The left goes to war with itself over influencers and "dark money"

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Find Out Podcast

Episode: "The left goes to war with itself over influencers and 'dark money'"

Date: September 2, 2025
Host(s): Luke, Zach, Gabby, Tim

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Overview

This episode dives into the uproar sparked by Taylor Lorenz’s Wired exposé about Chorus—a left-leaning influencer collective allegedly funded by "dark money." The hosts, some of whom are Chorus members themselves, dissect the factual inaccuracies of the article, break down common misconceptions about nonprofit funding, and address the left's chronic infighting that threatens its effectiveness, especially in the Trump 2.0 era. The conversation blends humor, personal anecdotes, and sharp critique of left-wing "purity" politics and the circular firing squad problem.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Taylor Lorenz, Wired, and Chorus: Setting the Story Straight

• Context (00:00–02:56):

  • Taylor Lorenz (Wired) wrote a story suggesting Chorus, run by Brian Tyler Cohen, contracts leftist influencers, tells them what to say, and is funded by mysterious "dark money" from the 1630 Fund.
  • Luke: "I'm in chorus and none of that stuff is true. It was frankly a lot of things that were not true. A lot of half truths and a lot of using words like dark money to suggest nefarious, nefarious actions." (00:23)
  • Gabby: Social media discourse was relentless on this story over Labor Day weekend.

• Chorus Explained (02:00–03:20):

  • Chorus is a 501(c)4 nonprofit (not tax deductible, can't endorse candidates), offering training and up to $8,000/month stipends for independent content creators. The aim: counter the right's influencer infrastructure by investing steadily in progressive media talent.
  • Luke: "No one has ever told me what I could say or what I could not say. No one has ever said I couldn't talk about chorus." (03:20)

2. Understanding "Dark Money" and Nonprofit Structures

• 501(c)4s & "Dark Money" (03:43–06:04):
  • Hosts clarify that "dark money" is a loaded, often misunderstood label for anonymous donations to nonprofits, a structure also used by Oxfam, Planned Parenthood, and Everytown for Gun Safety.
  • Luke: "The goal is to fight MAGA, then it's good money. The end." (04:20)

3. Conspiracy Thinking and Online Misinformation

• False Accusations & Gaza Discourse (06:04–09:01):

  • Some claim Chorus muzzles Gaza discussion. Hosts refute this—members have spoken candidly about Gaza, and there's no DNC directive.
  • Zach: "It's crazy how many comments I got [for defending Chorus]." (04:29)

• Tim: “There’s this conspiracy, I don’t know, gene... that cuts across the spectrum. It’s worse on the right, but the left isn’t immune.” (06:05)

4. Left-Wing Infighting & the Purity Spiral

• Circular Firing Squad (09:01–14:17):

  • Hosts lament respected creators spreading the Wired story, exaggerating internal threats.
  • Gabby: "Circular firing squad converts and the left looks for traitors." (09:30)
  • Zach: “This is the biggest problem the left has... They are a bigger threat to us than anything MAGA’s doing.” (09:36)

• Reframing Funding Narratives (10:05–11:29):

  • The 1630 Fund backs progressive causes like paid leave, climate, equity—hardly nefarious.

• Media Double Standards and Purity Testing (11:29–19:08):

  • Acknowledgment that journalists (including Lorenz) are often also funded by similar philanthropic dollars—but the format ("journalism" vs. "influencer program") is arbitrarily demonized.

5. Creators’ Economic Realities

• Influencer Precarity (12:48–14:55):
  • Many creators are risking their jobs or livelihoods to speak out. Reliable stipends make consistent progressive communication possible.
  • Gabby: "You're mad because, oh, somebody's making it so they can do this full time and they can do it safely." (12:48)

6. Moving Forward: Strategize, Don’t Cannibalize

• Lesson from the Blowup (19:08–22:02):
  • The backlash led to more creators applying to Chorus and to progressives supporting each other publicly.
  • Luke: “All the creators basically got together and said, fuck this, we are not going to let people talk badly about us. We are going to fight back. Which is something the left has been asking all of us to do forever.” (20:35)

7. The “Purity Test” Problem & Strategic Unity

• Hot Take—Purity is the Enemy of Progress (22:19–32:23):

  • Zach (Hot Take): "There’s a lot of like, very just like moral purist leftists... those people are more dangerous to the Democratic Party and this country than MAGA." (22:27)
  • The left’s inability to coordinate and focus on winning, instead of infighting and enforcing purity, jeopardizes all progress.

• Tim: "The idea of gatekeepers has become more of a thing... Maybe we need to protect diversity of opinion rather than trying to make everybody the same." (45:04)

8. Big Picture: What’s at Stake in the Trump Era

• Pragmatism vs. Idealism (34:43–36:05):
  • Hosts stress that refusing to back the eventual Dem nominee due to single-issue litmus tests risks catastrophic setbacks for everyday Americans.

9. Satirical and Memorable Moments

• "Dark Money" Running Joke (e.g., 10:45, 49:56):
  • Hosts joke about labeling their own podcast merch as “dark money” if bought in black.
• RFK Jr. and Anti-vax Satire (37:17–44:39):
  • Extended riff on RFK’s pseudoscience and the problems with anti-vax conspiracies on both sides.
  • Luke: "Fifteen years of shooting heroin has not treated him very well." (37:17)

10. Call for Strategic, Inclusive Organizing

• Don’t Alienate Potential Allies (46:52–47:20):
  • Tim: “If you tell a person there is a correct or incorrect way of being a Democrat... that person can always go vote for the other person.”

11. Final Words and Merch Plug

• Hosts joke about their ‘dark money’ funded T-shirts and close on a note of unity and gratitude.
• Luke: "We're making this a job, guys. And you know, we would prefer..." (End – 50:18)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Luke (setting the record straight): "I'm in chorus and none of that stuff is true... using words like dark money to suggest nefarious actions." (00:23)
• Zach (on left infighting): “This is the biggest problem the left has... Those people are a bigger threat to us than anything MAGA’s doing.” (09:36)
• Gabby: "You're mad because somebody's making it so they can do this full time and they can do it safely and, like, consistently." (12:48)
• Tim: "Money is not inherently evil. It can be used for evil, it can be used for good." (08:02)
• Zach (hot take): "Those people are more dangerous to the Democratic Party and this country than MAGA." (22:27)
• Luke: "The world is big and complex. People are complex... It's impossible for this group of us to agree on every issue... this purity stuff... the country will..." (31:03)
• Marc Maron reference: "We annoyed people into supporting fascism..." (47:02)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00–03:20: The Wired/Chorus controversy summarized and debunked.
• 03:43–06:04: Nonprofit / "dark money" definitions and misconceptions.
• 09:01–14:17: The left's "circular firing squad" and purity politics.
• 19:08–22:02: Silver lining—backlash leads to more progressive creator unity.
• 22:19–32:23: "Hot Take" — purity purists present a greater threat than MAGA.
• 37:17–44:39: Satirical and serious takedown of RFK Jr. and vaccine conspiracies.
• 46:52–47:20: The risk of alienating moderate and center-left allies.

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Final Thoughts

This episode exemplifies Find Out Podcast’s typical mix of irreverence, clarity, and sharp critique. The hosts push for strategic unity and realism among progressives, cautioning against self-defeating infighting and moral posturing that divides the left at a time when political stakes could not be higher. The episode is a call to focus on pragmatic coalition-building, win elections, and stop sweating over funder purity or Internet drama—while poking plenty of fun at the absurdities plaguing today’s political discourse.

Transcript

[Luke]

Foreign hey everybody, welcome back to the Find out podcast. Happy day after Labor Day. We're recording on Labor Day, so hope you all had a wonderful three day weekend. Hopefully ignoring a lot of the news that happened over the weekend. And a in particular big thing that blew up online, which was the Taylor Lorenz Wired story about an organization called Chorus in which she claimed they were getting influencers on the left signing them to contracts that stipulated that they could not talk about chorus and that they were going and this chorus group was going to tell them what they can say and what they cannot online and that they were paid for by quote unquote, dark money from a group called the 1630 Fund. So we're going to talk about this for a little bit and I have some insight in this because I'm in chorus and none of that stuff is true. But it blew up online this weekend. If you want to go read it, go ahead. Unwired. I'm a little mystified about what was in this because it was frankly a lot of things that were not true. A lot of half truths and a lot of using words like dark money to suggest nefarious, nefarious actions.

[Zach]

Right.

[Luke]

On behalf of chorus, which is run by individual named Brian Tyler Cohen, who you may know as one of the biggest lefty lefty YouTube stars there is also an incredibly nice person. And it blew up online all over the place in particular threads, but it was on TikTok all over the place as well.

[Gabby]

All I saw, it's all I was sick all weekend. Every third video was about this. I know made me want to hit my head on a wall.

[Luke]

So let me, let me, before we, before we get into the whole group, let me just tell you my perspective on what Chorus is, because I'm in it. Chorus is a training program. The goal of chorus is something that everybody has been screaming about on the left in particular since Kamala lost the election in November, which was the left needs to do more with influencers. And they do. And they need to do more. Excuse me, with podcasts. Well, Brian stepped up because nobody else was doing it and created a nonprofit, a 501C4, meaning it is not tax deductible, but you can talk about political things, you just can't endorse candidates. From there, they invited influencers of all shapes and sizes to join and you can be paid up to $8,000 a month in this six month cohort in which they teach you basically how to become an independent creator on your own so that you can, you know, you don't have to worry about your job. You could focus on this full time, which is what the right has been doing for 20 years. I just want to be very. Yeah.

[Tim]

Sorry, did you say you members, of course, cannot endorse candidates?

[Luke]

No, no, no. And you cannot use money to do that.

[Zach]

Right.

[Tim]

So. So you're saying that chorus is more trustworthy than churches now in America?

[Gabby]

Correct.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[Luke]

Yeah. I mean, actually, they have more restrictions on them than church. Yeah.

[Tim]

Just so we have a little perspective here. Yeah.

[Luke]

And I want to be clear. I don't make $8,000 a month. And I. I said it this weekend. I Wish I get $2,000 a month for six months. And it's an incredibly worthwhile program. No one has ever told me what I could say or what I could not say. No one has ever said I couldn't talk about chorus. And really, I think what this all came down to this weekend is that people don't understand what 501C4s are. Which is. Which is fair. All 501C.

[Gabby]

I am one of those people.

[Luke]

Same 501C4s. Yeah. Are what they call dark. That's what they're calling dark money.

[Zach]

I was gonna say what the.

[Tim]

Is just conspiracy, dude. It's just. It's. This is the thing sounds like a.

[Gabby]

Thriller thing like a political intrigue thriller.

[Tim]

I want dark money. That sounds way cooler, right? Like, it's like dark matter. Yeah. If. If dark money and. And regular money collide, do they create an explosion, like antimatter and matter? Like, this sounds something like, you know, that I want to explore a little bit.

[Gabby]

I think it does work like that.

[Zach]

It's like.

[Luke]

I think.

[Gabby]

I think it makes a new bill with Trump's face on it powered by corruption and good things.

[Zach]

Dude, I wrote it in a threads. I'm reading it word for it. Whether the money is dark or not, if the goal is to fight Maga, then it's good money. The end. I got eviscerated for that take.

[Gabby]

I'm sure you did.

[Zach]

I got throttled for that take. It's crazy how many comments I got and everything.

[Luke]

Gaza.

[Zach]

This guy, like, what the. Does it have to do with anything, dude? It's such a stupid.

[Gabby]

Here's somebody right here that's in chorus that has talked about Gaza at least once a week for the last conversation.

[Zach]

About it for 30 minutes straight.

[Tim]

So for clarity, talked about how difficult it is for Democrats to talk about Gaza while also condemning the genocide in Gaza.

[Luke]

So the clar just so read readers who or listeners who are not know anything about this.

[Tim]

This is.

[Luke]

That wasn't in the article and Wired, but she and some of her back and forth because she decided to start fighting with creators was like, well, how many, how many people in the chorus cohort have been talking about the genocide in Gaza? To which I have raised my hand and I said we did a whole show two weeks ago. And the title of the episode first of all would be something Democrats don't like, which is why Democrats keep blowing it. And then we talked about the genocide in Gaza. Let me repeat, we talked about the genocide in Gaza which actually today there was a story in Reuters which says all legal experts on this topic have come to the conclusion that, that it is legally a genocide. But that's besides the point. We have been talking about this for months and I think that's been part of the problem too is that there's been a lot of assumptions that have been made by people that this is some sort of nefarious DNC group. Again, no alignment with the dnc. I've never gotten a DNC dime in my life and you know, it's just simply not true. But because she used terms like dark money, which I'm, I have quotes you can't see but like it makes it seem bad when it's really how nonprofits have acted forever.

[Zach]

Right?

[Tim]

I, yeah, I think it's just, I mean this points directly at the thing that makes me the maddest about people which is there's this conspiracy like I don't know, gene chromosome in our DNA that cuts across the political spectrum. And I think it's, it's significantly worse on a broader array. Array of topics on the right. But if you look at anti vax people, if you look at like chemtrails, like the MAHA people, there's like, I think real quick, I, I'm convinced on chemtrails somebody just misheard somebody say contrail and they were like chemtrail and they just assumed that and then they just went with it from there. That's how I think chemtrails became.

[Luke]

They're probably, I mean I don't look.

[Gabby]

Probably not a lot probably, right.

[Tim]

Going behind it, right? They're like did somebody say chemtrails? And then their imagination spiraled out of amok.

[Luke]

One thing I did this weekend to when I was losing my mind over this because I've worked in non profits forever. So I mean I've known but I worked in it. Here is a partial list of dark money organizations according to the definition in the Wired article. The Oxfam America Advocacy Fund, which pushes for fair trade policies globally.

[Tim]

Jesus Christ. That's disgust.

[Luke]

Here's another one. Planned Parenthood Action Fund.

[Tim]

Baby killers.

[Zach]

Nightmare.

[Luke]

Every town for gun safety. Gun Killers League League of League of Conservation Voters.

[Zach]

This is insane.

[Luke]

What's that?

[Gabby]

Conservatives in the name Tim?

[Tim]

Co Killers.

[Luke]

Co Killers.

[Zach]

You know what's like to me this, like, even if some, even if the entire article is true, who gives a. Like the right has been doing substantially worse. Tim, who got a fucking fatty check.

[Luke]

From Russia for months. $400,000 per month. $400,000 per month. The nerve to respond.

[Gabby]

Still didn't have the money to pay for a fucking receding hairline surgery.

[Tim]

Paul Manafort was sent to prison for getting paid illegally to influence elections in Ukraine. And he was getting paid by Russian oligarchs to throw elections in Ukraine so that he could then come over here and do the same thing. He got charged, he got convicted and he got thrown in prison. The only reason he's getting, I think still paid by Trump today is because Trump pardoned him the day before he left office in his first term. So money is a means to an end. And it's like, I desperately need people on the left and the right. I need everybody to understand money is not inherently evil. It can be used for evil, it can be used for good. I think it's. The deck is stacked against it in being used for good in our late stage capitalist system. But that doesn't mean that somebody getting paid to do something automatically makes them bad or wrong. Sometimes it might just mean that they're fighting.

[Luke]

No, the other funniest.

[Zach]

Yeah, I think the, the thing that was most disappointing to me was the amount of creators that I liked that sided with Taylor Lorenz on this. Like there were. I'm not going to name any of them because I don't want to do that, but there were a lot of them where I was like, I was like, I know. I was like, I don't understand it. And I had to. I, I got, I, you know, I did what I usually get mad at people doing, but I unfollowed them because, like, they are part of the biggest problem the left has. This is the biggest problem the left has. I don't care.

[Gabby]

I saw this today. Circular firing score converts and the left looks for traitors.

[Tim]

Yes, no doubt.

[Zach]

Exactly it. You're 100% right. Like, it makes absolutely no sense. Like it's. I understand the moral and, you know, all the purity stuff and you Want everything to be clean. But like the amount of people I, who I liked in the past were saying, like, look, I don't think we need to fight dirty because the right fights dirty. I'm like, yeah, we do like a hundred thousand. Anybody who's not doing that and thinking the opposite is a actual threat to us. They are a bigger threat to us than anything Mag is doing.

[Luke]

They are keeping us down 100%. And so let's look at the dark. I have the 1630 funds website up right now. Let me show you the issue areas of which they focus on paid leave, evil working for paid equity, paid family leave and a fair tax policy across the United States. They also training and supporting women and people of color to run for office. Boy, these people are monsters. Victory Fund working with rural communities on resource development field and organizing, building, ensuring voting access and civic participation by supporting election infrastructure.

[Zach]

So it's light money, it's not dark.

[Luke]

Working to reverse climate change, Health care.

[Tim]

For all of rainbow money.

[Zach]

Right, Right.

[Tim]

It's like, it's the gayest money I've ever heard in my life.

[Luke]

Gabby.

[Tim]

I mean, that was full. That's a loving statement.

[Zach]

It's so stupid that this is what we're getting upset about.

[Luke]

Just also here's the other part of this that is hilarious. So the major donors of the 1630 fund is also the major donor to something called the Almidyar Fund, of which there is a journalism cohort in which Taylor Lorenz is a member of $8,000. But she says, well, I don't receive dark money. But like you're getting. It's coming from the same funnel. No, not the same funnel, but not. But the same person pushing to two funnels. You're getting the same money, but it's the different tax structure. But that's what she's hiding behind.

[Tim]

Yes.

[Luke]

And that's people trying to fund good work.

[Tim]

Wired does a lot of good.

[Zach]

What's the problem?

[Tim]

There could be a nefarious person somewhere at Wired. I'm not. I have no evidence that there is. But if we were to find out that some employee at Wired were corrupt and that money was ultimately coming to Taylor, would that make the things that she writes about that are true any less true or any less worth knowing? If there's absolutely not. If there's proof of somebody saying something that is wrong or that they are intentionally telling you something that they don't believe or that they know is not true or that is against their own values and they're telling you that because they're getting paid, then expose it. Expose that person and call out that fucking lie. Don't say all people who might look like this. Like, the illusion of, fuck that, dude. We are so far past the illusion of a conflict of interest. We are watching Trump, they sprayed in like, $3 billion.

[Gabby]

Like, the Trump family's made like 7 billion, right?

[Tim]

TRUMP himself has personally increased his net worth by $3 billion in less than a calendar year. And we're worrying about somebody getting paid, what, 12,000 in six months? 30, 48,000 max.

[Gabby]

Yeah, and here's the thing that really pisses me off. The same people whine when they're like, you watch these creators who are in like, the most uncertain job area there is, because, like, some people's bosses aren't cool with them calling Trump out. So they're either keeping it a secret from their boss and. And then the second their boss finds out, it's like, either stop posting or you're fired. So they're fucked. Or they're trying to do it all on the fickleness of an algorithm. So, like, you ever see your favorite creator where at the end of the month they start pumping videos out because they got to make rent? Like, right, you're mad because, oh, somebody's making it so they can do this full time and they can do it safely and, like, consistently.

[Luke]

It's fucked. Let's game this out for a second, right? So those.

[Tim]

Was that an early teaser of Get. Was that segment?

[Luke]

Or is that how to get to do my. Ladies and gentlemen. But let's game this out for a second, right? Like, so let's say, okay, so are these people who are critical of the 1630 fund worried that I'm going to fight for climate change more or I'm going to.

[Gabby]

Because you're getting money to fight for it.

[Luke]

That means. But like, but like, what is. How are they influencing me in a negative way? Is I guess what I'm saying.

[Zach]

I don't think they're worried about that. Like, the only thing that seems to be making this go is the Gaza shit. Because like, that in that thread that I talked about, that's non existent.

[Luke]

It is a literal bullshit.

[Zach]

And Lorenz made it up where she's like, well, anybody, you know, essentially anecdotal at best, right? The narrative is that anybody who's in chorus been, you know, persuaded not to talk about Gaza publicly, which is. But then everybody just gloms onto that and goes, well, you're anti Palestinians and you're horrible and you're getting Paid to be horrible.

[Tim]

It's like, it's just more conspiracy shit. It's just, it's, it's seeing a bunch of disconnected facts, connecting them and assuming the worst, which, like, maybe we have evidence to do that with MAGA now and with Trump. Like, it's, that is, that is actually Occam's razor with maga. Is it almost always the worst thing is, is the simplest explanat.

[Luke]

Right.

[Tim]

But please don't turn that on people doing good hard work. Because like, I, I got around to thinking about it, like, hey, we all, we always talk about how there's no ethical consumption in capitalism. Right. Like you can't buy a pair of shoes that isn't ultimately tracked back to something that is terrible.

[Zach]

Right?

[Tim]

Right. Human suffering, environmental suffering, or both. Or maybe just somebody's losing their job or whatever.

[Zach]

Right.

[Tim]

And I could also say that there is no ethical income in capitalism if you really want to go that direction. Yeah, we are all getting paid by somebody. And those people are connected to somebody who makes a lot of money. And making a ton of money is kind of fucked up when you get to a certain point. And so, you know, you leave it to the Bill Gates and the Taylor Swift. So hopefully try to do something good with the crazy amount of excess money they have, but it doesn't wash their hands off of it. And it just puts you in this gray area. And it's really, in the end of the day, it's functionally useless to spend our time whining about it because Donald Trump just fucked over another 10 million people.

[Zach]

Of course it's a huge waste of time. And it's like most people work at a job where some form of private equity is funding their income, right?

[Tim]

You don't know who the people are. If the money got funneled to a, through a shell company at some point, like, we don't know, everybody's going to dark money.

[Luke]

Everybody money. The funny thing about this was that first of all, I had to give. I did disclose my income for five straight years when I was in the federal government, including all of my investments that I had, Tim made.

[Tim]

725 an hour.

[Luke]

Yep. 725 an hour. A second job? No. But when I asked people, I was like, well, okay, if you are mad at where I'm getting my money from, what's in your mutual fund, which are the what? Because I guarantee you there's.

[Tim]

Well, I don't have anything to do with that.

[Luke]

Right. I don't have anything to do that. Well, I don't have anything to do with 1630 fund either, so.

[Zach]

Exactly.

[Luke]

And the other thing I want to point out, because there's obviously four. Four dudes yelling about this. The person who did just like, tremendous work on this this weekend was Elizabeth Booker Houston.

[Tim]

Yes.

[Luke]

Who is an attorney and she's. I think she's also a Master's of Public health or something like that. And she just like. I mean, she was just a rock star. And like breaking down the problems with this where it's wrong. And also just the leading things that are, you know, as a journal journalist like you, they sometimes not good journalists will say things that they know they can get away with because people will take it a different way. And that clearly happened in this piece. No doubt about. And she just like shredded her to pieces. And look like, I've been friendly with Taylor in the past. I've had no issues with her. She's written some really good pieces. But I just think on this one she was just flat wrong.

[Tim]

Yep. She did what she's accusing all of the creators of doing, which is she got paid to do work.

[Zach]

Right. Exactly.

[Tim]

And whether you think the work is good or bad or neither is a matter of debate. And, and this is the least of our concerns. Go watch Fox News and find issues with whether they call themselves fair and balanced and report accurately on the news. But. And that's why I'm not even coming after Taylor Lorenz. Like, I, I have a journalism degree. I wrote about this on Substack extensively. Because I'm caught in the middle. I don't know her personally. I'm also not part of chorus. And so when I look at it, I just see somebody doing kind of old school journalism, which is. I'm going to call out everything I see indiscriminately. And if I see something that is a story, you know, it's like if it bleeds, it leads. Used to be the thing.

[Luke]

Yeah.

[Tim]

If you can. If you can get eyeballs and attention, if you can get readers and subscriptions with spicy content of any type, you do it.

[Gabby]

That kind of spicy content.

[Tim]

I mean, we still haven't seen your feet, Luke, but that's another conversation. I've been sending you dms under so many different names on Instagram and you still won't cave. Dude, the integrity of this guy. But she, she is just doing old school journalism. And like, I'm sorry, this is why I'm not a journalist. Right now is not the time for old school journalism. Right now is the time for. I'M going to tell you all of the facts that happened in the world, but I'm also going to very carefully package up what I think about those things and I'm going to deliver it to you in the most infectious way that sticks in your head. So you say it to all your friends and family and neighbors and you repost it. Because I believe that what we are doing together is better than what would happen if we just said, well, I told the truth and we'll see what happens. Because, like, we're seeing what happens and it's fucking awful.

[Luke]

Well, I'll tell you one thing that I think there were a couple of good things that came out of this weekend. First of all, so many more creators learned about chorus and applied. And I was encouraging people, you should apply. You all should. Everybody who does this for a living or a part of a living should do it. Because there are. I mean, I've been in social digital for 20 years and I still learn a bunch of stuff. Like I wasn't an expert on YouTube thumbnails and like how actually yellow arrows, like, actually work to drive views. And there's all these things, these little things that change every few years because once something becomes the thing, it gets ruined because then everybody does it.

[Zach]

Right.

[Luke]

So there's a lot. There was a lot of interesting stuff. And. But, but. And also apparently there were some donations to chorus, which is also great because that's the other thing. That's. They take money, small dollar up to big dollar. Like, they're not just like some, like, front for some, like. Well, I guess the billionaire behind this dark money is a. Is a very liberal environmentalist. But. Okay, but whatever. The other thing. I know, right? Saving the world. Yeah.

[Tim]

If you rearrange the letters of chorus, it actually spells out George Soros. You can do it with a wand like in Harry Potter.

[Luke]

I knew there had to be something behind this. But seriously, now, the other thing, and this is what I think our listeners will really like. And I think this is. This is a bit of a looking into the window of 2026 and 2028. Cora stayed out of this except for Brian did a video and. Which you should go watch. Brian Taylor Cohen did a video which he took down every piece. It's actually. It's fantastic.

[Tim]

This video is just deadly.

[Zach]

Really.

[Tim]

It's flawless.

[Luke]

It's just like mic drop stuff.

[Tim]

And it's long. It's every detail.

[Luke]

Oh, it's like six, seven. Yeah.

[Tim]

I mean, let me tell you, end to end. What happened? Right? No, and it's calm.

[Luke]

And yeah, Brian. Brian is exactly like he is on air. Like, I've talked to him on the phone, I've one on one. I've been in meetings with him. He is a guy that cares about this country and realizes that there is a problem and he went about trying to solve it when nobody else would do it. And so the shit that he's gotten this weekend has been so out of control. I think it's. We're past it now. And I think people realize that, like, oh, this is good. But the other good thing that I wanted to say about this, which doesn't always happen, is that all of the creators basically got together and said, fuck this, we are not going to let people talk badly about us. We are going to fight back. Which is something that the left has been asking all of us to do forever.

[Tim]

Right?

[Luke]

And so it's not about Taylor and it's not about chorus, but like all of these people are starting to get to know each other. They're understanding their lanes and everybody kind of came together from their own perspective and was like, we're not putting up with this. And this is, this is what Democrats need to do is fight. And so this was a good early. We're going to call the spring training game to this weekend and everybody, everybody got their, their swings in. We got a little jogging, you know, go ran to first, second a few times.

[Tim]

I threw up several times.

[Luke]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like Brian hit a home run, you know, like Brian Taylor Cohen. I mean, and you know, so I think, I think overall it will be good in the long run, but it was a messy weekend, so.

[Gabby]

Oh, it was messy.

[Tim]

I, I think it actually leads us pretty nicely into a, A statement that maybe Zach wants to share with us where. I don't know if it's a hill you'll die on, but I feel like you have a take coming out of this that might be a. Is it a warm take?

[Zach]

Right? Well, I think for somebody.

[Tim]

Room temp on Kelvin. What temperature is it?

[Luke]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Super hot take. I think most of our listeners will agree this, but I think there'll be a segment of them that'll look at it and go, I don't think that's true. Look, I think this kind of flushed out the fact that there's a lot of like, very just like moral purist leftists that don't give a. About what the main mission is as long as they can get angry about something. To me, those people are more dangerous to the Democratic Party and this country. Than maga. MAGA is transparent. It knows exactly what it is. It's not shy about telling you what it's trying to do. It's aggressive in what it tries to put forward, and it's easy to just take it down. The left has the problem here because they don't know how to tamp these people down. They don't know how to shut them up. There is no way to do it. They just come in and cause chaos. None stop. And it's extremely counterproductive because it's within our own ranks. These are people that theoretically should agree on almost everything we every take we have. We should be seeing eye to eye on this shit. Despite all that, they take a look at these teeny little moments where they go, let me fucking point a finger at you. And they just point it and they ignore all the work we should be doing. The chorus, on its surface, is an amazing idea that Democrats need to get behind. Getting Democrats to go, all right, we're gonna coordinate how we produce content to try to influence people and make them see the truth about what's on with Donald Trump. That's a fucking good idea. Okay? And if there are dark money elements or whatever, all these complaints, shut the fuck up. Focus on the mission.

[Luke]

We're.

[Zach]

We're in a game. We're trying to win it, okay? You are fucking us up. You're. Because you're in our locker room, all right? Maga's the other locker room. You're in our locker room fucking up the vibe. You gotta stop it. It's just counterproductive. I understand the moral integrity element of it. I understand it on the surface, but it's not a winning attitude. If you want to win, you're not helping. If you want to make a point and get people to go, oh, look at this guy, we're morally aligned, great, you're winning. But you're never going to win a fucking election that way. And you're only going to hold us back. And the only. The reason I say they're more dangerous than MAGA is because we are the only opposition to maga. And if you're actively taking us down a notch in terms of our ability to fight, you are fucking as harder than maga. Because they're already our opponent. You're supposed to be our ally. So hot take, tepid take, warm take. I don't know what it is, but that shit pissed me off a lot because we all have to be on the same page to win this shit. They are hyper coordinated over there on Maga and trust me, a lot of the people on the right hate maga. They don't talk about it. They don't try to infight. They fucking work together because they have some enough alignment in their vision for America that they stick together and they don't fucking invite. We need to take that page from them and actually save America from their bullshit agenda, which we're clearly not doing right now.

[Tim]

I think that's a good place to maybe end the episode. We good? You guys.

[Luke]

You guys would be proud of me. I was gonna use the cheering audio and I held back because they were.

[Tim]

If people aren't current. Somebody gave Tim one of those DJ like the synthesizer things and he put. He found a way to plug it into our recording tool we use. Right. God damn it.

[Zach]

I'll take a bow.

[Tim]

And now we are a low level sports radio station from Topeka, wnbc.

[Zach]

Those are like radio noises too.

[Luke]

Yeah. What's that? What's that guy's name? This.

[Tim]

Oh, sorry, go ahead. If you want to keep going on the radio bit, that's fine.

[Luke]

No, I was gonna make a stern.

[Tim]

Reference, but keep going.

[Luke]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Tim]

I like Howard. I mean, never mind. Zap that from the record. I don't want to get. I don't want to have that conversation. So reverse. He's a little controversial, but everybody is on the radio. Zach, just clarifying point.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Tim]

You said more initially, you said more dangerous to the Democratic Party than maga.

[Zach]

I think to the country too.

[Tim]

Do you? Well, which one? What is your hot take? Is it to the country or to the Democratic Party?

[Zach]

I think it's to the Democratic Party and by extension to the country. Like I said in there. It's like, I don't think that they're.

[Tim]

If we fail in the country.

[Zach]

Exactly. Like, I think the viewpoint of MAGA is much more dangerous to, you know, the.

[Gabby]

I mean, they want to take away.

[Zach]

Yeah, that's obvious. But the leftists are the impediment to the opposition getting to the point they need to be at. I mean, you could even make the argument in 2024 if the Gaza whole, like, I'm not going to vote for Kamala Harris because of Gaza shit didn't happen. There's a chance she wins an election. I don't think. I don't think it's enough personally, but there's a chance she gets at least closer.

[Tim]

There's maybe Michigan, maybe we're on like nine months of. Has anyone seen Jill Stein in nine months?

[Luke]

Who? Who?

[Tim]

Right. Yeah. No, okay, just checking.

[Zach]

That's a no. It's important clarification though, because I don't want it to come off like, oh, maga's perspectives aren't dangerous. Like, they're extremely dangerous. But that's why we need to have the best well oiled machine possible.

[Luke]

But I think you're also. But you. When you say left, though, like I would say in this group, Luke is the most left of the four of us. Likely. But you're not.

[Zach]

I'm not talking about Luke.

[Luke]

We're not talking about. I think we're talking about extreme. Chronically online.

[Zach]

Chronically online armchair.

[Luke]

Like, I vote for Bernie Sanders. That. No, no. I'm just. No, no, no, no.

[Zach]

It's the people who made videos going, like, if you vote for Kamala Harris, you're a war criminal. Like that.

[Gabby]

This is it. This is it. It's the guy that responded to my video announcing this podcast in fucking March.

[Luke]

Who said that the three of you.

[Gabby]

Well, the four of you were going to groom me into being a Biden lover and that I was going to end up brainless something. It was. And then he called me a bunch of slurs and it's like, well, that's like the thing you're not supposed to do. And then you go look in his bio and it's got a big leftist across it. I said, whoa, that doesn't make any.

[Luke]

Guys we were, we were going to. In March when Donald Trump was president, we were going to make you a Biden lover.

[Gabby]

Drew me into a Biden lover.

[Tim]

Yep.

[Gabby]

And then he called Biden a groomer.

[Luke]

Which is like, what, drop? Yeah, I saved it.

[Gabby]

Every once in a while I go back to watch it because it's like, God damn.

[Luke]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

They've got like 400 followers.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

And they.

[Zach]

But there's a lot of them.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[Zach]

That's why this situation pissed me off, because it flushed them all out and they're all like right in the open going, hello, there's like 5 to 10 of your organization is us. I'm like.

[Gabby]

I'm not entirely certain that, like a significant portion of the people that were really vocal about this weren't bots.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

Because I saw a lot of them.

[Tim]

There's always that identical.

[Luke]

Like, well.

[Tim]

They proved in the election that was happening, there were, there were actual Hungarian bot farms that were like funded by Putin not because they wanted Trump to win, but because they want America to fail. And the best way to make America fail is to pay for shit that. That promotes Trump. Exactly the way I'M thinking about it like how you're describing this. It's like MAGA is like the skin cancer that you know you have. And, and, and, and leftists, like destroying us from within is like the pancreatic tumor you don't know you have.

[Zach]

Exactly until it's too late.

[Tim]

Like I'll just take care of this little skin cancer. And they're like, bro, that's the least of your concerns.

[Zach]

A hundred percent that's dead on.

[Tim]

Well, and, and I just like, I want people to know they, this is so useless. Ross Perot got 19 million votes in 20 in 1992 running as a third party because he believed the system was fucked. He believed nobody was right. He was kind of socially liberal. He was like your old school libertarian. He was like socially liberal. Super economically conservative.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Tim]

Wanted a balanced budget amendment. Like he won a lot of people. He got zero electoral votes. He changed nothing by being technically correct and getting a shit ton of support.

[Luke]

He got, changed one thing.

[Tim]

Bill Clinton elected. Right?

[Luke]

He got Bill Clinton elected.

[Zach]

Yeah, that's one element of it. But I think it's really important that we understand the reason I don't like those groups is because they don't live in reality. They're trying to make this big statement. The statement is not going to change the fucking system. You need to operate in reality. You want Democrats to go and vote against arming Israel or whatever, you think that that's going actually change Gaza, it's not going to fucking do that. So don't die on the hill. That's useless. Die on a hill where you could actually make a difference. And that's coming together with the Democratic party who largely 99% of the time agrees with you and fight side by side and let your little moral misgivings shut the fuck up and put them off to the side.

[Luke]

The reason that I just think that the purity, I mean we talked about last week, the purity test. It's a purity test. And when people are like, well I'm not going to vote for Kamala Harris on because of gossip. My answer to her is what are you saying to the 13 year old girl who was raped by her uncle and is now pregnant?

[Zach]

Right, exactly.

[Luke]

What are you saying to the people who have lived in this country for 40 years and all of a sudden are getting thrown in unmarked vans by guys and masks? What are you saying to the people who all of a sudden their grocery bills are going up because we have these stupid tariffs, you know? Or what do we say about to the people in D.C. who now live in a militarized zone. Because Donald Trump needs to like make his. He make his, you know, ego put.

[Gabby]

His dick on the table and now.

[Zach]

He'S gonna make Trump tower Gaza in four years.

[Luke]

Yeah, so? So it's like the world is big and complex. People are complex. The fact this four group of us do not agree on every single issue, it is impossible. So like this purity stuff, maybe back in the 1700s when we were all just like riding our. We were puritans then our horse into town for the one time of the week, you know, to get our like, like fresh water or whatever and like used it for like three months. Like simpler times maybe. But like you just. If we're going to act that way, the. This country will and every country will.

[Tim]

I think the. I think what, what gives me a little bit of hope is, I mean, we took a really terrible loss in 2024. And I watched a lot of people, in fact make a lot of good videos. I saw some that were really funny. But basically I watched a lot of people who maybe two years ago would have like canceled the way you talked about things or like, would have corrected you. Not even like maliciously, but just would have said like, hey, that's problematic and hey, we shouldn't do this. They're all looking around going, maybe we don't have enough of us to win elections and so maybe we need to chill out a little bit. And they are at least open to the idea of supporting people who are imperfect for the goal of the grand outcome. And we have an opportunity to stay focused on that. I think that's what is great about, like, Zoran. You know, Gavin Newsom is a perfect example where everybody can agree in a ideal world, like, he's not the best choice. Like, he wasn't my guy like a year ago and I even made a video about it. But if he's gonna win and he's gonna go fight, like this is a 20 part curing, healing process, right? Like if Gavin Newsom is step one and then we get a little bit incrementally better after that. You literally have to help with, help deliver the best good, the greatest good to the most people, the most of the time. It's like the oldest liberal egalitarian principle right now so that we can get to that better place, not say it's all or nothing and, you know, you have to earn my vote and all that 100%.

[Zach]

And here I'll give you an example of the reverse, right? Because I am a former Republican. I'M a very moderate Democrat, probably an independent in any other world. I have publicly endorsed and gotten behind Zohran Mandani. I don't agree with any fucking thing he's saying. I don't give a shit. He is a winner. He's got a great platform. He's got all the people behind him. I support him even though I don't agree with the majority of what he has to say. In terms of execution, I don't give a shit. Let's try it. You have to have a willingness to look at people you don't agree with and go, well, maybe there's some value to this. You. You can't just stay in this steel case of four walls and go, well, this is where I live. Nothing's coming in or out. It's like, no. You have to be willing to take on ideas that you don't agree.

[Luke]

Well, let's. Well, let's look at Gavin Newsome, right? So right now he's at the top, right? And, like, I don't.

[Tim]

Yeah, I think without question.

[Luke]

Like, he's. But he's absolutely at the top, right? But, like, okay, but I've seen so many people online say absolutely not because of his position on homelessness and his position on trans. And I empathize with that because I understand. Absolutely. I mean, I know trans people who have just been horrifically, like, you know, beaten down and discriminated against and all of that. So it's very hard to say, especially as a white male that's had every privilege on earth. You know, it's difficult to talk about these things. Same with the homelessness stuff. I'm the left of Newsom on both of those things. But, guys, we have to get out of this nightmare, out of this. Like, the. The country, the government is collapsing. Like, we have to be very clear about this. This isn't just like, first term where they, like, ha, they're stupid and, like, they're fighting because they don't know anything. And they didn't get anything done except for tax cut.

[Zach]

They're going.

[Luke]

They're dismantling. Now us generations doesn't exist. Right? They just fire. There's this horrible story in the Washington Post this week. Voice America's gone. They, like cdc, like the Economist or the statistician for the Department of Education who had been there for 35 years, gone. Like, they're just like the brain drain, the destruction. So, yes, will I vote for Gavin Newsom even though I don't agree with him on trans and homeless issues? Absolutely.

[Zach]

I Will, here's the other element. It's like Gavin Newsom that's. He's had a couple bad takes in those things from people on the left, but he's also done a lot of good things for the homeless community in the trans community. Like he, he's done a ton. Like California has some of the best trans trans protections in the entire country. So to look at it and go, well, he said some funny things about trans sports, like shut the up. He also protected all trans people in so many different ways. Please can we focus on the big.

[Luke]

Also also he's going to put an HHS secretary that actually believes in science, unlike what we have now.

[Gabby]

RFK Jr can see mitochondrial dysfunction in kids faces. He has an esp. He's got a sixth sense. You're an idiot.

[Luke]

Do you know how like, how absolutely like bonkers, batshit insane saying something like mitochondrial challenges. Mitochondrial challenges? What the fuck are you talking about?

[Tim]

Does that even mean tired kids walking.

[Zach]

Through the fucking microscope?

[Tim]

I don't know what he's doing at the airport. He saw tired kids at the airport and diagnosed them with inflammation and mitochondria.

[Luke]

They got inflammation, but I don't know if people.

[Tim]

He looks pretty inflamed if you ask me. But. Well, check his mitochondria.

[Luke]

15, 15 years of shooting heroin has not treated him very well.

[Zach]

Fifteen years.

[Luke]

It was, it was over a decade.

[Tim]

Do you guys see the thing? It's like. Sorry, real quick. It's okay. Somebody said that. And I posted this on Instagram, but it made me laugh so hard. I have to say it here too. Somebody, somebody said that RFK Jr looks like if you microwaved Mel Gibson.

[Luke]

Oh yes, I saw that.

[Zach]

That was so good. There's so many good comedians doing about that. There's another one who said like his, his throat is literally trying to get him to shut the fuck up. Like his voice sounds like his throat is trying to. Stop talking, talking.

[Luke]

Please stop talking and look like. And for, for everybody listening. We're laughing because there's nothing else to do at this particular junction. Because like, to be perfectly honest, the cdc, I don't know if people saw this. Like the top five people all either quit or were tried. They tried to fire. And this is political appointees and career staff. Because RFK basically tried to say we're going to get rid of the entire vaccine commission that approves the vaccines every year, the flu vaccines, the COVID vaccines, approves new things that come on. On. He's like, no, I don't want to Put all the. He's putting in all these absolute batshit nut balls.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Luke]

And so any doctor who's in a position's like, I'm. That I'm out. But now, but now we're in a situation. And I know, Zach, you had a good post on it. And I did a video too. Like, we don't know if our kids are gonna be able to get vaccinated.

[Zach]

That's the thing. This winter, I literally got a message from our pediatrician going, well, we don't know. And you probably, like, unless your kid's over five, you probably can't get the COVID vaccine. I'm like, oh, great.

[Luke]

But.

[Tim]

But think of how. Think of how strong their mitochondria will be.

[Gabby]

Yeah. They're going to have superpowered mitochondria.

[Tim]

They're going to be.

[Zach]

That's awesome. I can't.

[Tim]

They'll have so much energy. Right. Until pneumonia kills them. Yeah.

[Luke]

This. This is another example of where when someone tells me, if. If you're not 100% correct on Gaza, I'm not voting for you. It's like our nation's health. We don't. We now have to rely on outside experts. I talked to somebody, I don't want to say their name, but very high up in a certain university about what happened at the cdc, and they refer to it as the Saturday Night Massacre.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[Luke]

Which is the. That was the Nixon thing. Right. Where he fired a bunch of people that were trying to get him to resign and all this stuff and then ended up having to do it anyways when they found out about the tapes and he very clearly broke the law. But. But in this case, it's the opposite, where you've got. Well, no, actually it's the same because it's the President trying to get rid of people who are just trying to give the American public factual information that will keep their families safe. But Maha make America, quote, unquote, healthy again. Dispatch again before the polio vaccine, probably. Right. We're going back to the 40s.

[Zach]

It's just like the great.

[Luke]

Again. It's.

[Zach]

I hate it, dude.

[Tim]

History branded with horseshit and sold to people who are. Have been de. Educated to such a degree that they don't know the difference also.

[Luke]

But also it is. I mean, let's be perfectly honest, a lot of this is like back when white people had all the power and all of the minorities were shoved in a corner because they're talking about going back, going back to the 40s and 50s. Right. Like, this is 100%. Which of course the highest tax rate.

[Zach]

I was gonna say go back to.

[Gabby]

I don't think that's like that.

[Tim]

Dude, some of the maha shit is from like the 1800s.

[Zach]

It's crazy.

[Tim]

I mean they don't want any.

[Luke]

No vaccines. What, raw milk?

[Zach]

Yeah. Why.

[Gabby]

Drink it every day? And then we'll just be rid of them and they can have.

[Zach]

No, just get listeria or whatever the.

[Gabby]

Really bad diseases and I'll say cyanara.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah.

[Luke]

Well that's like people in the like at their 30s or 40s, they're like, I drink it, I'll find them. Yeah, yeah. But if you give that to children or elderly people, it can, can kill them.

[Zach]

Oh, 100.

[Luke]

It just is crazy. But I think it goes to another thing that nobody believes in any institutions anymore because there is so much misinformation out there. I mean we've always had batshit crazy anti vaxxers but they've usually been shoved in a corner and people laugh at them. Oh, the COVID idiocy like Jenny McCarthy who should be scorned. It should not be on that stupid ass show. Who's the person that made anti vaxx pulled it into the mainstream. Her and RK RFK Jr actually are the two. And now we all have to suffer from it and it's going to mean people die, you know.

[Tim]

But it did, it did get Trump 1 point a boost in the, in the polls last year so that he could get our endorsements.

[Zach]

It's.

[Tim]

It's the 50. 50 both sides.

[Zach]

It's the video research crowd. I can't stand like that's, it's like. Because I, I used to work in pharmaceutical advertising and I would have to read clinical studies all the time and that's not easy to read them. Like they're very, there's a, there's a real rhythm to figuring out what the they mean. There is no ch that the majority of these people could even read one page of this and recite back what it actually says. It's like they don't know.

[Gabby]

50% of the US reads below at or below a sixth grade level.

[Zach]

Yeah, it's not reading any of that.

[Tim]

Because they're called Republicans.

[Luke]

But guys.

[Gabby]

Correct.

[Luke]

RFK Jr. Has discovered the cause of autism. Of course now he hasn't told us yet.

[Gabby]

It's coming in a month.

[Luke]

That's yet. Yeah.

[Tim]

Mitochondrial challenges.

[Luke]

They have, they have figured it out that you can see and they are.

[Gabby]

Going to announce studies to prove it.

[Luke]

At a later date. I don't, I'm just actually curious what they're going to say. I like what bullshit.

[Gabby]

I'm putting my money on it right now.

[Luke]

Vaccines.

[Gabby]

Vaccines.

[Zach]

And like my. My favorite thing about the code vaccine is like oh it's. We didn't study enough. It's the most studied drug in the history of mankind. Not in like American history or in the last year ever.

[Luke]

Yeah but Zach studied ever. But they. But the MRNA vaccine that's never been used before. And it's like you.

[Gabby]

Have you not any heard of any vaccine injuries, you idiots.

[Luke]

Well first of all take that. I mean that's too right but like we like that's why like these people they have been studying MRNA vaccines since the 80s forever.

[Zach]

Forever. And like all the shit based it off of is Vaers and vaers is the like everybody goes like all the anti vaxxer is. Do you know what various various data is people self reporting. So I could go I got 17 new testaments on Google vaccines. It's in vaers. I got 17 new testaments. Testicular. It causes testicular growth. Guys, get the out of here.

[Tim]

I can get testicular growth. Yeah, yeah. Did you say I can take the COVID shot now?

[Luke]

Now Maga. Now Mag is interested.

[Zach]

I just hate it.

[Luke]

It's so check. Check out the various system. I'm like I could literally go and say that I have a unicorn hair for horn now.

[Zach]

Absolutely.

[Luke]

It's so stupid. And of course those guys all go do that, right? Like of course they do. But like. And like. But the thing about vacancy, I know we've gone way off topic now but like the thing that me is that in order for them to be right, the entire medical community, doctors, researchers, nurses, nurse practitioners all across the world, millions of people have been keeping a secret.

[Zach]

Right?

[Luke]

It's dark money.

[Gabby]

It's dark money.

[Tim]

It all comes back.

[Luke]

The 1630 fund is the one that put all of the money into the vaccine research with the chips in there.

[Zach]

Too that control you.

[Luke]

When have a million, not even millions, when have a million people ever been able to keep their mouth shut? What have 10 people been able to keep their mouth?

[Tim]

Exactly. They can't do well we've kept the moon landing a secret for a long time, by the way.

[Zach]

Yeah, it's true.

[Luke]

No, no.

[Zach]

You can't.

[Luke]

I mean people believe crazy. The earth is flat. There's vaccine, no vaccines.

[Zach]

I've met him.

[Luke]

I do like the guy who, who tried to prove the earth was flat. Flat and blew himself up trying to fly a rocket that he built to prove that the Earth was flat.

[Tim]

We need to bring back, make Darwin Awards great again. Where did Darwin Awards go?

[Luke]

Isn't that what Florida man is?

[Tim]

Maybe it just pivoted to Florida man.

[Luke]

Yeah, I think that's.

[Tim]

They're like, there's so much overlap between Darwin Awards in Florida. It's just like, it's just Florida man now. Yeah, yeah, Zach. So, so hang on. So I, I want to close off the hot take. We did this last week. We were like, it's a 10 minute hot take before that episode. We're like, we're gonna time box this at 10 minutes so we can have a spicy discussion about Taylor Swift. And then we spent like 4,000 years talking in circles. Anyway, we're gonna do it again today. But to, to tie that off, I think I always like to end everything on a upbeat note. I think that the, the idea of gatekeepers has become more of a thing. And people are talking about gatekeeping, the Democratic Party gatekeeping language. Like, well, maybe don't tell people to not swear because they hurt your feelings. Or if religion maybe just like let that happen even if you're religious. Maybe, maybe we need to protect diversity of opinion rather than trying to make everybody the same. And this is a new thing because there are things I'm comfortable saying now, again, where I always felt them and I would have defended them, but, like, I wouldn't have had a hot take on it maybe, you know, five years ago that now I feel like we can just talk about more openly because we're in this, like, place where everything's fucking terrible and we all agree that we lost. And whether it was like a good loss or a bad loss, and it doesn't really matter, we all lost. And so we need to rebuild. And so it's like, okay, we're in maybe a little more constructive state of mind. And I think this is the opportunity to have that conversation of when you tell a person that there is a correct or an incorrect way of being a Democrat or of supporting a Democratic politician, that person always has the choice to just go vote for the other person. Right?

[Gabby]

They don't vote at all.

[Tim]

They're not right. Or just not vote or just tune out or be like, well, I agree with all of their economic positions, but, like, they seem fucking crazy or they annoyed me to death and I don't want to be in a room with them. Like, those are real things. And if we do that too much to people. I think it was Marc Maron who said we annoyed people into supporting fascism in a stand up recently and we can't do that.

[Luke]

Oh, I love Mark.

[Tim]

Mark is so good. I want to get him on the podcast. And, and, and we're in this state of awareness right now where we understand that if we do that we are going to ruin it again for ourselves. And so please everybody, like we all support 99.9% of the same outcomes. How we get there looks different and how we talk about it looks sounds different. But we're all trying to get to the same outcome. So whether it's Gavin Newsom or whether it's AOC or anybody in between, support the person who ultimately the party picks to go and beat JD fucking Vance. Because that guy is a psychopath who should never be in power again.

[Gabby]

Who's in Peter Thiel's pocket.

[Tim]

That's true.

[Luke]

Do you know what we never heard of. Talk enough about him. Guys, what our new merch.

[Gabby]

They are. It is pretty sweet.

[Luke]

It is.

[Zach]

We.

[Luke]

I just wanted to say I've got the faces. By the way, we all made fun of my face. I think that looks pretty good. Looks pretty good.

[Tim]

Look like you're afraid of something.

[Gabby]

Maybe getting caught.

[Luke]

Afraid of talking to you guys and getting harassed for my slightly off kilter face on the shirt. But anyways, so these shirts just came in, guys, and they have been selling like crazy, which is great, but I'm actually happy that the tree. The tree shirt I think is selling a little bit better than the face shirt.

[Gabby]

The tree shirt's pretty sick, but the.

[Luke]

Tree one's pretty awesome. Yeah, I was wearing that the other day. Day. And I will be wearing this guys, in front of 80,000 people at the Oasis show, which otherwise is known as the 40 and 50 year old version of the eras tour. So I will probably be.

[Tim]

Excuse the 80 year old version of the Beatles tour.

[Zach]

Oh my God.

[Luke]

That's the. See, but we have other shirts too, guys. They're made in America. They're union made. Live in our values. We actually dropped the prices a little bit. You can go to findoutpodcast.com and then there's a button on the homepage for Merch. Click on that. And there's all kinds of stuff. Sweatshirts, T shirts. I think that's actually all we have. Oh, stickers and tote bags, mugs.

[Tim]

What I hear you saying is that if on this beautiful Labor Day you want to support American labor, unlike our piece of shit labor hating, union busting president, buy our piece of piece of that guy. Buy our American made. Find out podcast merch. Give us some of that you'll be a better person.

[Luke]

Yes. Yes. And it is dark because, you know, it doesn't get you. No one knows that you bought it. So I guess that's dark, too.

[Tim]

Dark money. If you buy the black shirts, they're dark money.

[Luke]

Yep, exactly. Yes. So please go to find out podcast.com to buy that merchandise and show your support. And also you can support the show by going to find out podcast.substack.com and becoming a member, telling your friends and family, because we are making this a job, guys. And you know, like, we would prefer.

[Gabby]

The only one who gets any dark money.

[Luke]

That's true.

[Zach]

I need my dark money.

[Luke]

I'm the only one. Like I said, I changed my title or my bio on threads to say paid, you know, receives dark money from Course. So everybody knows now everybody can calm down.

[Zach]

That's good. I like that.

[Luke]

So, yeah, so that is all of it. I think, think because it's Labor Day, we can be a few minutes short today, so.

[Tim]

Sure.

[Luke]

Thank you, everybody. I hope you all had a wonderful Labor Day weekend. We are so glad to have your sport and have you with us. You know, I think once you start reading this Tuesday, we'll be a little slow and then I think we're gonna have a mad dash to next year. So things are gonna about to get crazy. But if we all stick together, we're gonna have some good stuff happen. So until next time, folks, have a wonderful day.