Trump, Epstein, and the Emails: What Did He Know?

Summary

The Find Out Podcast

Episode Title: Trump, Epstein, and the Emails: What Did He Know?
Release Date: November 13, 2025

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Episode Overview

On this highly charged episode, the Find Out Podcast team dives into breaking news: newly released emails from Jeffrey Epstein, implicating former President Donald Trump in knowledge—and possibly presence—during Epstein’s criminal activities. The hosts, a group of left-wing content creators, break down the potential political fallout, the MAGA response, and the broader implications for American politics in Trump’s second term. The roundtable also veers into the importance of justice, Democratic Party messaging failures, movement politics, and policy priorities ranging from healthcare to statehood—delivered with their trademark irreverence and honesty.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Breaking News: The Epstein Emails and Trump

• [00:00 – 01:47]
  The show opens with the host announcing the explosive news: the Democrats have released emails suggesting Trump’s awareness and involvement in Epstein’s world, including spending time with a victim.
• The team’s skepticism quickly emerges:

  “Is this the smoking gun? Have we finally got it?” — Host [01:10]
  “No, not a snowball's chance in hell.” — Co-host 1 [01:48]

2. Media, Michael Wolff, and Moral Failure

• [01:52 – 03:07]
  The crew discusses journalist Michael Wolff’s troubling involvement—offering PR advice to Epstein and attempting to blackmail Trump, raising questions about media ethics.

  “…Michael Wolf, who appears to have been giving PR advice to a convicted pedophile to blackmail the man who would become the president...his career should be affected by it.” — Co-host 4 [01:52]

3. Right-Wing Denial, QAnon, and Cognitive Dissonance

• [03:07 – 04:47]
  The discussion turns to the right-wing and QAnon reactions, as conspiracy theorists who built their identities around elite pedophile rings now refuse to believe evidence against Trump.

  “If there is a video of him doing it…[they] will tell you that it's not real.” — Co-host 1 [03:36]
  “These people were so dedicated to this idea…now it's like, actually, some of that was real and here's the evidence. And they're like, no, no, no, no.” — Co-host 4 [03:49]

4. Partisan Accountability (or Lack Thereof)

• [04:49 – 07:46]
  The group reflects on their willingness to hold “their own” accountable, contrasting with MAGA fixation on personality cults:

  “You were friends with a pedophile. We're done.” — Co-host 1 [05:08] They compare how Democrats would react if Obama were implicated, noting, “It's still not like, I would be sad, but...” — Co-host 1 [06:33].

5. Identity Politics and the Erosion of Empathy

• [07:50 – 10:46]
  Discussion centers on how MAGA politics has fused political, religious, and communal identities, making Trump’s personal failings irrelevant to supporters. Contrasted with the left’s ability to separate politicians from personal identity.

6. Retribution, Justice, and Democratic Weakness

• [11:33 – 13:59]
  The hosts debate the missing “justice” impulse in Democratic politics:

  “I have a hole in my heart that can only be filled with fucking justice.... America needs justice, and that is something that I think Democrats in office need to really start fucking embracing.” — Co-host 4 [11:43] “Fuck Merrick Garland. Till the day I die. Motherfucker did nothing.” — Co-host 1 [13:29]

7. Messaging Failure: Crimes, Narratives, and the Middle

• [13:59 – 21:23]
  The team evaluates why Trump’s criminal charges, like the 34 felonies, don’t resonate—because they’re complex and don’t draw a straight line for the public.

  “...it doesn't scream, oh, this guy's a serious criminal. It screams, yeah, they found a way to fucking get him on some charges through some backdoor shit. That doesn't play well outside of the base.” – Co-host 3 [14:52]
  They agree “victimless” crimes lack impact, while direct narratives (like the Mar-a-Lago documents) have more power.

8. What Should Democrats Do If They Retake Congress?

• [21:23 – 35:51]
  The plan: Oversight, investigations, and legislative focus on affordability and healthcare. Suggestions abound to impeach not just Trump, but the entire corrupt administration if warranted.

  “...on January 1, when the new Congress is sworn in, they should fucking file articles of impeachment against every one of these motherfuckers.” — Co-host 4 [34:41] “We're literally, like, finding fishing boats in the Caribbean and obliterating them...I have not seen any evidence to suggest that they were drug runners…” — Host [35:51]

9. Policy Priorities: Healthcare, Statehood, Economic Populism

• [41:21 – 53:37]
  A spirited exchange about where Democrats must focus—universal healthcare and affordability, with a consensus that bold, unapologetic action is necessary, and messaging should emphasize tangible economic benefit over abstract rights.

  “We get way into the weeds and then it sounds like we don't know what we're doing.” — Co-host 2 [46:39] “Don’t explain anything. Look at how [Trump] won people… He just said the outcome.” — Co-host 2 [46:38];
  They also discuss the implementation challenges of major reform: “There will be dramatic challenges… hundreds of thousands of jobs to go away. It's going to restructure how we do everything with pharmaceutical companies and development. So like there is a cascade effect...” — Co-host 3 [51:02]

10. Key Takeaways and Future Strategy

• [53:37 – 56:00]
  Calls to “just do it carefully,” not to get lost in explanations, and to hit Republicans across multiple issues at once—healthcare, statehood, and voting reform.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On QAnon denial:

  “These people were so dedicated to this idea that there's this huge pedophile ring, and now it's like, actually, some of that was real and here's the evidence. And they're like, no, no, no, no.” — Co-host 4 [03:49]

• On holding leaders accountable:

  “You were friends with a pedophile. We're done.” — Co-host 1 [05:08]
  “If this kind of shit came out about [Obama], I wouldn't go, we're done.” — Host [05:06]

• On Democratic weakness in seeking justice:

  “Fuck Merrick Garland. Till the day I die. Motherfucker did nothing.” — Co-host 1 [13:29]

• On the importance of straight-line narratives:

  “The reason the 34 felonies thing didn't work is because it's not a straight line.” — Co-host 3 [20:39]
  “…pictures of his bathroom with documents…” — Host [21:07]

• On mass impeachment:

  “…they should fucking file articles of impeachment against every one of these motherfuckers.” — Co-host 4 [34:55]

• On strategic messaging:

  “When you're explaining, you're losing... Don't fucking explain anything.” — Co-host 2 [46:39]

• On universal healthcare benefits:

  “The average person would save $7,000 a year with this. Like, that's insane.” — Co-host 3 [49:05]

• On the dangers of incrementalism:

  “You don't need the political capital. You just need to fucking do it.” — Co-host 4 [43:30]

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Timestamps – Important Segments

• [00:00] – Breaking: Epstein emails implicating Trump
• [01:52] – Michael Wolf’s journalistic malfeasance
• [03:36] – Right-wing denial, QAnon cognitive dissonance
• [05:08] – Politicians and personal accountability
• [11:43] – "I have a hole in my heart that can only be filled with fucking justice."
• [13:59] – Narrative failures, the “middle” and the 34 felonies debate
• [21:23] – What Congressional Democrats should do if they win
• [34:41] – Mass impeachment as a norm-resetting tool
• [41:21] – Healthcare, economic messaging, and movement politics
• [46:39] – Messaging: stop explaining, start selling
• [49:05] – $7,000/year in potential savings from universal healthcare
• [51:02] – The challenge: full-scale health system reform

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Overall Tone and Style

The episode is a raw, funny, and furious roundtable—unapologetically biased, anti-MAGA, and passionate about justice. The team balances irreverent banter (“My flabbers remain ungasted”) with deep dives into political strategy, hypocrisy, and what true accountability should look like. The focus remains on real talk and hard truths, with spirited disagreement and a sense of camaraderie and urgency.

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Closing

The episode wraps with customary banter about upcoming guest interviews, podcast merch, and where the show is headed next—all while keeping the “signal, not the noise” promise to their audience.

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For listeners who missed this episode:
You’ll come away with a deep understanding of the left’s frustrations (and strategies) during Trump’s second term, a critical analysis of recent Epstein revelations, and a no-bullshit approach to politics in one of America’s wildest eras.

Transcript

[Host]

Foreign. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Find out podcast. Today we weren't actually expecting to talk about this, but we had breaking news that it the Democrats have released an email or emails from Jeffrey Epstein himself that seems to suggest that Donald Trump knew everything that was going on with Jeffrey Epstein. And even in that email it suggested that Donald Trump was even in a house with one of the victims for several hours. So the thing that we were all expecting to happen has happened, essentially.

[Co-host 1]

I have more breaking news. Yeah, a fork was found in the kitchen.

[Co-host 2]

I, I saw Tim or Luke commented on one of his own videos the other day in response to somebody and he said something along the lines of my flabbers remain ungasted.

[Co-host 1]

My jaw stays firmly in place.

[Co-host 3]

I like that.

[Host]

Yeah. So with this. And we've also heard that Adelita Grahalva should be sworn in today around 4 o' clock Eastern and has indicated that she will vote in favor or add her name to the discharge petition, which means that the Epstein files theoretically will be released. Though we've also heard that Nancy Mace, Republican from South Carolina, is waffling on whether she wants to withdraw her name, which I didn't know you could actually add your name, withdraw it, add it back and all this stuff. But what do we think, guys? Is this, is this the smoking gun? Is, have we finally got it?

[Co-host 1]

No, no, not, not a snowball's chance in hell.

[Co-host 4]

Yeah, I think the smoking gun is on journalist Michael Wolf, who appears to have been giving PR advice to a convicted pedophile to blackmail the man who would become the president. That, that is, that is pretty fucking damning. This is a guy who has written several books about the Trump presidency and the behind the scenes stuff. And it appears that he has had more than a journalist's influence on the world that we live in today. So that, that is a smoking gun and his career should be affected by it.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, you should quickly. I would hope so. But put quotes on, on Michael Wolf's journal, the journalist part that you said, because that guy is, has been problematic for a long time. But yeah, it's really fascinating to see him offering PR advice, like you said, to a convicted pedophile and, and also trying to blackmail another person who has been credibly accused of sexual assault like 20 times.

[Co-host 1]

Many times.

[Host]

Many, many, many times. So I think we know why Donald Trump didn't want the Epstein files released, even if it's not a smoking gun. Clearly he did not want this to come out.

[Co-host 1]

You know, my question is, does he really care?

[Co-host 3]

No.

[Co-host 1]

Because I don't think he does. I don't think he gives two solitary because I, I, you already see it online. These people are already making excuses. Well, it was Joe Biden. And you know, if this was real, Joe Biden would have released it. Never mind the fact that the court said he couldn't do that.

[Host]

Right.

[Co-host 1]

You know, there are, It's Obama. It's all fake. It's AI like they, they will fudgeing, walk themselves right into a corner. That none of this is real. Even if it's fucking. If there is a video of him doing it.

[Host]

Right.

[Co-host 1]

Will tell you that it's not real.

[Co-host 4]

Fucking wild is that there were millions of people who subscribed to QAnon conspiracy theories and shaped their entire fucking lives around it. Like, lost friends, didn't have contact with their families. Like, probably still can't talk to their fucking kids. These people were so dedicated to this idea that there's this huge pedophile ring, and now it's like, actually, some of that was real and here's the evidence. And they're like, no, no, no, no.

[Co-host 2]

I can't hear you, can't see anything.

[Co-host 4]

It, it, like, it's weird to me to like, wish that, that there were a part of QAnon that survived the last few years, because that's where we are today. We have millions of Americans who became obsessed with pedophilia in a weird kind of way, and now they're ignoring it because Donald Trump is very closely associated with it. So clearly.

[Co-host 3]

I mean, it's a beautiful wish for thing.

[Host]

Yeah, right, right.

[Co-host 1]

That's the thing with me, though is, like, it really makes me think less of people that, like, you could have this evidence directly in front of your eyes, but because it's about your God, King, you don't give a fuck. Right? Like, there is not a single politician on the goddamn planet that if this kind of shit came out about them, I wouldn't go, we're done.

[Host]

Yeah, no, we're done.

[Co-host 1]

You were friends with a pedophile. We're done.

[Co-host 2]

And that's it for me. Like, there's not a single Democrat I've ever seen anywhere online. And comments, like, we say some stupid shit out there, you know, on the Internet, our people sometimes. But I've never seen anyone say, like, well, if Bill Clinton's in the files, and that changes how I view the files. Like, everybody's just like, no, chuck them all the fuck out. Like, it doesn't matter. Nobody's immune because we don't see, we don't have this like, thing where our religion, our, our identity and our politics and our leaders are all part of the same, like, cocktail. And if you throw out, right. And if, and if any of it is tainted, then that means we have to give up everything we are. It's like, no, that's, that's a leader. These are my political beliefs. These are my religious beliefs, if you have any. And we can separate those things out and think critically about them. But, but the right has turned it so that your entire identity, your entire life, your community, every single thing about you is the same thing. And so if anybody comes at any of it, if you say Fox News is fake, then they lose their shit. If you say some parts of Christianity are not doing great things, they say, why do you hate Christmas? Like, it's just. They cancel or nothing.

[Co-host 1]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

Fucking ridiculous.

[Co-host 3]

The only one I would be like, actually bummed about would be Obama.

[Host]

If Obama, I would be sad, but because he's so.

[Co-host 1]

It's still not like, I would be sad, but not like, oh, no evidence about pedophiles, because it might not. It might incriminate.

[Co-host 2]

Exactly. I'm not going to protect him from it if it's true.

[Co-host 3]

Yeah. But the parallel is interesting because like, Obama, I mean, like, it's different, but like, Obama is like the Trump of the left where it's like, we all really like him and we're all behind him. I mean, obviously behaviorally there they couldn't be more different, but there is like a God level to both of them for each party. But I do agree, like, if this happened to Obama, I think we'd all be like. But we wouldn't be like, no, no, no. Protect him. I'd be like, well, he did it, so you know, he's got to go. But it would be a bummer.

[Host]

Yeah, I think anybody who does that needs to be prosecuted. I don't, I don't care. Like, you know, it would be sad if it was Obama. And we've talked about other people who would be sad, like a Tom hanks or a Mr. Rogers or somebody like that.

[Co-host 4]

Right.

[Host]

Like, these are like, they would be gut punches, but it's because they turned out not to be the person that we thought they were. And I think that's the bigger distinction with these guys who they just go, well, we just want him in power because we like the things he does politically and we just don't care about the moral depravity. Depravity.

[Co-host 1]

Some of Them like that part. Right. Because like the rape thing, he was found civilly liable for it.

[Host]

Yeah. Like for sexual assault.

[Co-host 1]

He fucking did it. And they don't give a shit. They don't care.

[Co-host 3]

I mean, I think some of them like it. It's a movement thing though, right? Like, because, I mean, I think it's. The only reason I brought up Obama, I think is because it's, it's comparable in terms of like, if Trump goes down, MAGA won't go down, but it'll get severely damaged. And if Obama went down, I think it would do a significant amount of damage to the left because he is really like the only, like, highly respected leader we've had since Bill Clinton. Really. And even that is debatable. So it's like, I don't know about that one. Well, these are the two movement killer type, you know that. I think that's the level. There's, there's a reason beyond just like, oh, I don't care that Trump did this for them. I think they, they see the vulnerability in, oh, if Trump goes down, a lot of this whole movement is going to go down. Which means by extension I go down and my belief system gets less valuable.

[Co-host 1]

So, like, I get more upset if Mr. Rogers was on the list than if Obama was on the list.

[Co-host 3]

Yeah, I mean, I don't like that.

[Host]

That's not, not my favorite choice. But yes, I, I would agree with that.

[Co-host 2]

These are bad decisions overall. Like, these are. I don't want to make any of these calls.

[Host]

Yeah, no, I know. Well, I think that there is a large segment of MAGA and the population in general who thinks that white men can do no wrong. And. Yeah. And they, as long as they follow this, you know, what we think is bullshit masculinity guide of acting strong and saying these words and putting people down, then who cares about a little sexual assault in the, in a bus or a, or on an island or wherever. They just, they just don't care. And I think that is a hard thing for us to square because we care a lot about empathy and kindness and respect and they really don't. And I do think that that is one of the biggest distinctions between the right and the left at this point is that though, and I, I mean the right, the MAGA right. I don't mean the, the traditional is that like they don't give a right. Yeah. That's all. That's really what's left. I mean, I don't, I'm not saying like Adam Kinzinger, who we Talked to the other day is like this. But like, the MAGA people, they don't care.

[Co-host 1]

We're ready to starve people, they don't give a.

[Host]

Exactly. They don't care if Donald Trump committed sexual assault, rape, whatever. What they care about is, is basically kicking immigrants out of the country, owning the libs. I'm not sure what else is really important other than those things.

[Co-host 2]

Like, they, yeah, they, they care about what he tells them to care about. And that's the thing. It's like they, they, they don't come to the. They're always two, three steps ahead of us because we were like, hey, look at. He's a bad person. He said something that's really offensive. He's taking food away from, from poor black people. And they're like, yeah, right, because he said that he wants to do that and therefore that's what we want him to do. They, they, they don't care about anything really. And that's, that's the thing that's been hardest to watch is people who, and we talked about this a little bit with Adam Kinzinger, but people who have claimed for, you know, 50 years to be Christians suddenly are doing things that are not just like arguably non Christian or non Christ. Like, they're doing things that are just profoundly horrific and despicable for everybody, regardless.

[Co-host 1]

Of series of the lady who's calling the churches with a.

[Co-host 2]

Like, yeah, oh yeah, I just heard.

[Co-host 1]

About that yesterday of a baby crying in the background asking for formula. And like, I think she's over like an 80% rejection rate from churches. They can't, they can't get her any.

[Co-host 2]

There was a getter. Any formula. There's like an Islamic temple, I think that immediately offered her whatever she needed and even said like, right, Hindu temple.

[Co-host 1]

And there's a mosque. Yeah, well, look, she called a fucking biker club and they, they were on it. But the fucking churches.

[Co-host 2]

It was. The Christian church has had the lowest response. Positive.

[Co-host 4]

The thing that MAGA cares about, that I don't think that we care about, but, but I personally do, is the idea of retribution or.

[Host]

Yep.

[Co-host 4]

Let me, let me phrase it a better way. Justice. Right.

[Co-host 1]

Yep.

[Co-host 4]

In their minds, like Donald Trump has been telling them for 10 years, these are the people who are responsible for you being a fucking loser for you, like, losing, you know, your job or whatever. Right. Like, he has created a scapegoat. And the thing that MAGA wants is to punish the scapegoat. In the most common case, it's immigrants or it's women. Or people of color. Right, that. Yeah, or trans folks. They're taking away all your, you know, your girls fucking medals. Even though there's like five trans people playing sports in the fucking country. Right? Yeah, in, in college sports, like out of millions. So I think that, that we need to be more focused on that. Like, I, I need, I have a hole in my heart that can only be filled with fucking justice. Like, I don't just want Trump to get embarrassed because he was, you know, at, at best, tolerant of pedophilia. Like, I want him to pay a price for that. And that is, I think, what, what Democrats are missing from the party platform. Like, we need to, I don't give a shit that Donald Trump pardoned fucking Rudy Giuliani and all of the insurrectionists, including ones who were found guilty of felonies for assaulting officers in uniforms on January 6th. Right. I don't care like that, that the pardon has already happened. Like, we need to find something else to prosecute those people. For America needs justice. And that is something that I think Democrats in office need to really start fucking embracing. Because the energy's there. I know I've got it.

[Co-host 1]

Everybody wants it. Fuck Merrick Garland. Till the day I die. Motherfucker did nothing.

[Host]

Part of the reason, part of the reason we're in this mess is because we haven't done that in the past. Right? Nobody was held accountable for the financial collapse in 2008 and 2009. Nobody. Millions of people lost jobs, millions of people lost their retirements, and no one paid a price. Nobody. I mean, the only people pay the price is the same people who pay the price all the time, which is the poor and working class people that have to, to do this. So I'm 100% with you.

[Co-host 3]

I think it's, it's an ingredient in the stew. But I think my, my, my caution as somebody who sits much more in the middle is be careful with how much you pursue that. Because I think, like, Democrats really want that. People in the middle don't want this at all. People in the middle want you to like, go and create new charges just to go after Trump. They are not liking what Trump is doing. They don't want to see the same shit from the other side. So, like, yes, we should pursue retribution when appropriate, but, like making our whole party platform, hey, fuck these guys. We're gonna go get them. You gotta balance it, right?

[Co-host 1]

It's like depends though, right?

[Co-host 3]

In the recipe it's gonna make.

[Co-host 1]

There's a difference between being like, we're Going to get him and being like, yeah, he withheld snap. That was illegal. We're going to.

[Co-host 3]

Sure. No, that. That's what I mean.

[Host]

Like, we'll get him. Like, you would have been fed if.

[Co-host 1]

It weren't for him.

[Co-host 4]

Right, exactly. And we don't. We don't need to make up. Right. Like.

[Host]

Right.

[Co-host 2]

There's more than enough on the table.

[Co-host 3]

Here's a perfect example that already happened. The 34 felonies thing, that doesn't play outside the Democratic Party didn't play for me. It played for everybody else in the party. Because it sounds great, this guy's a felon. But then people in the middle can go, yeah, he's a felon. But, like, the way you arrive at those charges is very like, you have to take a real winding road to get there. I get it. Like, legally it's correct, but it doesn't, like, it doesn't scream, oh, this guy's a serious criminal. It screams, yeah, they found a way to fucking get him on some charges through some backdoor shit. That doesn't play well outside of the base. It just doesn't.

[Co-host 4]

Well, I think the Democrats learned today how to do this. Like, they. They very deliberately, you know, had a fucking horrific couple of hours or days because they decided to just capitulate on the shutdown.

[Co-host 3]

Yeah.

[Co-host 4]

Yeah. All of. All of their base was fucking pissed.

[Co-host 3]

Yes.

[Co-host 4]

Now, I don't. I don't think people are going to be talking about the shutdown very much. Like, they have moved the shiny object in the same way that Donald Trump is so talented at doing.

[Co-host 3]

Yes.

[Co-host 4]

By putting out these, like, really, really fucking damning. Epstein.

[Co-host 1]

Here comes your $2,000 text, folks. Well.

[Co-host 3]

Well, actually, the correct amount of salt in the. In the recipe.

[Host]

Right.

[Co-host 3]

Like, Democrats should have stayed on message with that and fucking attack. Like, that's where they need to add the. The ingredient in more. Right. If that's the balance I'm talking about.

[Host]

We were joking before that, you know, if I. Because I. I live in Brooklyn, I. I'm not. I won't be surprised if I look out my window and I see Chuck Schumer doing cartwheels and backflips. Because this information came out because he was getting absolutely crushed. I think there's still some debate about whether how much of that was his responsibility or not, but he is the leader, so at the end of the day, it is on him. But I do think, put a foot up his ass. I do. Well. Well, maybe you'll have that opportunity. He may. He may.

[Co-host 3]

Come on the show.

[Host]

We'll see. But, you know, I, I.

[Co-host 3]

Right, yeah.

[Host]

You know, I think that this is the way to do it. And I agree we can't make things up, but this, this administration has broke the law in so many different places that it wouldn't even be hard. And Rudy's like, making it up at all. Like, Rudy, how much you index on it? Rudy's been banking bankrupted. Right. Like, and he's been disbarred. Like, I do think that he did help incite an insurrection and then lied about our election. So, like, he needs to be held accountable for that too. The other thing I just wanted to point out about the difference between the Republicans and the Democrats that someone mentioned to me the other day, which I thought was really telling, and this is on the empathy thing, is when SNAP benefits were being cut and it was looking like poor and workingclass Americans were not going to get those benefits, people on the left stood up and started raising money.

[Co-host 1]

I mentioned this.

[Host]

Yeah. Was it you? Oh, then you go ahead and talk about this. You talk about it then. Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

It wasn't a single Republican creator that joined up to raise money to feed people. No, not one. Nobody had a link in their bio. Nobody was doing charity work. Not any of them. But then you look at the creators on the left and like 90 of them had a link in their bio that you could donate to, to feed, to feed people. I mean, there's a one, the coalition that Tim and I were part of, it's like they raised $600,000 to feed people. Show me a single Republican creator that had any hand in any of that.

[Co-host 4]

It's worse than that because Republican creators were out there actively sabotaging these fundraising campaigns. Like they were saying that all of the news and not like creators going out and filming videos, like local TV channels around military bases were filming huge fucking lines of uniformed military personnel lining up at soup kit, or not soup kitchens, but pantries and, and MAGA creators are like, out there trying to tell their followers that, oh, this is AI. Like, they, they wanted people to just not believe that the pain was real and that it was, you know, the people that they've try to fucking use as, as props all the fucking time.

[Co-host 2]

Zach. I think when it comes to justice, I think something that we've learned from the shutdown fight is like Democrats don't know what battles to pick almost ever. And that's become much more like how to choose the right battles, I think has become more clear because there's so much chaos. Right. You can be outraged at everything Trump does all the time. I think your point on the 34 felonies is like at face value, it looks like a white collar, victimless crime that's sort of like inside baseball. And when you have a CEO, billionaire, self made, like these are all fake, but, you know, self made, Wall street billionaire guy, I think people to some degree assume that there's a certain amount of like white collar shenanigans, tomfoolery that takes place with those kind of people. And so I think a lot of that gets thrown out because there's not a direct obvious victim. And that direct obvious victim isn't me or my pocketbook, as they say. And so with this fight, you know, with the shutdown battle, it was very plain, like there was a very short direct line between what Democrats were trying to prevent from happening and, you know, what was going to happen if they, if they caved. And that's why it was effective. That's why they were winning the PR battles. Like, no, you look at your, like, go get a quote right now on the marketplace. Just go get a fucking quote and tell me if it's acceptable. That is what we are trying to stop from happening. And that was a very easy winnable argument. But it was also a middle class, working class economic argument, which is the other piece that we have to tie everything back to. I mean, that's what mom Donnie did. That's what all of the most effective wins have become, have been because somebody is fighting for like average people on basic economic issues. And if we can remember that, we can find a way to, you know, to, to continue to harness that because he's going to, he's not going to stop fudgeing over the middle class over the next year.

[Co-host 3]

I mean, the thing I agree with all that and the thing I take away from the most is it is this sort of like the reason the 34 felonies thing didn't work is because it's not a straight line, like you say. Like it's not like you can just put a label on it and go, this is what he did. Even if you don't directly connect it to people. Right. Like if the Mar A Lago thing had actually gone through and he'd been convicted of fucking treason. That's the one. That's the easiest thing ever. Donald Trump is a treasonous piece of shit. He fucking stole classified documents, photos of.

[Co-host 2]

His bathroom with documents.

[Host]

Well, and refused to give them back. Right. Also refused to give them back.

[Co-host 3]

Exactly. Easiest narrative argument. And there you Have a bunch of people in the middle who saw the 34 felonies thing and went. And they would have seen that and went, holy shit. Like, that's the difference. You have to have this, like, clear narrative. And that one was just so only.

[Co-host 1]

The judges had made him show up.

[Co-host 3]

I know. And fucking quit trying.

[Co-host 4]

Donald Trump has still never been charged with treason. He's never been charged with anything.

[Co-host 2]

January 6th.

[Co-host 4]

January 6th. So the next president or the next attorney general would.

[Host]

Would be able to do that.

[Co-host 4]

There. There is no statute of. There are statutes of limitations on a lot of things, but severe crimes like that do not have the same statute of limitations. So I. I'm. I'm a patient. Like, I will sit around.

[Host]

Wait for that. Wait.

[Co-host 4]

Yeah, wait for that.

[Co-host 3]

They should go.

[Co-host 4]

But it needs to be done.

[Co-host 3]

Yes.

[Co-host 1]

I would watch him get charged for treason if he was a doddering, slobbering, oh, 100, not all there mother, heal.

[Co-host 3]

Him into the courtroom.

[Co-host 1]

I don't care if he's 90, dead on the witness stand. I would watch with popcorn the entire trial.

[Co-host 2]

Okay, what. What if it was. What's the word? Is it posthumously? Posthumously? So what if he had already died? Like, in a weird way, I'd still.

[Co-host 1]

Want to see it.

[Co-host 2]

In a weird way, I would almost like that more. Because then he couldn't clap back on truth social about it. Like, he couldn't control the narrative. It would just be like, hey, your legacy's fucked.

[Co-host 1]

I want to see him. And you're not saying the annals of history.

[Co-host 2]

Yes.

[Co-host 3]

No, I agree with you completely. That needs to happen no matter what. And I think it will. I don't think. I think it doesn't really matter who becomes the next president. Those are things where it's, like, so egregious. You have to go back after it because it was so clear. Like, I mean, Cannon fucked the whole thing up. But I remember. I remember watching that in the, you know, the early 2000s and being like, this is the thing that's going to get him. I was so confident the second she became the judge. Like, fuck, it's never going to happen now. It's so obvious. But, I mean, that was the home run to me. Like, even the Jan 6 one was, like, it was way better than the 34 felonies one. But even that was missing the smoking gun. Like, there was a lot of terrible shit in there, but this one was like, there's everything you need. It's right fucking there for you. So that's the one I'd go after 100%.

[Co-host 2]

Good thing we had the case in Florida. That was smart.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Co-host 3]

Really?

[Host]

I mean, I think the next Attorney General needs to be an attack dog. Yes, I think it needs to be.

[Co-host 1]

I want you to grab that mother.

[Host]

It could be. It could be Kamala Harris. Sally Yates, who was the Deputy Attorney General and first Trump term before he fired her. Doug Jones, who has literally prosecuted the kkk. He was who I wanted instead of Garrett Merrick Garland. Anyways. No judges. No judges as Attorney generals. No, stop. I'm sorry. Attorney General is a political position, and it needs to be run by somebody with the. You know, they need to be honest and fair and follow the information. But what you see happening at the Department of Justice is criminal. I mean, they basically gotten rid of the whole civil rights division. What's going on at Homeland Security, and why are we buying $137 million worth of jets for Kristi Noem to fly around? Like, what. What is going on with all this money that all of a sudden Eric Trump is a billionaire and it's all through crypto and we have no idea where it's coming from? I want an investigation of Jared Kushner getting a $2 billion deal from the Saudis right after Trump left office. There is so much shit. And I also think that we need to start normalizing, going after CEOs who break the law, because that is a very good point that you guys make. And I agree. When I saw that, that that case was going to be the first one, I was like, that is not the first one we want to go with. But he did commit crimes. He did. And we are not. And I'm not defending. I'm actually agreeing with you, but I'm saying that I don't think. Because we didn't go after anybody in 2008 on the financial crisis, Americans are kind of like, wait, are these crimes?

[Co-host 1]

No, they don't like it.

[Co-host 3]

They're crying.

[Host]

Think of it as, like, Right, But.

[Co-host 1]

I'm saying, like, that that's just business. Like, that's. That's how it goes. She just got caught.

[Co-host 3]

Yeah, right.

[Host]

I mean, Bear Stearns went poof. Like, all these companies went. Went poof. And all these people lost everything, and the people who running those companies lost nothing.

[Co-host 3]

Yeah, it's true. It's also because nobody understands it. Like, everybody looks at the housing crisis all. And all the. That happened with that and went, I don't know what happened. And it's like, yeah, that's how you get away with it, because you don't understand, right.

[Co-host 2]

You're like, oh, it was the credit default swap.

[Co-host 3]

Obviously, that's, obviously that's what videos did, derivatives.

[Co-host 2]

Like, they should have done more quantitative easing and that would have fixed everything.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. No, but I think our listeners just.

[Co-host 2]

Turned off their vodka.

[Host]

I think one thing that boring. Well, one thing that Donald Trump has always done very well is he always finds a villain and he portrays himself as the hero. We don't do that. Like, we should be doing more of that. And I think it's disingenuous.

[Co-host 2]

Right. And we just, like, we don't, we won't do the things that, that they do. We're always fighting on uneven.

[Host]

But I also think going after Donald Trump for crimes and investigating this for crimes does it like it's real.

[Co-host 2]

It's a little ingenuous.

[Host]

Yeah, it's ingenuous. Yeah. Pro. Genuous. Progenious.

[Co-host 1]

Genuine.

[Host]

Yeah, Genuine.

[Co-host 3]

Oh, genuine, right, Genuine. Yeah.

[Host]

Let's not try no English here. Yeah. I don't know. But anyways, well, I think we've beaten that, that horse.

[Co-host 1]

So. Wait, can I do a quick poll?

[Co-host 3]

Yeah, sure.

[Co-host 1]

Of all of us who thinks two things. One, the Epstein files get released, and two, there's actually something in there that matters.

[Co-host 3]

One of the, I guess the first part.

[Co-host 1]

So the first one who thinks it gets released.

[Host]

I.

[Co-host 2]

Just don't. I've seen this movie before and I didn't like it the first 14 times.

[Co-host 4]

Yeah, I think there's going to be a defector. I mean, there's like no amount. I mean, there's, there's no such thing as bribery anymore. Right. Like, it's not, it's not a criminal offense to like, pay people off anymore in the Trump administration. So. I mean, Donald Trump is, is selling fucking pardons for millions of dollars.

[Host]

Like a bag of cash on his camera.

[Co-host 1]

Doesn't matter.

[Co-host 4]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

So it's only $50,000. That's not that much.

[Co-host 4]

So there's, there's like, absolutely. There's no rules and norms. There's no law that's stopping Donald Trump from just saying to, you know, Nancy Mace, hey, I will just, I don't know, suppress the, out of Democratic votes in South Carolina if you, you know, want to win that governor's race and just I'll endorse you for governor.

[Co-host 1]

Oh, wait, that doesn't seem to go well.

[Co-host 3]

Yeah, so.

[Co-host 4]

Yeah, so. So I think the chances of the files getting released are they're, they're very low.

[Co-host 3]

I don't know if it's zero. Just like my only Reason why I hold on for a little bit of hope is I think, like, it's really going to be dependent on how MAGA reacts, because, like, the whole reason this is even a conversation is because so much of Mag defected from Trump, went, no, I want to see that. And if there's a bunch of people who are like, well, I feel like the tides have turned against me and I have to kind of go with the MAGA group. And I see. We see that. I mean, there's defectors who feel that way.

[Co-host 1]

He seems really, really confident. Is the only thing that gives me pause.

[Co-host 3]

Yeah.

[Host]

Who does?

[Co-host 2]

I don't know.

[Co-host 1]

Thomas Massey.

[Host]

Oh, yeah, He.

[Co-host 4]

I mean, he.

[Co-host 1]

He seems to think that it's locked up.

[Co-host 4]

I don't know.

[Co-host 1]

Okay, so that gives. That brings me to the second question. Is there something in there that matters? Because I don't think there is.

[Co-host 4]

No.

[Host]

Well, what is. What is matters? What is your definition of matters?

[Co-host 3]

Right.

[Co-host 1]

Oh.

[Co-host 3]

Like something that could do severe damage.

[Co-host 2]

Black and white disqualifier.

[Host]

Yeah, there we go.

[Co-host 1]

You know, doing something.

[Co-host 2]

No, right.

[Co-host 3]

I don't think so.

[Co-host 1]

I. I don't think so.

[Host]

I mean, I. I think that just knowing that he do, which we all do, but having that, and I don't think it, like, causes his numbers to drop, but I think it keeps them from going back up. I do think that there are some people that. I mean, I do think people care about this. Some. Some don't, because.

[Co-host 3]

Lowers the ceiling.

[Host]

It. But I think it makes it harder, and I think it makes it for him to get back to, what, above 40%, which is still dog, but, like, he's at, like, 38 or something. And I think this makes it harder for Republicans in the midterms next year, because they're going to have to balance. They're gonna have to answer these questions if the files don't come out, which, you know, I. I think there could be some Republicans who just sort of like, forget it. I'm staying home, where we're going to be super energized. But, I mean, does it. Is it going to make him go to jail?

[Co-host 3]

No, no, definitely not. But I think if you have, like, things come out where it's like, all right, here's an email where Trump is saying something where it's clear that he knows what's going on. It doesn't matter what the context is. I think that's a point where, like, people in the middle, especially, like, swing voter independence, probably would get affected by how they look at it and go, like, well, this guy's been lying the whole time saying he didn't know anything. It's a big scam. Here he is emailing somebody, fucking. It's clear as day. He knows. Even if it doesn't imply any kind of guilt or, you know, culpability in the, in the crimes, that's still really bad. So, like, I think that, like, it just depends on gradation of how bad we're talking about.

[Co-host 1]

You know, I think if there ever was anything bad in there, Bonnie got rid of it. It's my opinion.

[Co-host 2]

Right. They did a bunch of that. Right.

[Co-host 1]

It's gonna be a lot of redactions.

[Co-host 3]

Yeah.

[Co-host 2]

And that, that's, that's where I'm thinking is like the people who were pushing this in the first place, the, the far right conspiracy people who, who are pushing like, you know, all the way back to Pizzagate and all that, they will never, they're never going to be satisfied with whatever's released. Like, there's always going to be like, when they said, when she said, oh, there's no list, it's like they all lost their minds, right? I was like, whatever. Like, okay, sure, there probably is a list, but she's lying and there's nothing we're going to do about it. So I think, you know, if the files do come out, then there will be not enough. I think is, like, is kind of my. I'm just assuming there will be not enough for anybody to agree on everything. But what I want to see is, is there enough for the left to develop a real conviction around a midterm argument that we will impeach and convict if we have, you know, if we have the support for it. Like, if you give, if, if you give us the Senate, if you give us the House, and if we have enough people, we will hold a vote to impeach and convict, which would require him to be removed from office in, in the next two years. After that, of course, then it's like, well, then J.D. vance would be president for like, get.

[Co-host 1]

Rid of him too.

[Co-host 2]

Get rid of him too. So then it starts. But if it's, if there is like a smoking gun enough not for the world, but just for the left to rally behind like a single argument. Like, okay, this is compelling enough that we all just have to say impeach and convict. Like, if we, we need to get, we need to win the midterm so we can impeach and convict. That would be like, probably the biggest win for me because no, he's not Bondi's not going to arrest him and like, put him in jail. Right. We already know that's not going to happen, no matter what's in the files.

[Host]

My only problem with that is that there's no chance. If you look at who's running and everything, even if it's a wipeout like we've never seen, Democrats in the Senate would get to maybe 51, 2, maybe 53 with an absolute wipeout. And I don't think there are seven Republicans in the, in the Senate. So then do you spend three or four months going through this exercise?

[Co-host 3]

A year.

[Host]

A year.

[Co-host 2]

It would be a year.

[Host]

And then, and then. Right. Which would then be right in the middle of the presidential election cycle. Or do you just. Which I think even though I want him impeached and thrown out because he should be. Or do you just pass bill after bill that are focused on affordability?

[Co-host 1]

Right.

[Host]

And, and you have hearings in the oversight. Give it to AOC or whoever, drag them in every single week. You know, pick a department. You know, you could have Interior week, you could have Attorney General week or Justice Week and you know, and just dig into what they've been doing while also, you know, bills to take the tariffs down and like to do things to lower costs and, you know, all of these things I think is a much better, I like political plan better. I, I, I want him in peace.

[Co-host 1]

Then we get him once he's gone.

[Host]

Yeah. And then we just go at, then you get your Sally Yates, is your Doug Jones, your whoever, Kamala, to just like, just go through everything and dig in. Because, because the federal employees are going to help them because they are seeing what's going on and it's not like they leave and everything. All the stuff's like missing like people are there good, decent people in the, in civil service who will help uncover that stuff?

[Co-host 3]

I think.

[Co-host 2]

And, and for me, my default, strong, strong default bias. Is that exactly what you just described? If there were something in the files that were so profound that it forced us to refocus the strategy in the second, you know, the second half of his term, that would be, that's like if, if that was in the files, if they do come out and we saw something like, because again, he's not going to jail, but there might be something that is significantly more compelling than what we've seen so far, which obviously we've seen everything, not just the files, but like, everything, everything that he's done. Nothing has moved the needle enough to not to stop him from getting elected. And so like, here we Are. So it needs to be significantly worse than the Access Hollywood tape, significantly worse than walking in on girls, underage girls changing, you know, at the pageants. Like, it has to be a true game changer. And I don't think that.

[Host]

I'm not sure that it has to be clear evidence that he committed sexual assault of some sort. Right. Or paid paid police to go away or whatever. Right. There has to be some like thing. Yeah, yeah.

[Co-host 4]

When it comes to the issue of impeachment, I think the play is to impeach fucking everybody, right? Who's. Who's eligible to be impeached? The president, vice president, federal judges, secretaries.

[Host]

So we have got.

[Co-host 4]

The, the dni, Tulsi Gabbard, who has been. We. We talked to a Senate candidate who had the government retaliate against him for his political speech. Right. That, that is, I think, an impeachable offense. We have had Pam Bondi interfering with investigations and, you know, basically protecting Trump, acting as his personal attorney. Let's impeach her. We've had Pete Hegseth summarily executing random fucking people in the Caribbean, right? Like, these are all impeachable offenses. We should not normalize this shit and just be like, do investigations. Like on January 1, when the new Congress is sworn in, they should fucking file articles of impeachment against every one of these motherfuckers.

[Host]

I'm fine with that because, I mean, I don't know if. I mean, I think most people know, but, like, we are literally, like, finding fishing boats in the Caribbean and obliterating them. I have not seen any evidence to suggest that they were drug runners, which is the argument, or smugglers or whatever, you know, and a lot of experts have kind of looked at where they've done some of this, and they were like, this doesn't make sense. You know, it's hard to.

[Co-host 4]

A small boat off the coast of Venezuela cannot make it to Florida, right?

[Host]

No, it's. It looks close on a map. It's not really. Yeah, you're in high seas, right? That's open ocean. And, you know, these aren't. These aren't like 50 foot, you know, boats. These are, you know, 20ft, whatever, which is like kind of what a lot of people put on. On a lake and stuff. Like, you know, we're just doing it and everyone's kind of like. I mean, you said Pam Bondi said there was no Epstein list. That's a lie. We know that. That is a lie. And what else is she covering up? How did they do. How did they do the firings of the Civil Rights Division. Like, how did they. Like all of these things. I agree. And I think Oversight is going to be the most important committee in the new. In the new term because they are going to have to go into all of this stuff. And I think you're right. I think we do that. And, you know, look, if in all along the way we find Trump ordered them to do illegal things, then that's great, too. Well, not great for the country, but great for getting him because he does ask people to do illegal. We've seen it and we've even heard it.

[Co-host 2]

Right.

[Host]

In Georgia. Find me. What is it, 11,800 and whatever votes or 12,000 votes? Yeah, like, he admitted to interfering in the election. So it's going to have to be good. Like, good. But, like, I think a constant drone of, like, stupid shit and illegal shit that he's done over and over again, like, is going to set up the Democrats really, really well in the presidential. But they have to do it and they have to be strong about it.

[Co-host 4]

I mean, if they want to. If they want bad stuff to stop happening, they have to throw sand in the gears. And the way to throw sand in the gears is not attack the top of the pyramid. It's to attack everybody, every single layer. It's to go after and hold accountable absolutely everybody in a position of authority who has done something that is so clearly and blatantly illegal that the summary executions in the Caribbean, like, that's a slam dunk.

[Co-host 3]

It's true.

[Co-host 1]

You can't just bomb people.

[Co-host 2]

That's not how.

[Co-host 1]

That's not how this works.

[Co-host 4]

I mean, unfortunately, Democrats. I know what the Democrats would do if Chuck Schumer were in this room. He would say, oh, well, you know, worry about the precedent. They're going to do that to a Democratic administration. Like, because right now the current Democratic Party leaders don't realize we're playing a different fucking game. Precedent doesn't matter. We are not going to. We're not playing a game where they escalate and we escalate and they escalate and we escalate. We're playing a game where they're fucking escalating no matter what. And we need to either match it or. Or just say, fuck it, we're giving up.

[Co-host 3]

I mean, the goal has to be resetting the norms. Like, success or failure of these impeachments is irrelevant. It's like, that's the whole point, is that we can't sit back and let the norm become worse and worse. And worse and worse. And the only way to do that is to do exactly what you're talking about. Just throwing sand in the gears. I think that's really smart. I just think like we just have to put ourselves in a position where we're, we have the messaging ready where when it doesn't work out, it doesn't matter. Like, I think that's been the problem. A lot of the time people look at like Democrats are investigating this and nothing happens. We have to build a structure where it's like the point isn't success. The point is to slow them down. Like we have to make that clear. I don't think we have in the past. So like as long as the messaging matches and it's like, oh look, the Democrats failed again like that. We can't end up there. We have to end up in. No, no, we're not. We're actually trying to get Donald Trump impeached. We're trying to slow him the fuck down because if we don't, we don't know where we end up, you know.

[Co-host 1]

Yeah.

[Co-host 4]

And we're trying to impose massive legal bills.

[Co-host 2]

Right.

[Co-host 4]

We're trying to tie them up at the courts so they, he doesn't say those silly to be present in front.

[Co-host 1]

Of trying to get the fucking Supreme Court to toss out what he owes to Eugene Carroll. Which is not how that works.

[Host]

I don't think they're going to. I think, I don't think so either.

[Co-host 1]

Because that's not how it fudgeing works.

[Co-host 3]

Somehow they have barriers. Even with, you know, with the gay marriage thing they threw out. It's like, all right, at least they're not to hear is some crazy.

[Co-host 4]

That's good.

[Host]

Yeah, I, I think, I think it's a two pronged thing over the next couple years.

[Co-host 4]

Right.

[Host]

So we, so we went in the House at least. You know, I think the Senate is a harder thing, but judging from last Tuesday, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that we could eek it out at a 51ish area. But it, but these guys, it's a tandem thing, right. So like the House oversight and the other committees need to be leading these investigations, which then gives the Democratic presidential candidates things to run on and things to show how we are going to change the government moving forward. Like there has to be and I haven't heard it yet, there has to be some narrative from whoever ends up being the candidate about how things are going to be different and better moving forward. What is the vision for the The United States government moving forward because it has been wrecked and we're not going back to what we had. That like, just like staffing back up and keeping everything the same is a recipe for disaster. Yeah, they need to, they need to propose. And I think they're like, I think there are some very radical things. I think it's time to bring back up statehood for D.C. and Puerto Rico and any of the outlying territories. I think it's time to talk about a more universal style of health care, whether it's a public option or what. I think there's a lot of the electoral college, I think, I mean, I think starting that train though, that's a constitutional amendment. So that's a whole other thing. But I agree. I think we, I think we have to be bold because right now we are a minority, majority led country where you're right, Republicans are not, it's not, this is not a 50, 50 country. Like, they're, they are in the minority and, and they have been operating like that. They have a mandate of like 70, 80% and they don't. But we have to do those things. I think, like, I think it's absurd that we have territories in this country that cannot, they are, they are taxed and they have no representation because, I'm sorry, a delegate that doesn't vote is not representation. That is complete horseshit. And they also don't get two senators either. But if Wyoming, that has what, 600,000 people living in it, gets two fucking senators, why doesn't Guam, Why doesn't Puerto Rico. Now, Puerto Rico should determine their own. Like, they should be given a vote and they can choose. All of them should choose. DC Is just as big as Wyoming and pays more taxes.

[Co-host 1]

So Wyoming's not worried.

[Co-host 3]

I think we have to prioritize it. Like, I agree with half of that. I agree that, I agree with all of your reasons to forgiving them statehood. I don't think that's where we should focus. We need to focus on something that is directly correlated to people and the benefit. And the clear correlation to me is healthcare. Like, we need to attack universal healthcare. But we have to change the fucking messaging. We can't come in and go, hey, it's a human right. Shut the fuck up. It's the biggest corporate tax break in American history. It is the biggest investment in the economy in American history. That's the message. Because essentially corporations are going to have to stop spending so much money on fucking health care plans for people and they can reinvest that into the economy. It is a gigantic economic benefit to the, to the upper 1% and to corporations and to everybody in the country. It is a win, win, win. We have to sell it like that. We can't just be like, oh, it's for the greater good and it should be free. Shut up.

[Co-host 2]

Everyone deserves, everyone deserves health care. I'm like, okay, Tim, disagree with Zach.

[Co-host 4]

Just a little bit. I don't think we need to concentrate on anything. I think the Project 2025 and Donald Trump have taught us one thing in this year, and that is that you don't need the political capital. You just need to fucking do it. You just need to ram it through and make it really fucking hard to undo. I mean, it's much easier to burn a house down to, than to build one. Right? But I think we can do health care. We can do D.C. statehood. We have to, we have to go on offense in a way that makes it impossible for them to pick any one thing to be unified against. That's what they've been doing to us this year. It's kind of a brilliant strategy and we should just do the same thing.

[Host]

I think.

[Co-host 3]

Sorry, go ahead, Tim.

[Host]

No, I was just gonna say I actually agree with both of you. I do think that. I do think health care and affordability things need to be front and center because that's what everybody is talking about. And look, we sucked at it because partly we were just in power when inflation was high. Right. Like it's just the nature of the beast. And yes, that the, you know, the Biden stuff that he put forward did raise inflation a little bit, but people are going to lose their homes. So, like, we made a decision. Right, Right. But I think moving forward, I do think, you know, like some sort of universal or public option or whatever needs to be front and center. But I think you're right, Chris. We could still say the other things, but I think the message over and over again is, is healthcare affordability. And Zach, I think you're right because like, when I started my small digital marketing business, the only reason I could do that was because my wife had healthcare.

[Co-host 3]

Right.

[Host]

I couldn't have done it. And then I hired, you know, I had four or five people on payroll at a certain point. Those people, those jobs would not have existed if my wife didn't have health care. So I agree, I think that this is both. I do think that health care is a human right, but I agree leading with that kind of people that does over have to repay.

[Co-host 1]

It is a.

[Host]

But it is a massive investment like that would be the biggest economic driver for small business that we have ever done, ever.

[Co-host 3]

It wouldn't even be close. And like, we, we just have to look at everything that we've, that we're selling that is good for like. Like, there's a reason Bernie Sanders was so successful with the people who voted for Trump. It's because he was packaging this shit exactly the way they wanted it. Where it's just like, you're getting fucked. I'm going to unfuck it. Like, it's not, it wasn't. I mean, like he did to the human rights shit. But, like the front and center message from Sanders was, I'm going to stop the system from destroying you. And everybody went, ooh, I love that shit. We just need to make sure we repackage this into, like, this is not democratic socialism or socialism. This is an economic benefit. This is good for fucking regular people. We're going to take the system and rewire it to make sure that you're in good shape. That is the way to package all this shit. I agree with Chris. Like, we can do all this shit at the same time. We should just jam it down their throat. But we have to have like a lead actor in this. And it's got to be something that everybody goes, ooh, I love that. That's how we. Because the working class is our biggest problem. We lost them. Every thinks we're fucking elitists and we don't give a shit about the working class. Our main goal with all the shit we package has to be to dispel that 100%.

[Co-host 2]

Well, I was going to say I 100% agree with the whole thing. And I think this is all one conversation. And, and that's in that we, we have to stop fudgeing. Explaining everything.

[Co-host 3]

Yes.

[Co-host 2]

Because that's like, when you're explaining, you're losing it. Just, it's like the oldest rule in the book. Don't fucking explain anything. Look at how he won people. He won people by saying, I alone can fix it. I have the best people. I'm going to do this because it's what I think needs to happen. And, and I'm going to do it because I can, because I'm the best person at this. And I'm going to do it because it's going to make all your prices lower and we're going to end all the wars. Like he just said, the outcome, it's headline people wanted. Right? He said the benefit, not explain the fucking nerd math. And I'm like, if we Stop trying to do that. Like people won't understand it because so much of this stuff is so complicated. But it also pulls you off of the talking point, off the message, which is because it's right. We have to do. We need universal health care because it's the best thing for us. Don't explain it anymore and then just go fucking do it. And then that's when you, then when you cram it down their throat. And I mean like politically speaking, cram it down the right throat. America wants it. Like America wants all the things that Democrats are saying that they are going to deliver. We just don't know how to actually like talk them through the process because we get way into the weeds and then it sounds like we don't know what we're doing.

[Co-host 3]

Yep, 100.

[Host]

Well, I also think that now that there are going to be so many hospitals that are closing as I think we, I think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of at least 300 nationally that they're talking about closing. So that's mostly rural, so mostly in red areas. But that's one obviously like. And is that you're gonna have to drive further for care in some of these places. But also all of those jobs right now I'm not talking about the doctors because the doctors probably will be fine. Nurses or nurses assistants, the janitors in those places, the people that run the, like there's always like a cafeteria. All of these jobs are going to disappear. But like with universal of some sort of universal health care, which means everybody will have the ability to go and get care. Like a lot of those places may just reopen because of demand. And that, that is a reversal of a lot of job losses. And those are, most of those are good jobs, especially in those areas. So I agree. I think that, I think that you focus it on the small business thing and you also tell people that you know that that amount that comes out of your paycheck every two weeks isn't going to come out anymore.

[Co-host 3]

Right. I mean it'll go up in tax some other ways.

[Host]

But like, yeah, I did, I did.

[Co-host 3]

The math on it. I haven't made the video, but I've been building a whole video about how we repackage this and what the actual numbers are. The average person would save $7,000 a year with this. Like, that's insane. That's $7,000 a year in health care costs.

[Host]

Like it.

[Co-host 3]

I mean, what's.

[Host]

What, sorry, what is the average family income in the US now? Is it like 50?

[Co-host 2]

Oh, it's 80 household income.

[Co-host 3]

Household income, yeah.

[Host]

Not an individual household is 80, but that's even 80. Like that's 10%.

[Co-host 3]

It's a huge amount.

[Host]

Right? It's a big amount.

[Co-host 3]

Right.

[Co-host 2]

It's the peace of mind and the job mobility. You can start your own business. Like the, the freedom that people would, would, would enjoy and the, the, the benefit to self employed people, the benefit to small businesses that are looking to scale up, that's a major, major roadblock right now is when can I pay $800 per employee per month so that I can offer health insurance to my workers. Like that is the average cost to employers if you just buy a run of the mill plan. And they wouldn't have to do that anymore. Like there's just an enormous amount of, of growth that we could unlock if we just took away that barrier.

[Co-host 4]

Let me tell you. I mean as the, as the person in this room who is the beneficiary of socialized medicine, it's great. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Like I, I can move and I don't have to worry about like is there going to be a doctor where I like, I'm not moving out into the boonies. Right. I, I can, I used to move twice a year between New York and D.C. and like just walking into a hospital that already has all of my data and like knowing the team that I go and see, like I wish that more people had that. I never have to worry about like what my prescriptions are going to cost ever. They just get fucking mailed to me and, and there's, there's so much stress that I, I don't have in my life because the VA takes care of it all and I wish that every American had that right.

[Co-host 3]

So I'll just tell you from, I'm going to play both sides of it here because this is the industry I came from. There will be dramatic challenges that we haven't touched on in this that like are going to make this 50 times harder than people think because essentially you're going to have to renegotiate every single rate for everything. The US Government's got to negotiate with every single private practice to every single public hospital. That is a years long process. Insurance companies are going to fucking go belly up, causing hundreds of thousands of jobs to go away. It's going to restructure how we do everything with pharmaceutical companies and development. So like there is a cascade effect of negativity as well. It's not as simple as like hey, snap your fingers and we have universal healthcare. This process should take five to 10 years. Like, if we do it right, so.

[Co-host 2]

Then do it right.

[Co-host 3]

Right. So, like, it's not to say, like, I don't want people to sit here and go, why aren't we doing this? It seems so easy. It's very difficult to undo the horrible system we're currently in. Not impossible, but I think we have to. Like, I don't think our messaging should be this, but, like, people should know. Like, even if we do win in 28 and we do institute this, it won't be like, hey, in 29, bam, everybody's got universal coverage. It will never be that way, unfortunately.

[Host]

No, sorry. I think that. Yeah, I mean, I think let's. Let's keep that part in the.

[Co-host 3]

Like, keep it up.

[Co-host 1]

That part does not go.

[Co-host 3]

That part doesn't go in the tweet.

[Co-host 1]

We don't put that in the tweet.

[Co-host 3]

Yeah, yeah.

[Co-host 2]

You're already explaining too much. Don't explain that.

[Co-host 3]

I'm not trying to sell it. I'm just trying to temper the expectation.

[Co-host 4]

Well, I think people will be distracted, affected by global warming, by, like, the real AI revolution that, that is coming that is going to disrupt every industry. So, you know, if, if a few hundred thousand jobs are lost. Not saying that's not a problem. I'm just saying people's minds are going to be really busy. And whether it's because of everyone getting free health care or some other, or some, like, disaster, like, I don't, I don't think people are going to notice. Like, it sounds bad on its own, but in the future, that we are definitely going to deal with. Yeah, like, I, I think the discomfort's relatively small.

[Co-host 3]

The biggest challenge, honestly, is going to be getting doctors. Like, we need to incentive. We need programs that incentivize and help people go to medical school for free. Like, that's the end. To help people become nurses. Because the truth is, doctors salaries are going to fucking plummet in a system like this, and that is going to be a huge. Like, why would you go to medical school for half a million dollars if you can't make it back in three or three years like you can now? We need to pay for medical school. Like, we need a huge program. Like, it's. We just need to be able to offset all these problems because there's a ton of problems and we can. It's not. I'm not saying you can't do it. I used to be one of the people who was like, well, maybe we shouldn't do this because it's so hard, but we can, it's just like a thousand things have to happen.

[Co-host 2]

Do hard, have to do it. You just have to do it carefully. And that's, that's, that's the big difference between Trump and like the best case scenario of doing all of the things that he says he wants to do, like tariffs can actually be part of an effective trade strategy. Like a lot of the things that, that he says he wants and the tactics he employs are not inherently bad or terrible or destructive. It's just when you say we're going to do it and we're going to do it in three days and it's going to be 50%, you know, increase in tariffs. It's like, dude, you, we don't make shit here anymore to replace that. Like you can't backfill the Chinese shit in the market. Right, in three days because we don't even have the factories. Like, but if you did it over two years, well, that'll make right, that'll make up for the $32,000 increase in health insurance premiums for everybody.

[Co-host 1]

Go down to your mailbox and wait. Good Christ.

[Host]

Well, they said they were gonna get a five thousand dollar doge check and now it's a two thousand dollar.

[Co-host 1]

We're all getting seven grand on February 30th.

[Host]

Well, I think, I think this is a good time to, to mention as we've, you know, we're kind of getting close to time. We're actually going to be doing a special episode this week which I think I can announce now. And I am very happy because I, I haven't come up with a good name for this, but our next two episodes are going to be with Graham Platner, the Senate candidate from Maine. We're going to record with him tomorrow. Or actually it is today when you're listening because this is Wednesday. And then on Monday we are going to be recording with Governor Janet Mills. So we have a mainsplosion, which I'm very happy about. Is that the right term? Main solution?

[Co-host 2]

It's a, it's a mainathon.

[Co-host 3]

Mainathon.

[Co-host 2]

That's okay.

[Co-host 3]

The way.

[Host]

The way podcasts should be instead of the way life should be. Is that the way. Is that what we should call it? But find out. Podcast mainathon, Main edition. Well, you're gonna get some accents guys over the next two because both of them have, have very well her. I actually think Governor Bill's accent is. It's a Luke. Thank you very much. Don't, don't try. Don't try. You won't get it.

[Co-host 2]

Wow.

[Host]

It's not working.

[Co-host 1]

A lot of books and they never pronounce it that way.

[Host]

The books don't pronounce it that way.

[Co-host 1]

The audiobooks don't. They always do it.

[Host]

Yeah. You think those people are from Maine that they are reading?

[Co-host 2]

If.

[Co-host 1]

I know.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-host 1]

I don't believe there are real people that are from Maine.

[Co-host 2]

I don't think Maine is real.

[Host]

Yeah, actually guys, I'm actually from Canada.

[Co-host 1]

Canada.

[Host]

Yeah. I'm just Canada. We, we just.

[Co-host 3]

Southern Canada.

[Host]

Canada Light. There are Canada's.

[Co-host 2]

Florida. Right.

[Host]

There are some people in certain parts of Maine that do that. French Canadian. French Canadian is their main language actually. So we do have some, some of that, but yes.

[Co-host 2]

Communists. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. So we're gonna have both of them on. So if you want to submit some questions to us, we'll see if we can get to them. But we're really excited about it. The other thing is that we are moving our lives. We listen to you all and I think the best time is actually going to be Wednesday nights at 8:30pm Eastern Time. So by the time you hear this one, we will have already done it, but we'll be doing it on YouTube so you can go watch it after the fact. So you know, if you have not subscribed to our YouTube channel, you should do that at, at Findout Podcast and you can join us in. You know, we usually just bullshit for like what, an hour, hour and a half depending on how it's going. And we want you all to come along with us. So very excited for that. And I think that is it for us, guys. I mean, except for one. One final thing that we have to do to wrap up every show. Do we know what it is?

[Co-host 4]

Is no one wearing any merch today? I am. We got, we got a bunch of reveals. So for people who are only getting this on the audio, we just saw Zach, Rich and Tim all pull open their button down shirts. So if, if you are audio only, this, this is the episode that you're going to have to go and do the YouTube thing because man, that was a sight.

[Host]

Yeah, well, we didn't do it. I mean this was the, the, the G version when, when Governor Newsom did it, he didn't have a shirt on underneath. He was like showing a little skin which was.

[Co-host 4]

Did you guys coordinate ahead of time? Was that a plan?

[Host]

No, no, it's.

[Co-host 4]

That seemed like a planned.

[Host]

Dad, I swear, I swear it was not. I did tell them that we were going to give him shit about Fortnight, but I did not tell them what the question was.

[Co-host 4]

Oh, no, I'm talking about you three. I. I was wondering if you had a bad joke that you would like, secretly squirreled away and all, said you were gonna do the. The big reveal.

[Co-host 2]

Let's go with that. I like.

[Host]

Yeah, sure. Yeah, we coordinated that.

[Co-host 2]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yep, yep, yep. Well, if you would like to purchase some of this merchandise, you can go to findout podcast.com. you can also support us with a membership both on at, like, right now, both on YouTube and Substack. We'll be rolling out some more of that, actually, I think next week, possibly with some cool stuff that we are doing and it helps us keep the lights on and helps us do more shows. We've got some shows in development that we'll be excited to share with you down the road. We're not quite there yet, but all of that money goes right back into the show, so. So that we can reach more people and get more men to move to the left so that we don't have this nightmare anymore. So with that, we are at one hour, so I think we're gonna wrap it up here. But just remember that you're listening to this on two. On Thursday, Friday, we will be releasing our Grand Platner episode. So that will be a bit new for you all. I don't think we've ever done three in a week before, so just be ready for that when it comes. And otherwise, happy Epstein release day and sort of kind of Epstein drip day. And we'll be back.

[Co-host 4]

No.

[Host]

That was bad. That was bad. Okay, good time to lie to rap. We'll see you tomorrow, folks.