Dr. Nola Haynes Compares Trump's War With Iran To Bush's War With Iraq

Summary

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The Find Out Podcast

Episode: Dr. Nola Haynes Compares Trump's War With Iran To Bush's War With Iraq
Date: March 26, 2026
Host: Find Out Media & Studio71
Guest: Dr. Nola Haynes

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Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth, irreverent, and often darkly comic discussion of U.S. foreign policy during Trump’s second term, centered on the current U.S. war with Iran. The team welcomes Dr. Nola Haynes—national security and foreign policy expert, and now host of “Nola Haynes Is Not a Spy”—to compare the Iran war to George W. Bush’s Iraq war, unpack the role of Israel and oil interests, examine corruption and conflicts of interest, and contemplate what meaningful accountability and justice might look like. The conversation also touches on the dangers of presidential overreach, erosion of democratic norms, U.S. standing in the world, and just how surreal the Trump era remains.

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Meet the Guest: Dr. Nola Haynes and Her New Show

[01:25-04:53]

• Nola Haynes is introduced as Find Out Media’s resident foreign policy and security expert and host of the new show “Nola Haynes Is Not a Spy.”
• Her show aims to make foreign policy accessible by connecting it with culture and personal stories, rather than “rolling your eyes at wonky jargon.”
• Quote (Dr. Haynes, 02:58):
  “We do foreign policy differently...We bring in those old school TV shows and films you grew up with.”
• First guest is Harry Dunn, January 6 officer and Congressional candidate, discussing how culture shapes our ideas of justice and law enforcement (“He loves Law & Order: SVU—Spoo!”).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Is the U.S. at War With Iran? (Parallels With Iraq)

[05:51-07:52]

• Dr. Haynes argues that Trump’s administration has made the war about regime change, but the larger game seems to be positioning Israel (specifically under Netanyahu) as a regional oil hegemon.
• Biden-Harris distanced themselves from this plan, but Trump is “gung-ho” about breaking international norms.
• Quote (Haynes, 05:51):
  “What it is looking like is for Israel under Netanyahu to be positioned as not just the hegemon in the region, but also controlling oil and all the energy that flows through the Middle East.”
• Points out this is not a new idea, and warns other regional players (e.g., Dubai, other Gulf states) will respond.

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2. Sanctions, Oil, and Foreign Policy “Wrecking Ball”

[08:50-10:58]

• Trump abruptly green-lights Iranian oil sales ("up to $14 billion") to lower global prices—seen as self-defeating and fueling Iran’s war capability.
• Haynes critiques Trump’s erratic, undoing, and reckless approach to international systems.
• Quote (Haynes, 09:29):
  “Trump came in with a wrecking ball...You do one thing that undoes years and years of work that came before it, making that diplomatic instrument useless.”

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3. Who Benefits—and Rampant Corruption

[11:03-12:26]

• Discussion of how apparent government moves around oil and military interventions don't benefit the average American.
• Recent investigations into suspected insider trading before major announcements (Congressional stock purchases 15 minutes prior).
• Quote (Haynes, 12:03):
  “Nothing that’s happening in the Middle East will benefit Americans directly. Will it benefit the Trump family? Probably. Will it benefit congressional members that bought the stock 15 minutes before Trump made the announcement? Probably.”

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4. Conflict of Interest: Jared Kushner as “Special Envoy”

[13:34-14:42]

• Kushner has an official role as Middle East envoy while actively brokering business investments, despite lacking security clearance.
• Haynes explains how real diplomatic channels (special envoys, special employees) are being manipulated for personal gain.
• Sarcasm on presidential appointments (“You are now the shield of America!”)

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5. Accountability: Can Future Administrations Make Trump Officials Pay?

[15:21-16:40]

• Will there be consequences for Trump officials if Democrats win in 2028?
• General skepticism that high-level perpetrators will face real consequences, unless there is significant party will and public pressure.
• Quote (Host, 16:40): “Democrats have to change their positioning and go, ‘No, fuck this. You almost broke this country, you need to pay.’”

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6. Pardons, Institutional Weakness, and Shared Power

[18:14-21:00]

• Concern that broad preemptive pardons will protect Trump loyalists.
• Discussion of Senate rules, filibuster, and the fragility of federal norms (e.g., parliamentarian could be swapped for a MAGA loyalist).
• Suggestion that the presidency’s power should be limited—Congress has surrendered too much.

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7. Legality and Precedent: Is This Even Legal?

[21:23-25:18]

• Dr. Haynes asserts there was no justification for the Iran war—no direct provocation, only the interests of allies like Israel and Saudi Arabia.
• Explains concept of proportional response and why U.S. interventions in Afghanistan/Iraq at least had ostensible triggers; none exist here.
• Warns that American presidents tend to be shielded from consequence due to the unique legal-cultural status of the office.
• Quote (Haynes, 23:09):
  “We started an illegal war with a country, killing its citizens. This was not why we went in...This is at the behest of another country. And that is the problem.”

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8. War Escalation: Are U.S. Troops About to Invade?

[26:39-29:50]

• Confirmation that thousands of Marines (85th Airborne) are being deployed to the region. Likely for offensive operations, not “peacekeeping.”
• Possible landings near the Strait of Hormuz or key geographic chokepoints in Iran.
• Quote (Haynes, 27:10):
  “This is not a humanitarian mission. This, to my mind, is an invasion.”

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9. U.S. International Standing and China’s Opportunity

[33:13-36:30]

• Allies have little to no enthusiasm (“very hardcore pushback"); U.S. alignment perceived as so rash that even old allies in Europe and Canada are polling readiness to pivot toward China.
• The administration’s aggression and abdication of diplomacy boosts China’s image as a “sympathetic” counterweight, despite their own authoritarian agenda.

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10. Trump, Classified Information, and the Farcical White House

[36:38-44:26]

• New revelations confirm some documents Trump took were so secret only six officials could access them:
  Quote (Haynes, 39:00):
  “If there’s evidence you are taking home such classified documents and that has direct dealings with your company, you have done something illegal. I don’t see how presidential powers protect a president when there is a clear violation of self-interest and self-dealing.”
• Ongoing joke about Trump storing top secrets in a Mar-a-Lago bathroom — “Best place to store ultra-top secret files? FALSE.”
• Trump receives daily video briefings (“a series of clips of stuff blowing up”), designed to keep him focused and pacified rather than informed.
  Quote (Host, 44:10):
  “This is like showing a three-year-old a Pinkfong video. Me like things go boom.”

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11. The Crisis in Civil-Military Relations

[44:26-49:07]

• Dr. Haynes expresses deep concern for service members deployed into a war at the bidding of another country’s leadership (Israel), not genuine U.S. interests.
• Highlights the Trump administration’s efforts to whitewash the military, gut diversity, and blur lines between church, state, and military—part of a “totalitarian playbook.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On regime change and regional hegemony
  “...positioning Israel under Netanyahu… as the hegemon in the region, but also controlling oil and all the energy…” (05:51)
• On the typical American’s benefit from the war
  “None of us are going to see it... nothing that's happening in the Middle East will benefit Americans directly. Will it benefit the Trump family? Possibly. Probably.” (11:42)
• On the erosion of norms
  “They are literally playing in our faces.” (12:58)
• On Trump’s approach to power and corruption
  “Trump came in with a wrecking ball, domestically. ... Is this the way to go about it? No.” (09:29)
• On the impossible question: What happens next?
  “We are going to have thousands of troops deployed...it’s not going to go however the U.S. thinks...Iran is literally waiting on us to do the thing...” (50:36)
• On lack of justification for war:
  “There was no provocation. There was no reason. We are simply there illegally.” (23:09)
• On justice and accountability:
  “Trump and the rest of these people need to be held accountable, and the global community deserves to see accountability.” (52:34)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:25 – Dr. Nola Haynes introduces her new show and explains her approach to foreign policy
• 05:51 – The regime change agenda, Israel’s ambitions, and why the Biden administration said no
• 08:50 – Iran oil “deal” and the self-defeating logic of Trump’s sanctions policy
• 12:03 – Corruption, insider trading, and who really profits from war
• 14:24 – The Kushner conflict of interest, security clearance, and special envoys
• 16:40 – Can future administrations criminally investigate Trump officials?
• 21:23 – The war’s lack of legal or moral justification; proportional response explained
• 26:39 – Are U.S. troops about to invade Iran? Chokepoints and military buildup
• 33:28 – Do any U.S. allies support this? (Short answer: No)
• 36:38 – Trump’s classified document theft and abuse of “secrets as currency”
• 44:26 – The militarization of ideology: Diversity purges and white nationalist military
• 50:36 – “What happens next?”—Risks of a quagmire and the international fallout
• 52:34 – Vision for accountability: “We need tribunals”

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Tone & Style

The conversation is a mix of biting satire, dark humor, and earnest policy critique, punctuated by irreverent banter, sarcastic asides ("Spoo!"), and blunt moments of outrage and fatigue ("We’re literally living through it and there’s nothing funny about it."). Jokes about Trump’s attention span, the absurdity of briefing him “like a toddler,” and the collapse of U.S. prestige coexist with deep concern for American institutions and future accountability.

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Conclusion

This episode is a must-listen for anyone bewildered or enraged by current U.S. foreign policy. Dr. Nola Haynes brings expertise, perspective, and a grounded call for justice amid the chaos. The hosts keep things moving with humor and candor, ensuring listeners both learn and commiserate, even as the podcast ends with the sobering thought that unless accountability arrives, the cycle of forever war—and governing by personal ambition—will keep repeating.

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“Trump and the rest of these people need to be held accountable, and the global community deserves to see accountability.” — Dr. Nola Haynes [52:34]

Transcript

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[B]

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Find Out Podcast. We have a great, great, great show for you today. We're going to be talking about all kinds of foreign policy stuff, the war to run, new secrets that apparently Trump was keeping in Mar a Lago that just dropped this morning. And also we're going to talk about a brand new Find out media show with our resident foreign policy and national security expert, Dr. Nola Haynes. Nola, how are you today?

[C]

Hi.

[B]

So Nola is the new host, and Nola's been on the show once before. And Nola is the host of a new show that drops today. So once you. Once you watch this, you go watch that. It's Nola Haynes is not a spy. So, Nola, tell us a little bit about the name and what the show is about, and then we're going to dive into all this crazy stuff in the Middle East.

[C]

Okay? So first of all, thank you guys for having me back on. The first time I was on, we had such a good time that y' all gave me a whole show.

[B]

I know. Message to any important people watching you come on the show, you might get your own show.

[A]

And I think you're our first repeat guest ever, right?

[B]

Yes.

[D]

Oh, shit.

[C]

Feels so special.

[D]

Nice.

[C]

So, first and foremost, I'm so happy to be officially part of the Find Out Media family. And. And I am actually really happy that we had a chance, most of us, to get together in person for the DC launch party. That was really special. And, yeah. So Nola Haynes is not a spy. Regardless of what my father may think, the podcast drops today. Really excited. And, you know, we do all types of fun stuff. We, you know, Tim, we've had conversations about how to talk about foreign policy in a way that people don't roll their eyes, you know, because I'm not in the business of making these very serious topics, entertainment per se. But I do realize people need to get the information differently. So that's where Nola Haynes is. Not a spy comes in. We do foreign policy differently.

[B]

Yeah. And you've already got some great guests lined up. And who is your guest? I think it's a friend of this show, actually. Is your first guest.

[C]

Yes. Harry Dunn. Harry Dunn is our first guest. People know him, unfortunately, from January 6th. He's the huge black guy that my friend Condi has branded Teddy Bey. And Teddy be. Has stuck. She. She's the branding queen. So, yes, we talked to Teddy Bey, who's also running for Congress here in Maryland, and we're really excited. In that episode, we really crystallizes what Nola Haynes is not as biased about. So first, the mission. The mission is to talk about foreign policy and security, but in a way where it meets culture. Right. So we bring in those old school TV shows and films that you might have grown up with. Like, for instance, I'm gonna give one part away from the Harry Dunn interview. He loves Special Victim Unit. He loves Law and Order.

[B]

Oh, Spoo.

[C]

Harry. Huh?

[B]

I always call it Spoo. Spoo.

[D]

I haven't heard.

[C]

I heard svu. I haven't heard Spoo. So he loves svu. It's not necessarily why he became a cop per se, but it's those things that kind. That we grow up with that we don't think about in the context of being national security focused or foreign policy focused. So that's how we're bringing culture into the conversation. How we're getting to know people deeper is through what you watched as a kid, you know, and what you still watch. Like, for instance, I loved Commando growing up as a child because I loved Alyssa Milano. Like, I loved Commando, and I was like, I want to be Alyssa Milano and do action films when I grow up. So that was really informative for me. So those are the sorts of things that we're getting at when we talk to all these exciting people. Like, what were those movies that you liked when you grew up? And do you still tune in?

[B]

Yeah, and I will say we've. I've seen some bits of it already. It's really, really engaging, really interesting, and I think people are going to really like it also. I know it's going to be a hit because when Nola came to the. To the launch party, she came with a. She rolled like a. Like 50 people deep. Like, she. She packed the room. So I know even if they just listen, it's going to be a hit. So you guys should get on board because you're going to be hearing a lot more about this. So. But anyways, so. So everybody go check out Nola Haynes is not a spy. It's available. Wherever you watch this show, it will be right next to it. So. So you can go ahead and check that out. But Nola. So foreign policy, national security is also in the news because we are in a war that nobody seems to understand why we're in it. So I know you have all the answers, Nola. I know you can read deeply into the mind of Donald Trump. Do you have any sense we're in like week, what, four, three or four of this war? Do we know why we're there? The.

[C]

It's starting to become clearer. You know, at the beginning, the administration or the regime, they were not shy about bandying around concepts like regime change. And I don't think that they've moved away from that idea. But something a little bit more is starting to become clearer, and that is Israel's positioning in all of this. Right. Regime change to what end? And what it is looking like is for Israel under Netanyahu to be positioned as not just maybe the hegemon in the region, but also controlling oil and all the energy that flows through the Middle East. So that is a potential end goal to this. And I want to really point out to people that this isn't a new concept that Bibi Netanyahu has floated. It's a reason why the Biden Harris administration did not get on board with this plan. Right. But here comes Trump, he's gung ho. Hey, let's, let's, let's do it. Let's break international law all over the place. Because there is this idea not so much about a superpower more than there's an idea of kind of like regional hegemons, regional powers. Right. So I am still waiting to see if that is in fact the end goal. Because we don't know what China is doing per se and how they feel about that. They haven't really chimed in other than they want the war in Iran to stop. So it can't just be Netanyahu and Trump, you know, maneuvering around the world, trying to carve it out in their vision. There are many other actors involved in this. And the last thing that I'll say about this kind of regime change wanting to position Israel as the regional hegemon. I think the other countries have something to say. You know, Dubai waking up to a five star hotel being bombed was not on their bingo card, I'm quite sure.

[B]

Right, right. I mean, I think that That's. I think we're in a mess now because Donald Trump went in without a clear objective and he was, as you said, talking about regime change. And yes, we have killed a lot of their high up leaders. The Ayatollah, though, we replaced Ayatollah Khomeini with Ayatollah Khomeini, which we still haven't seen a proof of life of. But, you know, theoretically the leader. And we've killed a bunch of other people. But I think one of the things I'm really curious to get your take on. Nolan, this is going to be a slightly sarcastic question. No, when you were in a. Oh, I got it. My main roots are going to come out on this one. Do you think it is generally a good idea when you are at war with somebody to allow them to generate more revenue during the fight, when you're battling with them by, say, selling oil that has been banned from sales for years? Do you think that's a good idea?

[C]

It's not a good idea. None of this is a good idea. Tim, I'm gonna have a sarcastic question.

[B]

I don't know. I mean, so those who don't know, Donald Trump has now said he's going to allow Iran to sell their oil. And in order to up to $14 billion worth, I believe, in order to drop the price of oil globally, which I don't think is going to work.

[D]

How many of those little drones can you buy with $14 billion?

[B]

Not very fucking many, I don't think.

[C]

A lot. A lot?

[B]

No.

[D]

The little, the little Iranian drones that are like $20,000 a pop.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

That. They cost nothing. Not ours.

[D]

Right, right, right. Not ours. No, ours. You could get half of a drone. You can get one with one propeller.

[C]

Ukraine is. They're quite good at building those cheaply. You know, it's interesting. I got into media through my work on sanctions. So it's interesting when I'm reading that sanctions are lifted for Russia and also for Iran, and I'm like, okay, so what's the point? And this is the larger problem with all of this. You know, Trump came in with a wrecking ball, you know, domestically, starting with Doge, and he's maneuvered through our country and other countries with a wrecking ball. And here's the thing. As an international relations political scientist, I will be the first one to tell y' all that our international system needs help and it needs fixing. Is this the way to go about it? No. Was Doge the way to go about our problems in the federal Government? Absolutely not. So you do one thing that undoes years and years and years of work that came before it, and making that work obsolete, making that potential instrument, that, that diplomatic instrument pretty much useless. And that's the problem I have with this, because Donald Trump does not take his time. He's not a student of anything. And he just goes in and destroys and destroys and destroys without understanding anything. That is my overall problem with this regime.

[A]

Yeah, I can understand that. Like, that's. He's the least detail oriented person I think I've ever.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like not even a president, just as a human being. Yeah, even that position is scary. My question is going back to what we were just talking about with Israel wanting to sort of become the arbiter of how oil flows in the region. And like Trump being dragged into that. How could, like, if I'm Trump and that happens, let's say it happens, and Israel gets in that position, what is the net benefit to America for that happening? And how could he even sell that as a win for us versus a win for Israel? Like, what do we get out of it? Because that seems to be the question of like, the whole thing. Like, what's the value that we get out of any of this? So is there a potential downstream American value to that outcome that could have drawn him towards it?

[C]

Zach, you already know the answer to that. There's no. Damn.

[A]

I'm just asking, you know, it's worth.

[C]

Even if there is a percentage from that deal, none of us are going to see it. You know what I'm saying? None of us are going to see it. I think we're still waiting on our dose checks.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know what I mean? Like refunds, what would you say?

[B]

And our tariff refunds.

[C]

Exactly.

[D]

Our seven checks coming.

[C]

Like, nothing that's happening in the Middle east will benefit Americans directly. Will it benefit the Trump family? Possibly. Probably. Will it benefit those congressional members that bought the stock 15 minutes before Trump made the announcement that the US and Iran were in talks? Probably. Will it benefit us? Probably not.

[A]

Great.

[B]

So can we just go back to that for a second? Because that, that's been popping around recently. Can you explain a little bit more about that trade? Like what? That, like the. I mean, not necessarily all the details, but there was a stock trade of a large amount 15 minutes before Trump announced that he was. Oh, I think we're going into talks, which we've turned. Just turned out is not true. But yeah. What. What was that?

[C]

As far as we know, it was insider stock trading.

[B]

It's not we don't know who it is, though. Right, Right. We don't know who it is, but

[C]

there's a pattern because this isn't the first time that's happened. This, this isn't the first time it's happened under the Trump regime. And I'm sure some intrepid investigative reporters are out there piecing those, connecting those dots as we speak. But there definitely is a pattern, and it is a problem. Corruption. Corruption. Corruption is the one word that everyone should be shouting and screaming when it comes to this administration. I mean, the corruption is naked. It is just in your face. And as we like to say in the black community, they are literally playing in our faces.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, we've got Jared Kushner, who is doing both, apparently is our special envoy to the Middle east, because clearly spirits, but he's doing that official job with the federal government at the same time that he's trying to find, I believe, $5 billion or some amount for his business ventures. I mean, if we want to talk about conflict of interest, there you go. Like, when I was in the federal government, I couldn't do anything outside. And this guy's like, raising billions of dollars from the same people who may have the fate of this war in their hands.

[C]

So he's a special envoy in the same way former Secretary Kerry was the climate envoy in the Biden Harris administration. So he has that, that formalized designation without being able to get security clearance.

[B]

Right. How does that work?

[C]

One, he wasn't able to get security clearance. I'm very curious about that.

[B]

See, I thought you were going to joke that he, he has the same job that Kristi Noem now has, which they fired her and basically made up a job. You are now the shield of America. And everyone's like, what the fuck?

[C]

So a special envoy is a real thing, though. That is a real. And this is part of the thing that pisses me off. Special government employee. Like, with what Elon Musk was like what I was. Special envoy. These are real designations. So again, they are manipulating and using actual tools and instruments within the government, while also trying to destroy and dismantle and circumnavigate the actual rules that, that stand up the federal government. And when you have a role like a special envoy, I would imagine security clearance is probably important, especially if you're dealing in the Middle east. We're talking about WMDs, we're talking about conventional weapons. I think you kind of need clearance.

[A]

I, I, I have a question for. I get Nola and Tim kind of because you guys have been in the Washington universe for a long time and like we all want them to pay the price for this. Like let's say a Democrat wins in 28, hopefully. How hard is it going to be to hold people who are doing this shit accountable for the things they're doing? Because we all want them to be held accountable. But like, how just structurally difficult is it going to be to have them actually meet some kind of consequence for all the things they've done?

[B]

Well, it depends and I think a lot of it depends on how the primaries go for Democrats in 27 and 28. And I'll tell you right now, I'm not going to support anybody that's not full throated investigations on investigations on investigations and punishment. One of the reasons that we got throttled in 12, not 12, 10, 2010 and then also in 2016 was the fact that a lot of people were disillusioned that Democrats did not prosecute anybody for the financial crash in 2008. That was a monster mistake. That was a mistake that the administration that we both were in at one point, that we was a thing I vehemently disagreed with. But the question about holding them accountable, it really depends on who we're talking about. Like the low level guys, sure you can, like that's easy.

[A]

But you know, I mean, the high level guys.

[B]

Yeah. So the high level, I, I mean I think that, I think that they're, this is a moment for Democrats where they have to change their positioning and go, no, fuck this. Like, you almost broke this country, you need to pay. And I think that they, I think that they can really do it if they get aggressive, if they put a very smart prosecutor in the Attorney General seat. And I think that Trump with his age and the immunity bullshit is a little tricky. But like, I think they should go after everybody. I think they can do it, but they're going to need pushing to do it. Not sure how to tackle your taxes? Are you sweating the small print? You may be experiencing FOMO, the fear of messing up the answer using TurboTax on Intuit credit Karma. They help you get your biggest refund and then we help you do more with it with a personalized plan designed to help you hit your money goals. It's time to take your taxes to the max. Start filing today in the credit karma app. TaxAct understands you haven't memorized the tax code. That's why TaxAct has live experts to help. TaxAct can even do it for you if you prefer. It's the Easiest way to know you're doing it right. Well, other than going back to college and obtaining a bachelor's degree in accounting with a minor in finance, then interning somewhere and becoming fluent in all tax forms. But that might be hard to accomplish before tax day, so maybe just stick with TaxAct Tax Act. Let's get them over with.

[D]

My question is, how do we deal with pardons? Because, I mean, he's going to preemptively pardon everybody.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

For everything anyone did for him ever. But, I mean, a lot of those people will turn around and commit more crimes, just like the J6 insurrection. Like.

[B]

Well, yeah, there's so many Gen6 guys are now back in jail because they did more crimes. Because they're all pieces. They went and hurt a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There is at least one.

[D]

But I totally agree. We, we have to run on justice. I mean, you just have to run on justice and accountability. We also have to run on closing the systemic gaps that allowed all of these things to happen. Like, I was just looking at the filibuster the other day and just the Senate rules around the SAVE Act. I don't think people realize how much is just because of the Senate rules. The parliamentarian is just a person who serves at the majority leader's whim and can be replaced at any time. Every single thing that Trump wants done. Don't let him hear, hear this. Every single thing that Trump wants done could be done with a simple majority vote. If John Thune just said the parliamentarian has got to go and replaced with a MAGA loyalist who just allowed all the rules to be broken in the Senate, like, that is literally the last thing standing between us and the SAVE Act. And like all the, in the, and the MEGA act, all the, the additional voting rights restrictions, like, it's, it's, it's terrifying. We have to have federal laws that change that so that we're not just hoping people back the system because they want to be.

[B]

I would be in favor of, of limits or the elimination of the pardon for president, period. I don't think, like, when you get like five or. Yeah, you get a number. You're just like, you get five. That's like, get out. That's a literal get out of jail for a free card.

[D]

If you like more criminals than five, then you're going to have a problem.

[B]

This is the other thing that I think that the, the, the candidate that will end up being victorious in the Democratic Party, I think that they should be offering solutions that actually limit the power of the Presidency. And like the fact that Congress is completely, you know, basically threw its hands up and said to the President, you could do whatever the hell you want. Like, there needs to be some reining in of this. And the fact that we are waging a war, it is a war, without congressional approval is also illegal. There was no cleared present threat threat. And the only threat we've heard is Bibi Netanyahu, who has said for 40 years that Iran is three months away from a nuclear weapon. He has said that for four. You can find clips that go way back. So I think we need to say it for 30 years. Yeah, I think it's a justice. Like you said, Rich, there needs to be a justice agenda which includes prosecuting people, limiting the powers and doing things to make sure that this doesn't happen again.

[D]

How do we, what law stops that from happening again in the future without handcuffing the President's ability to like, to respond? Does it have to be a retaliation that they're allowed to do? Or like, how do we stop preemptive forever wars being an option for the President without, you know, handcuffing our ability to defend ourselves?

[C]

Well, that's a great question. And then I will also circle back with the. About what needs to happen about the justice agenda. So in terms of what law is being violated, So I want to be very clear, there was no justification, there was no reason for us to go into Iran. Inasmuch as people do not like Iraq, to do not like Afghanistan. There was ostensibly a reason, and that's 9, 11. There is no precursor, there is no reason for us to be in Iran. So typically, and this is something that Barack Obama spent a lot of time thinking about, we have this concept called proportional response. Right. So say if something happens in the Middle east to one of our partners is a strong word, maybe one of our friends, like with Iraq, one. We go in, we keep our promise to our friend, and we get out. Right. Or if Syria bombs its civilians and we take it upon ourselves to have some sort of proportional response and we go in and we blow up a facility that maybe makes the chemical drug. There are reasons for the US to respond in different situations. Iran is us going in because Israel and possibly Saudi Arabia wanted us to go in. So I need that to. I need those things to be separate. There was no provocation. There was no reason. We are simply there illegally. We started an illegal war with a country killing its citizens. Yes. Doing horrific things. Yes. But that was not why we went in. Right. This is at the behest of another country. And that is the issue, that is the problem. And what I will say about the justice agenda, which I completely agree with, and I want to remind people, you know, Bibi out here with a warrant, just FYI, right? He out here with a warrant, right. So in terms of what needs to happen, the issue is the problem is the presidency in and of itself. No one wants to run for office where they may need to cannibalize themselves. Right? So one of the reasons why people run for president, although we say we don't have a king or a queen in this country, is because you imagine you're going to be shielded from certain challenging decisions you, you may have to make. And those typically are around foreign policy decisions. So in terms of getting someone to want to run, run for 28, to stand on a justice agenda, to stand on accountability, not to pardon Trump, not to make the mistake of Nixon, you. We need to have a candidate that will be okay with presidents not being fully protected, and that is going to be a hard sell. Additionally, like with law enforcement, one of the reasons why people become cops is because, you know, the culture says, we will protect you. Right? You, you, you, you are safe here. You know, you may have to make hard calls and hard choices, but we have your back. It's the same thing with being President of the United States. The law has your back, essentially. Right. So we need a candidate out there, what Rich said, standing on justice, standing on accountability, but also we need a candidate out there that isn't interested in doing things as they were. That world is gone. That world is done. So when you're looking at a Gavin Newsom, who is very status quo, I don't know. I don't know. He talks a good game, depending on who he's speaking to, but people are looking for authenticity because they're going to pull up those receipts. People are looking for a fighter, not just for their own ends, but for all of us.

[A]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

Well, I think that the, the person who runs has to show that, like, they're willing to take some negative with the positive. Right. And I think that that will go a long way, and I think it has to be someone authentic, but somebody that speaks to that and in a new path forward. I haven't heard a new path forward. Anyway. Yeah, we're all waiting on that. Right? We're all waiting on that. But. But no, I gotta push back on the. No justification for the war in Iran. Yeah. Caroline left car, Carol. Exactly. Caroline Levitt told us that Trump had A premonition. Oh, there you go. Like fixed. He thought. He thought that we were going to get attacked, so therefore he bombed a school full of children.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Response. And then tried to say we didn't do it. Girls school that other Republicans have now said are better off dead rather than being in burkas. These are the people that we're dealing with here. And that person who said that also has been credibly accused of sexual assault by several men. But anyways, that's a whole different thing. So the other thing that's disturbing about this war, outside of all the things we've talked about already, is that we got word this morning or late last night that I believe we are sending two to three thousand marines to the Middle East. Destination TBD. Always fun at that.

[C]

The 85th. The 85th Airborne. It's about. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So we're, you know, Marines. I have, I have no military background, but I know enough to know that, like, the Marines are generally the first ones in, especially with an amphibious.

[C]

That specific unit. Yeah.

[B]

And that specific unit. So is this a. Is this Trump negotiating or is this Trump invading?

[C]

Well, he's negotiating with his invisible friends, I guess in his dream state.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I guess that can happen.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So this is what's so interesting about all of this. And I've actually been talking to a few folks about the. The. There, there are a few possibilities, especially with bringing the 85th in, that definitely isn't about peace. And, you know, there are some similarities to Vietnam here, but there is one major difference. And I saw the episode that you. That you all did on it. So I, at some point, Vietnam was one of the case studies that I was working on, I think, in my. In my PhD program. And one of the things that's so interesting about the Vietnam case that is very different with this. First of all, jfk. Jf. Jfk. Well, he was an actual. He actually served, as we all know, and he was also a student of the world. And so JFK actually warned his own military against going into Vietnam. Why? Because he had been there in 1951. He had seen the resolve of the people. He had seen the challenging terrain, and he brought that intel back and he was not listened to. Donald Trump is not that type of person. He is not that kind of leader. He. He is not that kind of president. That is a major difference here. Right. So you had a person at the helm of Vietnam at one point who did not want to go into Vietnam. Right. Where Trump seems to be all in without knowing what he is doing. And when you have a buildup of military, military personnel like that in country, this is not a humanitarian mission. This, to my mind, is an invasion. And there are conversations about where this can potentially happen. So there's the island of Hartz, there's Qeshm, and then there's also an area on a border of Pakistan that could give the United States some sort of tactical advantage. But Iran's geography makes all of these different things very, very difficult. So trying to figure out exactly where they're going to land and what the motive is. I mean, I don't have a crystal ball, but this is all about oil, y'. All. This is all about oil, you know, so it stands to reason that it's going to have something to do with the Strait of Hormuz or even at the nape, which is Kesham. And will we be deployed in that area to fight for the Strait? Oh, Hormuz. This is what we need to. This is what we need to keep an eye on. Are we deploying American soldiers because we are wanting to fight for control for the straight. That's just a question that's out there.

[B]

Oh, that's great. Oh, yeah, dandy. Oh, yeah. You know, it's like I'm just sitting here pondering.

[C]

I'll make y' all speechless.

[B]

Oh, congratulations. That might be one of the first times ever.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

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your $1 per month [e-mail] SpecialOffer AI is incredible. It can teach you how to fry an egg and even write a poem pirate style, but it knows nothing about your work. Slackbot is different. It doesn't just know the facts, it knows your schedule. It can turn a brainstorm into a brief. And it doesn't need to be taught, because Slackbot isn't just another AI. It's AI that knows your work as well as you do. Visit slack.com meetslackbot to learn more. Well, and the thing, the thing that, you know, I think everyone's seen this by now, but Trump the other day said that he was not going to strike the at first he threatened to strike their energy production capabilities. Then he said, oh, we've had great talks with Iran, so we're going to pause for five days. Trump always a delay, right? There's always Taco, right? Two week Trump always chickens out. Two week Trump. And then it turns out that Iran had not talked to Donald Trump, but who had talked to Donald Trump were a bunch of our allies who were basically like, what the hell are you doing? We saw the Macron texts from before because Trump leaked them. Weirdly, they didn't make him look good.

[A]

The Greenland ones?

[B]

No, the ones where he was. Oh yeah, it was Greenland. Sorry, it wasn't Iran. But like, they all think he's an idiot, of course. Already. But like what? So like what are we doing in this middle period? Because we haven't been talking to Iran. Like, unless they're telling Trump. Because I heard there was a story this morning that said that they're not actually giving Trump all of the accurate information because they're trying to not make him mad, which is really, really problematic.

[A]

Not childish at all. Yeah.

[B]

Not surprising though.

[A]

No.

[B]

So do we have any support amongst any of our allies? Nola on this incursion Is there anybody who's like, yeah, besides, I'm not counting Israel, but they clearly do. But like, is there anybody else with us?

[C]

Not really. What could happen is we have a damn moment. And what I mean by that is, is countries might be forced to get involved because we're at a FUBAR stage and they might just be like, damn, okay, you know, to protect our interests, we might have to get involved with this BS that we don't want to be involved with. That could be, you know, one of the situations and what I suspect that this regime is trying to force people to do. But, you know, like, the Prime Minister of Spain, you know, has been very vocal and very open about. We are not about to get involved in this mess. This is Yalls thing. We don't have anything to do with it. Oh, in America, by the way, your leader sucks. So, you know, there hasn't. It's not just like a. It's a no for me dog, but it's also like very hardcore pushback from some of these leaders. No one wants this war. No one fully understands it. And they definitely don't want to go to war because this is something that Bibi Netanyahu wants.

[A]

Yeah, I saw this thing yesterday or the day before that was the most terrifying thing I've ever seen where it was like. I think it was a Politico poll amongst people from like Canada, the uk I think it was German, and one other, one of our major allies. The large percentage of them, given Trump's current actions and who he is, would rather be aligned with China than us in these countries. That's how bad this shit is. Like that, that I looked at that. I'm like, how the. Like, I mean, it makes sense, right? Like we're looking at. It all makes sense. But like, that's sort of. When I look at all this in totality, to me that's really the end consequence where it's like all this stuff, short term, it's bad, it's whatever, like, great. The real danger to me long term is like, we are going to lose our standing in this world and countries like China are going to take the standing we had. Like, there's nobody else.

[C]

Read my substack article, Zach.

[A]

I may be familiar, but it's true.

[C]

Advocating to China, definitely. And you know, I will tell you, in the last administration, that was definitely one of the things that we were focused on. China, China, China. Almost to the point where, you know, some people were like, okay, enough with the China threat. We get it. But what we are doing is just making it easy for China to be more of the sympathetic state than what it actually is.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

You know, 100%. We are talking about a hardcore dictatorship. Right. And being in a space world, you know, China, I can't have a conversation without space, without China, because that is the constant competitor that we are worried about. And so not only have we abdicated our diplomatic role, you know, around the world, because this administration believes in an aggressive material deterrence first posture, but we've also made China more sympathetic. So they are owning a narrative and they are making. They're also gaining new clients and customers.

[A]

Great, great.

[B]

Excellent. All wonderful. Well, let. Let's move to another wonderful thing.

[A]

Another rosy topic.

[B]

Another rosy topic that was disclosed this morning. I don't know who reported it first, but that the document, documents that Donald Trump stole from the White House when he went to Mar a Lago were so highly classified that only six. The number six. Six people in the federal government who even knew what were in them. Now, I'm not asking you to tell us, Nola, what's in. And I think also there was an assumption that those documents, Trump took them because there were some business dealings where he could benefit from that information. Now, I'm not asking you to tell me what's in the documents, but how rare is it to have a document that only six people in the federal government have access to?

[C]

Okay, just so we can clear this up, because I know a lot of people out there actually think I'm a real spy. I'm not. I don't know what's in those documents, y'. All. Just FYI, I don't know what the hell's in those documents.

[B]

Okay?

[C]

I just want to make that clear. So, you know, security clearance, this is a huge thing for me right now. Because, Tim, you know, this is not an easy process to get your security clearance. Right? And the smallest infraction will get you put in jail. Okay? Not just fired, but I mean, jail and maybe even disappeared. You know what I mean? Like, depending on what's in the documents, national security in this country, once upon a time was the most serious currency. Right? Intel is currency. Secrets are currency. Which Donald Trump understands as a wannabe gangster, he gets that. He understands that secrets are currency, which is why he took them. Right. He understands that you can probably blackmail people. I don't know if that's what he's doing, but, you know, there are a lot of people out there asking questions. The way that some of these congressional elected are moving like, damn, what does he have on these people, you know, but the point here is, first of all, I'm glad that Jack Smith is talking because this is important. This was the one case that I was looking at, and I actually thought it was going to be the case that put him underneath the jail, because it absolutely should have been the case to put him underneath the jail.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Okay, Bring it. I don't care if you are the President of the United States, but if there's evidence that you are taking home such classified documents and that has direct dealings with your company, you have done something illegal, I don't see how presidential powers protects a president when there is a clear violation of self interest and self dealing. Right. I get very angry the way that Trump 1 and Trump 2 mishandles security clearances and the way that they punish people by taking them away if they don't like you. But folks, I need y' all to understand, when you get cleared, it's a whole process, because the information that you have, what you know about this country, it's vital. And we're talking about actual people's lives. People that go out that, that, that collect that data, they are risking their lives. It's one of the reasons why the national security apparatus exists the way that it does. One of the major reasons being to protect our intel assets. Trump doesn't get that.

[B]

So I have a. This may be the most important question that I have ever asked, and I'm not a spy, and I'm not asking you about it being a spy. Agree or disagree? A bathroom in an unsecure building is the best place to store documents that only six people are legally allowed to see. True or false? Nola, True or false?

[C]

False. And you just put a visual in my head about Donald Trump's. McDonald's.

[B]

Oh, God.

[D]

That's what I was gonna say. What are the odds More than 6 people on planet earth would go into a bathroom that Donald Trump has used? That's the real question that might be the most.

[B]

Is this his version of Reader's Digest? There's like an adult changing station.

[C]

I think he reads Reader's Digest.

[B]

I don't think he reads at all. He definitely doesn't read. They have to write, put charts. They said this came out the first term. They have to put charts and graphs and nothing can be more than a page.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Literally a picture book.

[D]

Only since you brought it up, there was a delicious headline this morning from NBC News. Inside Trump's daily video montage briefing on the Iran war.

[B]

So have they won even this yeah.

[A]

Really?

[D]

This is. This is keeping your kid distracted at Chili's as you wait for the food to come.

[B]

Ms. Rachel. They put the Ms. Rachel on for Trump.

[D]

For real.

[C]

Is he at Chili's?

[D]

The bad guys.

[B]

It's too elevated.

[A]

Exactly.

[D]

He's the kid wiping his boogers on the balls in the ball pit.

[B]

God damn it.

[D]

You know, that was.

[B]

Put him in a play place permanently.

[D]

I like that.

[B]

I mean, I, I.

[D]

No doors.

[B]

He just lost him an amusement park that is just like that just like, tells him how amazing he is. And we just put him over there.

[A]

A shrine to Tron.

[B]

You can have. I'll pay my tax dollars can go to that if it gets him away from us.

[C]

You know, it's wild when I take the basin sometimes to go to Georgetown and to see his name on a Kennedy center like that does something to me almost every single time I pass it. Like, I can't even. It does something to me emotionally and spiritually. And I'm like, it's.

[B]

It's dictatorship. I. The last time I was in D.C. i took a cab from Union Station. And you go down. What is that Constitution? And what on the Department of Labor is a giant. Giant poster of him.

[D]

He put himself on a coin. I don't even think that's.

[B]

He's on the 250. Yeah. I thought they had to be dead. Is that not true? Maybe that's a UK thing or something.

[C]

No, I don't matter in this administration.

[B]

What are we. What are we doing here?

[D]

I think it's one of those, like, toothless internal policies that you don't put a sitting president on a coin because that's kind of like dictated.

[B]

And here there was one thing that I actually supported that Donald Trump did, and now he's ruined it for me, which was to get rid of the penny, because I think the penny is dumb. It's a waste of money. But now he's got a dollar coin instead. Makes, like, negates all of that. So I don't even have that anymore. But, you know, so.

[D]

So just to. Just to wrap this one up.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Because. Because it's so good. The daily montage. This is what the NBC article says. The daily Montage typically runs for about two minutes, sometimes longer. One official described each daily video as a series of clips of stuff blowing up. And, yeah, feeling. Fueling concerns among some. Fueling concerns deeply, like Susan Collins. Concern among some of Trump's allies that he may. May not be receiving or absorbing the complete picture of the war. And that's what's driving his frustration with the news coverage of the war is he's looking at the news and it doesn't match his highlight reel. That is spoon fed to him every morning by the people who are afraid to give him bad news. So this is going to go super well, I think.

[B]

So is this when Marco Rubio goes into the Oval with the shoes that

[D]

are the clown shoes?

[B]

Yeah, because Trump bought them for him and got the wrong size.

[D]

Mr. President, I got your video.

[B]

So he comes flopping in and he's like, we got, we got some blow up shit, Trump. And he's like, yeah, I mean, this is like two minute videos. This is like showing a three year old a pink pong video. Yeah, yeah, they're just playing it. Oh, they play it over and over again. He's like, me show things go boom. Yeah, like that. What?

[C]

Like with his shiny, tacky gold, you know, like just, just, just the whole, everywhere, the whole dictator, you know, kind of miss mystique. Like, like it's, it's farcical and it would be hilarious. It would be a great reality show if we weren't living through it. Like, if I was in another country and I wasn't an American, I would be watching this shit daily with popcorn. Like, this is hilarious. But we are literally living through it and there's nothing funny about it. You know, I definitely think about our service members. It's, it's one thing to sign up to fight for your country, but it's another thing to sign up and fight at the behest of another country. And for president, I'm all for, you know, civilians being in the security and defense apparatus, you know, like myself, but when you have a civilian who's in charge, who doesn't respect the military, that is what I have a problem with. Because if people, like, say, for instance, if, if people volunteering to go into the military, if that number continues to dip, and there really is no incentive for a black person to sign up to serve under Trump and then say if they institute the draft, we all know that his youngest child is not going. We know that.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

Oh God, no. Well, he's already, they already found his bones first.

[D]

He genetically inherited bones first.

[B]

We talked about, we talked about this months ago, but they changed some orders in, in the, in the military where there were some exemptions from the no beard policy because black men in particular that have a, there's a higher chance of getting like ingrowns, so they allowed them to have beards. And then these, these fuckers were like, no.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And took that away partially because they want an all white military, let's be honest. Right? And. And people of color generally are not, like, as supportive of this administration. So they do these things and they

[C]

want a white nationalist military.

[B]

Right, Sorry. They don't want you.

[C]

White guys are fine. They. They want a white nationalist.

[B]

They don't want us. And honestly, honestly, the military doesn't want us either. It's. It's totally fine that we are. We are not.

[A]

I would be ineffective at best.

[B]

So, no, this is maybe my second most important. Are you suggesting that the former weekend anchor of Fox and Friends is not the person that should be waging a war in the Middle East?

[C]

I got to say a prayer because, you know, first of all, first of all, you will never, in my black Life refer to DoD as Department of War issue number one.

[A]

No way.

[B]

No, no.

[C]

And secondly, it is so clear that what they are trying to do is so clear, blurring the lines between church and state. And there was a case a couple years ago, I cannot remember that case, where I was like, okay, it was a. It was a church and state case. And at that time I was like, okay, this is going to be a problem. This is going to be dangerous. And one of the reasons we are. One of the ways we're seeing this is with Hexa and what he's trying to. To do with the military. Now, part. Part of this kind of comes out of. Out of the totalitarian playbook. You want to nationalize, you know, the military, you want to nationalize education, you want people out there fighting under a specific ideology, not necessarily protecting, you know, US Interests and keeping us safe domestically and abroad, but you want to bring in this kind of nationalistic perspective, right? That is untrue. And that alienates most of the military. One of the reasons why our military has been so effective is because once upon a time, the military understood diversity as its number one strength. Hegseth completely rejects that idea. And I think we're seeing the results of it. I mean, we're seeing this fubar not only because there aren't any black folks in the room, but are there any bearded Middle Eastern folks in the room? Probably not, right? There were expert Middle east folks completely gutted within the bureaucracy of the federal government from state to dod. Like, there has been an intentional gutting of people knowing what they're doing, right? Because the idea is, well, you know, Trump, you know, Trump. Trump knows what he's doing. Trump. Trump. Trump. Trump. Trump. That is a mistake. Trump does Trump is not the United States of America. We are the United States of America. Sorry, I didn't mean to go.

[B]

No, no. I should have hit the applause button on the. I've got.

[D]

Damn.

[B]

It was good. My one time I could have, like, actually gotten it correct, and I. I totally screwed it up. Oh, here we go. I can't get it going.

[A]

That's the best we got.

[B]

Why isn't it playing?

[A]

I don't know.

[D]

Someone took it away from him.

[B]

Yeah, they took away a toddler's toy. Why is that not playing? God damn it.

[C]

What are you doing, Tim? Are you actually looking for an applause button?

[B]

There is an applause button, and now I'm stuck on it, and I can't, like. I can't get this goddamn thing to play good. Why isn't it playing? Play.

[A]

This is. We're watching.

[C]

It's gone.

[B]

Tim, this is a boomer moment for you. Is this what it looks like when Trump tries to order McDonald's? There it is. There it is. They love it. They need more. They need more. Keeps going.

[C]

Jesus.

[B]

Holy man.

[A]

I'm taking that off.

[D]

I don't remember what we were talking about.

[B]

Can we get the producers to take that away from Tim? I am the producer. Just kidding. No, I'm going to keep doing it just to annoy everybody, but we are. We're getting close to time here, so we're going to have to go in a second. But I. I'm going to ask you an impossible question, which is what do you see the outcome of this war being? What is the most likely scenario?

[C]

We are going to have thousands of troops deployed. They're there for a reason, and it's not going to go. However, the US thinks it's going to go, because Iran is literally waiting on us to do the thing the same way that they were waiting on the US and Israel to bomb them, which is why they had a response in under an hour. They have been very clear and very vocal about. Bring it. This is not the first time Iran has lived through extreme situations. Right. This is not the first time that the Iranian people have been strained financially. Right. So in a way where we're not used to it at all because we're, like, losing our minds. Because, you know, gas here in Maryland is like, you know, $4, and people like, you know, coming from LA, that's. That's actually pretty cheap. But my point is, the reason why I'm worried that it's going to be a forever war is simply because you cannot accurately predict what the other person is going to do and, and how they are going to respond. Now, the longer this goes on, it does open up possibilities for other countries to get involved, even if they don't want to get involved, because it's going to be costly, not just to the United States, but to the entire international community. Someone has a stake somewhere in either energy, fertilizer, all the different things that passes through the strait that's connected to the strait. This will impact global stability. And so at some point it will come to an end because other countries will get irritated about how it's affecting them. I don't think Trump really cares about how it affects us. I don't think he cares at all. I think he thinks that we should be grateful and that we should take the punches because he magically believes that we appreciate him being our dear leader. I think that's probably part of his show and tell every morning. I doubt they show him the actual poll number numbers for how Americans are thinking and feeling. But I hope it's not a forever war. And I also hope that there are tribunals because yes, Rich, I agree with you. It needs to be a justice agenda and it can't just be a lot of flower, flowery and buttery words. Trump and the rest of these people need to be held accountable and the global community deserves to see accountability.

[B]

Well, on that note, Nola, thank you very much. Obviously it's not a optimistic ending, but I like the idea of tribunals. Tribunals sound great. I'm in on that. But yet, Nola, thank you very much. It's always great to have you on the show and explain this craziness that's all around us. And everybody, everybody, now that you have finished the Find out podcast, run, not walk, run over and download. Nola Haynes is not a spy, which is available everywhere. She is not a spy. She knows a lot about spies, but she's not one. Go check out her first episode with Harry Dunn, another great person. You know, you can check that out wherever you're listening to this. And with that, don't forget to subscribe to find out Media. Find out media.substack.com and also go subscribe to our YouTube channel, which is growing like rapid fire, which is really, really exciting. So everybody with that, have a wonderful weekend thinking. Hopefully you're not thinking about forever wars all weekend. And you know, don't, don't blame Dr. Nola. She's just giving the, giving you the facts. So with that, hopefully we will be back next week with a little bit more good news. Though I don't know what that would be at this point. I'm just trying to end on a hopeful note with that. Have a wonderful weekend. Hopefully it's a warm weekend and we will be back on Tuesday. All right, bye, everybody.

[C]

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