Tim (4:35)

Well, I want to give, sorry, I just want to give a little context to how unique the, the, the successes that Dan has had. Maine now at this point has, I think, one of the highest per capita of breweries. There are a ton of them. And so in order to stand out, it's a really difficult thing. And I can even say in New York, where I go, sometimes I go to these, like, bougie, like beer stores and they all rave about Main Brewing companies. So it's, it's really amazing to have both a high quality product and also do right by your. By your workers, which is. Is a. Is a really important thing that most people don't do.

Dan Cleban (5:09)

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, the craft beer revolution, like, we got him at the leading edge of kind of the craft beer boom. And I think when we started, we were like the 18th brulee to ever start in Maine. So going back to like 84, when Geary's open to, you know, 2007, only under 20 breweries that ever opened up. And we've had over 200 breweries in the state of Maine. I think we're number two or three per capita in terms of number of breweries.

Tim (5:35)

Yeah, yeah. And I. And now I think you're what, in. In. In 30. 30 states or something like that?

Dan Cleban (5:40)

Which is really 35, 36 states in the districts. Yeah, it's been, you know, but it goes to show, Tim, I mean, look, if you, if you just lead with your values, you tell people kind of what you think, you give a. About your employees, you give a shit about your community and the environment. You know, I think. I think orthodox business school teachings would be like, hey, you have to pinch pennies, squeeze wages, externalize costs, you know, cut back on benefits. That's how you make a profit. That's just. My brother and I write that that's not sustainable. Maybe in the short term, you know, people can bank a lot of money and then they. They retire and die and don't give a shit about their kids or their grandkids. But that's. That's not the kind of world that I want to live in. It's not the kind of world I want to leave for my kids.

Tim (6:26)

Yeah. And. And then, you know, you have obviously had a very, very successful business. Why on earth would you want to put that to the side and go to the United States Senate?

Dan Cleban (6:39)

Yeah. My wife asked for Saint so.

Chris (6:45)

So after having to convince her that it was a good idea.

Luke (6:49)

Right.

Chris (6:50)

To start a brewery, now you're. You're leaving. That's crazy to me.

Luke (6:55)

From lawyer to. I don't understand beer maker to politics, that's like the backslide of the century. Right?

Dan Cleban (7:02)

I recommend it. Turning to a brewer now into politics. That the hochdor is kind of. Yeah, kind of. Kind of wild. But no, I mean, obviously my wife is. Is. Is a saint and is extremely patient with me and my crazy ideas. But in all seriousness, you know, just like 16 years ago when I looked around after the Great Recession hit and you know, government wasn't. Noah wasn't doing anything to make people's lives better. It was actually being pretty destructive and reckless and enabling a lot of reckless behavior. And I look down at DC now and, you know, government, it's. It's the same shit going on. And Susan Collins, I'm sorry, she's just. She's not. She's not doing anything to stand up for hard work. And Mainers up here, you know, it's. It's. I think if we had a little bit more of a, you know, our motto's do what's right. A little more of that do what's right mentality down in D.C. where, look, you know, representatives, you know, senators actually give a shit about their constituents and are focused on the issues that matter to them, which is want to float a home. They want to have access to quality health care. They want to be able to send their kids to school and not come out drowning in student loan debt. I mean, these are just like, I think common sense issues that government has lost, frankly, has just lost focus on. I think people are rightly pissed off. And, you know, and I think we just need more folks that haven't been, you know, Susan Collins has been there for almost 30 years, you guys. I mean, sure. You know that.

Tim (8:29)

Yeah.

Dan Cleban (8:30)

And. And, you know, I think people are just. They look around both parties and they're like, we just need change. Let's bring some voices in who, you know, have started a small business or. Yeah. Don't have a background in, you know, that They've been in D.C. for decades and kind of lost touch.

Luke (8:45)

But, Dan, I have a question for you. I'm not from Maine. Unlike, inexplicably, half the people on this call, I'm not from Maine. I don't know anything about Maine. And so from the outside, you know, Susan Collins, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, she's a beloved moderate. Tim, get yourself under control.

Tim (9:07)

I can't.

Luke (9:08)

Let me get through this bit. Tim, God damn it. She is a beloved independent, independent Republican who does not do Donald Trump's dirty work. She is not a lap dog for Mitch McConnell. She's like, why are you trying to come after this truly independent senator who is trying to do the best for everybody? Am I. Am I correct in my assessment? Because that's what the headlines tell me about Susan Collins.

Dan Cleban (9:37)

Yeah, you're straight out of her com shop, aren't you? I mean, look, I think people, People up here, I've been talking to them, you know, all across this State over the last several months, as I've been exploring this in. You know, look, I'll be honest. You know, a lot of folks here at one point or another in Susan Collins Almost 30 years have voted for her, but people, they're just sick and tired of her kind of performative politics of. I always like to say she's kind of always there when you don't need her. Yeah, she'll pass the vote when she knows she's safe. She'll take the bold stand when she knows that her caucus has the votes. I mean, look at the shitty fucking bill that they passed. That stripping Medicaid from Whitmanos up here, taking food off their tables is basically scrapping our transition to a clean energy economy and doubling down on the energy sources of the 19th and 20th century. Look, she voted to let that damn thing to the floor saying, oh, I'm deferential to my leader, Senator Thune. And then when shooting Murkowski was going to vote for the bill, she said, I'm out. I'm taking a stand. I mean, that's just. People see through that stuff in their.

Tim (10:49)

Rightfully pitched a stand that doesn't mean anything. You. Oh, my God, these guys are laughing because this is the. This is the stuff I say all the time that she is. I. I will say it. She's a fraud. She's not a moderate. The only times that she votes against the party is like you said, when Thune says that she can and she and Lisa Murkowski switch when they. Who gets to say yes and who gets to say no? And you are also correct that she voted to put this vote, this bill on the floor. Tell us a little bit, because we've had some other politicians from other states talk about the damage to their states. And what this is going to. Like, from your perspective, what. What is this big bill? How is this going to hurt Maine? Because from my perspective, it is going to be quite devastating for communities that actually need more help, not less.

Chris (11:36)

Could we zoom out? And not just Maine, how's it going to hurt beer? Because I think a lot of our audience cares.

Tim (11:42)

Everyone cares about beer.

Chris (11:44)

Like, how is the big beautiful bill gonna hurt beer?

Dan Cleban (11:47)

Yeah, I mean, yeah, this, this, this bill, I mean, it's just a raw kind of transfer of wealth from the people that need it the most, people that need help the most. To people that need help the least. I mean, period. And how do they fund tax cuts for billionaires? They take away health care and food from the most needy folks here in Maine and across the country. I talk to folks like, well, I don't need Medicaid or main care is what we call our state program up here. So what does that matter? Well, you should care because luckily we live in a country where we don't just leave people sick and dying on the streets. People will get health care. They're going to go to the emergency room, which is the most expensive and inefficient form of healthcare delivery. The hospital is going to pay for it. And if they can't collect money from the indigent patient, which they're not going to, they're going to pass it on. It's going to be higher health care costs for everybody else. I mean it's just economic. So it does, it impacts everybody up here. And in addition to that, if you like good beer, you better like, you better be fan of clean water and in sources of clean water. Like we're up here in Maine, we're lucky to have great water, which is why we make great beer up here in Maine. You better be a fan of stable climate conditions so barley growers and hop growers can make money growing those, those crops. And what this bill did was not only did completely scrap a transition to a clean energy economy, it's penalizing, it's penalizing folks who want to invest in solar farms, wind farms, battery farms and it's doubling down and incentivizing folks who want to extract oil and natural gas, the energy sources of the 19th and 20th century. I mean it's a completely cruel, callous and backward looking bill that Senator Collins again, when she had the moment to stand up and use her power, the all powerful approach, chair woman, she didn't, she only, she only stood up and grew a spine and we didn't meet her.

Tim (13:52)

I think the prop, the thing that really should concern Mainers, I think is energy costs related to this bill where they stripped out all of the, like you said, the wind and solar and battery projects. Maine in the winter. Shocker to everybody. It's, it's, it's cold. It's cold. Not as cold as it used to be.

Dan Cleban (14:11)

It's cold. It's really cold.

Tim (14:13)

It's really, really cold. I mean I tell, tell people all the time like we have people in Maine have starters where they like elect like a blood, like a, almost like a, for your like car garage, but it's for starting your car because it's so cold that you don't have to go outside. That's a thing in Maine. This bill is still on horse and Carriage up there. All right, Luke. All right.

Dan Cleban (14:32)

Yeah, yeah. But heaters on your diesel engine.

Tim (14:34)

Yeah, right. So, like. Yeah, it's. So like, we have basically removed all the incentives for all of the types of energy that are being built right now, which are wind and solar. And, you know, to me, I don't know, Dan, if you've seen it yet, but my understanding is that home heating costs are going to go. Go through the roof this winter, partially because there is just more demand than supply at this point.

Dan Cleban (14:56)

Yeah, I mean, it's in the papers here. It's in, you know, automobile press, Bangor Daily News, you see it every week. The cost of electricity is going to skyrocket. And again, instead of investing in sources of what will eventually be a much cheaper form of energy, we're disincentivizing that, penalizing that and doubling down on fossil fuels. And this might come as a shocker to folks, not to you, Tim. We don't have oil and natural gas up here. You know, we. We don't have an economy that's based on that. What we do, what the potential for jobs up here is, is building out massive solar farms, wind farms. Now, let me be careful here. I love fishermen. My brother loves a fishermen. He's fished for lobster, scallops, clams, urchin, everything. So don't get me wrong, I think wing is a little bit of a third rail up here because of our fishing community, but we can have both. We can develop offshore wind projects and make sure that they're not in fishing waters. I mean, I'll always have a fisherman's back, but we can do both. And I don't think we can let this, this kind of faux argument of, you know, we're going to put fishermen out of business, stop us from, you know, building out this infrastructure, creating great jobs.

Tim (16:11)

Yeah, no, I mean, I. I think that's exactly right. And, you know, Maine has a lot of. A lot of land, so there's a lot of places you can do solar and wind and things like that, as long as it's, you know, with the community involvement and things like that. So when you're talking to Mainers right now, what is. What are the biggest issues that they are. Are talking to you about? I. I'm assuming prices is probably biggest thing. But I'm just curious what, like, you're probably hearing some consistent themes when you're out talking to voters.

Dan Cleban (16:38)

Yeah, the cost of living is too damn high. You nailed it, Tim. I mean, that's issue one, two, and three. It's. It's not the social issues that I think dominate the social media landscape. It's really not even foreign policy issues. It's like people are, they're fucking struggling. You know, they're you. I talk to so many, you know, people that have played by the rules. Like they, they went through school, they kept their nose clean, they studied hard, they went to school. Whether that's a vocational school or, or a four year liberal arts college doesn't matter, you know, and they're like, I just want to be. I thought if I did all this, I could graduate, I could get a house, I could start a family. But people, it's just not people like, they're giving up. I mean, how do you even think about starting a family if you can't afford a home? I mean, it really has gotten to the point and we wonder why people have fallen into the hands of someone like Donald Trump. I mean, we as Democrats have lost focus of what really matters in people's lives. And it's pretty simple and straightforward. They want to know that if they make the promise of working hard and they had an idea or a talent, they want the government to reciprocate and be like, I got your damn back. That's the American dream. I'm one of the lucky ones. I've seen the American dream. I know it exists, but it's on life support and people just given up on it. And I think those Democrats have to retake that mantle because, you know, it sure as hell isn't going to be the Republican Party. It's not going to be Susan Collins. I mean, that party is authoritarian, destructive, divide, conquer, grift, shovel money out the back door to Donald Trump and his billionaire friends. It all under the guise of, you know, being the savior of the working class. It's all bullshit. But we've let them get away.

Tim (18:22)

They'll do it all.

Dan Cleban (18:23)

They'll do it all while they lie.

Tim (18:24)

To you and tell you about how.

Dan Cleban (18:25)

They'Re, you know, they got your back.

Tim (18:27)

And that they're, they're really looking out for the problems that you care about, but they're not.

Dan Cleban (18:30)

Yeah, yeah, it's all.

Tim (18:35)

100%. So, so what are, so what are some of the policies that you would be promoting? Obviously, probably a 180 from a lot of what this horrible Trump administration and what Susan Collins has been supporting. But like, what are some things that you, if you went to Congress and went to the Senate, what would you, what would you put forward first?

Dan Cleban (18:53)

Well, I mean, I think, Red. I mean, people have to understand that what this republic, the shin Republican budget bill has done has hamstrung government's ability to really address any of the pressing issues that we're talking about. Housing, education, healthcare. There's no money. I mean the debt is going to skyrocket by all reasonable projections. So I mean, I think we can't even start talking about like things that are gonna make people's lives better until we claw back some of that bill. I mean we need to claw some of that back. We need to take away those, some of those tax cuts for people that absolutely do not need them. We need to refund Medicaid and then we have to start talking about investing in. Because we show up the aca, I mean that's been decimated. I'm a fan of talking about a public option for the aca. You know, I'm for competition. If you want to have a government, you know, computer in the marketplace against private insurers, great. Talk about housing. You know, we should be investing in methods of construction of that are, you know, that exist. We should be doing like in 2025, like I built homes, I built breweries. We build shit today. Like it's 1925. You know, it's completely inefficient. And so government should be, you know, out there looking for innovative ways to build homes. And look, cutting red tape. And you can't get a clean energy project off the ground, an affordable housing project off the ground. I mean the backlog, I just talked to some, the other raid the backlog at hard to get an affordable housing project off the ground is ridiculous. We, as Democrats, we should be for cutting red tape so that these projects can get off the ground. We should be for expediting permitting processes and all this needs birthing stuff including good paying jobs for folks, you know. So I mean I think it's step one, like click. Let's get even ourselves out of the, out of the, out of the ditch in step two, then we can start to build.

Tim (20:48)

Yeah, I, I think that's exactly right. And the other thing that we wanted to talk about because this has been in the news, obviously we had a jobs report last, last week that was terrible at 22,000. And they actually.

Dan Cleban (20:59)

Numbers, Tim, fake numbers.

Tim (21:01)

Right, right, right. Well, but this, these ones came with the new, the new guy that runs BLS from the Heritage foundation. So I don't know what they're this time. And we also found out that they did the yearly revisions where they reduced the whole job count by a million job.

Dan Cleban (21:16)

We lost jobs in June.

Tim (21:18)

We lost jobs in June. It was the first time in four years that we had lost jobs since COVID since Donald Trump, the first time did that. And now. So everyone is talking about these tariffs. I would love to hear from you, like, how are these tariffs affecting name because I know when Trump did this in the first term, the, the Chinese tariffs he put on really affected the, the lobster industry in Maine. And I'm curious now this time, like, what, what are you seeing and what are you hearing from folks about these tariffs and how they're affecting small businesses in Maine?

Dan Cleban (21:49)

These tariffs are so stupid in, in reckless. I, I can't even, I can't even begin to describe how just nonsensical the application. We can have a side discussion about whether tariffs are appropriate in certain situations. And I would argue that they probably are. But the way that the Trump administration is applying them, almost like it's just a hammer to bend countries around the world over his knee, is it's injecting, I think at a very concrete level what it's doing to small businesses across this state. It's injecting a tremendous amount of uncertainty. How do you possibly think about expanding my brewery or another brewery if you don't narrow what the cost of those materials that are going to that expansion are going to be, how you have a certain amount of money so like you have to be able to pull out how big of a birthday you're going to have based on your budget. If you don't know what your, what the cost of construction is, you're not, you're just not going to do the project, which means small businesses aren't growing, they're not adding more jobs. You know, it's, I think that at the most fundamental level, I think that's the most destruction is doing right now. But we're also seeing it start to kind of, the price increases start to go through the pipeline. You know, people back in the spring were like, you know, Trump in Lutnick and whatever were like, oh, see, prices aren't going up, but they know they know better. Serious people know better. It takes a while for these price, for the prices to kind of catch up to the tariffs. You know, companies were stockpiling inventory. There's a whole bunch of things that were, people were able to do, were absorbing some of the tariffs to keep prices down. But now we're starting to see prices starting to go up and we're going to continue to see that, I think further exacerbating people's situation up here. They can't before it should as it is. And Trump's just making life worse. He promised to come into office basically on to lower prices. And what's Susan Collins doing? I haven't heard a peep out of her. I mean, she might say that she's concerned, but again, her theory.

Tim (23:49)

Deeply concerned, Dan. She's deeply concerned.

Dan Cleban (23:52)

Mostly of the case in 2020 was send me back to the Senate because I am going to be the chair of a probes and I'm in the bird hunting the bacon for Maine. I don't see any bacon.

Tim (24:02)

Where is it?

Dan Cleban (24:03)

I love bacon. I don't see any bacon. I see the cost of housing was doubled in the last decade. We've lost 12 birthing or, I'm sorry, 11 birthing centers here in the state of Maine in rural communities. My mother in law owned the nursing home in Lubeck and my brother in law was the administrator of it. That had to shut down 10 years ago because reimbursement rates were too low. Big deal. What is a big deal? If you're a resident, if you're an elderly person living there and you have to get shipped an hour or two away from your loved ones, that's horrible. What has Susan Collins done? Nothing. Concern. Express concern.

Luke (24:39)

I think people forget, I think in these Senate elections not to reduce your candidacy or the job you want to. Two words. But it really does come down to two words most of the time. And that's yay or nay. And a senator is a vote for or against whatever is in front of them. And there's so much noise, so much talk, so much swirl and chaos that comes from senators, they have very polished ways of saying nothing. And then the things that they do say that are fucking terrible, they have very polished ways of saying it so that it doesn't sound fucking terrible. But for the average person, you're voting for Susan Collins to go in and vote yay on 98% of Donald Trump's agenda. You're voting for Dan or for the Democrat running against Susan Collins to say nay to 98. 99. Probably 100% of Trump's agenda.

Dan Cleban (25:42)

I'm gonna say it's Man United 99999.

Luke (25:48)

Leaving the door open for if he decides to claw back some of those cuts to Medicaid on his own. Right?

Tim (25:54)

Yeah.

Dan Cleban (25:58)

No.

Luke (25:59)

So in that sense, how do you think of our ability to claw back some of the. I call it the big bloated abomination. But borrowing Elon Musk's tweet on that one about that because I know that they delayed the worst of the damage to take place after the midterms so that people wouldn't feel it. Does that also mean that if we win in the Senate in the midterms, which like we absolutely can, if we flip these critical seats, if we win the Senate back in the midterms, can we head off some of this damage with a new bill that we, I don't know either, either withhold funding for something else? Like we will have some leverage, right? We will be able to do anything good.

Dan Cleban (26:45)

Oh yeah, you were right. I mean, if, if I'm the U.S. if I'm in the U.S. senate, I, I am going to be a Buras roadblock in front of Donald Trump and his agenda and Susan Collins is, is a pebble at best. And yeah, I think every vote counts. But look, we have, we have, I mean we demo to say we Democrats, we'll have leverage now. We've got a spending bill coming up and God damn it, we better use our leverage. We better not roar over like we did last winter. We better fight, we better demand concessions. And I don't mean just concessions. We better have guarantees written in there in that law so that Trump can't just come and rescind all of the promises that we make with Republicans. So we have leverage now. We should use it. But yeah, if we have the majority, it's not just, it's not just the budget that we would have control over, at least leverage over judges nominees. I mean Susan Collins voted for RFK Jr. Quack scientists. It's not just the budget that's at stake. It's judges, it's nominees. It's the incompetent folks that are running these departments. I agree. It is a yay or nay at the end of the day and she's always a yay and I'll be a nay.

Tim (28:07)

Well, and I think the, the judges is a really important thing because this is another one where I think that Susan Collins pulls the wool over people's eyes. You know, she claims that she is a pro choice Republican and that is like the biggest crock of shit that I've ever heard. First of all, she voted to confirm Brett Kavanaugh and the. But the other thing that people don't realize is how often she votes for anti choice judges at the, at the federal level that are the judges we always talk about like the Senate confirming. But like if she, like she is a fake pro choice person because she has consistently over the years voted to push along all of these Trump judges. And I think in the RFK thing's a great example too. If you care about reproductive health or any sort of health, you would never vote for quite possibly one of the biggest morons in the entire United States. And I think actually probably is something wrong with him. If you look at those hearings last week, I didn't hear Susan Collins even doing her dad deeply concerned thing last week. Like, where was she talking about him? I mean, HHS has a huge role.

Luke (29:07)

She was probably trying to find a COVID vaccine with her Senate influence.

Tim (29:12)

Oh, yeah, that's real.

Dan Cleban (29:14)

I mean, my mother, my mother in law lives with us. And you know, she's, she's in her 80s and she really is concerned, can I get my COVID vaccine this year? That's, I mean, we're, we're joking. I want to take it, I'll take it as it comes. But like, this is. Her shenanigans have serious implications up here in Maine. And yeah, the judges, the Kavanaugh vote, I mean, don't even get me started. I mean, that was a turning point. I had many turning points in my relationship with Susan Collins. But I mean, that was certainly a nail in the coffin when she stood up in the well of the Senate with this, you know, she was Margaret Chase Smith and she was gonna backbone and she said, oh, I'm gonna vote in favor because he promised me that he respected the precedent. He was, he respected president, basically meaning he would not vote to overturn Roe versus Wade. Everybody knew, every, every century, everybody, everybody had a brain knew that he would. So she was one, she was lying, or two, she's incredibly naive and I don't know which one's worse, right?

Luke (30:20)

And, and that's the thing. You can, you can smell it from a mile away. You know that. They sat down in a room. We all know that this is what they do. They sat down in a private room somewhere and they said, say the exact words to me that I can then say, show that I asked the right questions. So, and then, and then here's what I will say, and these are the exact words that will free everybody from accountability. And then they come and they do it and they say it and they're just gaslighting us directly to our faces. They, oh, respect the precedent. The. Does that even mean I'm a recovery attorney?

Dan Cleban (30:56)

It's a, it's all really not. It's absolute.

Luke (31:03)

And then, and they do this to our faces and they just think like, oh, you guys are so fucking stupid. You're just gonna take it and Then we'll do whatever we want, like, you know we're gonna do.

Chris (31:11)

I, I, what I want to see Democrats talk about is accountability. That, that is like my big thing.

Dan Cleban (31:16)

Right.

Chris (31:17)

It's not just about being a roadblock. It's about holding people accountable and imposing costs. Now, you're not the House, you know, you're not looking to join the House so you can't begin in impeachment. But would you encourage your colleagues in the other chamber to impeach people like RFK or Brett Kavanaugh or any of the other people that Donald Trump has unfortunately, you know, put into our lives in ways that affect all of us? I just had a daughter less than four months old. She's going to be going to child care for the first time. And I'm worried about her ability to get vaccines or the ability of the community to get vaccines. And you know, there's measles, I'm in New York, there are measles outbreaks here.

Dan Cleban (31:59)

So fucking with, so ridiculous. Are you, why are we talking, Is.

Chris (32:04)

That going to be part of your, is that part of your candidacy to like to remove these people from office? Not just simply.

Dan Cleban (32:12)

I think he needs to go. I mean, he needs, he needs to go, he needs to go yesterday. I mean, I write some nurse, he's gotta go. He drives her up a wall. Like she's, I believe in science.

Tim (32:24)

Yeah.

Dan Cleban (32:25)

It drives me nuts. I devoted my life to healthcare. My mother, we're a nursing home. Like it's, it is so infuriating to watch him in his quack science. We've sit before the Senate in, in, I, I, I, I was kind of just dumbfounded. Listen to some of the shit that was coming out of his mouth. I mean, he needs to go. I mean 100%. I, I mean, you could go. And he happened to be the one that, that Susan Collins voted for. That's why I'm focusing on him. But I mean, there's a whole panoply. This is a, this is a clown car of a cabinet right here. And again, Susan, Susan Collins, while, you know, she, she stood up and voted against, you know, a couple people here and there, she basically gave a grew light to Trump and let him install all of these, these quacks. Wait, Dan, are you, it's hurting people.

Tim (33:11)

Are you suggesting that the weekend Fox and Friends host should not be the Secretary of Defense?

Dan Cleban (33:20)

Is that a rhetorical question?

Tim (33:22)

I was expecting a big laugh from everybody and I got absolutely nothing. I got silence. Average joke.

Dan Cleban (33:29)

If you, if you haven't if you haven't found it, Tim, I'm going to send it to you. I saw it on, I don't know, I saw one of the social medias the other day of him doing pull ups.

Tim (33:37)

Oh, I saw it.

Dan Cleban (33:38)

Oh my God.

Luke (33:39)

I mean, what was he doing?

Dan Cleban (33:40)

Don't call that a pull up seizure on the pull up bar.

Tim (33:44)

I thought he was gonna like basically like separate his lower body from his front the way he was like, I mean, I'm like, you're like really gonna get hurt there. Then he's got RFK next to him working out in jeans and whatever the hell that is.

Dan Cleban (33:56)

Like, I just do each poster child RFK jr.

Tim (34:00)

Right. But the point, like, we're joking about it, but the point is Susan Collins did nothing to stop any of this. And she, like, this is the thing that I don't think people understand. Being the chair of the Appropriations Committee in the Senate, it can be an incredibly powerful position. Like she could basically, if she wanted to, she could grind everything to a goddamn halt and say, I'm not putting any appropriate budgets, bills through until you do these things. And I think what the most infuriating thing for me, and I'm sure you will agree with me, is that I cannot remember one time in 30 years, one time where she was the deciding vote on anything. And like, how are you a moderate in a party and you never buck the party? It is a complete lie. It drives me crazy every time I hear it. I'm like spinning myself up even thinking about it now because it's just so absurd. But like, has she ever been the deciding vote on anything?

Dan Cleban (34:56)

And that's why people up here are sick and tired of it, because people are hurting. There's consequences to all of this. Like, this, this, you know, you know, each way, should I vote? Oh, you know, I don't want to upset anybody. I have to, you know, I have to bow to my leader in, bow to, you know, fear Trump. You know, like, it's like, are you kidding me? I mean, the people are hurting. I mean, Trump is trampling. He's sending, you know, vast agents into cities, in, you know, in the military, into our cities. She's, she's just, I think she's. That's what happens when you bend in D.C. for 20. Yeah. Is it? I mean, isn't that what happens?

Tim (35:33)

Yeah, I mean, I lived there for a while. I was in the Obama administration. And yeah, I mean, I think some of these people, you know, I think she actually spends more time in D.C. than she does in Maine and it shows. And you know, she, I mean, I think there was a big story about her receiving all this Wall street money the other day. Like, you know, she's going to find cash from like big donors and people who benefited from the BBB because they know that her being there is much more helpful than having you there. They don't want, you know, the Wall street guys don't want you there. Like, they want her. And I, I don't think that that is something that Mainers are particularly interested in. And I, you know, and I want to transition this to a little bit of a political question for you. So six years ago we thought we had Susan Collins cornered when we, you know, with our candidate, who was Sarah Gideon and obviously Biden was on the ballot and we lost big time. So what do you think is different this time and what will you do specifically that I think is different? I, I, I mean, I don't know Sarah, so I don't want to talk too badly. I don't think that campaign was particularly well run. But I'm curious, like, what can you take from that and do differently this time to ensure that we finally end the Susan Collins nightmare once and for all?

Dan Cleban (36:48)

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think first and foremost what's different between 2019 and 2020 in, in today is I, I think Susan Collins is different too. I mean, she has, yeah. You know, her politics may have been sufficient in, you know, George W. Bush or an Obama administration and maybe even in the first Trump administration. That's a stretch, but I'll give for the benefit of the doubt. But it's completely inappropriate and completely insufficient, I should say, in a second Trump administration. She's promised over and over that. But again, to your point, Tim, like the chair of Appropriate is a pretty damn powerful position. Is she promised if we put a summer back to Washington, she would use that position to help make people's lives better. We've gone over this before. That hasn't happened. And almost everybody up here would agree. And we're living in a second Trump administration this time, which is, I don't know about what you guys think. It's even worse than what I thought it was going to be. I'll be honest, I'll raise my hand. It's worse than what I thought it was going to be in. Her kind of performative politics is sitting on the fence and not standing up when it matters. It's not meeting the moment. To your point earlier, Tim, of has she ever taken a vote when it really mattered? I Think. No, but there are. We used to have readers, and I'll use, say, John McCain. John McCain and my politics are extremely different. But I remember he went onto the floor where they were trying to kill the ACA and gave the old thumbs down. Like, let's have that thumbs down. Susan Collins uses thumbs down moment. She's never had one of those.

Luke (38:22)

Well, and so I looked this up because I wanted to be fair, because we are a fair team of journalists.

Dan Cleban (38:28)

Fair enough. Fair and balanced.

Tim (38:29)

Is that your balance?

Luke (38:32)

Fair and heavily imbalanced. Susan Collins, in her defense, almost 10 years ago, was one of the three Republicans who voted against that. They called it the skinny repeal of Obamacare. That was the one example I found. So Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, and then John McCain voted to kill that repeal. And so I'll give her credit for that in 2017. But to your point, has she changed? She voted to advance Trump's budget bill before it actually went to the vote, which I think she then voted against. Right. As a, as a, as a performance. She voted for that. She voted for the, the Supreme Court justices who all repealed Roe v. Wade. So Susan Collins at her best, Seven, eight. Eight years ago. God, how has it been that long? Susan Collins at her best eight years ago was still not good enough, and now she's significantly worse.

Dan Cleban (39:27)

Yeah. Yeah.

Luke (39:29)

So that's the verdict.

Dan Cleban (39:30)

Yeah, that. That's. That's the verdict again. She's just, she's just been there too long. And the people up here are, I think, not just up here. I think there's a national appetite for change for folks, and especially within the Democratic Party, folks that just aren't career politicians, folks who are rooted in their communities, who. I, you know, I'm up in my office right now, and my tasting room's down below. I, you know, I often have to work. We'll go downstairs and just sit across the bar from folks who might be strangers, they might be friends of mine, and just shoot the shit. That's how you order. Like, what's on people's minds? What do they care about? What are they worried about? What keeps them up at night? What kind of ideas did I have to make Maine better? And you just don't. DCs, it's a bubble. And I get it. You're there for 28, you know, going on 30 years. You lose touches. She's clearly lost touch.

Chris (40:25)

So, Dan, is this a campaign promise that if you are elected, you will maintain your presence in the tasting room? Because I think that's something you get Excited about. I'm being serious.

Tim (40:37)

It's like I.

Chris (40:38)

That is, that is like one of the best lines I've heard from, from any candidate. Like you sitting down at a tasting room in your tasting room, talking to your neighbors. That is something that nobody in the Senate has any equivalent of. No one does anything.

Dan Cleban (40:52)

Like, no clue. Yeah. Oh, heck yeah. I mean, it's one of my favorite spots. I can't talk about how awesome it is, like to it. It's one of the most rewarding things about operating with this brewer is going in the nit and seeing people drinking something that you made or you inspired and having a good time sitting with their families, laughing, not talking about politics, just talking about their life or their. What they're going to do this weekend or talking about their kids Friday night football game. It's like, it gives me hope, you know, like there is hope. There's humanity here. But we just got to, we got to get rid of these, these, these D.C. folks that have just been there for two damn long.

Tim (41:36)

I'm glad we're talking about this because there is another statistic that I heard the other day and you can, you know, tell me if I'm right or not. My understanding is that Susan Collins has not had a town hall in 25 years. Is that correct?

Dan Cleban (41:49)

She has not had a town hall in over 20 years. Like we can safely say that. And the fact that there's no record of when her last town hall was tell you, tells you how long she's fucking been there, right? Do you know if there's smoke dollars that exist before the Internet, there would be a record of him. Her last town hall was. But I, I'll tell you, I'll tell you what, I will fight if she's having a hard time. Maybe she's having a hard time finding a place to hold it. I will find a place for her to hold it. I will host it for her. I know she's gonna get beat up and I'll buy her a beer afterwards. I'll make that. I'll make that. I love it right now. She wasn't talking.

Luke (42:24)

I think she livestreamed her last town hall on Friendster, if you guys remember.

Tim (42:31)

Well, literally before the iPhone was like, the iPhone did not exist. When she had her last town hall, it did not exist.

Dan Cleban (42:38)

Existed.

Tim (42:40)

Yeah, maybe not existed. Actually, Luke might, yeah.

Chris (42:45)

When people say things like 20, 20 years ago, I, I think like, you know, it doesn't really hit people. 20 years ago I was in Iraq. That was the beginning of the War. That was a long time ago. The world has changed so much since Susan Collins has talked to a regular person. That is crazy. That is insane.

Dan Cleban (43:08)

Yeah, it's. It bothered, I advise. Well, where I think about it, I'm like, why do you have this job? To me, like it's like me walking into the taste arena and seeing people enjoying my beer. That's the reward. Like that's for all the hard work, you know, that's one of the most rewarding things I would think for someone who goes in the public service and I do use this public service. It's not a job. It should be thought of as public service. Going to serve your state and your country. I think some of the reverting things would be very out and talking to your constituents and having some positive feedback. But I guess if you don't have much positive feedback, maybe that's why you don't have a town hall. So maybe that's the answer. I don't know exactly.

Luke (43:45)

Got a paycheck though, so.

Dan Cleban (43:48)

Yeah.

Tim (43:48)

Yeah, well, I got a couple paychecks.

Dan Cleban (43:49)

But she won't be in stock trading in Congress.

Tim (43:52)

Right. What is this?

Dan Cleban (43:53)

That's a layup.

Luke (43:55)

Right.

Dan Cleban (43:56)

What's the rationale full for, for voting to be on the other side of this issue? I mean whether you're playing, whether you actually believe anybody who's playing politics, like to me it's, it's a no brainer.

Tim (44:07)

Well, clearly they just haven't made enough money yet.

Dan Cleban (44:09)

You shouldn't be able to day trade if you're in the Senate or a representative. Put your stuff in a blind spot.

Tim (44:16)

Exactly. Yeah. It's, it's crazy to me. Well, I have, I have one more political question and I know Rich has got a, got a beer question or two and so obviously the race has a few candidates in it already. There is one other potential, I think significant entrant that could be coming who is Governor Janet Mills right now is weighing will her entrance sway you anyway or are you in it to win it? Or like. Yeah, yeah, I'd love, just love to.

Dan Cleban (44:46)

Hear we're in it to win it. You don't get into a place like this to, to preemptively like consider balling out like hell. Heck no. You. This, this is, this, this takes a ton of effort to get started. I go back to when I started Nay Beer company. Like if you believe in yourself, you can't go into starting a company thinking that you're going to fail. I don't want a U.S. senate race thinking I'm just going to bow out. I am a Mr. Winner. I think I'm the best candidate to be Susan Collins. No matter who gets in this race, I bring someone who's not a queer politician. Someone who started with small business, started it the right way by taking care of their employees in the environment, who's given back a ton to this state, who has created jobs across the state. Someone who's led by state and national trade organization. And I know what it's like unfortunately to kind of work inside Augusta and Washington D.C. to cut red tape and make lives, you know, make small businesses more successful. You know, I'm a dad. I'm a father. I have twin 14 year olds. I know the anxieties that parents. You know to your point Chris, like it's. You have your kids younger obviously, but we'll all have the same anxieties. At the end of the day you just want to. Want to know that the world that we're leading to them is better than the world that we live in. I don't feel that way right now. I don't know about any of you guys but. And that, that's a shame. We are, we are, we are mortgaging our kids future for just the wall like greed and grift. That's, that's. That to me is just, it's unacceptable.

Tim (46:14)

I completely agree. Well, I'm going to kick it to Rich because I think he has a very important question for you.

Luke (46:20)

That was the most brutal segue set up into a beer question ever. We're all hopeless. So let's drink. No. So the question is why is IPA the best type of beer and why is everybody who doesn't like IPA wrong?

Tim (46:38)

That would be me.

Dan Cleban (46:40)

Oh well you know I obviously I'm a, I'm a homer here and, and I think, I think Tim's had had our beer before. We're.

Tim (46:51)

Oh y.

Dan Cleban (46:52)

We're known with IPAs. You know lunch IPAS is, is our. Is our best seller. It's. It's the Cystaya beer that got me into home brewing then eventually obviously the styles of beer that main beer company focuses on. But yeah, I don't know why, but it is ipa. And then to a lesser extent pale ale has if you just look at the data has far outpaced in popularity any other style of beer and it's not even close. But I think the queer thing about like American style hoppy beers is it is really made us the US like craft beer industry. The run view of the world. It used to Be the other way around. Like we Americans used to, you know, be. We used to envy Germany or England, and us scrappy craft brewers, we kind of flipped it on its head because we showed that you can create different styles of beer, you can be experimental, you don't have to live inside a strict set of brewing rules. You can kind of let your freak flag fly and look over, like, 9,000 breweries in the country today. All over the country. You know, it's such an economic success story that, again, I mean, just having exposure to that and having that kind of experience and being able to take that to D.C. and know, like, what kind of these scrappy upstarts have done and what's possible, like, the potential of America, I think that's a. I think it's a pretty small, pretty strong perspective to have.

Chris (48:11)

So we've started experimenting with a new. A new segment called Hot Takes. Last time we talked about Taylor Swift and Luke and I got beat up. Up by everyone who listens.

Tim (48:20)

You could take this one, Chris.

Dan Cleban (48:21)

I got.

Chris (48:22)

So I'm just going to go and. And. And jump on this grenade and say that. No, I think that everyone is wrong about IPAs. And. And the only reason you like them is because you successfully hazed yourself into believing your taste buds.

Dan Cleban (48:37)

Nope.

Tim (48:37)

That is. That is. I've never met anyone.

Dan Cleban (48:39)

That's.

Tim (48:40)

I've never met someone.

Chris (48:42)

IPAs were invented for their antiseptic qualities, because they would. Because they would be made in Britain and they'd go all the way around Africa into India. They'd pass the equator twice.

Dan Cleban (48:53)

Yeah, you're factually correct. That's a true fact. True fact. However, we have completely modernized and revolutionized the IPAs of the 16th and 17th century that were shipped on to India. Completely different beer. And I think you're disputing fake news.

Tim (49:11)

So.

Luke (49:12)

So what I'm hearing is Dan saying correct. It is. It is pro American to like IPAs because they created an entire industry from scratch, which then you have to then understand that the opposite is also true. Anyone who doesn't like IPAs hates America and hates small business and hates growth.

Dan Cleban (49:31)

So you're anti American or anti business?

Tim (49:35)

Yep.

Dan Cleban (49:35)

Yeah.

Tim (49:36)

Yep.

Chris (49:36)

Luke is just gonna leave me hanging here.

Tim (49:42)

You talking about leaving your. I am so glad that we proved Luke and Chris wrong. And so we're going to pivot.

Dan Cleban (49:48)

I've got.

Tim (49:49)

I have a couple of main questions for you, Dan, that only a true Mainer would answer correctly. So I'm going to ask. Yeah, so we're going to. I'm Going to put you on the spot. And we're going to start. Number one, Is Moxy good or bad?

Dan Cleban (50:07)

I do not like Moxy. That may cost me some bullets.

Tim (50:10)

Oh, that's the wrong answer.

Luke (50:13)

What is Moxie? That's a dog's name. What is Moxie drink?

Tim (50:16)

Moxie is a Dr. Pepper. Ish, but more bitter soft drink that was made in Maine. Okay, well, you're all for one. We're gonna go to the next one.

Dan Cleban (50:27)

If I was a pandering politician, too, and I would have said I loved it, that would have been.

Tim (50:30)

You owned it. No, that's what I, I, that's the right answer. No, we. That is the right answer. That is the right answer. Okay, number two, Lobster roll with butter or mayonnaise?

Dan Cleban (50:40)

Butter.

Tim (50:42)

Oh, interesting. I like that. Okay, how many can you top slip then? Okay.

Dan Cleban (50:50)

Lobster. Done.

Tim (50:51)

Okay. Can you sing the sixteen Counties song?

Dan Cleban (50:55)

No, I can't, period.

Tim (50:59)

Well, I, I had to learn it in fourth grade, and I've completely lost it at this point. And now the fourth. The fourth and final question, and there is only one answer to this one. Where are the best shipbuilders in the world?

Dan Cleban (51:17)

Hands down.

Tim (51:17)

There we go. You got it right. That is correct. I think there's a sign that says, like, through these doors go the best shipbuilders in the world. It is absolutely the correct answer. And, Dan, last week, these guys were yelling at me about Maine, so I was, like, defending Bath, and Bath doesn't get a lot of. Doesn't get a lot of coverage on podcasts. So I had some friends that were very happy. So we got to bring it in twice.

Chris (51:40)

So can we, can we get one more? Dan, I. I want to know what your favorite brewery is outside of Maine.

Dan Cleban (51:48)

Favorite brew outside of Maine, Sierra Nevada.

Tim (51:53)

Good choice.

Dan Cleban (51:54)

Good choice.

Tim (51:55)

They do have some little.

Dan Cleban (51:56)

Little far off. I remember the. The first beer I rang, the first beer tasting, the first beer that wasn't just Luloly Bud Lighter, Milwaukee's Best, or Natty Light that I'm like, holy. Like, beer can be actually interesting and flavorful. It was a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, and into this day, it kind of.

Luke (52:14)

That's a great.

Dan Cleban (52:15)

It's kind of the inspiration for the kinds of beers that. That we make here at Maine Beer Company.

Tim (52:18)

So, yeah, I mean, I assume, like many Mainers, you might have tasted some of those macro brews, maybe in a field with a bonfire when the parents didn't know where you were. Maybe. But maybe you don't want to admit that. I'll admit that done that once or twice. Never, never, never. Right. Another good answer. And Dan, okay, so before we wrap up, where can people go to learn more about you?

Dan Cleban (52:41)

Danfamine.com is is the website. They can find out about the campaign. They can chip in, they can learn how to volunteer. But you know, I, I, I hope to follow I'd be able to head out and get a get out across the state and start listening to folks. I think politicians like to hear themselves talk too much. So I'm ready to start listening. But I'd love people supported this campaign. Danformain.com Great.

Tim (53:07)

Well Dan, thank you very much. We actually were planning to do 30 minutes but we just kept going and maybe because I just can't stop talking about Maine, we got some extra time. But Dan, thank you very much for joining us. I really appreciate it, everybody.

Dan Cleban (53:21)

Also, I'm going to say one thing, Tim. I know earlier on the show I refer to Donald Trump as is the furor and people are going to excruciate me on on social media. It was in jest but holy is he, is he, is he awful?

Tim (53:34)

Yeah, yeah. No. And I think people listening to this will definitely agree with you on that. So Dan, thank you very much. And then before we wrap, just everybody, as a reminder, we have our merchandise on our store where you can all make fun of my my face again if you want to own it. It's the most popular shirt we've got. You go to find out podcast.com and if you want to subscribe and support us that way you can go to find out out podcast substack.com Rich has also got one of our shirts on today. So like you got all kinds of options. They're union made in the USA and oh, what was that? Did you have a, was that a book that I saw too?

Luke (54:05)

What it's a American made. Have we not talked about the American made Union made.

Tim (54:09)

You could, you could use them to, to hit somebody. They're pretty sturdy.

Chris (54:12)

Perfectly sized for a can too.

Tim (54:14)

In case to do Tik Tok doesn't.

Chris (54:17)

Like to see the can itself so.

Tim (54:19)

That's right. That's true. So well anyways, thank you everybody. Thank you, Dan. Once again, everybody have a great weekend. Yeah, we had a great time with you and hopefully we'll have you back soon.

Dan Cleban (54:29)

Back sometime. Yeah, awesome.

Tim (54:31)

Will do. All right. Thanks dad. Thanks everyone for listening. We'll talk soon.