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The Find Out Podcast
Golden Bachelorette’s Jordan Heller on Why Men Struggle to Make Friends After Divorce
00:57:50
Jordan Heller — known from The Golden Bachelorette — joins The Find Out Podcast for a raw, honest conversation about loneliness, masculinity, and friendship - and how the guys on the show built friendships that are real and authentic.
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Find out podcast. We got a great show for you today. But before I introduce our first guest, I wanted to talk a little bit about our episode from Thursday that we. That actually it was rich Chris and I like it is today because we got a few folks that are had some flight problems and a sick kiddo. You know, we asked you if you wanted us to have Grant Platner on the show, and many of you wrote in which we really appreciate it and asked us to do that. And so I just want to let you know that we have extended actually several invitations to the Platinum campaign to come on the show. And so hopefully we will have some more information for you soon. But we wanted to make sure you knew that we had listened and that he is welcome to come on the show anytime. And also feel free to ask him over social if you would like him to join as well. But today we're doing something a little bit different. You know, we usually have guests from the political sphere, but today, because we're talking. Because we want to talk about some of the other pieces of our work, which is also like bringing men to the left, but also helping men live fulfilling lives. So we actually have Jordan Heller today, who was on the first season of the Golden Bachelorette. So, Jordan, thank you for joining us today.
- [01:30]
B
Well, what a great intro, by the way. Thank you so much. Yeah, I'm so happy to be here and love. I'd love to get a chance to talk politics at some point too, but, yeah, I'm happy to talk about my experiences and everything that associated with the show and kind of my life as a. As a. As a man in the. In my early 60s in Chicago.
- [01:47]
A
So. So for those who don't know, Jordan came in for fourth place. So was in most of the second season. Um, and. And is in Chicago, which we were joking before we were coming on here. I think Jordan referred it to as Chiraq, because obviously Republicans all say that the city of Chicago is completely burning down to the ground, even though it looks like Jordan is perfectly fine right now. So maybe that's slightly bullshit.
- [02:06]
C
Jordan's in a bunker right now.
- [02:08]
A
Actually, that's what you can't see.
- [02:10]
B
Yeah, well, it's so. It's so ridiculous because Chicago gets such a bad rap. Like it's, you know, it's so mischaracterized for years, by the way. For years. And I live right on the lake, downtown Chicago, and walk my dog on the lake, and I see people looking at their phone all the time. I, you know, I ask, where are you visiting? What do you think? They're like, wow, it's amazing. Like Chicago is incredible. And it really is like in the. Certainly like until the midwinter. Chicago is just incredible. So I totally mischaracterized.
- [02:41]
A
I lived in Chicago for four months when I was working on the Obama campaign and from August to November of 2008. And I didn't get a lot of free time to go visit, to go visit places. But like I walked home at like midnight, one o' clock every, like every night. Like it was, it was not anything like it was advertised.
- [02:59]
B
I mean Chicago is a little bit segregated. So downtown, all the way north and now even all the way west is, is fantastic. I mean it's, it's, it's coffee shops and restaurants, music and lakefront. It's just incredible. Yeah.
- [03:13]
A
Yeah. Well, we'll definitely dive into that a little bit. But I want to, I want to talk a little bit about your journey because I, I always wonder with these shows, like how the hell did they find these people? Like how, how did this happen? So I'd love to hear a little bit about your background and how you applied to be on a reality show.
- [03:30]
B
Yeah, so my background is that I grew up in Skokie. I'm the youngest of four boys, a nice little very middle class Jewish family and grew up, went to the University of Iowa. I met my wife there. She was small town, Iowa girl. Came back to Chicago, raised three girls and then we had a long marriage. We had a good long marriage and then things started going south. We don't have to get into that unless we want to. No. And I got divorced. Now it's like 10 years ago, so 2015. And then, you know, I kind of moved to the city. You know, you're in a small suburb of Chicago, you know, everyone knows you. Your kids go to, you know, you're playing sports, your kids are doing all sorts of. And when you get divorced, it was kind of a little bit of an ugly divorce, let's say. I didn't want to stick around in that pool. So I just wanted to escape. And I never lived in the city. So I moved down to Wicker park, which is one of the neighborhoods in Chicago. Kind of a cool hipster type, fun neighborhood. And one of my daughters came with me and then another one came with me, ended up not long. All three of my daughters were all living in a two bedroom apartment in Wicker Park. But it was the best of times, it was the worst of times. It was really. It was really great experience for all of us. And being. We still look back at it with great, great, you know, feelings about it. But then, so. So what happens is I have three daughters. We. They're fans of the Bachelor. They would watch the show. I would watch it with them as their dad. You know, part of that. And then in 2020, after some show, they were looking for, I guess, pre pandemic, right? At the pre pandemic, the. The end of the Bachelor, they said, hey, you know, someone over 60, you know, an adult they were trying to cast for. For the Golden. But this is back in 2020. So a couple of my daughters took some Instagram pictures, put together a paragraph, sent it in, completely forgot about it. I mean, they never even told me about it. And then last January, I got some calls from. I'm like, who's calling me? You know, I listened to the call, and it's like the Golden Bath. So I'm like, what is this nonsense? So then finally I said to my daughter, and they kept trying to. So they were texting me, we're trying to call you. We're trying to reach you. So, you know, of course, you know, nowadays, it's a scam. Everything's like a scam. I'm like, what kind of scam is this?
- [05:43]
A
Right?
- [05:43]
B
And my daughter said, no, we applied, but it was like four years ago. So I'm like, well, I'll listen, you know, so, you know, the first call, you listen, and they're like, okay, well, this is real. You know, you don't ever think you're going to get picked for something like that. So you have one interview after the next, after the next, and then they don't really even tell you you're on it until a couple weeks before. And you've got to kind of gather your life together. You can't tell anyone. You know, I. Yeah. Hundreds of texts from people saying, where are you? Why aren't you through my text? So stressful when you get your phone back. Really stressful.
- [06:18]
A
So you didn't have your phone at all for that experience?
- [06:20]
B
You don't have your phone. You know, you were cut off from life. It is. You get to the airport and there's a. You. You get like the Hollywood experience here. The guy with a little sign grabs her luggage. He's got a whole thing on. But then they take your phone, and then you're. You're stuck. And there's some things that they don't tell you about that experience. In the beginning, you're you're, you think you're getting this big, you know, lavish. You're in a hotel room, you're completely cut off, you're sequestered for days, which is maddening. You know, no one, no one, no one explained that to me. And then the first time you meet anybody is the, is the night of the opening night of the show where, you know, you go to the, out of the limo and you, and you meet her in person. So.
- [07:01]
A
Right.
- [07:03]
B
Yeah.
- [07:03]
A
No, I was just saying for those who don't know. So there's this whole, there's this whole bit at the beginning and maybe they do this in the Bachelor too. I never watched the Bachelor. I did watch the Golden Bachelor and then I watched the Gold Bachelorette. And they bring every, every contestant comes in a limo, gets out cameras on you, and you meet the, the, either the man or the woman. In this case, it was the woman, Joan, who was a, was a contestant in the first season that they brought back to be the Golden Bachelorette. So do that, do they prep you for anything when you go. Come out of that, out of the limo, or is it just sort of like throwing you to the wolves?
- [07:36]
B
No, you, you talk with your producers during that week about like a stick you're gonna do, you know, whether you. Yeah, all these people. One in our season coming. I came out on a horse. The other guy did, you know, one arm push ups. And I was like, I, I don't want to do it anyway. I was just gonna be myself. I didn't want to, I didn't want some sort of stick. But you, you don't know when during the night you're going because it's all, you know, compartmentalized. You only see the guys in your limo and they do it at night because, you know, they have to. Now they could fake it, but they. So it was late at night. We didn't know what time it was. And you're thrown off balance. So. And I told this, you know, recently, like I got a little bit in trouble for it, but I, I was in the first limo and the supposed to be and I was the first one out. And when they told me that and I was like, went into a panic. I'm like, me, I got, I didn't remember the first slimmer. You're the first one. So I was like, my heart started racing. You know, we're not used to something like that. You're, you know, you're 61 years old, never been in that sort of experience, and you're thrown to a Wall of cameras. And then they kind of make sure you put. You put in your head. There are no retakes. So it's one and done. You get one shot at this, and then you slink into the. Into the mansion afterwards. So.
- [08:53]
A
So you were the first of. You were the first one that she saw and no one else. So you had nobody to. You were. You were the guy that everyone was watching.
- [09:00]
B
But when they edited it again. I shouldn't. They edited it. They. They cut me to the middle because I really screwed it. Yeah.
- [09:10]
A
So. So what? So the. You go in and then all of a sudden. So you're there for weeks, I believe.
- [09:18]
B
Yeah.
- [09:18]
A
And, like, no phones, you know, you don't have the iPhone. Watch nothing. What are you doing with most of your time when you're there?
- [09:26]
B
Well, let me take it back a minute. And, you know, you're seeing the guys come in after you. And then, you know, it's a. It's a. It's a competitive type game. Right. You're trying to win the woman from all these guys, and you're assessing all these guys as they're walking in. You just. It's first impressions. Like, what kind of clothes are they wearing? Like, what's. Yeah. How's their attitude? So it's a very interesting. You know, I don't know if you've ever would have that situation again. You're like, each one of these guys is your competitor. But then right away, we became very friendly, like the group of guys. It became about the guys pretty quick. Right after that. We were all kind of looking out for each other. And to speak to your second point, there's a lot of downtime. So they not only take away your phone, but there's no Internet, there's no tv, there's no books, there's no music. There's nothing. Nothing there.
- [10:11]
A
Oh, my God. No music or nothing.
- [10:13]
B
Unless one of the producers allows you to listen to music. The whole idea is that they want you obsessed about the. You know, in our case, it was Joan. Talk about her. You're miked up. This camera's going. Talk about her, obsess about her. And that's. That's the idea. So that's the only way that show, the whole idea works. Because in reality, you're like, what? So you can't do anything else except, hey, you guys, just talk about it.
- [10:38]
A
Right? So. So how long were you there for?
- [10:42]
B
I was there for, like, five and a half weeks.
- [10:44]
A
So. Five and a half weeks. And then even, correct me if I'm Wrong. But, like, even after you. So you made it to fourth, you were eliminated very near the end. Do you have. You have to stay there still while that's going on?
- [10:55]
B
No, when you're. They shuffle you off right away. But okay, you're like five days beforehand before you get to the mansion. And then when you made it to the final four, you. Everybody leaves the mansion. The idea is that the first. You know that, that part, you're competitive with each other, and then at the end, it's just you, like one on one. So then you go and you're in a hotel room again by yourself with the producer, and then that's like the hometown and that's like the end of the show.
- [11:21]
A
Oh, right. You. So I forgot about this, but yes. So the top four, Joan went to each of your hometowns and did that. So she came to Chicago for. With you and that met your kids and all of that. Right.
- [11:33]
B
And Pascal was also in Chicago so that she had two.
- [11:35]
A
Oh, that's right.
- [11:36]
B
Chicagoans. Yeah.
- [11:38]
A
Right. And he, he was the guy that came in second, I believe.
- [11:40]
B
Yeah.
- [11:42]
A
Third. Third. Third. Okay, so. So you have all this down.
- [11:45]
B
Keep saying payment. Second, like, if people say, did you win? And I'm like, was winning getting married? I don't know if that's really winning. Right. So obviously, I don't know if winning is the right way.
- [11:54]
A
That's a good point. Yeah.
- [11:56]
C
I do wonder that when I see these shows where I'm like, what if, like three days in, you just like, I don't, I don't want to be with that person. Like, yeah.
- [12:07]
B
But you get. I'll just use my, you know, experience as an example that you, you're. You're still caught up in the whole idea of it. You know what I mean? There's, you know, as you go further, you're like, well, maybe she's not really for me or maybe they're not really for me. So people do bow out in some of those shoes. We, you know, we didn't have any of those, but it definitely happens.
- [12:27]
A
Right, Right. So, so how so. So you have all of this time with these guys that you are theoretically, as you said, in competition with. But as we saw on the show, you. It didn't really feel like to me, you watch some of these reality shows, right? Like the Love Islands, for example. They're scheming and there's all this stuff. Right. And they're also a young, much younger group of people. They're, you know, I think 20ish to. In the mid-30s, 30s maybe. But you guys are all in your 50s and 60s, and I don't know if anybody touched 70, but you were in that. That older group. So what was that like? I mean, originally, obviously, you're like. You said you're checking everybody out, but then, like, about like, is this competition? Is this not. How long did that go? And then how long then, you know, when did the transformation start happening where you guys were actually like, oh, we're. We're buddies.
- [13:19]
B
Yeah. I think pretty early on. Pretty early on. None of us really expected, you know, the. The. None of us really knew what to do. Most of the guys never even seen the show. Literally, they came on there completely unbeknownst, and they were, you know, kind of fumbling around, and we found our way kind of. There's a big. In the back. In the back by the pool, there's a giant couch, a big U couch, and that's where you can get cocktails. And guys would, you know, there's probably 10, 12 of us would go there. And that's where we became friends. We tell our stories. Like, you know, what are you doing here? Like, how did you get here? That's kind of what you're telling me. And, you know, maybe in the beginning, but right away, guys were. Were opening up. It was. You were telling your. You've never seen a, you know, this collective group of men who were similar situations. There wasn't really a lot of ego. Everyone was a little bit broken, for sure, either widowed, divorced, or some other situation. So it felt like a safe spot, like. And no one really expected that. It was. So that was the best part by far.
- [14:19]
A
And that's the part that. That's, you know, the genesis of, like, have. For the context for this show that I really want to talk about, because, you know, it. I think you're like. I think everybody had been married except for maybe. Maybe one.
- [14:33]
B
Yeah. But he didn't make it past the first.
- [14:36]
A
Right. So. So most. So most had trauma, right?
- [14:39]
B
Yeah.
- [14:40]
A
So. And that's not something that men particularly like to share with people, let alone on a national television show with people that you're. But how. But like, how much of. Were people very open and discussing their. Their trauma or was it very guarded? Probably a mix of things like how. How did that. That stuff go?
- [15:00]
B
Like, it started. I mean, slowly guys were talking about their lives, and as even just days in you people became more comfortable with it and keep. Realize that we've got really nothing to do except talk to each other, understand our stories. And kind of express our feelings in a way. Like I said, I. I said things to those guys that I've never even said to my closest friends in life. You know what I mean? We were all. Because they were sharing and then I was sharing and then there, you know, there was genuine, I would say breakthroughs. Definitely guys felt that way.
- [15:33]
C
Tears.
- [15:33]
B
I mean, I've never seen Guy, I'm a cry in general. I have daughters, I cry, you know, Mulan, I'll cry. But this was different. So these were guys who were talking about something that they had probably never talked about or very seldom we talked about, certainly not with a group of men. And it was like a 60 year old camp therapy, you know, something like that. It was so right early on and not listen, I'm not gonna say everyone did that. There was definitely guys who did not participate, who were there to try to win, who really were game face type stuff. But most of them were about the guys and trying to really whatever this feeling is, we want to get it out.
- [16:11]
D
I think what you're describing is something that a lot of people actually do experience but don't recognize it for what it is in that moment. The important part is you being out of your comfort zone and literally being away from home and being in a place where you're totally disoriented. Now I got that, that experience when I went to basic training.
- [16:33]
A
Right.
- [16:34]
D
Anybody who serves in the military, for the most part, if they're telling the truth, basic training is a ton of fun. You make a lot of great friends and it's part of, of building those friendships is you are in an unfamiliar environment where you are vulnerable. It's not, it's not a choice. You're not breaking down walls. The drill sergeants are breaking the walls down for you. The second is I went to school for, for the first time as an adult. I went to first, my community college when I was 26 or something. And when you're that age, the difference between 18 and 26 is pretty significant. And then when I went to Columbia University, I was around 30 ish or 28. And particularly at Columbia, like that, that place is intellectual hazing. A lot of people don't describe it.
- [17:25]
A
That way, but they'll give you like.
- [17:27]
D
A stack of these books and your first class and they'll be like, read those eight books by next week. And like I fucking tried to do that. And that was insane. And I was like a fucking mess. But that orientation thing, whether you're 18 or 30 or 60, really is the Same like being out of your element, being in a vulnerable position that you don't necessarily put yourself in or anticipate. You can make real lasting friendships in. In those moments.
- [18:00]
B
Yeah, absolutely. Without a doubt. I'd say to a man, every guy would say the friendships are, you know, and it's real. Like, we see each other.
- [18:07]
D
We.
- [18:08]
B
A bunch of us went to Las Vegas. A bunch of guys are coming next week here to Chicago. No, it was very real and definitely lasting. I mean, none of us really thought it would last, but, you know, this thing has kind of built momentum and, you know, it's been by far the best. By far the best part of that experience. Like, so certain guys, you know, we didn't know this going in, but certain guys couldn't cook, and they've never cooked anything. Certain guys never clean. Certain guys were never working out. So help him. Putting on ties, everything, you know, cutting hair. So it was really that, you know, like you said, maybe in basic training, they just think certain guys know how to do some things and certain guys know how to do other things. So we really were helping each other out. And there's just some. I don't know, it's a beauty in that. That camaraderie with. And we were all just guys who didn't expect it, which made it even more, you know, more special.
- [19:01]
C
It's funny that you mentioned that, that angle, Chris, because something I think about a lot with my university experience and why I defend going to college and. And I don't mean, like, going. I mean, if all you can afford is, like, your local school and you're trying to make yourself better, you're trying to learn things, that's amazing. If you have the privilege of being able to disappear from your past life for even a while, it gives you permission to just not be any of the things that you don't want to be anymore and try being different things or new things or maybe just trying being yourself for the first time in your life. And I feel like, I know for myself, that was in my wife too, absolutely critical in allowing myself to be comfortable with who I am. And I think, you know, when you look at, like, the right. You know, we don't have to make everything political, but that's kind of what we do here. But when you look at the right, like, they never have that opportunity, or they shame themselves or shame each other, they shame their peers if they try to make that pivot. You know, if they try to, like, oh, you're forgetting who you are. You know, you're not being true to yourself. It's like who you were when you were a shitty 18 year old, 17 year old, 16 year old is not hopefully it's not always going to be who you are. And it really does allow you to sort of like level up as a, as a human and sort of discard a lot of old baggage. Jordan, before you had this experience obviously having this arguably later in life that had you had opportunities to, you know, have that sort of experience with other men, especially just like being real with other men prior to this or is it like a brand new thing?
- [20:38]
B
Well, I mean I was in a fraternity so I went to college. I was in fraternity. I was place trainer for two different semesters for the which which I guess in its time it was the same thing. We would sit there and we would, you know, bullshit with the kids and kind of put into these physical challenges. So that was great. Yeah. And I saw, you know, my, my college days was like, like you mentioned there were some stuff that, you know, you look back at now and I'm so thankful that we did that insanity that because you're not going to get another chance to do that. But, and I have three older brothers too. But we, again, it's, there's, there's different levels and it's not like we're closed off or, you know, we're like a yappy family. But this was a different level. This was just something different because we all kind of shared, you know, kind of the, you know, the Knicks in our lives and some more than others. And some guys really, you know, broke down and were crying and got. Guys were taking them. Like Mark Anderson is one of the guys who came on the show. He was a little bit the most famous of the group because his daughter Kelsey had won the season before she, she was the one who won the Bachelor. And he had a few minutes on that season where they went to his hometown and it was, they showed what a sweet guy looking, but he was a widower, lost his wife and how sweet he was talking about his daughter. And then when we were on the show, we're walking on, we're walking on the grounds and there's a hummingbird. And there was a scene where he just broke down because his wife, his past wife, used to feed hummingbirds out of her hand on their property. And he thought this was a sign. I mean it was just let it all come out. They only showed a tiny bit of it on this. But it was so good that guys rallied around him and we rallied around a Bunch of guys like that. You know, the Widows had a much, you know, even more different experience.
- [22:31]
A
Well, there was the guy. Yeah, there was. I can't remember his name. The man. He lost his wife. Yeah, yeah. And was like the, the sweetest story, I think in the show and that you could just, you could just tell the, the pain that he did. I think she had passed away something like five or six years before and is daughter or Dodgers had him like basically put him up for this to get him out of his comfort zone. And I think he did a lot of that. But I think the, the thing that it. That struck me about this show was that it felt like a lot of people had trauma and maybe had never had an. An outlet before. And then all of a sudden, in the weirdest way possible, you guys all got thrown together because. Mostly because your kids, you know, put the application in for you. Then all of a sudden you're thrown in with guys from literally all across the. The country. And yet you found a way to communicate in a way that feels very authentic and real. Which to be perfectly honest, when you think about reality tv, real isn't usually the first thing that you, you know, like a lot. All these shows, selective edits and like they're trying to get a story more.
- [23:44]
C
But like TV than reality.
- [23:46]
A
Yeah, yeah. And, and but you guys found something real and I. That's. That feels very special to me.
- [23:52]
B
Well, you know, because people say that a lot. And what's amazing is even through the editing process, they, they did keep that. You know, obviously people were able to see that our friendships were real, the trauma was real, that we were not. There's very little acting on our. In our season when I watch it, we were really all there, just participating in whatever happened happened. You know, there's still so much. You know, they film for five days for one episode, so. And you're miked up all day every day, so you don't really know. Part of the trauma for us after the show is we don't know what they're going to show. Like I'm watching it for the first time, like you're watching it, so. And this could be frightening, but yeah, the. Without a doubt the. That came across, you know, and, and it was, it would have been nice had they, you know, had the season done something to kind of keep that together. But we've done it on our own, so it's, it's been, it's been great.
- [24:44]
A
So you guys go ahead.
- [24:46]
C
I just curious. Did you guys sign like a pact with with each other or something because you're like. You're like, hey, we're going to close off to the world and then we're going to spill all of our secrets to each other, and then we're all going to be celebrities after that. Like, that sounds like a fucking recipe for an absolute disaster.
- [25:03]
B
Well, yeah, no, we. We didn't sign anything. I mean, there's, like I said most. There's. There's maybe a dozen of the guys who were like, let's say. And I don't. Maybe a few more. But it's just. We. We just really became, you know, like some. You have a collective experience. We all kind of went through it and it really made us really close. It's a bonding experience. That. That's why, you know, we talked like, somehow we can. If we can replicate it to the many, many men who could use something like this. But then how do you do it exactly? You have to, again, remove everything. It's got to be a decent, you know, interesting scenario, but it certainly can be done.
- [25:40]
A
Yeah. Do you call it like the Golden Bros or something like that? Is that how you.
- [25:45]
B
There was a thing we did. The Mansion men were Kim, which was the. Was with the Navy officer, Captain Kim. He came up with this Mansion Men song. So we're kind of not crazy about that title at all. To sing it, if you remember. We. None of us would sing it, except I did.
- [26:03]
A
I did see that there was a. Someone who needed to sing it when they got eliminated. And I think some wanted to. It's some not. But I do love literation. But maybe, maybe. Yeah, you could maybe workshop that a little bit. But. Yeah, but so. So I want to go back a little bit to just compare and contrast that experience. So. So you got divorced about 10 years ago, I believe, and you were in a. In a small community at that time and probably knew most of the people around you. So you're going through a very painful and dark period. Like, even the best divorces, there is trauma associated with those. Did you have a group of people to turn to or was that a situation where. Because you were probably, what, in your early 50s at that point?
- [26:41]
B
Yeah.
- [26:41]
A
Or was it very. Is like. Tell me a little bit about that.
- [26:44]
B
That was. I. I hid most of it. I did not have even my brothers. I didn't. Maybe I gave him a little bit. It was A, embarrassing and B, I just felt, you know, I don't know if you guys have been divorced or not. You feel a little bit like a loser when that happens. To you. You feel like, how did this, you know, how did this whole thing happen to me? This wasn't how you crafted your, the idea of what your life was going to be like. So no, I did not share. In fact, when some things came out later on, even my closest friends were like, like what. What happens? Yeah, I kept. Except a lot of that. That I kept most of it to myself for a while. It just.
- [27:19]
A
Yeah.
- [27:19]
B
So I guess embarrassing or painful or combination of the both. And I just wasn't really, you know, ready to kind of expose that. But like I was really to expose it to guys I didn't know. I mean it's just kind of crazy. Right?
- [27:32]
C
I get that. I 100 get that because like the, there's just no risk of judgment, right? With strangers, like, because you just don't fucking care if they say something really hurtful. You're like, well, you're a dick. Like, we're never going to be friends anyway. Yeah, but if they, but if they. In the offhand chance that they say something genuine and they go holy shit, dude, I had that same experience or oh my God, that's really powerful. Then you just cut through what might have taken 10 years to get to get to with a new person, with a new friend is like, oh, we're just going to be real with each other from the get go. Like that's actually something, that was something.
- [28:06]
B
New to me though. I mean I hadn't experienced it, so that, that's why it was so refreshing.
- [28:12]
A
And so, and so with, with the. So being in the small town, you decided to move to Chicago. Right. And, and tell me a little bit about that.
- [28:20]
B
I was in Chicago suburb. I just wasn't.
- [28:23]
A
Right, right. But you know, if you ask somebody in Chicago about the suburbs, they would probably tell you it's like a million miles away. Right. Like that's, I mean at least being in New York, like anybody upstate New York you get. There's this whole argument in the state which I'm loath to even men because I'm going to probably get destroyed over this. But like people in New York City think upstate is anything below New York City and people who live slightly above have a very different opinion of that. So it's just, I mentioned it as they're different dynamics at play. But you moved, you moved to Chicago. Did you have a network around you or were you basically alone?
- [28:56]
B
No, alone, alone. It was me. I was kind of at that point I was kind of trying to be anonymous. So you moved. You're in a Big, you know, in the fishbowl in where I was in the suburbs. And then you move to the, you know, like I said, I moved to Wicker Park. You immediately, you're anonymous. No one cares. I could wear pajamas all day. No one would think twice about it. Right. So that was very refreshing. You know, coming from where I was, nobody knew my business. You know, I wasn't posting on social media every day. It was, it's what I needed at the time, certainly. Well, my, my girls and I also, we all needed that.
- [29:28]
A
Yeah. And so. And, but did you. Were you able to build a network of, of friends moving there in your. In your 50s, or was that a struggle?
- [29:36]
B
No, that was a struggle. So, yeah, you know, I think that's a major struggle for guys anytime. You know, we're not. There's no, There was no book club and there was no guys night out. I got kind of paired with some also divorced guys who made the city somewhere in the suburbs. And you kind of mingle through these divorce guy associates and, you know, some of them, you know, your only thing you have in common is your divorce. And you're like, oh, right, do I have to be out with these guys? Is this what my life is going to look like? And then it's. That part is a struggle. Plus, I'd like to play sports, and there's not a lot of guys playing sports, really, at my age, that kind of, you know, like, like I said, I played tennis and pickleball and beach volleyball. And not that I'm a superstar athlete, but I still like to play and compete and guys would rather. I don't want to go smoke a cigar. I don't want to go sit in a bar and drink. I'd rather be active, go to a music show. And it's just the mindset is a little different. So it's hard. It's very difficult to find guys. What. I'll say, you know, who, who I'd like to hang out with in my mindset in my age group.
- [30:40]
A
Well, that's. Yeah. And so this is, this is like why I think this conversation is so important because, you know, we talk about in this country a loneliness epidemic.
- [30:51]
B
Yeah.
- [30:51]
A
And which has been exacerbated by Covid, because we have now, you know, everybody either works remote or works remote part time or the majority of people. So we've lost the ability to interact and engage with. With people, our peers at work.
- [31:07]
B
And.
- [31:07]
A
And then, you know, we're getting even more segmented because, you know, the way social media is now it's sort of like there's two. The two sides don't interact as much anymore either. And I really do believe that this is, this is sake of our democracy. I think we have to figure this out because I think when men get isolated, it is far more. And maybe Chris, you could talk to this a little bit. But like when men get isolated, especially later in life, it's a lot easier to, to essentially red pill them. Right. And to send them down a very dark and dangerous path. And I think we have to solve this problem for people. Like not everybody gets to, you know, Lux our way into a podcast that does well and we get to meet all these guys our same age or not gets to be on a TV show that gets millions of, of view every night like this. There is a, this loneliness epidemic is a real thing. And we're not just talking about 80 year olds like we're talking about people who are divorced or widowed early in life and we don't have great solutions for those people to meet new friends or potentially new partners and things like that. And so men spent a lot of time online and that can radicalize them.
- [32:13]
B
Yeah, well, I mean, certainly it has. I mean, you know, the bro podcasters have really exploded with the, with the red.
- [32:21]
A
Yeah.
- [32:21]
B
And it's gone down to, you know, teenagers. It's gambling is really exacerbated that I think a lot the online gambling epidemic and said I'll go on Twitter, you know, like every in the morning something it starts. I'm sorry I say that.
- [32:38]
A
No, no, I'm saying sorry for your mental health that you're doing. Feel free.
- [32:42]
B
I wish I didn't, but I like nowadays it's so skewed. So the first 30 posts, the for you section are all, you know, some extreme right wing. I just have to start, you know, block, block, block, block. It's something that's meaningful to me. So, you know, they outnumber, you know, the lefties or the Democrats. It's got to be a thousand to one, something obscene because there's, it's, it's so many of them with, between the blogs and the social media posts. It's, you know, we need to do a better job on our side to get the word out kind of. There's no equivalent to half of these guys in the, in the, on the right blogosphere, the Tim Pools or the, you know, Ben Shapiro's who, all those types. There's, there's so many of them. And like who can you even turn to on the left and Say, oh, he's our guy. There just. There aren't that many.
- [33:31]
A
Right? No, I mean that's why we did this because we were like, nobody is right. Nobody. Yeah, I'm not looking. Yeah, I mean I appreciate that but it's serious. It's like, you know, the Republicans and maybe conservatives is a better way have been and been investing in this for a long time and been red pilling men. And the interesting thing about it is that, you know, when you look at study after study after study, if you talk to women and what they actually want in a partner, it is literally the opposite of bro culture. And so, you know, if you are really looking to make friends or find a partner in life, not, not following Tim Pool and Ben Shapiro is the best path forward for you. But like we need a lot more people, people saying that, but it's absolutely true.
- [34:15]
B
So I don't know how, you know, I guess it's just you build a following. But I think maybe just the psychology on the right leads to people just following and just jumping on that ideology. I just don't think it's easy. It's easy on the left where there's, the thought process is wider and I'm not trying to demean them, but we all, you know what I'm saying? I think.
- [34:34]
A
No, you can, you can on this show. It's totally fine.
- [34:36]
B
No, yeah, no, I agree. So yeah, like I said, I hope we can build that. You know, 26 is around the corner. We need to build that in those voices where people can listen to them and understand what's really going on. And I'll click on someone, you know, like, where's this clown? What is he getting these? And he's got a quarter million followers. I'm like a nobody on the right, so it's, it's disappointing for sure. So I'm, I'm really glad that you invited me on. I'm glad that you're doing this and we need to, we need to kind of blow it up.
- [35:07]
A
Yeah, I think we need to figure out some ways to, to take what your experience like, you know, and I know you said you're not sure either and maybe this is a question for the audience too, but like we have to like part of the reason that the right wing echo chamber works is because they, they, they're building community and there are, and there's no shame. Like you could be as vile and as, as right wing and they will welcome you. And the welcoming part I think is what, what we need to do better and I think we have a tendency on the left to, you know, if someone either says something bad in their past or says something now problematic, we're like, you're done. And I think we have to, especially as this effort to move men leftward, we have to be willing to, you know, accept apologies for past behavior and. And not, like, rake people over the coals or. It doesn't mean that we need to give people a pass. There's a difference here. But I do think that there needs to be. We need to be better at welcoming people. And I think, like, if we can find ways. Not that we can create a reality show to lock everybody away for five weeks so you can get to be friends, but, like, there has to be other ways to do that, I would think, because it's so important.
- [36:20]
B
I agree. I was encouraged by the no Kings protest. So I went. I've been to all the process. So I went to the Chicago protest. Super well attended. Well, you know, organized. The people there were fantastic. There was no. There was no, you know, nothing crazy going on. The speeches were excellent. People were orderly. I mean, that's the. So I don't know how you take that momentum and pull people out of that crowd and go, let's build this. But that was a great foundation here. I'm not, you know, I'm sure it was similarly around the country as well, but I was super happy with what happened here.
- [36:52]
A
Well, we talked about. Oh, go ahead, Rich.
- [36:54]
C
I've been thinking about. I mean, we've been talking about this forever, but it's like nobody has a solution. But something that continually becomes the center of the conversation is. Is the concept of gatekeeping. Like. Like you referenced him like, gatekeeping. Every fucking thing. And the idea that, like, on the right, it's not just political like they talk about. That's. That's almost never the first thing they tell you when. Yes. When you create a new account, you're just like. They're like, oh, you're a white man. Here's a fire hose of fucking racism. Because we know that this is you. And you're like, Jesus Christ, you got to self select out of it. But they're talking about video games and sports, and it's just part of their whole culture. Whereas I have circles of my progressive friends where if you walked in and you said, did you see the Bears get annihilated by the Ravens this weekend? They would go, what the fuck are you talking about? Get out right now. Nobody here watches concussion ball. We're not gonna. We don't want to talk about that shit. What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you gonna let your kids play football? You must hate your kids. That's child abuse. Like there's no.
- [38:02]
B
I know it's zero.
- [38:04]
C
And so we don't have to go all the way. I don't want to be the right. But we have to let people be normal again like to some degree when it just doesn't matter. And that means we got to deal with the gatekeepers because it's, it's never everybody who's like, don't talk about football in my presence or don't talk about, you know, whatever. The thing is, it's, it's one person usually who, who is the, they're the, they're the gatekeeper who says what is progressive enough to be part of the team and what isn't. And those are the people we have to, we have to I think address head on.
- [38:38]
B
Well, I mean, I don't know if my daughter's going to be upset with me for sharing this, honestly. So I, My oldest daughter is gay and she's, she has a big group of gay friends and she called me yesterday, she's quite upset that she heard from one of her friends that these a pair of girls in that group want to try to get everybody against my daughter and her, and her and her fiance because they're Zionists. So they're, so they're like, you know, it's a hot button subjects on the left, you know, the far left. And Allie was like, first of all, she's not like a bastion carrying around. She just happens to be Jewish and she, you know, she's a Zionist and she's not posting nothing but the fact that they know and they're like gang, trying to gang up on her to try and kind of basically out them from this large group for no other reason. It's to your point. I mean, forget about inclusivity. It's just like you cross this line that, you know, I don't agree with now, now you're going to be banned. We're going to, we're going to team up to ban you from life. I mean from nothing else.
- [39:45]
C
Right? Because there's, there's, there's disagreeing about the, the, the topics, but there's also a level of respecting where somebody's coming from. I mean, like, I don't think anyone in this country, nobody on the planet should be able to look at a Jewish person and say I fully understand what it's like to feel that identity unless you are also that person. And so maybe, and I, because I'm in the same boat, maybe reserve judgment just a little bit when you're, when you're, when you're encountering somebody with a different opinion that's, that's based around a. Maybe the core tenant in their, in their identity. Yeah, some people just can't do that.
- [40:21]
B
You know, we, as Democrats, let's say, or liberals, you know, you, you're, you're inclusive. That's the whole, it's been the whole part of, like, growing up. You're like, I'm open, I'm empathetic, I'm inclusive. Like, I'm not judging anybody until I do something that's gonna, you know, that's, that throws them, you know, to that way. But, but now, you know, this, this side of it is just to your point, we've got to be. Got to figure out a way to kind of heal that divide.
- [40:43]
A
Yeah. And we're, I think we, especially in that issue because I, you know, I live in New York City, so, like, I, you know, we're in this middle of this mayoral race, which is turning into crazy town between Zoran Mandani and Andrew Cuomo in particular. Chris Sliwa is kind of just an amusing, like, character off to the side saying insane things. But, but, you know, like, I, what I'm really worried about is, you know, people are conflating the being Jewish with supporting what I would refer to as a genocide. And they're not the same thing. And I think that people have a tendency to not get that, especially on the far left. And it's a problem. And it is a problem. I mean, that's anti Semitism right there. You should be able to have a conversation about the, the war in Gaza and be able to use the terms genocide or war or whatever and disagree with each other, but not, like, cancel each other. So you don't have conversations. You probably agree on 95 of the other issues. Now, if you're saying that Israel has the right to, like, murder innocent civilians and children and stuff and, like, be cruel, and that's different. But that's not the situation that you described. And I think people, I think we just, we have to have a little bit more grace with people that we disagree with. And I'm not talking about MAGA where they're, like, outwardly racist and cruel. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking no grace for maga.
- [42:05]
C
No, because. Because that's the, that's the opposite of purity cult. I Mean, that's their, they have their own purity culture. And that's the thing is we, there's, there are very few people who are going to say, I'm Jewish or I'm, I support Israel. There's like eight layers to this conversation. And if you can't be smart enough and careful enough and respectful enough really to carefully dissect those layers where you will find out the person doesn't want Palestinians to be eradicated. They're somewhere between full scale endorsement of genocide and, you know, saying everybody who supports Israel is a genocidal maniac. We have to be the people who have those careful conversations because those will never have those careful conversations. They're trying to rush to where we just ban careful conversations so that you can have everything be black and white.
- [42:56]
B
Yeah, no, absolutely. So again, it's a point about let's, you know, we've got a big pool, but we need to be inclusive. We need to kind of make those, you know, if we, if we want to win, you know, because they're pretty, pretty well organized. And like I said, the fact that they're shameless is such an advantage to them because they can lie and feel nothing, tell. Tell the opposite story the next minute and they feel nothing about it. You've never seen anything.
- [43:21]
A
Yeah, well, that, the term I always use that Adam Serwer wrote about a long time ago is the cruelty is the point with a lot of people on that side. I mean, that's why Donald Trump posted a meme of him literally flying. Was it over Chicago or flying over the no Kings rallies? Dumping, dumping feces on them. Literally, literally on America Americas. Was, was the thing.
- [43:42]
C
They're not Americans. They're. They're pro Hamas terrorists.
- [43:46]
A
Right.
- [43:46]
C
What was the thing Caroline Levitt said? I mean, come on.
- [43:49]
B
Like.
- [43:49]
A
Yeah, well.
- [43:50]
C
And how many people.
- [43:52]
A
I don't, I think that Chicago was the same as New York, where I believe there were zero arrests on those no Kings rallies. There were some counter protesters across the country, Trumpers, MAGA people who were arrested for things.
- [44:04]
B
Right.
- [44:05]
A
But there were, there were very few. And you know, I mean, we all know Jordan, right, that Chicago is a, as a lawless hellscape. So that's just why that it was like that. But yeah. Do you. Yeah. I mean, let's talk a little bit about Chicago. We talked a little bit about the beginning, but like, and I, I lived there for a very brief period, 2008. I absolutely loved it. I also chose probably the best months to live there, which was August through November. And it Was unseasonably warm that year. But I have only known. I know Chicago has problems, don't get me wrong. But like, I have only known Chicago as being one of the great big cities in this country.
- [44:39]
B
Oh, yeah. I mean, it was just voted again, like the ninth year in a row from Conde Nast as the best big city in America. But you mentioned cruelty is the point. So the cruelty is the point when the, when it comes to these ICE raids, you know, and the Homeland Security guys. So when they first got here, you know, I live a few blocks from Michigan Avenue, they're marching up and down Michigan Avenue like, you know, for what. It's such theater. So they're not, yeah, they're not law enforcement. They're not going to stop anyone that's committing a crime. So it's just its show of muscle to intimidate people. And then they were driving like, you know, attack boats down the Chicago river by the Riverwalk. It's like the nicest areas. What are you doing? Like what are you doing? But then they moved into, you know, the, the ethnic, you know, Chicago's got these great ethnic neighborhoods, you know, Little Village and Pilsen and Logan Square. And to really disrupt those communities and the cruelty. And then this, now, this last week, they've moved into nice affluent neighborhoods, you know, pulling, right, you know, housekeepers on their way to work. A guy who's painting, painting their house and they're, you know, they're chasing them down the street, fling them. Yesterday in 2 days ago in an old Irving neighborhood, they were having a Halloween parade when they pulled a painter off one of the houses. They chased him on the street and then they from tear masks, like with the kids around, I mean, yes, it's absolutely insane. And as you can see, videos of shoving women onto the ground. So I saw that. Yeah, just absolutely atrocious behavior.
- [46:15]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's performative. Right. I mean, for people who don't know Chicago, Michigan Ave. Is probably the biggest street or most well known street in, in the city. And I worked on, I worked on Michigan Ave. And walked there every day where I, I lived within the Loop. And there's, I mean, look like you'll, you know, there's homeless people and stuff. Some. But like, it is a very, like very trafficked, very busy city. Same with the Chicago river. Right. All these nice restaurants. It's all performative. It's all performative. And that's why when they went in D.C. they were like down by like the Smithsonian. And I'm like, there's nothing here. It's just. It's just performative. And then you see this cruelty of them ripping these people, you know, violently with masks on and not identifying themselves. And it is just outrageous. But, you know, it seems.
- [47:05]
B
Yeah, I think, like, you know, Chicago's got an outspoken mayor. It's got an outspoken. You know, JB has done a great job of really fighting back against Trump. So I think if they. They can make Chicago, if they can conquer Chicago, they can bring Chicago to its knees. I think that's. It'll bring the. If Chicago falls, the country falls. Because it's like, yeah. Bastion of blue.
- [47:27]
A
So, yeah, there were some ICE raids apparently in. In Manhattan the last few days. And there are some videos which really, to be perfectly honest, it doesn't look like it went too well for the ice. The ICE guys that there was a woman, I think, who stood in front of one of their vehicles, kind of like Tiananmen Square style, which, you know, I thought was incredibly brave, but also just a testament to people who live in large cities. I know the people in Chicago like this too. It's like, we love our cities. We do not need you stop lying about us. And maybe if we want to really focus on the problem of. Of crime, red states have higher crime rates than blue states. It's just more spread out. So it doesn't seem as bad because you don't have the concentration of people. But this is, you know, this is what MAGA does, the war against, you know, the blue areas, which also have the majority of the economic output in the country, have the most people, generally have the best schools, yada, yada, yada. So. Yeah, we see. We see this. So. All right, well, Jordan, we told you we were going to use 20, 30 minutes. We're at 50, so we've done really well. But I want to ask because I know. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's great. I just to close.
- [48:37]
B
Sure.
- [48:38]
A
How is. How is your life now? Would you ever do. Would you ever be the golden bachelor? What's your situation? How are you do, like, how are you doing? And like, what's life like?
- [48:49]
B
I met a girl. I have a girlfriend. I have a great girlfriend. Yeah, I met her. Not from the show, but as ancillary. I was at the Bear game and we met there, so that's great. And my kids are great. I've got a couple. One daughter's married, two are engaged. You know, Chicago, I said, you know, as much as they try, Chicago's still amazing place. To live. There's everything you could want here. So not going to let them ruin it for us. So it's great. Still playing sports and happy as could be. Would I be, you know, now that I have someone, I wouldn't necessarily want to be on a dating show, but another type of show would be fun because that whole show experience is behind the scenes of what goes on. It's fun. There's no, there's no question about it. A lot of things. It's a lot. There's a lot of. There's some perks.
- [49:35]
A
Well, I want to ask you one, one final important question because we, so not so much me, but a few of. A few of our co hosts are starting to get recognized on the street, both from this and from their large social profiles. So you are on a show that got millions of viewers per week. So you are probably far ahead of us. What is it like to have people come up to you and act like they know you? Because we need some prep. Because I, I know at some point someone's gonna say something in New York, and I'm probably going to embarrass myself by like, free, like, you know, stumbling or mumbling or whatever. But what is that like?
- [50:11]
B
Well, you know, it's. It's not enough that it's bothersome. So it's pretty. It's been very fun. I mean, it's been a little over a year where it's started, and it's. It's been great. There hasn't really been many bad encounters. Usually most of them are like, how do I know you? You know, I see them out like.
- [50:27]
C
Oh, I know you.
- [50:28]
B
I'm like, ah, you don't know me. You think you know me? I'm like, no, I know you. You were like, coach, one of my kids coaches. I'm like, no, I just was on a TV show, so it goes like that. And then just like recently, you know, you get. People have really been really nice. You know, they're like, you were my favorite, or like, you know, I loved your journey, that kind of stuff. So, so it's, it's really fun. You know, it's like I said, it opens some doors up as well. So it's, it's. I, I embrace it. I fully embrace it. Take pictures with people, you know, have them tag me in the comments and that kind of thing.
- [50:59]
C
So, Jordan, I have to thank you for coming on because in the spirit of not gatekeeping topics and conversations, I may be a person who in some other phase of my life would have scoffed at the idea of talking about reality TV or talking to a reality TV contestant on a political podcast, because what kind of a monster would talk about reality TV when the real world is so serious? And yet here we are. And. And it's been really nice to. To talk to you and hear about your experience and. And discover that you're not like AI. You're just a real. You are actually a human being.
- [51:43]
B
Yeah. But no, I'm. Listen, if. If I get the chance, I'm glad to talk politics. I'm. I'm slightly. You know, I think I'm well versed. Maybe not as well versed as you guys, but I'm pretty deep into it, and I'm extremely.
- [51:54]
D
We make it up as we go along, so you can do the same.
- [51:57]
A
What?
- [51:58]
D
Look, Chris, I said we. We make it up as we go along. So, Jordan, feel free to do this.
- [52:02]
B
I'm, you know, I think, like, all of you guys, I'm fearful of what is ahead, and we. We need fighters. So I'm, you know, I'm. I'm. I want to fight. I'm. It's too valuable to let these guys just take their. Take it from us.
- [52:16]
A
Well, I think we're gonna. We have been talking a lot about how to build community on the ground. Not just on online, but on the ground. And I think, you know, you. And, you know, you guys showing the experience that you had on the show, you know, shows that there is a desperate need for this. I mean, imagine, like you said, you guys had talked about, like, how do we take this. This feeling and this camaraderie and bring it to other people. And I think that's the thing we have to figure out. And I think on the fight outside, like, you know, we're working on some. Some. Some digital ways that people could stay in touch with each other without having to worry about, you know, Elon or Zuck monitoring your stuff and also, like, how we do in real life stuff, because I think. I think we just lost too much of that. And I think you guys showed the power of what that can be. Even, like, you know, it wrapped up in a. In a reality show. But, like, really, like, what you're telling us is, like, what we actually saw in that particular case was reality and. And got guys talking, sharing feeling, like, my God, sharing feelings. And, like, it being. It's okay to cry in front of a friend. Like, and I don't think a lot of. I grew up in New England, like, in the 80s and 90s, and, you know, it wasn't necessarily like wise well known that you could actually do that or wouldn't be mocked for it. And I think we need more of that and I think, you know, I think it was great that they showed as much as they did and I think it shows that there is work that we need to do both to help men of on all sides. And you know, I think in the reality like if you connect people with their empathetic core they're more likely to move leftward. So I think this is all really, really important. So. So Jordan, thank you very much. Thank you for sharing this. We're so glad everything's going well in Chicago. Helping to dis the myths of that too. We're have to have you back or have you know if people like we should definitely talk some more because I think there's something here and you know you guys are great advocates for it as well and you know can, you know it sounds like you all want to use your new FA newfound fame starting notoriety, slight notoriety can help. So folks, if you have ideas about what we could potentially do to help make these in real life or connections possible, you know where to find us. And Jordan, I'm going to make you stick around for our last final bit that I always do which is basically just hawking our merchandise.
- [54:44]
B
Okay. So this has been fantastic. I, I really loved it and hopefully I'll get to do it again. And if not we can talk offline and some ideas that grow this community in the. Yeah. As large as we need to grow it.
- [54:56]
A
Well, what people don't know is Jordan and I spoke for like 40, 45 minutes the other day and it was, it was really great to you know, talk ideas and kind of being like yes, no, we have to do this. Validating what we have been thinking about and find out. I think also help I hoping validating with Jordan the stuff that he and the guys have been talking about about how we need to do this. So we appreciate that. Before I say goodbye, I am going to hawk our merch which I'm showing here and I do have my. I voted early in New York City today. So you're in New York, you should definitely do that. Or also if you're in Virginia and New Jersey, New Jersey in particular, if you're a Democrat, get your vote in that race is closer than it should be. But once you're done voting you should go to the findout store. Rich is laughing because I pull this every time.
- [55:40]
D
You know Jordan, I gotta say Jordan's objectively a good looking Guy, We. We know this.
- [55:46]
B
Yeah, right? Yes.
- [55:47]
D
But I, I think he'd be even better looking if next time he's on the show, he's. He's wearing a find out shirt.
- [55:52]
B
Yes.
- [55:54]
D
Our most popular find out shirt right now has all of our faces on it.
- [55:58]
A
That's right. I don't have. And I'm actually today, like I said I was last week. I'm wearing the sweatshirt with this, but I'm also wearing T shirt with it as well.
- [56:09]
C
So any other clothes. So he just rotates.
- [56:13]
A
We. We owe Brian Andrews, who's on last week, the country singer, a shirt. Jordan, we owe you a shirt. I think I'm just realizing now we're gonna just. We gotta add to the budget, though, if we're gonna have to give shirts to everybody who comes up.
- [56:24]
B
Yes.
- [56:24]
D
We gotta do that now.
- [56:25]
C
I guess we should charge people to be on. Charge them like 100 bucks to be on and then they get a 35 shirt and we net out.
- [56:33]
D
We should talk about this stuff. I always yell at these guys to stop talking and hit record, but this one, now we're spending money.
- [56:42]
A
Well, now I know. See, this is what you get when we just start riffing and we aren't. We aren't thinking about it. Yeah, I'm trying to imagine. Yeah, I'm trying to imagine me going to like a political candidate and saying, yes, we'd love for you to come on the show. We just need a check for a hundred dollars. Like, I just see how that would.
- [56:59]
C
If it's gonna be 100, we might as well.
- [57:01]
A
Yeah, it's gotta be higher than 100. Right? Like, if we're gonna, you know, we got a thousand.
- [57:04]
C
It's elite. Yeah.
- [57:06]
A
I mean, yeah, I think that. I think there's something illegal about that. So we probably should stay away from that since we probably are on the.
- [57:12]
C
This whole show radar.
- [57:14]
A
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just. Yeah, yeah. But we, like, the merch is all made in America. It's union made. It's super comfortable. You can get yours@findoutpodcast.com and I think I'm gonna leave it there. So, Jordan, thank you. This has been awesome, everybody. Have a great day. We will be back on Thursday with another episode. Probably not with a. With somebody as high profile as Jordan being on a t. A national TV show, but it will be somebody good, I promise. So have a great day, everybody.
- [57:45]
B
Thanks.
- [57:45]
A
We'll talk soon. Thanks, Jordan.
- [57:47]
B
Bye.