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The Find Out Podcast
Is Donald Trump Really a Fascist?
00:51:18
Is Donald Trump really a Fascist? We talk about what fascism really means, where the term comes from, and how Trump’s rhetoric, governing style, and political movement compare to historical and modern examples. From attacks on democratic institutions and the press to strongman politics and loyalty tests, we separate analysis from outrage and ask what actually matters as Americans head into another high-stakes election cycle. We also have some fun with the humiliating boxing matches for both Andrew Tate and Jake Paul over the weekend.
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- [00:00]
Luke
Foreign.
- [00:17]
Tim
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Find out podcast. Our pre Christmas special. Except we don't have anything special.
- [00:25]
Erica
I was gonna say special, guys, something we missed.
- [00:28]
Tim
Something special that maybe it will not be as long today. Possibly we will see. But anyways, we're gonna just for a holiday announcement, we're gonna do one episode this week. And then obviously Christmas is Thursday. So sorry, we are not going to do an episode for you on that day. And then next week is that weird middle week where nobody really thinks that, like, reality is real and people don't.
- [00:50]
Erica
Know where they are.
- [00:50]
Tim
We're gonna do one episode next week too. So we're gonna dial it down a little bit and then we're gonna come out of the gate in January with a lot of fun stuff. So anyways, the biggest news of today is this report that broke last night that CBS News through 60 Minutes had a, a special ready about some Venezuelans who were deported by the Trump administration to that El Salvadorian prison, the terrible one where Kristi Noem wore her like $50,000 watch and took a photo in front of a bunch of people in a cage. But you know, that's, that's what you do when you go to work.
- [01:27]
Erica
That's that, that's normal person behavior, you know.
- [01:30]
Tim
Yeah. I mean it is the loathsome behavior behavior that we were used to. But Barry Weiss, who is the new head of CBS News, who is from the Pre Press, which she founded, which is a right wing media outlet and now she's in charge of CBS News, killed the story because she said it was quote, unquote or no, that there were quote unquote problems with it. Now the problem with that is that the, the reporter who worked on this story sent a memo internally which has been leaked because of course, and said that is not true. In fact, that it had been through the process to make sure everything was good, like five times the lawyers had seen it and said it was fine. The sources checked out. And cbs. And for those who don't know, killing a story on 60 Minutes with three hours before air is essentially unprecedented. So this is a big story. And of course everybody is thinking, is CBS News now just a right wing hellscape? I don't know what my answer is. It's like, yes. Yeah, it's bad.
- [02:35]
Luke
Like that's a, I mean, you think about it, you go back in time, it's one of like the three channels you could have in America. And now it's getting corrupted by fucking the Trump administration. It's great.
- [02:44]
Tim
Excited Yeah, I mean we grew up watching dan rather at 6:30 every night and you know, you didn't really question.
- [02:50]
Erica
60 Minutes was like the one news thing I liked as a kid, like routinely. Good.
- [02:55]
Zach
Yeah, yeah. See what Bari Weiss. Barry Weiss is not a journalist. So let's, let's start there. She was a well paid New York Times opinion writer and her column was just contrarianism. So her, and for people who'd never heard of Barry Weiss, she is a lesbian who is really, really anti trans. So she has, she has established this character that is everything that everyone says, you know, needs to have holes poked in it. She likes to argue and she thinks that contrarianism and intelligence are the same thing. She just thinks that if you're arguing it means that there's a legitimate debate to be had. So the Free Press is a wildly successful, I think the most successful substack which was, which was sold to CBS as part of a deal so these right wing billionaires could get this contrarian to run one of the major networks. She is not and never has been a journalist, even though she is a substacker. Having substack doesn't make you a journalist. So her excuse for killing the story was that the administration did not comment and they didn't have someone from the administration sit for an interview. She is too much of a novice to realize that no comment is, is a comment. That, that is, that is the comment. You, a, a journalist with a student journalist knows that if someone says no comment, that goes in the story, that is their response. So if 60 Minutes did a piece on a, you know, what is essentially kind of like a black site slash torture chamber center, whatever, that they sent.
- [05:03]
Tim
People to, yet gleefully, that is.
- [05:06]
Zach
That's your answer?
- [05:07]
Luke
Yeah. I mean I would imagine that in the background she alerted the Trump administration about this and they said fucking pull it. I mean it's got to be what happened, right?
- [05:16]
Erica
Bingo.
- [05:17]
Tim
I'm sure they did.
- [05:19]
Zach
I don't, I don't know that she would go so far as to check with them. I think she would just see it and kill it.
- [05:25]
Luke
Yeah, that's possible too. I don't know her background well enough, but she sounds like a piece of shit. Checks out.
- [05:30]
Tim
Well, I mean look, she's a, she's a partizan hack. I mean that's very, very obvious. And look like I was in the Obama administration for five years at the department and there were plenty of stories that were written about us that we didn't like. And it like to be very clear, saying no comment does not kill the story. It just means that you are not participating in the story. But the journalists have no, there's nothing that's like, well, they said no comments, so I guess we can't run the story. If that were case, there would never be a story on anything.
- [06:00]
Erica
I don't even think they said no comment. They couldn't, it couldn't be reached. Right. And.
- [06:04]
Tim
Well, that's in itself. There's like, first of all, yeah, but.
- [06:05]
Erica
There'S, there's so many stories where it's like so and so could not be reached for comment at this time. Literally every fucking news story you read these days about a celebrity is that.
- [06:15]
Luke
Yeah, that's true. I mean, the thing that I always wonder about in this sort of situation, like CBS is a huge institution and they see the writing on the wall that like Trump is extraordinarily unpopular and going down this hole seems like a really fucking stupid business decision in my mind. Like, I, I mean, it's happening all over the place. Obviously it's happening in tech, but like, I wonder how much thought from places like CBS and all these other major organizations that are making these more pro Trump decisions, how much thought's going into like three, four years from now when everybody looks back and goes, why the fuck did you do that?
- [06:48]
Zach
Because it's the same thing as the gamble that, that Elon Musk took when he bought Twitter. He bought and destroyed Twitter not to make a profit, but to destroy a channel of communication for truth and journalism. Twitter is still in its current form, even as much of a cesspool and as shitty as the service has gotten, it is still the place where Democrat politicians go first to make a statement. It is still the place where journalists publish their, their stories or at least links to their stories, even though there's no outlinks. So it's basically fucking pointless. They know Larry Ellison, who now owns and controls CBS, Paramount and, you know, making additional acquisitions like TikTok, trying to get Netflix. Their goal is to make it so that the people, like everyone who's not a right wing billionaire is completely fucking powerless. They are squelching voices, they are squelching truth. They are destroying journalism. That is the goal. And it's a good investment as far as they're concerned, because they'll do it to NBC next and they'll do it to, you know, any other of the network channels that are still left.
- [08:10]
Luke
So how do you. What happened? Like, I mean, I really, I truly want to know what, what reasonably could happen next when you fast forward through the end of this administration, say you survive it and everybody's pissed off. Everybody hates the right, Everybody hates Trump because of all the shit that he fucked up. How do they account for that? Because at a certain point, if the public consensus is really negative, I don't know how they have a successful business.
- [08:35]
Tim
Model left because right wing media makes more money than traditional media.
- [08:40]
Zach
You know, Fox News didn't lose market share.
- [08:43]
Luke
You know, look at like, like Netflix is a great time. Like you said, they're going to acquire Netflix. Like if they start only green lighting shows that are more, you know, friendly to the right, like that's a bad business model there. I can see it in news. Like, that's an easier explanation. But like if you're starting to go into culture and entertainment and trying to take over Paramount, all these other things, it's like this won't work if most people don't want to watch the fucking show, you know.
- [09:06]
Tim
Well, I think what they would say, and I think I got that wrong. I don't think, I think Netflix is trying to acquire Warner Brothers, that Paramount is trying to get Netflix. I screwed that up. But what I would, but I would say, like, they, the reason that the Trump administration has acted the way they have in the last year is because they think that they have won the last election. Like that, that is it. And now they are moving to shut down all of these voices of dissent. And we know better than anybody that culture is one of the best ways to actually affect someone's, you know, belief system. And so, you know, all of a sudden if you, you know, you buy, you know, these TV outlets that like all of a sudden, you know, maybe the feelings about anti trans start like seeping into content or discrimination or anything, or villainizing liberals. And so losing all of those channels would be, would be devastating for the left. And I would argue that, you know, CBS News, like in Barry Weiss's mind is probably like, well, there's quote, unquote, three major quote unquote liberal news outlets. We are going to be the right wing one. And there are enough people that even when Donald Trump and the Republicans lose in 26 and 28, there is still going to be plenty of money in that world. Like, I mean, we've talked about what happens next with maga. Well, if they are starting to purchase, you know, mass media and starting to change the conversations that happen in mass media, we could be in a lot of trouble. Like we could have a short term win, but long term already in trouble.
- [10:41]
Erica
Look at Fucking turning point. They have chapters in high schools.
- [10:45]
Tim
Yeah.
- [10:47]
Erica
Telling them that their high school problems are caused by immigrants and woke politics. There's already a problem.
- [10:55]
Luke
There is a problem. There's no question about it. I still like the part of me that wants to have a bunch of foresight into this is going, this is a really bad bet they're going to make because all of it is based on falsehoods. Right. It's easy to win election. I think what the right gets wrong about this shit is it's very easy to win elections based on falsehoods. It's very hard to continue to control people with falsehoods unless you have an institution that empowers it. Like you see that in Soviet culture and all that. It's easy to maintain that. It's very hard to shift from a democracy to something more like that. I think the Trump administration and people who support it are very much in the mindset of, well, look, he's won twice, obviously he can convince people and this is a convincing argument, so therefore we can take this further. And I, I don't, I think temporarily maybe, but I think it long term. I don't see how it plays. I think it gets a very big pendulous swing back the other direction and a lot of these people are going to get fucked.
- [11:50]
Zach
I, I don't think that you should think about this in terms of Democrat versus Republican. I think you should think about, this is Democrat, the Democratic Party versus fascism. Because that's, that's the historical like parallel that, that we're facing here. We're not facing like a Jimmy Carter Reagan thing, we're facing a Weimar Republic becomes Nazi Germany thing. And for people who think that I'm being hyperbolic, remember that if I told you a year ago that we'd be filling planes full of people, including legal immigrants, and sending them to a torture camp. I don't think you'd, you'd believe me. You'd think I'd be hyperbolic. If you, if I told you a year ago that we'd be building concentration camps in swamps where the point is to basically torture immigrants and strip them of all their rights, you'd probably say, no, you're being hyperbolic. But, but this is, this is the world we live in now. So it's, it's, we're not having a pendulum swing. We're having all of these right wing billionaires who have a disproportionate amount of power and influence on everything. Culture, news, how we get our electricity to our house. Food supply. Like, they control all of these levers that make voting all the more important, but also not the only thing that matters.
- [13:20]
Luke
No, I agree with that. I'm not casting it in that, like, old Republican mindset at all. It's really like, I don't think he would have been hyperbolic to say those things either back, you know, a year ago.
- [13:31]
Erica
No, I called those ones.
- [13:33]
Luke
Yeah. They're like. I think the challenge I have, because I do. I tend to be one of those people that looks at that sort of statement and go like, well, what are the levels of it? I think the Trump administration has done what they always do, which is they find that line and they operate just up against it and they keep trying to nudge it further. But I've always been of the mindset, like, there's a certain point where that line can't go further. And I think that that is strictly because of the fact that so many people in this country are just anti where this ends up. Like, I don't think there's a world that exists where the United States could become like Nazi Germany in the 30s as a ramping up to World War II. I just don't think that that's feasible given the circumstances and given the structure of America versus the structure of Germany back then. Like, I get the. How you could draw that line, but to me, I'm unconvinced that all of society could fall into that without, like, a severe precipitating event. Like, you know, you know, back in Germany, it was the economy being absolutely fucking throttled. And, you know, but there's a. It's just. I don't buy it. Like, I buy that smaller things can accumulate, but I think when you start to, like, really affect the average American, that's where the line gets crossed. And I think people be like, hey, get the fuck away from my shit. Like, right now, it's just not happening. Most people are getting affected are people who are vulnerable or, you know, immigrants. It's. It's not the same yet.
- [14:50]
Tim
Well, I think my. I mean, I think I understand where you're coming from that. But I mean, like, we have millions of Americans who are cheering, droning, or not droning, but striking fishing boats of people who have no. Like, they were never coming here in the first place. Millions of Americans have no problem with us picking up Venezuelans and sending them to El Salvador or people sending them to Sudan or these places that they don't know anything about. We have. I mean, 30 to 30% of the country is fine with the Donald Trump third term, which could not be more illegal if you tried. Like I'm not a constitutional attorney, but I know what, that's what, how that reads in the constitutional men raps now too. Right, right.
- [15:33]
Luke
No, I agree with all that. But it's like I, what I'm, I think what you said there is a 30%. You're correct. What I'm more empowered by is the 70% of people who will go, well no, fuck that. And I think like right now a lot of them are not activated because their day to day life isn't getting threatened by what's happening. But I think the second you encroach into their day to day life, that's when you start to see this become a non starter and that's like that butting up against the line of never crossing. I think the Trump administration knows that.
- [16:04]
Tim
Yeah, I, I don't agree.
- [16:07]
Luke
I just haven't seen the evidence. Like show me the evidence like on a large scale. Well, the evidence for the average American, like, like that's, that's like I'm missing that. Anytime I hear this like fear from the left of like how far they can go. I'm like, okay, I see that. How far they can go with low hanging fruit. But when it comes to stealing rights from the average person where they feel it every day, I've seen nothing like that from them because they know it's not possible.
- [16:29]
Erica
See, I had an interest, a different point the day that Charlie Kirk got got. I saw a lot of people that I would never have expected to be upset about it come out of the fucking woodwork about the left is getting us. That's the left. The trans people are killing us. It's time. And I was like, that's way more than like the 15% of people that I saw were big Charlie Kirk fans. Yeah, it has to come out of that 70%.
- [16:55]
Luke
I mean I think that there's, there's people out there that are definitely hiding in the shadows and going like quietly agreeing and shit. But again like those people are not feeling the effect of like their fundamental American rights being taken away.
- [17:08]
Erica
Yeah, but those fundamental American rights don't matter to them. Trump being a third president, third term. I don't give a shit. They don't give a shit. Why would they care? They like the guy.
- [17:17]
Luke
They don't know the stakes because they don't feel them. Like that's the thing.
- [17:19]
Erica
But there is no stake involved in like, there's no, there's no stake in him having a third term until it's too late for them. Like if, if he goes, oh, I just want to have a third term. Don't worry. They go, okay, that's fine. And then they walk right first into never having an election again, and they have no idea until it's too late.
- [17:36]
Zach
And again, it sounds, it may sound to some people like I'm being hyperbolic, but the old poem about like, first they came for the socialists and I did not speak because I'm not a socialist, and there was no one left.
- [17:48]
Erica
To speak for me.
- [17:49]
Zach
Yeah. That. That type of incrementalism is how fascism works. And it is. First, it's the, the immigrants. It's. It's always, you know, the LGBTQ community first. Right. They're. They're always the ones who the fascists go after. It's who Hitler went after. It's who Franco went after. It's who Mussolini went after. It's. It's who Gaddafi went after. Right. That's. That's who they go after. They go after the immigrants. Then right now they're going after not just immigrants. The 14th Amendment grants citizenship to everyone who's born on the U.S. on U. S. Soil. Right. So they're moving past immigrants. They're moving towards agree to hear that case. And that is. That is many millions of people in this country who currently think that they are safe when. When they are not.
- [18:41]
Luke
Well, yeah, no, I understand all that. I still think that, that those are like, compared to the average, flat out average American. These are not the average American.
- [18:52]
Tim
But are you, are you referring to white people?
- [18:54]
Luke
No, I'm argument to the average American.
- [18:56]
Tim
Because I would argue that women have less rights today than they did when before Donald Trump was president. They've lost. They've lost the rights over their own bodies. The LGBTQ community in some areas of the country can't even say that they're gay at their job. Right. That's a loss of Florida, for example.
- [19:17]
Zach
The.
- [19:17]
Tim
Don't say gay. You know, we've had legal immigrants deported, which is illegal.
- [19:24]
Luke
Yes.
- [19:25]
Tim
And they've lost their rights. So I guess, like, you know, they're not going to take maga's rights away from them. Right.
- [19:31]
Erica
This is my question, Zach. When do they come for the white people's rights after everybody else's, and then it's too fucking late.
- [19:37]
Luke
Right? That's sort of the narrative that I'm like, I agree with everything you're saying, Tim. Like, I'm not saying nothing is from anybody. I'm so what I'm Responding to is Luke's point of like, I don't think they make that step. And it's not just white people. I think it's just like the average person in America who's just born in America and they're just living their regular life. There's no extenuating circumstances. There's no value to the Trump administration or anybody on that side to trying to overthrow substantially how those people live. Because in the end they're don't, they don't want that. Like, there's no value at all unless their true end goal is like a Hitler esque end goal where they truly want to fucking send everybody who disagrees with them away to a concentration camp. And that's the kind of shit where I'm like, I don't think that's ever going to happen in America.
- [20:19]
Erica
Yeah, but, but like the spot where you walk all the way up to that where they've just not touched the white people that are born here is pretty fucking fascist. It's pretty terrible.
- [20:30]
Luke
I'm talking about any color.
- [20:31]
Erica
No, no, I get it. But like that the, the white people are the very last people that the Trump administration.
- [20:36]
Luke
Of course, of course. But I'm, I'm not going that far.
- [20:38]
Erica
But it would, it would require them coming after them for those people, a lot of those people to care for you middle aged suburban people who do not care about anyone else, they get in their car every day and go to work and they don't give a. They are never going to care until somebody comes after them or their family. And the Trump administration never takes that step. But every step prior to that is fucking terrible.
- [20:59]
Luke
Right? Well, I mean, that's sort of what I get at with my other stuff where it's like, in the end, the thing that takes down Trump is like those people feeling the effects of Trump's policies, right? Like his shitty fucking economic policies making their life even more difficult to live. Like, it's different if they have something to offer them, but if they have nothing to offer them, are actually taking away from them. I can't ever imagine a world where they get enough power to be that like, let's just shift the way that America functions.
- [21:22]
Tim
But I think that's part of the challenge and the scariness of the CBS Evening News thing or the CBS News thing in particular. Right? Like, for example, we didn't even mention that, like, you know, this administration has been hell bent on getting rid of dei, which is, first of all, it's not just for minorities. But like, that is a message that they have pumped into their world so that white Americans are like, I'm okay with that. So, like, you know, I think, I think the hard thing, you know, for, for me, and I'm not, I'm not clearly saying you're advocating for this to be clear, but it's like, very frustrating to me that every single minority population in this country essentially has had some rights taken away and the average white person goes, man, yeah, fuck those people.
- [22:04]
Erica
That, you know.
- [22:05]
Tim
Right. And that's a different thing than your argument.
- [22:07]
Erica
That's a bit.
- [22:07]
Tim
To be very, very different at all.
- [22:10]
Luke
My.
- [22:10]
Tim
But I, and I don't. But I think you're right. Like, I think, you know, I think he, he is. Or they, I mean, look, they want a white ethno state. They do.
- [22:21]
Luke
I, I don't know if I believe that.
- [22:23]
Erica
Stephen Miller does.
- [22:24]
Luke
Stephen Miller.
- [22:26]
Tim
But he's the deputy chief of staff, President of the United States.
- [22:28]
Erica
Dollars to donut Elon Musk does.
- [22:30]
Luke
You know, for sure. There's definitely people.
- [22:32]
Tim
Why else would you, why else would you be, would you be kicking out millions and millions of, of immigrants if it wasn't for that?
- [22:40]
Luke
For sure.
- [22:40]
Tim
Because it's not the economic, it's not the economic, it's not economic reasons, it's not crime reasons.
- [22:46]
Luke
It just, even, even just hearing it like, just as somebody who lives in the middle of it, like hearing they just want a white ethnosteal feels like a very blanket, large, broad statement. It's like, I do agree they prioritize white people. There's no question about it. And I think that they want white people to be the primary holders of power. That I won't debate. That's clear as day. What I, I think that huge leap of going. They want a white ethno state where they're going to strip the rights away from everybody who's not white. That just feels like I don't. But they're doing it in their.
- [23:13]
Erica
They're not going to strip the rights. They're just going to send them out. That's.
- [23:15]
Tim
Aren't they, but aren't they doing it?
- [23:17]
Luke
Well, they're doing tiny pieces of it. Yes.
- [23:20]
Tim
I don't know if those communities would say tiny pieces. No, I agree.
- [23:22]
Luke
But, but if we're, if we're analyzing the meta. Right. They have taken this much of it. They're not here yet. And like, and, and my argument is I don't think they can capture most of this and I think they know that.
- [23:34]
Tim
But, but that's right. I'm not Saying they could do it all either. But I think they. They'd want to.
- [23:39]
Luke
To me, this is the white ethno state for people listening. I'm holding my hands far, like, that's.
- [23:44]
Erica
Where I get as close to that as they can. As Tim said, they will take every step until get well.
- [23:49]
Luke
Yes.
- [23:49]
Tim
I think I, I think their goal. Right. Is to push everybody else down.
- [23:55]
Luke
Yeah.
- [23:55]
Tim
Right. And lift up white people, which, let's be honest, they've all had the advantages in this country over anyone else. It doesn't mean their lives are easy. It just means it's easier.
- [24:04]
Luke
Oh, for sure.
- [24:05]
Tim
But, like, you know, these things with dei, they do not want minorities, people of color competing with white people and going to college. That's exactly what that's for. They don't want Latinos in certain areas unless they're picking fruits and vegetables. They don't want to hear anything else. Right.
- [24:21]
Luke
And they're.
- [24:21]
Tim
They're moving people.
- [24:23]
Luke
Yep.
- [24:23]
Tim
LGBTQ plus community. They're talking about getting rid of all of the discrimination or taking them out of discrimination laws in this country to the fact where, like, a teacher in elementary school can't say they're gay, but a teacher can say that they're straight. That's discrimination, right?
- [24:38]
Luke
Yes.
- [24:38]
Tim
We're pushing everybody down and pushing them out of these worlds so that white people take those jobs. Change the conversations around these issues and I would argue, send us back to the. I can't even say 40s like earlier. I think if they could do it, they would. I don't think they can succeed because.
- [24:57]
Luke
I think there's many of us, like the 80s.
- [24:59]
Zach
So let's.
- [24:59]
Luke
The 40s.
- [25:00]
Zach
Let's talk about two government officials and, and things that they said and did over the last few days. So first is Vice President J.D. vance, who once called Donald Trump America's Hitler, who. The Vanity Fair article revealed that the. The Chief of Staff of the president believes that J.D. vance has been a conspiracy theorist for 10 years. Right. That's how you enter this fascist pipeline, this white nationalist pipeline. J.D. vance attended Turning Point USA this, this past weekend, and while on stage, he said that, you don't have to apologize for being white in America anymore. This is the same. This is the same problem that we had with, like, the War on Christmas thing. We've all laughed about the War on Christmas for, I don't know, 15 years now, probably longer. Like, the Daily. The Daily show was, Was doing clips during the Bush administration. Right. So it's been, it's been quite some time that we have been laughing at them, talking about the war on Christmas. But when we hear a joke, they hear there's a war on Christians. They hear that there is a jihad against them. And. And a lot of evangelicals in this country, Fox News viewers, have internalized this. And it has risen to the point that we now have a Fox News host who is the Secretary of defense.
- [26:30]
Tim
Weekend host on Friday.
- [26:33]
Zach
Yeah, Weekend. A drunk weekend host who's now the Secretary of Defense, calling himself the Secretary of War. And he just threw out the army chaplain's manual because it included too many mentions of things like mental health, not enough about God. And to be specific, we're talking about his God because capital is just one of them. Yes, he is reducing the number of denominations that the military is going to recognize because he wants to slim down what it means to be a godly person. So we have entered the space where. Where it is becoming official government policy to one, produce the conspiracy theory that anyone has ever had to apologize for being white, which. Which has. The Vice President of the United States, who Erica Kirk endorsed for the next presidency, has said has promoted this conspiracy theory, which is a white nationalist conspiracy theory. And white nationalism is not a harmless ideology. It is not simply promoting whiteness, defending whiteness. It is exclusive. It is inherently genocidal. The vice president talking about that as the Secretary of Defense is eliminating religious freedom in the world's largest department, the world's largest employer. We've entered fascism. Like we're marching towards it.
- [28:07]
Luke
I'll put it. I'll put my. As you. I agree with a lot of that. I'll summate what I'm saying very simply. I think they've made a product that you've described perfectly that has reached its market saturation point. I don't think that they can bring in new people. I think that they've made it a very destructive product because all the things you guys are talking about and upset about are worth being upset about and worth talking about. There's no question. What I'm saying is I think they've reached a point of saturation where they're not bringing in enough new people to push it forward. And yes, they have power and they function. They can do all these things. But in the end, what I believe in more than their ability to access and use their power is the structures of America that are not ever going to be changed. Like, we're going to have elections in 2026 and they're going to lose the House and their functional power is going to drop significantly. Things like that I refuse to believe will ever go away.
- [28:55]
Tim
I mean, I think that's a fair. That's a, That's a fair statement. And I think we have seen that, you know, his numbers are horrible. Right? Horrible. But they're still, you know, I mean, we're all used to this. Like, we all say that the 30, the mid-30s is like him being. Doing bad. That's still a hundred million Americans. Oh, it's horrible, right? Like, it's horrible. And I, and the people. The thing is, I think, like, I do think without him as their. I don't know, they're really their God, right. They. They follow him more than. Yeah. The Christian God, it's going to be harder for them. Right. But I, you know, I think it, I do think, like, there's. Both things are true. Right. I think that it could be that they're at that point, but some of that's also because people have started to fight and they're starting to get a different narrative. Right. But, you know, that thing with the military, too, is also, like, they've gone after. Both trans people have now been banned from the military and they've even gone after descendants with all these things. It's very, very clear. And I know you're. I know you're not.
- [29:53]
Luke
No, I'm not. I'm not disputing any of that, nor am I defending any of it. You know, it's. No, I mean, look, the way I look at it is the only reason that I look at this. Well, not the only reason, but one of the primary reasons I look at this and go, I also don't think this could. Is Donald Trump is not an effective doer. He's a very effective communicator, but he's not a good. He doesn't put things into power. I'd be much more concerned if J.D. vance was president because he would be far more effective at implementing what they want to implement. But Trump just doesn't give a fuck. Like, in the end, Trump gives a fuck about Trump. He doesn't want to do all this stuff. He, all these people around him wants to do this shit. He just wants the power and the fucking glory and to tweet about it. That's, you know, but it's like I root for Trump to live. Like, that's really, like, for me, it's like the worst thing that could happen is J.D. vance becoming president because he's smart and he can function well enough.
- [30:36]
Tim
And a mix of, of him and Susie Wiles together, Trump's chief of staff would be terrifying because that woman does know how to get stuff done. I mean, we talked about her last week, but like, the reason that she's still there is because Trump loves her, because he is implementing things that. Or she's implementing things he wants her to do and she's absolutely, he's enamored with her. So, yeah, I think, But I do think the Vance stuff that he said at, at Turning Points is just nuts. I mean, raise your hand if anyone has ever asked you to apologize for being white.
- [31:04]
Erica
There were some crazy.
- [31:05]
Tim
I live in a very liberal place. You would think if anybody was like, according to them, right.
- [31:09]
Zach
I attended Columbia University and it didn't even happen there.
- [31:13]
Tim
Right. It's just ridiculous. But I just like, that's another question though, guys. Like, you know, is it, is it a saturation point or are we turning some folk, are we waking some folks up? What do we think? Because obviously he has, he has plummeted in the polls and all these elections point to, you know, I would argue a, either a very large wave or even potentially a tsunami in November of 2026. But like, is it just that, like, they have gone as far as they can, or we are pushing poll as.
- [31:43]
Erica
Far as I can fucking throw.
- [31:45]
Zach
Current saturation point. But that the saturation point is, is growing, it is growing larger as they consolidate media, as they consolidate social media and traditional media as, as they grow in non traditional media, as Bari Weiss did with the Free Press and her substack. I, I think that the baseline for what is acceptable or the Overton window of what is acceptable is sliding right? And it's sliding right faster than any of us, you know, really anticipated or, or thought was possible. And I, I think as a threat analyst that it's. There's still plenty of room for that Overton window to keep moving, keep rolling, and for more people to think that policies that we currently view as extreme to, to view them as acceptable as not just debatable, but as acceptable once they're implemented.
- [32:50]
Luke
I agree with that. And I also think that you're right. It's like, say, non traditional media is probably the way that's permeating the fastest. And that to me is the scariest part of it, where you don't have a diet of balance. You have a diet or the other. The only reason I get like a little less concerned about it is because everybody who's existing in that space is usually already siloed into one echo chamber or the other. So, like, it's not a lot of Conversion going on. But I agree, like, it does. The conversion does happen. But I think the primary driver of what creates conversion on the other side of us coming back and gaining ground is just how far bad these guys aren't at legislating and creating programs for regular people. And, like, a lot of the people that get converted are people who are getting right now. And, like, they, At a certain point, their health insurance costing twice what it used to is going to matter more than a video they saw on Tik Tok. And. And I. I think that is a. To answer your question, Tim, I think that's a piece of what we're seeing.
- [33:41]
Tim
Yeah, I mean, I. I agree with all of that, and I think that they are terrible legislators. I mean, not even. Not even, like. I mean, the things that, like, all they seem to be able to pass is tax cuts for rich people and then screw poor people along the way. But in this particular instance, there's, like, no one else to blame. It's, like, squarely on just them. Squarely on them. So, I mean, to summarize this, Find out media is going to solve all of this by all of you subscribing and listening to us and building us up as big as those guys. So we will, you know, we will be able to defeat them. But speaking of defeat, ready for.
- [34:13]
Erica
These are good.
- [34:14]
Zach
This was a good pivot. This is a very good one.
- [34:16]
Tim
Thank you.
- [34:17]
Luke
Oh, yes, defeat.
- [34:18]
Tim
This weekend, there were two boxing matches. Now, you never hear me talk about boxing matches, but I'm going to talk about these two because you guys will love this, too. So on in one, there was Jake Paul, fought for really, like, the first time, actual somebody his age and relative weight class and everything, and got the shit, living shit beat out of him. Like, he actually got his jaw broken by one of the. I guess that was a left hook straight to the jaw. And there's even a photo online. It's super gross, so you may not want to see it where you can actually see the teeth separate in his jaw because it's so broken. And so he got the ship out of him. But actually, what's even better is that Andrew Tate also had a boxing match, which I didn't even know he did this, and he got destroyed. Like, these clips. I have watched these clips so many times, and I don't even like boxing. I think it's barbaric. It's also, like, all fixed. It's not real. Like, you know, that whole Jake Paul Tyson thing was such a joke. But these man, like, oh, the Thing.
- [35:21]
Zach
That is going to hurt them the most are the stills on their knees, their face in the groin of their opponent. Those, those images for both of those fucking losers are, are going to haunt them and they're going to have nightmares. And that is the part that I enjoy the most. Oh yeah, the violence is great. Like, I want those people to feel physical pain and for them to be embarrassed, but those images are the most powerful and most lasting personally and professionally to them.
- [35:54]
Tim
Yeah, I mean, and that's, that's actually an interesting, it's an interesting point because, you know, these guys are, I don't know if I want to say heroes, but like, they have a very large audience of, you know, super bros, basically, and kids who don't know any better. And I am curious if them both being humiliated on a, on a big stage will dent their sort of cred of like, I am what it, you know, this story they tell about. I am a masculine man and this is how you, a man should act. And then they're, you know, the beat out of them when they finally fight somebody that's, you know, in their age group or, you know, weight class, whatever.
- [36:36]
Erica
I saw somebody that called Jake Paul a conservative's idea of what a DEI hire is and that made me fucking piss myself.
- [36:45]
Zach
So I, the effect I don't think will be immediate.
- [36:48]
Tim
Yeah.
- [36:48]
Zach
But what this is going to do is it is going to make it so that neither of them. And I don't know about Jake Paul really. I think I remember him from doing splits on YouTube in like 2007.
- [37:00]
Tim
Is that him or his brother? Because there's two of them.
- [37:02]
Zach
I don't, I don't know, like, do splits and they were doing it and that's like the only video I've ever seen of this guy. But their losses are going to limit the podcasts that they can go on because they cannot ever go on a podcast where the host is going to talk about their loss. So they have to stay at, at least for a while in the friendly podcast zone, only they can't go outside. And that, that is where they actually build an audience because it's. The audience doesn't seek them out. The audience gets introduced to them through, you know, the Joe Rogans and the, you know, the other contrarian idiots. That is how they get platformed. So, so their avenues for recruitment are at least temporarily shut down.
- [37:55]
Tim
That's a good point. I hadn't even really thought about that. And it is true. I, I also think that it, it just, it's Another reminder that mockery is probably the most powerful weapon we have against these guys. I mean it's sort of like this Riley Gaines, right? This is a woman who, you know, she competed against a trans swimmer, female swimmer and she lost, but she came in fifth place. So even without the, without the, the trans swimmer, she still wouldn't have, wouldn't have meddled. She still would have lost. So like, and he's. And now she's turned this into this whole right wing grift machine.
- [38:29]
Erica
Do you see her at Turning Point?
- [38:31]
Tim
I saw a bit of it, but what did she. She was all about.
- [38:35]
Erica
We live in a country where it's brave to stand up and say that there's two genders.
- [38:39]
Tim
Like what? What?
- [38:41]
Erica
But eat a bag of shit.
- [38:44]
Zach
It's, it's not brave, but it is insanely profitable. Yes, it is insanely profitable.
- [38:49]
Tim
I mean she is.
- [38:50]
Zach
If, if any one of us were to just, to just do that, we could market ourselves as the former Democrat, the former liberal who saw the light and started hating trans people and.
- [39:04]
Erica
But you can make a million dollars minimum.
- [39:06]
Zach
Oh, like very quickly.
- [39:09]
Tim
This is what Candace Owens did. People don't, don't know this but like when she started her like online journey, she was progressive. She pushed a progressive message. And do you want to know why she switched to the right? Because it's more profitable. All about the cash. And now she is like completely insane and like saying all of this insane anti semitic stuff. There's this whole. Which we can get into another time but like this whole right wing war. Her versus Ben Shapiro and then her versus Turning Points and then like versus Erica and then she versus Erica. Charlie Kirk, widow to the point where Candace had told her audience that she was meeting with Erica to smooth things over and her audience thought that they were. That Erica and the turning points people were going to kill her. Like they actually believed that people crazy. And she had to come out and be like, I'm still alive. And it's like what? Like. And these people believe it. So like, yeah, I mean like the, the Tates of the world and the Jake Paul's. I mean Jake Paul's a little bit different. He's not quite the like horrible he has. I don't think he's broken the law. Like, like, like Andrew Tate has, but still like pushes a MAGA agenda and supports the President, but like that. You're right. They have to go outside of their echo chambers or they don't grow. And if all this weekend was on social media was those two guys getting the shit beat out of them and everybody making fun of them.
- [40:30]
Zach
Well, there, there is another leopards eating faces thing that happened this weekend and that was that Ben Shapiro at, at Turning Point usa. He was one of the earlier guests because he's falling down on the rung of importance. Wasn't a headliner. He went out and called out all of these conspiracy theorists and right wing talk show hosts like Tucker Carlson, who, who was a headliner who did speak after him for platforming. For platforming neo Nazis like Nick Fuentes.
- [41:04]
Erica
And he also dropped the arsler.
- [41:05]
Zach
And right now we are watching as Turning Point usa, which you know, JD Vance has great relationship with and is going to support. Erica Kirk is going to, you know, motivate high school students to come out in support of J.D. vance. Right. That is what is going to happen in a few years.
- [41:26]
Tim
Yep.
- [41:28]
Zach
We're existing in a point where that same political machine is having a debate right now as to whether or not it's okay to platform neo Nazis. And that side that is platforming Nazis is winning. Ben Shapiro is losing.
- [41:49]
Tim
Yes.
- [41:50]
Zach
Like the, the leopard is eating his face and he is no longer going to be relevant in this movement pretty soon.
- [41:58]
Tim
And what's wild.
- [41:59]
Zach
And it's not a good thing though because it means the Nazis are winning. The Nazis are taking over. Apart.
- [42:04]
Tim
I don't, I don't necessarily feel bad for Ben and I'm not suggesting you are either. But like he also helped to make this happen was one of those Pandora's.
- [42:12]
Erica
Yeah, it's a well, well, well moment.
- [42:14]
Tim
Yeah. And it's like, well, you know, like you didn't, you could have said something 10 years ago and you didn't and you got all on board on Trump in 2020 and all this shit. Like he, he bears as much responsibility for this growth. And now he's trying to like act like he's the like, oh, whoa, whoa, this is just too crazy. And it's like, dude, you, you have been like platforming these idiots forever. Like, stop. Like, you know, and then it's also, I do enjoy because there are videos of Ben anytime he actually debates somebody that has a brain and they completely pants him. So like, I do enjoy that stuff with him. But like he, yeah, it's, it's too late, buddy. Like you've made all your money off these people and now you don't like what you've created. Yeah, now of course he can. He doesn't have to do anything versus life. He's got tens of millions of dollars and he will Be fine. But. Yeah, it is.
- [43:06]
Zach
He would be, but he. The worst thing in the world to him is being irrelevant. Like, the money is great, but he wants to be relevant.
- [43:13]
Tim
Right. I don't, I don't think that's. I mean, we'll see. I mean, I think we're gonna see a really interesting. I mean, I also thought was interesting. They endorse. She endorsed it. Didn't say 28. Because, of course, they can't say that Donald Trump can't run for a third term. You know, another one of these defenders, democracy, who want him to run for a third term. But I'm really, it's really going to be interesting to me to see what happens over the next year as candidates start talking about running and what Donald Trump's going to do because it's going to take attention away from him. He's going to lose his fucking mind.
- [43:42]
Zach
So, yeah, I can't wait for Republicans to start talking about a primary like, oh, I know. Remember Ron Desantis? Fox News lined up behind Ron DeSantis.
- [43:52]
Luke
They were, they were.
- [43:53]
Zach
They threw their full weight behind him. That guy was. Was a guest more often than any other potential candidate for a reason. Rupert Murdoch wanted him to be the next president. And even Rupert Murdoch and his giant machine couldn't stop Donald Trump from completely dismantling. And by then, you know, Donald Trump was already, you know, very clearly becoming senile. Was very much not the. The energetic, you know, performer that he was back in 2016. He could just use raw hate and, and that was enough to. To run over a relatively popular piece of governor.
- [44:35]
Tim
Yeah, they even gave him shoes with lifts in it so he didn't look so tiny.
- [44:39]
Zach
Yep.
- [44:39]
Tim
I do like that. He's like 5 4. He hates it so much. You know, another one of these, you know, these guys, they act all tough and it's all like. He's got like the Napoleon complex. But anyways, well, let's end on a happy note, guys, because it's almost Christmas and I know that, you know, according to Chrysler Fox News, we're supposed to be against Christmas, but I think we all, we all celebrate it. So, you know, I think for me, I want to. I mean, this is the wrap of our year. I guess we're doing another episode. Maybe I shouldn't do our year wrap until next week because we got one more to go. And it's also too late to, you know, you know, actually, if you've forgotten, Christmas is on Thursday and you're in deep trouble. You know, you could do you get some merch at the find out store.
- [45:26]
Zach
Yeah, it'll be a little late.
- [45:27]
Erica
It shows up late, but pretty good.
- [45:29]
Tim
But look, you know what? You know what's the best thing ever is if for some reason, you know, Christmas Day, you tore through the presents and everything and you're like, oh, man, Christmas is over. And you're. It's like a letdown. And then you see that one pack package that everybody forgot in the back and everyone gets excited. You open it. That's what you could do with this, Birch.
- [45:46]
Zach
You could always ship it directly to your intended recipient and just be like, I ordered it weeks ago. And I don't. You know, fee is actually great. They.
- [45:55]
Tim
Yeah, I don't. Yeah, we're not gonna throw them onto the bus, but. Yeah, but.
- [45:58]
Zach
But your. Your intended recipient USPS that fee could be screwed up. Yeah. And you just say, oh, I ordered it so long. And. And these shirts are so popular that there was a huge backlog and they just couldn't get it out in time because. Find out. Such a popular podcast, everyone wants their shirts and that's why you're getting one for Christmas.
- [46:17]
Tim
This is a popular one, I think too late here. But yeah, it doesn't even have to be Christmas. You know what? Like, you could celebrate whatever after, you know, the week, the week between Christmas and New Year's where nobody knows what time it is or what day it is or what year it is. Like, you know, a nice union printed Made in the USA T shirt could just be the thing that the. The doctor ordered for those winter blues.
- [46:41]
Zach
And you know what? While. While people are missing out on our two episodes that we're not going to make over the next couple of weeks, they can check out my other podcast, the Honesty Podcast on the Valor Media Network. The first episode with Tad Sturmer is great. He's very intentional. He is an army veteran. He is a resistance historian. And I really wanted that episode and this historian to kind of set the tone for what this show is all about. As. As dark as I am and as dark as my show is, is going to be, that's. That's my role here, right? It's to be the bad news fairy. I wouldn't be in this fight if I didn't believe that we could still win. And that is what this entire show is about. The. The second episode, I had Ken Casey with Drop Kick from Drop Kick Murphy's. That show has over 40,000 views on YouTube now, which is absolutely tremendous. Then we've got Harry Dunn. We've Got General Honore after that. And the next episode that's coming up after Christmas is with Jonathan Katz, who we have. We've done a live with before. People.
- [47:53]
Tim
That's right.
- [47:54]
Zach
Have met him that way. And we talk about the echoes of history with the gunboat diplomacy that America did 100 years ago in. In Latin America and what kind of blowback we can expect from the things that are happening today because the scars of that history are all over Latin America and Asia and other parts of the world from a hundred years ago. It still shapes the way that people live all, all over the world. And, you know, sometimes people rightfully hold grudges and Americans in future generations have to pay for that.
- [48:39]
Tim
So where can they find this Chris?
- [48:42]
Zach
So they can find On Offense anywhere that you listen to podcasts on YouTube. It is with the Valor Media Network. So if you just look for Valor Media network on. On YouTube, it'll be right there. It's a weekly show, so not as often as. As the Find out podcast. It's a little darker. I'm going to, you know, be fully transparent, but every single show, I end by asking my guest how real people can go on offense for a democracy. And, and if. If I ever have a guest who doesn't give me a good answer, I'm not going to air the episode. So I promise we always end on a good note.
- [49:23]
Tim
Well, it might be dark, but you know what else it is? It's entertaining. You should check it out. Go check out On Offense, the Valor Media Network. And if you got plenty of time, go back and watch our old episodes too. You know, they're still entertaining.
- [49:37]
Zach
See how well they. They.
- [49:38]
Tim
Yeah. Do they age? Did we. Did we actually know what we were talking about?
- [49:41]
Zach
Actually see how many predictions we made that were terribly wrong or.
- [49:44]
Luke
I don't know if.
- [49:44]
Tim
I don't know if I want. I don't know if I want anyone doing that. A little afraid. I can't. I can't remember yesterday. So I can't. I think 70 episodes. I'm like, oh, God. So we're going to see a super cut someday of our worst takes. Somebody's going to put online. But. But you know what, guys?
- [49:57]
Erica
I think that's good.
- [49:58]
Tim
I think we ended on a nice note. Check out that merchandise@findout podcast.com. you can also get a subscription to to find out podcast at Substack, which is find out podcast.substack.com also go subscribe to our YouTube channel, which is very, very important for us. And for now, you know, I'm gonna blow up Fox News's narrative and say Merry Christmas to those of you who celebrate. And happy holidays to the youth that don't.
- [50:28]
Zach
And that's okay, too.
- [50:29]
Tim
We don't care.
- [50:30]
Zach
In a belated Happy Hanukkah.
- [50:32]
Tim
A belated happy. Yes, yes.
- [50:33]
Erica
And an early Happy Hanukkah.
- [50:35]
Tim
Current. Currently, right?
- [50:36]
Zach
Is it current? I don't know. We ran out of candles, so we stopped with the menorah a few days ago. So we. So I've lost count. I don't know.
- [50:45]
Tim
I don't. I. I don't know. Anyways, either Happy Current Hanukkah or Happy Press Hanukkah. And we'll be back next week. One episode and then we'll wrap up the year. We'll have to do some, like, you know, look backs next. Next week on, you know, good things that happen. We got to focus on some good things because there's a lot of bad that happened this year, don't get me wrong. But there were also some good things, too, and some hope as we're going into 2026. So with that, thank you, guys. Thank you, everyone, for listening. Have a wonderful holiday season. Merry Christmas, and we'll see you next Tuesday. Bye, guys.