Rich (4:56)

Yep.

Tim (4:57)

Yeah. And this is exactly why we wanted to have you on and explain it. And I read your. Read your piece, which everybody should go do, and I want to reiterate again that the Somali population of Minnesota, it's 1% of the population. The way that this, the right wing is talking about this, it's like, it's like 55% or something like that. Also, there's all these, like, ridiculous dog whistles.

Kasim Rashid (5:17)

Right.

Tim (5:18)

I'm seeing all this. The Somalis all operate as one. One brain. Like what? Yeah, I mean, obviously that is a. What. That is the white supremacy angle to this. To try to other.

Kasim Rashid (5:29)

Yeah.

Tim (5:29)

Somalians in this country. And it's interesting because I'm from Maine and Lewiston, where actually the. There was a mass shooting there a couple years ago. Not anything to do with them. There's a. I hear a lot of this in Maine as well, these sort of dog whistles. And it's, and it's all. I mean, again, I think you're right. It's cover for Trump's poll numbers sitting at about 35%.

Kasim Rashid (5:51)

I mean, there's Somalis that. They're not the Borg. Right. They're not like one mind that's going to assimilate people.

Luke (5:56)

The Daleks.

Kasim Rashid (5:57)

Right. I mean, it's nuts to me. And the other reason why they're trying to deflect and attack Somalis is because Republicans know a couple of things. They know that 16 years after the ACA passed, they have been so incompetent and corrupt, they haven't proposed an actual viable health care solution. They know that they jacked up the ACA subsidies and they're going to expire and ACA rates are going to skyrocket, double and triple come January 1st, and they need a scapegoat. It's far easier to say, hey, it's those Somalis over there and, and their alleged fraud, why your rates are higher, instead of admitting that they don't know how to govern and that it's because of their own corruption and incompetence that these rates are going higher. And then to your point, Tim, Trump's poll numbers continue to plummet. And hey, if you're a strong man, if you're a dictator and your poll numbers start to plummet, what's the first Thing you do, you find the most marginalized community and you demonize them, and you demonize them, and you demonize them. The black welfare queen trope is what Reagan used is what Trump is using right now.

Rich (6:52)

I mean, I think that's the thing is, you know, they always need a distraction, and sometimes it works. But what you can't do is distract people from their bank accounts and distract people from their household cash flow and the cost of the medical deduction coming out of their paycheck or the cost of the health insurance, you know, bill that they're paying each month. And so, like, on one hand, I'm like, how is this the reality that we're in? I mean, we ask ourselves that like 14 times a day, right, that, that we just have to sort of like, suffer overt racism from the President and, and the entire MAGA machine for the billionth time, this time toward, you know, Somalis and just like, move on as if it was a political football. It's, it's pretty frustrating, but it, but at least at this point, the other things are coming true that are going to make these distractions because, yes, he does hate people who are minorities, hate people who are different. He hates the Somali community. He doesn't know anything about the Somali community, but he hates them because they look different and they serve him well as a, as a political football. So, you know, this, this will, this will go. Go past, go past us. He'll do a lot of damage. But, you know, trying to keep the conversation focus back on what he's trying to keep us from looking at is. Is one of my big objectives.

Tim (8:15)

Yeah. I want to ask you, because this is following a very, the, the Republican playbook to a T, right? It's like, find this thing that has a kernel of truth, right? Because it does seem that there are some, some people that have been caught up in this that are Somali. Majority of them are white, but, like, they are. So, like, there's a little bit of truth there, but then they make it all about the racial stuff. And I think this is what we see regularly, right? Like the, the Donald Trump's friends and the, and the billionaires use these things when things aren't going well economically to rile up the base who generally doesn't receive any of the benefits of the people that are voting for them. But this is the stuff where they keep them in line. But my question is from the. We obviously know what the right's been doing. Tell us a little bit about, like, is, is the mainstream media covering this Fairly. Are they not covering it at all? Because. Because that's a piece of this that is concerning to me is that I'm not seeing a lot of, like, factual information other than your piece that you just dropped this morning.

Kasim Rashid (9:13)

Yeah.

Tim (9:13)

Out there explaining what's really going on here.

Kasim Rashid (9:15)

And I was able to, you know, write that piece because I have contacts in Minnesota, attorneys, politicos in Minnesota who are embedded with local politics, with, you know, the local situation, and they're able to kind of share on the ground data and facts and evidence, which I cite and link in detail. You know, Tim, I think we're at a really unique place in the country right now. And this is why podcasts like yours I think are so, you know, you and, and Luke and. And Rich are so critical to these conversations. Gallup came out with a poll recently that says that trust in corporate media is at a historic low, something like 26, 28%. And the conversation becomes even more sinister when you realize that the way corporate media has built its empire is largely by drowning out local newsrooms, whether it's buying them out and shutting them down or just, you know, enticing them out. So there is a lack of local coverage and then a lack of care on the national level as well. And so there's a huge information gap that's happening right now. And so when these kinds of stories break, Republicans still have the discipline to have the vice president tweet out some BS about how this is a Pulitzer Prize winning piece of journalism when it's actually trash. And that's all the cue the rest of them need to run with it. Whereas we're sitting here twiddling our thumbs, still writing strongly worded letters to the president and not realizing that we need to be able to meet people where they are. We can't just say, well, this is so stupid. People aren't going to fall for it and be elitist about it. We need to break it down and we need to provide the receipts and the evidence and have these conversations. And that's why I was so thorough and diligent in my piece, to write this out with all the details and all the facts and all the references. Not because I think that Republicans or Magas are going to care. I know they won't. I have zero. I have zero fantasy in my mind that this will magically enlighten them. And then, you know, we're gonna hold hands and sing Kumbaya. I'm writing this because our voter base needs to have the information at hand. They need to know that they're not being duped. They need to know that there's not any truth to this. They need to understand how to fight disinformation with actual facts. And this is one of the reasons why I don't have a paywall on any of my content, because I need to make sure we are making this stuff accessible and, you know, to throw it back to you guys. This is why conversations you guys have are so critical and so important, because you're able to reach people in ways that the party establishment cannot. Not because they're not capable, but because it's. In my view, they just don't care. They just don't get it. And one of the reasons why we keep losing these culture wars is because we fight the wrong ones. And we forget what Rich said, that people are going to ultimately notice what's in their bank account. And if they're convinced that it's because of the Somali immigrant or because of the trans person, and then they'll let it slide, then that's where the conversation is going to be. And we will lose that every single time.

Rich (12:02)

Right. They double down on the worst possible response to the misery. And that's why I certainly do not want to diminish what Somalis in Minnesota are going through, because there. There are real victims of these distractions, of course, and they're always the marginalized people, to your point earlier. So, you know, politically, yes, we will move on, but the damage to our soul, that. And I don't even believe in souls, but the damage to our soul that takes place every day and having to just watch terrible things happen to really good people, really good communities, and by people who are doing all of the things that they're accusing everybody else of doing, that's, you know, I think, truly the hardest part for me, it's really, really, really difficult. But thanks to this information age and sort of where we've gotten in the past, you know, two years with digital creators, and I used to laugh at citizen journalists, but I'm like, oh, it's a real thing, and that's us. We can at least help people see through that. And frankly, we get a lot more views and a lot more listens than a lot of these cable news programs, you know, these days. So, yeah, we know what it looks like.

Tim (13:15)

Yeah. But I think our problem, and I think this is what Kassim's getting to, is like, you know, a lot of times we hear these stories right on our. On the left, and we go, that's ridiculous. No one will Ever believe that.

Rich (13:24)

And then they do it.

Tim (13:25)

Right. Like lots of people, like people like, we're all news junkies. We're in it all the time. I mean, because we're in. We're all for. All of us are in these different text threads talking about all this stuff. Most Americans don't do that. They don't even listen, watch the news. But if something comes across their Facebook feed, like all of a sudden, I don't know what it is. And there's some of this on the left too. Don't, don't get me wrong. But they are like, I believe it. And if our people don't have the information, what are. And they, they're just like, oh, that's ridiculous. Those people who are getting this information are good. There go the Democrats or the liberals, like your progressives or whatever. Again, not defending their position and just like saying this is nothing when it's something that's with quote, unquote them. And I think that's been very dangerous to, to the discourse. But also the fact that like the only way to break these, some of them, I don't think all of them are like you said, we're not solving 30% of this of the population that is MAGA. But like those people in the middle or the, or they may, they may have voted for Trump because they blame Biden for high prices. Those are the people that we need to be like, no, they are lying to you.

Kasim Rashid (14:30)

Yeah.

Tim (14:30)

Or the fact that Donald Trump, you said like, it's 24 pardons for, for people committing fraud in the amounts of billions of dollars.

Kasim Rashid (14:38)

Yeah.

Tim (14:38)

Like it's insane. And the fact that like they're outwardly saying it costs a million dollars for a pardon, which by the way, is a crime.

Kasim Rashid (14:45)

Yes.

Tim (14:46)

Like, this is why, like, as rich citizens, journalist. I mean, you're, you're not a journalism journalist by trade. Right. You're a, you're an attorney. Maybe you were too. But like, and I'm, you know, we're not, we. I mean, we don't see ourselves as journalists.

Luke (14:58)

But like, you know, I'm the furthest thing from it.

Rich (15:01)

Calls yourself a journalist. So like, we need to, what are we doing?

Tim (15:03)

We need to be doing the things that the right is doing except at a truth telling capacity and using their strategies against them because that's how we start to turn.

Kasim Rashid (15:11)

And I'm deliberate about the way I talk. I call, I call it collateral education.

Tim (15:15)

Yeah.

Kasim Rashid (15:15)

Meaning that the person, the troll I'm addressing may not give a damn what I have to say. But the people watching that collateral education and it's been.

Rich (15:23)

I like that.

Kasim Rashid (15:23)

I also want to point out that, you know, this health care issue, that this health care fraud that we're talking about, this is where we need to hold Democrats and Republicans alike accountable. Because by being a country that has decided we are going to commoditize healthcare, we are going to benefit off of your cancer diagnosis, that we are going to make money off of the fact that you are suffering a medical emergency while pregnant, we have decided that people's lives have a price tag and we have incentivized as a country fraud. If we caught up with the rest of the developed world and guaranteed healthcare as a human right, you would eliminate 95% of the fraud. Because now the focus is not profit, the focus is making sure people have the damn healthcare that they need to live. The fact that we refuse to do that is. I put that at the hands of Democrats and Republicans alike for different reasons. Republicans because they're anarchists and they don't want healthcare, they wanna privatize everything. And Democrats because they think that you can kind of sort of privatize it and it not be corrupt and no, you can't. You cannot kind of sort of privatize it and not be UnitedHealth, the largest, you know, healthcare company out there is being sued right now for denying 90% of Medicaid claims people died. That's fraud. Denying legitimate claims is fraud, but because it's a corporation that does it, suddenly it's just a booking or rounding error and we efficiency nonsense. Until and unless Democrats can actually lead with the courage and conviction to say, I'm going to turn down these campaign donations, I'm going to stop stock trading in healthcare companies and I'm going to guarantee health care as a human right. We're going to be in this exact same trap. And the average voter is not going to be able to distinguish between Republicans and Democrats because at the end of the day, they have cancer, they can't afford it, and both parties are complicit.

Rich (17:11)

Yeah, it's the old as a parent, incentivize the behavior you want to see.

Kasim Rashid (17:16)

Yeah.

Rich (17:17)

If we are, if we are the parents of the health care system, why are we making it so much more profitable to sell expensive drugs and name ban drugs and do expensive procedures and unnecessary procedures and overcharge people? That's what drives the shareholder value. And the corporations are responsible for providing shareholder value more than they are for saving lives. And that goes for the hospital systems, but it also goes for the insurance companies, if we flipped that and said, well, tax dollars are going to pay for it and we're paying for outcomes and that's healthy people, that incentivizes all of the behaviors that we want to see. It incentivizes telling people, hey, you need to get preventive checkups. Everything is cheaper. When you head it off early on, you survive, you live a better life. And it also encourages people to actually make better lifestyle choices because it put, you know, puts the, puts the accountability where it belongs, but that comes at the expense of shareholders. And, and so it's just an automatic non starter because they'd rather have a million people getting sick and then you buy the share in the company and then have a million people getting healed and then they're like, oh crap, the share price dropped 50%.

Kasim Rashid (18:22)

Goldman Sachs had an article that published a few years ago with the headline, is Curing people of Illness a sustainable Business Model?

Tim (18:30)

I saw that. Yes.

Kasim Rashid (18:31)

Right. I mean, it's crazy.

Rich (18:33)

You don't even have to answer the question. I'm already angry about it.

Luke (18:35)

Just, just hearing the question enrages you.

Kasim Rashid (18:39)

Yeah, but that's the world we're in right now.

Tim (18:41)

I mean, I mean this is like talking about United Health for a second. You know, this is, this is why there was such an eruption of folks who, you know, I, I mean, I don't necessarily agree with it but like. Well, I don't agree with it but like with Magon, you know, shooting the CEO of United Health on, on the street in New York, murdering him and people were cheering it and there, all these people were horrified about it. But like when you think about it for a second. So yes, yes, a horrific street war is exactly what it is, horrific, no doubt about it. But this guy also drove like their denial of claims up way higher. Which means, I mean we can't put a number on it probably, but there's hundreds if not thousands of people. Yes, died. Yes, died because of that decision. And as you pointed out, there is no incentive in the health care industry to prioritize the health of the patient. There's zero. Right.

Rich (19:37)

It's just, it's inverted.

Tim (19:39)

It's the reverse. So like what are we doing? And I agree, Democrats, I mean, I used to be very cautious about this and you know, public option. I am, I am so ready for some sort of, I don't know what the right term, Medicare for all or whatever. Like you have to take the incentives, the financial incentives out of health care.

Kasim Rashid (19:59)

That's right.

Tim (20:00)

It's just madness.

Kasim Rashid (20:01)

We have to. And, and, and look the data, I don't care what the argument someone makes is, they're all bad for privatized healthcare. Every single one is bad. And, and I will stand by this. If you want to talk about cost, we're spending double per capita of every country on earth that guarantees healthcare, right? Talking about wait times. If our wait times are somehow better, why do we have the lowest life expectancy, the highest maternal mortality and the highest infant mortality of any developed country that guarantees healthcare, right? If you wanna talk about access to a diversity of physicians, we're not talking about fewer physicians. We're just talking about cutting out the middleman who's telling you that you can and can't go to a physician. Our daughter has a very unique life threatening illness that is fatal if not treated. We had our experts, two double board certified world leading experts tell the insurance company, this is what this little girl needs to live. And they said no. 13 times they denied us. These are board certified, like the cream of the crop, like we're talking the top of the top in the world. And they're like, nope, sorry, tough luck. Our schmuck sitting in our office thinks that this is not what she needs to live. And so there's really no need for it. The other argument I hear often is, well, what about the people who are working in the health insurance industry? You're going to lose all those jobs. Yale tackled this in their study, they tackled this in detail, published the Lancet and they found out two really cool things. One, that the amount of money saved by switching to a universal healthcare model where we're not spending double per capita would be enough to give every person in the health insurance industry 2 years severance and training for a new job as well. And in addition to that, it would also require us to grow our Medicare system. We already have Medicare, we already have Medicaid. And all they do is process these claims with a 2 to 3% overhead versus the 20 to 30% overhead that insurance companies charge. And so you're still going to need people to process claims. You're just not going to have insurance companies saying, nope, Tim, we don't think you're sick enough or no bridge, we don't think you actually have cancer. We're going to go ahead and deny it. That's all that's happening. You're just getting rid of the jerk in the middle who's telling you you can't get care. But you still are going to need to have people doing these jobs. So it's not a question of where are they going to go. It's a question of are we going to pay them a living wage to make sure we get health care or are we going to pay CEOs a bonus to buy a second private jet so that you can't get health care? It's not a very complicated decision when you break it down.

Luke (22:27)

Well, for now, I can tell you exactly what the answer will be, though.

Kasim Rashid (22:30)

Yeah, what is it?

Luke (22:33)

Oh, they're going to keep killing. Keep giving the old billionaires bonuses.

Kasim Rashid (22:36)

Yep.

Tim (22:37)

Yeah. Well, it's funny because we. Everyone always says the government is inefficient. The government is inefficient. Waste, fraud, abuse. You know, that's why Doge was created, even though he kept, you know.

Luke (22:46)

No, that was only made so we could kill 600,000 people. Get your shit straight, Tim.

Kasim Rashid (22:50)

Well, that is true.

Tim (22:51)

That was the only reason what happened when you cut USAID for sure. But like, there is the narrative, what I'm saying is that there is a narrative out there that the government isn't efficient. Well, the government is more efficient in delivering healthcare than the insurance industry.

Rich (23:03)

Yep.

Tim (23:03)

Clearly. Like, they're spending billions of dollars a year on drugs. You know, this is this thing we see on TV all the time now. I'm in my late 40s, I see more of them and it's like, ask your doctor about this thing. And I'm like, what is that? Why would I ever do that? Like, I don't have a problem. Like, why is Prilosec good for. I don't know, like, but I wouldn't. But like, they're spending all this money to sell drugs, right. And it is, it is really inefficient. So it's this, the narrative is just insane.

Kasim Rashid (23:31)

The only place the government is inefficient is when it comes to war. The Pentagon's never passed an audit, Right. We don't know how that money is. Trillions of dollars magically disappear every year. We have no idea where the hell that money goes. But when you talk about SNAP, for example, fraud, waste, fraud and abuse is 1 or 2%. When you talk about Medicaid and Medicare, waste, fraud and abuse, 1 or 2%. Because you talk about section 8 waste, fraud and abuse. 1 or 2%. It is nominal. It is overall a rounding error. And whatever money we are spending on social welfare programs, the economic benefit is 70, 80, 90. It more than makes up for any potential waste partner. And by the way, and I'll be very clear about this, if my tax Dollars go to helping somebody get a little bit more food. I'm okay with that. I don't care if you stole a second sandwich. Good. Eat. Like, I would rather have that than my tax dollars go to bomb a child in Gaza or in Nigeria or in Syria, wherever the house we're bombing in the world right now. Like, this is not. This is why I go back to the fact that I. I'm sick of the culture wars that these politicians and these billionaires keep trying to push us into. And as. As much as I despise MAGA politicians, our conservative friends out there, I will never demonize or dehumanize them because I need them to understand that I don't consider them my enemy. I don't consider them my opponent. I see them as my neighbor. And we cannot let these culture wars divide us because at the end of the day, the billionaire who's out to bankrupt me is out to bankrupt a white male Republican just the same if it means that he can get that white male Republican to hate me. And that's what we need to fight against.

Tim (25:08)

Right. Well, and I also, I got to add a country to that list because apparently we bombed Venezuela last night, according to. To President Trump, that we hit a high target. Well, it's hard to keep track of all this bullshit, right?

Rich (25:18)

But like something or other something he did.

Tim (25:20)

It was, of course, typical chum fashion. It was very big, and we were very successful. But what it was is so we're hitting. We're now bombing South America. And I mean, those missions, by the way, folks, are cost millions and millions and millions of dollars.

Rich (25:35)

Just the bombs cost millions of dollars.

Tim (25:37)

Yes, yes.

Rich (25:38)

They should give them like a. They should. They should put them in the. In the Situation Room with like a simulator up on the screen where. And. And he doesn't know that it's not real. And then he can just like, bomb anybody. Like a video game. Like, plug him into a video game. Let's see if we can coast with, you know, with him playing, like, Command and Conquer for the next season.

Luke (25:54)

I mean, like, right now he's just throwing a dart at a fucking globe and deciding where to go.

Tim (25:58)

Just put one of the expendable movies on and give him a remote control. He'll think that he's blowing stuff up. You know, it's like, just like America.

Kasim Rashid (26:04)

I posted that. For all we know, Trump got an email from a Nigerian Prince offering him 100,000 gold bars. Bombs. And that he fell for it. That's probably what happened. Yeah.

Tim (26:14)

I mean, if someone was going to fall for it. I would, I would put it more on him than one of my grandparents or something like that. But, yeah, it's just madness. And then the latest budget bill that I think Trump just signed, I think for the first time ever, the defense budget alone for 2026 is over $1 trillion, which is more than, I believe, at least the next. I think it's the next 20 countries combined. Yeah, combined.

Rich (26:40)

Basically the whole developed world, which includes.

Tim (26:44)

China and Russia, that we keep telling you are these big, like, behemoths, but like we are outspending them by a tremendous amount. Meanwhile, people can't get health care here, or, you know, they don't. They go without health care and then they go to the emergency room when they're on death door, which is the least efficient, and then you're bankrupt for life. It's just absolute madness. But going back to our original point, like the, the Trump wants to talk about, you know, Somalis in Minnesota because he doesn't want to have the real conversation about the fact that his tariffs have made everything more expensive. His poll numbers are now lower than they've ever been. And that's why we're seeing this racial fear. And that's why I'm hoping that more people on our side are talking about this. And it's great that you got this information out here and, you know, I've seen you pushing it on other places, too, because we have to, even though this stuff sounds so ridiculous, we still have to inform ourselves in order to educate, you know, our uncle or cousin, you know, your friend at home or whatever, because otherwise they're just going to think we're full of shit and that this is another thing that liberals are just screaming about any facts.

Kasim Rashid (27:49)

And we need to make clear that, look, if, if there were some people who are Somalia that committed fraud, prosecute them, yes, defending them.

Luke (27:56)

As far as I know, they have been prosecuted, right?

Kasim Rashid (27:59)

Three year investigation, 70 have been prosecuted as part of a scheme to traffic $250 million. But the part that always gets left out is that the mastermind of the entire scheme is a Midwestern white woman named Amy Bach that you probably with. Right. And like, that's what he missed. But she's the mastermind. She was the one on trial as the head mastermind that coordinated this entire thing. That doesn't excuse the other people. But when was the last time you heard that in corporate media or any acknowledgement of that whatsoever? And so I think that's a distinction here that we don't Want anyone to be, you know, pardoned from committing, you know, these fraudulent things because it's costing us absurd amounts of money. But also, let's recognize a privilege here. This is, this is the white privilege. If you're a white person who commits this, you're responsible and only you're responsible.

Tim (28:47)

Yep.

Kasim Rashid (28:47)

If you're an immigrant, if you're Somali, if you're Muslim, if you're brown, you're black, suddenly the entire community, on the mere accusation, is accountable. That is the double standard that we need to oppose, because that doesn't make any of us safer.

Rich (28:58)

Yeah, we talk about the, like, the, the double standard, the asymmetry of expectations a lot in left versus right, and that it's not just left versus right. It's like sanity versus chaos. When, when they do something like this, good journalists and good content creators and smart, educated people don't say, look at this white woman. All white women are the problem. But they do that. But they do that exact thing every chance they get. Look at the beta male. Look at the, the, the, the shooter in, in Minnesota who was, I believe, was trans. Right. Look at the tr. Look at these dangerous trans people and look at the, look at the Somalis. Look at all of the. You know, they immediately make it, then accuse us of playing identity politics by trying to protect people from their racism and, and xenophobia.

Kasim Rashid (29:47)

Well, the whole identity politics conversation, it's, it's. Yeah. And it's deliberate. It's frustrating. It's deliberate. But, you know, it's. It's easy to say for these folks on the right that I'm sick of identity politics. When you see your identity represented in politics. And, and the mere idea that somebody else of a different identity would be there is what offends you. I mean, I. When, when J.D. vance said a couple of weeks ago that you don't have to apologize for being white anymore.

Luke (30:10)

That's just white nationalist propaganda.

Rich (30:12)

That's all that is.

Kasim Rashid (30:12)

It absolutely is. Someone responded that, I don't want JD to apologize for being white. I want. Or I don't want him to apologize for the color of his skin. I want him to apologize for the content of his character. Because that's where we are right now. And I mean, just imagine, you know, white men have been. I'm talking about three white guys right now. So I know you guys know where I'm coming from. Yeah. White men have been, you know, 98% of US presidents, 94% of the US Supreme Court, 94% of the US Senate, 90% of the House, 90% of CEOs for 200 years. Right now, because you only control 85% of all that stuff. Suddenly you're being persecuted. Like, give me a break. Like, how fragile are you? How much of a snowflake are you?

Luke (30:49)

Pretty fucking fragile.

Kasim Rashid (30:51)

Your.

Rich (30:51)

Your video on that was so good, by the way, where you. And then I think you turn it into a graphic, too, because it was just going apeshit. I. I was looking up similar stats, and then I saw yours, and I was like, oh, he already did all the work. So then I went and found another one, which is that 80% of Americans work for a white CEO, which is another thing that I. It's like, God damn it. Like, and. And of course, I didn't do the gender math, but it's probably 88% white, white, male, CEOs. Yeah, sure. We see ourselves reflected in every possible. Like, from our own boss to the. To the CEO of our company to the person representing us in Congress everywhere, everywhere, everywhere. We see ourselves in every position of power reflected back to us. And then that changes for, like, one company, one time, or like somebody in the WNBA makes. Makes the headlines for five minutes, and then we're like, holy. All this woke stuff has gone. It's over way too far.

Luke (31:48)

Great replacement. That's fucking ridiculous.

Kasim Rashid (31:50)

And the thing is, like, you know, when we talk about things like meritocracy, and this is where I get upset at my fellow Asian Americans for becoming mules for the case that dismissed or ended affirmative action for university admissions. And again, I looked. I'm a numbers guy. I look at the data like, my. My decisions are based on what the facts tell us, what the data tells us. The data tells us that black students were about 8% of admissions into Harvard University. Nothing significant or major, but, you know, it's 8%. And that now is being stripped away. And we're seeing a plummeting of black and Latino admissions into Harvard University. Meanwhile, you compare that to legacy admissions, which is almost exclusively white people, because legacy admissions is based off of your father, grandfather getting admitted during Jim Crow America when black and brown people weren't allowed to be admitted, when women weren't allowed to be admitted. And you look at legacy admissions and you find out that nearly half of white students at Harvard are there because of legacy. And the argument is, well, they're probably qualified anyway. Well, Washington Post did a study and found out that three quarters of them would not have qualified on merit whatsoever. But that's never discussed. So if the question really was about meritocracy, that should have been the very first thing they went after because you're telling us that the majority of people on Legacy have no business being there whatsoever. But the fact that they ignored that and went after black kids who, by the way, were qualified shows you that it was never about meritocracy. It was again, always about white supremacy.

Tim (33:18)

Of course, that's the same argument with dei, right? They're always like, oh, dei, it's a preference program. No, it's not. D all DEI is first of all, diversity, equity and inclusion, not exclusion.

Kasim Rashid (33:30)

Right.

Tim (33:31)

And the wild thing, and I got into it, some bozo Fox contributor this weekend about it is that, like, I worked for the University of Michigan before they got rid of their DEI program, before we did this job. And I learned an awful lot about what they were doing in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, which, by the way, folks, not a lot of people that aren't white up there. And that was for kids that were on the lower on the socioeconomic scale. And so they were giving them, like they were giving them assistance to get up so that everybody is competing at the same level. It's not if you don't have your grades, you're still not going to, you're not going to get there, but it allows you to have an even playing field. And what's wild is that white people in this country in particular, Ben, have had affirmative action their entire lives. Like, we, we. It's just assumed that we are going to take these jobs and, you know, and all of these things. And what we've actually learned from DEI is that your bottom line, you have a better chance at a stronger bottom line with a diverse, diverse board, divorce, diverse leadership and staff because monolith, you know, thinking in like a monolith or one, one way of thinking is not the success, is not a successful way to succeed. And so it's just wild that in fact, what the Republicans are asking for is getting rid of affirmative action for white people. Of course, they'd lose their mind if they heard that.

Rich (34:53)

Yeah, it's true.

Kasim Rashid (34:55)

And it's actually, it's actually deadly because again to your point, Tim, affirmative action was never about admitting unqualified black and brown people. It was about ensuring qualified black and brown people and women also had access as simply as that. And remember, white women have benefited more from affirmative action than black, Latino, indigenous and Asian people combined. I mean, combined. And I want to double down on this point about how stripping this stuff away is actually deadly. There's a famous case study about how Women were dying at higher rates in Ford car accidents and they couldn't figure out why. And this conversation came up because I had a conservative friend of mine talk about these stupid degrees like gender studies. I'm like, what do you think gender studies actually is? And of course you didn't have an answer. But I cited to him the study that women were dying at higher rates in car accidents. And they found out the reason was actually very simple. The reason was that the crash test dummies that they were using were all 5, 10, 5, 11, 6ft tall, the average height of most men. And so when the accidents would happen, the way the airbag would deploy would be for a man of that height. Women being shorter were being bludgeoned to death because of the speed and the direction that these airbags were being deployed. Now, you wouldn't know that if you didn't study gender and didn't understand women have a different physiology than men. And most Republicans don't seem to understand that women have a different physiology. They keep on asking us what a woman is, but they can't define it themselves or what it is themselves. But that's what gender studies teaches. That's what having. Imagine if you had a female engineer that said, hey, hold on a Second, I'm only 5 4. This is for someone who's 6 4. This is going to kill me. Something as simple as that. So when we deny a representative access to these important positions of people who are qualified, then what we're actually doing is undermining our own safety and security. So you may be a right wing maga, conservative, alpha male, self described guy, but there's probably a woman in your life, a spouse, a daughter, a mother who isn't any of those things and who deserves to be as safe as you are when you drive and when you deny access to education that ensures women have equal safety and access, you're actually putting your own life and your own family's life in danger.

Tim (37:04)

Well, and I think this points to the, the, you know, the, the challenge or the weakness on our side of telling these stories. I mean, I bet most of the people who are listening to this right now had, and I mean, I had heard something about this a long time ago, but didn't, don't know, didn't know that, you know, and I don't think we tend to talk in these like, you know, grand, you know, top level pictures and people want details in specifics. And I do think, I mean, Trump's crazy lies all the time and he's racist but he has found a way to, to do that for people, to make them understand now for negative reasons, and that are not true. But, I mean, I think there's opportunities here for us to really explain to people in different audiences, like, this is how this affects you. Like this is actually hurting you.

Rich (37:44)

Yeah.

Tim (37:44)

And it's really, you know, this is where I think the alternative media world is going to be very influential because we all have a little bit of a different take on these things and a little bit different audience where I think we'll have, you know, real impact as, as we move into 26 and then the presidential in 28. But it's, you know, this is what the right has actually gotten right for a long time, just for nefarious reasons.

Rich (38:07)

And it's because they know how to speak to their audience. And this is like Communications Marketing 101 is know your audience. And, and also for the people in the audience, because the left is really good about hearing a message, getting angry about it, and then very vocally making sure that they, that, that, that that creator knows that they said it wrong or that they, they stepped on, you know, they stepped on a rake and it hit him in the face.

Kasim Rashid (38:27)

Yeah.

Rich (38:29)

If you don't like the message, it's possible the message isn't for you. And that's something that I think a lot of people on the left need to remember is because Trump does a really good job of what he does because he knows exactly who he's speaking to, and he packages up everything he wants people to believe and to act on into things that resonate with that audience. And his audience is very easy to cater to because it's a, it's a monolith. But then, so the left, the job is much harder. But we have to remember that in saying, like, if we could go back and rebrand affirmative action, rebrand DEI and rebrand all of these things and put them in the terms that the people who we need to communicate with understand. You know, you're talking to a finance bro or you, somebody on Wall street. You put it in terms of the balance sheet, in terms of profit margins. If you're talking to somebody who's hurting in the middle class, you put it in terms of. That they can understand that their community is stronger when there's diversity, because all they hear is, this person needs something, and so it's going to come at your expense. Well, this person gets right. This person needs rights. And we don't, we don't always frame it in a way that resonates with people who only know and care about the things that are, like, directly right in front of them. And that's something. They're not going to fix it themselves. So we have to either deal with it and try to help or, you know, berate them to death. And that has not worked in the past.

Kasim Rashid (39:49)

Mm. Yeah. Well said. I, I, I, I'd love to get you guys thoughts on this. It's probably a controversial take, but I, I'm, I always want to be respectful of ensuring that we're using words that aren't offensive to people's identities and personalities and just who they are. I think that's just basic human decency.

Rich (40:07)

Right.

Kasim Rashid (40:08)

Where I've kind of lost it is I, I'll give you an example. A few months ago, I got yelled at by folks on the left for saying homeless instead of unhoused constantly. But then I said unhoused, and I got yelled at for saying unhoused.

Rich (40:21)

Right, right. For being politically correct.

Kasim Rashid (40:24)

Yeah.

Luke (40:24)

I had a similar thing happen when I was first starting out. I used the word, the phrase differently abled instead of disabled because I thought.

Rich (40:31)

I was being like, right, you're trying to. And they're like, don't say that.

Luke (40:33)

And I was like, okay, okay. Like, whoa, pump the hate breaks there.

Kasim Rashid (40:38)

Like, yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off, Luke, but, I mean, but no, exactly what I'm talking about. That. It's like, I, I think there's a difference between calling somebody like, a slur versus using words that, for all intents and purposes don't really mean anything different. I mean, it's just, it's describing, like, either way. Like, meanwhile, the person who's unhoused or homeless or whatever you want to call it still doesn't have a goddamn house. Like, what are you arguing about?

Rich (41:01)

Right. It's just semantics. And it distracts from the point of the actual conversation, which is that person needs their body in a thing that keeps the weather off of them. Can we just, like, how do we talk?

Tim (41:10)

So, so I think. Yeah, and I, I agree with you. And I think there is a difference between somebody using a term negatively to disparage a person or group of people.

Kasim Rashid (41:20)

Yes.

Tim (41:20)

And somebody who doesn't, maybe myself included, doesn't know the difference.

Kasim Rashid (41:26)

Yes.

Tim (41:26)

I am all for somebody coming to me and saying, hey, Tim, like, you know, this is really the term, and I've had people do this, and I appreciate it.

Rich (41:34)

Yeah.

Tim (41:34)

You know, but generally, the mob comes out and is like, you piece of shit. Why Would you ever. And it's like, we all look like.

Rich (41:41)

You'Re doing Trump's work for him.

Tim (41:43)

We can't be experts in everything. Yeah, it's not possible. And yes, because I think we have shows that they see us like, they see us as, as not a mirror of themselves, but like speaking on behalf of people. And I understand that. But like, we have to be better at giving people some grace to learn and grow. And that's different from like saying to Nick Fuentes, go fuck yourself because he deserves it. Right. There's a difference. And I think we just, we are the tone police and it's killing us.

Kasim Rashid (42:14)

Yeah, it really is. I agree. No, and I want to be very deliberate. Like if I go and call someone the N word and be like, hey, I didn't know. That's very different.

Luke (42:22)

Well, they're very different.

Tim (42:23)

Exactly right.

Kasim Rashid (42:24)

That's very different than calling somebody disabled when it should have been differently abled. Like, I mean, they're, they're, you know, I'm not trying to dispute spirit in the latter example. It's trying to use the right words. And frankly, Luke, I've had that exact same experience with that phraseology as well. And people with disabilities. Is that the right phrase? I don't know anymore. But I'm going to continue to advocate for universal healthcare access for no other reason than the humanity of a person. And they should have that access. But sometimes I feel like we become our own worst enemies when we get into this kind of nitty gritty that doesn't effectively or have any practical effect on solving.

Rich (43:03)

And if you go talk to a person who's marginalized and you say, oh, I'm sorry, we're, we're. I want to make sure I say the word right before I get you in a house, that person's going to say, you know, I probably don't care so much about how you talk about it. It's really more what you're doing. Because I'm really in a bad space right now. And Tim, that's exactly it. The intent. I, we have to do a better job of assuming positive intent when it's a person who 95% of the time, even 56% of the time, is trying to do the right thing. We're all on this spectrum of being stupid about most things to being smart about everything we can be smart about. And if you know, the person is trying to go in the correct direction, like, yeah, nudge them or whatever, but call it out if it's something that is material. But but please don't make it the whole conversation because then everybody points and laughs and nothing gets done for the.

Kasim Rashid (43:57)

People in and, and it prevents people from wanting to, to improve and do better as well. I, I, I public speak a lot and I'm bilingual. I'm an immigrant to this country. Inevitably, every single audience I speak ahead of, I get people walking up to me afterwards. Almost always white liberals, some white conservatives who say, my God, you are so eloquent and articulate. I didn't expect an immigrant.

Tim (44:18)

Jesus, right?

Kasim Rashid (44:19)

And the thing is, like, they mean well. So if I do mean well said, do you know how racist you are? They would have been mortified. And so I just, I tell them, thank you, I appreciate that. And I respond in a way where they feel validated and seen because, look, it's not going to do me any good to sit there and die on the hill of how dare you give me a compliment in not the most, you know, specific way. It's so silly. It's such a dumb hill to die on. And that's kind of what I mean, that sometimes it's okay to be the quasi martyr. It's not really even being a martyr, it's just right.

Rich (44:51)

It's a very mild one that we.

Kasim Rashid (44:53)

Need to worry about too much.

Rich (44:54)

You are very articulate, by the way.

Kasim Rashid (44:56)

Super articulate.

Luke (44:58)

Do these people will just like, sit and watch, like right wingers.

Kasim Rashid (45:02)

They're like, God, we got to get.

Luke (45:03)

These goddamn homeless people off the streets. And they don't say a fucking thing. And you make a video talking about how, yeah, we should get homeless people houses and food and, and they are lining up with pitchforks to get you, well, look there. And then like the disabled thing, I made that video and a bunch of actually disabled people were like, hey, we don't love the phrase differently abled. Like, we call us disabled. And I was like, okay, the next video, like a month later, I use the word disabled.

Tim (45:27)

And it's a bunch of white liberals that are like, use the word differently able. And it's like, I don't think I will. There is, I think I'm going to listen to the people that actually know what they're talking about. There is a terrible tendency of some on our side to want to try and be the most politically pure people on the planet, and it is destructive. And I think this is why we sometimes eat our own faces, right? Because we're getting into arguments about, like, nuance, like policy issues, rather than being like, hey guys, we're all one team. Let's argue about this. We actually have the power to do something. But until then, let's stop the fascist creep that we've got now. This, this horrifically racist administration. Like, let's band together. Like, all. You see this on threads all the time. People arguing about who's going to be the presidential nominee in 2028. Like, can we retake. Can we retake the House and Senate first? Like, and then worry about that for two years? Like, also, like, it's just, it's just like.

Rich (46:19)

And I know people, the apac.

Tim (46:22)

I mean, look like, I don't want anybody that takes money from APAC either. But it's like the, the, you know, people in the Texas stuff got. I thought it was a little crazy, but, like, even. That's at least for 26. But I have people, they're like, oh, well, you know, you. You took chorus money, so you're a corporate shill. I'm like, I'm for a Green New Deal. I'm for Medicare for all. I was Elizabeth Warren supporter. And of course they're all like, well, she's a corporate shill. I'm like, okay, you are not left out of here. You are.

Luke (46:46)

You're not operating in a realm of.

Tim (46:48)

Reality, not operating in good faith here.

Rich (46:49)

You've been a corporate shill long before you took forest money. Tim, you're the og.

Tim (46:54)

True, true. I have worked a corporate job. So I, I did.

Rich (46:58)

I, I have a, A soft pivot. If, if, if we. Do you guys want to make fun of Republican men just for like five to ten minutes. Do it.

Kasim Rashid (47:06)

Yeah.

Tim (47:06)

Then. Yeah, we got a few minutes. Then we got a.

Rich (47:07)

Okay. Okay. So Wall Street Journal ran an article the other day, a column, and I was like, here we go. Because it's titled America Needs More Husband Material. And in the Wall Street Journal, when it's Rupert Murdoch and all of the. I'm like, okay, what are we getting into? Turns out it was like a Democratic staffer from Bill Clinton era who wrote it. And so I was like, oh, wow, this is mind blowing that they published it. But it turns out that what. What the. The article is about is that educated women who more and more women are getting college degrees. And it's been on an upward trend for a long time. They're still getting married at the same rate. They're still getting married about 70% as they have for like 50 years. And so who are they marrying? Because educated men or college educated men have been on a decline for the same amount of time. And so what they found was that educated women are now taking the top like 5 to 10% of non educated men in terms of earnings as their next option because they've married all of the guys with college degrees that are, that want to get married. Right. And so, but then there's still women left over who want to get married. And so they're taking now the top earning non, non college educated men and it's left uneducated men and uneducated women are the only people left in the, and I, and I talking about college degrees, not like life. But yeah, are the only people left. And so now you, then you compare that to the what, 70 point gap and approval rating between young men and young women. The husband problem I think we all know is right in front of us. But since what three of us are married, right Luke, you'll get, you'll get there. Some me, I get there. You'll get there. You know, what would you guys, what advice would you give to a non college educated man, you know, in let's say Missouri who wants to get married? What should they do? This is a slight shift. What should they do? What's it, Get a degree, Find a woman who, who's attracted to them still. I mean what, what's the.

Luke (49:12)

Don't be a piece of.

Tim (49:15)

Yeah, be respect a respectable human being that is kind and like respects others and lifts up people who need the help and don't like disparage people.

Rich (49:25)

That's beta stuff though. Do you have any like or there, is there an alpha path to being a high value male without a college degree or swear while you do it?

Kasim Rashid (49:34)

I, I, I, I think I, I mean for me and I talked, I mean I've got two boys, we got three kids, two boys and my eldest is going to be 17 next week. And you know, when I talked to him about, I said, you know, the term alpha male has been kind of commandeered by the right to mean like, you know, arrogant and blunt and loud and angry. And I'm like, to me an alpha male is somebody who leads with integrity and respect and dignity. Somebody who is secure in who they are, how they look and recognizes that true strength comes in being in self control, not being, you know, belligerent or in people's faces. You want to develop a Persona that when you walk into a room, people notice your presence because they respect you because of who you are, not because they fear you, because they don't know what you're going to do if you lose your damn mind. And I mean, I think like that I Think women will be drawn to that. Women are drawn to that. I mean, it's how I lured my wife into marrying me. Right now we're 18 years later. And so I think part of it is, like, for us on the left, we should redefine what alpha male means. As somebody who leads with a sense of compassion and conviction and sincerity in what it means to treat people with decency. You know, that. That is. Is the kind of leader that I want to see. That's the kind of leader we'd all want to work for. That's the kind of leader we'd want to have as. As a father. Right. That's. That's the kind of father figure we need until. Unless we can do that, we're gonna. It kind of goes back to the. Where we started this conversation. We'll keep seeding control of the narrative to the right of what these terms mean, and we don't need to do that. We can lead by example ourselves. And I think we do that consistently enough, we'll have success.

Tim (51:15)

That's great. Well, I'm gonna. I'm gonna end it there because we are at the hour. We could pick that up more, but yes, guys, if you're listening, don't be an asshole. Women don't want that. That. Start off. Start off with that. Kasim, thank you very much. It is so great to have you on. I know we've. We've known each other for a while, and it's so great to finally do something online together and everybody go check out Kasib's substack in that article today. We've also got two guys wearing merch. I'm not going to do my whole spiel because it's the middle nowhere week, and you don't want to hear it again.

Rich (51:44)

So people are just eating cheese and eating chocolate.

Tim (51:47)

Chocolate at home maybe. Maybe too many drinks at night or whatever. And, you know, being gluttonous that they should.

Rich (51:52)

All the above.

Tim (51:52)

But anyways, guys, have a wonderful New Year's where January is going to be a big month for us. I think we're going to be announcing some of the new projects that we're working on and some other exciting things and that this is really becoming a media company. We're really excited about to do some of the work that the left has not done in a long time, so we're really excited to do that. So everybody, have a wonderful, wonderful rest of your time off. Enjoy this week where time doesn't matter, and we'll see you next week. Take care, guys.

Kasim Rashid (52:21)

Peace out.

Rich (52:22)

Bye.