Chris (3:12)

You know, I'll.

Rich (3:12)

I'll be decent and leave it at that until we get the confirmation.

Tim (3:16)

Well, I'm not going to be, because I worked at every. I worked in this world, right? You know, I met Allison Parker's parents. Allison Parker is the reporter that was shot and killed on live TV 10 years ago. It was 10 years ago this month. I met them a week afterwards, and, you know, I sat in a room with them when they said, can you help us open her iPhone? We just want the photos, which about broke me in about 50 different ways. And it just infuriates me that we allow families to go through such a tragic and horrendous experience of losing loved ones, children, parents, friends, family, all because we don't want to have strong gun laws. I do not get it. I think the people who are against this are abhorrent. I know. I'm. We were just talking earlier about welcoming everybody into our side with open arms if they want to be. But, like, I just. When I hear that people are against universal background checks, they are against closing the. What's called the Charleston loophole, which allows guns sales to go through even if there's a flag, if it's. If it's gone 72 hours or 48 hours or something like that. That we have a voluntary national gun, criminal, criminal history record system that we have to chase red states to. To actually participate in. It is madness. We're also the only country that this happens in. Like, people go, well, what about. What about Canada? I'm like, okay, you're in favor of licensing, registration, and training. And then they say, what about Switzerland? I'm like, the same thing. So it is not that there are other places that are like this. We are uniquely, uniquely violent. And it is not because Americans are defective. It is because we have widely available access to firearms, essentially 24 hours a day, and if more guns made us safer, we would be the safest country on earth. It is the one issue that I do not understand how there is any argument that we should keep guns out of the hands of criminals. And that is the position of the Republican Party, and that is the position of Donald Trump. And today we saw again, two children died in a church. Because we make it easy for everybody to have a gun in this country. And it makes no sense. The second amendment is a relic. Like when we used to have muskets. You know, like if we want to just let people have muskets, I'm okay with that. But AR15s, long guns, pistols that have served no purpose. It just. I lose my mind. I lose my mind. I can't. Like, it's just infuriating beyond belief.

Chris (6:00)

The damage that events like this do are incalculable. I, I come from an industry as an extremism researcher where I know that most of the people in my field right now there are, you know, there's a very small piece of America that has good hearted Americans who know about the worst and the ugliest parts of our society and they know where to find the worst and ugliest parts of our society. And there are. Right. I have no idea about anything about this, this particular shooting, so I'm not gonna pretend to, to know anything about the motive, the person who did it, or the victims or anything. So I'm, I'm speaking in just very general terms and I do this deliberately. Like I, I have seen a lot of violence in my life. Part of my job in the military when I was deployed to Iraq was the photo documentation of victims of torture, which, which included people who were riddled with bullets after they had been tortured. Right. So. So I don't participate in, in this anymore. But a bunch of my friends right now are, are probably seeing things that they'll never unsee because it's not just about whatever footage or photos may or may not be broadcast from this particular incident. All of the mass shootings before will start to flood news feeds. Misinformation and disinformation. Whether it's misinformation is people, you know, posting things that they are not doing nefariously. They're just misinformed. Right? Disinformation. There are people out there who, for clicks and likes and for, you know, participation in the creator fund of TikTok or any other social media platform will just push whatever they can to get more and more views. Right? And violence sells. And it's a small piece of America, in my opinion. Some of the most patriotic and empathetic people in the world who right now are just combing through things that will leave them change for the rest of their lives. You know, I think that a lot of, and the reason that I bring this up is because a lot of Americans as. As prevalent as gun violence is in this country still don't have a connection to it. And that is your answer, Tim, because this is just stuff that they see on tv. It's not stuff that they've seen in real life. You know, it's. It's like I see these young MAGA chuds who are all excited to join ICE and put their hands on people. You know, I don't. I have a few friends who are cops who've been in the nypd. You know, I'm. I. I served in the military. What they don't show you in the recruiting commercials are the fucking sleepless nights. The things that you not just witness, but the things that you participate in when you wear a uniform, for example, but because you just see the ugliest things in the world. You know, it's. All of this. Everything about an incident like this just makes me so pissed off. Not. Not just at America, but at human. Human beings. You know, there are basic things that we can do to respect other people, and one is to make it so that they're at least not a witness to horrific. This analogy might sound crazy, but hang with me for a second. Being disengaged in. In whether people should be forced to be responsible gun owners. Forced by law to be responsible gun owners is kind of the same thing as getting into your car and driving without a seatbelt. You might think that, well, you know, if it's. It's my choice. It's my life. If I get in a car accident and I get run through the windshield, too bad for me, it was my choice. But these motherfuckers, they aren't thinking about the emergency responder. They're not thinking about the school bus full of children that your fucking brains might be splattered all over the side of. Right? And I. I think that until a lot of people, myself included, I had to go to war to learn what kind of horror exists in the world. I think a lot of people just can't imagine the effect that your selfish decision, a decision that you truly believe does not impact anyone else, how that can profoundly shape someone's entire life for the worse.

Tim (10:55)

We.

Chris (10:55)

And that's.

Tim (10:55)

We have.

Chris (10:56)

That's what we're seeing today.

Tim (10:57)

We have a. We have a member of Congress currently, whose son was shot and killed in a convenience store parking lot because his music was too loud. And I will let you know, I will let you guess the color of his skin and the color of the skin of the person who shot him. And nobody we don't even need to say it because we all know. And that is Congresswoman Lucy McBath and who took her pain and turned it into action. She's actually an amazing, amazing person. She's a congresswoman in Georgia. I've met her once or twice. She's lovely. But we allowed this, that story to be true. Like, we didn't do anything. Like, the guy went to jail, great. But like, what the hell is he doing armed in a convenience store parking lot? You know, the, the, the Sandy Hook one, which nobody wants to talk about, as I understand. We're 6, 26 year olds. We're not just like movie shot. And I think this is something that people don't get because they see it in TV and they see it in movies where, like, you get shot, there's a little bit of blood, you fall down, you get to say your final farewells, and then you die. These children were shot beyond recognition. Beyond recognition. Some of the parents have talked about this, and some of the parents said that they were given the options of seeing their kid or not. And the one that haunts me to this day is the woman that said, I had to see him because he's my son and I needed to be with him. Why are we allowing this to happen? And I don't understand how the right has no empathy for this. I'm not saying take away your shotgun or your handgun. I'm saying let's get rid of guns. That the sole purpose of them is to obliterate what is in front of them, which is an AR15 and they all mass shooters use it. We had a, we had a, we had a ban. It worked. And then George Bush got rid of it and now we can't even barely talk about it anymore. And I just, I guess people don't care about 6 year olds, like being shot beyond recognition. And we have to cope with that and we have to overcome it. But man, every time I see one of these, I'm like, this is such an unforced, unforced error. And we have ruined the lives of hundreds of people today because we don't take any action.

Rich (13:19)

Well, this is one of my.

Chris (13:22)

Go ahead, Rich.

Rich (13:23)

This is one of my concerns with not just guns and shootings, but everything, everything that Republicans have done to this country over the past 30, 40 years economically, foreign policy, with gun rights, with health, they create this incredible instability to where people are more numb and more desperate and more tuned out and detached than ever. And they want to blame, like tick tock. They want to blame The Internet, that dude, I met all of you guys through TikTok people. There are real relationships that are facilitated because of the Internet. But that's what they do is they want it to be a distraction. Say, well, everybody, if they ever, everybody put their phones down, there would be no violence or some nonsense. Video games, Right, right. It's always the video games. Not digress. But they've created this, this culture of numbness where Sandy Hook was the thing where it's like, if not Sandy Hook, if that's not going to drive any change. And I mean any change. They have bullets that are specifically designed to shred human flesh. And then they allow you to put 30 and 40 and 50 of those fucking things into one machine and then they give that machine a bump stock.

Tim (14:52)

Yeah, I mean it. Well, I'll, I'll jump in. I mean Rich is exactly right. And you know, three of the four of us in this room have children roughly around the same age. I, at least Rich and I roughly around the same age. Chris's is, is younger. I'm sure Luke has cousins and little kids that he interacts with. And when you, when just like it's a really painful thing. But just think about it for a second. If it was you, you know, or if like somebody who's on the other side, ask them about that, they get mad. But it's true. We're ripping families apart in this country for no good reason. You know, the thing about the video games is nonsense. Every country has these games, every country has these apps. But you know what? Every country doesn't have unfettered access to high capacity killing machines. And we let it happen over and over again. And it's one side of the political spectrum. This is not an all sides problem, guys. This is a Republican and conservative problem. And I would say that to anybody. Donald Trump doesn't give a shit what happens to your children. Republicans in Congress do not give a shit what happens to your children. It is awful. And the worst part about it is that we need national laws to make it really work because state by state ones are too easy to get around. They help because you look. And the gun violence rates are better in states that have stronger gun laws. But we need national laws and people don't understand the loopholes that are in here too. We're talking about children and like the party of family values, like, give me a fucking break.

Rich (16:30)

They have the nerve to call themselves pro life.

Tim (16:32)

Right, Right. Which they do. Nothing. And there's another piece of this that we haven't talked about that is going to make this worse, which is the big bullshit bill just cut $1 trillion from Medicaid. Guess where poor and working class families are able to get therapy paid for Medicaid that is now gone. So they have made this problem likely worse. It's already hard enough to get people the care that they need and it's going to get harder. So they just keep time.

Luke (17:04)

These miserable pricks will sit there and tell you about how it's not a gun problem, it's a mental health problem, while they actively rip the only thing that gives these people mental health care away from them. So it's, it's, it's not a, it's a, it's a problem that they're actively making worse while they tell you don't.

Tim (17:20)

Worry, it's in both areas, right?

Rich (17:23)

Because it's, it's really simultaneously on every front. They're making everything worse everywhere, all of the time.

Tim (17:29)

And they're making people afraid. We're talking about. What were we, Luke? We were talking about these like drones in there in Texas to identify shooters. I'm like, how about some gun laws, guys? How about instead of, you know, profiting off of the murder. Yeah, anything. Yeah. And the thing about the mental health thing is if it was only a mental health problem, every country would have the same gun death rates per capita that we do. And the ones that come close to us are ones that you don't want to live in. It's not the western European democracies, it's, it's not Australia who actually banned guns. Most guns after a mass shooting. And guess how many mass shootings they've had since? 0. So it is just. The party of family values is probably the biggest lie in political history. They're just not. They care about themselves, they care about money, they about care. They do not care about kids, they do not care about families. They only care about making sure that they're getting that NRA money and they don't want to hear it.

Luke (18:29)

Yeah. So how come, how come, if you, how come if good guys with a gun or there's never any problems, how come the NRA doesn't let you bring a gun into their conventions?

Tim (18:38)

Great question. Or the Republican National Convention or the Rep. Yeah.

Luke (18:41)

Or the rnc. Why, why can't you bring a gun in there?

Tim (18:42)

Also? I could sit here and probably tell you 10 to 15 mass shootings that in which there were good guys with guns that did stop it. They can't. Because how do you stop, how do you stop A mass shooting before you happens if you don't know who the gunman is.

Luke (18:57)

You mean, you mean to tell me that Joe that walks around with a 9 millimeter that's got a red dot on it isn't going to be like some magic man that can tell that a mass shooter is going to pull an AR out and shoot kids? Because I, that's just too far for me. I, I think the Republicans are right. I mean, it's fucking ridiculous.

Tim (19:13)

Columbine. Columbine had armed guards. Parkland had an armed guard that was literally hiding. Tucson, where Gabby Giffords was shot. There was an armed security officer in that grocery store, Uvalde.

Luke (19:28)

They sat outside for a while.

Tim (19:30)

They sat outside for 90 minutes and.

Luke (19:31)

Let those kids die while parents tried to get in.

Tim (19:34)

Parent, they were restraining parents from trying to get in and they were like kitted out.

Luke (19:40)

They were millions of dollars worth of special tactical gear.

Rich (19:44)

Kitted out.

Chris (19:45)

Mm.

Tim (19:46)

Yeah. And you know how the gunman got in a prop door.

Luke (19:50)

Yep.

Tim (19:50)

All that money.

Chris (19:53)

There's something that, that like we really need to bring in here and that's the fact that Fox News host and now District attorney for Washington D.C. jeanine Pirro, or whatever the fuck her name is, she has said that she will not prosecute people for open carrying long guns.

Tim (20:14)

Classic.

Chris (20:14)

In Washington D.C. as Pete Hegseth, another Fox News host, the Secretary of Defense is arming the National Guard. The National Guard does not want to be armed, by the way, in D.C. so what they are doing very deliberately and very clearly is they are inviting people, protesters, let's be clear, protesters, to go take their long guns into the capital of the United States and face off with the National Guard. Yeah, we're, we're living in a, in a country right now where the President of the United States is trying to manufacture people who swore an oath to this country, who put their lives in the hands of, of the federal government saying I will follow any lawful order that they, that they are given and they will do that. You need to a lawful order, carry a fucking gun in D.C. that's lawful order. They can't refuse.

Tim (21:16)

Yep.

Chris (21:17)

And, and two Fox News hosts are creating the conditions so that National Guard members of the National Guard are walking around for no reason other than to be human targets so the President can claim that, you know, some crazy antifa, whatever, when an incident does happen, when ship pops off and a bunch of heavily armed, probably not very well trained people, whether they're in the National Guard or civilians carrying long guns are going to, you know, Make. Make DC look like a war zone. And Donald Trump is going to use that as his fucking excuse to be even more of a tyrant. Like these, these things are. Are directly connected here. The Republican.

Tim (22:05)

Yeah.

Chris (22:05)

Love affair with, with violence and state violence and guns.

Tim (22:12)

It.

Chris (22:13)

These chickens are coming home to roost. And we can't ignore it.

Tim (22:18)

No. And it's a. It's the toxic mix. And I think it's. The sad reality is that there are a lot of people in this country that are all about it. They want to make other people suffer because they feel like their lot in life is shit. And so that's what. That is what the 30% that Hillary Clinton accurately called deplorables because they are, you know, and everyone lost their minds about it. And you know, but it was true. And you know, they want armed conflict because they know if there's armed conflict, his poll rate, his poll numbers will go up. People will stop talking about Jeffrey Epstein. They will stop talking about the fact that inflation is going back up, that he hasn't done jack shit about the things that he has promised to do. Instead, he has just decided to wage culture war so that he could remain powerful and screw everybody else. That's why they went to D.C. instead of Memphis, which is the most deadly city in the country. D.C. 's not even top 10. I'm not even sure it's even in the top 25. Also, they're not going to Anacostia or PG county, where the most of the violence in the. In D.C. is now. They're on the National Mall, which, you know, gotta look. Other than watching that stupid movie I was telling about. Yeah, well, I was like. I watched that movie Civil War the other night. There's like an actual gunfight at the Lincoln Memorial. That's the only violence that I've ever seen in on the cap on the Mall because. Would have to be a complete idiot because that thing, that place is already armed to the teeth because there are park police, there are Capitol Hill Police, there are D.C. police. Like there are. And there's a sheriff's. I think there's a sheriff of the District as well. There are like four. Four police organizations in that city. We do not need the National Guard as well. But you're right. Like, they want. Well, they want Democrats scared and they want people of color scared. So everyone's walking around with AKs, long guns, and it's just about power. And I think that is the part to me that makes me the most sad about MAGA is just the absolute cruelty that they, they want other people to suffer. And Donald Trump just doesn't care about anybody and wants people to suffer.

Rich (24:23)

It's Republican policies that have created this environment where people are more economically desperate and than ever. And if we, if we take this bait and allow it to just get worse, if we use, if we respond to misery with more misery and we go to guns and conflicts and violence, like, that is exactly what he wants and that's exactly where he's going to try to allow this to go as fast as possible. Because, like, I'm not of the mind that he actually wants to declare martial law and suspend elections. I know a lot of. We get a lot of comments and messages from people who deeply believe that that is absolutely what he's doing. I think it's much more immediate and superficial than that. He wants to just win the narrative. And so for him, winning the narrative means Democrats are defending criminals and brown criminals, ideally, and Republicans are talking about law and order and justice and forgetting the broader context and forgetting the fact that people are angry and hurting because they don't make enough money, and Trump is making that worse. They don't have good enough healthcare, and Trump is making that worse. And where we're at today is the product of 40, 50 years of Republican policies destroying all of the foundations that allow Americans to be. Or that at least open opportunities for Americans to make more money and have better healthcare and be happier and live happier lives.

Tim (25:49)

Well, in one piece that, that people don't. This has been kind of missed in our. Our good friend Mike Nellis talks about this a lot when he's. He. He actually goes on right win and yells at them. But one of the things in the big bill was cuts to community policing, which means that there will be less cops on the street because the federal government is cutting it.

Luke (26:12)

So defunding the police.

Tim (26:14)

Donald Trump defunded in. Republicans in Congress defunded the police. Democrats didn't do it. We never cut anything in New York City after all that Donald Trump is the only politician that has defunded the police. And that is a fact. So with that, let's pivot. I don't know how, as, as most of you will know, I am not a trained journalist or interviewer, so I don't actually know how to pivot. So we just make fun of it because, you know, I don't know how to go from something that, that, that dark. But, like, I think for all of our mental health, we need to move to something a little bit lighter and.

Chris (26:54)

All right, let Me, let me take this one real quick. So in the last episode, I, I ranted and raved about how Trump is trying to ban abortion at the va, which would affect, you know, countless women veterans who put their lives on the line for the country. Since, since I did a video on this the other day and since we published our latest episode where we talked about how you can leave a public comment, I had watched an additional 8,000 comments come in. And the spam comments are coming in at a slower rate, it appears at my first glance, at a much slower rate than unique, authentic comments. I'm going through the federal docket right now, and I am so thankful to our listeners for doing these comments themselves, encouraging their friends and families. The number of comments that have been made throughout the entire month. The public comment period opened on August 4th. We just watched it double in three days after slowly going from 1,000 to 6,000. It's now at 16,000. So it's more than double. So we, we are talking about feeling hopeless and, and about how Donald Trump is, is causing so much harm and everything. But here is an example of democracy, like, doing the thing. Here is an example of people rallying around protecting women, veterans rights because they understand that a ban at the, at the VA is, is, you know, telling us how the country is going to go. There's going to be a federal ban if we don't stand up against it. And this is just such a, a heartwarming thing, really, to see people call, answer the call, because a lot of us have felt like you can do a call to action and nobody actually does it because everyone's given up on democracy. This right here, you can go to the Federal Register and you can, you can see it. People have not given up on democracy. People are making their voices heard. We, we can still fight. We can still make a difference. We can still protect people that we love. So as dark as shit gets, don't give up. Keep fucking fighting. It is absolutely worth it.

Luke (29:30)

Also, that motherfucker is going to die eventually. I take extreme, extreme solace in the.

Tim (29:35)

Fact that we're not advocating for that, by the way.

Luke (29:37)

No, no, no, I don't want it.

Tim (29:40)

But I'm going to live longer than that. Well, the actuary tables. The actuary tables are not in his favor, let's put it that way.

Luke (29:46)

Especially with those goddamn cankles.

Tim (29:49)

Yeah, but, but look, but like, first of all, Chris, that is amazing. And, and, you know, I think that's the thing. Sometimes when you, you know, we are all moving more and more into doing this full time or regularly. And so we see a lot of the bad. Right. Because every. All of the news is like, Trump's taking this right away or Trump's doing this stupid thing that's going to hurt these people. And, like, it can be overwhelming. But I do think it's important to remember there are more of us than them now. A lot of them didn't vote last time, but they didn't vote for Donald Trump. And Donald Trump, yet again, did not win a majority of the vote. He won a plurality. So there are more of us than them. We have a lot of work to do to convince people to get back up off the sidelines. And I think that's why it's exciting to see some of these younger candidates stepping up like a Zora Mamdani, for example, and reinvigorating part the party. And that's why we're doing. What we're doing as well is that we want this to be a community space so you do not feel alone. We get emails from people in very, very red states that said, I thought I was alone. And we're working right now to try to figure out better ways to make it so that you can all communicate with each other as well, because it's really, really important. And we're going to all need to be year when we bring that huge blue tsunami and wipe these guys figuratively off the map and take control and then bring the. Take back the White House two years from that. And I really believe that those things are possible, but they're only possible if we stick together. So with that, we are going to pivot to a new segment. We're going to bring a little, I think probably a little joy or at least a little chuckle. Now we are going to start a new series called Hot Takes where one of us gives a hot take that is probably in our own minds, a little insane. And I don't. And I'm gonna. Luke's gonna be the first one to go because he had one that he then thought about and decided not to do.

Luke (31:50)

I'm gonna still do that one. I've decided.

Tim (31:52)

Oh, you are gonna do it.

Luke (31:53)

I'm gonna do that one.

Tim (31:54)

All right. Well, ladies and gentlemen, I don't have a. I'm not. I don't have the music up, so I can't do that thing like I did last time. But this is. Yeah, wait. Oh, actually, maybe I can do it. How about. Ladies and gentlemen, for Hot Takes, what do you think?

Rich (32:18)

Loudest thing I've ever.

Tim (32:21)

I Still don't know. Oh, there's a volume button I should have probably used.

Rich (32:23)

God damn it, Tim.

Tim (32:24)

All right, every hot takes, Luke, the floor is yours.

Luke (32:28)

Taylor Swift is not a saint, and she uses parasocial relationships with her fans to dick. To distance herself from the.

Tim (32:35)

Oh, boy.

Luke (32:36)

Eat all billionaires.

Chris (32:41)

I am personally not a Taylor Swift enjoyer.

Luke (32:45)

I like her music and I think she's actually a pretty good billionaire as they come. But, like, the way that she interacts with her fans is explicitly done, I think, to distance herself from people saying, eat the rich.

Tim (32:59)

So.

Chris (33:00)

All right, I'm. I'm gonna step in it. I'm gonna step in it right now. I know the Swifties are gonna be pissed. I. I think that Taylor Swift is a little bit delusional. I.

Luke (33:16)

That's a. That's a harsh word.

Chris (33:17)

That's a. I think that the power dynamic that she sees in her relationships are a bit inaccurate. They're. They're. Now, to be clear, when she was a young artist, she was absolutely taken advantage of, both by record labels, by men, all this sorts of shit. But she kind of like stayed onto that. When the power dynamic between her and virtually any other entity that exists, person or organization, the power dynamic shifted. She is bigger and stronger and more influential than anything that she interacts with at all. So I. I kind of think in her music, her painting herself as like a permanent 17 year old is. Is a bit of a stretch.

Tim (34:15)

Tim, what's your take on anything?

Rich (34:18)

There are so many angles. To start with. All of this as a musician, as a feminist. Okay.

Luke (34:24)

But here's something I would like to say. When is the last time that you had somebody that you cheered for a business merger ever? A business merger or a business acquisition? When's the last time you cheered for something like that? Never.

Tim (34:42)

And I don't really.

Luke (34:44)

Yeah. But Taylor Swift, and I think people see her as an individual and what she really is is. Or her. Her music is. Is a conglomerate. Like, it's a. It's a corporation.

Tim (34:56)

Yeah.

Luke (34:56)

After selling all of her fans countless Taylor's versions of her own music because she didn't own the masters and they bought them. She bought the masters, which I think is probably something she could have done the whole time. And they cheered for it.

Rich (35:13)

I'm not sure.

Tim (35:15)

So here's. Okay, here's my take.

Chris (35:18)

Okay.

Tim (35:19)

I disagree with both of you. First of all, she was famous when she was a teenager, which I think is an incredibly challenging to have. Right. I mean, all you got to do is look at Michael Jackson, Drew Barrymore, any child actor. Corey the. Corey's right. Feldman and Haim. And fame, when you are not fully developed, messes with you in a way that I don't think that any of us can understand. And I mean Michael Jackson's the most extreme case, right? Like just all, everything about him is tragic and also horrific at the same time. Based on the accusations. A guy who was famous from when he was six years old, his dad basically like, you know, abused him if he didn't perform a certain way.

Luke (36:05)

Right.

Tim (36:06)

Taylor, of all of the child actors and or musicians that I have ever seen, is the most well adjusted of any. She is very careful and protective of her image and her holdings. No doubt about it, getting royally screwed out of her.

Luke (36:25)

Her masters, by no stretch am I saying.

Tim (36:27)

And I understand completely why she, what she did, which was, well, if I can't control this, then I'm going to re record them and then I can at least control that. I pretty sure that the proceeds that she got from both the Heiress tour, which she made over a billion dollars on, and the re. The reissues or remakes gave her the money to buy the masters. But those masters were not sold back for $100 million. No, no, those masters were probably getting close.

Luke (36:57)

Business acquisition.

Tim (36:58)

Right, right. But, but, but do we, do we attack, you know, Steve Jobs for, for.

Luke (37:05)

Merging or for Pixel Celebrated is what I'm saying. I'm not saying you attack her for it at all. I'm saying people view it inherently different.

Tim (37:12)

But someone stole something from her and she took it back in the only way that she could.

Luke (37:17)

But like, but it's, it's, it's, it's the vibe of it, right? Like it's, it's a billionaire buying something back that is like, yeah, it's important to her and stuff, but like it's a business deal and like the way that people treated it, it was like the second coming of Christ. And it was like, is that her.

Tim (37:38)

Is that her problem or her fans problem?

Luke (37:40)

It's the, it's the parasocial relationship she encourages.

Rich (37:44)

So the thing that makes Taylor Swift different, there are many. She is a singer, she is a songwriter and a composer and she's a performer. She owns, she created and owns the content that she has made her living off of end to end. That doesn't mean there's not some guy or some woman, people in a, in a studio who dial in the things and make it all sound really great. But unlike almost every other famous singer in history, she wrote the Songs that she is performing, and then she performs them live when she's making what is actually where most of her money comes from on her tours. Whitney Houston's greatest song was written by someone else. She. Whitney Houston was by Dolly Parton.

Chris (38:34)

Whitney Houston was asking because I don't know, how does this compare to Beyonce? Does Beyonce write her own music?

Rich (38:42)

Beyonce performs other people's music. She.

Tim (38:45)

She has songwriting credits, but it's like one of those.

Luke (38:48)

Getting her stuff back.

Rich (38:49)

She. And, And. And the only reason she. And this is every musician. So it's not unique to Taylor, which is my next point. She is in the. Was in the exact same position everyone else was in, which is when you have something amazing and you want to make it big, you have one choice, no choice, which is to allow somebody else to own all of that intellectually, even though you might have created it so that they can give you a bunch of money or they can fund a tour and they can try to make you a thing, because it costs an enormous amount to become a thing. And so my issue with. With people singling out Taylor, to be.

Luke (39:23)

Clear, this is not an issue.

Rich (39:24)

I only have Swift, of course. Well, and so that. And that's it. So. But people really only one. She's the only one who made it out. She's the only one who's done what she's tried to do or what she has done. All of the other men and women who have tried to ascend to that level where they own they re. Own and they are in charge of their own destiny. They didn't get sucked into drugs. They didn't get killed or have some or fade away. She actually got through it and she's actually doing it. And so for society to now zoom in on her, the one young woman who did what everybody else has tried to do, and now they're applying this double standard to her, which I think a lot of women will recognize, based on my conversations with my wife and my daughter, is not a coincidence that she is facing a double standard that like people like Michael Jackson and I mean, we can talk about all the. All the male pop stars in the world, and they're all billionaires and they're all doing their own thing, and they're not. Nobody ever once came to them and said, why are you not fixing society the way that people are coming to Taylor Swift. So can she be a musician? Can she be a billionaire? Can she be a product of what is the innately bad capitalist system and still be a good person? I think it's all relative.

Tim (40:38)

She wasn't a good person.

Luke (40:39)

I said she wasn't a saint. And there's.

Rich (40:42)

I literally pray to her at night.

Luke (40:43)

She is, she is about as good as you can be as a billionaire. I mean she gave away like $250 million on her tour. That's great. No one is saying that's not. But like she's still a billionaire. She's still on a level that none of us will ever get to. And there is no way to get to that level ethically. Not at all. Whether it's selling merch that is from another country, that's not produced sustainably, that is priced exorbitantly.

Rich (41:07)

I mean it's Martha Stewart's clothes.

Luke (41:09)

Yeah. It's just not. It's not good. And I feel like it's not necessarily like the role model. At least that side of it isn't great.

Rich (41:19)

This is a really weird way to congratulate her on her engagement.

Luke (41:24)

Like the Heirs tour is awesome. Her music's good and I like her music and I think she's a tremendously successful individual.

Rich (41:31)

Should.

Luke (41:32)

But like from a moral perspective, I don't like the idea of being a billionaire.

Tim (41:36)

So let me ask you this. What should she have done to keep herself from being a billionaire?

Luke (41:40)

Look at Dolly Parton. She's single handedly embracing out Appalachia's literacy to keep herself from being a billionaire.

Tim (41:46)

Oh, I, well, but I, I bet if you looked at the amount of money that. I mean Dale, I. You certainly not going to get me to critique Dolly Parton who is by all accounts amazing. Amazing. No, amazing. First of all, amazing person, amazing songwriter. I mean she wrote Jolene and I Will Always Love youe in the same day. Just crazy, those two songs, which is insane. But I think that Taylor as probably as from a full philanthropic perspective is maybe not that far off because she has been.

Luke (42:18)

That's that's the thing. I think she does an a great job of it. But like you watch what she does now and it's like, okay, she's still hoarding wealth.

Rich (42:28)

I think. I think just like there's no ethical consumption in capitalism, there should be no billionaire idols. Is maybe another.

Luke (42:35)

That's what I. That's my opinion here.

Tim (42:37)

Okay. Okay.

Luke (42:37)

There's no billionaire items.

Rich (42:39)

I, I think Tim, we, we completely whiffed. We've really failed our, our responsibility to our listeners because we didn't contextualize this hot take adequately. So without anybody saying anything, Luke, why don't you tell us the top bands that you were talking about the other day, just so we can be clear.

Luke (42:59)

To be clear, music bands I was.

Tim (43:01)

Talking about are not words. You said your favorite. Your favorite bands of all time. Hall of Fame caliber.

Luke (43:09)

Favorite bands of all time. They were not included. That is.

Rich (43:12)

You can't rewrite history, Luke.

Luke (43:14)

They are my favorite gym bands. Maybe.

Tim (43:17)

Look. Okay, Luke, let's rock with yours.

Luke (43:19)

All right, we got.

Tim (43:21)

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on a second. Hold on a second.

Rich (43:23)

We're recording this, right?

Luke (43:25)

Let's go through my gym playlist.

Tim (43:26)

Here we go. Here we go. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Chris (43:28)

I'll be honest, guys. I. I struggled to hang on during the whole Taylor thing. I. I just honestly don't give a. About any of this. I'm. I'm trying to play along.

Luke (43:38)

We got. We got some Three Days Grace. God damn it.

Rich (43:43)

Okay, somebody take the DJ control.

Tim (43:47)

All right, I'm done. I'm done.

Luke (43:48)

All right, we got some. Some grace. There's not my favorite bands. That is a. That is a misnomer.

Rich (43:55)

These are Saints. These are.

Luke (43:56)

They're not Saints. These are people I listen to at the gym.

Rich (43:59)

They're called three. They're all Christian rock bands. They're called three rock bands.

Luke (44:04)

Metallica is not a Christian rock band. No, Led Zeppelin's not a Christian rock band.

Tim (44:08)

Oh, you're leading with all the good ones.

Luke (44:11)

Shined down is not a Christian rock band.

Rich (44:13)

I don't think, like, who's Shining Down?

Luke (44:15)

Oh, God damn it. Ozzy Osbourne. Not a Christian rock band. Breaking Benjamin. Not a Christian rock band. Disturbed, I don't like anymore because they're Trumpers. Sleep Token. What? Yeah, they're big Trumpers.

Tim (44:31)

Oh, I thought he was, like, a pro Israel guy, but I heard there was some. Some thing going on. But anyways, whatever.

Luke (44:37)

Sleep Token. Not Trumpers. And are good skillet Trumpers. Can't listen to them anymore. It's really shitty. There's a lot of them, Luke.

Tim (44:43)

This list is very different than yesterday.

Rich (44:45)

This list hasn't gotten to Nickelback.

Luke (44:46)

I talked about Nickelback. I like Nickelback. I'm not gonna apologize for liking Nickel.

Rich (44:51)

Who's the other one?

Luke (44:52)

Creed. I like Creed, too, and I'm not gonna apologize.

Tim (44:55)

Oh, God.

Luke (44:57)

But to be clear, those are not my favorite bands by any stretch. Those are the ones I listen to at the gym.

Tim (45:03)

Scott Stapps, your favorite vocalist of all time.

Chris (45:05)

Right?

Luke (45:05)

No, that's a lie.

Chris (45:07)

So on the topic of Saints, and again, this is a reach because I don't give a. About culture sound for music in that way. But Dave Grohl is. Is one of the most talented.

Rich (45:20)

Dave Grohl is amazing.

Chris (45:21)

He's fantastic exist. But he's also a. In his personal life apparently.

Tim (45:29)

Oh, you haven't heard about his child out of wedlock.

Luke (45:32)

Like Zach Bryant. Major piece of. He should be dragged way more than he is Dave.

Tim (45:38)

I. It's so on Dave. I agree. I don't know the family. Yeah, I saw that. It's awful. And I. I bought the first Foo Fighters album when it came out and I was like holy. Like what is this? And it turns out I didn't realize and I think even Kurt Cobain says he was the best guitarist in Nirvana. Like he is just a musical.

Chris (45:58)

The drummer of Rana.

Tim (45:59)

I don't know. But that's what I mean is that.

Rich (46:03)

He would play drummer, bassist, singer and a songwriter. He's written. I think he's the primary writer. If not maybe the soul writer in Foo Fighters as well. He's. He's just a. He's just a. I mean he's like a worse Taylor Swift, you know.

Tim (46:19)

Oh God, it's like the gens.

Chris (46:23)

Taylor still has time to do some up.

Luke (46:27)

I don't get the idolization of these like huge pop people. It. It's. Or even just pop culture people. It's gross. They get away with so much terrible. I mean no one should get away with.

Tim (46:38)

It's kind of almost like a religious experience. Right. And you're like. But I don't know what it is about. I mean music.

Luke (46:46)

Zach Brian should be dragged for cheating on his wife. What are some other terrible ones?

Tim (46:53)

I mean I think you could probably. Pretty much all the good ones are.

Rich (46:56)

Probably before we could get to the end of the list.

Luke (46:59)

There's just like. But they get. Or like Tom Cruise is a huge Scientologist nut bag and nobody cares about that. He's short and handsome.

Rich (47:08)

Problematic.

Luke (47:09)

Oh, Mel Gibson. Terrible person.

Chris (47:12)

Yeah. Yeah.

Luke (47:14)

John Wayne was an awful human being. And yet every 80 or 70 year old white dude loves John Wayne.

Tim (47:20)

By the way, how did we manage to let Luke get away with the Nickelback Creed stuff that we get completely sidetracked instead of just.

Luke (47:28)

I'm not going to apologize.

Rich (47:29)

He found a way to move on from that real quick. But we. I. I think speaking of moving on. See, that's how you pivot, Tim. If we're. If we have time for a get, I want to nominate somebody in real time right now. Because I saw, you know, after we found out that. That Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey were engaged.

Luke (47:47)

Oh, you're gonna nominate Charlie Kirk because I would really really very much like to do that.

Rich (47:51)

Charlie Kirk went on some dumb thing 10 times.

Luke (47:56)

The issue with Charlie Kirk saying what he does than anything that Taylor Swift 100 000. That is disgusting.

Rich (48:02)

Okay.

Chris (48:03)

Tell them so.

Tim (48:03)

Yeah.

Rich (48:04)

So he said that she should have more. She, she should have more children than she has houses. She, she and Travis should have a ton of kids. More children than houses. He said that he was hoping that Taylor Swift has so many children that then she gets out of the woke bubble that's in her head and lives in the real world and realizes that. That being a conservative Christian is good and that America and patriots want to claim Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey as their own and begged her to come over. And then what was the very last thing he he said I can't wait.

Luke (48:40)

To go to a Taylor Kelsey show.

Rich (48:43)

And said if you don't egg headed.

Luke (48:45)

Gum throated piece of just went on and on about how Taylor is, you know she needs to become the right.

Chris (48:53)

Wing queen and she needs.

Luke (48:55)

And I, I can't. I can't stand it. I cannot stand it. That's all. The list of things that he needs to get for isn't miles long. But this one's on the top. Near the top for me. I, I really hate this.

Tim (49:12)

It just shows you what they think of women.

Luke (49:14)

Exactly. Exactly.

Tim (49:17)

Subservient to men. That's it.

Luke (49:19)

Yep.

Tim (49:19)

Vessels for children.

Rich (49:20)

He specifically said obey your husband and if you don't change your name that means you're not committed. And it's not.

Luke (49:26)

You don't really care. And you don't really care. While I don't like Taylor's billionaire status as a role model, I think that's icky. I do think her status as a successful person and woman is super good. And it shits on that piece of Charlie Kirk all over it.

Tim (49:45)

Well, he's never done anything good.

Luke (49:46)

Yeah, he failed. He dropped out of community college.

Chris (49:49)

No guys is like I, I have a question on, on purity tests for, for us. Is it okay to talk about how Charlie Kirk's face is too small for his head?

Luke (50:03)

No.

Chris (50:04)

Like is, I mean is it okay.

Luke (50:05)

To talk about how it be talked about?

Tim (50:08)

I strongly approve of that.

Luke (50:10)

Like his teeth are too small so.

Chris (50:15)

I can't talk a whole lot of.

Rich (50:16)

About having a forehead or a five head.

Chris (50:18)

But like Charlie Kirk has a seven head.

Luke (50:20)

That's if he's got a landing strip.

Chris (50:23)

If he does this he's got to get like a whole other hand to cover his forehead. And in his eyes are like, you.

Luke (50:31)

Know, it is so funny though, that, like, he is so desperate to prove how much more, like, manly and, you know, hardcore he is than Taylor Swift. Same thing.

Rich (50:39)

That's where this is all coming from, right? Just trying to. He's trying to validate himself.

Tim (50:44)

Yeah, yeah. It's an inferiority complex.

Luke (50:48)

Losers.

Tim (50:49)

These.

Chris (50:50)

You guys ever seen the, the video of Ben Shapiro, like, almost knocking himself out?

Luke (50:55)

Yes.

Chris (50:56)

So.

Luke (50:56)

But it's still my favorite Ben Shapiro.

Chris (50:58)

Clip when he was in high school or college. He goes and he punches a speed bag, but he just punches it once and leans into it. So the speed bag bounces and hits him right in the face. He goes down, gets up crying and runs away.

Rich (51:13)

No thing ever.

Chris (51:15)

My favorite bench thing right there is why that insecurity that, that like, desire to prove you're tough and then instantly, literally nearly knocking yourself out. That is the entire arc of all of these MAGA influencers. Like, all of these pieces, like, men are dominant. Like, if my wife didn't take my last name, like, why should she? She has a career. She has. She has her own name. Yeah, like that. I, I'm not bothered by that.

Luke (51:46)

You're the biggest loser on the planet. Like, if you genuinely think, oh, it doesn't count if they don't take your last name, you're a piece of.

Tim (51:53)

I got a question for you.

Luke (51:54)

Yeah.

Tim (51:54)

Which is lamer? Caring about that or caring about the Cracker Barrel logo?

Luke (52:00)

Both are so lame. And I'm so disappointed in Cracker Barrel for capitulating to this.

Chris (52:05)

But, like, they bringing it back.

Luke (52:07)

They're bringing the old logo back.

Tim (52:08)

Yep. Yep. Oh, yeah.

Rich (52:10)

It's not Cracker.

Tim (52:11)

They should have leaned into it.

Luke (52:13)

I'm telling you. I want a shirt that says, I went pegging at Cracker Barrel.

Tim (52:19)

So should we put, should we put that in the store?

Chris (52:22)

So Pearl Mania 500. Is it Alex Perlman?

Luke (52:27)

Yeah, Alex.

Chris (52:28)

So the comedian Alex Perlman did a. A great video on Tick Tock and all the other video platforms where he, he tried to explain to. All of these people are upset about MAGA is why they're changing the branding. And that's because it's. It's a shareholder thing like Cracker Barrel, like every other big food company, McDonald's, taco bell, pizza Hut, who all used to have uniquely shaped physical assets, have removed that and turned them into square gray or tan boxes because they're easier to sell. Right. The. The land is an investment. The business, this, that goes on top of it. These multi billion dollar Corporations don't give a. About, you know, your, your eggs and bacon and shit. Like, your, Your gravy. They don't care about that. All they care about is the land. And the land that all of these cracker barrels are sitting on. These massive fucking parking lots, like just off of the interstates. That's worth a lot of. And transforming everything into a square box makes it so that one day they can go. Cracker barrel doesn't exist anymore. Our shareholders all got the out of here. So all of this, like, it's. Oh, it's woke stuff is, is. It's always nonsense. But these just need to understand, like, dude, you are. You are in love with a corporation. That corporation doesn't love you. Like, stop it. Stop it. It's just all they care about is the literal space that the parking lot is taking up. You as a human being don't matter to them. And the, the old man sitting next to a barrel. The cracker, I guess, and the barrel.

Luke (54:10)

God damn it.

Chris (54:12)

They don't care about you.

Tim (54:14)

It's not a real person. It's just a drawing. Like, who gives? Like, I, I don't even worry.

Luke (54:21)

Like, the idolization of people. The idolization of these corporations is just disgusting.

Tim (54:27)

Yeah.

Rich (54:28)

Is going to save my marriage. You guys.

Luke (54:32)

Chicken only tastes so good because it's powered by homophobia.

Tim (54:37)

I will not eat there.

Luke (54:38)

I don't eat there either. It's powered by hate. I will not eat there.

Tim (54:42)

They do use their money for bad. They use their money, their profits.

Luke (54:44)

Terrible.

Tim (54:45)

For bad things.

Rich (54:47)

We didn't get the payoff, Luke. So we got a backup real quick. We didn't finish the segment.

Tim (54:52)

Boy, this episode is something.

Chris (54:53)

No, no, no.

Rich (54:53)

We need. We need to. We need to tie it off. We talked about Charlie Kirk. We talked around Charlie Kirk, but we never invited Charlie Kirk to get. And there it is. That's all I was. It was like a. It's like this unresolved equation.

Luke (55:10)

We gotta take that away from him. He can't be allowed.

Chris (55:17)

People don't, like, leave us for this episode, guys. Then I. I don't know whether to be happy or upset about it.

Rich (55:26)

Loyalty test.

Tim (55:26)

I. I think that we might have to put a warning on the front of this for people with epilepsy because the whiplash that you're going to get from the beginning of this to the end is. It's going to be like a Donald Trump rally. We don't know where anything's going, the next.

Luke (55:39)

Next moment.

Rich (55:40)

But we do know where this is going because you still have to make your pitch.

Tim (55:46)

Yes. Well, if you. If you're still with us, folks, we've got a. I've got a couple of announcements that are really important. One, we announced this the other day, but we have new merch in the store, which is selling incredibly well. It turns out when we spend a little time and design stuff, people are more willing to buy it, which is great. And we thank everybody for doing that. I think yesterday was our biggest sales day ever. So thank you. Really cool shirts. What?

Rich (56:13)

Four.

Tim (56:14)

Four new shirts. Two of them are both the top sellers. They're both like tied, which is the one with all of our faces and the one with the tree, which is my favorite. I like the tree.

Luke (56:24)

Can I bring up the feedback about that one shirt?

Rich (56:26)

Yeah.

Chris (56:26)

Why don't you like the. Why isn't the one with the faces your favorite, Tim?

Tim (56:33)

He's not going to answer. That's all the time we have today, everybody. So the Find out channel, that's not the right one.

Chris (56:43)

The Find out team has a slack. That's how we communicate because we're a business. Right. So we have a channel that is listener feedback and some of the feedback that we got. And this I think is okay. Yeah, it's safe to say. Right? Where'd it go? Merch channel.

Tim (57:00)

I've forgotten the specifics because I think I blacked out after I.

Chris (57:03)

So Jess, Amen says to us. Just listened on Apple podcasts. I immediately went and did the public comment thing for the women VA healthcare issue. So thank you, Jess. Thanks for bringing that to light. I also checked up in new merch. Whichever face is on the left. Tim looks like he is emoji with the mouth cover. Something. Haha. So if you haven't seen this shirt and you want to. And you maybe even want to wear it on your chest, it is available at Findout subs find out podcast.com sorry, I screwed up the end of.

Rich (57:40)

And I want people to post in the comments. What is it? Finish the sentence.

Luke (57:44)

What is it that Tim looks like he's doing? What does Tim look like he's doing?

Tim (57:48)

I think it was a. I think there was. I think that photo had degraded.

Rich (57:51)

I don't think that was the.

Chris (57:53)

Blame the photo.

Tim (57:54)

God, I'm gonna see that goddamn shirt on the street someday and I'm gonna swear at somebody. It's gonna be a. It's gonna be someone that likes the show and then I'm gonna be in a lot of trouble.

Rich (58:02)

I'm gonna get one of those sheriff badges. I'm Just going to put it right over your face on the. Because it's on the far right. And so the rest, you know are they all look pretty good. I mean I don't look good, but that's just me. But you know, you pretty sick shirt. We could have saved you. And yet this happened.

Chris (58:22)

Looked at it and approved.

Tim (58:24)

You know what?

Chris (58:24)

So it's all I'm just a regular person.

Tim (58:28)

It's fine. You know what? Like I, I am fine if I look terrible. I'm still not a little unclear what they thought I was doing. I got some ideas but you know, I promise you that that was a drawing. I did not sit for that photo.

Rich (58:43)

It was not important like for like six days.

Tim (58:46)

Like the whole thing, you know, Chris was sitting there. Not this Chris, but the other Chris sitting there drawing my face as I'm wherever I was. I think that's a good advertisement to go check out the store guys just don't buy that shirt or maybe do.

Rich (58:58)

If you like that ironically buy it.

Chris (59:00)

On becomes the most popular. And I'm, I'm relatively the in charge of merch guy kind of sort of if, if that becomes the most popular of the shirts, we are also going to use that print on the hoodie. So whether you're bullying or supporting Tim.

Luke (59:19)

Tim by himself.

Rich (59:20)

Just him. Just tim. Like a 2 foot by 2 foot square of just him right in the middle of the hoodie.

Tim (59:25)

We ever do a live show and I see people in the audience wearing that, I'm going to lose my mind. But you know, maybe you should go buy it because maybe I will turn into a prima donna and stomp my fe feet and make you take it down. So like maybe it's only there for a limited time. We don't know.

Rich (59:37)

It's a limited edition.

Tim (59:39)

There are many other options to choose from as well, which I think are good. And the other pitch now I think we're getting the hell out of here is to be a become a paid member of our substack. We are trying to build this into something really big and really special which we're already on our way. But in order to do that we need to make some money on it so you can get it for $6 a month. We're talking about adding some per for doing so which we will do soon. The show will always be free but there will may be some additional things that we add so you can go to find out find out podcast.substack.com check that out. Find out podcast.com for really great merch and one okay shirt. And I think that's it for today, guys. I appreciate you sticking with us. This was a roller coaster today.

Luke (60:29)

It was.

Tim (60:30)

But I think, I think some really good conversations. So it's going to be out on Thursday. So everybody have a great weekend, and we will be back next week with two new episodes. Talk to you soon.