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The Find Out Podcast
The Gerrymandering War is Here (featuring Texas Rep. Greg Casar)
00:48:56
Congressman Greg Casar joins the show to explain what’s happening on the ground as Greg Abbott tries to erase democratic districts in Texas, why this fight matters nationally, and how Democrats can finally hit back.
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- [00:00]
Host 1
Foreign. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Find out podcast. Got big, big topics today. We're going to have Congressman Greg Ksar on later in the show talking about the shameful power play that Governor Abbott in Texas is trying to do with this ridiculous gerrymander effort. But before that, we want to talk about something even more ridiculous, which is Donald Trump firing the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics commissioner because she counted the jobs and then reported how many jobs we gained in July, which was not many. It was 73,000. And I think the thing that angered him was the revisions for June and May or worse, going down 258,000. So Trump's economy's not doing too well. And so his reaction was to fire the woman that literally was handed the number and reported it out.
- [01:06]
Host 2
Yep, that's pretty much it. And, like, I want to just stress this. In August of 2024, three weeks after Kamala Harris became the nominee, the same Exact person Erica McIntarfer revised down the previous year for the Biden administration by 818,000 jobs. If this woman was politically motivated, she did a terrible job for Biden And Kamala Harris, let's just start there.
- [01:28]
Host 3
And he said that. And he. That she did it to hurt him after the election. That. That, like, she had done something to help Harrison. It's like, dude, you can't like the headlines, how it works. Six months, seven months old, they're right there. We can all go see it. You can't just rewrite history. Like, I know that's what he's literally trying to do, firing her is let's rewrite history. But no, the blade cuts both ways. And he's, you know, 10 years into being president and not president and talking about the economy, he still doesn't understand that sometimes things happen that he doesn't like. And you can't just. You can't just fire people and make bad things go away.
- [02:05]
Host 4
No quote from 1984. Their last final order was telling you to ignore what's right in front of your fucking face. Exactly what it is.
- [02:12]
Host 1
Yep.
- [02:13]
Host 2
There's no question. And he had. I saw. What's his name, Kevin Hassett or whatever one of his economic advisors was on msnbc. Like, and they're like, okay, so do you have any evidence that she manipulated the numbers? And he's like, well, the number is the evidence. Like, that's not how it works.
- [02:26]
Host 4
The number being a bad.
- [02:27]
Host 1
Would you prefer it be a lot?
- [02:28]
Host 2
That's right.
- [02:29]
Host 3
We know in our heart that the economy is doing well. And in Our heart of hearts. I have a deeply, deeply held belief that the economy is thriving under Trump, and I refuse to understand.
- [02:41]
Host 5
Counting vibes. Economy yippers, right?
- [02:47]
Host 3
But how much do you like the job that you still have? If you're lucky enough to have a job, if you like it a lot, then you know it makes up for it.
- [02:55]
Host 1
So, like, everything counts as two jobs then. So, like everything with Trump, he, he is, he is hope. He is hoping to play off of people's lack of understanding of how these numbers are counted, to throw, to throw chaos into it so they don't believe it. And so that 800,000 did happen, but, like, every month that they release numbers, they revise the numbers from the months before because guess what, guys, There isn't a magic. Like, I created a job form that everybody fills out. It is based.
- [03:26]
Host 3
No one considered that. We should try that.
- [03:28]
Host 1
Yeah, you should just do that. Yeah, sure.
- [03:30]
Host 4
There's no way that.
- [03:31]
Host 1
Set up a, Just set up a Google form and have them fill it out.
- [03:33]
Host 3
Trump is just sitting there filling it out. Plus one, plus one, plus one.
- [03:37]
Host 4
He's got like the same, same thousand FBI agents that work billions and billion are now doing this.
- [03:41]
Host 1
But, but that's, but I think that's what he's, that's how he, you know, he's obviously, first of all, he wants no one to believe the numbers now because they're going to be bad. So, like, he wants to do that, but a lot of people don't understand because they're like, well, why they revise the other ones by 258,000. I'm like, they do it every month because it is a survey. It'. Sample. And so it is not, it is not a. And then as it goes along, it gets better and they're able to revise up and revise down every month. They release the jobs numbers every Friday, the first Friday of every month, they release the jobs numbers from that month and the revisions for a few months back. So this is literally what they do every month. It's just that people, especially Trumpers, don't pay any attention to it. So now they're like, well, why did the. And it's like, well, that's how it works. It's how it's always worked.
- [04:26]
Host 4
Everything is a conspiracy when you don't understand how anything works.
- [04:29]
Host 2
Right, Exactly.
- [04:30]
Host 3
It's also, it's also a seasonally adjusted. And so especially in the summer and around the holidays, when you have these big swings and like a million or 2 million jobs, you don't Want to just say the economy lost a million jobs in January because if the job, if, if those jobs were just created in November at like, or like, like October at the Spirit of Halloween store, that's not a cause for panic. That is a normal cycle. And so, but, but those things take a minute for smart people with really smart calculators to actually suss out exactly what happened. And that's why they adjust up and down in the aftermath. But again, you have to understand that hard things are hard and there's not just this, like, graph somewhere that shows you how many jobs there are in real time at all times to understand any of this.
- [05:19]
Host 2
I hate, I like to me this is at least for like the area that I focus on in politics. This is the worst moment I've seen in a while for like Trump doing fascist shit because, like, in the end he's going to hire somebody to do this job who is going to do whatever he says because nobody now is going to feel safe reporting the actual numbers because they're going to continue to be bad and the revisions are going to continue to happen. How do you trust government data now? That's an extremely difficult question. You can't anymore and that's going to mess up so many different things. It's impossible to. It's just. I don't even know how far it can go.
- [05:55]
Host 1
Well, we're going to have to. There's a couple of ways that you can kind of back into the number, I think. One, the payroll company ADP releases their numbers. So those aren't as good and they tend to be off a bit. But the other thing is all publicly traded companies have to announce the hirings and firings that they make. Right? So like, it is a pain in the ass to go through and like go through the Fortune 500 or whatever and like figures out. Yeah, but like, I'm sure somebody is going to figure out some way to like crunch the numbers. And then the other piece of this, that is really dumb. And let's be honest, most of what Trump does is really dumb, is that he has to have a confirmation fight for this new commissioner. So he's. All he's going to do is shine a. Because the Democrats are not going to go along with this, right? And so like he's going to have hearings in which they're going to be all of these clips of him like putting up some idiot probably, like, I don't know, Dan Cavino or somebody as c. Former caddy and social media guy. Maybe he's going to go cat for him now. Like, yeah, I'm surprised she doesn't have billions and billions.
- [06:57]
Host 3
Infinity, infinity, trillion jobs were created in July, August.
- [07:03]
Host 1
Yeah. Libs of TikTok gets a job. I don't know. But like, you know, it's just stupid. It doesn't serve him. And like we're going to get the numbers in another way. So it's not actually helping. All he did was show that he's scared.
- [07:16]
Host 3
Yeah.
- [07:16]
Host 1
Because that's what it is.
- [07:17]
Host 3
I think the biggest thing is going to be. I was just verifying this. There are over 2,000 people work at BLS.
- [07:25]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [07:25]
Host 3
And the person, the commissioner, believe it or not, is not the one sending out the surveys and tabulating the numbers. They're just running the organization. So you got 2,000 people, most of whom are like PhD level economists. Are they all going to now agree to just lie about the data? Like these are people, their lives on data. So the person at the topsy, they're going to have to lie about what their employees are collecting.
- [07:53]
Host 2
Right.
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Host 3
Or everyone has to lie or this is just not going to work out for Trump.
- [07:57]
Host 1
Which is I think as somebody who worked in a political position in the federal government for five years at the Interior Department like I did, we used to joke every time we sent an email from the secretary to everybody at interior, which is 70, 75,000 people, that within five minutes we will get called by the press because they will have leaked it. Like because that's I, I and I understand it like there is a mistrust on the career side of political appointees and in this case very realistic. But even with us who tend to lean more in their way, like we did something they didn't like they would tell the press. So like these guys and women are not going to just sit on their hands and go, well, my job's meaningless now and I'm just making up. No, no, no, no to they will find ways and those politicals will have no idea how to find them. Like they're just good at this. Like they are there to protect the government. They are not there to protect the political party. So if you start messing with their thing, they're going to mess with you right back.
- [08:54]
Host 5
Are you trying to tell me that some 19 year old doge like Hanger on isn't going to be able to find one of the many thousands of federal employees who leaked to the press? Like, you know, is that what you're.
- [09:06]
Host 1
Trying to argue as much as that, what is it? As much as I think big balls Was that his name? Yeah. Or Big Balls with the Z. I like, I expect these guys to put on like fake mustaches and the glasses and they're going undercover. Like they just facial hair yet so.
- [09:23]
Host 4
They gotta put fake ones on.
- [09:24]
Host 1
Yeah. I mean Big Balls is actually closer to your age than my age. But like, you know, he, he, most of them are.
- [09:29]
Host 3
He's gonna get a monocle and start reporting on economic jobs.
- [09:33]
Host 1
Numbers thing out of the corner of his mouth.
- [09:35]
Host 4
This is what happened on Park Place.
- [09:37]
Host 1
Yeah. No, it's just there are, there are like a million or million and a half federal employees like you or whatever, whatever it is like you. And there's only a few thousand political appointees. It is not possible. And also these are smart people. These aren't idiots at like on the career side. Like you put like a 19 year old kid who Elon has like said go run wild, they will eat him alive.
- [09:58]
Host 2
Oh yeah.
- [09:58]
Host 1
Like, it's part of the reason we have found out recently last week the Doge actually cost more money than it cut because of all of the benefits they had to pay and all of the like early termination stuff. Like they didn't save us any money, they just shifted it around, right?
- [10:13]
Host 3
Nobody.
- [10:14]
Host 1
Well, how do I, when do I.
- [10:15]
Host 4
Get my 600 check though? Because I'm pretty sure they had a check coming from here.
- [10:19]
Host 3
It's a Doge slash tariff rebate check.
- [10:22]
Host 4
Oh, this is some.
- [10:23]
Host 1
For those of you who are not on Tick Tock, there was all right wing Tick Tock was a flutter about a five thousand. Five thousand. That's how five thousand dollar rebate check that literally no one announced.
- [10:36]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [10:36]
Host 1
And all of a sudden it like spread like wildfire. Like Trump's going to give me $5,000 back. And I'm like, that was your Doge check.
- [10:44]
Host 2
That was from the dude that I used to have a podcast with. That was the Doge dividend checks that he didn't like he came up with this number of like if you do it this way, Everybody can get $5,000 and everybody just fucking exploded with that number.
- [10:55]
Host 1
But the math, the math never math. Like 5000 times 300.
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Host 2
It was based on exclude a ton of people. And you like households with certain tax thresholds and we save $2 trillion.
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Host 4
But nobody heard that people.
- [11:11]
Host 2
No, of course not. $5,000 because then that is the correct number. But all those things are impossible, right?
- [11:17]
Host 1
Well, the, the 500 or $600 check was because was the tariff which is paying people back back their own taxes paid it increased costs due to the tariffs. So it's like you're not actually, I guess it is technically a rebate because you paid something and it is a reback. But I gotta, I gotta applaud Trump.
- [11:39]
Host 3
For getting his own people who are by and large like poor white people in red states. Like, let's be honest, like that's, that's like the bulk of MAGA to, to celebrate a tax hike on themselves. Like 150 billion he's brought in or something.
- [11:55]
Host 1
Billion so far. And they're like, they call it revenue, it's not taxes.
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Host 5
They're like regressive tax. That means the opposite of progressive.
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Host 1
We're going with regressive tax.
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Host 4
My wallet hurts, though.
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Host 3
They're just going to call it the regressive party. It's going to be the progressive versus the.
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Host 4
I said that on fucking Thanksgiving. That they should be called the regressives because they have no interest in conserving anything.
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Host 3
No, definitely not.
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Host 1
Well, they want to conserve millionaire billionaire wealth. That's the one thing.
- [12:22]
Congressman Greg Ksar
Right.
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Host 1
Because it really likes magazines, are poor, are poor white people. But like the other end is doing.
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Host 3
The work for Peter Thiel.
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Host 1
Yeah, yeah, Peter Thiel and you know.
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Host 3
Elon server farms, they're all just temporarily inconvenienced billionaires. As soon as they invent that, that thing, then they're going to need those, those tax deductions on their, their jets and their yachts. It's just a matter of time.
- [12:45]
Host 1
Yeah, that bill sucks.
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Host 4
Was that Twain that said that?
- [12:48]
Host 3
I think it was.
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Host 1
There's so much stupid around all that.
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Host 4
Only more people could read Mark Twain and actually understand it.
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Host 1
The second part of that is the key.
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Host 4
Yeah. You can't just look at the words.
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Host 1
Yeah. Too many people.
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Host 4
Spark noted their way through high school.
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Host 3
I think, and now it's AI, so it's even getting worse.
- [13:07]
Host 1
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think we, you know, I, I actually forgo. I, I'm actually one of those nerds that get excited to see the jobs report come out at 8:30am every Friday. Like whatever. Like, you know. But I'm really curious about the ones in September because the other part that's no one really is talking about, we've talked about a few times is like the fact that the summer is when all of the international travelers come to the United States and those numbers have plummeted. This year.
- [13:31]
Host 4
Vegas was down 40 compared to last year.
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Host 1
Vegas is down 14, I believe New York City is down. Mark Levine, the Manhattan borough president, tweeted it. I think it's we're down 12% pre Covid numbers. 12% when you're talking about billions of dollars is devastating.
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Host 5
Yeah.
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Host 1
So I.
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Host 4
Why would anybody want to fucking come here?
- [13:50]
Host 1
Well, that's. Well, no, they're literally afraid. Yeah. Like, they're afraid.
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Host 4
They have valid reason to be afraid, of course.
- [13:55]
Host 1
And the Europeans, who spend a lot of money, and the. The Asians, Japan, China, Korea, all of. Like, all. No, no one's coming from either side because they are afraid of masked men that don't show identification throwing them in a van, and then they end up in Sudan, which.
- [14:10]
Host 3
Show me one video where that's actually happened. That is not happening. That is not the America I know and love. There's no evidence anyone has been deported, rightfully or wrongfully. We're all celebrating here.
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Host 1
See how easy it is to slip right into that? That's why so many people cave and go to the right and sell out. I think it's just really.
- [14:28]
Host 3
It feels better to say the truth.
- [14:31]
Host 4
Like, the ease with which it would be to lie.
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Host 2
Oh, yeah.
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Host 1
It's so simple. Well, we talk about Candace Owens, right?
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Host 4
Trump gave Caroline Levitt a big. Like, he was almost hitting on her.
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Host 2
Yeah.
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Host 1
It was nasty.
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Host 4
And all that. All that comes out of her is lies.
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Host 3
She does kind of look like Tiffany.
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Host 2
Yeah.
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Host 4
I think her lips get a little smaller every time she lies.
- [14:52]
Host 1
Luke tell people what he said about Caroline.
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Host 4
He was, like, commenting on her lips and.
- [14:56]
Host 1
Oh, the way sheer lips.
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Host 3
Gross.
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Host 2
Like, no upper lip, too.
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Host 1
Like, I'm telling you, they get smaller.
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Host 4
Every time she lies.
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Host 1
Those. Those lip lips. And they move.
- [15:06]
Congressman Greg Ksar
Oh, when they move.
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Host 1
Yeah. It was like. I was like, are we in the 1940s, like, crime?
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Host 4
I mean, he's living life like that. That's what the dimension does to you, right? You start acting like you did so long ago.
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Host 3
He probably watches the conferences on mute, you know, and just, like, watches her talk.
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Host 2
Yeah, that's okay.
- [15:22]
Host 1
Well, yeah.
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Host 4
Clammy hands.
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Host 1
He also, like, he likes the fact that she's married to a much older man.
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Host 2
I was gonna say all about control.
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Host 1
Not Trump. Not Trump. Age, not trump. It's like 25. Different. Yeah, well, she's 20 for me.
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Host 2
Yeah, well.
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Host 1
Well, that for Trump. That bar is not very high, as we've talked about before.
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Host 3
Luke, did you just say you're old enough for Trump? No, in a roundabout way, I'm.
- [15:46]
Host 4
I'm a little too old for him, I think.
- [15:50]
Host 1
Oh, okay. Well, I think we're gonna. Let's. Let's do the worst pivot ever. Let's, let's go off of this. The biggest story in the country right now is the situation unfolding in Texas. What has happened is essentially because of all the storms that happened a few weeks ago. You know, the ones where some mega districts didn't buy the, the equipment to, like, find out when things are happening fast. And it turns out one of the people that was supposed to be monitoring it was sleeping anyways in that state. They had a special. They opened a special session in order to provide funds and do work to help those communities. But Greg Abbott, the governor there, horrible human being, decided with Trump that, hey, because the special session is open, we actually can redo the 2020 gerrymandering. Well, or the redistricting, I should say gerrymander.
- [16:43]
Host 3
The gerrymander.
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Host 1
That's, you know, you have to redistrict every 10 years because populations change. You have to make sure people have the relative representation based on population. They've decided to do it early and they are going to do the most extreme gerrymander. These maps, they look more like rivers because of the way that they're, like, drawn so narrowly. And they've actually said. And I spoke with Texas state Rep. I'm gonna, I'm gonna mess up her name, but I'm gonna try Gina Idahosa. I think I did it right on Friday or Thursday. And she said, they've actually said one of the reasons they're doing this is to eliminate districts where brown and black people are in the majority. So that. So we're doing racial gerrymandering. Well, they're trying to do.
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Host 5
The Supreme Court threw out civil rights laws that, that used to federal legislation that used to stop the states. I should be specific. Stop Southern states from deliberately disenfranchising people according to their race.
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Host 1
Yeah, John Roberts. Yeah, John. John Roberts said that racism was over. That's in his ruling. He literally was like, that is passed. I mean, I'm not sort of paraphrasing.
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Host 2
I was gonna say. Did he really say that, like verbatim?
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Host 3
No.
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Host 1
He basically said, this is not a problem anymore, so we don't need it.
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Host 2
Oh, cool.
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Host 1
Which is to say there is no more reason.
- [18:01]
Host 4
Yeah.
- [18:02]
Host 2
Nice. That's great.
- [18:03]
Host 1
Yes.
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Host 4
Don't look for it, but I don't.
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Host 1
Know if you guys know, none of us are attorneys, but like, this Supreme Court did overturn the Alabama maps in the last. Go around and made them redo them.
- [18:14]
Host 2
Yep.
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Host 1
So I guess my question is, is the Supreme Court just going to be that nakedly partisan? Which is definitely possible. And Basically saying, oh well, that was different. And we're just going to let them take five, it's five Democratics. They will, Democrats will lose five seats, including Jasmine Crockett's seat if they are successful. Like, you know.
- [18:33]
Host 3
Well, hang on. But let's, let's be very, very clear. What they will do is they will cut the district so that it appears to be favored for the Republican candidate by 5, 10 points. Those, those people still have to vote. You don't just get the seat and.
- [18:50]
Host 4
It doesn't just happen immediately.
- [18:52]
Host 3
Right. There are a lot of things to like voters could potentially swamp this if they think, well we're going to get this +5 because you got to cut it real thin if you're going to, if you're going to water down all your majority by 5 points or so, maybe 10 points. So they're not winning 60, 40 everywhere they're winning. If you want the, if you want all the seats, you got to be a little more risky. If they think they're going to win 53, 54% of the vote in a district that's a matter of a couple of people choosing to stay home or not or a big momentum shift and it could potentially cost them more seats because they're spreading their, their safe Republican voters more thinly.
- [19:29]
Host 1
It's possible. And the, the thing though that I think may, may stop them is that, well, Gavin Newsom has basically around and find out. Well, he said, and like we've, we have been critical of him in the past but on this one he was like, you know what guys, I can figure out how to draw maps that make all of our districts blue. All of them. And how many seats are there in how many members of congress in California? 52. And it's like 30.
- [19:57]
Host 3
Yeah.
- [19:58]
Host 1
5. 15 or something like. And then New York, Kathy Hochul came out today and said game on. I think she literally said game on or bring it. And I was like, now New York's is different because they have to, they have to amend the Constitution. And then there's a two year period. So like it wouldn't be for 2026, but it would be for 2028. So between new York and California and Illinois, which already has pretty, pretty gerrymander districts in the blue favor. But and a couple other places like you're talking about getting rid of a lot of Republican seats plus the backlash Rich that you're talking about, it could be a really stupid thing to do.
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Host 4
Because you've seen what there's that with the vote right I mean, I'm sure you all did. What do you mean, the Texas lawmakers flew off instead of voting?
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Host 2
Yeah.
- [20:43]
Host 1
Oh, yeah. So they. And we'll talk to Congressman Quesar about this in a minute. But essentially, in order to break the quorum, you have to leave, which means that I think they're in session. They have to leave the state. State. Right, right. And so all of the Democrats have left, and they are all. Currently. This is where having a governor of a state that owns hotels is really convenient, which is the Pritzker family. They are all held up in Illinois right now. And Greg Abbott is threatening to arrest them.
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Host 2
Right.
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Host 1
And charge them with Class 2 felonies. I believe so.
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Host 4
Dog Darren.
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Host 1
Right? Yeah. You want. Then he was talking about maybe voiding their. Like. Like, basically, like impeaching them.
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Host 3
And there's, like, what they have. There's nothing they can do because it's not a crime. Yeah. Not a crime to arrest them for.
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Host 2
I don't get it.
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Host 3
It is literally just dereliction of duty.
- [21:32]
Host 1
I think it is.
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Host 3
But it's not a crime to break quorum. Like, what they're doing is. Is very much not a crime, and there's just nothing they can do about it.
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Host 4
The craziest cope I've seen about it from the right is I saw somebody that was whining about how expensive the plane was, that they took, that it was $17,000 an hour to fly them all to Illinois. And I have one fucking question. Where's your fucking whining about Trump? Because it's like $140 million in golf fees so far.
- [22:03]
Host 3
What about the. The. What is it? The billion dollar gift that they're gonna. Yeah, from the billion dollars.
- [22:09]
Host 1
Another billion dollars to fix it. Yeah. And the thing that. I don't know if a lot of people know this, but, like, the thing about Trump was when he goes to Bedminster or when he goes to Mar a Lago and he plays golf, the secret. I kid you not, the Secret Service, when they use the golf carts, they have to pay the golf course to use them. It's not that they let them use them to keep him safe. The government is paying Trump for the golf carts to keep Trump safe. So the corruption, like, people talk about the bitcoin stuff, which is fair, and like auto crypto and like all this, but like, every time he goes to bed, Mr. In particular, he gets paid, like, great. Yeah. So he's like, I don't take a salary. I'm like, you charged, like, hundreds of thousands of dollars in golf Cart fees in your first term, which basically made up for the 400 grand that you didn't take as a salary. And all these people, like, he doesn't take a salary. I'm like, yeah, there's a reason for that.
- [23:02]
Host 3
But no, I mean, it's, it's all the distractions. But yeah, it. I would just looked it up to verify it. And Newsom, they have 52 seats right now. Democrats hold 43 of them. So they can, they can get nine back. And he, he. He drew out a 52 to 0 map. Like, do you want to do this? Do you want to have this conversation? Because Illinois and New York. I just saw the governor of New York is also expressed interest or the, the willingness to throw out their, Their bipartisan redistricting commission or nonpartisan. If, if we want to play that game and we want to swamp, you know, the. More people live in blue states than red states. I don't think they remember this, but we can.
- [23:43]
Host 5
I know of a couple who are actually trying to, to organize this.
- [23:50]
Host 1
Oh. Oh, well, yes. Well, this weekend we start. We started. I did, but we, we started a petition. At first it was to encourage Kathy Hochul to, To do this. And now that she's doing it, it's to show her that we have her back. And it's. You can sign it, and anybody can sign it. You can sign it at gerrymander new york.com gerrymander new york dot com all spelled out. And we're going to deliver those petitions to her and say, we've got your back. We want you to do. Anytime a politician takes a stand on something that's like this, it can be a political liability, especially with the other side of the aisle. And, you know, she, I, I think she's gonna coast next year, but, you know, you never know. And so, like, sign. Adding your name and saying yes. Because, like, we weren't the ones that started this. We don't want to do this. But Democrats are finally standing up and fighting back, and I love it. And Kathy Hochul, like, I, you know, I've said some critical things of her in the past, too, but, like, she is standing up and doing the absolute right thing here. I don't like gerrymandering. I think we should have a national law and, like, national independent commissions to actually do the maps. But if they're going to play this.
- [24:53]
Host 5
Game, them, I think that we can do this ethically. Like, these Democratic states can design trigger laws that are basically like, okay, when. When the other side starts playing, you know, by the old rules and norms. Again, we will, too. Right.
- [25:11]
Host 4
But you can tell then you cut a seat, I'm gonna cut your seat.
- [25:14]
Host 5
Exactly. We punish bad behavior and incentivize good behavior at the same time.
- [25:19]
Host 1
Time. Right.
- [25:20]
Host 4
We.
- [25:20]
Host 5
We are going to lead by example, not by giving up, which is kind of like what Democrats have historically done, being like, why won't they play by the rules? Instead? We're going to say we're going to punish Republicans by completely disenfranchising them until Republicans stop disenfranchising Democrats.
- [25:38]
Host 1
Yep.
- [25:38]
Host 5
Right. We're just going to play by the same rules that they are.
- [25:42]
Host 3
It's already having an. It's already having an effect because one of the Republicans in California who would lose his seat, Kevin Kiley, has said that he's going to introduce legislation that would ban all states, including Texas. Of course, he didn't say the word Texas in. In his statement. He's complaining about Newsom in California. But regardless, it would. It would ban all states from redrawing congressional districts in the middle of a decade.
- [26:07]
Host 4
So it always comes back to selfishness.
- [26:09]
Host 1
Of course.
- [26:10]
Host 4
That's what it always is.
- [26:11]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [26:12]
Host 3
So if we want to have the rest of this conversation, let's actually do the thing and protect democracy and then let's go the rest of the way and maybe put in, you know, ranked choice voting, get rid of the electoral college. Like, there's.
- [26:23]
Host 1
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
- [26:23]
Host 4
You're sounding pretty like a radical left woke lefty.
- [26:28]
Host 3
I. I woke up feeling especially beta soy today.
- [26:31]
Host 4
So he got up on the left.
- [26:32]
Host 1
Side of the bed.
- [26:34]
Host 3
Oh, weird. I do actually sleep on the left side of the bed.
- [26:37]
Host 1
But here's the. Here's the. Here's the message, though. It's work. Democrats have been told. We have been telling Democrats for years. Fight back.
- [26:44]
Host 2
Yep.
- [26:45]
Host 1
And they're fighting back and they're getting results. So this is the path, folks. Like, like, when Republicans do something bad, do it back to them.
- [26:53]
Host 3
I think that's the problem, though, is that, like so many Democrats, especially, like, if you're raised in a pacifist family, like, fighting back is like, I'm going to write a strongly worded letter to the editor. And that is, like, how reasonable people fight back. And I think we're finally understanding that.
- [27:08]
Host 1
You get kicked in the teeth.
- [27:09]
Host 4
You kick them back in the teeth.
- [27:11]
Host 1
Yeah. Yeah.
- [27:11]
Host 2
Well, I mean, that's, that's the nuance is like, it's not so much fighting back to me. It's playing dirty because Republicans are playing dirty and Democrats have Historically been like, no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna be above the fray. It's like, no, fuck that. I will play as dirty as they're willing to play. And I think this is a good step in the right direction towards what Democrats really have to do is set the fucking tempo. They have not been setting the tempo. Republicans set the tempo. We're just learning how to respond to it. We need to be the aggressors, the ones who start the feud the right way. And we're not doing that yet, but this is a step towards doing that.
- [27:40]
Host 5
Yeah, this right here. I, I think the way that Democrats are responding to the idea that maybe we should redistrict if Republicans, Republicans are going to do it kind of goes into how popular on TikTok Suzanne Lambert is, right? This, this like, we're done being nice to you thing is, is not just good politics, but it's entertaining as like, I, I love Suzanne Lambert's like taking down Nancy Mace. Those are some of my favorite videos. And Mace just announced, I think, right, that she just announced that she's running for governor. I cannot wait. I, I hope that Suzanne Lambert, she is a comedian by trade. I hope that she goes to Nancy Mace's state and just does comedy shows across across the street from wherever Mace's fundraisers are, they will have tremendous crowds. Everyone will literally be laughing so loud that no one can hear Nancy Mace screeching her, you know, anti trans hatred. And it will be a beautiful thing for more Democrats to understand. You have to be mean to Republicans. You can't be nice.
- [28:54]
Host 2
Right?
- [28:55]
Host 3
And then we've got Lissandra, who was our first guest on this show, who does the, the Levitt. And now she's doing Kristi Noem. And she's, she's branched out and her, her impersonations are phenomenal. And she's, I think she's just in Georgia, so maybe she can, you know, go up, up, go up the, the coast and they can tag team team it.
- [29:14]
Host 1
So I did a, I did a video on the Nancy Mace thing yesterday. Or was that this morning she announced? Maybe it was this morning. I actually think there's a bet there's a, there's an opportunity because her district isn't that red. So it opens up a potential door for somebody. I think it's a plus seven. So like, that is fair game. And I don't think having Nancy Mace and Lindsey Graham at the top of the ticket in South Carolina is going to like, drive a lot of Republican turnout Because, frankly, both of them have completely changed their positions when Trump came into office. Like, if John McCain saw Lindsey Graham now, I don't even know what he would say. Like, it is just. It is completely different. And our good friend Mr. Joe Walsh, who's on the show a few weeks ago, is. Is. Is thinking. He said it. He's thinking about, you know, that Senate race down there. And, man, would I love to see him go after both of them. It would just, like, I don't, you know, and I think he'd. I don't, you know, I think he'd have a shot at least getting close, which, if he's close in that Senate race, whoever runs in Nancy Mace's district will. Will. The Democrat will win, and that will be a flip.
- [30:19]
Host 2
Here's an interesting thing. I was just looking it up, and they just redistrict. Before she ran this race, she won 56% of the vote in the current draw, but in the previous draw, she would have won less than 51 of the vote. So, like her, it's close. It was super close. It's, like, still closed. Pretty interesting. It could be.
- [30:36]
Host 4
You mean nobody like, yuck, yuck, yuck, yuck.
- [30:40]
Host 1
Yeah. All right, guys, we're gonna have to wrap here because we are about to go have a conversation with Congressman Greg Rich. Decided to go over there already. He's so excited. We are about to have a conversation with Congressman Greg Kar, who is a. A representative from Texas and is also the chair of the Progressive Caucus in the United States Congress. So let's do that now. All right, we are back. I'm really, really excited to introduce our guest today. Timing literally could not be more perfect for him to join our show. We have U.S. congressman Greg Kar from Texas with us today. Congressman, thank you for joining us.
- [31:17]
Congressman Greg Ksar
Good afternoon, everybody.
- [31:19]
Host 1
So everybody is focused on Texas at the moment. The. The governor has, during this special session, is obviously trying to ram through this middle midterm gerrymander. Can you tell our audience a little bit about just what exactly is going on and what he's trying to do and why that's so unusual?
- [31:37]
Congressman Greg Ksar
Yeah, I mean, probably no. Nothing new here to your listeners that Trump is the most corrupt president in American history. But then we've got Ken Paxton here, the most corrupt politician in Texas history, and they have this corrupt scheme to change our election rules radically redraw and re gerrymander Texas so that they can rig the upcoming midterm elections before anybody gets a chance to cast a ballot. And essentially, that's Their way of covering up for Trump. Jacking up your prices. Trump basically taking your taxpayer money and handing it to his wealthy buddies in the form of ridiculous tax breaks. He doesn't have a plan for winning the election, but he does have this plan for changing the rules before anybody gets a chance to have a say about it. To give you a sense, I'm here in Austin, Texas, my home city, where he's connecting some parts of the northern Austin area out to Midland, Odessa. Think like far West Texas, and then parts of the south Austin metro area out to Port Aransas. It's like an eight hour drive between those two places. And what's worst about it all, as if that's not bad enough, is that the way he's doing it is by intentionally violating the Voting Rights act of 1965. He's Drawing Districts that were intentionally made illegal by LBJ signing that law back in 1965. I mean, he handed the pen that he signed that law with to Martin Luther King. That law of 1965 was meant to ban things like this. Trump is purposefully doing it, hoping that a complicit Supreme Court will allow him to do it here in Austin and then spread that kind of practice across America.
- [33:24]
Host 1
Yeah, I mean, it's a really, it's really terrible. And for, for our listeners, like mid. Mid term gerrymander, redistricting is not a thing that happens.
- [33:32]
Congressman Greg Ksar
It doesn't happen. Yeah, it's not supposed to happen. You're supposed to do it every census, which is like a few years ago.
- [33:37]
Host 1
I think it's. Yeah, it's every 10 years. It's congressionally mandated. Constitutionally mandated, actually. So this mid thing is. And he's only, only able. I think the shameless part of it, the part that really drives me crazy, is that they were only able to do it if, correct me if I'm wrong, because they had this special session to deal with all of the flood response, and then they decided to make this a big partisan game by trying to pull this nonsense. Is that right?
- [33:58]
Congressman Greg Ksar
Instead of doing flood relief for the folks right up the road from where I'm sitting, they're doing radical political redistricting. And I think it's really shown that these Texas Republicans, instead of having a backbone, are just really Donald Trump's water boys doing whatever it is he asks, instead of caring for their own constituents in the midst of a horrific disaster, they're just over here trying to figure out how to cover for Donald Trump's electoral failures.
- [34:24]
Host 1
And what we're seeing, I think is the way that they have proposed this, I think it would be the elimination of five congressional districts that Democrats currently control, including Jasmine Crockett, I believe. Is that correct?
- [34:37]
Congressman Greg Ksar
Well, they've moved Jasmine Crockett's home, I believe, outside of her district.
- [34:42]
Host 1
Right.
- [34:42]
Congressman Greg Ksar
She believes that she could still. Yeah, they moved most people outside of their own district that are Democrats, but they've essentially still. I believe that Congresswoman Crockett would still kind of be able to run and win in a core central Dallas district, but they have eliminated a Latino majority district in the Houston area. They've eliminated a district of mostly people of color in the Fort Worth area, and then mine in the Austin area. You know, know, Austin, San Antonio, central Texas area, eliminated the Latino district in their proposal here, and essentially are merging my district with Congressman Lloyd Doggett's district. But at the end of the day, like, the future of me or Lloyd Doggett or any other member of Congress isn't the biggest thing we've got to worry about. I'm worried about the futures of millions of people in Texas who could have their votes essentially suppressed here. And. And if they're able to do it here in Texas, they're going to. Donald Trump's already said he wants to go to Missouri next, then Ohio, then Louisiana or Alabama. And so that's why I think it's so important that these brave Texas legislators are putting up the fight of their lives right now here in Texas.
- [35:55]
Host 1
Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about that. So in order to break the quorum on the special session, they had to leave the state. And they are currently in. In Illinois, I believe. How. How long can they keep that up? And what can we do to help them? Them?
- [36:10]
Congressman Greg Ksar
Yeah. I mean, these Texas Democrats are heroes. They're democracy defenders. I know a lot of folks listening and watching at home have been searching for those Democrats that are willing to actually really put it all on the line in this moment of growing authoritarianism. And that's what Texas Democrats are doing. They're putting it on the line. And I hope their courage inspires courage of other elected officials, because they can't be gone forever. Right. Their families and their jobs are back here, and so they're buying us critical time.
- [36:40]
Host 1
Time.
- [36:40]
Congressman Greg Ksar
But their courage, if it inspires courage from governors like we're seeing the courage of Governor Gavin Newsom saying he will redistrict California in retaliation and show Republicans we're willing to fight fire with fire if we could spread that courage to Maryland and Washington state and to everybody else listening at home to your governor, then I think this quorum break could lead to Greg Abbott taking a step back, slowing this down, maybe not, not passing this horrific map if Republican members of Congress and other states see that their job is on the line. So that's part of why this quorum break is so strategic and why I'm so grateful to the Texas Democrats in the legislature that are doing it. Those of us in Congress, we're mostly here in the state organizing, pushing back with our constituents. And it's our state representatives that had to leave the state and go to places like Illinois and New York and Massachusetts to be able to stand up for the rest of the So I.
- [37:33]
Host 2
Want to ask a question. What do you think the odds are that Abbott backs off here? Because I agree with the strategy. I think like what Newsom is doing is setting the right tempo and tone. Obviously they see that there's a lot of trouble ahead if they go down this road. You know, Avid I'm sure way better than this panel does. So I'm curious, you look at the situation, you see the fire ahead of them. Are they going to walk through it or are they going to back off it?
- [37:55]
Congressman Greg Ksar
Look, Greg Abbott is a craven and cowardly politician and when they get put in a corner, they start acting real crazy. And that's what you're seeing from Governor Abbott.
- [38:06]
Host 2
Sure.
- [38:07]
Congressman Greg Ksar
Right now, Governor Abbott, this afternoon, you know, we are here on Monday, August 4, is threatening this afternoon to unilaterally remove from office basically all Texas Democrats. That's where he's at right now. And I'll just ask everybody listening to just take a step back and imagine we're talking about another country, country where you have a corrupt president that is worried about losing an election and so he's asking to rig the election rules and then a political ally of that corrupt president then threatens to remove the entire opposition party from office in order to get it done. You and I would probably say that that country's democracy is in really, really deep trouble. That's what's happening right now in America. Right now in Texas, you have have Greg Abbott saying he wants to create a single party state in Texas by unilateral action. It's hard to not sound alarmist, but that's I, I want folks to let that sink in that that's where we are and as he acts that way, acts more and more scared, we have to not act intimidated. And I think that's how you eventually get a bully to back down is when they're act at their most crazy. You know, let them continue to hurt themselves and hopefully bring people along onto our team.
- [39:25]
Host 5
I think the gambit that they're trying to take here is they're trying to provoke riots. I mean, I. I try to imagine being in the mind of these people as they are just like we are going to completely disenfranchise basically most of the black and brown voters in the state of Texas. I think that they are trying to provoke riots. I think that a guy like Stephen Miller looks at the summer of 2020 in the racial reckoning that we had nationwide, and he saw the way that Fox News and the rest of the right wing disinformation networks covered what was happening. And he saw in his base people frothing at the mouth for violence. You know, we saw, like, Kyle Rittenhouse come out and how he became a hero for the right. I think that as the Trump administration is, is moving just insane amounts of money over to ice and they are trying to do things like just completely rig future elections. They are hoping that people feel hopeless and come to the streets and that violence gets provoked so that they can accelerate things.
- [40:42]
Host 1
That.
- [40:42]
Host 5
That is I think, the only, like, rational. The only rational way that I can imagine that they're looking at this.
- [40:52]
Host 1
They.
- [40:53]
Host 5
They have to know that if they just completely disenfranchise an entire party and they try and do it across the nation, that people are going to freak out. This, this is the most direct and the most consequential attack on our republic, on our democracy that we have seen thus thus far. And their plan that they've already announced is to continue taking steps forward.
- [41:20]
Congressman Greg Ksar
Well, it's a. It's a classic authoritarian playbook to point to demonstrations and then any act of violence, whether it's actually, you know, people on one side or another, as an excuse for an even bigger power grab. And so that's part of why we can't fall into Greg Abbott's trap. We do need to make sure people can come together and publicly assemble and make grievances heard in the longest, most patriotic tradition that we have. But we've got to look out for each other, stick tight, and make sure that we don't allow provocateurs to incite anyone, because that is part of what I believe a Stephen Mill, as you just described, would want. And so today I'm calling for a picket, a classic labor organizing, peaceful but pissed picket at Governor Greg Abbott's mansion. And we're going to be there, and we're going to make sure it stays organized and that our message is heard because we can't be scared and just lock up at home scared. But we also can't fall into their trap app where they want to be able to point out any act that might turn off the average viewer that isn't watching politics as closely. We've got to make sure our message is really clear out there.
- [42:41]
Host 5
I, I think the way that you framed that as peaceful but pissed, it's great. Is, is perfect.
- [42:47]
Congressman Greg Ksar
That is just happened right here with you guys here.
- [42:53]
Host 1
Just.
- [42:54]
Congressman Greg Ksar
You're made up right here on the top of my head.
- [42:55]
Host 1
Yeah, I love to make a T shirt out of that.
- [42:58]
Host 4
Peaceful but pissed.
- [43:00]
Host 1
But I think you're 100% right. And I think the thing that we have to remember is that Trump's nickname, new nickname, is Taco for a reason. Trump always chickens out if there is a groundswell of, of, of support across the country for Texas Democrats. And I think we said, you said Gavin Newsom's like, well, if you want me to make all of the districts in California blue, I'm going to do it if you're going to play this game. And we haven't mentioned Kathy Hochul yet, but she came out today pretty strongly. Our situation in New York's a bit different because, because it won't be affected. We can't do it in 2026, but we can do it in 2028. She basically said game on today. And I think this is a, I, this is a sign to Democrats and I want to get your take on this, Congressman, but that people respond to strong leaders. Like we have been saying. A lot of us on this side have been saying for a long time that, like, one of the Democrats problems is that we're like, oh, well, it's the process. And I can't, like, you know, I don't want to mess with anything, but like, we're be. I feel we are well beyond that. I'm curious about your take. Like, I think people want fighters right now, and I think fighters are people, people want to follow fighters. And I think people are tired of it. And I think Democrats have. Well, most Democrats are waking up to the fact that we can't just play the process game anymore unless we don't want to live in a democracy anymore.
- [44:10]
Congressman Greg Ksar
Yeah, this is a moment where the Democratic Party brand is at some of its lowest ratings in recorded history. But then I, you know, will be places hundreds or thousands of miles away from my district. I was recently in Tucson, Arizona with Bernie Sanders and aoc, and we thought we were pulling up to the high school gym in six or seven blocks where we're going to have this rally. But there was a line just covering the streets. So I said, maybe to the cab driver, maybe we're already at the high school. And he said, no, that's still on my thing. Way far away. It was the line to get in. 25,000 people took over the entire football field. It was the biggest rally in Arizona history. And I think it's because people are looking for fighters, not folders. And so the Texas Democrats right now, now, I think are fighting so hard. They're leaving behind their families, they're leaving behind their paying jobs because the legislature sure isn't a real paying job in the state of Texas to fight. And I hope that inspires more governors to fight. I wish, but you know, I wish we were in a place where California having an independent commission inspired the Greg Abbott's and Donald Trumps of the world to do the right thing. We don't live in that world.
- [45:23]
Host 1
Right.
- [45:23]
Congressman Greg Ksar
Where you show up as a boy scout or a Girl Scout and maybe just respect that. Right. Like we are not in a Harvard moot court contest here. Right. Like it is a real fight to protect people's lives and people's ability to choose their own leaders. And so I think that California should say California will have an independent commission when Texas does that. New York will have one when Florida does. We've got to get to national ends to gerrymandering. Not a world where Democrats confine ourselves to one set of rules that everybody agrees to and then Governor Greg Abbott and Donald Trump can just run everybody over. I mean, that's just, that's not a way that you deal with bad faith opponents.
- [46:11]
Host 1
No. And I think look like they've now tried to trample on democracy twice. Right. Like January 6th was a coup attempt on the, on our fear and fair election in 2020. And they all kind of just were like, oh, whatever, it's just a peaceful protest. And now we're seeing this, this again with this midterm, like unprecedented power play. I, you know, and I think for our listeners, like we have a po, we have the power and the voice now. But like if we allow these things to happen, we won't, like we can have all the rallies in the world, but if our districts are like a piece of string across, like we won't have any electoral power.
- [46:43]
Host 4
You just can't make it happen.
- [46:45]
Host 1
Exactly. So, and I know you're very busy and you know, you've, you're you're off to another thing real quick. But I want to, I want to end with this.
- [46:51]
Host 4
This.
- [46:51]
Host 1
Like, you know, we mentioned talking to your governors about, you know, looking at doing this gerrymandering. What else should people be doing? I, I know there's, like, I don't know, electorally, if you could talk about this right now, but I know there's, like, a fund for these folks to make sure there are resources. What's the best thing that people could do right now?
- [47:07]
Congressman Greg Ksar
Yeah, you can check out, Check out. The Texas Justice Fund is an important place to be looking at. You could also look for these Texas legislators online. Just give them an online high five. Just amplify what it is they're saying, because it's a lonely time sometimes for folks. And so make sure they're not forgotten and, and help them out. And then if we're going to do everything we can to stop this plan, if they're able to get it through, we can't let them get it through without a serious cost. So we need to make sure that Democrats all over the country are paying attention to Texas because we need to run in these districts, districts, and make sure that these Republican members of Congress who may have thrown their own constituents in their own districts under the bus, all for Donald Trump, that they don't just get an easy path to reelection. So we're going to be recruiting candidates and those districts, funding those candidates and making sure that we actually run again as Democrats up and down the ticket. In Texas, in my own area, in Central Texas, they've merged my district with, with my neighboring congressman's district. We're not taking that lying down. We're not letting Latino voters and black voters just be disenfranchised that way. Who knows how they'll keep changing the districts moving forward here in the coming days or weeks of this battle. But we're not going anywhere. We're here in Texas and we need help from people all across the country.
- [48:30]
Host 1
Great. Well, Congressman, thank you very much for giving us a few minutes of your very busy time. Our supporters are with you. We're going to keep on this one, make sure everybody is aware of what's going on and probably, probably pressuring some of these other states to do the same. So, Congressman, thank you very much and best of luck to you. You're, you're doing, you're doing a great job, and we really, really appreciate your time.
- [48:49]
Congressman Greg Ksar
Thank you, guys. So grateful to you.