← The Find Out Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
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- [01:00]
A
Foreign.
- [01:09]
B
Welcome back to the find out podcast, guys. Did anything happen over the weekend since we were last on. On Thursday? Very quiet, right? We're gonna get to all of the craziness, but we want to talk about the Eric Swalwell situation right now. And we are very, very fortunate to have a very good friend of the show and actually one of the people that helped to expose this, the horrendous actions of the congressman. It's Mrs. Brazil. Ariel is here with us. How are you, Fraz?
- [01:38]
A
I'm good. How are you? Thanks for having me.
- [01:41]
B
Oh, our pleasure. Well, you had a very eventful week. We're joking about saying all these things going on, but you know, there's obviously like we have seen that Congressman Eric. Eric Swalwell has suspended his campaign in light of the accusations of five women that have come forward and their suggestions that there could potentially be some others. You have been working with these women for a while and you were one of the people that helped get the story published. And obviously you've gotten a lot of kudos and also insanely enough, some negative over the weekend about doing this. But I want to hear about the journey. How did you first get connected with these women?
- [02:18]
A
I was first connected with them, honestly. I just had posted online after some vague posting naming Eric Swalwell and saying, you know, if you had an experience with this man, you can text me at this number. This is how you make a burner number on Google Voice. Or you can email me or you can send a pigeon to my home, like, whatever, whatever you want to do. And it really just started from there. And that was in March, I think it was like March 22nd or something like that. And it's. It's been. Been a really insane ride ever since.
- [02:54]
B
So. So how did that first. Did one woman reach out first? Or like, how? I. I'm just curious because, like, especially as men, we don't, you know, I don't know much about, you know, how this all kind of comes to be in a lot of instances.
- [03:08]
A
So.
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B
Yeah. Was it just one woman that started and then it kind of snowballed or how did that go?
- [03:12]
A
Kind of in a way. I mean, when I first got reached out to by Swalwell's team, it was after he launched his campaign and he wanted to launch with creators, which is not unheard right now, as you know. And I hopped on a call. He was very impressive. We had a good time all together. And afterwards, I believe the day after, he posted a little picture to his story of him talking to us. And I reposted it and said, you know, I. Because I at that point had already had an interview scheduled with him. So I was like, you guys are going to love meeting him, like much more to come. Yada, yada. My DMs. Oh, contraire, mon frere. You will not love meeting him. They were like, one person said, you know, you know, he sex people at 2am do not give him your phone number. You know, he's sleeping with his interns. He's been like doing this. And then I had a friend who was basically just like, ooh, that one you need to keep an eye on. And that doesn't ever happen, despite how many politicians I have interviewed. I mean, he also gave us his phone number and the phone call. So it was just unprecedented stuff all around.
- [04:18]
B
Right.
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A
And it just kind of did keep coming out from there.
- [04:21]
B
Wow. It's funny because I actually have his phone number as well. It is a very. He. This is a pretty well known thing about him is that he does he gives his number out. But. But then. So what were they saying about like when they were like, stay away from him. Did they provide any examples or specifics or was it more of a just like general, like the vibes are off Doe or how.
- [04:42]
A
How did that go in the beginning? It was very much like a conversation around. Well, on the Hill, everybody is kind of cheating. Not everybody, but there's a lot of cheating. There's a lot of sleeping around, there's a lot of all these things. But they specifically would say, but Swalwell is sleeping with interns, not even senior staff. We're talking about like out of college
- [05:06]
B
kind of college or just out.
- [05:08]
A
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, so that was really alarming to me. And that's when I started like hitting up people I knew who were working there. I wanted to know, did you know somebody this has happened to? Is this true? Have you seen this? Did it? And like from there I unfortunately was connected with more people who had some situations. And you know what was interesting is that I would get notifications saying oh yes, I had an encounter with Swalwell. I had an encounter with Swalwell. And I wasn't ever really positive until each one of them would say, and that was when he took the conversation to Snapchat. And I was like, oh shit, we have enough. Like it was just like that was very much a through line. And then right after that I started hearing things about oh, you know, I was a aspiring politician, as a woman in dc, I didn't know anyone. And he offered to help me, he said that he was going to help me, let's go out for dinner, my staff will be there, yada yada. And it just was very much like a new through line was emerging. So we had like the interns and the staff, we had like the weird Snapchats and texts and then we had what I felt was almost like prowling behavior that I was hearing about. But at this point I had heard of no crimes. So even after I posted I had heard no crimes. I just was he other than like extremely immoral behavior but like you know. Right. He was a sleaze, he wasn't a criminal at that point in my mind.
- [06:49]
C
Right.
- [06:52]
B
So, so then yeah, and for those of you who don't know, first of all, I don't even have Snapchat. I don't know if I, I, I, I kind of like always thought that was just a, I know, right? Um, but for those of you who don't know, and I think the insinuation here is because Snapchat all everything disappears after a certain period of time. Which would explain why a 40 something year old man would want to take a conversation from a text message or imessage, whatever the hell it is and move it to Snapchat, which is primarily again a teen and 20 something app to communicate with each other space so their parents don't see what they're talking about.
- [07:24]
C
As a designated 20 something year old, you're 1,000%.
- [07:28]
B
Look at that. I got, I Don't even think I have. I think I downloaded when it first started. I was like, oh, this is not for me. And that was the end of it.
- [07:34]
C
Tension behind the app when it was first launched was sending explicit shit. Like, that was the goal.
- [07:39]
B
Oh, it was. I didn't even know that, like, 90% of what it was used for. Was that when it first came out. Well, all I know is that Metasar and they were like, ooh, we could do that with stories. And they just basically stole the idea and put it on Instagram as well, which changed. Which changed how we all use it. But anyways, so. So back to. So at this point, you're hearing. And I think, you know, for those who don't know, yes, the Capitol Hill can be quite scummy is a pretty good term for it, both on the Republican and Democratic side. It's the reality of it when you've got a lot of people with a lot of power, you know, thing and. And a lot of attention and all kinds of terrible things. So, like, it's not surprising that you heard that. When did it start moving into an area where you thought that, like, a law could have potentially been broken?
- [08:25]
A
Really? When? After Cheyenne posted. So Executive director, Gen Z for change attorney, very talented, wonderful human. Had a friend who had an encounter, shall we say, with Swalwell, where some bad shit happened. And her friend saw my post and said, please, Cheyenne, will you post to your platform? And she said, yeah, because she had heard and seen now all of what that had done to her friend's life and how that had gone. And so she posted. And the interesting thing is we never really. We know. Well, first of all, we never knew each other before. So this was like our first meeting was somebody texted me saying, do you know a Cheyenne? I hear she's posting tomorrow. And I was like, somebody's posting. Somebody's coming alongside me in this because I've just been called a crazy person for like, a long time. So she did. And then we never really crossed sources. Like, I had my group of, I believe 13, and she had her group of however many. And we just were like, not trying to a make the women feel like they were a get. Like, oh, we got like, yeehaw. Let's. Let's blast this. You know, you like, these are people's lives and encounters that have, like, really messed them up. Because, like, I've gone through this. It's like, really difficult. So we just realized we had women everywhere. And it was a couple of people who came to Cheyenne specifically Our lovely friend who is measured and not a troll on the Internet like I am, and revealed to her that they had. There were crimes. And I have a voice memo I sent her, I think on like the second day. I know her, knew her because I had gotten some intel from someone else that was a crime. And I, the first thing I said to her was, Cheyenne, I think we bit off more than we can chew here because what we thought was going to go in the direction of like, hey, this is an abuse of power. This is wrong. This is sexual harassment, and this is not. Okay. Turned into, oh, this is a crime. And that was really, really jarring, to be honest with you.
- [10:51]
C
Right.
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B
And so once that happened, you said, this is about a month ago from now, because we're, we're recording on Monday the 13th. So you're, you. This has been roughly a month since you found out, Is that what you're saying?
- [11:02]
A
I posted at the end of March, and Cheyenne and I got in touch March 30th. So I post on the 22nd and like a week later she posted.
- [11:13]
B
Okay, because it's important, I think it's very important to have the timeline here because I think we've heard a lot of people online, right, say, well, the timing is suspicious here. The timing is suspicious. Which I don't, which is people, by the way, ridiculous bullshit. But, like, but I, I, it's important because you have literally known about this for weeks, not months, but it sounds like actually like two weeks, two and a half weeks, something like that. So it's. I think it's important to tell people that because a lot of people like, oh, well, you know, he's in the lead and this just came up and it's like, well, first of all, the primary is in June, so when else would you want this to come out? In other words, you've only had this information for weeks, not months. So with that said, so now that you've, you know, you had the conversation with sh. With Cheyenne, who's the other person in this, that is really helped to get this story told. What is the journey? So you said you had 13 people on this thread. Now we've heard of five people. Does that mean that. Theoretical. And I'm obviously, I don't want too many details because I don't want to get anybody exposed. But, like, the suggestion here is that there are more people that have stories to tell about this. Is that correct?
- [12:18]
A
I. With our estimations with the lawyer that we've been working with, it is likely that he approached thousands of women on Snapchat. Like, I'm not kidding. Well, hundreds to a thousand. Like, literally. Because he's been doing this constantly.
- [12:34]
B
Oh, my God.
- [12:35]
A
As far as we know, back to, like, 20. 2014. I mean, I've heard stories back to 2011, but, like, this has been ongoing. And there was. And there was a Taylor Lorenz article in 2016 that calls him the king of Snapchat and notes that he was passing out business cards with his Snapchat on them. And I remember when I was in College, I think 2013, I was really into Snapchat. I could be a huge liar, but, like, you know, it was back then that that was a real big part of my life. So that doesn't surprise me that, you know, but it's. It's like a vast amount of number. Number of women that have been approached and then likely, like 50 have, like, complaints. Complaints. And I mean, as I have posted, as the story has come out, every day I've gotten more.
- [13:26]
B
Yeah, double digits. It's easy to say double. Double digits. Yes, for sure.
- [13:32]
C
Right.
- [13:32]
B
Okay. So with that, so then you have these talks. So then. So what was the next step after that? So you obviously got. You and Cheyenne are kind of working two little different angles. What happens next?
- [13:44]
A
So it was really at that point that we realized that we had people everywhere. I mean, we had reporters everywhere because people had been coming to me. And then I would get women reach out to me, and then I would send them to, like, a list of lawyers. But before I did anything, I wanted to make sure. Not lawyers. Jiminy Christmas. I had a list of reporters and I would send them out. But before anything, one of the, like, core tenants of when I posted, when I did, was I needed to have a lawyer that was willing to pro bono represent them if anything should go down, because they were very frightened. There was a lot of talk about NDAs and settlement agreements and all of these things. And, like, he had leveraged his power to say, like, I will ruin your career. No one will believe you. Things like that had happened. So I wasn't going to go nuclear and post until I had that on lock. But then we had more lawyers coming forward and we had more reporters. And I was like, this is crazy. I mean, CNN did not even want the exclusive. I just had a favorite reporter that was very gentle and kind and thorough and was at a publication that had worked on this specific topic since, like, 2016. So I was like, you are going to get all of the women. You're gonna get them all like, they're coming to you. And then we had one lawyer that we sent everyone to. So at that point we started to try to get a critical mass because what we realized was, what we didn't know before was that journalistic standards are very high and very important and we respect them very much. But it was like, you need three really for. To go live, you need three fully vetted stories at least. And I was like, you know, we'd have people with one, people with two people with whatever. And I was like, this is crazy. So we just. We had to like buckle down at that point.
- [15:29]
B
So. So, okay, so that. That part up. And it's important to lay out all these steps for people too, I think, because we are still combating this. Like, why don't women come out immediately after something like this happens? And you're hearing that like a reporter for a single circumstance, unless they had hardcore evidence, wouldn't touch it, you've got to have a lawyer because you could potentially get sued for defamation and things like that. So. So you took a little bit of. There is a little bit of a different approach here than just waiting for the story to come out because you started to talk about this before the stories hit. So what was. So how did you. What was the decision making process there to start, sort of. And without saying any details, you know, you were starting to say, there's a problem here. So walk me through that. And then like the reaction you were getting from. From disclosing that.
- [16:20]
A
Sure. I mean, it's really interesting. I never really thought that that part was going to be very interesting to anyone. And that's the question I keep getting because it is strange. Like, people in D.C. have been like, this is very weird. And I was like, why? I just talking. Like I needed to gather information. What else was I gonna do? You know, These women had been made to feel like they were the only people this happened to because it was very like, you're the only one. Like, you've. I've never done this before, you know, that kind of shit. So it was like they had no clue that they existed and like gaslighting them, essentially.
- [16:57]
B
All of these women.
- [16:58]
A
Beyond. Beyond. Yeah. So it was so critical that they knew they weren't alone. And a lot of the first reach outs I got were like people saying, hey, I have a friend who had like a thing with Swalwell. Can I like, are you talking to anybody else? Because they don't want to be alone. And I was like, you know, so we would put people in touch with each other and whatever. But it. I don't know, I just. I couldn't take it anymore. I just knew too much. I knew that I was banging my head against the wall behind the scenes, being like, I know that a lot of people know about the same stuff that I know. And I kept saying, is anything gonna happen? Hey, do you think this is gonna come out? Do you think that there's gonna be like, whatever people like, oh, yeah, it's gonna come out. It's gonna come out. And then I was like, ballots are going to be mailed on May 4, and it is March. What do you like? Tick tock. Because I also knew Republicans had this. They've been all over this with him. So, like, we're looking at the California governor's race, and not only is there, like, a person poised at the, like, to become the governor of California who is a sex pest, like, he's an abusive power. He's going to get a new stomping ground. I'm hearing things that, like, the prowling to me started to indicate. I was like, he's escalating. I've. I've listened to the True Crime podcast, okay? Like, he's gone from Snapchat to the real world, and we need to, like, get his ass, because this is scary. So, you know, I just. I have to. I got to the point where I was like, I don't want to do politics anymore. I don't want to talk. I want. I don't want to go to D.C. i don't want to go to the Hill. I don't want to look at anybody because I'm disgusted. And, like, this can't be allowed to happen. So I took out an umbrella policy for a million dollars in case he sued me. And things went horribly awry. And then I posted and I was like, okay, if, like, wow. Because I also wasn't going to out the people who had come to me in the interim. There was no way that I was going to, like, share receipts. I just was like, so everybody thought I lost my mind. Because I was like, you have to trust me. And they were like, you have posted no proof. And I'm like, correct. And I'm not going to. But you are going to have to wait. And they wait, wait. We did well.
- [19:11]
B
And I want to make it clear to people, too. You are not a DC Or a political person by. By trade.
- [19:16]
C
Right.
- [19:19]
A
And a theater kid. Right?
- [19:21]
B
And you are. You are not. You are not an east coast person. Right? Like, you are.
- [19:24]
A
You know, I'm not Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, sir.
- [19:27]
B
Oh, you are. But you do not live in Pittsburgh.
- [19:29]
A
No, no, no, no, I do not. I haven't been there since 2013, like, in any meaningful capacity. But I do want to shout out, you know, my roots. But yes, you're right. I, I'm not in that world. Which is also helpful because I can talk more freely about things. Because there is also, like, if you're in politics, especially if you're a woman people, don't you. This is, this is your social life, this is your career, this is your livelihood. Like, but me, I'm like, I don't care if I ever go again. So.
- [19:59]
B
Right. You were actually probably the, you were probably the right person to, to tell the story. Because it is true. Because if you're from this world, going up against a congressman or congresswoman or senator is incredibly intimidating. They have so much power and, you know, especially ones that are media savvy like he is, and it can be very, very scary. And I could see why, like, everybody, you know, there were rumblings, right. And you said, like, the Republicans have this story, they knew about the Chinese spy thing, which, you know, whatever on that thing. But like, they also do this. And so like, it was going to come out, but they were going to drop it probably in October. Correct. Instead to completely torpedo him. So anyway, so back to. So when you put that out there, what was the reaction for people overall?
- [20:41]
A
Oh, I lost a many follower. I've, I, I lost a lot of people. I mean, there were people that, there was a group chat, at least one about me that I was told that was happening. And I was like, they can do, they could do that. That's fine. Let them occupy themselves. I'm very, very busy. Like, I don't care. It's the same feeling that I have though, with like, you get a lot of pushback from like MAGA people. Right? Like, it's that same kind of thing where it's like you can get pushback from people that, you know they're wrong. And in this case, usually I'm very sensitive to, like, pushback from people on our own side. But I just knew that it was going to be over and it was going to be worth it because these women were going like, this wasn't going to happen on the Hill anymore, hopefully, or I was going to go get sued and go to discovery and he'd have to crack open his Snapchat. Like, I was like, we can only get the House Ethics Committee shit. You can't FOIA those complaints. They're they're buried if they go to the House Ethics Committee. So I was like, but if we go to court, I can get them. So I was like, perfect. But he never cease and desisted me.
- [21:53]
B
Yeah, yeah. Probably for exactly that reason. And we'll get to the season desist in a minute. But I want to ask you, would you say from a percentage perspective, can you. Do you have a guess on how many of your responses when you started talking about this were positive compared to negative?
- [22:08]
A
95% negative easily.
- [22:10]
B
95% negative, easily, easily.
- [22:14]
A
So I went back and checked how many overtly horrible things I hid because I just didn't want people that were coming to see the post for help to see the horrible ones. 52. And then I had blocked 40.
- [22:28]
B
It's like 52 that you didn't want a potential victim to see.
- [22:32]
A
Yeah.
- [22:33]
B
And 40 that you just. Oh, yeah.
- [22:35]
C
Jesus.
- [22:36]
A
I went back to a lot of them and a lot of them deleted their stuff. And I was like, come on. I was coming back to show you the article when it came out, but they didn't want that to happen to them.
- [22:47]
B
I want to talk about your research because that is. That is hilarious. But. But we're not there. We're not there yet. So. So. And I want to be clear, like, these are mostly Democrats, right? These are mostly Democrats that were saying
- [22:57]
A
I was ruining California.
- [22:58]
B
You were ruining California. You were giving the race to Steve Hilton. I'm assuming that's the one everyone thinks, by the way, I've met that guy. What a fraud. But anyways, so, so, so we get to that point and that's what I think a bunch of us started to see you doing this and not having known you for a while, like, you know, I think most of the creators in the space. Well, I think I. Correct me if I'm wrong, believed this, but the general public, no. How long was it between. Because I can't really remember now. How long was it between when you first started talking about this and then Friday when the CNN piece hit? Was that a week basically, that you had to endure this stuff? Was that basically it?
- [23:40]
A
I posted March 22nd, I think the
- [23:44]
B
CNN, you went out early.
- [23:45]
A
Early came out on April 10th, right? On a Friday, one, two, three weeks.
- [23:52]
B
So did. Did that get better over the three weeks? Did it stay the same? Like so much worse?
- [24:00]
A
Because I started banging more pots and pans because I needed. I. We needed critical mass to publish. And once I posted and once Cheyenne posted, there was almost like a timer of like Ben Swalwell's camp started to run oppo research on me and Cheyenne and victims. And then they started to have meetings about. And then there was press releases and press briefings coming out. So there was like, like the rubber was meeting the road. And I was getting increasingly more insane on the Internet because I was like, I know I can get more. I know, I know that there can be more women connected to this because when it came out, we needed to have everybody in one place. Everybody from 2016, everybody from 2013, 2020. We needed to have like everybody in a row. Because when you're accusing somebody, like, I, to me, a congressperson is just a guy. I don't give a frickety frack. Like, I don't. He means nothing to me, I fear. But that's because I didn't come up in that world. So, like, But I knew that you can't go. Once we put all of our eggs in CNN's basket, I didn't, I couldn't go back to the women and be like, can you tell your incredibly traumatizing story to four other publications? Can you get on a zoom so we can like, get this into a rat race situation? Like, you can't. That's so insensitive and so horrible and so not the point. So I was like, but cnn, I will give you such an airtight, insane amount of people that when this hits, he is not going to be able to walk it back. It's not just one. It's not just this isolated incident from whatever. Like, it's, It's a broader picture. And there were a lot of people that of course weren't published. You, I think you've seen. I think there was like four that were in the thing. There were far more that went to cnn.
- [25:50]
B
Right. So in the. Oh, go ahead, Rich.
- [25:53]
C
It just. I was totally on the outside by the time I knew there were, there were allegations. I did the only thing I knew how to do, which is not, not talk and try to listen, which is. It's hard for me because there are a lot of things that pop up in your head. But like, please, when you hear serious allegations, like, to listeners, don't just get on the Internet and fucking have a hot take on this shit. Like, please, fucking God. Because when you look at how this actually happened, this is the only way it could have gone. That ended. I'm not going to say well, but that ended not worse for the victim specifically, and also obviously for California and for the country. Because if we had waited for Republicans to put out These stories and these names, we've seen that movie before and we would have actually had a reason to question whether the victims were just people, like fucking right wing grifters getting paid to do this by maga or if they were actual victims. And then that makes it a thousand times worse for people who were really victims. So when you take a person like you, you're not out there saying everybody's funded by AIPAC and Kamala's Holocaust, Harris and genocide. Like you're. You're the right. You're not an angry leftist looking to cancel people. You're also not in maga, a MAGA freak looking to cancel people. You were a person who felt compelled to do anything. Which even just being a woman and doing that, it takes an insane amount of courage because it terrifies me to even think about speaking up against a powerful elected official. So anyway, it's a long way of saying badass. Badass. Right. Thank you for your courage. And. And the timing was correct. You did it right. And the timing was correct because this went from nobody really knew if this was even a thing to him being out of the race in like two weeks. Right. Like 10 days, which is absolutely insane to. To deliver that kind of immediate sort of response. So thank you. And I'm sorry. And I'm sorry to the victims that had to go through this.
- [28:05]
B
Yeah. Well, and first, let me ask you this about the victims. So you. You've been talking to them for a few weeks. What were some of the things that obviously anonymize this, but how. What were some of the things they were afraid of? Because I think it's important for people, especially men, and especially men of a slightly older age, need to hear this. What were they afraid was going to happen by them coming forward?
- [28:28]
A
They were really afraid of retribution. And socially, even not just career wise. There was somebody in the office with Swalwell that they named multiple times as somebody who they were afraid would bury them or ruin their life. And you can see that in the San Francisco. San Francisco Chronicle article. The San Francisco Chronicle woman who had a horrible experience with Swalwell, as we all know, she wasn't going to say anything. And this person in the office said, hey, can you tell the press, you know, he never did anything? And she kind of paused. And then she was like, it's correct that he never did anything. Right. And she paused and she goes, never mind, I don't want to know. And that was it. Really. That's in the San Francisco Chronicle article. And that was when she Was like, you know what? Fuck you. And this. Let's go. And was like. Because she was also only like, she was so brave. Like that thing that, like, like, oh, I am, like, in awe because, like, when I went through this at work, I was really, really not brave. And like, the only thing that made me come forward was another woman who harassed by him. I went to her classroom during recess and I was like, hey, I have to tell you something. And she was just like, the, the. She literally called HR and was like, sit down. And I was like, they're going to fire me. And she was like, no, they're not. Like, no, they're not. But I, you know, I was so afraid because it is a social thing because in this similarly, like, they asked all of his friends, he had been there for like seven years, hey, have you seen like this crazy girl? And has he done anything to her? Like, every single one of our co workers. Similar thing in Congress. It spreads very, very quickly through those hallowed halls that look like a dorm room. And I'm just like, they. And you know, yes, they're also afraid of their careers that he, you know, a lot of these women, especially the ones that weren't working under him, were like, freaked out because obviously he's like, I'll help you with your career, and then is a creep to them.
- [30:57]
B
Right?
- [30:57]
A
And the obvious next step is you yap, and you're not going to get help with your career. Even if he did, like, and he explicitly said it and whatever. Like, there are a bajillion reasons why women don't come forward when they do. Or, like, it seems like a winding road, but maybe it's not. They told their mom, they told their therapist. Like, you just as a public. We also just don't know what has already been done. So to just say, like, oh, these women just appeared. Heck, no, they did not. No, they did not. They have tried. And you, you can see reports now coming out from Mike Trujillo that, like, they were. They reported this shit before. And the old, the elder people, the elder staffers were like, no, that's just like how it is. Like, you know, go to a different office if you're uncomfortable. Like, we'll switch you. Like, whatever.
- [31:49]
B
Yeah, no, it's. I, I mean, I think it's very clear that. I mean, it happens all across the country, as you're saying, right, that it's very difficult for women to come forward, especially if they're on their own, because people don't believe them. Both men and women don't believe them. And that's going to lead where I want to go next. But let's. Okay, so Friday happens. The story comes out. What is your. When you see it, like, what is your initial reaction once you see that it's finally out there from a credible news source, cnn, obviously, everyone knows. Is it relief? Is it anger? Is it sadness? All of the things like, I'm curious seeing that, like the work that you did and you put in for nothing and obviously at risk with your own personal career is finally seeing the day of light, you know, Light of day. Sorry.
- [32:38]
C
All right.
- [32:39]
A
It was interesting because San Francisco Chronicles scooped them, so they came out first. So they had been waiting for additional sources, but as we, as we saw, they had like two. They had that woman's absolutely horrific story and they had like the details about, like. And he was a pervert on Snapchat too, you know. So the night before Swalwell had cease and desisted, two of the women coming forward with the worst allegations, which you can see in the screenshot of that cease and desist, it's about the assault allegations and non consensual touching. And he. And I should really even back up further because the day before that Wednesday, he was in the press running his mouth. And I expected him to. I was. We were all like, okay, what's he going to say? We knew these meetings were happening. We knew the oppo, whatever. And then I'm like, okay, what's he going to do? And you watch him get on camera and lie. And I was like, oh. We were all like, oh, God, he just pissed so many people off. So many at once.
- [33:52]
B
What was that? Like, the shirt unbuttoned? Like he looked like he was in the chair of a hotel room.
- [33:58]
A
Yeah.
- [33:58]
B
I'm like, are you trying to like. Right, right. But that, But I'm like, yeah, what?
- [34:04]
A
And he was like dunking on people on Twitter. He was. They were like, I'm really disappointed with these allegations. And his team put up a picture of like a crowded town hall. And I was like,
- [34:16]
B
yeah, you. So you don't want to do that. You don't want to do.
- [34:19]
A
I have never. There have never been allegations. There's never been an NDA. And I'm like, you guys, we got him. We got him. Like, oh, my God. And so many people were like, I'm going on record. I'm going like, like, people. Women were pissed.
- [34:34]
B
It opened the floodgate, basically.
- [34:36]
A
Right. Even more. And we knew the story was already coming. But then that was like, next Level. And then the cease and desists were like beyond and beyond. By Thursday night we all, you know, everybody's saying it was Roger Stone. No.
- [34:50]
B
Oh, give me a break.
- [34:51]
A
By 4:30pm, everybody, I was getting texts from the group where the women were like, did you tell people? And I was like, no. And they were like, they look at everywhere on the Internet and publicists were texting their group chats at this point. Like Roger Stone was like, he found out at like 10:00pm Come on. Like, no. So like it was just ridiculous to me. And then of course, overnight we get the cease and desist. So whatever we didn't get, the women get the cease and desist. And then they weren't, they didn't pull back. They were like, no, you can't, by the way, desist a story about me saying I was raped. Actually.
- [35:30]
B
So to be clear, because just to make a finer point on this, he said cease and desist, but he didn't actually know who the people were.
- [35:42]
A
Right.
- [35:42]
B
Because they were anonymous and they did. And the reporters did not give up their names in this investigation. But boy, all of a sudden he sure had the right phone numbers for the people who were involved, which I find to be very curious in itself.
- [35:56]
A
Isn't that interesting? I mean, he, he, I watched him and his team make so many stupid ass mistakes as an outsider from dc, not a comms person. But I was like, you are far too upset and you are reacting and you are being just the stupidest person alive. So he was asked for comment with the anonymous sources and your response is cease and desisting. Figuring out who they are and texting their phone at midnight. Your lawyer did texting at midnight, huh? Like really stupid. Like just. But then it came out anyways.
- [36:35]
B
So we came out. Yeah, on Friday. And I remember, I remember when I saw it and it was like, oh, thank God this is out. What was the reaction online though, afterwards? Because this is an important piece of the story as well. You know, we were 95 to 5% negative before.
- [36:51]
A
Yes.
- [36:51]
B
What did it, what did it, what was it Friday, say five minutes after the story broke into the weekend?
- [36:58]
A
At first it was, it was like 75 positive. Like it wasn't all the way. There were still the holdouts from about a quarter of them. Like, what happened to the free trials and rights to being innocent? Yeah, I'm like, doesn't matter to me. But I, like, I've seen what I've seen. It's a wrap. So I really didn't react, which is weird. Like, I Had been, like, sobbing on Tuesday and, like, pissed on Wednesday, anxious on Thursday. Friday it comes out, and I was like, thank God. Thank God. Like, this is out. Like, we. The. Like, the women were so jubilant and happy and, like, felt so free. And I was like, well, that's what it's about. Like, that was. I was like, I feel like my reaction overall was like, and I'm done. Like, because they. They felt better and, like, I was a little antsy waiting for the story to come out. So I'd check in with the women, and they'd be like, no, we're so happy they're vetting. We're so happy that they are going granular on this so that they can't say we're lying. They can't say it wasn't vetted because CNN spent all this time vetting every single piece of this to the point where now we know there's a DA Investigating this out of Manhattan. So the women felt so happy, and I was just like, okay. And then I've just ever since been, like, crashing from adrenaline. My ear is ringing right now. I have a headache. I'm so tired. I'm just like, people are so kind and happy to me, but I'm like, I need to go into a cave for the next, like, eight days. People are like, are you going to the correspondence dinner? And I'm like, no, I'm a hybrid. I will be in bed, I'm sure, by. In 10 days from now. Like, are you kidding?
- [38:51]
B
Yeah. Well, I have a few important questions to ask you to keep coming up. We're going to just get it on the record because I've seen some insane. And we always tend to focus on the neg over the positive. Right. You could have a thousand positive reviews and one negative. You've, like, focus on it.
- [39:04]
A
Yeah.
- [39:05]
B
Have. Are you a paid Russian asset?
- [39:08]
A
No.
- [39:09]
B
Great. Thank you. Did you do this to make sure that another candidate is elected governor of California?
- [39:18]
A
No.
- [39:19]
B
Great. I think those are the two biggest insane ones that I found. I can't think of any more off the top of my head, Mike. Oh, I did find it funny that there was one. I'm not going to say the name of the person, but that you were. You were actually accused of. Of treason.
- [39:34]
A
Yes.
- [39:35]
B
And by the way, this is. This was from a. A woman. And actually, what I have seen, and you correct me if I'm wrong, but, like, what I have, I've actually seen probably equal men and women still fighting this thing, which blew me away, especially the women. Blew me away because of. Obviously, women have much more experience, you know, with. You know, there's like, what is it, one in four women have been assaulted or there's some horrific. Like that's. It's either happened to you or one of your friends. Was that surprising to you or not that there were women that were. No. Why. Why is that?
- [40:08]
A
I mean, I've watched how many women come forward with stories of assault. I've watched. I would. I lived through. Me, too. I had my own shit. I was in college. Like, you know, it's really just a very pervasive issue. First of all, sexual assault and harassment, but also the internalized misogyny that allows women to eat each other and believe the patriarchy before they believe women. I mean, I think you made the point. It was easier for that woman to believe that I'm paid by Russia than that these accounts are credible. And that really was not surprising to me. I was disappointed by the volume of people that still dug their heels in. Like, I was quite disappointed. I'm disappointed watching people try to capitalize off of this monetarily. I'm frustrated by people that are trying to ride this wave and get something for themselves because it's. It's disgusting. And that's absolutely not the point here. The point is that these men should be fucking scared that they cannot do this shit in the dark anymore. They are not going to be able to get away with this. And, you know, word on the street is they're quite scared. And I said, good, Good.
- [41:33]
B
Good is right. I also found it funny because I mentioned earlier that you kept your receipts. It has been interesting to see some people who were very negative about this and attacking you, and then all of a sudden turning on a dime once the stories came out and saying, like, I believe all women. And then you. You come flying in with screenshots showing that some of these people were actually the ones telling you that you were a Russian asset or that you were not to be believed. Am I correct on that?
- [42:02]
A
Yes. Yes. I. I was going insane in my house for a different reason than I was going insane online, because I was just like. This was eating me. So one of the only vices I had to carry me through was creating organized, labeled folders because I knew that they would scatter like little cockroaches whenever this broke. I knew I wasn't going to find much in those hidden replies, so I just kept them. And it proved to be quite useful. And I know that's not being the bigger person, but it felt really good. And I don't. You know what those are.
- [42:44]
B
Yeah, but, but also, like, it's important for people, and I know you got to go in second world rap, but like, it's important for people to see how difficult it is for women to come forward and to be like, you know, everyone, everyone's like, more likely to think that you're a Russian asset than a man as a sex past, a man in power, or that these people turn on a dime once the stories come to light. And it's like, yeah, you can't pull a 180 and not forget that before you. Basically, if it was up to you, this, these stories wouldn't have come out. So, you know, we, we've, you know, first of all, we really appreciate you coming on, and I think that you have, you have a lot to be. I know you are not looking for the credit, but I'm going to give it to you. You deserve a tremendous amount of credit for believing these women and not only believing them, but helping them. Not enough people are doing that in this country, especially not around the world, but in this country where we're supposed to be better, but we're not. And I think it's really important for people to hear how this came to be because people need to understand how difficult it is for women to come forward or men who have been victims of sexual violence of some sort as well. So we really appreciate it. We are tremendously proud to know you. And I'm sorry that there are still some crazy people out there. I mean, it's kind of funny at this point because it's so absurd.
- [44:01]
A
Just another day at the office. You know how it is.
- [44:03]
B
You know, but, you know, I love the, the. You're taking the notes. Because I'm the son of a first grade teacher. My. A retired first grade teacher. So I understand. It's, it's not in my blood. I would have lost them all. I would have been digging for him. I'm like, where the hell is this? But, but thank you and thank you from, from, from everybody, because this also could have cost us the gubernatorial election. That to me is secondary to the women and the horrific stuff that they've come through. But, Fraz, thank you very much. If you're not following her, please follow her everywhere. She deserves all the falls in the world. We got to make up for some of the ones you lost. I think you've already made. I think you.
- [44:35]
A
They came, you definitely made them back.
- [44:37]
B
It's not, not the reason we're doing this, but you know, we really appreciate it, and, you know, for our audience tends to lean more men, so men need to hear this story. So thank you very much. We'll have you back on again and we'll talk about some more fun stuff. Well, I was gonna say we'll have you on for education, but education right now is not a very fun topic either. But. But I know you gotta go, so thank you very much press, and, you know, we'll be talking soon.
- [44:59]
A
Thank you, guys. Woohoo.
- [45:01]
B
All right, bye. Well, this is a different episode, guys.
- [45:06]
C
It is.
- [45:08]
B
It's hard. I mean, it's. I've known Fraz. We were in the first chorus cohort together, and I got to meet her in LA a few weeks ago or back in December. She's just a good person. And so to see, like, people attacking her for doing the right. People fucking suck, man. They do. I mean, there's a lot of reasons for it, but. But yes, it's like we do not. Our first instinct in this country is not to believe.
- [45:34]
C
Victor. Yeah, And I. That's been the hardest part for me because the timing was not suspicious. The timing was painful. Painful for everyone. It was painful for the victims who had to wait forever, who had to watch him almost probably get power. It was difficult for Fraz, who had to buy a fucking $1 million insurance policy, right, Just for helping people who were victims. And it was not bad timing for California voters or bad timing for Swallow. Like, there was a really easy way for him to not have this happen, and that was to not do any of the things that he chose to do. It's a monster frustrating to watch people default to a position of protecting someone in power when all of these victims, these people who spoke up, There is no fucking upside here. There is no upside. Like there might be a civil suit 12 years from now where they might get some E. Jean Carroll money. Probably not. Maybe that is the like, and that doesn't motivate anyone compared to the immediate consequences of being wrong. You come out with an accusation like this and you're lying, it's guaranteed social evisceration, professional evisceration, and financial and legal evisceration. You are taking on the establishment, and you have to be 100% airtight, because the only defense legally for defamation and libel is the truth. So if you have the truth and approval, you need to say it. And it's still insanely difficult. So there's all downside, no upside. And they still fudgeing, did it because they felt that compelled and People come after them as if, as if they're pursuing some what fame? Like what are they getting out of this?
- [47:26]
B
I know what is. Can you name one person who has falsely accused someone of sexual assault that got ahead in life.
- [47:32]
C
Right. It ends well for them. Yeah.
- [47:34]
B
That it ended up wealth. It is a completely absurd. But it's like for some reason, and I do not know why we in this country, and I know this is not just in the US it is very hard for us to believe that this thing that happens every single day happens every single day, which is sexual assault and sexual harassment. I have so many people on threads say to me, I want to see the proof. I'm like, what the fuck is the proof? You want a video? You want a confession? The proof is in the women's stories. There's five of them. Think about the probability here for a second because you'll be, oh, well, there's, you know, there are some women that lie. Okay. In one off situations. I'm sure it happens every once in a while. Five that don't know each other. Like, walk me through that. Like, walk me through. And then it's like, what is the proof? Because in the court, they're going to hear the stories of her, of the women, they're going to hear the stories of the men. Maybe they'll get some Snapchat nicely. But then they have to decide. We have the evidence. The evidence is in their stories. You could read the articles. So it's just this, it's just this, like, I don't want to believe that Eric Swalwell is that man. Right. And it's like, stop lionizing these politicians. That's one problem is that we make these people out to be these hero, these heroes. And they're. Some of them are, but some of them are not. And these are just people. Anyone in this, on this podcast right now could be a member of Congress. It's not that hard. Raise money. I don't know how to talk to camera. Well, he's, you know, he's got a big following, you know. You know, depending on, you'd have to probably move a district. But, you know, but, but the point being, the point being is like, it's not that special, guys. Like, it's not. And then they get to D.C. and they get drunk with power. Everywhere they go, they are flanked by at least one or two staffers. People do it advance for them. They show up at these cocktail parties. People are glowing on them because they want money and they get these big heads and they do this terrible shit, but they're just regular fucking people. And, like, we have to start thinking, wait, who has more to lose here? Right? Like in this, this situation, like, these women have nothing to gain. Yeah. Nothing and everything. Even, Even though most. If we're moving to a place where most people believe them. I don't know what, like, I don't know what careers these people are in. But the woman from the office, right, she's claimed credibly sexual assault. Is she going to get another job in a democratic office? I don't know. Is she going to get a job off the Hill? I don't know. Because people don't want the hassle.
- [49:58]
C
Yeah.
- [49:58]
B
So, like, this suggestion that women are doing this for fame and for money is such fucking horseshit. And it needs to be more people who look like us saying it because it is completely out of control and it is laughable when anybody suggests it.
- [50:11]
C
I think especially in this case where it does appear to be to have been all adults, that makes it even more difficult to make an accusation because if you're 17 or 16, all you need is any evidence of, like, enticement or flirting or anything, and that's an immediate. Like, they're fucked up. But if you're 21 or 22, whether the person's 40 or 60 or 23, it doesn't make a difference legally. And so you now have this higher bar to clear where you have to, like, prove in the court of law or at least in the court of public opinion that, that you weren't, like, flirting, that you weren't. That you weren't both drunk, consenting adults just making a bad decision. So that makes it even more difficult. And so it's even more admirable that the victims felt that they found it in themselves to speak out, because that means that they believed that they had to protect really probably people in the future from having this happen. Because, like, like Fraz mentioned, person like that, he's been doing this allegedly for over a decade and it's only escalated. It's not going to de. Escalate if he gets more power. Governor of California is a very powerful position. You go from there, you can get into the White House. So, yep, it, it was only going to get worse and the, the, the victim count was only going to increase had they not done something about it now. So again, can't say enough how much I appreciate the people who spoke out about this. I hope this, you know, I hope the outcome is at least going to help a little bit.
- [51:49]
B
Yeah, well, And I. Another thing that really frustrated me this, this weekend because I was, you know, you joked with me about fighting with the trolls last week if I have not stopped any of that. Unsurprised. And, but a lot of people were like, yeah, but like, you shouldn't destroy a man without all of the proof. And I'm like, yeah, but guys, him dropping out of the governor's. It's not a right to be a candidate for governor. Like, that's a job interview. And you can make the determination of whether you want the person in the job or not based on whatever the fuck you want. And you should be able to know that this guy is a sex pest, that there are all of these women out there. It's. We're not sending him to jail. That's what the D A in Manhattan is going to be looking at because the alleged sexual assault happened in New York City, which is why that D A is investigating. But, but it's a job interview. Like, he can go do something else. We aren't, we aren't saying he needs to go to jail for 30 years. We're saying he shouldn't be governor of New York or, excuse me, of California. Like, shouldn't be. Can't move here either. But, but anywhere. But like, it's just shocking. I'm still in 2026 and I know with women listening are probably with like, tim, you idiot. But like, I'm still shocked at how many people just have no interest in believing women whatsoever. Done.
- [53:06]
C
None on paper or in movies or TV shows. They will. But in real life, when there's any consequence, when there's any kind of. Yeah, like, oh, it's too inconvenient.
- [53:18]
B
It is. It, it's. It's just in there. Oh, well, you've, like, given this to Steve Hilton. I'm like, they were going to drop this in October, guys. What do you think was going to happen when the Republicans. You think the Republicans didn't know about this? Like, this. I mean, the Roger Stone thing is nonsense because, like, I've known about it for a couple weeks. Like, you know, this isn't. He found out the day before. And they hate Eric Swalwell. So, like, it makes sense. Also, those guys get intel from some places that they probably shouldn't be getting intel. Right. That is helping them. So.
- [53:46]
C
Yeah, it's just frustrating. They pay for it. I mean, if this had happened on the right and that. We haven't gotten into that at all. But you know, the whole, like, oh, well, how, you know, liberals are Just doing the same thing. And like, no, Trump is president. After all of the accusations came out,
- [54:02]
B
you got, you still voted for him.
- [54:04]
C
They looked at it and said, all
- [54:06]
B
right, that's not a deal breaker for an adjudicated. An adjudicated rapist. Yeah, adjudicated rapist. Who bragged about it? Who bragged about it? 34 time felon now we're seeing today, unfortunately we're gonna have time to go into it, but today he like, you know, went after the Pope and, you know, put, made him put a meme up of him that he was Christ. Apparently that's what pissed off the religious people, not all the other horrible. Apparently, like the, you know, the blasphemy was a bridge too far. Not the, like now, not the sexual assault, not the, like, you know, the felon, the financial felonies and all cheating on his wife and doing all like, you know, cutting U.S. aid. So 600,000 people die. It's this thing. And almost I'm actually glad we haven't really talked about Republicans because it is important to talk about our own house. And yes, most. There are more people on our side trying to hold men like that accountable, but there's not enough. But there's far more than there is on the other side. That's absolutely true. And so it's.
- [54:58]
C
Well, seems like there's a sum total of zero on the other side, so.
- [55:02]
B
Right.
- [55:02]
C
Yeah, well, and I was going to layer in the fact that, you know, Trump had the National Enquirer going out and buying stories to just bury him on his behalf as well as his, as his own fixer going out and just straight up paying off women and victims so that without denying anything, so that they would just settle, settle, settle and sign NDAs where typically on the left, you have a lot less to zero of that. You know, people running interference and, and paying off victims to try to bury stories. So no, this is, these are things that happen and I'm not going to give him any pass because it's a thing that happens more with people in power because the power, I think eventually gets to them. He's still just a person who chose to do these things. Right. And this, but this is a thing that happens especially with people in power, and this is the only way you respond. You can't, you can't stop bad things from happening. You just have to fucking call it out and put an end to it and just say, I just need justice to happen here. I'm not saying that he definitively broke a law. I'm Saying that I wouldn't vote for someone who, when someone comes out and says I think or that he did something wrong and then the fucking dam breaks and then everyone is all saying, oh shit, yeah, independently. Yep, I, I witnessed that or that happened to me, I'm not voting for that person. And I don't recommend other people support or donate to that person as well. It's, it's not like a crazy ask to put out to the world.
- [56:30]
B
No. And especially as there are other candidates in this race, frankly that are more qualified than I, than a member. Just, I mean not just me, but a member of Congress is a staff of like 15. And you're going to go run the fourth largest economy in the world. Like I think you know it. So with that we've got to run. But like we actually have one of the candidates. Actually, I think the most qualified candidate is going to be on the show Thursday. Javier Becerra is going to be with us. He was the, he was a California assembly member, then he was a member of Congress, then he was Attorney General of California and then he was the Secretary of Health and Human Services in the Biden administration. The guy before jfk, the one that actually believes in science. We're going to have him on the show. What did I say?
- [57:11]
C
JFK doesn't believe in health anymore.
- [57:13]
B
Well, we can't ask him for comment, unfortunately. But no jokes too soon.
- [57:20]
C
Okay.
- [57:21]
B
50 years, we're fine. 60, I think 60. 60. 60 years, yes. So he will be on the show on Thursday. So if you have questions for him, please feel free to let us know. And we have another candidate, I don't want to say their name because we haven't locked it that is interested in coming on. So we may become the California gubernatorial gateway to success. Maybe, I don't know. But we're going to be doing that this week is all California. So gear up guys. So with that and I guess the other thing, I will put it on the screen at the bottom. But if you are somebo is a victim of sexual assault or sexual violence, I want to put a number on the bottom of the number that you can call anonymously and talk to somebody because we are certainly not the right people to do that. So we'll edit that after this. But I want to thank fr. Incredible, incredible person. Really, really proud to know her for in the women that came forward. Super brave. I want to thank you all for listening. Let us know what you think about this show in the comments below and we'll be back on Thursday. Bye everybody.