Rich (2:06)

Well, this is the. What is it the bloodlust? Is that, what is it bloodlusted? Yeah, yeah, it is bloodlusted.

Tim (2:11)

Okay. Yeah.

Chris (2:11)

So 100 men are getting run up.

Tim (2:13)

So I have a question. They're joking. Is it all. Is it one man at a time or is it 100 men at the same time?

Chris (2:19)

At a time.

Rich (2:20)

Yeah.

Luke (2:21)

Can coordinate ahead of time. They're planning it. Gorilla is, is minding his own business and then sees 100 guys try and jump him. So it doesn't matter how the gorilla starts. The gorilla is pissed as soon as he gets punched in the face the first time.

Chris (2:35)

Right.

Rich (2:35)

And there's no, no weapon, no weapons. Right?

Chris (2:38)

No weapons everybody.

Rich (2:41)

All right, well let's start with this. Who thinks the men are going to win?

Tim (2:43)

Me. 100%.

Chris (2:45)

Idiot.

Luke (2:45)

Idiot.

Rich (2:46)

No way.

Zach (2:47)

100.

Tim (2:48)

100 full grown men against.

Rich (2:51)

Okay, break it down. It's okay. Break it down.

Tim (2:54)

In my mind. It's too much. It's. If it were 10, 20, 30, I'd go with the gorilla. 100. I can't fit 100 men in this room. Imagine the overwhelming power of a hundred men. I don't, I mean if it was like a moose sized girl, like a moose, like a thousand pounds, but like a 400lb gorilla. Yeah, it's strong, but you just get him in a headlock and beat the out of them.

Chris (3:13)

They can bench press a car.

Tim (3:14)

Yeah, but it's 100 guys. 100 guys could bench. Okay, here's the question. Okay. If you're going to put in the car a hundred men could lift a car together. That's the same.

Chris (3:21)

Can you fit a hundred men around a car?

Tim (3:24)

No, but I still think the amount of men.

Chris (3:27)

How exactly do 100 men versus 30 men attack differently? There's no space.

Tim (3:32)

I don't. But okay, so just because the gorilla's strong, it wins. I don't get it. How is it one, how is it that strong?

Chris (3:38)

Like a two inch layer of fat to protect from any puncture wounds.

Luke (3:43)

I saw a video of a guy who's, who's like a, like he's a gorilla primate expert.

Chris (3:49)

I saw this video.

Luke (3:50)

Well, and he said that the humans would win.

Chris (3:53)

I think I saw a different one.

Luke (3:55)

His reason for that.

Zach (3:56)

I saw one last night too.

Luke (3:58)

Yeah, and his reason for that was he's saying, like, listen, £400 is a lot of weight and you can only swing that around for, you know, a certain amount of time before you're completely exhausted. Doesn't matter if you're a gorilla. If you are that big, moving around individually, taking out one after another, that is too much. And gorillas do not have the endurance for that. So that, that is what one gorilla scientist on Tick Tock said.

Tim (4:26)

I'm with him.

Rich (4:30)

I'm gonna go maga. Nope. Nope.

Chris (4:32)

Only gorilla.

Rich (4:33)

Nope.

Zach (4:33)

I fundamentally reject your argument, but couldn't.

Tim (4:36)

Okay, so couldn't you just put like five guys grabbing onto his limbs? Couldn't you just like with like put a, you know, 20 guys, just grab each limb.

Chris (4:43)

I don't think it. Okay, how do you fit 20 people on each limb?

Rich (4:47)

I don't know.

Tim (4:48)

That's a good question.

Chris (4:49)

Like, the logistics of it don't work.

Zach (4:51)

I think. I think the way that it would go, it's not 100 versus 1. It's like 10 fights of 10 versus 1.

Rich (4:56)

Yeah.

Chris (4:57)

And every time that 10 is getting smoked.

Rich (4:59)

Yeah.

Tim (5:00)

All right. You're starting to sway me a little bit with that, Zach.

Rich (5:02)

Zach, let me ask you this. Are you willing to lead.

Tim (5:04)

Lead this charge as, like, a person fighting? This could app. No.

Chris (5:10)

Zach is the fodder.

Zach (5:12)

You're the bullet.

Tim (5:13)

Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I was just. It would be 99 versus 1 gorilla if I was one of the hundred.

Zach (5:19)

Zach. Running off into the sunset.

Luke (5:21)

The men have no choice, just as the gorilla has no choice.

Chris (5:26)

I think, like, the first 30 men are immediately done, like, no chance.

Zach (5:30)

Oh, your head's coming off.

Rich (5:31)

Yeah, exactly. The first person, of course, screw your head off, the head's gone. And they're just going to use the body and go360 and just literally be whipping everybody in the face all the way around. I just.

Zach (5:42)

I. Jason did that in a Friday the 13th movie. There was a person camping in a sleeping bag, and he picked them up by their ankles, and he swung him like a baseball bat into a tree in the forest. It was like, I would sign up to watch that. Honestly, now that you're describing it the way that.

Chris (5:58)

That you are, I would also like that.

Zach (6:00)

I mean, because this is going to be not guys that I am friends with who are fighting a gorilla. So, like, you know, if this smells.

Chris (6:06)

Like Mega man, if you have to ask me.

Luke (6:08)

So I don't. I don't know, you know, if everybody grew up with this, but I was born in 85, and, like, elementary school was the Ronald Reagan era. Like, don't use drugs. The. The Stop campaign or whatever.

Tim (6:24)

The.

Rich (6:24)

Whatever.

Tim (6:25)

The dare.

Chris (6:26)

Yeah.

Luke (6:26)

And it was basically, like, traumatized kids and they'll stop doing the bad thing. So there was a. You need to wear your seat belts. If you don't. This is what it looks like. And they'd show us videos of this, like, slow motion, at least at the time. Look super realistic. Like, people in car accidents, like, banging heads together and just their skulls collapsing. So that is what I imagine it would look like if a gorilla grabbed my ankle.

Chris (6:53)

100.

Luke (6:54)

Use me as a. Until my head turns to mush and then grab the next person.

Zach (6:58)

This is your brain on gorilla.

Tim (7:00)

You make. I'm Very skeptical of my position. Now, I may have to change my.

Chris (7:04)

Mind because, like, if. If you could get 100 men to attack at once, somehow I could see them winning.

Tim (7:10)

Right. That's what switched my mind.

Chris (7:11)

And I think the, like, any effective group that could work together is immediately decimate, decimated by.

Tim (7:18)

Yeah.

Rich (7:18)

I also think if you get on the ground with a gorilla, you're toast. Like, damn. No chance. Kill everybody around him. Like, it's just. There's just.

Luke (7:27)

No, but there are. So I need to get into, like, some of the layers of absurdity who think that they can take on gorillas or that any man, for one. Like most. Most people, and I am a combat veteran, I have seen what human beings look like when they are. Are not in good shape. That is horrific. And witnessing that happen, witnessing a gorilla chomp into someone's skull, is enough to make half of the 100 pass out.

Tim (8:01)

That's true.

Luke (8:01)

So that alone means that your army of. Of 100 men is now 50.

Chris (8:07)

And then the gorilla goes around and curb stomps all the sleeping ones.

Luke (8:12)

Like a gori can. Can pick up a coconut. You know, the coconut as it comes from the tree with the. The sheath on it, and they can just bite and peel and they don't have to be fast. They don't have to be right. They'll just walk around and just slowly pick up one.

Chris (8:29)

They're insanely durable. Right. Like, you have no tool to puncture them.

Rich (8:32)

Yeah, that's true.

Luke (8:34)

No, now I've seen the guys say, oh, you just poke them in the eyes. They got a soft spot. Or go for the genitals.

Tim (8:42)

All right.

Luke (8:45)

You know how deep the eye is. Like, you really got to get all up in that gorilla's business.

Chris (8:51)

What's going to happen to a gorilla you just kicked in the nuts?

Rich (8:55)

Yeah, Yeah.

Luke (8:56)

I think the gorilla could take a nap. As ten guys who are still conscious try to beat it. It will eventually wake up and then finish him off. I. I could go winning.

Rich (9:09)

So. So, Zach. So I'm convinced. I'm convinced.

Tim (9:13)

But it's only one argument. It's. It's only one argument that's flipped me, though. All the other stuff maybe, but it's the fact that you can't use all 100 at the same time if somehow you physically could. I think the 100 men win, but.

Rich (9:24)

The physics of it is f. It is funny, though, like, to see these things because there's all of these debates, right. Like, I think I saw a poll where it was like 80% of men think they could like, land a plane if they had to, like a 747.

Chris (9:36)

There's like 50% that think they could. They can beat Seren Williams. Not in a million years.

Rich (9:41)

No, no, no. It's more. I think it's more than 50%.

Chris (9:43)

It's like a million years. You beat Serena Williams, she could beat some pro players.

Tim (9:49)

I don't understand.

Rich (9:50)

The only, the only people beating Serena Williams are like the men in the top 100.

Tim (9:55)

Right. Like Roger Federer and.

Rich (9:57)

Right. There's actually a video. It's a bit of a parody, but there's a video of these guys actually trying to return a serve from c. From Serena. And it is. It is hilarious because they are not even close. It's. It's like the. It's like these people who are like, well, I could hit one major league fastball. No, you couldn't.

Tim (10:16)

No way.

Chris (10:17)

You could swing all day and never hit one.

Zach (10:19)

Yeah.

Rich (10:20)

Pedro Martinez with like three. Three, like a fastball, a change up at a curveball that would break your knees, like. And also he could throw straight at your head. Like. No, I'm sorry.

Luke (10:29)

Even if you made contact with the baseball, like, your hands would be done.

Tim (10:33)

You're done.

Rich (10:34)

Oh, yeah.

Luke (10:34)

You're not used to that.

Rich (10:35)

I played first. I played varsity baseball in high school. I couldn't foul off anything, let alone some like, who's been like, you know, reliving their glory days from 40 years before. Who thinks they're gonna get a bat and go back out there and like, auto.

Zach (10:48)

Anyway, there's a reason Shohei Ohtani got a 700 million dollar contract. I think it is, for 15 years. I'm like, it's that unusual, guys. Like, let's be real about this.

Tim (10:58)

Absolutely.

Rich (10:59)

Well, just so for our audience who we haven't scared away, this is the Find out podcast. The first 11 minutes.

Chris (11:06)

We do talk about politics sometimes. What?

Rich (11:09)

You know, I've heard all these people talk about this new political show and then it's like 12 minutes of like me screwing up at the beginning and then us Talking about whether 100 men could beat and beat an ape or not. So talking about a 400 pound gorilla. Let's move to Donald Trump and some.

Tim (11:24)

Of this nice transition. I like that.

Zach (11:27)

See, killing a gorilla with 100 men is bad, but calling Trump a gorilla is. That's a bridge too far. I can't get behind that kind of attack.

Rich (11:37)

I. I am so.

Chris (11:38)

And Trump, be one of the men that has to fight the gorilla.

Zach (11:41)

I'm good with that 100 trumps versus one gorilla.

Rich (11:45)

So this week, oh, God, this is either going to be our best episode or we've just lost everybody. So moving on to what we normally talk about, there was some bad economic news this week that in the first quarter of this year, the economy shrunk by 0.3%, which is the first time that we've had negative growth in over three years. And of course, Donald Trump went out and said that it was 100% Joe Biden's fault, even though in March when there was, when the stock market was doing well, he took credit for that. So, you know, to see, like a.

Zach (12:21)

Common pattern with, with how he sees the world, you know, it's only taken 10 years, but it does feel like he, he, he's prone to cherry picking. I feel like you guys a little.

Chris (12:34)

Bit, they're just picking up on that now.

Tim (12:36)

He might like to do that. I don't know. You know, what's interesting is I made a video about this yesterday because of TikTok's algorithm. Almost nobody saw, but this is like the first time Trump has actually implemented his own economic policy because he just stole Obama's policies in his first term and just took credit for all his benefit. And really, given the tariffs that he did in the first term, they were sort of like, you know, targeted, not so bad sometimes on China. This is like the first time where he's like, actually trying and it's a disaster. And I think people don't know that, like, this is truly his first shot at, like, let me prove my stuff works. Like, whoops, it doesn't It, It's a.

Rich (13:10)

It'S a good point because you're right. And people keep forgetting. They're like, oh, Trump before co. It was great. I'm like, yeah, because he didn't do anything, did nothing. And the tax cuts, A lot of golf. Golfed A lot of golf. A lot of.

Chris (13:20)

But he's golling more this time.

Zach (13:21)

Tax cuts, golf, Three Supreme Court justices. That's, that's his entire first term legacy.

Tim (13:27)

It's his autobiography title.

Rich (13:29)

Yeah. And, and those tax cuts in 2017 didn't do anything to stimulate the economy. So this time he has, what, fired 80,000 federal employees? He has put tariffs in place on, taking them off, then put them back on. It's almost like the markets don't like uncertainty and people getting laid off.

Zach (13:48)

Wild.

Chris (13:49)

That's crazy.

Zach (13:51)

I love it. There's nothing like chaos that makes me want to go out and just drop a hundred thousand dollars on like a, you know, 10 year investment.

Chris (13:59)

There's tariffs that are on pause that are coming back soon. Right?

Tim (14:02)

Yeah, yeah, that's what I thought.

Zach (14:04)

All of the Liberation Day stuff, except for China, I think was.

Chris (14:07)

Yeah, because he tweeted this morning that he said that there was going to be another little hiccup and then the tariffs were going to come back on and it was going to be great again.

Tim (14:14)

I just, I don't, I don't get it. I don't, I truly don't understand the logic. Like, I, I don't.

Chris (14:19)

There is none.

Tim (14:20)

That's, that's the hardest part for me is like the thing that's interesting too is like, okay, say he goes back on all this stuff. He, what does he do to dig out of this hole? Like, I, I, I'm, if I'm a Trump advisor right now, I am terrified that like no way out. Like he's dug himself in a hole and the only strategy to get out is to accept that you're wrong about this and he'll never do that. So, like, what is he going to do? He's going to dig in and shit's just going to implode.

Luke (14:42)

Trump is the kid who ate the marshmallow every time and never learned. Like, there is no strategic thinking. There is no future planning. It is all about whatever gains you can get tomorrow and then pushing your losses onto everybody else. That has always been who he is. That is what made him a quote, successful businessman was hiring contractors and then not paying them. Like that. That was his entire business model is. Yeah, right. Cheating. And we're finding out now that when we don't have the so called adults in the room, in his cabinet or advisors, Trump unleashed is disastrous not just for the United States economy, but for our standing on the world global stage.

Rich (15:27)

Well, in the first term, Covid kind of hidden some of his economic disastrous policies that he had because he could explain it away. Right. Oh, it was covet. There was nothing I could do about it. But in this term where he came in and basically like went at like warp speed to break things and change things, you know, there's a benefit short term in showing change and then I'm doing things. But the problem with that then is that you are saddled with the consequences of those actions. Which he didn't have in his first term.

Tim (15:56)

Yes.

Rich (15:56)

So I don't know how he digs his way out of this either.

Chris (15:59)

I eventually like saying the word Biden doesn't work anymore. Right. Like, like he just can't. What is it he said it an average of six times a day. Publicly, that's insane work. But like eventually even his most die hard supporters are going to be like, yo, it's been two years. Yeah, like it can't possibly still be Biden's fault.

Tim (16:19)

Right. You know, some will think that it.

Zach (16:21)

Is, but the really important thing. So we got right into the, into GDP and the ups and downs and the whys. But I've heard from some of our commenters that like we get into the weeds too quickly. So let's, let's talk about gdp, because GDP is gross domestic product, which is all of the economic output of your country. Like this is the most high level metric. It's not, don't look at the stock market. The stock market is not the economy. The GDP is really the economy. And we were cruising along, I just pulled it, pulled it up just to make sure. We were cruising along at 2 to 3% GDP growth every quarter for the last year and a half under Biden. And it was the same situation when Obama handed it to Trump. We're talking about the trend line. And when you saw that handoff between Obama to Trump in the first term, every trend line was mostly uninterrupted. So we're talking about gdp. GDP per capita, imports and exports, trade deficit, government spending, unemployment rate, every trend line. He basically just didn't screw up because really he didn't know how to do anything. He didn't know how to pass legislation. If you remember, he was surprised he won. And I think Hillary Clinton was surprised he won. We were. His own voters were surprised. And so he got into office. He surrounded, surrounded himself with insiders who said basically don't it up. And he hated those people because he wanted to do his own thing. And it took him an entire term. And then Covid hit and so he didn't really ever get to do the things he wanted to do. But if you look at what he did with COVID it was like, well, we should have known this was going to happen, you guys. Like, he completely shat the bed with everything. Covid, all things Covid.

Chris (18:03)

I'd wager that's not the first time he shat the bed.

Zach (18:05)

He shits the bed on a regular. It's just the KFC stains all over his hotel sheets. So fast forward this time. Biden takes two years to dig out of that shit. He gets the trend lines all reset. We're back to 4% unemployment, GDP growth right where you want it because you don't want 10% GDP growth. That's how you get the Chinese shit where you're building whole cities and then of factories and of residences and then nobody lives there. And then something goes sideways and you go, oh, shit. Like we are in way too deep. So you really want to aim for that 2 to 3% sweet spot. That's where you just get wage gains. It's stability, it's, it's growth. And he took that, it's not a 0.3% drop because he took, he took it from 2 to 3% growth to 0.3% drop. And he, he did that between January 20th and March 31st. So we're talking about not even a full quarter and nothing to do with Liberation Day, with the tariffs, with the trade war with China, with all of the layoffs that are, that are starting to cascade out. We see Amazon making cuts. UPS just cut 20,000 working class jobs. This, this all happened in April, which is Q2. And, and so whatever happens at the end of this 90 day thing, like this is, this is all 100% his doing. I think to Zach's point, these are all things that he is, he has broken all of those trend lines as proactively and aggressively as possible. And there is no way, like when you look at all the charts and graphs now, there will be no way for a sane person to be able to see those and say, hmm, what changed right here when everything went fucking sideways? And it was like between November and.

Tim (19:52)

March 31, if you, and here's the interesting thing too, if you go back, because I've seen a lot of Republicans talking about, oh, Biden had a quarter where it went down 1%. The cause was Russia invading Ukraine. Like, that was the quarter where Russia. So there's like a clear, like, oh, the world economy kind of had a problem and supply chain was still a serious problem with COVID Trump is the only reason this happened. He said, oh, it's not the tariffs. It's literally the only thing that it is. It's the only thing.

Chris (20:19)

Yeah, it's not the Liberation Day tariffs. It's the first tariffs.

Rich (20:22)

Right. Why else would UPS cut 20, 30,000 workers? Because there's not as many packages to deliver because there's not as much stuff coming from China because of the tariffs. It's a very clear one thing happened and that resulted in something else.

Chris (20:33)

Can we sidebar and talk about Amazon going back the tariff cost thing?

Rich (20:41)

So, so let's, let's break this down for folks if they didn't see it. So it came out the other day, I think there's some debate about how real this policy was or not that Amazon was going to put essentially the tariff charge on your bill. Like you see the subtotal and your tax and your, potentially your delivery and then a tariff tax. I think they were calling it an overseas surcharge or I don't know what it was. Yeah, something like that. And the Trump White House exploded and then Trump called Jeff Bezos and then they were like, we were never going to do it. I think it's a great idea.

Tim (21:13)

I do, too.

Chris (21:13)

And I don't think it ever had anything to do with standing up to Trump though, either. It was just. No, it's going to. Yeah, because people are too dumb to realize. Yeah, it's offloading blame. Passing the buck, literally.

Tim (21:25)

Exactly. There's no question about it.

Chris (21:27)

Has that right now. And I've seen so many people on the Internet losing their mind. Well, they're, they're older. They'll order something that's like 14 bucks and then there's just like $30 in fees. It's like, well, not worth it to buy from them anymore now, is it?

Rich (21:41)

I, I actually had. Because I grew up in Maine, so, like, Maine's a pretty 50, 50 states. A little leans, a little blue. I saw folks on Facebook complaining about Teemu and Shine prices going up. And, and these are people who voted for Donald Trump and of course, commented. I was like, well, you know, why?

Chris (21:59)

Well, if it isn't the consequences of our own actions.

Tim (22:01)

Right, right. That's the thing. It's like the hardest part of this, and I think it's what Democrats struggled with during the election was, this is complicated. Like, all this shit is complicated and people don't get it. Like, people just go, shit is more expensive. I don't like it. It's Joe Biden's fault. And I understand that parallel for people who don't pay attention, like, sure, you think the president controls prices and their policies are going to affect how much it costs. But then when you try to explain it, like, shut up, I don't care. It's expensive. And then they just go and vote against it. And it's like, maybe, maybe, maybe I'm being too optimistic, but maybe this situation will end up teaching people, like, maybe you got to pay a little closer attention to the policies and like, how they might work. And if you don't want this to happen again because Trump is 0% chance he's going to deliver on lower prices. It's just like that optimism, like a depression. Like, I mean, that's the only thing. It's like, I've seen this theory a billion times. I saw it a bunch a couple of weeks ago where people are going like, no, Trump is purposefully crashing the economy so shit will cost less. And he can say that, you know, hey, look at the prices I brought down. It's like, that's the dumbest argument I've ever heard.

Rich (22:58)

Yeah. Chestnut Checkers, guys, right?

Tim (23:00)

It's like, don't. What about the collateral damage of a depression?

Chris (23:04)

94% in an interview.

Tim (23:05)

Yeah, that would make it 30. I saw that. It would make them 38 cents for a dozen.

Chris (23:09)

If you find me a packet, a dozen eggs of six, that's 34 cents, I will fly to that spot. I eat a dozen eggs every two days.

Luke (23:17)

I spend a lot of time trying to think of, like, a metaphor to, to, to just to try to help people across the aisle understand, like, what happens with the economy when a Democrat or a Republican is, is in. Or the party, I should say, because Congress is obviously, you know, passing the budgets. Right. And I, I keep trying to think of, like, you know, is it like, is it like, working out? Like, working out. It. It sucks. You've. You've got to do it all the time in order to learn to like it and to be healthy. And when Trump comes in, like, he'll take the economic body of America that has been, you know, making slow gains 2, 3%, and, you know, you know, pushing themselves, growing. And then he'll be like, now we're just, we're gonna. No sleep, we're just gonna eat chicken nuggets and we're gonna do steroids, and everything is going to be awesome. And then.

Zach (24:16)

And it's like this one weird trick.

Luke (24:21)

Just straight protein. Yeah, sure. And those steroids.

Zach (24:23)

Yeah.

Luke (24:23)

You're gonna get some massive gains, and then you're gonna pop like a balloon.

Rich (24:27)

Because you can't keep that up.

Luke (24:29)

Like, I, I don't know how to. I don't do a lot of talking across the aisle. Right. I'm, I'm too angry for that. But I still think about this, like, how what metaphor can help people understand why, you know, Donald Trump and the broader Republican Party economic platform is like, doing steroids. Like, it can give you a temporary boost, but your body is going to be ruined because of it.

Tim (24:56)

I don't think, like, here's. I've been arguing this forever is. There is no metaphor that's going to get them to understand this stuff. They have to experience the negative effect of it. Like that. That's the only time they'll actually start to listen. Up until that point, the we can talk to her blue in the face. Because I think that actually is a great metaphor right there. Because they can relate to. Makes perfect sense and it's accurate. But they're still going to hear it going, yeah, but Trump's going to do it, right? It's like, until he doesn't and their bank account gets fucked, it's not going to change.

Zach (25:21)

As a, as a dad, I think a lot about natural consequences. And I have one kid who learns from you and learns from adults and learns from teachers, and I have another kid who has to experience everything firsthand. And Donald Trump is the person who has to experience it firsthand. I think I compared it in a video to. He's the kid who touches his, touches a hot burner and burns his hand. And so as a response, he climbs into the stove and like directly in and sets it to 550 and waits to see what happens. I think the challenge is that when you have somebody who is a. I mean, I never watched the Apprentice, but he was a reality TV show host that a lot of people got used to seeing and for whatever reason fell in love with his personality or the way he fired people, the way he did the things that he did, and they became very familiar with him. They saw him as a success. He's worth a lot of money. He inherited most of that money, and if he didn't touch it and didn't it up, he would have more money. Let's be clear about that. But he still, because being wealthy is relatively easy to maintain, he still has a ton of money. And they look at him and they think maybe the infomercial is right on this one. Maybe if I do take the, if I, if I do the one weird trick, maybe if I, if I do the thing that the 2am TV show is telling me to do, maybe I actually can be healthier and lose 150 pounds and everybody will like me. And, and they're like, I need to find out. Like, I need to feel this consequence firsthand. And so, but, but natural consequences teach us they're the best teacher. And so we all got to go through it with them. But, but it's, it's going to work because we're watching everybody burn the fuck out of their hands right now.

Rich (27:04)

Well, and there's been some polling that's come out recently that looked at where like the, where like opinion polls were in 2018 or 2017 before the 2018 wipeout that he experienced. And they are in about the same spot where they lost, I think 40, 45 seats in 2018. They're there now like after it's 103 days or something like that. And the tariff implications haven't even hit yet, which is anticipated over the next couple of. He is in real trouble and I just, I don't see the wiggle room for him. But a bigger question is how do the Democrats, which who don't have a great opinion right now either, if you look at opinion polls, horrible, horrible numbers.

Tim (27:52)

It's worse than Trump. That's the thing that's bad.

Chris (27:54)

21%.

Rich (27:55)

Oh, it's, yeah, it's somewhere 30 or something like that. He's 38 or something like that.

Tim (28:00)

I just did a video on that where the numbers were, it wasn't based on approval. It was based on how in touch they are with the American people. And Trump was 39% in touch and Democrats were 30. So they were losing to Trump by 9%.

Rich (28:12)

So, so look like, and, and we've talked about this before that our, our positions and our policies are popular and there were, there were Democratic policies that passed in places like Missouri where Donald Trump won by 25, 30 points and Josh Howley obliterated. Lucas Co was a pretty good Senate candidate. What are, how are we, how do we fix this? Because like our policies are, are clearly popular. People do. President Trump is doing and yet we have a lower approval rating. What do we need to do here? I mean, I have some thoughts, but I want to hear what you guys think first.

Tim (28:47)

I think it's a mixed bag, right? I think like, I think it's a, it depends on the timing. Right now I'm one of the people that a lot of the left hates who I go, it's a waited out moment. You don't really do anything right now. It's not to say we never have a policy, but like right now, our policy doesn't matter. We have no functional power. We have no means to implement it. We have no means to sell it. We're kind of just sitting there and watching Trump screwed up, up. And frankly that's the best move right now because Trump needs to dig himself into the deepest hole possible. And then when people start going to, looking for an answer, that's when we need to show up with the answer. So to me, it's like right now we should be focused as a party on how will we message what our counterbalance policy is in the future. But shut up about it right now. Just let him Fuck himself. That's sort of my strategy at this moment.

Rich (29:29)

So I think there's a lot of truth to that. And I know this is the James Carville approach, which he has been talking about incessantly. I, I think the, One of the things that I think Democrats have done a bad job with is empathizing with people who, who believe things are broken. And I think we did a bad job with inflation. We were like, it's just going down. Don't worry about it. And I, People were like, inflation is dropping from, like, I think it was a high of 8% to 4 to 3, to 2. But, like, every month that means prices are higher because 3, 3% on top of 8% is 11. It's not negative 5. Right. And I think we did a bad job messaging that. I think the White House did a bad job of messaging that. And I also think the, the, the Democrats need to also say that there are parts of the government that are broken. Like, I worked in the federal government for five years. There is broken in the federal government. There's a lot of good stuff, but there's broken stuff. And I think we tend to just be like, these people are crazy. We're normal.

Luke (30:27)

Normal.

Rich (30:28)

Let's just do normal instead of being like, we want to fix these things, too. And I think there's a real opportunity here now with, with what Trump's doing is like, let's make government work for everybody, Dow, and let's like, actually rebuild. And here's the plan. Instead of just being like, let's go back to the way it was, because a lot of people didn't like the way it was.

Tim (30:47)

They don't want that. Yeah, that's a terrible strategy if that's.

Luke (30:50)

I think there's something that's completely unacknowledged with, with Democrats and the mindset of, of, of saying things like, oh, you know, don't worry, inflation is going down. I think what is actually behind that is an emotional thing. Like, the accusation is that we're too heady and we're too in the numbers and we're, we're too focused on the details. But I think Democrats in positions of, of power are, are all up in their feelings a lot more than anyone gives them credit to. Like, I, as a, as an advocate, as a former lobbyist, I have a very good idea as to why things work the way they do in the federal government. And I find myself, personally, I've never been in government, right. I've never been a policymaker, but I am a person Writing policy and giving it to policymakers. And I understand how hard it is, how much work it takes to get good policy in that. I find myself getting frustrated and going back to the shorthand of. Of being like, I don't have the fucking time to explain this to you. Like, I'm. I'm mad because I'm like, people just think that America works when you just let your hands off it and just let it. That's the only reason America works is because there are a load of people who are making it work. And, like, as one of those people involved in shaping policy, I get pissed when people look at me and they're like, oh, you're. You're thinking about this too much. It's like, no, I'm working my ass off, and all you care about is, you know, what's on television. And that makes me pissed.

Chris (32:32)

People saying that dumbass. Well, it's not that deep. Is like the death of critical thought. Every time somebody says that, I want to drop. Kick him into the sun. It is that deep. It is that fucking deep.

Rich (32:43)

Well, guys, this is a country that a lot of people decided that Donald Trump would be a good president because they saw him pretending to be a businessman on TV in front of 15 to 20 million people.

Chris (32:54)

They also like when he fake worked at a McDonald's.

Tim (32:57)

That's true. They love that. I could not believe that played well. They liked a garbage truck.

Chris (33:01)

Yeah.

Zach (33:01)

Yeah.

Chris (33:01)

He had to, like, take 30 minutes to get into a garbage truck.

Tim (33:05)

Yeah.

Rich (33:05)

He almost fell down.

Tim (33:06)

Yeah, I wish you did.

Chris (33:08)

The world got lucky enough.

Zach (33:10)

I want to see a lot of things from Democrats, but that's because I'm a Democrat and I understand that it's better to take a political loss to get a win for the country or mitigate damage. I mean, that's the Chuck Schumer approach to the shutdown battle. Minimize damage at all costs. Which I didn't agree with his approach, but. But that is my sort of default position, which is how do we make this less shitty for everybody all the time? What I think we have here, though, is we have an accountability job here, not a solution job. And to your point, Zach, there's nothing we can really do. I mean, we even got a couple of senators to vote to take away tariff powers from Trump. I think two Republican senators voted with all the Democrats. It wasn't enough, and he would veto that bill. But the. The fact that we are trying to do anything good that almost everybody agrees with besides Donald Trump, and we can't do that. I Mean, that's just proof that 75 million Americans did this to the country. And I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna try to mitigate that for them, to protect them from themselves. I, I, if they're gonna elect a reality TV show president, they have to understand what happens when you elect a reality TV show president. And that means that we are all going to have to collectively suffer us on this podcast less than others, which is a, you know, if you're middle class, if you're white, if you're straight, it's a lot less damage. But as far as economically, there's damage across the country. And I'm not going to allow it to become a conversation of what have Democrats done to try to save the middle class? While Trump, who you guys fucking selected, you guys put his name, you checked his name, you put him in the White House and then you said, yes, I'm going to vote for senators and representatives who are going to confirm every single thing that he does, confirm everybody he nominates, even if they're sex trafficking pedophiles, maybe like with Matt Gaetz, and they were just ready to sign off on him being the top cop in the nation. I mean, these are catastrophic fucking mistakes, you guys. And, and we have to understand that when you make horrific mistakes, there are really ugly consequences. And we're going to feel that. And more importantly, there's nothing Democrats can do to stop this that we're not doing right now. And so there's just going to be a certain amount of damage. And so our job is to make sure everybody understands this is what happens when you do what you did. And government is messy, government is inefficient. There's a lot of people who are maybe not doing great work work. And yet we were getting 2 to 3% GDP growth, unemployment was low. Like, we were making an imperfect system work to the best of its ability or maybe to the better of its ability than, than anything Donald Trump is doing. And that is a choice. It's, it's not the lesser of two evils. It's the best of a lot of bad options.

Luke (36:12)

What, what do you guys think of the, like this past weekend as we're recording this, Cory Booker and I don't know who else sat out on the hills of Jefferson. Yeah. And they, they sat on the, on the steps of, of the Capitol and just like live streamed for, I hated it. Like, like, Rich, is, is that something that you think is helpful right now? Like, if we can't do anything, we just message it I, I don't like.

Zach (36:41)

Personally, I don't like being like emotionally pandered to like, I don't need my feelings validated. I'm already angry. And so the things where it's like, like, you know, they're sitting in for a moral of, a moment of moral urgency. They're doing kind of like Chris Van Holland did with, with El Salvador. He, he took one of a lot of bad choices and he, and he made the best of that bad choice with his. It actually worked out, I think, fairly well. It was Cory Booker who had, who reset the record for the filibuster. Right. And right. Took it away from a racist.

Tim (37:16)

So that's true.

Zach (37:17)

Sometimes those things like what are you going to do? I'm going to get up and I'm going to talk until everybo. He's so exhausted they don't want to vote on a bill. Like maybe that's the best option he had. So I'm not going to tell him not to do things because nothing sounds good.

Rich (37:30)

So I, yes, I think I, I didn't particularly like it because I was paying attention and I'm not sure what I was supposed to take out of that. What I would prefer is that every Democratic member of Congress go to their district and sit on their local courthouse or city hall and have this conversation rather than do it in the district. Which means you're probably talking to Hill staffers or people who live in the District that don't even have representation in Congress other than a non voting delegate. So I don't like it from. I would prefer that the minority leader go on a bunch of podcasts like the Find out podcast. Talk to us. No, but I'm serious. Like I, I mean it would be cool and he, there is an open invite for him if he'd like to join. But you're going to reach a better group of people because if you go to the Hill and you sit on the steps, you're going to get coverage on CNN, you're going to get coverage on MSNBC and 20,000 people will have seen it because those cable shows are not getting any viewership anymore. And it's mostly people who live in D.C. in New York City. That is a fact. We all have had TikTok videos over the last six months that have had larger audiences than cable news. Have an entire day day. This is just the. So like I hadn't thought about that before. It's true. All I, well, I use it all the time when I'm trying to convince these people to Come on our shows. But, you know, like, but it's. But I think that D.C. polit politicians are still addicted to cable news. And that stunt, which it was. And I'm fine with stunts, by the way, but the stunt was to get on CNN and msnbc. You don't need to convince those people. They know. They know that even the CNN ones, like, even though they've got. They've got bozos like Scott Jennings on. From the Republican side on. But no Republicans are watching. There's no point. Go into the districts and have those conversations.

Tim (39:17)

I think there's a strategy they're using. Like, again, I hear this. I think this spiders through the Democratic Party across the board, but I think they're trying to respond to the faction and Democrats are saying, hey, do something. I'm angry. I need to see you doing something. And it's like, I. I'm the kind of person where I go as Democrats, as an institution to look at those people and go, shut up. I don't care. I'm not going to. I'm not going to like, make a. Just of a hollow, you know, gesture for you just so I can look like an asshole to the other people who don't want me to be doing this. Like, to Rich's point, like, this is not something where, like, I need to feel like you're validating my vote and going out and doing something for me. Let's live in reality. Reality is we have no say in what goes on right now. None. The only things we can do are, like, very fringe little blocks. Like, it's mostly courts that can stop him at this point. Like, from the legislative perspective and the executive perspective, we're just not in the game. And, like, I know that sucks. It's a terrible reality, but it is reality. And, like, putting pressure on Democrats to act like it's not. And, like, pretend like they're putting together some grand scheme to do something. It's disingenuous and it puts Democrats in a bad position. We need to understand what's going on.

Chris (40:24)

I've been saying that since the rip, since, like, he was first. Well, even before he was first inaugurated, was there was all those fucking people that were like, oh, here's all these conspiracy theories how we're gonna stop him from getting inaugurated. Doesn't do anything. It doesn't do anything. You give people false hope and that's not effective.

Tim (40:40)

Yep, we got to play the reality. Hate that.

Rich (40:42)

Well, and I think that there was the whole thing about a lot of people were suggesting that he did not the election, which he absolutely did. And I, I understand the anger and confusion because it looked like that we were ahead and then it ended up not being, but like it was just incredibly destructive. And I would rather have, like I said, the members go in and talk about how, oh, they're going to, they're going to try to pass a tax bill where they're going to cut Medicaid by at least $500 billion, if not a trillion dollars. And the estimates are 15 to 25 million Americans are going to lose health care the second that that tax cut.

Chris (41:15)

Passes for the people that aren't in the know. When is that going to happen?

Rich (41:19)

Right. And the answer to that is over the next six weeks. It might actually even be in May. And I had a conversation earlier today with someone from an organization called Families Over Billionaires and they were like, this is what they're trying to do. They are going to pass a tax cut for millionaires and billionaires and they're going to kick tens of millions of people off their health care. And as we've talked about before, that's not a straight savings things, it just makes it less efficient. They end up going to the emergency room which is incredibly inefficient and then they get these bills of 50, $100,000, which means they don't buy a car, they don't buy this like it is. And it's all just to give rich people more money. And the reason that it doesn't stimulate the economy is because the rich people don't need it and they just put it in their pocket.

Chris (42:04)

Rich people, greedy? No way. I don't know.

Rich (42:08)

But I think we're going to be talking about this a lot over the next month because this is, this is the big thing that they want to do do. And this is one I do think that we can, we can mount a pressure campaign because in the House, it's actually harder in the House because I think they've got four, a four or five seat majority and as we talked about earlier with those polling numbers that suggests that all F4 or 5 of those on the edge, they're gone. If they vote for this tax cut, they're gone. And 30 or 40 others are gone. And guess what, what members of Congress hate the most? Losing, losing their seat and losing their power. So we have a real opportunity, I think over the next month to galvanize and activate people in, especially in those 40 districts or so and saying why are you cutting my Medicare? Which means me as a probably either poor or disabled or elderly person. I am not going to get health care so that Elon Musk can get billions in tax cuts. I want to see people like, we've already seen great town halls. I want to see more of this and I want to see the members of Congress, Congress and the leaders going into these places and saying, this is what they're going to do if you let this member pass this bill.

Zach (43:14)

This is why I, I think looking at, at what Trump is doing, like, we have an opportunity right now to view him. Like, the way I see him is like, he's like a toddler with scissors running into traffic. Like, what do you have to do? Fucking say anything to just get him to just to, like, take the loss. Like, just, here's candy. Here's unlimited amounts of candy. Just give me the scissors. Get the fuck away from traffic. Tell him he's winning. I don't care. I don't care if he, if, if we can get him to soft pivot like he just did. Like, Michael Mike Waltz is out. Elon Musk and Doge are, are dead. They are 95% dead. Elon Musk's own brother, who's the chair of the board of Tesla, if I'm not mistaken, allowed them to start a search, or at least threatened to start a search for a new CEO of Tesla to get him out. And whether that, whether that just goes away on its own, they're doing what I'm saying, which is say whatever you have to do and then don't rub their nose in it. Don't be like, see, you dumb piece of shit, you failed. That just makes them want to double down. You have to view this as a reckless toddler. You say, I'm so proud of you for making the right decision. You're such a big boy for rolling back these tariffs. Your mom is so proud of you as well. And now let's go get some ice cream. And then you put them in a jail cell. Like, that's where. Lock the fucking bedroom door from the outside and hide all the scissors. You deal with the damage later, but right now we just need to get him to do less shitty shit and then obviously own that. Like, people know when they. He hates taking losses. So when people see Elon Musk, like, weirdly piecing out of his exit interview in the Oval Office this week, and when they see Michael Walls get. We know everybody knows exactly what just happened there, and he'll say whatever, like, he did a great job and blah, blah, blah, fly, but everybody knows. So just let that be true and you don't have to double, triple down on it. Make a big fight out of it where he'll then dig his heels and just, just move on. And then we're into reelection season and all of a sudden he's saying, look at the booming gdp. If that means we all get to keep our jobs and everybody's better off it he's done and he's done in two years and then he's really done in four years. Let's just get there.

Rich (45:33)

Well, over the, over the next month, you're going to hear a lot, lot of, A lot from us talking about this. And there going to be a lot of things we're going to ask you to do, too. So I want to make sure everybody is following us on our substack, which is findout podcast substack.com we are going to be talking about this. We're going to give you resources, show you where to go. I think we're going to. We're starting to talk about having some guests, so we may have some folks on talking about how damaging and dangerous this is going to be. But stay with us. Like we've always said, we want to be about impact, not just talking to you guys. So do that. And with that, we are ready to talk about what everybody has been waiting for. How tall is each member of the Find out podcast? Who wants to, who wants to do this? Because I. There were some funny responses.

Tim (46:20)

I think Rich had some, some numbers to run us through.

Rich (46:22)

Right.

Zach (46:23)

I did pull the numbers. I'll share the numbers. And, and then we can talk about. We can all share how, how tall we are individually, because it's, it's pret. Sting, honestly. So we have. I don't know if people understand how biology works, but the average man in America is 5 foot 9. It's not. He's not 6 foot 7. Absolutely outlandish. I think.

Chris (46:49)

Also, also, I just like to put this out there right now. I am not 3 foot 8. Do you envision me being Gollum?

Zach (46:58)

What in the hell? It explains why you're so angry, Luke.

Chris (47:01)

Oh, yeah. I'm a fucking angry little elf.

Zach (47:03)

You've got a sword. I mean, like, you're, you're halfway to.

Chris (47:06)

I'm halfway to being a hobbit.

Tim (47:07)

Exactly.

Zach (47:08)

No, you're, you're more of the dwarf. You're, you're. It's Gimli being a dwarf.

Chris (47:12)

Yeah, Gimli.

Zach (47:13)

You need that. You need the ax on your wall. So all of the guesses were flatteringly High for almost everybody. Very true. The average, I pulled everybody from substack comments. I got a dozen entries for all of us. The average guess guess for me was 6 foot. For Chris, it was about 5, 10. I have decimals, so I have to try to do the fractions and the. It's very difficult for me. I'm a Democrat, so my brain doesn't work.

Chris (47:42)

Freedom units.

Zach (47:44)

Tim. Tim came in at the shortest at I 5.85ft. So what is that, like 59. Zach a pinch taller. Taller at about 5, 9 and a half. And then Luke at about 5 10. So 5, 10.

Tim (48:01)

So you're the tallest one. So congratulations.

Zach (48:03)

I'm allegedly the tallest person. It was a couple of people guessed 6, 3, and I was like showing my wife. I'm like, see, honey, this is how tall people see me. So in reality, I'm 5 10, which is slightly above average, which is how I consider myself, broadly speaking.

Chris (48:19)

I am like 5, 9 and a half. 5, 10, 10.

Zach (48:22)

You haven't finished growing yet. So you're going to be 5, 10, 5 11. I'm sure here.

Chris (48:26)

I think I'm done growing. I've been the same height for the last like four years, Chris.

Luke (48:31)

So people thought that I was a lot taller than I am. I am the shortest one. I think on the podcast at 5.

Tim (48:39)

8, we're tied because I say I'm 5 8. I'm actually like 5, 7 and 3 quarters. So, you know, I may actually have the title here.

Rich (48:47)

I think some people have raised their heights since we initially talked about this because I thought it was pretty clear that I am the tallest person in this group at a whopping 510 to tie.

Zach (49:01)

I thought you were 5:11.

Chris (49:02)

No, I also thought you were 5:11.

Rich (49:05)

No, I said 5:10.

Tim (49:07)

Luke's gonna fact check this.

Chris (49:08)

I'm fact checking. One second.

Rich (49:09)

I did not say 5 11. We're a real burly group, guys, if you couldn't tell.

Tim (49:15)

Bunch of short dudes.

Luke (49:16)

If you want to support a bunch of short kings, there it is now. So this just arrived. We use fee marketing. Everything is made in the United States, printed by union folks. It is made by union artists. It's the same. If you've seen any of my shirts on any TikTok video, I am always wearing their shirts. Super, super, super comfortable, super durable. So if you want to check out the find out podcasts stream store, just check out our substack. We've got it linked there. We're going to be posting it all over social media. It supports us and our work and it supports a union that all of us are are really supportive of.

Rich (50:01)

And I'm actually wearing the hoodie. The hoodie which is incredibly comfortable as you can see here. And for our. Since we just opened it last week, we also have a 10 off discount. We're learning how to sell stuff here, guys. So if you in the we're going.

Chris (50:14)

To be real successful business his men.

Rich (50:16)

Yeah, well, giving money away. Yeah, you get 10% off if you use the code first batch. And I think by the time this is live you will be able to go to find out podcast.com to do that. I just have to point the URL and have to remember how to do it. But I think by Tuesday I will be able to figure that out. And also if you go to Substack, you can support us by becoming a paid member as well, which gives you access to all of the previous episodes. And we're going to probably be talking about some live chats and things like that. That. And I think that's enough promoting for now, right guys?

Chris (50:51)

Well, I just paid shilling.

Zach (50:53)

No, I need to double down on this because you guys all just learned how. How unusually weirdly short we are. And I read on the Internet that if you are a short beta, the best thing you can do is at least be rich. And so we need everybody to buy and subscribe to everything so that we are wealthy enough to make up for all of the inferior masculine traits that we share.

Tim (51:17)

So love that.

Luke (51:18)

Yeah, I need some platform shoes, guys.

Rich (51:20)

Him and Trump.

Luke (51:21)

I can't reach that top shelf on my bookshelf back there, so.

Rich (51:25)

Well, guys, thank you as always. This is probably the most interesting and bizarre episode that we have done. I think we decided that 100 men could not take on a silverback gorilla. That. I mean, I'm still the tallest, even though you said 5, 10. I'm the tallest, which I've never been in my entire life. So I'm going to take it. I'm going to. I'm going to own it. But thank you everybod. I think we're going to be having some fun updates here pretty soon about additional episodes and things like that. So hopefully you haven't gotten tired of us and run screaming from this episode because there is much more to come. So until then, everybody, thanks and have a wonderful day.