Rich (3:57)

Let's just see one big troll. That's the other thing.

Zach (4:01)

I still think the craziest fucking cope I've seen about it on the Internet is maybe Donald Trump did a child, but we as Christians should forgive him. I, I, I was speechless and I've seen it.

Rich (4:13)

I, I'm surprising at all.

Chris (4:15)

But this is what, it's shocking but not surprising, right?

Rich (4:17)

No, yeah, this is what they do, man. I mean, like, I don't know to me, like, I really do. Like, I know for a lot of people it's not, but for a lot of people, they just enjoy the trolling element of this. Like, they really love the fact that they're just like, well, you know, I know it's a pedophile thing, so let's put a pedophile up there. Like they're deep down, a lot of the, especially the men that go along with this, they just think it's funny. Like, they just don't get the seriousness of it. Like, there's definitely people who want Matt Gates in there because they're horrendous. But the right has become like a army of trolls. That's what they are. And this is nothing more than the troll in my mind.

Chris (4:47)

Yeah, it's owning the libs, right? I mean, sometimes you see this and you can even see this when you're arguing with your friends on Facebook or wherever about this. Right. Like, a lot of times they just want to see the left suffer or complain or cry or whatever it is. And that is their like political ethos. And it's a really weird thing, but I think it goes, goes to a deeper problem where I think they, they align liberals and progressives with elites and their lot in life. And so they're just like, I just want to tear it all down.

Rich (5:19)

Yeah.

Chris (5:19)

But it is really, really fascinating, Chris, as you said, that, like, they want to put a, you know, I guess I have to say, alleged pedophile in charge of investigating other alleged pedophiles, which.

Zach (5:34)

Nothing could go wrong there.

Chris (5:36)

Seems like a bit of a conflict of interest to me, but. But it does. Trump's not winning this messaging war right now.

Rich (5:43)

No.

Chris (5:43)

Like, he's in a lot of trouble, I think.

Rich (5:45)

I mean, like, so let's think about it. Do we think that the list exists and he's on it, or do we think that maybe they made this shit up and now they're scrambling because they can't get out of it? Because if I'm Trump and I have the Epstein list, all I would do is go, yeah, I'll really sit and redact myself from it. The end. Like, that's it.

Chris (6:05)

Yeah, but is there one black Sharpie space? One name? Well, you know, you could do it.

Rich (6:10)

Artfully, but, like, you know, if I'm Trump, he just, this is his game. Like this. He does this shit all the time. Why would this be any different? Like, that's why I'm sitting here a little skeptical. Like, why is he not doing that? And I imagine that the truth is if he's on the list, that it's about, oh, there's somebody else who would come out that would out me as.

Luke (6:25)

Being on the list, maybe.

Rich (6:27)

But, like, even then, all he's got to do is go, they're full of shit. And everybody go, yeah, you're full of shit. And that's it. Like, he's gotten away with lies a trillion times. Why not this time? That's what.

Zach (6:34)

Well, did you see that they. That Ghislaine Maxwell is willing to testify in front of Congress?

Rich (6:40)

I didn't see that.

Zach (6:41)

Yeah, she's willing to testify as to what the content of the list is or like, frequent clients were. And.

Luke (6:49)

Yeah, my prediction is she's angling for a pardon.

Zach (6:53)

Yeah, she's angling for a fucking pardon. That was where I was going with it.

Chris (6:56)

100. She's got a 20, 20 year sentence, right?

Zach (6:59)

Yeah. Coincidentally, she's going to come up and say, everybody except Trump.

Chris (7:03)

And then right fucking six months later.

Zach (7:05)

There'Ll be a pardon involved.

Rich (7:07)

Yeah. I don't know, it just seems like there's ways to wiggle out and he's just not doing it. I'm like, why is he not doing this?

Chris (7:12)

It's just, that's why I, I mean, I don't know, obviously. I mean, there was a vote in Congress yesterday and every, and there was a vote to release the Epstein list. Every single Republican voted no and every single. Or maybe one. I know Tom Massey is working on a bill with Rona right now for an Epstein list, so maybe they're waiting for that. But pretty much almost all Republicans voted against it and all Democrats voted for it. But I didn't hear a lot of, like, it exists or it doesn't exist. And I don't know the answer to that. I mean, Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, said she had it on her desk.

Rich (7:43)

Right.

Chris (7:44)

But I, I tend to think that it doesn't exist because Trump is, if anything, he's a survivor. And that is a really dangerous game to be playing because what would have precluded somebody, you know, in the Biden administration, for example, for releasing it.

Rich (8:03)

Exactly.

Chris (8:03)

To show, I mean, why wouldn't they have done that? And why wouldn't you have, you know, had transparency around a pedophile sex ring? But, but I think he, I, I don't know. There's obviously names that haven't been talked about because there's testimony that's been behind closed doors.

Rich (8:18)

Right.

Chris (8:18)

But it seems to me he's just gotten caught and potentially got caught in a lie and he doesn't know how to tell them that he lied to them for their votes.

Rich (8:26)

I think the, like, I thought the same thing. I was like, why didn't somebody in the Biden administration do it? But then you get into like, well, Bill Clinton's probably on the list and there's a bunch of like, high value Democrats that will also be. So, like, it's like, that's probably why. But I don't know. I mean, I'm, Yeah, I really don't know. It's, it's one of those things where, like, the murkiness is really annoying and I just want to know what the truth is.

Luke (8:45)

I, I don't think there's a list. I, I think that, you know, it, what the biggest problem for Trump here is this is the type of thing that breaks people's faith. Like, yeah, when you believe that some, when you believe that God exists and you believe it and it becomes part of your, your personality and who you are and how you live. Right. That's what this idea that Democrats are pedophiles dating back to the Pizzagate conspiracy theories, you know, amplified by alt right figures like Jack Boic, you know, from the emails that were hacked from, from Anthony Weiner, you know, back in 2015, 2016. Right. This is 10 years of, of conspiracy theories based on the idea that children are being victimized and that there's a massive cabal of, of evil people. Again, they've been promoting the idea that it's all Democrats, right? That they've been, you know, predators towards children and that this is the thing, this is what, you know, the prophets have been saying is going to happen, that Donald Trump is going, you know, they believe this is all godlike stuff, right? The whole QAnon thing, it's as much of a cult as it is anything. They believe that like there is this divine prophecy that Donald Trump is going to come and, and blow this whole thing up. And for this thing to not exist, it is going to break their spirits. And that's not like, I don't want to oversimplify it and make, make it sound like, oh, maga's just going to walk away from Trump. Like I said last episode, I think, you know, they're going to pay attention to ICE raids instead.

Chris (10:29)

But this will get at the core.

Luke (10:31)

Of who they are as people and this will like up their belief systems in all sorts of aspects of their lives. It's going to go far beyond like the ped. Pedophilia obsession that they've had for a decade.

Chris (10:44)

I, I think it's right. And part of it, this is the double edged sword of having your own information apparatus and that they've pumped in some so much bullshit and everybody from Charlie Kirk to Ben Shapiro to Bannon and all of these guys have been talking Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein. Even people that I knew growing up that are not politically inclined know about the Jeffrey Epstein list. Like they are captivated by it because again, as you said, Chris, like it plays into this narrative that the elites are out to get them. But all of a sudden in the last week, many of them, as we, as Luke, you pointed out, have stopped talking about it. You know, Charlie Kirk says, I'm going to trust not the people in the government that I know, my friends, my.

Zach (11:27)

Friends, that very specific verbiage. And he said he had a phone call with Trump.

Chris (11:33)

Yeah, yeah, right, yeah. And the thing is, but like the, the challenge is that this is one of their core, like you said, their core values, which is a weird thing to have as a core value, but they do. And then all of a sudden it turns out that this rich billionaire has been lying to them and manipulating them for A decade. And that is a. I don't think it breaks all of them, but if you lose 10, 20% of the mega base, you don't win anymore.

Rich (11:59)

No, you're done at that point. But, like, I guess the question I have is like, kind of go back to QAnon. Because QAnon has made a million different estimations of what was going to happen, and it was almost always wrong and it was almost always disproven, and they always found a way to make it.

Zach (12:15)

Not a problem, squirrel out of it.

Rich (12:16)

Yeah, right. So, like, why is this any different? That's. I guess my main question is, like, they just. That's their M.O. like, when they hit a wall with their theories and the truth shows up, they go, well, let's just take a left turn around and find another wall to hit later down the line. Like, they don't just lay there and play dead, you know.

Luke (12:31)

That's a very good question. So the, so the, the idea again, going back to this being like a prophecy type of thing back in the day, this mysterious figure would drop what they would call Q drops. It would be like these coded messages that could mean fucking anything. It was like Nostradamus in your tabloid newspaper when that. I don't know if that's even still a thing. Right. It was just like, you could read anything into this crazy rambling. And when people made predictions, it was these like, QAnon influencers were, you know, yoga moms and, and who got radicalized during COVID Right. They were like kind of nobodies, kind of people who came out of nowhere. Like people who build and built an audience in the QAnon world, but prior to that had never had a public platform. With a few exceptions. There are guys like General Flynn, again, who I'm Facebook friends with because he's a fucking moron. He is writing the longest missives right now. Like directly talking to Donald Trump basically, in so many words, is saying, like, Flynn has, has put himself on the line here. He has been. He's. He's not anonymous Q. Right. He has been the guy who's been hosting these QAnon conferences. He's been the guy that QAnon has believed is. Is like this Christ like figure who, who comes and. And, you know, raises an army for the end times. Right? He's. And again, Flynn is this weird fucking religious figure, both in the QAnon movement and in his own fucking head.

Chris (14:10)

Yeah.

Luke (14:10)

Flynn doesn't know how to react other than to beg Trump to release the list. And Flynn is still communicating to his followers the most die hard of the QAnon. You know, few tens of thousands of people at this point are, are like really clued into everything that General Flynn says and, and he knows like his reputation is on the line too. He loses all of the grifting power if, if no one believes in the Jeffrey Epstein anymore. Like Flynn loses credibility. Not just Trump.

Chris (14:45)

I think the religious comparison is, is the right one. And Zach, you're asking like why I. This isn't going to be perfect, but I'm going to try this here. But you know, the Epstein list and the Epstein lore is kind of like the ver is kind of like the Bible of, of that alt right crew. Yeah, it's the core. So like, you know, religious people have said that there's, you know, that the Bible is against gay marriage. Of course it's not those things they can kind of dismiss. Right. The edge things. But if you basically said that the Bible was just, was fake, it would rock Christianity to its core. And I think that it, that's obviously a more severe case. But I think for these guys like that the it. It QAnon has all been based on this, this mythical elites and cabals plotting against regular people to keep them down. And then if you eliminate the core of that then like it's not just pulling on a string, the whole ball of yarn kind of comes out because then it's like if we don't have the base belief, then what are we doing here? Which is of course grifting. As, as Chris said, like these guys are taking advantage of people who are desperate for a narrative around why their lives are the way they are. And it's much easier for to go after those people, be like, you know, subscribe to my this for 15amonth and I'll send you all of the, you know, the, the deal from a two star general, whatever he was. And it's a very powerful narrative for people who are looking for an answer that they don't have. And I think that that's starting to blow up in their faces a lot later than it should have. But.

Rich (16:19)

Right. You know, I'm still confused too about how these people didn't think that Trump was on the list when the connection to Epstein was so public. Like it wasn't like we're making it up. There's videos and pictures and he knew it. Like all this was AI.

Zach (16:34)

It's AI idiot.

Rich (16:35)

But like I, that's the thing, I don't like all this doesn't make sense. Like I Guess it's because I'm so. Just not one of those people. So I like their psychology just is so confusing to me. But all of this combined makes no sense to me. And it's like watching it fall apart. I think the funny part is that, like, it makes no sense watching it fall apart too. Like, the whole thing is just this big confusing cluster.

Chris (16:54)

Wait, are you. Wait, are you saying that it is ridiculous to suggest that John F. Kennedy Jr. Has been in hiding all of this time and he essentially did a 180 on all of his political beliefs. Clearly had the worst plastic surgery that anybody has ever had in history because the guy who runs around proclaiming to be him looks absolutely nothing like him. He's not even the same fucking height. And they are like. And he goes to these events. Like, so you have to. You have to put in that perspective. But your answer, the answer, and this, I am going to call it genius. But maybe it's lucky of Donald Trump is that he managed to tell his entire base that everything that the media says is fake.

Luke (17:35)

Yeah.

Chris (17:36)

So then none of that is real. They just deflect like, oh, those photos with Epstein are doctored, or, oh, those are at some random fancy event and it was just a photo op that they don't believe anything that is said about him.

Rich (17:51)

Yeah.

Zach (17:51)

Okay, so question.

Rich (17:52)

Yeah.

Zach (17:53)

Suppose the Epstein list is real. Who on, like, who would be a person that would be on it? That would shock you to your core, because I've got one that. So Stephen King has been off Twitter for, like, years.

Chris (18:09)

But in the last.

Zach (18:10)

Author Stephen King, proud anti Trumper. But in the last.

Chris (18:14)

And Maynard.

Zach (18:15)

Yeah, and Mayor. In the last two months, he's gotten active again on Twitter doing like, primarily trolling, but. But so two days ago he made a tweet that said, yes, the Epstein list is real. Just as real as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

Chris (18:29)

I saw that.

Zach (18:30)

Kind of an odd thing to say. And then he doubled down on it yesterday and was like, boy, I really triggered some people with that Epstein thing. And then there's some other second part to it, but it was like, if he's on that list, it will ruin him for me forever. I've read every book he's ever written. It's great. But that would ruin him for me.

Rich (18:47)

I mean, that's really it, though. Like the, like, the collateral damage of the list, I think, is the reason why there's all this murkiness around it. Why if it does exist, the Biden administration did nothing with it and why the Trump administration really can't do anything with it. There's just. There's. It's not like. Because it's not like they set it up where it's all these Democrats. It's just one chunk of types of.

Zach (19:04)

It'S all fucking nuclear option.

Rich (19:06)

Right. It really is. And it's just like so dangerous to do this.

Chris (19:09)

I got two. I got two. The first is Mr. Rogers. That would be awful if that. If he is on the list. I don't really want to go on.

Zach (19:21)

Millions of childs childhoods are ruined.

Chris (19:23)

Yeah. All the amazing stories. Like even in this. In the late 60s, early 70s, he had an episode where he and a. A black police officer put their feet in the pool together. Like all this stuff. Like he's just an amazing human being. Right. So like of course he's not. But like it would be crazy. The other one, Tom Hanks.

Zach (19:40)

Oh, Tom Hanks is up there for me too. That would ruin him for me.

Chris (19:44)

That would be. That would be bad.

Rich (19:46)

I love Tom.

Luke (19:46)

I mean, I don't know how to answer this hypothetical. Anyone who's on the list.

Zach (19:55)

Amazing. Somebody you look up to.

Rich (19:57)

Oh, man. I have one.

Zach (19:59)

Yeah, that'll be bad.

Rich (20:01)

100.

Chris (20:02)

Zach, what about you?

Rich (20:03)

I got nobody, man. I don't know.

Zach (20:05)

Doesn't have any pure role models. He thinks everyone's fucked up. It's the Republican in him.

Rich (20:09)

Yeah. I really.

Chris (20:11)

Another one that would be bad is. This is going back a little ways, but Paul McCartney. That would be bad.

Rich (20:16)

That'd be bad.

Chris (20:17)

Yeah. Pretty pure. I mean, for the. One of the most famous people in the world is like generally considered one of the nicest too. So that would. That'd be bad. Mr. Rogers. I should probably just stick with Mr.

Zach (20:26)

Rogers because Sam Jackson is on there for me too.

Chris (20:28)

Oh, yeah.

Zach (20:30)

I would be sad.

Rich (20:31)

That would be sad.

Luke (20:32)

He's got a history of planes.

Chris (20:37)

Sequel. Oh, God. I actually, by the way, I saw that movie in the theater and when it came. Because this is Snakes on a Plane for those who don't know. And it's a horrible movie, but like the marketing around it was so genius because they just leaned into the terrible. And I watched it in Boston and it was like an event. People were just like screaming and yelling. It was just really funny to do. So. Yeah. When you have a pile of shit movie, do that and you lean into a better chance.

Zach (21:02)

You have to lean into it.

Chris (21:03)

Yeah.

Rich (21:03)

I think that was the point for the beginning. I mean it's pretty smart.

Chris (21:06)

So. Yeah.

Luke (21:06)

So on a. On a serious note, Let, let's kind of talk about why this whole conspiracy theory grew and why the right uses it. If, if you poll Democrats, if you poll progressives, people who are against the death penalty, what do they think should happen to convicted pedophiles? There is a spike in, in people being like, I am very against the death penalty, but. Right, right. So there is this, there is this recognition among these propagandists that the idea of pedophilia evokes really, really strong emotions, anger primarily, and, and the desire to protect the innocent.

Rich (21:57)

Right.

Luke (21:59)

So this whole thing has been deliberately used precisely because the, the propagandists understand that it's, it's going to break into not just the Republicans, it's going to break into other people too. That's why the Epstein list is, is not just something. There are a thousand conspiracy theories that none of you will ever hear of because you don't spend your time in the, you know, the right wing circles that I have to.

Zach (22:26)

For special episode Chris teaches us all about the craziest.

Rich (22:29)

That would be fun. I would love that.

Luke (22:30)

This is the one. This is the conspiracy theory that like really, really gets over there. And, and it has attracted a lot of legitimate attention. I mean that's why we're, it's on national news everywhere and, and full disclosure for our listeners. One of the reasons that we decided to talk about Epstein today is because we saw a 30% increase in this, this past episode in, in terms of engagement people on. And we, we don't have MAGA listeners. People want to hear about this because they don't. It doesn't matter what their politics are. What Epstein did was something that offends all of our humanity and we're all angry about it.

Rich (23:12)

Yeah.

Luke (23:12)

And we want something to be done about it.

Rich (23:14)

Yeah. I think they also are watching because they want to watch Trump fall apart.

Luke (23:18)

Yeah. And it has the added bonus for us where at this point, you know, the, the victims are, are safe from the primary predator and nothing but good things can happen in terms of justice being met it out as, as more, as more information is released. So but I wanted to like really crystallize this thing that like the idea that there are pedophiles makes people violent.

Chris (23:44)

Yes.

Luke (23:45)

And, and that is, that is like something that is worrisome. That is something.

Chris (23:50)

Yeah.

Luke (23:50)

That has been used like a cudgel by Trump and his people for a decade.

Rich (23:55)

Yeah.

Luke (23:55)

And now they're finding that, that, oh, this shit bounces back.

Rich (23:59)

We're about to hit, I mean, pedophilic even when you're a, when you're a pedophile and you go to prison, like, you're instantly like the shittiest person in the prison. Like, it's across that you go to the bottom rung of society. Even they are at the bottom rung of the bottom rung. So no question.

Chris (24:13)

Well, I think the other part about the, the bump in, in viewers, which thank you very much for listening also.

Zach (24:18)

Thank you very much.

Chris (24:19)

Yes. Is that people there have been so, because this is such a clickbaity society, there have been so many times when people are like, Trump is done. Trump's finally, you know, finally met his, you know, and there's all these clickbaity headlines from left leaning sites that are trying to make money. And so they do these things because it works. And so people are just like, is this real? Like, is it a thing? And like, I don't think I, I don't think we are saying yes or no. I think we're saying maybe. I think today's escalation from Trump was, I was surprised that he said he didn't really want the support of anybody that, that, that believes the Jeffrey Epstein thing. And I'm like, that's, dude, that's like your entire base. Like, what are you doing? And you know, this is already a group of people who do not tend to vote if Donald Trump's name is not on the list.

Rich (25:10)

Yes.

Chris (25:10)

Like this. I got to think that Mike Johnson in the House, the House speaker is sitting here like losing his absolute mind because they were already what, they have a five seat majority. I think they were already in a world of hurt next year. But like this. And I actually, if I'm John Th. As well, I'm like, oh God. Because, you know, even though like Susan Collins is quote unquote moderate, she's really not. But like Maine has a lot of these, like Epstein, like people who are already mistrustful of her. They may just not, they just might just say, fuck it, I don't care about anymore. I'm not voting next year. And that is a real problem for them.

Rich (25:43)

Oh yeah, it's, it's an interesting blind spot too because like Trump, Trump's base is the group that pushed this forward. But Trump didn't really push this forward because it's bad for him. Like, he doesn't want to deal with this conversation. Like, Trump never really talked about Epstein ever Like that. He avoided this conversation for as long as he could. It was his following that liked this story. But he, like, I could be wrong I never saw it. I never saw Trump come out and be like, the Democrats are all, you know, on the Epstein list. Like he never, I don't think he ever perpetuated this once because I think he wanted to stay as far away from it as possible. And now he's kind of just getting by circumstance and he's just.

Chris (26:17)

Yeah.

Luke (26:18)

You know, Don Jr. Really leaned into it a lot.

Chris (26:21)

He did, you know, Don Junior.

Rich (26:24)

But he's a.

Zach (26:25)

Don Junior's the dumb as.

Rich (26:27)

Yeah. They're like, shut.

Chris (26:29)

The poor man. It's like the poor man's succession. Right. With that family.

Rich (26:32)

Oh, 100%. 100%. I can't watch.

Chris (26:36)

I love this. Oh, I love it. Oh, I love it.

Rich (26:41)

Throw them off a building.

Chris (26:42)

What about.

Zach (26:42)

Did you guys watch any of Ozark?

Chris (26:44)

Yeah, I watched the first season, but then I didn't.

Zach (26:46)

It was all right.

Rich (26:47)

I watched all of it. I, you know, I have a lot to say about it for another episode.

Zach (26:52)

I'm a justified guy.

Rich (26:54)

Yeah. Just.

Chris (26:54)

I haven't watched that. I need to watch. Okay, well. Oh, God, I've completely lost my train of thought now. You got.

Luke (27:01)

We do a hard pivot. Let me, let me just go hard pivot.

Chris (27:04)

Let's sure. There's no rules.

Luke (27:06)

So we recently had a guest on the show who was running in a special election.

Zach (27:12)

Real hard pivot.

Luke (27:13)

She was trounced.

Rich (27:14)

She's not on the list.

Luke (27:15)

You know, Deja Fox, 25 year old activist who was on our show just a few weeks ago, was getting all sorts of earned media. Right? Yes. She, she knows how to use social media better than anyone else in the race. Most people outside of Arizona probably have no idea. You couldn't name a single other candidate in the race. Right. Nationally, she had this huge name recognition advantage. You know, I, I listened to her talk for a half hour on her show and I thought she was, I thought she was great, thought she was really talented. But the people of Arizona in her district. What district? 9.

Chris (27:51)

7.

Rich (27:51)

7.

Luke (27:52)

District 7. They did not think. So what was the, what were the numbers? She lost like three. Yeah.

Chris (27:59)

62, 21. Then 13 for the next or 11, something like that.

Rich (28:04)

A 40 point win.

Luke (28:06)

So why, why did that happen?

Chris (28:08)

So I have a, I have a answer to this one. Special election. Elections are funny. And you really only get, generally speaking, you get the core Democrats that are really tuned in, really plugged in and know what's going on because it's just like a weird day. A weird, like all this stuff. Also, she was running against the daughter of the most well known politician in that district who was Raul Grahalva, who was in Congress for about 3 billion years and passed away last fall. So that name was already on there. And. And she was actually a known quantity too because she was on the. Whatever the county is, their school board, maybe even the chair of the school board. So she was a known quantity. There was also another candidate, Daniel, Daniel Hernandez, who I know a little bit. It's great, dude. He was Gabby G. One of Gabby Gifford staffers on the day that she got shot in Tucson. And I think actually was the one that was like holding wow. As she was on the ground. So there was a bit of a split of all of that. I actually think that a 25 year old that had no real political background besides, you know, she did yell at Jeff, Jeff Flake about his horrible position on abortion, which is a brave thing to do for a 16 year old. But like really wasn't an Unknown quantity getting 20%, 21% in special action. I don't actually think it's terrible. I also think that a lot of her attention came in the last few days and it's just too late at that point. Like there was a Politico article yesterday. Like it's just too late. And even though she did get all of that earned media, everyone in that county or in that district, everyone knows the name Grijalva, right?

Rich (29:45)

And the other element is that Grijalva had almost the exact same platform as Deja Fox did. Like they're both hyper progressive, like really far left. Like the only difference between the two is what Deja, I think intelligently leaned into was the establishment versus you know, coming from literally like lived experience that, that you know, the. She needed the things that she wants to provide when she was young. That's cool. But to me, like the bummer of it was like in my head I thought that narrative would work better. Like people coming, like, I lived this, I need X, Y and Z. Because people who are living this now, it'll help them. I thought that would play a lot better and it just didn't at all. But you know, that's how it goes.

Chris (30:25)

This is why, this is why there are essentially legacy candidates that like if their parents ran or their mom or dad, they come in because name ID in a lot of these races is, is so important. Especially because like the, the overwhelming majority of people who vote in specials are older and so they've got that they're not the 25 year olds. There's not the Bemdani situation where Pretty much everybody he was running against was either a no namer or, or, or Cuomo. And so like, he had Elaine and also he could. A mayor's race is different also. There's rank choice and all those things. But like, I think it's just really, really hard. But. And she did lose by a ton, don't get me wrong. But like, I still think that that showing is not.

Rich (31:14)

No, it's not terrible.

Chris (31:15)

I'm sure she's disappointed, but like, sure, sure. I think it could have been worse.

Rich (31:19)

I think she did a great job. I think, like, I'll just say this regardless of win or lose, I think she's got a crazy future in politics. Like, she was so good when she was on the show. I was really impressed. Like, I, I just, I think, like, hopefully this doesn't. And I don't think it will. I don't think this would like, push her off the path in any way. I think it'll probably make her even go harder down the path. So I hope she does because she's super smart, good ideas, great communicator, understands social, like all the things you need to be successful. She's got it. So she just got to keep going.

Luke (31:47)

So I, I do think it's worth mentioning, since we're talking about, you know, Mamdani, Politico and Cuomo, that one of our co hosts here has the quote of the day.

Rich (32:01)

I love it. Do we have it?

Chris (32:02)

Can we read it?

Luke (32:03)

Quite the honor.

Chris (32:05)

I'd have to. Hold on. I got it.

Rich (32:07)

Looks good.

Chris (32:08)

You got it? You want to read it?

Zach (32:09)

Wait, no, I don't.

Chris (32:10)

I thought I did.

Rich (32:12)

It was a good quote. My response to it was, oh, that's going to make comos people.

Chris (32:16)

So, so for context. So Governor, former Governor Cuomo announced that he was running as an independent yesterday or the day before. And he put out this video where he's in this like short sleeve shirt that he'd clearly never worn before and did this direct to camera video and was saying, oh, I'm gonna, you know, in this race, I've changed the team and I've got, you know, I'm gonna do more on digital and D. So like Politico reached out to me because I worked for Governor Cuomo from 2016 to 2018 and I am no longer supporting him and I'm supporting Namdani. But they asked me about it and I said, there's actually a longer quote. But the quote of the day is you can't fake this stuff. And just sitting in a park without a suit on doesn't solve your authenticity problem. And this is what I was. Well, the core of what I was saying was that there are still candidates out there that think that digital will solve their problems if they just do digital, meaning social media and videos. And it's. No, it's the same with, like, a TV ad. It's just like, you know, Mamdani, the reason that that worked is that he had an authentic. There's a longer quote in the article if you go read it, that. Where I talk more about it, where it's like, Mamdani, first of all, is a digital Native because he's 33 years old, but also, like, he's very good on camera. He's. And he's very authentic, like, comfortable. And he has ideas. Like, he's talking about these ideas. I mean, he did this. And this is probably only going to be relevant to the New York City crowd, but he did a video on why halal food is so expensive now, and he tied it to the fact that you can't get a. You cannot get a license to be a food truck in New York without waiting years. So what happens is that people do it illegally. And then there's all this thing, and then the prices get all screwed. He's like, I want to. You know, he's like, I want to make halal$7 again, because that's what it used to be. And this genius, like. And people in New York City understand that because pretty much everyone in New York City has stopped at one of those trucks and has noticed the prices go up. But Cuomo just going on and being like, hi, everybody. Kind of. Kind of like my intro and. And like, saying, I'm going to be different after being governor for, what was it, 10, 12 years? It's just rings hollow. And so, yes, I.

Luke (34:25)

What are the lessons here? Like, is. Or should we expect what happened to Deja Fox to happen to Mamdani? Because Cuomo has greater name recognition than anyone in New York State. No, because, you know, legacy candidates.

Chris (34:40)

Yeah.

Luke (34:40)

The man's. He was the governor, but his father was also the governor as well.

Chris (34:44)

Right. Well, but then a bunch of things happened to lead him. Why he's not governor anymore. Right. Like, you know, sexual harassment allegations, women, and then resigning and then coming back and not really having. I mean, his platform was, I'm gonna make the city more affordable.

Rich (35:02)

Right.

Chris (35:02)

How I'm going to add more police. Not very popular in New York City, particularly with Democrats.

Rich (35:07)

Yes.

Chris (35:09)

And so it's a mixture. Right. And, like, you Know, if he had, you know, if he had managed to keep his highs from COVID and continue on, first of all, he'd either be governor or he would have, you know, or he would have run for president. Yeah. You know, but like it's a, there's a lot of things. Right. But like, the point of what I was saying was that social is not, it's not a, it's, it's not just like you turn it on and everything.

Rich (35:33)

Yeah. You don't just check a box.

Chris (35:35)

Right. But I don't. I think they're very different because he has a long track record that a lot of people are not happy with. Some, some love it a lot don't. And he really didn't live in New York City until he ran, let's be honest. And you know, his, he doesn't do retail politics. He doesn't engage with people. He's very like, you know, he's a of that age. And you know, he put out a video the other day of him like jump starting some guy's car and it was like very clearly scripted. It was like, I mean, Dan Pfeiffer on Crooked was like destroying it. I just, I don't want to be the only one criticizing don't fucking cancel me. But, but, but no, it's just, it's the. They just missed it. They just completely missed why Mandani is, is, is as popular as he is. And Deja, you know, Deja is younger. She is eight years younger. He was a two term assembly member, so he could get around some of that. But I think the thing that, that I, what I really respect about Deja and I think how she's going to have more impact is I think people are going to look at her and there's the woman, Kate something in Illinois.

Zach (36:40)

Or something, I don't know, her last name is hard to pronounce.

Chris (36:45)

It is showing young people that they can run for office and I love that. And I think we need more of that because it also makes our candidates better to win if there's a competitive primary.

Rich (36:54)

Yeah, I definitely think that's true. I really hope that this Cuomo thing doesn't over Mamdani too, because he really needs to win.

Chris (37:00)

It won't. He will win.

Luke (37:03)

Who's going to win Staten Island?

Zach (37:04)

Tim's going on record right now.

Luke (37:05)

Is it going to be the former cop or is it going to be Cuomo?

Chris (37:08)

Well, don't forget, don't forget Eric Adams is in this race as well. Yeah, yeah, so. And you've Got. And then you've got Curtis lebow, who is Guardian Angels or something.

Rich (37:20)

Weirdo.

Chris (37:20)

He's in it. He's in it. He's in it just for the attention. And everybody knows that. It's not a. It's. That's. But that's why they're, like, trying to get him out. Like, you're going to have to put. He literally said, you're going to have to put me in a pine box before I. I jump out of this race. Because he loves the attention. He runs around with a red jacket, like, beret. I mean, come on. And then there's Jim Walden, who's like a financier guy. So, like, there's four people running against Mdani to his right. Like, it. There's just. It. There's not enough. Now Staten Island. Yeah, he'll win Staten island, but, like, he's going to win Brooklyn, which is a hell of a lot bigger than Staten Island.

Rich (37:54)

I mean, the risk that Mamdani has, I think he. It's sort of like the risk that Sanders faced when he was trying to beat Biden in the primary. And then everybody just said, no, we're all just going to back Biden. And then Biden overstepped him, where Sanders is probably going to win. If that didn't happen, that could happen here. I mean, it's probably less likely if still was just going to, like, never leave the race. But if, like, everybody besides Cuomo was like, mom dining. Cuomo was like, hey, we're going to drop out. Everybody vote for Cuomo. I think Cuomo wins.

Chris (38:18)

So you. But you forget a very important thing about New York politics. Everybody is out for themselves.

Rich (38:23)

Right?

Chris (38:23)

So, Adams, what is his incentive to leave? Nothing he's done after this. And frankly, he probably needs to raise money for his campaign so he could pay some legal bills. But he also came out yesterday, I think, and attacked Cuomo, and he's like, we had a handshake deal. Like, if he lost the primary, he wasn't going to get back in it. So, like, he's not going to do Cuomo any favors. And then you got Sliwa, who's just, like, dancing, just trying to get cameras. And then you've got another guy, the wealthy guy, who's probably going to pull 1 2%. There's just not enough independence. And Republicans in this city also, the more that people that Democrats meet Mdani, they like him more because there is a. I mean, he has some things he needs to answer for and some things in his past that he has said that that need clarification for sure. But he's already doing that. He's reaching out to the, he's reaching out to the Jewish community. He's doing the things that he is supposed to be doing, which has showed me that like he actually has a good team in place. I don't, I own, I know one is person that works over there and they're running a good operation. And I just don't think, you know, Cuomo doing social videos where he's like, hi, everybody is going to swing any votes.

Zach (39:30)

What do you mean? Democrats doing TikTok Trends doesn't do bringing this full circle.

Luke (39:34)

I, I fully expect after Eric Adams loses the election that Donald Trump is going to tap him for some sort of law enforcement thing.

Rich (39:42)

100% probably.

Luke (39:43)

I, I see Eric Adams, you know, being put in the DOJ somewhere because that guy is compromised as. Yeah, like he would, he would be, you know, and, and he's a black dude. Donald Trump doesn't have a very big list of people of color who want to work for him.

Rich (40:00)

No, he does not.

Luke (40:00)

But, but Eric Adams owes him a lot. Right. Like, Trump ordered the DOJ to drop some pretty substantial charges against Adams.

Rich (40:10)

Yeah.

Luke (40:11)

So, you know, I, I think that Adams, while his career, you know, as a former Democrat may maybe gone like the rest of all of the, you know, grifters who don't give a shit about anything except themselves. Like, there's probably a warm seat for him somewhere in the Trump administration.

Chris (40:29)

Well, if Cash Patel and Dan go resign over the Epstein stuff, I mean, Eric Adams is a former police officer. And we also can't forget that most of Eric Adams life he's been a Republican, not a Democrat.

Rich (40:48)

Right.

Chris (40:49)

Not a Democrat.

Zach (40:49)

Don't fucking matter.

Chris (40:51)

No, no, but like give him a chance to go like work with his buddy Tom Holman and like go attack a bunch of immigrants in New York. Sounds like Eric Adams dream come true.

Rich (41:02)

Get back at bombed on.

Chris (41:03)

Can you tell what I think of Eric Adams?

Zach (41:06)

I don't think he likes.

Chris (41:07)

Not a fan. Not a fan. I had an interaction with the hip once, which is just atrocious. But when he, when I was a constituent, it was just crazy. But yeah, I, I, I could totally see that. Totally.

Rich (41:20)

I could too. It's painful, but it's true.

Chris (41:23)

All right. And before we wrap, there was one thing we were talking about before we went live that I generally wouldn't talk about because it is again, teetering into the world of conspiracies. But a lot of people are talking about it is what's going on with Donald Trump's hands and feet.

Rich (41:37)

Yeah.

Chris (41:38)

Like, for example, there are these weird. And these are real. They're from news outlets. These, these zoomed in photos of Donald Trump's hands, which are caked in makeup. Like the, like the bandages.

Zach (41:50)

Yeah. It's a cover up for an iv.

Chris (41:53)

Yeah. And it's like, is that. What is that?

Zach (41:55)

I. I don't know anything about commonly accepted theory.

Rich (41:58)

It doesn't make any sense. And iv.

Luke (41:59)

I mean, I've only hand.

Rich (42:00)

Like that.

Luke (42:01)

I've only seen one video like this so far. And like, shortly before we came on air, and it looked to me like melanoma, like a, like a raised spot getting covered, like a real dark spot. Now, it could be, could not be melanoma. It could just be old man spots, you know, some sort of freckle or some shit. And he doesn't want to reveal a freckle. But, you know.

Chris (42:30)

There'S no evidence.

Luke (42:32)

There's no evidence. So I don't want to promote a conspiracy theory. Like, this is the opposite of what I do. But, like, there's a chance the guy's, you know, sick.

Rich (42:40)

Yeah. He's definitely 79 and eats McDonald's every day.

Zach (42:42)

A diet of McDonald's.

Chris (42:43)

Yeah. No exercise.

Rich (42:45)

No.

Zach (42:45)

That really cannot help you.

Rich (42:46)

I mean, the ankle, Afraid of stairs. It's like, you know, I like the hand. It's typical old person stuff. You get cuts, whatever, bruises. It's easy.

Chris (42:53)

But the.

Rich (42:54)

If he's got a circulation problem, could.

Zach (42:57)

I've seen people.

Chris (42:59)

Yeah. So the reason why I think this is important is because the Republicans in Congress, in their desperate attempts to find anything to distract from the failure of the Trump administration, have been going after the, in this quote, unquote investigation into Joe Biden's mental decline. And I tell you what, I would make a trade with them in an instant. Both of these guys go to an independent doctor for a physical and we see the results of both.

Rich (43:26)

Yes.

Chris (43:26)

Yeah. What do you think?

Rich (43:28)

I would love that.

Zach (43:28)

With stage four cancer, Joe Biden looks healthier now than he did when he stopped being president.

Rich (43:33)

Yes.

Chris (43:34)

I'm serious. I'm serious. If they really want to play this game, I think that's what Democrats should do. Because what does it matter at this point if it turns out that Joe Biden, like, like, first of all, I don't think so. From the people we've talked to, I, I think he was old and he had a hard time communicating because he has a stutter. And you Slow down when you're old. I don't think he was mentally unfit, but let's have it out if it's true. And, but then we find out that, first of all, Donald Trump is not 235 pounds for one, and he's not six, three.

Zach (44:04)

Well, I bet that doctor would fear for his fucking life.

Luke (44:06)

You know, I, Joe Biden, There's, There's a lot of reasons I, I always like Joe Biden as a person. You know, I had the opportunity to see him so speak when he was vice president. It was, it was extremely entertaining. And I wish that I could find the video because he, he said things that he didn't mean to be appropriate, that, that came out that way. It was. Was very funny to, to hear a vice president do that. This is the con in the context of. Well, before Trump.

Chris (44:32)

Yeah.

Luke (44:33)

But, you know, I, I think that he has a responsibility as a former president who was warning us, who was using the word fascist to describe Trump. You know, he's a former president. If he walks out and sets up a podium in his driveway from Delaware and starts speaking into it, people are going to listen.

Rich (44:54)

Sure.

Luke (44:55)

And I think that, I think that President Biden, you know, has, has a responsibility and one way that, that he could be, I think very useful is Tim's idea saying, hey, we both get a physical from the same person, you know, an independent.

Zach (45:10)

I can get behind that.

Chris (45:11)

I mean, I guess it was my idea, but I love it.

Luke (45:14)

Like, I, I think that. I think that President Biden, like, he's got not too much time left on his, on the planet. He's. He's old. He's not very healthy anymore.

Chris (45:23)

Yeah.

Rich (45:23)

He's got cancer.

Luke (45:24)

If, if he wants to preserve his legacy and his legacy is losing to a fascist. Right. Of all the. I, again, I love Joe Biden. I think he accomplished a lot. He was very good, you know, to I. My community, the veterans community, always had been. Right. Lost his son to, to burn, pit exposure. That is something near and dear to my heart. Right. I love Joe Biden, but just because he's retired from being president doesn't mean. I mean, he wanted to be president right now.

Rich (45:54)

Yeah.

Luke (45:55)

So, you know, I think he owes it to us. I think he owes us. He had six months off. Yep. Work for the next three and a half years. Do nothing but criticize Donald Trump's health. Coming from an old, frail man, that, that means something. It's. It's one thing for, for me and, and us to talk about how Donald Trump's Old and frail. But if Joe Biden just comes out and is just like, hey, look at me. I can ride my bike. Donald Trump, can you ride a bike? No, you can't.

Chris (46:24)

Oh, my gosh.

Rich (46:25)

No, you can't ride a bike.

Luke (46:27)

Let's right, like, just have Joe Biden do. Do things like ride a fucking bike and be like, Donald Trump, I will give you a million dollars if. If you can ride a bike.

Chris (46:37)

Right.

Luke (46:38)

Joe Biden just trolled Donald Trump. That would be for the rest of his life. That would be the most patriotic thing that he could do for America right now.

Rich (46:46)

That's a really good idea. I actually love this idea.

Chris (46:50)

Yeah. Because there is this look, and I think that a lot of people, including myself, criticize Barack Obama for this. That there is this. The. The president's club, right. Where they. They. It is underneath or beneath them to criticize their successors. But Biden has put out a few things. I mean, we'll say, like, it's not earth shattering, but, like, he was against this horrible bill that they passed everything. But I love it. If he were to do that and, like, and just let him go out there without any notes, just be this whole, like, let Joe be Joe. Just let him do it. Yeah, he's just. He swears.

Zach (47:21)

Put his aviators on.

Chris (47:22)

Yeah, put the. Put the aviators on. He's got the, like, you know, the old POTUS college shirt and be like, hey, like, you want to talk? Let's do this.

Luke (47:32)

Drop them in a Camaro.

Zach (47:33)

Yep.

Chris (47:34)

Yeah. Have it revving. His could be in the Camaro revving the engine while he's doing it. This is great. I think it's great. And I love this, like, talk about connecting with younger voters. There's nothing that a young voter loves more than an old person going crazy, yelling and screaming at somebody they hate. Right. Like, it's kind of like, you know, it's kind of like the Gran Torino. Torino. Torino with thing. Right. But like, only a much less racist and nicer person. But so bad example. But, you know, I would love it.

Luke (48:05)

Real talk. I'm. I'm gonna spend the next week trying to make this happen.

Rich (48:09)

Yes. This really needs to happen. I mean.

Luke (48:15)

I've got a. I've got a way. I think I can get the message there.

Rich (48:20)

Okay. Hey.

Chris (48:21)

All right.

Rich (48:21)

I like it. That's great.

Luke (48:23)

We'll see. I. You know, I. That I think the chances of happening are zilch, but I think it's also the most patriotic thing that. That Joe Biden could do. And I think It'd be very good for the country. So I'm gonna do it.

Chris (48:34)

And like, a little humility, right? A little humility, right? He was like, you know, like I, you know, I, I probably didn't realize how I, you know, I made some mistakes too. But like, you know what? Like this guy's been talking shit on me for like six years now. Like, you know, I love it.

Rich (48:47)

Yeah, I think it's great.

Chris (48:48)

You know what else is great, guys? Find out. Merch.

Luke (48:55)

Let'S, yo, let's, let's, let's design a shirt that, that like tries to encourage Joe Biden to start challenging.

Rich (49:04)

I like that contest.

Chris (49:06)

Maybe we should do a whole campaign, get a petition going.

Rich (49:09)

Yes.

Chris (49:09)

If, Oh, I love.

Luke (49:10)

Listen, if, if people could leave comments on our substack. If you go to find out podcast.substack.com just leave comments or join the community. You know, you can talk in a chat directly to us. Tell us your ideas for merch. Let us know what, what we should sell, please.

Chris (49:29)

A.

Luke (49:29)

Because we have to make money to keep doing this and we're not selling a ton of merch, but it makes a difference every sale. But how can we possibly like amplify the shit out of this message? I think like, if we could get people just relentlessly posing with the shirt that like demands Joe Biden. Challenge Trump to a physical contact to ride a, to ride a bike.

Chris (49:52)

Like, I don't know, 100 yard bike ride or something.

Rich (49:55)

I like it.

Chris (49:56)

One time around, one time around the track quarter.

Luke (49:58)

Challenge him to a race of any kind.

Rich (50:00)

Downhill, lose all of them.

Luke (50:02)

Race, race downhill down a ramp. You know, anything but a golf course.

Chris (50:07)

We don't want them to get hurt. A flat surface is probably safer than.

Zach (50:10)

Having them running material that's real spongy.

Luke (50:16)

You know what? Put them in like a pedal cart, like a four wheeled pedal cart that neither of them can possibly fall over. We'll make sure that Donald Trump has some like real suspension to keep the, the bottom off the ground and, and see who makes 100 meters fastest.

Chris (50:32)

Should we bring back that old show? Do you guys remember the show Gladiators at all, Chris? People, those guys, those huge Jack dudes, a lot of them like former football players and stuff. And then there's just like little, little like squirrely guys that are trying to like get through these, this obstacle course and they're like pounding them with pads and stuff.

Luke (50:48)

Luke, have you ever seen this? No. You know what?

Chris (50:49)

This. Oh, man, you got it. I will send you some clips.

Luke (50:52)

It's so we gotta find clips. I feel like this, this could be a, like a generational, like, connection. Gen X and Millennial maybe.

Chris (51:00)

It could be a giant fundraiser to pay down the national debt, you know, start to make a. What's like, it's the patriotic thing to watch these guys beat the shit out of each other.

Rich (51:11)

These are great ideas.

Luke (51:13)

Going to be exactly like, where, like, we lose all of our women listeners.

Chris (51:19)

Yeah, they're like, you idiots. Like, I also, by the way, I did not think my, my shameless pivot to merch was going to lead to the gladiator match of Trump and, and Biden, but I love it. But I'm gonna go back and say, while we do need more merch, our merch that we have now I think is still really good. There's. If you look over Chris's left shoulder, there is a lovely mug over there. And like, and like you said, like, we, we need, we rely on your merch purchases and your substack memberships to keep the show going. And we want to do more. We want to get bigger. So the more you can help support us by buying merch@findoutpodcast.com and becoming a member of our substack@findoutpodcast.subs.com that makes it a lot easier for us to do new shows, create more content, because we do want to create more shows and we've got a few ideas, but we need the money to do it. So if you can chip in a few bucks. And I'm sure now that we have proposed a steel cage match between Joe Biden and Donald Trump, you guys, your wallets. Maybe we get 10% of the proceeds for our idea and the rest can go to the debt. We'll take care of that.

Rich (52:28)

I love it.

Chris (52:29)

All right, guys, I think that, I think, I think we have exhausted the.

Luke (52:33)

Conversation about tricycle con. Like, my brain is just going crazy.

Chris (52:37)

He's ready.

Luke (52:37)

Put them both on tricycles, like adult sized tricycles. That, that way Donald Trump's not going to fall off.

Chris (52:44)

My money's still on Biden. Still on Biden, unquestionably. So. Also, Biden's shorter, so it's a little easier, but. All right, guys. Well, this was kind of a cluster at the end of this, but Rich is going to be like, what the hell are you guys talking about anyways? Well, if you made it this far, you guys are amazing. Thank you. Until next week, have a lovely weekend. Buy that merch. Subscribe to us on Substack and we'll be back on Tuesday.