:03]
Rich
Like this all kicked off in, what was it, February at this point. And every one of us with an IQ above room temp went, well, we're fucked. Minimum a year. We're in this. And everybody, all of the MAGA Republicans were like, no, no, no, he's going to bomb them in two weeks. He's going to blow him back to the Stone Age and it'll be done
- [47:21]
Brian Tyler Cohen
and everything will be great.
- [47:22]
Rich
And all of a sudden, no, that's not how it's going to fucking work. And here we are six months later and we're no closer to leaving than we were then.
- [47:30]
Luke
This is.
- [47:30]
Rich
We've had approximately 39 times where the war has been over and not fucking one of them has stuck.
- [47:37]
Luke
It's every Friday when he want work week to end, he just declares that the war was won. And then he goes engulfs for two.
- [47:43]
Rich
Well, it's not like declaring bankruptcy like Michael Scott.
- [47:47]
Tim
I declare bankruptcy.
- [47:48]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I declare the war is over.
- [47:49]
Rich
And Iran says, fuck you, here's a drone.
- [47:51]
Tim
But the, but the IMF is now reporting that the, the global economy is going to, is going to have a slowdown because of two things. The war in Iran. Sorry, I've got a child next to me. War in Iran and inflation, which were both things that he did. They're 100 his fault.
- [48:08]
Luke
No, those were Joe Biden's things.
- [48:09]
Rich
All right, well, we lost Tim here because his child came home early, but
- [48:14]
Luke
no, I mean, got Gremlin into, into outer space, just like.
- [48:19]
Rich
Yeah, there's just suddenly a little hand came on the, out of the, off the edge of the screen. No, anybody that was like, is like, surprised by this. I, I question your, your iq, honestly. Yeah, it's not a shock. We've been afraid of, this was predicted.
- [48:34]
Luke
Yeah. For, for 50 years. We've been afraid of dealing with Iran for 50 years. Like, I mean, we've been, we have been dealing with Iran for 50 years. Was that the, when the first Ayatollah was. I don't, I'm not a, I'm not a Mideast history buff, but I know in the 70s and 80s it was a mess. We kind of got to a sustainable place until what, about 20 years ago? And it just keeps getting worse. And at least it was sort of with like Ahmadinejad, it was at least sort of balanced. And George Bush was, for all of his faults, he knew you could attack Afghanistan, you could go into Iraq, you could deal with Syria, you could fight Syria, you can do all of this, but you don't leave Iran alone because they can create too much chaos that you can't get out of. And we had a hard enough time getting out of Afghanistan. They didn't even hardly do anything. We don't need anything from Afghanistan. Took us 20 years to get out of there.
- [49:24]
Rich
Well, the thing is, like, that's part of why every day that this goes on more, I admire the JCPOA even more.
- [49:32]
Luke
Yeah.
- [49:32]
Rich
Because they said all of the conservatives, like he's giving them hell.
- [49:35]
Brian Tyler Cohen
It's a cash.
- [49:36]
Rich
And, and listen to this. Stay sponsored terrorism. We weren't in this. We weren't in this.
- [49:42]
Luke
The alternative.
- [49:43]
Rich
Look at the cost of, you know, a pallet of cash, which, by the way, we've given them more than that already.
- [49:48]
Luke
Yeah.
- [49:49]
Rich
We didn't get involved in this and they couldn't build a nuke. And now since Trump pulled us out of that and we have been consistently getting further and further into this, we're not getting away. We're never going to get away from this. We're in a fucking Chinese finger trap with ourselves.
- [50:07]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah, yeah.
- [50:07]
Rich
We're stuck.
- [50:08]
Luke
We should. I don't actually know the answer to this question. I wonder how much of that money that was released. I think a lot of it was released on day one, like when they announced the agreement. And now he's saying the agreement.
- [50:19]
Brian Tyler Cohen
That's what I'm saying.
- [50:19]
Luke
I think that is dead.
- [50:20]
Rich
That. I think the MOU was. The signing of the MOU, which they did, was contingent on $32 billion cash.
- [50:29]
Luke
Right, right, right. And then it was. It started.
- [50:31]
Rich
Of Iranian held assets.
- [50:33]
Luke
Right.
- [50:33]
Rich
And then there were 60 days with a 60 day, $50 billion reconstruction fund.
- [50:38]
Luke
And. And the 60 day timer was a pause on the tolls which then they could institute after the 60 days. So just thinking of like, how much have they already gained? Because Trump saying, well, the ceasefire is dead or the deal is dead. We'll see. I'm sure he'll say that the deal.
- [50:55]
Rich
I would be shocked if they have not already gotten more money than the entire jcpo. JCPO promised.
- [51:02]
Luke
We should look into that. Post that as a caption with this. What should we talk about that Tim wouldn't let us talk about when he was on. There's always something.
- [51:12]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Is he.
- [51:13]
Rich
I think Tim would get mad if I said that we should unplug Mitch McConnell, because that is my firm opinion.
- [51:18]
Luke
I mean that's.
- [51:19]
Rich
I'm tired of paying for his health insurance and health care, man. He consistently, he consistently voted against my right to health care. Why should he get taxpayer funded health care?
- [51:29]
Luke
When you said Mitch McConnell in your, in your video, I laughed like audibly laughed so hard at my phone.
- [51:36]
Rich
I, I hate that.
- [51:39]
Luke
Yeah. I mean after, after the whole Merrick Garland, like people forget like when our, when, when Ruth Bader Ginsburg died. I think there was a full year
- [51:49]
Rich
before he, he held up a year.
- [51:52]
Luke
Yes. We had an eight.
- [51:54]
Rich
And then that says nothing to do with the impeachment for Trump.
- [51:58]
Luke
Right.
- [51:58]
Rich
Or all of the. That he's co. Signed since then or.
- [52:02]
Luke
Yeah.
- [52:03]
Rich
Fucking guy has been instrumental in the acceleration of the American downfall.
- [52:10]
Luke
Yeah. Everything back to, I mean, I think as long as he's been in the Senate, but certainly as long as he was the every, every chance he's had as the Senate majority leader from the Tea Party movement and birtherism and the Affordable Care act and trying to repeal everything.
- [52:25]
Tim
Right.
- [52:25]
Luke
Like he has single handedly led the Senate charge against everything that could have been good in this country over the last 20 years.
- [52:34]
Rich
I will shed absolutely no fucking tears for him. When he, when they finally say, yeah,
- [52:39]
Luke
he's dead, you know who I'm going to shed tears for?
- [52:42]
Rich
Who's that?
- [52:43]
Luke
Lysandra. Oh, she won't, she, she won't have
- [52:47]
Rich
Mitch McConnell to dress up at. Well actually he could make appearances from beyond the grave.
- [52:51]
Luke
That's true.
- [52:52]
Rich
Like she could make it slightly more zombified every time he comes on screen to be great.
- [52:58]
Luke
See, we need to pitch these ideas to her because I mean Every, she's like J.D.
- [53:01]
Evan Osnos
vance.
- [53:02]
Luke
Like every time she does an impression of a character, then they find their way out of, out of public life. There's Caroline Levitt, Pam Bondi, Kristi Gnome.
- [53:11]
Rich
I don't know. She. Caroline Levitt came back around this week to talk about how Gen Z has a silver spoon in their mouth, which is an interesting word for, it's an interesting term for her. What is it, 67, 65 year old husband's ding dong.
- [53:27]
Luke
She just got done feeding her husband tapioca pudding with a silver spoon. So it was top of my mind.
- [53:33]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Like you gotta be pretty out of
- [53:35]
Rich
touch because what is she, 27? I think that's what she is. 27 or 29, one of the two. Either way, she looked a lot older than she is. She's not very far from Gen Z. She might be technically Gen Z.
- [53:47]
Luke
She probably. Yeah, she's well in.
- [53:51]
Rich
I'm gonna look up.
- [53:52]
Luke
Not to mention the like catastrophic incorrectness of that, of that phrase. Like everybody understands that millennials are maybe going to be better off than boomers, but like, are definitely not. Like boomers had it best and then everybody else has kind of gone, yes,
- [54:07]
Rich
she is Gen Z.
- [54:08]
Luke
She's Gen Z squarely Gen Z. I mean, she was just talking about herself. Yeah. So she clearly has a silver spoon. She's watching herself in the mirror. But millennials maybe are going to have it like on the whole, like wealth wise, maybe better off than boomers, but I, I still don't think so. The boomer experience as far as like home ownership and college graduation rates and affordability, I mean, it's by far the best. Millennials are significantly better off than Gen
- [54:35]
Rich
Z. Millennials just get, they got, they got about 20 years of it and then now they get, they're getting at
- [54:41]
Luke
the end, now we're getting all the rest of it. Yeah. Because really the millennial adult experience began with 9, 11. So it's been kind of for 26 years. But gen Z and Gen Alpha, like, what person can honestly say with a straight face that a $27 cheeseburger when you go into a restaurant is like, is good for 20 something year old kids or, or teenagers. Like the teen, the teen employment rates right now or unemployment rate right now for teenagers is as high as it's been like in decades. I need to look it up. But it's, it's not a good world.
- [55:17]
Rich
Yeah. You mean that not only are they not working, but they don't want to work because they're being paid 7, 25 an hour.
- [55:24]
Luke
You have to work four hours so that you can buy a cheeseburger at the restaurant that you work at, that you work at.
- [55:29]
Rich
And don't forget, since your president started a war with Iran, two hours of work is about as much pays for the gas you need to get to work. So by the time you buy your 10, your 12 pound of ground beef so you can make dinner at night and you pay for your gas to get to work, you're not making any fucking money.
- [55:46]
Luke
What you need to do is not get a vehicle and ride one of those electric scooters.
- [55:52]
Rich
Don't start, don't start me on that.
- [55:54]
Luke
One of those. Like you get a kid who's 13 with no helmet. I hate those 35 fucking miles an hour down the road with the burning
- [56:01]
Rich
passion of a thousand suns, they're eating
- [56:04]
Luke
a cheeseburger with one hand and just, you know, running over puppies and running into old people getting themselves killed.
- [56:11]
Pharmaceutical Ad Narrator
Yeah.
- [56:11]
Rich
And Gen Z, people named Luke getting smoked in the side of the body by some on a scooter that happened.
- [56:21]
Luke
Don't tell us about it.
- [56:22]
Rich
It's not fun. I have. Yeah, it's not fun.
- [56:25]
Luke
So you got smoked by somebody on an electric scooter?
- [56:28]
Rich
Yeah, on a walking path where it says explicitly do not, do not drive wheeled vehicles on this. And then he had the nerve to tell me that I was the asshole because he needs to slow down and not be on the the path that says, oh my God.
- [56:44]
Luke
See, maybe it's not bad that he was going to a seven dollar an hour job like that dude needs to be punished.
- [56:48]
Rich
Wish he hadn't been wearing a helmet.
- [56:51]
Luke
You wish he hadn't been wearing a helmet?
- [56:53]
Rich
Yeah, I wish he hadn't been wearing one.
- [56:54]
Luke
I'm gonna have to start wearing a helmet just to walk my dog down the street after this.
- [56:58]
Rich
Well, the thing is, not only are they not safe on walking paths, they're not safe anywhere because there's people. They'll go, oh, I'm on a sidewalk and now I'm in the road and now I'm on a sidewalk and then road. And they don't have license plates, they don't have lights on them normally. And people don't wear helmets when they're riding them either.
- [57:13]
Luke
Yeah, and you don't have to have a driver's license or.
- [57:15]
Rich
And you don't need a driver's license.
- [57:17]
Luke
But I think they say.
- [57:18]
Rich
But they go 35 or 40 miles an hour.
- [57:20]
Luke
Right? I think they say like some states have a limiter or like some states have passed laws saying they can't go more than like 22 miles an hour. Which show me any of these people who could sustain 22 miles an hour on a bike for more than about two minutes and then sure, I'll let you go that fast on an e bike or a scooter.
- [57:35]
Rich
But the scooters I hate even more than the bikes.
- [57:38]
Luke
Well, the bikes are like disabled. The, the governor. So you can go as fast as you want. It's not hard.
- [57:44]
Rich
Well, at least the bikes are bigger and a lot of the times they have at least some kind of a light on them. Those scooters, they'll do like say 40 miles an hour and it's just like, oh, there's a perfect. And it's like the, the outline of the person is just them standing and then suddenly they're in the road. Yeah, my entire neighborhood is fraught with these. That are like 13 year old kids riding these scooters that go 40 miles an hour and they don't look in the crosswalks. They zoom through without stopping. And it's like one of these times there's going to be somebody that gets killed.
- [58:16]
Luke
As a parent, my kids have never asked for, you know, my kids are what, 13 and 9 now. They've never asked for one of those. But. But I'm even, I'm even concerned when they just like go for a walk or ride their bikes to the park because now we're seeing like e bike and e scooter collisions with bikes and with pedestrians. It seems like every single day. Can't even send your kids out of the house anymore. Nope.
- [58:40]
Rich
Well, look at the president.
- [58:44]
Luke
We'll get to that. That'll be like our 762nd thing on the list after we solve, you know, climate change, e bike regulations.
- [58:54]
Rich
Actually, you know, if I had to put odds on it, I would say there's higher likelihood that e bikes get banned faster than. Than we fix, you know, climate change.
- [59:02]
Luke
We won't ban guns in schools before we ban e bikes in schools.
- [59:07]
Rich
Facts guaranteed. Guaranteed.
- [59:10]
Luke
One kid every year is killed. All right. Before we get gun control in schools. Without Tim on the call, he would kill us to.
- [59:18]
Brian Tyler Cohen
That's true.
- [59:18]
Rich
I think we've reached time.
- [59:20]
Luke
What do we tell people to do? Buy our go?
- [59:22]
Rich
No, we need to tell them to go buy Brian's book@briantylercohen.com book. We're going to put the link down below. Also, if you want to pick up a paid subscribe paid subscription to find out media, you can do that on YouTube, Patreon or Substack. We would really appreciate it. There's also merch on our website including a get shirt that goes to charity. And also if you want to subscribe to our YouTube and watch all of our other shows like this other show called Get Angry where I am the co star, it would be greatly appreciated.
- [59:53]
Luke
Damn, dude, that was clean.
- [59:55]
Rich
I got that down. I'm getting better as I've been hosting Get Angry so I'm getting better at it.
- [59:58]
Luke
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was like almost BTC level. Tim's gonna be.
- [60:01]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I'm not too salty about that.
- [60:03]
Luke
What are the listened this long.
- [60:06]
Rich
All right everybody have a great weekend. We'll see you next week.
- [60:10]
Luke
Bye, everybody.