Can Democrats Unite To Beat Republicans in November?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Find Out Podcast

Episode: Can Democrats Unite To Beat Republicans in November?

Date: February 5, 2026
Host: Find Out Podcast Crew (Rich, Zach, Tim)
Guest: Nathan June (Political/Economic Analyst)

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Main Theme

This episode dives deeply—and irreverently—into the persistent divisions among Democrats and the challenges of building coalitions to beat Republicans in the 2026 midterms and the 2028 general. The hosts and their guest, Nathan June, a political and economic analyst, blend humor, real talk, and pointed critique in discussing infighting, purity politics, media narratives, and what it will take for the left to succeed against the resurgent right in Trump’s second term.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. “Journalist” vs. “Content Creator” (00:48–08:56)

• The crew jokes about what counts as journalism vs. being a commentator/influencer in today’s media.
• Nathan June stresses the importance of source citation and factual integrity, even without self-identifying as a journalist.

  “I think one of the reasons why I might be good at this is because I do actually have a journalistic background where I try to pursue facts.” (03:57 – Nathan June)

• Tim notes it’s more honest for creators to own their bias rather than pretend neutrality:

  “Pretending you don’t have a bias is more cruel to your reader than just owning your bias.” (07:04 – Tim)

2. Coalition Building vs. Purity Politics (09:08–16:51)

• Nathan details recent blowback for interviewing moderate Dems (like PA Gov. Shapiro) and his commitment to “building coalitions” rather than enforcing litmus tests:

  “If you think I’m going to turn down an opportunity to go interview somebody who is potentially a 2028 presidential candidate, then you’re going to be thoroughly disappointed… I do not believe in purity politics.” (10:13 – Nathan June)

• The hosts agree that moral empathy on the left leads to fragmentation, with progressives sometimes refusing to back alternatives for moral reasons—though most end up voting blue when it counts.
• Rich and Zach lament how outside influencers (sometimes possibly paid) exacerbate internal fights, especially in key Senate primaries like Texas.
• They highlight the destructive nature of left-on-left attacks:

  “All they’re doing is ripping each other up…in a race that is going to need every single Democrat plus indies and some Republicans to get over the finish line.” (13:28 – Rich)

3. Texas Primary (Talarico vs. Crockett) as a Microcosm (12:29–22:47)

• The panel explores differences in coalition strategy between Senate primary rivals James Talarico and Jasmine Crockett, noting both are strong progressive candidates but attract infighting.
• Debates over whether to excite disengaged nonvoters (Crockett) vs. build bridges with independents/moderate Republicans (Talarico).
• Zach predicts Talarico could be “the next Obama” if he wins in Texas:

  “He feels like a guy who could win the south, feels like a guy who could win swing states…communicates better than anybody.” (21:16 – Zach)

• Both sides respect each other, yet peripheral supporters remain combative—a clear example of the left’s circular firing squad.

4. Does Explaining or Displaying Strength Work Better? (23:06–27:43)

• Rich poses whether Democratic candidates need to be expert explainers (policy-focused) or project strength and confidence (as Trump does).
• Nathan June raises the uncomfortable question:

  “Should the Democratic Party pander to people who may not actually fundamentally understand how a bill gets passed?” (24:26 – Nathan June)

• Tim remarks that Obama blended both traits but the electorate now rewards bravado (action-hero style) over substance:

  “The ratio of how smart are you…versus just your bravado has gone…basically 99 to 1 now in favor of just those strong leadership traits…” (27:21 – Tim)

5. Media, Emotion, and Narrative (Mass Media’s Influence) (27:44–33:15)

• The hosts discuss the power of emotional, visual storytelling versus data and facts in persuading voters.
• Rich shares a story showing viral success comes from emotional content, not rational policy explanations.

6. Strength, Identity, and Women in Politics (30:05–32:53)

• Nathan June points to deep-rooted biases that make it harder for women to be seen as “strong” enough to be president.
• Shows how MAGA deploys gendered attacks to undermine women.

7. Authoritarian Appeal and Controlling the Narrative (32:53–42:30)

• Trump’s base loves top-down executive strength, even at the expense of constitutional checks.
• Strongman tactics, “owning the libs,” and spectacle become more important than policy details.
• Panel bemoans right-wing media and social networks feeding constant false narratives.
• Zach observes that MAGA voters now accept things they would have denounced as anti-constitutional just a decade ago.

8. GOP Strategy: False Narratives & Manufactured Outrage (44:31–49:45)

• Nathan June describes the process of manufacturing outrage (e.g., reviving old scandals to justify new crackdowns), weaponizing confirmation bias, and the ease with which false narratives spread among voters with low media literacy.

9. Economic Policy, Real-World Consequences, and Messaging (47:44–56:24)

• Nathan encourages critical reading of primary policy documents (“Mar-a-Lago Accords”) to understand the real GOP agenda:

  “The easiest solution to actually reducing our reliance on government subsidy programs is to actually reduce the number of Americans that we actually have to provide them to.” (38:55 – Nathan June)

• Discussion on affordable housing, trickle-down economics, health care, and gig economy stresses—pointing out that complexity makes truth less contagious than simple (but false) talking points.

10. Who’s the Real Power—Trump or 'The Hosts' Behind Him? (56:54–58:16)

• Tim asks if another “host” will arise after Trump. Nathan speculates that “heir apparents” like JD Vance or even Trump’s children (esp. Ivanka) could fill the void.
• Panel is both darkly amused and worried by the implications.

  “My nightmare scenario is actually that Ivanka Trump becomes our first woman president.” (58:59 – Nathan June)

11. Silver Linings: Republican Apathy & Dem Opportunity? (59:40–end)

• Optimism: Republicans are less enthusiastic than before—MAGA unity is fracturing, which could give Democrats an opening if they organize and turn out.

  “MAGA only wins when they all vote… There are enough fissures on the edges that they’re just not going to come out in the numbers they need to.” (63:10 – Rich)

• Examples like the Texas special election, where Democratic turnout and low Republican enthusiasm produced a huge swing, are highlighted as hopeful indicators.
• The hosts encourage continued organizing, not complacency.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On being honest about bias:

  “Pretending you don’t have a bias is more cruel to your reader than just owning your bias.” (07:04 – Tim)

• On leftist infighting:

  “All they’re doing is ripping each other up…in a race that is going to need every single Democrat plus indies and some Republicans to get over the finish line.” (13:28 – Rich)

• On purity politics:

  “I do not believe in purity politics at this stage of the game. I believe in building coalitions.” (10:13 – Nathan June)

• On strength vs. substance:

  “He couldn’t describe what the three branches of government do…but he stands up there and never flinches…Americans really like strength.” (23:25 – Rich)

• On political spectacle:

  “It’s not 3D chess…It’s a toddler with nuclear weapons.” (37:21 – Tim)

• On GOP strategic intentions:

  “Read [the Mar-a-Lago Accords]…the easiest solution to actually reducing our reliance on government subsidy programs is to actually reduce the number of Americans that we actually have to provide them to.” (38:55 – Nathan June)

• On MAGA’s future post-Trump:

  “My nightmare scenario is actually that Ivanka Trump becomes our first woman president…if that happens, we are moving to Canada.” (58:59 – Nathan June)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:48–08:56 — Modern journalism, content creation & owning your bias
• 09:08–16:51 — The problem with purity politics & left infighting
• 12:29–22:47 — Texas Senate primary: Talarico vs. Crockett & the coalition debate
• 23:06–27:43 — Explainers vs. strongmen: What style should Dems adopt?
• 27:44–33:15 — Media, emotion, & the impact of visual storytelling
• 32:53–42:30 — Authoritarian appeal & narrative control in the GOP
• 44:31–49:45 — How the right manufactures outrage & confirmation bias
• 47:44–56:24 — Policy substance, economic realities & messaging challenges
• 56:54–58:16 — Who comes after Trump for the GOP?
• 59:40–end — Glimmers of hope: Fracturing MAGA & Democratic opportunities

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Conclusion

The episode combines sharp humor and exasperation with frank talk and moments of optimism. While the left’s infighting and the right’s narrative machine present real obstacles, the panel sees signs that Democratic unity is achievable—and necessary. The challenge is to balance idealism with pragmatism, fact with compelling storytelling, and coalition-building with authenticity. As long as Democrats focus on turnout, message discipline, and avoiding rhetorical bloodletting, they have a fighting chance against a splintering, less-enthusiastic Republican base.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Tim]

Foreign.

[Rich]

Hey everybody, welcome back to the Find out podcast. Everyone's laughing because that people were making jokes right up until we hit record, but we figured. So first of all, thank you for all the comments on the video on the episode that we dropped on Tuesday with economic professor Justin Wolfers. Like, the, the responses were just amazing and incredible.

[Zach]

He was awesome.

[Rich]

Thank you. And he was, he is so. He was so good. And I've never seen an economist actually be able to laugh at a joke or make one of his own.

[Zach]

So it was ball sacks and stuff.

[Rich]

Yeah, he did do that and he laughed at my Dick Cheney transition joke, which I thought was pretty good. And. But anyways, we have someone equally as funny and equally as smart with us today. He's. If you're listening, he is scrunching his face, but he is. We have Nathan June with us today who is a. I, I don't even know how to describe. Well, how would you describe yourself? Content creator? Marketing expert? Like you know, tax the rich guy. Like, what's, how do you call, what.

[Nathan June]

Do you, how would I describe myself? You know, I would say political and economic analyst by profession. I'm a data analyst focused in consumer insights. I am not an economist, despite the fact that I have several economist friends who say that I could easily replace half of their staff. But I basically, I position myself as somebody who enjoys researching, enjoys looking into things with great detail, enjoys fact checking things and enjoys clarifying. I think clarifying because fundamentally I believe that a more educated voter is a better voter.

[Rich]

So you're trying to make everybody MAGA then, right?

[Nathan June]

I, I actually found, I did a poll, I actually sent out a poll a couple days ago where I asked what people's my followers, what their intended presidential candidate was if the primary was tomorrow on the, on the Democratic side. And it was interesting because I actually just for shits and giggles, funny.

[Rich]

Haha.

[Nathan June]

I included, I am a never Trumper conservative and I just included that as like one of the demographic builds. Yeah, I had like 48 people who selected that. And I was like, I have Republican followers.

[Tim]

Wow.

[Zach]

Was like, wow, that's cool.

[Tim]

Yeah, I mean I like, you know.

[Rich]

They like are an influencer.

[Nathan June]

I, it's the worst term will not ever identify as that.

[Tim]

Which is funny because if you're like, you go, you look at like TED Talks, you know, they are trying to influence you. I, I always joke that like you know, Walter Cronite and like Edward R. Murrow, you could have called them influencers. Just like we can all call ourselves journalists because like breaking news, there's no certification or like, you don't have to do anything to call yourself a journalist, as Barry Weiss has pointed out. So if we want to just call ourselves journalists, like, I, I used to think, you know, coming from journalism, I used to think that you, you know, you had to have a degree and you had to do hard news or have like 10 years of experience doing hard news where you're interviewing expert sources and, and you're publishing like you're, you're breaking net new stories to the world. And that was the only way to be a real journalist. And now I have like fully deconstructed my entire idea of what it is that we all do, maybe just because I don't want to feel like an imposter. But I think, you know what's interesting? And analysts, like, they've always been called journalists, so why aren't we?

[Nathan June]

Nobody has ever like, I've never been called out because I don't position myself as a journalist. The funniest thing though is that I wrote for, I actually was a senior staff writer for the Central Florida Future, which was a regional newspaper in East Orlando. I actually was part of the staff that won a college pacemaker award, which was like the college Pulitzers. So I always sit there and I'm like, I'm not a journalist, but I think out of a lot of creators, I actually do have a background in journalism where I was writing feature articles. Like, I literally wrote an article uncovering the fact that professors were angry at the University of Central Florida, which by the way, is the largest college or public college in the country at 68,000, I think, undergrads right now. Like, I wrote a story basically about how professors were upset about possibly moving to grading on a curve policies. And yeah, it's like, so, yeah, again, I don't self identify as a journalist, but I always sit there and I'm like, I think one of the reasons why I actually might be good at this is just because I do actually have a journalistic background where I try to pursue facts. And I always, if you notice in my videos, I always cite my sources where I include little pop ups that say, here's the headline, here's the chart here is this.

[Rich]

The sourcing is really important, right? Because there are some people out there that are, that are just, you know, regurgitating news without putting sources. And I'm not talking about anyone in particular. I think a lot of people do.

[Nathan June]

It, you know, which has its importance.

[Rich]

What's that?

[Nathan June]

Which has its place yeah, it does. In the media sphere.

[Tim]

Amplifying things that need to be known. Amplifying true information is a role in the journalism space. 100%. I mean they used to have the little wire. I mean that was the whole point of like Reuters and AP was. They were wire news services so that little towns could just get amplified. Shit that was created elsewhere. Like that was the whole fucking point. And then you know, they, they became much bigger than that. But 100%. But Tim, you were going to say something.

[Rich]

Oh, I, it's just an interesting. We weren't even planning on going down this road. But it's interesting because like for, from the find out media perspective, like I don't actually want people to think we're journalists because we have a very, you know, we are very partisan. At least I am. Like, part of the reason to do this is to bring people more to our side. By part of it's just by existing, right. Seeing that there are white, that there are guys that are doing this, this, the street white guys. There's a Asian guy on this one. Like, you know, we, we have all, you know.

[Tim]

Wait, you're Asian? Yeah, I didn't, I don't see race.

[Rich]

I don't know. You're going to do the Stephen Colbert. My point is like I, but my point is it's an interesting distinction because like I, I don't want to be held to the journalistic like standards of like multi source and like. But I also don't want to like say things that aren't true either. I just want to take that story and then give my perspective on it. Frankly, like, I'm also lazy. Shit. I don't want to do the work that a journal. Journalism is hard. If you do it right, you do it shitty. It's done.

[Tim]

And so that's the biggest difference with news journalists is they, you know, you're not supposed to editorialize. Even if you know something or if you really feel something based on, and it could be based on all of the facts and science. If it's not the thing that your source is saying in that story, then you don't say it. You are only report. Or if you do say something, you source it to that specific source or you pull in that data and that's what makes good investigative journalism. But I've always believed, and this was something that was even 20 years ago when I was in journalism school was kind of coming around was like pretending you don't have a bias is more cruel to your reader than just owning your bias. And just saying it. I've been a progressive my entire life. I've been an environmentalist my entire life. I love animals. I honestly like animals more than people most of the time. I like trees more than people most of the time. And so I think if people know that about me, then they also know how to read what I'm writing or consume what I'm putting out there. And they can choose if they want to read it or not. But if, but when they do, I find myself like reading through my comments and I have a real connection and I know we all do. Like we have a real connection with our, with the people in our comment sections because we're creating authentic content on behalf of ourselves. And then to the rest of it. Tim, like, being a journalist is really like the principles that you commit to. Are you trying to mislead people or are you trying to inform them? And if you're trying to inform them, you're fact checking yourself. You're not putting out shit that's like half true or that's, that's half of the story so that you can guide them in a direction that's maybe disingenuous. Like if you just commit to not doing those things. Frankly, I think all four of us should call ourselves journalists in some capacity. And every entertainer out there, Bill O'Reilly's out there and Sean Hannity call themselves journalists. We can absolutely call ourselves.

[Rich]

Actually they call themselves entertainers for legally.

[Tim]

Legally, because they, I mean, journalists very well for.

[Nathan June]

So, I mean, I know we have topics, Rich, but this is so timely for me just because I yesterday went through hell on earth to get to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. There was seven hours of train rides to go have an interview with Governor Shapiro and the, a lot of people when I posted basically just a selfie with government with Governor Shapiro, who by the way, has a 62% approval rating in a purple state that voted for Trump in 2024. He also is one of two governors that has a split legislative branch, which is phenomenal that he has a 62% approval rating just in that in itself, like Republicans actually like him there, there are MAGA voters in Pennsylvania that like Josh Shapiro, which I found to be a really fascinating conversation and especially because he's been getting a lot of slack right now about data centers, about the ICE detention center, blah, blah, blah. And I posted this thing and a lot of people were upset with me. It's, you know, just for various reasons, most of them uninformed. And, and, and it's so funny because, Rich, when you Said like, we have to constantly remind people. I had to post something where I had said a reminder. You know, even though I self identify as a democratic socialist, I am not a redline progressive. It's like, so if you believe in redline politics, you will be thoroughly disappointed in following me.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nathan June]

And it was like, and also a reminder. If you think I'm going to turn down an opportunity to go interview somebody who is potentially a 2028 presidential candidate, then you are going to be thoroughly disappointed in following me. And I have to constantly remind people like, I do not believe in purity politics at this stage of the game. I believe in building coalitions. I aggressively campaign for Zoran Mumdani in the most recent primary and in the general election. And yes, I might actually, if Gavin Newsom becomes the presidential nominee, aggressively campaign for him. And people might not like that. But at this point, you know, to me we don't have a choice. So I have to constantly remind people that I believe in building small coalitions. I believe in backing candidates in local elections who are very closely aligned with you. I believe in being able to back a handful of new progressives, you know, the New Democrats and getting as many of the AOCs and the Talibs and all of those people getting Cori Bush reelected back in Missouri. 1 like, all of those things I believe in, but like we have to stop screaming at each other.

[Zach]

That's the biggest weakness of the left is it comes from a strength. Like the strength is that we're moral and empathetic. Right? But when you have a group of moral, empathetic people, you also get a large fragment of them who go, I can't do certain things because of my morals and they just want that line they won't cross. And that's like the most difficult thing to emotionally get people to, to really understand. But I think the majority of them tend to, once the moment actually comes and it's like two days before you got a vote, they'll go and vote for news. They will, most of them.

[Nathan June]

But, but then, but then, but then they'll post afterwards how angry they were that they had to do.

[Zach]

Yes, yes, there's a lot of regret.

[Rich]

It's, it's so interesting and it, it scares me to be honest, that like, especially I think Threads is where a lot of this happens, is that everybody has like, or not everybody, but a lot of people are like picking their like, horse and like they want to tear down everybody else in order to keep that person up. I mean, we see it with newsom we see it with Shapiro.

[Zach]

We see it in Texas too. The primary.

[Nathan June]

Texas. Right now.

[Rich]

Texas. I mean, Texas is the worst actually.

[Nathan June]

The worst. Right?

[Zach]

It is, yeah.

[Tim]

So.

[Rich]

So for those who don't know there, there are, there are two very good candidates in the Texas primary. Democratic James Talarico, who is a state senator, and Jasmine Crockett, who is a member of Congress and has been five to four or five terms, something like that. And you know, it's mostly people outside of Texas, to be perfectly honest. Yeah, I will say. I, I can't say it definitively but like I think some of them are being paid to do this. I, I don't know. And, and this is a problem in the influencer slash creator space too about disclosures. But, but anyways, it's like all of these people who don't live in Texas screaming about Jasmine Crockett taking APAC money and then it's like, well, James Talarico has said positive things about Israel. Then it's like, no, you, you both. And then it's like they're tearing each other apart in a race that is going to need every single Democrat plus indies and some Republicans to get them over the finish line. And all they're doing is ripping each other up. Not the candidates themselves, but the camps are just killing each other.

[Nathan June]

And meanwhile the two of them went on a debate stage and had probably the most civil.

[Zach]

Yes. Right.

[Nathan June]

Debate in a primary that I have seen since like Obama, McCain, where people actually respected each other on a stage and we're even, We're. I know people who are not young enough to remember this. It's like we, we, we use people from different political spectrums, used to actually be respectful of each other, believe it or not. But like they go on stage and they're actually not even, they're not even just respectful, they're actually complementary of each other.

[Zach]

Yes.

[Nathan June]

And meanwhile their most rabid camps are like going to battle about it. All it does is create this narrative where if your person that you are battling for loses, you are less likely inclined to actually want to rally behind the candidate who actually wins.

[Zach]

Yes.

[Rich]

It's.

[Zach]

I mean it's. Yeah, it's really rough and you know, I don't know, I feel like there is a clear cut advantage for one of them in this. But I'll get eviscerated just for saying hello.

[Nathan June]

Like I think tell Zach, do not go there.

[Zach]

I really like, it's just, it's so hard for me.

[Tim]

I don't want these people in our comment section.

[Zach]

I know.

[Nathan June]

Both would be great. Whenever I'm ask and I'm sticking to it. I. I mean, it's Texas.

[Zach]

It's Texas. Like, we. We just a podcast producer here, and she's a black female, and she came to me and she's like, I don't know how anybody is behind Crockett in this. Like, it has to be Telerik. I'm like, thank you. Holy look.

[Rich]

But it's in. I. I don't necessarily disagree. I mean, I think, like, they both have. It's interesting because they both have different perspectives on how to build the biggest coalition. That's actually probably the biggest difference between the two of them, policy wise. I don't think there's a lot of difference.

[Zach]

There isn't any. Like, they're pretty overlapped.

[Rich]

But, like, I think Jasmine thinks that, you know, galvanizing voters who have. Or people who haven't voted for a very long time, doing the sort of the Bernie. It's sort of a bit like the Bernie approach. Right. Like, I'm going to excite a bunch of people that are tuned out of the process and that will be enough. Plus the Democratic coalition to move forward. Talarico's is probably more closely to, like, what Zach, you're saying is that we actually need independents and some Republicans in the coalition. Talk about the corruption. Talk about ICE invading our communities and murdering people. Conservatives don't like that. Or the fact that, like, Trump all of a sudden is like, you can't bring a gun to a protest.

[Zach]

Which.

[Rich]

I'm sorry, but in Texas, I mean, you can. Like, that's true. But in Texas, you can open carry and you can conceal carries. So like. So it's interesting. But then they're not art. But the. I think my problem with the camps, though, is that they're not arguing on that. They're like, Crockett's a shill of apac. And it's like, right, well, like.

[Tim]

And the comments from Tall.

[Rich]

Not really. And then tell Rico made some.

[Nathan June]

Rico thing about Colin Allred. I. I watched that and I basically said, there is no other end goal for this except to try to take Talarico down.

[Zach]

Yes. Yeah.

[Nathan June]

There is no like. And whenever I see those, I'm just sitting there and I'm like, I understand that you are aggressively wanting your chosen candidate to win, but we have to stop cannibalizing each other.

[Rich]

Yes.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Tim]

So my. I watched Donald Trump get millions of people I thought, like, didn't exist or they lived in basements and they would never come out from under the earth. I watched him rally those people and some of them are in my comments, trolling me, calling me a beta cuck, soy boy. And they voted for Trump for the first time in their lives and they're like 60. There's one guy kept trolling me on tick tock for like a full year. He was like 65 and he lives in Florida and he's super racist. He was like defending, defending Matt Gaetz. God, for a second I forgot Matt Gates.

[Nathan June]

I haven't heard that in a while.

[Tim]

I know, right? He, he was defending Matt Gaetz Because 16 and 17 year olds, if they're gonna dress like whores, then like, then they should be treated like it. So this guy had never voted in a. Because I was like, tell me more about yourself. So this guy, because I'm like, you exist. You're a thing.

[Nathan June]

He isn't it never so disappointing when you find out they're not bots. The worst part is when you look who comments and you're like, oh, you're a bot. And then you look at them and oh, fuck, you're real.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[Rich]

Motivating a 60 year old to vote for the first time.

[Tim]

Never voted in a presidential election before and he voted for the first time. So I watched Trump do this. And, and so when I, and then like Mamdani, like if people said Mamdani, you know, a democratic socialist, like a Muslim Democratic socialist is going to, is going to run for, you know, New York City mayor, I'd have been like, well, it's New York City, maybe. But against like a Cuomo, I would have been like, yeah, that sounds tough. Because in the old days, you come in with the big name and you're, and you're. And like, you get the votes and then the, the little, the, the passionate people, they maybe make a noise in the primary race and then they flame out. That has changed enough now where I'm kind of coming around to the idea of like, maybe we need to just say shit that we believe is true. Even if the strategists and the pollsters tell us, like, this doesn't play well in Pennsylvania. And. But you just fucking say it because you believe it has to be true. And you, it's what makes you want to fight instead of what makes you want to go and like win a debate. And Crockett has that. And so I'm not going to count that approach out because there are millions, there are millions and millions of Democrats in Texas and, and a lot of them don't vote more cities are in Texas than Republicans. It looks like a blue state. If you look at Houston, Dallas, Austin, like, there are huge, huge urban areas that are big enough that in any other state, I mean, Chicago carries all of Illinois. There are other states where when they have urban areas like that, they're just solidly blue forever. So is it like maybe, maybe Crockett is the fire that, that Texans need to come out and vote? Maybe we do the old fashioned approach of Talarico being like a white male Christian who can bring together a coalition and like, sort of like tamp down the temperature and all of that. I'm, I'm keeping a very open mind this time around and I don't live in Texas, so I don't have to, I don't have to choose, but I'm keeping a very open mind and I'm glad that Texans have a choice between two phenomenal candidates because they need to just go and, and pick it. So, so for me it is about, let's not tear them down. Let's not tear down one or the other. Did we not not learn anything about gatekeeping with Bernie versus Hillary and with genocide versus Kamala Harris, which was like this whole manufactured thing. And where's Jill sign, by the way? I'm still waiting for her to come back out.

[Rich]

Oh yeah, where is she? She in Moscow.

[Tim]

We killed ourselves with gatekeeping in the past, but tribalism is sort of like an innately human thing. And so, like, we're going to drift back in that direction if we don't say every day. No fucking purity testing, no gatekeeping. Like, everyone is welcome. Try to be better and just like be somewhere on the progressive spectrum and try to be better and, and like, you're welcome in my party.

[Zach]

I think that's fair. I mean, my reason for supporting telo is really weird. I've had. Nobody's had it before. And I think you'll probably all look at me like I'm a little crazy.

[Tim]

But to me he's got great hair.

[Zach]

He's. No, he's very much like the next Obama in my head where, like, he, the way he carries himself, the way he approaches regular people and explains things, the gravitas of how he approaches stuff. It feels very akin to Obama coming out of nowhere and coming out and just absolutely taking over the party. Like, I literally, if he wins this Senate seat, not just the primary, but actually wins in Texas, he to me, becomes a front runner for 28. Like, and, and I think he is potentially the best. I think that because Obama had A very similar ascension. He was, what, a senator for two years, I think, before he.

[Nathan June]

Because it is.

[Zach]

It's very. Yeah. In the same realm of, like, here's. Because right now, let's be honest, we look at the field of Democratic candidates. Not awesome. Like, so 28 looks like nobody really stands out as. Like, this could really galvanize everybody. He feels like a guy who could win the south, feels like a guy could win the swing states because he communicates better than anybody.

[Nathan June]

So to me, Rooting for the 28. Yeah. Can I. Can I say something that's a little depressing? Just as a gay man, Nathan Talarico is Pete Buttigieg. If Pete Buttigieg wasn't gay.

[Zach]

That's fair. That's a good comparison.

[Rich]

It's a good.

[Zach]

He's a little.

[Tim]

And I love Pete Buttigieg.

[Zach]

Like, I think Pete Buttigieg is a little drier. I think, like, they're both dry. But I think Talarico does an exceptional job at, like, connecting emotionally with people, whereas Buddha just does a very good job of, like, explaining his perspective. But I don't feel like he connects with the person in front of him as well as Talarico does, because he's like, that natural preacher.

[Nathan June]

Well, Talarico's best advantage is in the state of Texas is that if you watch him when he does town halls or when he speaks to constituents, he's able to quote the Bible like the back of his hand.

[Zach]

Of course, it's.

[Nathan June]

It's really, really hard to argue with somebody when they're basically using the foundational aspect of what you base your entire morality and politics on.

[Zach]

Right. No, it's very true. These are all assets that, like, I think the average liberal would be like, I don't love that this is what we're relying on. But at the same time, like, he does.

[Nathan June]

I love both of them.

[Zach]

Yeah, they're great.

[Rich]

They're both great. That's the thing.

[Nathan June]

That'd be a great ticket, actually.

[Zach]

Talariko Buttigieg. I'd be all about that. That'd be pretty cool. Even though it's flipped, it's Buttigieg and he's the vp. Like, I just think the two, like, they're so good at communicating and they're wear what's missing from our side. Like, there's so many people who are front runners who just aren't good at, like, connecting with people we haven't been able to connect to. And I think that they both are very capable.

[Rich]

Well, here's an interesting question. For the group is. Is the best way to success through explaining or is the best way through by displaying strength and confidence? Because what I would argue with a lot of the Donald Trump stuff, the words that are coming out of his mouth are nonsense.

[Zach]

Right?

[Rich]

Right. This guy, he couldn't describe what the three branches of government do. He couldn't tell you what's in the big bullshit bill, but he stands up there and he never flinches and he sells it to his base. Is there a model?

[Tim]

Because.

[Rich]

And that is where I would argue, like, Jasmine would be stronger.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Rich]

Is being. She'd basically be like, well, fuck you, this is the way we're going to do it. And essentially, like, I don't care what you think. We're doing it. And like, there is a thing, I think, where Americans really like strength. They like to be. They want to feel protected. Now, Trump's version of strength does not jive with my version of strength. But I do think people see him as the guy who says it like it is. And if he says he's going to do it, he's going to do it. So, like, is it the explainer which ton of gets to the Democrat, like, is almost like in Hillary world or, you know, somebody that connecting to people though she's like, right, but she was, but she was an explainer. Right. Like, she had like, her site had like a billion policy page papers and everything.

[Nathan June]

I think what's sad, Tim, is, is reading between the lines. It's not so much strength. It's pandering to the fact that a larger majority of Americans than otherwise lack basic civics knowledge. And so it should. Should the Democratic Party pander to people who may not actually fundamentally understand how a bill gets passed that don't know what a continuing resolution versus an appropriation bill is?

[Zach]

Right.

[Nathan June]

Should. Should we be pandering to that? I also think it's basically the question is, should we be lying? Should we actually just blatantly be lying?

[Zach]

That's like the maga. Like, I think that that's the message that works for like, MAGA folks and like Republicans in general.

[Tim]

I think, like, we're gonna do it.

[Zach]

That strongman shit works for them, but I don't think we need to focus on flipping them. It's the people in the middle who are sort of like, I just want. I just want to feel comfortable and I just want like to keep my fucking money. Like, that's the group where I think, like, there is the opportunity to explain shit to them and they'll go, oh, all Right, Sweet. Like, they're less influenced by the strongman bullshit.

[Tim]

Zach, to answer your question, you have to have the strong leadership traits. You can also have the explainer traits. Barack Obama was an explainer who also could get up there and say, you deserve health care and I'm going to make everything cheaper. And, like, you know, this is not good enough. And like, you knew what he was trying to do. He was a good leader in that sense. We. We haven't always had that. You can't just be the explainer. Or you get like, Dukakis, Mondale type elections where it's like, yeah, no, they're good leaders, but. Or they're like, they're. They're good policy writers or, you know, they know what needs to be done. But you have to be able to meet people where they're at, and if they're sort of detached from politics, that's when you just do the action movie thing and you say, you need. You deserve lower prices. You deserve a thriving family. We're going to deliver on that. Fuck everything else. And they're like, fuck, yeah. And they, you know, and then they, like, go to the bar or whatever. Like, they go do something else. For the explainers, the nerds, especially a lot of journalists, you know, who want that detail. And they're the ones that are like, well, how are you going to pay for it? You know, you need to have the place for that content, for that approach. But honestly, like Trump has proven, he's proven me way more wrong in that. I used to think that that was like, if you knew your shit inside and out and you knew what you wanted to do and you knew how you were going to do it, and you explained it to people, then they would rise to that occasion, they would understand it and they would vote for you because you were a careful, cautious, you know, pragmatic person. I think maybe that used to be true, but like JFK into Reagan, we sort of transitioned to charismatic visual leaders, action movie stars. And the ratio of like, how smart are you and how well can you do things? Has. Versus your just, like, bravado has gone like, it's basically 99 to 1 now in favor of just those strong leadership traits, like the visual leadership traits like we see in movies.

[Rich]

Well, it's actually pretty probably because of the invention of mass media, right? Because the first televised debate in. In US history was in 1960 between John F. Kennedy and Richard Dixon. And Richard Dixon was by far more experienced. He had a. I think probably he. I mean, he was garbage person. Don't get me wrong. But like, had a. I mean, he was vice president.

[Tim]

He wanted universal healthcare.

[Rich]

He wanted. Yeah, the EPA and everything.

[Nathan June]

But like.

[Rich]

But he partially lost the debate because he. He has a thick beard like some of us, and he had a five o' clock shadow and the way the lights were set, it made him look sort of nefarious. And they said that had a big impact. So we've had communicators since then. But when I go back to that strength thing, there was an interesting study that Cato Industry Institute put out yesterday about immigration, both legal and illegal. And they looked at it over 30 years and they saw that both legal and illegal immigration helps reduce the deficit. And they have these charts and they show how much the deficit was and how much immigration has helped to shrink it. So like, if they. What's that?

[Nathan June]

I just screamed in the background. They pay taxes, right?

[Rich]

They pay taxes and then they don't get the benefits. The most, most expensive services, Medicaid.

[Nathan June]

They get no Social Security. They don't get anything, but they pay taxes through ITINs.

[Rich]

But I, I did a video on this last night at 8:30, so it was the right time to do it. And it got like, nothing on either side. It just died. And then today, this morning, I did a video about the guy who went and attacked the girl at the high school who was protesting ice. And if you've seen this, this was in Texas as well. This MAGA guy comes out and literally starts attacking this girl and then all the kids jump on him and beat the shit out of him. That video is killing it.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[Rich]

And it's like, this is where I come. Like, this is such an emotional decision for so many people that I do work. Like if I'm like, oh, mega. Look at this, like, graph. They're gonna go off. Liar.

[Nathan June]

It's why I use visual aids, Tim, a lot, because it's why, like that video I made about the AI bubble bursting with all the cups of water, in case you didn't see it, if I just explain that without the water, nobody will pay attention to it.

[Tim]

Right?

[Nathan June]

Yeah, it's. We are in a visual media. It's like I have kind of, you know, I'm a big history YouTube nerd, where like I spend copious amounts of hours watching YouTube videos. Just about, you know, specifically when the, when the genocide was happening in the early stages, I was looking at the fall of the Ottoman Empire, like just for background and context. But like one of the big things that I, you know, have. Have studied about American history is that, like, based off of media and visual identity? Like, there's no way in hell that America elects FDR as president if they know that he's in a wheelchair.

[Zach]

Nope.

[Nathan June]

Yeah, it's like, it just doesn't happen in that time period because of this show of strength. There's, like, the reason why it's going to be so hard for a woman to be president, and I firmly believe it will happen one day for us, is because there is just this fundamental rooted belief that women are not strong enough to be president. It's why, you know, MAGA have constantly used stretching back to. And people don't remember this, but, like, Trump in this administration. And MAGA has very, very acutely been able to realize that they can suppress women in so many different ways, stretching all the way back to 2016, when he told Megyn Kelly, who I nobody likes, but, like, except for a certain number of people. But he told Megyn Kelly after she moderated the debate that she might have been on her period while she was giving it, which is why she was so angry. So you have basically even people who would normally be your allies. You have this overall suppression of woman. It's like, so that's why I think it will be so hard, you know, for us to be able to move past this. And that's why this show of strength mentality is really important. On this note, like, I don't necessarily love the Gavin Newsom memes all the time, because I don't know if it's showing strength, but I think it is an effective way right now to trying to fight fire with fire, I guess. Because if the President of the United States can go on truth social and post a, like, 1800 character, like, like, post on. Can somebody put limitations on truth Social? My God, I know. It's like, in all caps, like, crazy. And. And it's just full of, like. I think one of them I read last week, I sat there and I'm like, there are 18 lies in this that. That do not actually exist. I actually counted them out. It's like, so we're in this day and age where. Where you position yourself as a strong candidate who is, like, making authoritative decisions. And people love his strength because, like, case in point, yesterday he and Marco Rubio passed. They bypassed Congress, and they are sending another weapons package to Israel without congressional approval and without, you know, any sort of, like, we're going to go through the normal process of this. I'm not using that as, like, I'm using that as an isolated Example, but like, we can see all the executive orders he passes. So, like, they love this. He has managed to convince his base to be excited about the fact that we no longer actually have three branches of government that are actually trying to keep it together. And that is. How do you fight that? If you are a progressive candidate, how do you fight a scenario in this country where millions and millions of voters are excited about shitting on the Constitution every day?

[Zach]

It's crazy. I mean, you imagine going back 10 years and going, the Republicans are going to turn to the party that's actually anti Constitution when they were like all constitutionalists. It's crazy, but that's what they are now. I mean, like, I see these Jubilee debates and every single MAGA shield that goes up there, all they're doing Jubilee.

[Nathan June]

I cannot say Constitution sucks.

[Zach]

Jubilee's trash. But I get those clips all the time on my feed and they're all.

[Tim]

Just ripping Christian nationalism. It's a Christian xenophobia I love.

[Nathan June]

Yeah, I saw this Jubilee video where a guy was like, was like, he sits down, he's like, tell me what's wrong with believing that, that I as a white person am better than you? I'm sitting there and I'm like, I don't want to. Why? Why? It's like watching like a murder happen. Like, you're like, I can't look away.

[Zach]

Yes, it's true. I mean, it's. That's the thing I hate too. Like, that has become the standard of what we get on our fucking feet is just like a bunch of fringe people fight other. And like we forget that the overwhelming majority of people don't want this. They just don't want it.

[Nathan June]

And I feel like it's just the loudest people.

[Zach]

Yes. But like that's, that's what to me, like, that's where I get thrown off of this strong man is going to win argument to a certain degree because I think there's a lot of people in the middle desperate for something that is not happening right now. And I think if you can tap into that in some way, shape or form where it's like, hey, I'm just going to be like a civil person and understand where you're coming from. And here's some ideas, like, I think that actually has a lot more strength than people think. But they get blinded because they. All they see in media is just fury and people wanting to get that and you know, inflamed because that's what gets attention.

[Rich]

But here's the, here's the trick of that. Right. Because I think you are right about the moderates, but if you do that, then the left that is, like, out for blood is not going to be exciting.

[Zach]

Yeah. You got to balance it, and then.

[Rich]

You'Ve got to balance. So you've. It's a. It's a. We have a much harder job because we tell the truth.

[Zach]

Right.

[Rich]

And I think when Trump can go out and be like, gas is a dollar 99, and, you know, we had to grab the greatest economy ever, and the. The surplus or the.

[Tim]

The.

[Rich]

The tariffs are, like, reducing the deficit and, like, everything is awesome. And then we're like, well, actually. And then everybody goes, right. And it's hard. So that's why.

[Tim]

7% reduction.

[Nathan June]

Right.

[Rich]

Here's my chart, which is what I did in the video last night. Look at my chart. That shows I'm right.

[Nathan June]

I want to know who at the White House has to make those charts. Yeah, Like. Like, I really want to know, like, who. Like, when you sit there, are you. Are you actually asking in your head, this is so fun. I get to do an art project today where I just completely make shit up. The sheer purpose of trying to manipulate, like, 78 million Americans.

[Rich]

Well, there was one. I don't know if you saw this, and I'm gonna probably screw it up, but there was one that there's, like, a slight growth in something, but they. They stretched the X and Y axis. So, like, the numbers from, like, 80 to 81% was, like, 80.1, 80.2. So, like, it makes it look like there's this, like, huge increase, but it's nothing. Essentially, it's flat, but they've just stretched it. So, like, I want to hear that conversation. It's like, zoom in.

[Nathan June]

That's my favorite is. My favorite is when he holds up a chart during a White House press briefing, and you can't see it, right? But, like, all these are. Look at this. And he just holds it up, and then he puts it away really quickly. And you'll have reporters who are being like, what was that? And he'll just be like, you should smile more.

[Zach]

Right.

[Tim]

I can't. Even while talking about Epstein victims, a couple of. I don't know, it's like a month ago, I think it was, when the last jobs report came out, Trump went on, like, a posting binge, you know, 20 photos in a row or 20 images in a row. And I started looking at them, and they were from, like, the economic. Presidential. Economic Advisory Committee, some dumbass name, but it's a bunch of, like, Just White House employees who put together reports for Trump. These things weren't published anywhere. And so it was like I was. Because I was trying to find the images. And then I realized the images were kind of wobbly and I could tell that he was taking pictures of like a pull down projector screen from within the White House or like some. Within some room. And, and so then I realized, like, these weren't published. That same agency or that same group of economists, they were not publishing them on their own Twitter feed. These were slides created just to show Donald Trump how good he is. And he was watching them on a projector screen in some room in the White House and taking pictures of them with a phone or probably telling an assistant, take a picture of that screen and post it on my Truth Social, because this is fact. And everything was written. I looked at the language in these slides. Everything was written at like a sixth grade reading level. It was like very good and very bad and super strong. And it was like, oh my God. Like, this is, it's not 3D chess, you guys. Not for. It's a toddler with nuclear weapons.

[Nathan June]

I do want to say this though, just because, you know, for, for your listeners, because you guys have a great audience. If you. On the topic of the economy, on the topic of the economy, we love you all. It's like we do. A lot of people are, a lot of people, I think, who are maybe just below surface level. Like, like people who are really engaged in politics. Like, you're like one level down. If you want to go a little bit deeper on the economy, I encourage everybody to read the Mar? A Lago Accords by Stephen Moran, who is the head of Trump's Economic Advisory Board. It's very boring, but it actually details out a lot of things. It details out tariffs, it details out why they are intentionally crashing the US Dollar right now to be able to make our exports cheaper. It details out in, if you read between the lines, it details out that the easiest solution to actually reducing our reliance on government subsidy programs is to actually reduce the number of Americans that we actually have to provide them to. You can take that with, with whatever level of like, disparity that you want to, whether or not it's saying, let people die if we kick them off healthcare, or whether it is saying get rid of millions and millions of undocumented immigrants. Take it from there. But like, really, really read that thing just because it's all in there. Like, like everything that's happening, the tariff policy, like all of these things where you know, there is no intent for us to actually become a domestic manufacturing powerhouse again like we were in the, in the early 1900s. There is zero intent. The intent is to be able to compete directly with China, to be able to be a tech hub and invest heavily in AI and data centers.

[Zach]

Yep.

[Nathan June]

It's like so like really, really read it if you want to. You're never going to be able to have that conversation with somebody who is red pilled so far that they don't really understand that we pay for the tariffs. But like, you will actually walk away from like with your eyes a little bit more open and you will kind of stare at it and just say like, oh, shit. At least I understand why he's doing this and not him, why he's not doing it. Yeah, he's like, stupid. Like, we can go through all the corruption aspects of, of what my Trump derangement syndrome is. My Trump derangement syndrome is basically like, cool. So Kevin Warsh, who is the new like, you know, nominee for like, you know, chairman of the Federal Reserve, is married to the billionaire daughter of the heir to the Estee Lauder foundation, who happened to also be on, on take trips to Jeffrey Epstein's island. Like, that's just par for the course. Like, cool. What else is new? You know, I mean, it's the same thing where it's like, cool, like our ambassador to the uk, which is probably our most important relationship, you know, I mean, with, with the eu, is a billionaire donor who basically helped him build his ballroom. Like, normal. It's like, but like, remove. The reason I'm saying this is you have to remove yourself from the daily like, distraction of like horrible, awful stupidity and lunacy. And, and if you actually look and read between the lines, that is actually what almost sometimes does not make me be in a constant state of manic panic just because you sit there and you're like, I get what's happening. I understand what they're trying to do. I understand like, the intent. It's not good.

[Tim]

Right.

[Nathan June]

But at least there's something, it grounds you.

[Zach]

Yes. It's not like, oh my God, this is the most unhinged shit I've ever seen in my life. Why is this happening? It actually gives you a little bit of sense of like, all right, at least there's a plan. The plan is fudgeing terrible. And, but I mean, like, that's the thing. I think for a lot of us, like, we all know too, it's not Trump himself making the fucking. No, he's the idiots around him, like Stephen Miller and shit, you know, being the architects of this stuff. But like, that's the dangerous part is like the people that are actually building this are highly motivated to execute this plan. Like, Trump himself is sort of the interesting puppet. They dangle in front of everybody and make it. You get.

[Nathan June]

He's the host, right?

[Zach]

Exactly.

[Nathan June]

I call him basically. It's like, I don't call him the puppet. I call him. He is the host of the reality show.

[Zach]

Yes, you're right.

[Nathan June]

Like, because I think he fully. I think he actually does understand what his purpose is. He does. His purpose is to distract. It's like, and to do all these things that get all of us up in arms and then he'll just silently kill something. He'll just silently, like, close the Kennedy center. You know, I mean, he'll just silently, like, shudder the Department of Education underneath everybody's eyes. Like, there are massive things happening that don't make big news because it is not really, really fucked up things like American citizens executing their constitutional rights, getting shot in the streets. Right? But there are massive things happening behind the scenes.

[Tim]

And that's why he runs away from those things. Because, like, people were like, well, he's going to invoke the Insurrection act and cancel elections after Minneapolis. He doesn't want a headline grabbing visual bloodbath in the United States because that makes him look like a failed loser. It distracts like it sucks all of the oxygen out of the room. The second all that stuff was happening, he was like posting about Iran and Venezuela. He just, in posting about tariffs in the Supreme Court, like, pay no attention to the, to the really, truly motivating domestic trauma because that actually gets people to go and change their behavior. And so it was like, I don't, I don't know. I don't, I don't think. This is not the fight he actually wants. He wants to make people look bad. He wants to win versus Governor Walls.

[Nathan June]

It's, it's honestly why, Rich, like, on the topic of ice, it's why a lot of Republicans will say the reason why you don't see any of this uproar in Florida and Texas is because local municipalities are actually assisting ice. That's not why you can't have this happen in red states. Because if, if, if people are actually getting shot in red states, it will start to create community uproar. It's like, especially if they're executing their constitutional rights. So I am fully convinced at this point that ICE in blue states is given completely different instructions for how they are supposed to handle themselves rather than in red states. Because here's the deal. Like, again, Texas and Florida have the second and third highest number of undocumented immigrants registered in this country. Okay. And like, New York is number one. Actually, California is number one. I think one of the two of them is number one. Yeah. But like, there is a reason why ICE is not in New York City right now, which is where I live, in my opinion. And that's because you need people who physically look like Renee Goode and look like Alex Preddy and look like people who are your Republicans. Stereotypical viewpoint of what a liberal looks like. You don't need woman in polka dot dress leaving work, flipping off an ICE vehicle, like, getting blast around. Because the idea that New Yorkers dressed in business wear are like getting in fights with ICE and potentially getting shot. That is horrible. Reality show for Trump.

[Zach]

Yep.

[Tim]

That's a spectacle that he doesn't want.

[Nathan June]

I mean, it's a spectacle he does not want.

[Rich]

They went to Maine.

[Zach]

Yeah, Maine.

[Rich]

Where they all. Everyone knows that's where I'm from.

[Zach]

Yes.

[Rich]

And I could tell you Maine is the whitest state in the country. 5%. I think there were maybe four or five people of color in my entire senior class. I mean, Portland has changed a lot since I was there. There's a lot of people moving from New York and Boston for, you know, Portland's a great city, yada, yada, yada, but like, there are not that many undocumented people there. And mostly what I heard was that they were rounding up people who, like, at one point they rounded up 100 people. Six of them had a criminal record, right?

[Zach]

Six. Yeah.

[Rich]

And all the people in that areas, they're all going, what, what is happening here? Also, Maine is a state that is so old, there are not enough workers to do jobs. So, like, they're like. We talked to Dan Cleveland, who runs Maine Beer Company and was running for Senate before Janet Mills jumped in, and he was like, I'm having to tell some of my staff to stay home, which means I can't produce as much, which means I can't sell as much, which, you know, has the trickle down effect. Or people in Lewiston, where there is a Somali population very similar to Minneapolis, all of the Somali immigrants are staying at home instead of going to the markets, going to stores, going to work. It's killing the economy in Maine. But they're there because Janet Mills stood up to Donald Trump in the White House about the trans stuff. They went to court, she won. So he wants to, like, shit all over her. He wanted to go after Tim Walls because he was a vice presidential candidate running against him a year and a half ago. It's very obvious, right? Like we, you know, I mean, the.

[Nathan June]

Minnesota thing, like, again, everybody who's listening, I apologize for hijacking this conversation, but this is something I'm very passionate about.

[Tim]

This is what I'm saying.

[Rich]

From us, Enough.

[Nathan June]

The Minnesota thing, take a step back and look at the timeline of everything that's happened over the course of the past four months. Okay. The Somali daycare story was something that happened in 2021.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[Nathan June]

Okay. The person who was responsible for it was already prosecuted by the FBI and sentenced and charged. It is an old story. Okay. It was the pretext to be able to support what is happening in Minneapolis right now. Okay. And it is so disturbing that that is the rationality, which is fabricate something, make it a big deal. Get a base that has the media literacy of my left ass cheek. It's like, to try and like, process information because they won't Google shit like. Like you could literally Google Somalia daycare controversy. And it will tell you. The timeline will tell you. It's like that this is not something that is. That this is something that's like five years old. They won't care. It's like they will just still see now you have confirmation bias, which is people are stealing your tax dollars. That is the foundation you have. People are stealing your tax dollars. It's like that. Even though if you even did more further research, you receive that a majority of that was state funded. It's like, but they're stealing your tax dollars. So then you open yourself up to illegal immigrants are the reason why your life fucking sucks.

[Zach]

Yes.

[Nathan June]

And then you can just go on a barrage because they now believe that when they see U.S. citizens who are progressive, Democrat, liberals, whatever you want to call them, protesting what they believe is the reason why their life financially sucks.

[Zach]

Right.

[Nathan June]

That is how you actually build a strong base in a coalition.

[Zach]

Yes. You need the danger layer. That's what I usually call. Because it's got to be something where, like, you are in trouble if you don't listen to this point. And that's how they always get them in there. And the other element of it too, though, that I think people don't look at, and especially people in the left because they aren't exposed to the information very much from, you know, what do they get in their media diet. Like the border numbers was really the big justification for ICE in general. Not now, but when Trump was running, it was like, look at the border. It's a mess. If you look at the border numbers, I mean, Trump accomplished his goal. The number of crossings is dramatic. 95% lower than it's ever, you know, in a very long time. I forget the number, but I read it recently. I was like, jesus, in the end, that's how he keeps Republicans from giving the shit the way we do about what ICE is doing now. Because it goes, look, the ends justify the means. I did what I said I was going to do. Nobody's coming here because they're too afraid to. So, like, even in the end, it's not so much just about what's going on on the ground, it's about Trump being able to justify going, well, I got the result you voted for. And they go, yeah, I guess you did. And they look past it, but, but.

[Nathan June]

They don't ever ask the follow up question to that, which is, how did this help you?

[Zach]

Right. Well, that's, yeah, they're going to realize it didn't. That's the big thing.

[Rich]

But also, just so people are clear, the border crossing numbers at the end of Joe Biden's term were lower than they were at the end of Donald Trump's first term.

[Zach]

Yes.

[Rich]

So, like, there was already some of this happening.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Rich]

But like, you can't say that to them because they're just like, oh, that guy who, like, couldn't even, like, stay awake. And I'm like, wait, isn't your guy sleeping in cabinet meetings?

[Zach]

Yeah, they don't care about it. It's the same as the inflation argument. Well, it was 9%, so it's like, yeah, but, oh my God.

[Rich]

Right. But it was like double that in Europe. Right.

[Nathan June]

Like, we actually can't.

[Zach]

You just can't.

[Nathan June]

You could tell somebody like, Japan's inflation rate was like 16.5.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Nathan June]

It's like they don't care.

[Zach]

Yeah, they don't care.

[Nathan June]

It's like we, you could tell people we recovered faster than any other modern country in the world in terms of being able to like, rear in. It's like they won't care. It's like, apparently Joe Biden was responsible for a global pandemic.

[Zach]

Yes. They look at it like he cheated on them and then that's it forever. Like, anything he does, like, nope, you cheated, though. It's like, but he didn't even do it. It's just So I can't.

[Rich]

Speaker 1 well, also, the, the things that he did that did have some inflationary effect. We needed to do.

[Zach]

Yes.

[Rich]

Because people couldn't eat.

[Zach]

Yes.

[Rich]

They couldn't pay their rent. There was. What were we supposed to do? Nothing. Which is what the Republicans always do. And then, like, I mean, you go look at the Depression there. You could see, like, when Republicans were in charge and they wouldn't do things, it was bad. Democrats come in, push stuff in, and they're like, oh, let's back it off. Gets bad again. Like, it, it's. But like, you can't explain that to people.

[Nathan June]

One of the saddest parts about all of this is I have at least four friends who are in New York and LA who are part of the gig economy. And the narrative of what the government should and should not do is so insane. Where I. The. My four friends, they have basically just decided they cannot pay the premium spikes on their healthcare coverage. I have four friends who are in their mid to late 30s, who are currently walking around New York City and Los Angeles with no healthcare because it jumped from 600 to 1,200 to $1,500 a month for them.

[Tim]

Right.

[Nathan June]

And. And they have just accepted this. And I sit there and I. And. And I wonder about Republican voters who are in this, who are, who are like, like, you cannot, you cannot actually blame Obama for this. Like, you physically have to stop doing this. Because, like, like. And I think that is. If there is one thing that makes me want to run my face through a concrete wall on a weekly basis, it is simply this. And this is actually how I got my dad to finally leave maga. He's still a Republican, but I finally got him to leave maga because I basically said, how can you possibly support something as a fiscally conservative Republican where our government spending is out of control right now? How can you possibly support this? And we have removed certain aspects of the social protections that you actually benefit from. The minute that my dad found out that some of his medication was going to get more expensive, he lost his fucking mind. And that was my opening to go for, to explain to him exactly what was happening with the ACA subsidies, with the Medicaid subsidies, with the agreements where when he says that he reduced the price of medication by 90%, that was exclusively for Ozempic, right?

[Zach]

Yes, it's true. And that's the thing. It's like I've been saying that all along, is that nothing will change until the people who voted for him actually feel the detriment of voting for him. Like, that's just the. You can make any argument you want when people wake up and the day feels the same as it did before, it's not going to matter all that much. But when they wake up and go, holy shit, the budget of my house is not what I want it to be. And it's gotten worse. Then you got something or like the.

[Nathan June]

President saying last week on an interview that he want that like his goal is to increase the price of housing.

[Zach]

Yes. Holy shit.

[Nathan June]

How can you watch that and hear him say, I want housing. I want the, I want the value of your houses to go through the moon. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, does nobody hear this? And hear to themselves? He's, he wants it to be unaffordable, to be able to afford a home.

[Rich]

It's actually one of the dumbest things I've ever heard him say to. Kind of got swept under because there's just too much shit. But the other thing is happening and.

[Nathan June]

I'm sitting there, I'm like, hello. Well, it's like, like, like, like we're, and we're simultaneously trying to convince people to take a 50 year mortgage.

[Zach]

Oh my God, I can't even start with it.

[Rich]

Didn't he also say, like, I want you guys to be rich. Basically, homeowners should be rich, but we're also going to create affordable housing. And it's like, you fucking idiot. Like, how, How. Unless you're going to build them yourself.

[Nathan June]

And nobody, nobody talked about this because again, we can't keep up. He gave $20 billion to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Like, like, like his solution for housing was to give money to the loan sharks.

[Zach]

Yeah, that's the world.

[Tim]

It'll trickle down, right?

[Zach]

Yeah, exactly, It'll.

[Nathan June]

Where will it trickle?

[Zach]

Yeah, nowhere.

[Rich]

Well, I think we have, we talked to Justin Wolfers about this on, on Tuesday. I think we have. Finally, the myth of trickle down economics can be put in the grave. Like, we have tried it like five times since the 80s and it never works.

[Nathan June]

Well, here's the thing. Tim works if you're a moron, right? It's like almost, you guys, I have to, I have to be completely honest and I apologize if I upset voters. I have become so close to just retaking the R word because I am so fed up with people calling me it. I get called that every single day. It's like in social media. I am so fed up that I've almost reclaimed it. Okay, But I will use moron, okay? Like the moronic aspect of that entire narrative, okay, again, is I forgot what my trail of thought was because I almost used the R word, but were.

[Rich]

We talking about worked up about the housing stuff?

[Tim]

How does it trickle down economics politically?

[Nathan June]

The crazy thing about trickle economics is, is that like people are pointing to the, to, to like what was the 3.4 or the 5.7 GDP, okay. And they're like, look how amazing we are. God bless you, Donald Trump. 5.7 GDP growth best. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, did you read the rest of the fucking report? Because the fucking report says that this is driven by the amount of money we're spending on defense contracts. It's driven by increased health care costs and it's driven by rich people buying shit and going on international trips.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Nathan June]

That is literally what the last report said. Does nobody read past the headlines?

[Tim]

The answer is no, that's not you. Then you're not in this, in these numbers.

[Nathan June]

Yes.

[Rich]

They also have. Right. They have a vast right wing media ecosystem that is pumping them full of this bullshit 24 7. Whether it's Facebook, whether it's Ben Shapiro, whether it's, you know, any of these like, people and they're just like, that's great, that's great. And then the people are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great. That's right.

[Nathan June]

To do it.

[Rich]

Well, they're.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[Rich]

And some of them were paid by Russia.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Nathan June]

It's like, if anybody wants to pay me to fight, like, please pay me. Like, I'm not above it.

[Tim]

Absolutely not. I'll say anything.

[Zach]

Same.

[Rich]

Yeah, well, yeah, it's, it's, it's all frustrating. But we're almost at time, but we got to end on a positive note.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Rich]

I don't know what that is. As I'm saying it out loud, it's.

[Tim]

Like, where are you?

[Rich]

And I'm going to filibuster for a second.

[Tim]

I know.

[Rich]

For a second I give people something to think about.

[Tim]

I, I have a question for Nathan. I have a question for Nathan.

[Rich]

Okay.

[Tim]

Because he's our guest and I don't know what you're going to say here. We've had this conversation. I think we all have our own opinions on this. But once, you know, you painted a picture earlier of like, you know, you got the Stephen Millers and the Stephen Bannons and all the non Stephen Nazis all trying to create, you know, use Trump like he's the host. Is there another host once Trump is gone? Or do all of these people fall back into the swamp?

[Nathan June]

I'm gonna be. No, I, I think the scary thing is that the person who is probably positionally the most qualified to be able to fill that host seat. Got his neck shot out last year.

[Rich]

Yeah.

[Nathan June]

It's like. And I also, weirdly, my most unpopular opinion I think in this space is I think there's a tiny aspect of JD where he's not like a red pill MAGA person and he's just doing it for like his own monetary gain. Like, I actually, like, I read Hillbilly Elegy. It's like. And so that's why I sat there and I'm just like, I don't understand what happened. It's like, like, and I think it's just you want to become famous and you want to become known. It's like, you know, but there's also a chance he could be worse because.

[Rich]

There'S money and selling out happen.

[Nathan June]

Yeah. The worst thing then. And completely incoherent, like dementia, like induced is dying before our eyes. 80 something year old person is like a 43 year old who actually can speak in coherent sentences. So that could actually be worse. I don't know. I am kind of ready for MAGA to burn their hats and, and, you know, move on from this. I don't think they have an heir apparent. I actually know from my family members who are maga, they're not really, they're not really excited about JD Vance, to be completely honest with you.

[Zach]

Snake oil salesman. He's not. He's just not.

[Rich]

But so is.

[Zach]

Yeah, Trump's got a charm to him.

[Nathan June]

But it could easily be one of his kids. It really.

[Zach]

That's what I was going to say. Donald Trump Jr. Or Tucker Carlson. Those are the two where I'm like, I could see those.

[Nathan June]

I swear to God, you guys. I have told this to my husband because he is a dual citizen of Canada and the U.S. i basically said this is my nightmare scenario. My nightmare scenario is actually that Ivanka Trump becomes our first woman president. And I said if that happens, we are moving to Canada because I actually cannot deal with the stupidity in this country.

[Tim]

Country.

[Rich]

I mean, if that were to happen, I might have to pick up and leave.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[Rich]

As well.

[Zach]

I'm already ready to go.

[Rich]

This guys, this was not the happy ending that I was asking for.

[Nathan June]

Oh.

[Rich]

Happy at all.

[Tim]

I mean, I heard. No, there's no heir apparent.

[Rich]

No, you. You heard Ivanka Trump is going to be the next president.

[Tim]

He said that that is not good. He didn't say that it was gonna happen.

[Rich]

No. I. So what was the optimism or the good news in that?

[Nathan June]

I think, I think the Optimism is that right now MAGA is not excited about who their options are for 2020 there. I think that there is a lot of optimism in that.

[Rich]

I think that's right.

[Zach]

Nailed it.

[Rich]

And I don't think that they are. I don't think they're excited about voting in the midterms.

[Nathan June]

No, they can see that if. Look at that. Texas special election. Republicans are not enthusiastic about that 8%.

[Tim]

Turnout in that election. Right. I think like 8% of Republicans.

[Nathan June]

It was like 12 and a half.

[Rich]

But it was a 32 point swing.

[Zach]

Yeah, nuts.

[Rich]

Because Trump. But Trump did an ad. Trump did it.

[Nathan June]

Or he endorsed. He endorsed her several times. She had a weird.

[Tim]

Lambs.

[Nathan June]

Wham. Spams, Lamb.

[Rich]

No. Wobbs, Cam.

[Tim]

Not going to work.

[Rich]

It's like succession.

[Tim]

Right?

[Nathan June]

That's a good news. This is the good news. To leave with that special election in Texas, in my opinion, is actually way more indicative than any of the results in November. And that is because that is a heavy red district where people were not enthusiastic to vote because giving them no reason. One of the best chances that Democrats have in the midterms is the fact that, that Republicans who are not loud on social media are hypothetically looking at what's happening in this country and saying, well, I didn't vote for this, but I'm not ready to say that to my neighbors and my friends.

[Rich]

Right?

[Zach]

Yeah, no, it's.

[Rich]

Well, there was, there was the, I think it was last week, the, the SNL skit about this.

[Tim]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rich]

Where the mom, the MAGA mom is sitting with her very liberal kids. And it's this whole thing where she's like, you know, after all these, this 10 years, I, I think that, I think maybe Donald Trump doesn't tell the truth all the time. And then the kids go, what the fuck, Mom? And they're like losing. She's like, I'll go back. She's like, you yell at me, I'm going back. I'm going right back. And then she goes, I don't. It's possible that Donald Trump might not be the best businessman. And they're like, mom. Like, are you kidding? Bankruptcy. You know, it's this whole thing. It's sort of that.

[Nathan June]

Who is, who is. Who is that huge conservative, like bro creator last week, who said. Who didn't specify. Trump, but he said, he said it was all a lie. It's like he posted on Social.

[Rich]

Marjorie Taylor Green.

[Nathan June]

There was the guy, Ryan or Mark, but there was a guy who was heavy on the Trump train for eight years who came out and everybody knew what he was talking about. But he basically said he's like, it was all a lie. It's like. And I think that. And everybody knew what he was saying. And then he doubled down and basically explained. And his way of explaining it was all government fails us. It was all a lie. Yeah, it's like, so, like people like you, you know, Joe Rogan's changed his tune. You know, I mean, changes to Sean.

[Rich]

What's his face too, right?

[Nathan June]

Yeah, you have.

[Rich]

Oh, was he the one that said it was a lie? Sean.

[Zach]

Sean.

[Tim]

Ryan.

[Rich]

Ryan.

[Nathan June]

That is the positive right now. Is that the worst fucking people in this country imaginable? Which is what I. And I apologize to the three of you because I'm about to say this, but if you saw this in my video, I said the, the worst pandemic in this country is straight white men with a microphone in front of their face. But that was not directed towards you. It was directed towards the conservative owned media landscape, which is a bunch of dudes with microphones.

[Zach]

Right.

[Nathan June]

It's like. And they are all changing their tune, of course.

[Tim]

Okay, so it's Sean Ryan, former Navy Seal, Sean Ryan, show vocal critic of the. I'm using the AI summary on Google, but yeah. So calling out the official narrative around the Epstein files. He's got a feud with Dan Crenshaw. Oh, damn.

[Rich]

Well, but here's the. I think.

[Nathan June]

Oh, damn.

[Rich]

Piggyback on, on Nathan's comment though. Like, MAGA only wins when they're all. They all vote. Right? Like, and that happens. That happened in 16. It didn't happen in 2020 because there was so much chaos and there was also a surge of people who didn't vote. And then in 2024, all of MAGA voted and then in 2025, most of MAGA didn't and we swept all of those races and he's not going to be on ballot again. And there's, and I think there are enough fissures on the edges that like, they just, they're not going to come out in the numbers that they need to. But that doesn't mean Democrats don't need to do the work, because.

[Nathan June]

No, they do.

[Zach]

They do. They need to do the work. But I mean, I have, like, I have multiple friends of mine who are, you know, multiple time Trump voters. And they all are like, this is bad. Like, he's doing a bad job. I'm not happy with him at all. And they're not like maga, they're just like regular Republicans. Those regular Republicans Hate what he's doing. Yeah.

[Tim]

And they have permission to just not do that. Yeah, they can just. If they want to. I. I want everyone to vote for Democrats, but if they choose to not vote for his agenda, especially in the midterms when it's like, okay, we have.

[Nathan June]

A lot of those. So, like, if they can just Republicans.

[Rich]

Can they get some of that purity going? No, I think it's true, though. I think. I think. I think they're. I think they're in trouble.

[Nathan June]

So.

[Rich]

So that's the good news. All right. We're going to end it on that.

[Tim]

We found June.

[Rich]

Thank you very much. We've all been friends for a while now and I'm glad we could finally do this.

[Nathan June]

Yeah.

[Rich]

Where. I mean, I'm sure everybody listening follows.

[Nathan June]

You know where you find me.

[Rich]

Yeah. You guys, sometimes he's on.

[Nathan June]

I am the lone gay Asian political commentator. It's like in this space, it is not hard to find me.

[Rich]

I've seen you on Ms. Now and CNN too.

[Nathan June]

No, I am not on cnn, but I was on Ms. Now. It's like. And which was. I had an out of body experience.

[Zach]

Yeah, I could imagine.

[Rich]

I. Yeah.

[Nathan June]

But I didn't sound stupid, which is all I cared about.

[Rich]

I didn't see the whole thing. When I saw the screenshots, you looked very composed and very smart and you were very confident. So I'm sure you did a good job. So, everybody, you already follow him. So I don't. You don't need to go. But anyways, with that. Thank you. I'm just going to do my real fast. Buy our merch. It's great. It's American made. I'm just, just doing it at the end and go get a subscription on subs. You know, maybe if I do it faster, we'll get more. I don't know. We'll see. Anyways, thank you, everybody. Have a great weekend and we will be back on.