The Find Out Podcast — Episode Summary
Episode: "Did Pete Hegseth Commit a War Crime?"
Date: December 2, 2025
Host(s): Tim, Chris, Rich, Zach
Guest: Dr. Nola Hayes (Adjunct Professor, Georgetown University, Foreign Policy Expert)
1. Episode Overview
The Find Out Podcast tackles the incendiary revelations that Pete Hegseth, Trump’s Secretary of Defense, allegedly ordered the killing of survivors of a U.S. Navy SEAL attack on a Venezuelan vessel in the Caribbean. Amid bipartisan outrage and calls of “war crime” from media, the hosts and their expert guest, Dr. Nola Hayes, dissect the legal, ethical, and political questions. The conversation navigates U.S. foreign policy under Trump’s second term, the blurred line between war and extrajudicial killing, and what this incident signals for America’s standing in the world.
2. Key Discussion Points and Insights
A. What happened with Pete Hegseth and the Navy Strike?
[02:00–04:41]
- News broke that Secretary Pete Hegseth ordered an additional strike on a Caribbean boat, a supposed drug runner, after two survivors were seen clinging to wreckage.
- Hegseth reportedly said, “Kill them all,” setting off accusations of a war crime and extrajudicial killings.
- Dr. Nola clarifies: “If my students were to answer ... and say war crime, I would dock them points. ... No one has declared war, not even Venezuela.... So to call this a war crime is ... incorrect.” (Dr. Nola, 03:39)
Key Insight:
The terminology matters: Not a war crime (as war hasn’t been declared), but rather “extrajudicial killing.”
B. Legal and Ethical Ramifications
[04:41–09:00]
- Legally declared war allows for the targeting of enemy combatants. Here, the lack of declaration means “it pretty much just becomes murder ... or, in another way ... extrajudicial killing.” (Dr. Nola, 05:56)
- U.S. claims of big-time narcos being targeted are unsubstantiated. Investigative reporting suggests, “If they were dealing drugs, you’re talking about petty, petty, petty ... way down on the drug totem pole.” (Dr. Nola, 07:45)
- The administration is accused of using the “drug runner” narrative to distract from the illegality.
C. The Absurdity of the Official Narrative
[09:00–12:00]
- Hosts highlight the Trump administration’s tendency to conflate drug trafficking threats, saying every boat hit is “saving 27,000 American lives,” which is “absurd.” (Chris, 09:19)
- Dr. Nola: The boats in question are simple fishing vessels, not capable of reaching the U.S. These are “not boats that were coming to the United States ... Exactly. What are we doing? ... We're making a mineral resource grab.” (Dr. Nola, 11:34)
- Diversions to unrelated interventions (e.g., Nicki Minaj at the UN, Nigeria) are used to “change the narrative as they are telling the narrative.” (Dr. Nola, 12:17)
D. Foreign Policy Motives Behind the Incident
[13:17–15:57]
- U.S. actions seen as resource grabs and regional bullying, not rooted in legitimate security concerns:
- “It’s this kind of really bullying, bullish foreign policy where the United States knows it's bigger and stronger, and so you're going to try and bully Venezuela, you're going to bully Nigeria.” (Dr. Nola, 15:40)
- The administration’s so-called “no new wars” pledge is derided as a sham: “He said no new wars, though we're lighting up fishermen left and right ... and, but it's not war, so we're totally great.” (Rich, 16:06–16:18)
E. Alt-right & Meme Warfare
[16:43–19:27]
- Pete Hegseth posts a children’s-book-style meme (Franklin the Turtle as a commando) as a taunt, further stoking outrage and trivializing the killings.
- “They use absurdities in their memes so that we spend our time debating what does this mean ... distracting us from ... how Pete Hegseth is going to jail.” (Chris, 17:57)
- Hegseth tagged “Southcom” (Southern Command), which oversees U.S. military operations in the region, in the meme—a move Dr. Nola calls “disgusting.” (18:37)
F. Unusual Bipartisan Outrage & Potential Consequences
[19:27–23:32]
- Both parties’ House Armed Services Committee leaders issued a joint condemnation—a rare bipartisan move.
- Rich distinguishes the unprecedented nature of this incident: “Those two people that were clinging to wreckage ... that's what makes this markedly different ... should you double down and murder them out of the water ... that's the particularly brutal component here.” (Rich, 21:14–21:32)
- Dr. Nola: “The whole damn world is gonna check you on this one.” (Dr. Nola, 23:32)
- Past strikes had survivors who vanished without answers—a point of future whistleblower focus.
G. Erosion of Military & National Security Morale
[25:52–27:18]
- Dr. Nola remarks on plummeting morale in the national security community: “We are having a situation where morale is low. People are not understanding what the mission is, and that's dangerous.” (Dr. Nola, 27:18)
H. Where Do We Go From Here?
[27:18–29:54]
- The future is “messy and chaotic,” dependent on political and legal consequences.
- Dr. Nola: “Congress is the only body that can declare war. There's no declaration of war. So what are we doing? Do you want to back murder? That literally is your legacy.” (Dr. Nola, 28:40)
- Hints at possible cabinet shakeups, potential impeachment, and long-term reputational harm regardless of Trump’s personal fate.
3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “If my students...said war crime, I would dock them points.” (Dr. Nola Hayes, 03:39)
- “...when you're just out there killing people without any sort of legal authority...that pretty much just becomes murder or ... extrajudicial killing.” (Dr. Nola Hayes, 05:56)
- “These aren't boats that were coming to the United States...We're making a mineral resource grab.” (Dr. Nola Hayes, 11:34)
- “We've been trained by action movies ... but the critical difference here is those two people clinging to wreckage ... that's what makes this a markedly different conversation.” (Rich, 20:04–21:32)
- “The whole damn world is gonna check you on this one.” (Dr. Nola Hayes, 23:32)
- “Morale is low. People are not understanding what the mission is, and that's dangerous.” (Dr. Nola Hayes, 27:18)
- “Congress is the only body that can declare war...Do you want to back murder? That literally is your legacy.” (Dr. Nola Hayes, 28:40)
- “He wants to rename the Republican Party. ...the Trumplicans.” (Chris, 45:02) [Comic relief]
4. Important Segment Timestamps
- [02:00] — Introduction and summary of the Hegseth-directed strike
- [03:39] — War crime vs. extrajudicial killing definition
- [07:26] — Journalism reveals the extent of “petty” drug involvement
- [09:19] — Administration’s inflated rhetoric around drug boat strikes
- [11:34] — Real motives: Resource grabs, not drug interdiction
- [15:40] — U.S. adopting regionally bullying foreign policy
- [17:16] — Breakdown of Hegseth’s offensive meme and its implications
- [20:04] — The “clinging to wreckage” detail as a moral and political inflection point
- [23:32] — “Who gonna check me, boo?” and the global response
- [25:52] — Military morale and ethical crisis
- [28:40] — Congress’s war powers and the GOP’s moral dilemma
- [31:04] & [45:02] — Comic asides: Alcatraz for Trump, “Trumplicans” renaming proposal
5. Tone & Language
The conversation is both irreverent and incisive. The hosts oscillate between biting sarcasm (“I think this administration would use the word deterrence. I use the word bullying!” — Dr. Nola, 15:54) and sharp policy analysis. Dr. Nola brings authority and humor—referencing pop culture, memes, and academic rigor, all in one. The hosts are openly left-leaning, skeptical of MAGA narratives, but strive to differentiate hyperbole from actionable truths.
6. Final Thoughts
- The incident transcends partisan politics, fracturing usual allegiances—even House GOP leadership speaks out.
- There’s broad concern about unchecked executive military action, the manipulation of national security for political ends, and the decline in institutional accountability.
- Everyone agrees: the issue isn’t just Hegseth or Trump. It’s about principle, legality, and America’s role on the world stage.
- Dr. Nola’s parting shot: Republican lawmakers must decide if they want “back murder” to be their legacy.
Memorable Closing:
“You have no idea how emotional that just made me, because that really is my ministry.” (Dr. Nola Hayes, 32:48)
“We now know the person we call when people get blown up. That's Dr. Nola.” (Tim, 33:00)
For listeners: This episode delivers a blend of high-stakes analysis, scathing humor, and a call for accountability in chaotic times. Dr. Nola’s clarity on legal definitions and foreign policy context is especially helpful for those seeking to separate “signal from noise.”
Visit:
- Dr. Nola’s Substack: Security Brief
- Find Out Podcast: findoutpodcast.substack.com
- Follow hosts and guest on Threads and social media for updates