Chris (2:58)

That's true.

Tim (2:58)

But.

Zach (2:59)

But this has got to be, like, the highlight of. Of Putin's year, like, getting to walk in to his. His former adversary's office and. And, you know, on. On. On American soil and just getting everything he wants it. Like, his predecessors couldn't have dreamed of this being possible.

Chris (3:25)

Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, the thing about it, though, is, like, despite all the spectacle, it kind of means, Jack, because nothing is going to happen without Ukraine, like, you know, actually being willing to make a deal that makes sense for them like that. I don't like the spectacle element because, like, if you just go back, I don't know, five years, even. Even less. Even the Republicans hated Putin. Everybody hated Putin because he's the fucking leader of Russia. Right. It's like, it's. It's not a difficult thing. So now it's like, you know, essentially platforming this guy and giving him all this, you know, hey, you come to the table first. Like, why are we doing this? Shouldn't they be at the table at the same time? Like, shouldn't we be doing what you did Friday and what you're doing today, Monday? We're shooting this simultaneously, you know, because we've got two sides here. It's. Yeah, it's. I mean, Trump just doesn't understand. Trump doesn't understand a fundamental thing here is that Ukraine is never going to give up. They're never going to cede some shit deal just to end this conflict. They're never going to do it. So until he factors that into his negotiation, his little, like, you know, peace deal and dream of a Nobel Peace Prize, it ain't going to fucking happen.

Tim (4:31)

Well, my understanding is that the. The deal that Putin said he would accept actually gives them more land that they control in Ukraine now.

Chris (4:38)

Yeah.

Tim (4:39)

So they would have to give up even more than what the Russians have gained. But also, I. You know, Zach, you're exactly right. Like, they are not going to allow this, because what kind of message does that send? That you can invade and everything's fine and you'll get what you want? And, you know, I think that Trump was saying this today about Zelensky. He's like, they're going to have to give up something. Well, we're the only, we are the only Western country that is actually suggesting that at the moment. And it's pretty telling that there are, I believe, meeting right now in the White House. But Zelensky brought seven world leaders with him, including the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. I think Macron must be with him from France. Germany is here. Like all of these people who understand the Russian threat and it's more important to them because some of those countries either border Russia or are not very far away. Yeah, it's, they absolutely do not want this because this is part of Vladimir Putin's desire to recreate the ussr, which if you looked at his foreign minister, what's his name, Lavrov or whatever his name is, was literally wearing a sweatshirt in Alaska that in Cyrillic, the Russian language said ussr. Like the subtle, they aren't Russians. They're not subtle, but like, this is what they want. So, like if they get a little bit of Ukraine, then they can get a little bit of Georgia, maybe we'll slip off a little bit of Poland. Like they want to push their, their boundaries out as far as they possibly can.

Chris (6:09)

There's a nuance to this though. Like, and it's important because, like, I don't think it's so terrible if they end up making a deal where they lose that land because frankly, that land is relatively valueless to them. It's very, you know, it's rural. It's also very Russian. Like a lot of the people there want to be a part of Russia. What has to happen here are concrete guarantees. And Ukraine being able to be on a path to join NATO. That's the truth. Like Ukraine needs a long term path to sovereignty that can't be broken because some handshake deal was broken, because that's already happened to them multiple times. That's going to be the sticking point here. I think Ukraine is going to be more than happy to part with a lot of this land because they could give a fuck. They want to make sure that this will never happen again. Russia cannot invade again without severe consequences. And the only way to do that is to say you can be on a path to join NATO. And in the short term, the US and NATO will be providing cover for you. An actual border where you cannot be reinvaded without starting a world incident. That's the only way it's going to end. There is no other way.

Tim (7:08)

Well, I think, I think what's really funny is that from all accounts, what we've heard is what Chris said exactly is like Putin comes in and Tells him that the Democrats cheated. He won 2020. Oh, it's so great to be wel. Part of you. Blah, blah, blah. Like this five minute like I love you session followed by and we want all the land and NATO can't be on the table and da da da buy, take the photo shake, we're gone. And that was it. That was it. That's why I don't think you saw any other things. And then, you know, you also. I thought the funniest part of the whole thing was when they were standing on tarmac and a reporter literally said to Vladimir Putin, when are you going to stop killing civilians? And he went like this. He put his hand to his ear and then he just walked off. Like he clearly heard. And because he speaks English, like I don't know if people. He speaks English. So yeah, I think it was just a cluster. Which leads us into the, the next part which is that, you know, now Donald Trump is been railing because let's be honest, like even Fox News was panning this summit. Like they were like, it sounds like we didn't get any. It sounds like it went very poorly.

Chris (8:07)

Yeah, no shit.

Tim (8:07)

Didn't go very well. And if Fox is saying that. So then this weekend our dear leader, I guess started rail. Guess, guess what? He started to go on to again fake elections. And he is like railing against mail in mail in voting, which he has participated in mail in balloting several times. And it seemed fine for him, but apparently nobody else. And he wants the ability to seize voting machines. And he said in 2020 I tried to get them and they stopped me, even though there is no evidence, let me repeat that, no evidence of any wrongdoing. And in fact, Dominion, which runs those machines, have settled two defamation lawsuits, one of which happened today. The first one was Fox News two years ago, which was for $787 million, three quarters of a billion dollars. And then today it was with Fox. And then today it was announced that Newsmax has agreed to pay $67 million to Dominion for lying about 2020. And so he has. Which kind of stepped on his announcement of wanting to end mail in voting and, and the being able to, to seize voting machines and including. And then today he wrote an EO or he put out an EO banning fail mail in voting. Which. The reason why we want to talk about this is because it is completely meritless. He has no like legal authority to do that. Elections are in the states. So basically just ignore it and let the courts fight this out because.

Luke (9:45)

They'Re.

Chris (9:45)

Not Yeah, I mean, it's complete bullshit. Like, not this. Like, I think the thing, the headline for me in this, for anybody listening, is this will not be an actual thing. It won't stand. Like, it's just a stupid PR stunt that he's doing to further push this narrative that 2020 was stolen and all that crap. It's all bullshit. And there's no way this will ever actually play out in the long term.

Zach (10:07)

I, I wouldn't be so confident that this Supreme Court is not going to like just fold on something that we feel like is settled law. I, Yes, I, you know, I, I think recent history tells us that, that we should expect surprises. But what he's doing with these voting machines things, the voting machines and talking about elections now is directly related to what's happening, happening in Washington D.C. right now with National Guard getting pulled out of red states and brought to DC and ICE becoming more ever present. All of these things have to do with Trump normalizing the use of force, having uniformed people he considers loyal, at least in blue cities. So everything, all of these things that we're talking about are voter intimidation. If, if he convinces even a few million people out of this entire country that mail in voting is, is illegitimate, who may not vote for him, that could be enough to swing an election. So I think we need to look at all of these things in that context through that lens, I think.

Luke (11:27)

Hey, guys, how's it going?

Chris (11:28)

What's up?

Luke (11:29)

Any, any, any stupid happened this morning that I missed? I catch everything. So. No. The answer is no. I mean, you got to remember, he's been, he's been whining about mail in voting since forever because he doesn't understand how things happen in the world. And so when he woke up the day after the 2020 election and realized that he actually lost because he sucks. And everybody who didn' stayed home and mailed in a ballot, he was absolutely flabbergasted. And in the past five years hasn't figured out how that could have been a thing that was possible. And it's been explained and yet then come forward to 2024. He actually talked out of both sides of his mouth. I know this is going to surprise you guys, but he said mail in voting is the devil. It's the end of everything. It's, it's the, it's going to destroy America. Also go and mail in a ballot for Donald Trump. And because of that, they came within a couple of points on mail in voting Trump. He didn't underperform Harris that much. On mail in voting. And if you take out like, I think it's, it's, I think Washington has just mail in ballots for everybody all of the time for every election.

Chris (12:49)

Yeah.

Luke (12:50)

If you take out that the blue votes that come from safe blue states, I wouldn't be surprised if maybe they broke even or even outperformed among mail in ballots in swing states. So, like, he's not coming after Democratic voters. Like, I'm still going to go vote in a building even if they, even if he convinces my secretary of state to, you know, get rid of mail in ballots.

Tim (13:13)

Well, the traditionally before COVID mail in ballots were mostly reserved for elderly voters generally tend to, to vote for Republicans. So this is, it's not very clear that this is actually going to help him very much. First of all, it's not going to happen. I mean, there could be some red states that get rid of mail and voting. I, I suppose, but I think in most places, like, yeah, Washington state, I think is exclusively mail in balloting. California has a very robust mail in which we, I think we already know what Gavin Newsom's going to say to Donald Trump about this CEO, you know, but I'm waiting for the all caps tweet, but, you know, I. Which we'll talk about in a second. Yeah, but it's just grievance. Right. He lost mail in ballots in 2020, so, and then he had a shitty meeting with Vladimir Putin and he's like, what can I do? He pulls out one of his greatest hits, Voting is corrupt. Even though somehow with mail in balloting, Donald Trump managed to win twice. So our ability to rig elections is. We're pretty bad at it. Excellent.

Luke (14:16)

And, and we, we were one out of, we were one out of three on presidential elections and we didn't bother to rig the ballots for all of the down ballot races. And, and that we very much, you know, in hindsight, wish we had won.

Tim (14:34)

I mean, it's just nonsense. And it's just, he's trying to pivot and he's trying to get his base off of this. And obviously Epstein is still out there too. I mean, it's just very obvious, but it does scare people. And Chris is right. Like, all of this is meant to make people think that their votes don't count. So they don't vote. That's it.

Luke (14:50)

No, I mean, it's, we know that he just wakes up and reacts to things, but, like, it's still surprising every time because you know that Putin told him a bunch of shit. Like, I mean, he's he's, he's, he's so fucking stupid. He just went to Fox News and said, I talked to Putin about voting, about elections and election integrity. Everybody's like, don't fucking say that. They're like, kicking him on this under the table. And in. Putin tells him, yeah, the 2020 election was stolen. Yeah, I wouldn't have invaded Ukraine. Like, by the way, what the fuck does that have to do with anything? I wouldn't have invaded Ukraine had you been president. He tells him that. He's just, he's just telling him whatever dumb shit he wants to hear because he's just manipulating the fucking guy who's ruining the country. And Putin very much wants us to be ruined so that he can then be relevant again. Because, remember, he's a former KGB spy and he wants the Soviet Union to be a real thing again. Ronald Reagan, like, literally just ignited into a burst of flames in his grave somewhere. And so then he comes out, you know, two days later, like, he doesn't even bury the lead. He comes out two days later. Putin said that the election was stolen. He blamed mail in ballots. That helps me. Mail in ballots are stupid. I'm going to ban them. I guarantee. There was no, like, he didn't consult with anybody on this. He didn't read a thing like, can I do it? It's just like, it's that train of that, what do you call it? The train of consciousness, A stream of consciousness. Like. Yeah, that is his existence. We're seeing another example of it. It'll be, it'll be dead inside two weeks, if I had to guess.

Tim (16:20)

Also, how does Vladimir. I mean, this is so stupid. Even talk about. How does he know that the election was rigged? Now I understand.

Luke (16:28)

Because he was in every voting machine, right? That's what they're, they're the ones saying that.

Tim (16:35)

Yeah, it's crazy. Well, he also wants that out there because, you know, they want to say that every. The Russia was a hoax from the beginning, which it wasn't. Right. And there's, it's all part of the big play to, to convince mega World that, you know, the Democrats are evil and eating babies and faking and like, you know, and, you know, swinging elections, except two of the three that Donald Trump was in. You know, but the crazy thing is people believe this shit. That's the thing is, like, they're going to believe it and they're going to, you know, it's just. Anyways, so a bit of a pivot here from this. There is somebody that has been Taking a page out of Donald Trump's playbook recently to great success. And wouldn't you know it, it's California Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom.

Chris (17:20)

My guy who in the last few.

Tim (17:22)

Days has gone from not a pariah, but just sort of like. Well, he did a silly podcast with some like, right wingers to literally people making memes of him. I saw one today of him shirtless with a six pack and a.

Luke (17:37)

The memes are so good.

Tim (17:38)

The USA Speedo.

Luke (17:40)

Yeah, really? Oh, God.

Tim (17:45)

And look like. So the big news is that he has announced this ballot initiative in California that is going to ask the people to temporarily eliminate or pause the independent gerrymandering commission so that they can gerrymander California and take five seats from Republicans like Republicans are planning to do in Texas. And not only is he doing that, but he's also at the same time launched a full scale Trumpish style media blitz against.

Luke (18:18)

Dude, his tweets are so fucking good. They're unhinged. All caps, like low, everyone's low IQ scumbags. It's just great.

Chris (18:27)

This Trump style shit, man. I love it.

Luke (18:30)

And then, and then, then Fox is like, this is below the governor of the of California. You're like, you, you tweet, you writing that with a straight face, man.

Chris (18:40)

Like, insane, dude, I love it. It's so good. Like, it's the best strategy ever. Like, you literally, he's like, he pretty much hired Donald Trump's people to write these things for him. It's, it's a one to one dude. And I, I just, I love it. Like anybody right now who's on Gavin Newsoms to shut the up, this dude is killing it right now. He's literally showing everybody how you do this. This is how you do it.

Tim (19:02)

I mean, this is. And I did a video on it this weekend, but like I said, I think I titled it a message to the 3,000 Democrats that are going to run for President. It's like, do you see what Gavin Newsom is doing? You can do that too and do it. Yeah, People want a fighter. Yep. Like, this is right. And like Gavin is, does not have a sterling progressive, no agenda. He's, you know, he's done some things with homelessness and he said some things about the trans community that they really don't like. So he's not this like AOC leftist person. But my God, the reaction to people online from somebody finally standing up and basically saying, I'm going to punch back. Which is like the first time in the 10 years that Trump's been running for president. Like, this is a signal of what people want.

Chris (19:49)

Yeah, you can win.

Zach (19:50)

So I think we should give credit where credit's due. The social media director behind Newsom is Latina named Camille Zapata. She. She is the one who's doing the Trump style tweets. She's the one who's successfully trolling the entire maga movement. I mean, I don't spend a lot of time on Twitter or X, except for, like, my work and.

Tim (20:15)

Or when you want to feel bad about yourself. They.

Zach (20:17)

Yeah, like Fox News, the entire maga movement, like, doesn't get it that they're being trolled.

Luke (20:24)

They.

Zach (20:24)

They do not understand that they are being trolled. And it is the funniest thing in the world after. After 10 years, if not more of, you know, the left Democrats not understanding how to play this game. One woman came in and was like, all right, let me fucking show you guys how it's done. And I think the Democrats who are running Chuck Schumer can't do this. To be clear. Like, he'll never. That's never going to work. Won't be president who actually have that personality, like, should. Should go ahead and hire digital directors just like her.

Chris (20:59)

All right, so, Luke, I have a question for you. I know you don't like Gavin Newsom, but does this approach he's taking at all, A, change your attitude towards him and B, would it get you on a path to voting for him one day?

Unknown Guest (21:13)

I mean, it's not like I wouldn't vote for him. Like, I am not a fucking. I'm not gonna vote for somebody I don't like.

Luke (21:19)

That's.

Chris (21:19)

No, I mean, like, maybe like in a primary. Like, in a primary.

Unknown Guest (21:22)

In a primary. Be real to, like, he's.

Chris (21:24)

That's what I'm saying.

Unknown Guest (21:25)

He's one. Like, he is real quick to throw trans people under the bus and homeless people under the bus. And I think he's very performative. I think. I mean, I think you can't be mad that he's fighting, but I don't think the fight comes from a purely.

Chris (21:39)

Noble place.

Unknown Guest (21:40)

Yeah, yeah, it's not. It's not noble.

Chris (21:42)

No.

Unknown Guest (21:43)

He's in it because it. It puts him on a name. It puts his name out there for 100. Oh, he's that guy that stood up to Trump. And, like, I'm not against that, but he's got a history. And, like, if he's not willing to change that, then, yeah, I'm not gonna be thrilled.

Chris (21:55)

What's. I just out of curiosity, because I don't know what's the stuff with him and homeless people and trans people?

Unknown Guest (22:00)

He's just as far as. It's like some legislation shit, right, Tim?

Tim (22:04)

I, Yeah, I mean he's, he's, I think he said some stuff about trans people in sports and then the homeless thing. They have been clearing out.

Unknown Guest (22:13)

Yeah.

Tim (22:14)

Investments. Yeah.

Chris (22:15)

And so is it the fairness thing in trans. Cause like he, Yeah, I, I agree with him on that. I mean, I think that that's. If we need to be different, the issue, like we, we can't just pretend like there's not a fairness gap. If that's a real thing. It's not an issue in my mind. Like, it's not an issue we should be thinking about. But I think that he's right that like, if we're going to be, you know, realistic about having a conversation about this, you can't be like, well, you know, somebody who was biologically male is competing against biologically female people. That is a disadvantage in a lot of ways.

Unknown Guest (22:41)

But it's after they've, I mean, it's not like somebody goes, okay, I'm a, I'm a girl now. Like they, it's after they've gone through hormones, which changes their body full, like full throttle changes their body.

Chris (22:51)

No 100%. I just think nobody would know Riley.

Unknown Guest (22:54)

G. His name if she didn't lose to a trans person because she'd have been fifth still.

Chris (22:58)

No, but I, I, it's less so about the, like, I don't. The issue, I think is a non issue in my mind, but I think it's more so about. I think he was right about the fact that we can't just shut down the conversation on like, we have to at least be open to the fact that we could, there could be nuance here that we don't like. And I think that, that I. There I. So I agree with him in, in that sense of like, we need to at least approach having a conversation, not be like, no, no, no, nope, there's no conversation here. We can't have it like that kind of us And I, yeah, if you.

Unknown Guest (23:24)

Can'T have any conversation, it's a problem. But like, at the same time, talking to these, like, I mean, the place they're coming from is not genuine at all. They could give two.

Chris (23:33)

No. Yeah.

Unknown Guest (23:34)

That's why it's anonymous. They're in it because they can demonize people that are the most marginalized on the planet. And talking to them like, that's like, oh, we're gonna debate on. This is useless.

Chris (23:45)

It's a waste of time.

Tim (23:46)

I think the problem is with what. What always happens when Republicans put a culture war thing on is that we can't have the conversation because when you're explaining, you're losing. And so they're like, this isn't fair. And when you're in a vacuum and you're like, well, if this is a biological male playing against a biological female, there is inherent physical advantage. But then you got to. You go into, like, what you were talking about. And I think this is the problem with. With our politics of the way that we talk.

Unknown Guest (24:14)

You can't sum it up in a tweet.

Tim (24:15)

You lost. Right, but that's the problem. That's the we, you know, And I.

Unknown Guest (24:19)

Think, like, these people are too goddamn stupid.

Tim (24:22)

It's just like.

Luke (24:23)

And hang on. So we've already spent more time on trans people in sports than is actually warranted in any political conversation. So, like, we have to just stop. Because this is exactly, exactly what they want. That is separate. No, I get that. But hang on. So the right to be a human with dignity supersedes.

Chris (24:48)

Here's how you do this.

Zach (24:49)

The right to play sports is on the Epstein list, right?

Unknown Guest (24:58)

Conversation.

Tim (25:00)

Don't even talk about it.

Luke (25:02)

And this is why I like where Newsom is right now, because I. I did a video about this. It was difficult. I did, like, five takes because I was like, there's no way. I'm not going to fuck this up. But the fact is that we. It's. This is not my choice. But when we look at the results, we have to put social justice in our pocket and take it with us everywhere we go. That's kind of how I'm thinking about this. We're not talking about it all of the fucking time because they have systematically attacked. I was looking at the hierarchy of needs. They are attacking your sense of, like, rfk, your sense of food and water safety. They're. They're attacking your sense of physical safety, saying, immigrants are going to murder you in the street. They're going to steal your pets and eat them. They are attacking your hierarchy of needs at the most fundamental, physiological, physical state to where now people are. They're not thinking about identity. They're not thinking about camaraderie. They have no empathy for other people. Once you've gotten. Once they have gotten you to that point where you think, I might be murdered by a refugee and somebody says, this trans girl can't play volleyball, they go, I don't give a Fuck about the trans girl playing volleyball, because I think my refugee neighbor is going to kill me and eat my pets. And they have done this so effectively that now we have to go and win on that level. And I don't mean we got to play their. Their thing or play on their turf. We have to get back to those basic issues of saying, no, you actually are better off physically and economically as a working human being in this country. When you are taken care of with progressive economic policies, you're more secure, you're safer, you're going to be happier. Your kids are going to be safer and happier. When we get people in that headspace, then they go, oh, you know what? Maybe. Maybe all these people who are different from me aren't actually a threat. Right? And that's. And we have to win that back. And so, like, we don't have to talk about the other stuff because it's. It's not going to land with. With the people who were influenced by that, by the MAGA arguments.

Chris (27:06)

There is one, but there's 180 tweets.

Zach (27:09)

That wasn't 180 characters.

Luke (27:12)

Oh, I agree. No, I can't do that.

Chris (27:14)

Well, here's.

Luke (27:15)

That's why we made a podcast, because the TikTok videos weren't fucking long enough. We need an hour and a half to yell about this shit.

Chris (27:21)

But there is a psychological reason why Gavin Newsom does this and why what he's doing is smart is because what he's essentially doing is acknowledging that there might be a point to this and then moving on. He doesn't dive in and go, let's get into the details. He deflates their argument by going, yeah, maybe there's an issue of fairness. Next thing, like, he doesn't devote a ton of time and attention to it. But at the very least, what he does is appease the psychology of the middle, where they go, I don't know if I love this whole trans sports thing. And then they just hear this guy go, eh, it's. You know, maybe there's.

Luke (27:51)

Maybe it.

Chris (27:53)

Right, right. You know, that's all it takes. Like, it's because you're right. Like, we do need to kind of put it in our pocket and move on. But you have to at least acknowledge it. If you don't acknowledge it, you completely ignore it. You end up where Kamala Harris did, and I just got fucked.

Tim (28:04)

I do think that there's a lot of truth to that, because I think that Democrats, when they ignore things, sometimes it makes it seem like that they're not taking it seriously. The best example I can give you is Al gore. And in 2009 and 10, when all of these right wing people just saying, the same people were talking about the trans issue, were saying climate change is fake, they were saying, debate me, debate me. And he wouldn't do it because he. And I understood. He basically said, it's below me. I don't want to give oxygen to this. But what it actually did was it created a vacuum.

Zach (28:35)

Yes.

Tim (28:36)

And so then all of a sudden everybody's like, why won't Al Gore debate? If it's so obvious, why won't he do it? And I think that was the beginning of the, of the sort of, you know, messaging reality that we have now is like, unfortunately, and I think this is why Gavin's being successful is that on the gerrymandering thing, he's punching him right back in the mouth. He's saying, oh, you're doing this? Well, then I'm gonna do it too. But I'm only doing it because you're doing it. And I'm also going to get the people on my side. And I think that's the important message. I think that we have to find a better message on the transit. I agree. Like, I, I think they should be allowed to play. I don't give it. Like, this whole thing is completely absurd. Like, I do not care. It's like not that many people. Let them play. Also this. What's her name? Riley Gaines, or whatever the hell her name is. Who's the swimmer, Luke?

Unknown Guest (29:21)

Oh, Riley Gaines is the swimmer.

Tim (29:22)

Riley Gates. So if you want to know whether she's being altruistic or not with this and that, this is what she really believes. Do you know what she posted yesterday? She was in her car hawking ivermectin for people.

Unknown Guest (29:33)

She was fucking. Course she was.

Tim (29:35)

For immunity to boost their kids immunity going back to school. This is what she did. So she was a fifth place swimmer. So, like, okay, by the way, the.

Unknown Guest (29:46)

Translation for fifth place.

Tim (29:48)

Okay, so even so, if you take, if you take it, if you take out the trans athlete, she still finishes fifth. She has now turned. And by the way, swimmers don't make any money. And other than like a little bit of sponsorship. So like a fifth place swimmer is not going to make anything. She immediately turns to the right wing grift. It's the same goddamn thing that Kyle Rittenhouse did.

Unknown Guest (30:08)

Same thing.

Tim (30:08)

They fucking murdered two people, got away with it, and then he goes on a tour. So, like, part of this is also, I think punching back at that shit. It's like the second these assholes come out and attack somebody that's vulnerable, they turn around and they make a fucking profit off it. And I think that's about the grossest thing that you could possibly do.

Zach (30:27)

And that right there where you ended it, Tim, that is what Democrats need to do. When I, When. When we bring up the transition or whatever issue, I say Trump is on the Epstein list. Trump is a fucking rapist, according to the New York State's court of law, an adjudicated rapist. That is an adjudicated rapist. That is a fact that has been established. That has been a finding by the courts. Right. What I'm doing is I'm not getting stuck playing defense or defending. Instead, I'm imposing a cost on the other side. The problem that Democrats have had and that Al Gore, like, I think he did the right thing in not debating these people. What Al Gore should have done is gone. Well, that motherfucker's paid by the oil industry.

Tim (31:10)

Yep.

Zach (31:10)

That is. Is getting paid to make sure that your kids grow up with. With lungs that are going to get cancer. He. He shouldn't have said, no, here's why. It's real. He should have said, that guy's a piece of shit. Here's why this guy wants your kids to die. And that is what Gavin Newsom is doing with his trolling campaign. He's not defending. He's not getting stuck on defense. He's not sitting. Sitting there trying to talk about why it's, you know, it's okay to screw over Republicans in the state of California because it's more fair for the United States. He's just saying Republicans are fucking bad and we are trying to hurt them. And that is why people are gravitating towards. He's on offense.

Chris (31:53)

There's a little bit of nuance difference. Like, I think if you change the subject too aggressively, that comes off as defense. Like, if you. If somebody tries to push an issue and you say, well, no, look over there, then they go, well, why am I looking over there? We're talking about this right here to the bit.

Zach (32:08)

And that's why Donald Trump has dominated all conversations.

Chris (32:13)

No, it's true, but Newsom is doing it. Newsom is directing it right back at them and ratcheting it up a level in the. In the category that they're talking about. Like, that, I think, is the critical thing that, like, Democrats do all the time. That's not helpful. Like, let's not change the subject to divert to something that only the left gives a shit about anyway. Like, we need to be able to go toe to toe on an issue and then ratchet it up. And that's why Newsom is being successful.

Tim (32:36)

Well, I think it's two things, because I think Chris is right. Like with the Ryla Gaines thing or whatever her name is. It's like you talk about how she's hawking Ivor Becton, full stop, because that's still part of that conversation. It's like the person that you have put up on a pedestal that is pushing this view is doing it for money. She's not doing it for moral reasons. She's doing it for money. And then on the Gavin thing, first of all, he waited for text. The Texas Democrats went out of state. I'm sure there were conversations. And then it was like, oh, we have a landing. For you to be able to go back to Texas is, I'm going to launch this thing. It's all interconnected. I agree. If you go off, way off into the wilderness, that doesn't make any sense.

Chris (33:10)

But if you go after the person.

Tim (33:12)

And say, like, Kyle Rittenhouse is profiting off being a fucking murderer. She is profiting off of being a transphobe and a shitty swimmer and a shitty swim. You know, I mean, not a better.

Unknown Guest (33:24)

Than me, but still a shitty swimmer.

Tim (33:26)

I think I would lose.

Luke (33:28)

Grading on a curve is.

Zach (33:30)

Is the more convincing message to the opposition that is the more like that is. That is going to flip the switch in their brain. You have to convince them that. That this person is a loser, not that they're an asshole.

Luke (33:42)

Right?

Zach (33:42)

They don't care.

Luke (33:43)

No, they love assholes.

Tim (33:44)

Because loser Donald Trump didn't win those debates because he won on the merits. He won on those debates because he made Marco Rubio look like a 3 inch tall, like, weakling. And he like little Marco Jeb. And Jeb, he, you know, please clap Jeb. Like, ate him alive. Like, it wasn't like, I have a better tax policy than you, or I have a better way of like, negotiating was just like, no, you. I'm the strongest man in the room. I'm gonna make everybody look small. That's why he won. Like, I mean, he has the myth of the. That he's a successful executive, which he's not. But like, he had a show that showed that he was. But like, and, and we had a conversation with a, with a, a messaging strategist earlier today. Some of, not everybody here, but, like, you know, some of the message testing they did Last year to try to move men was to basically find somebody that they could blame for something else for their long life, like picking. And this is the same situation. And it is, it is an inherently like, it is in every one of us that, like, people love to punch down. And when there's somebody on the top of the mountain, that's the person they're going to follow. It doesn't have anything to do with the policies. I bet we could get a whole bunch of people that voted for Trump to vote for whoever in 2028 if they're basically like you Republicans. I guarantee you that there would be crossover.

Luke (34:54)

It's about energy matching. And I, I know that, I know that that's, that's a thing that people are recognizing now, like me, you know, match the energy that somebody brings at you and bullies crumble when you match energy. And, and like, we know that, but have that, like, concept to give to it. And now I think people are starting to. We have that, like, mental model, as you might say in a workplace, but we, we know how to think about it now and we think, oh, no, you've got to, you've got to meet this head on and you've got to match it. You've got to stay in the lane. Like, you've just got to, you've got to have this conversation. You can't tiptoe around it. And I think that's why Gavin is doing such a great job, is because not only, like, do I think, I mean, let's be real clear, trans people are better off in the hands of Gavin Newsom than they are in the, in the hands of J.D. vance or Rubio or whoever is going to run the right. So, like, full stop, so, like, we don't have to have any. It's going to be a binary choice. Ultimately, it's not a debate. And so, like, regardless of how we talk about it or whether we use the right words, trans people are going to have more rights under Gavin Newsom or Pete Buttigieg or whoever, or Gretchen Whitmer, whoever we choose. But why I love what he's doing right now is because he is the candidate for the Times right now. He is energy matching. He is showing up everywhere, whether it's the gerrymandering, whether it's the tweets, whether now it's the jacked AI images. I made my. Made one myself. He was riding a bald eagle carrying Trump and his talons with an American flag in one hand and an assault rifle in the other. It's The America we believe in.

Tim (36:23)

You should put that in the substack chat.

Luke (36:26)

I'll throw it in there. And he's. He's so. He's matching that energy. He's doing what needs to be done. And frankly, I'm not seeing anyone else do that. But let's also recognize that had Hillary Clinton tried this or had Kamala even tried this? I mean, her troll game was pretty strong, but. But it, like, had Clinton tried this, she would have been obliterated by the press because she would have been lowering herself. You know, she would like, well, I can't believe you're dignifying, you know, this trash with a response. And she would have been eviscerated by. By all of the major outlets because she would be lowering herself and, you know, to that level. And even though he was getting a hall pass, but now we all are there. We're all there. Like, everybody is there. We all know how bad it is and how disgusting he is. And it's like, okay, now we're ready to watch this fight play out in the mud and. And vote for the winner. And that's. And that's. And that's right. And that's. That's what I will be doing when 2026 and 2028 roll around. And, yes, we will have elections for our listeners.

Tim (37:27)

You know, I obviously, I worked on the Hope and Change campaign. Right. And, like, one of the great, great experiences and the energy and everything about it was amazing. That's dead. Oh, yeah. Hope and change is dead.

Chris (37:39)

Yeah.

Tim (37:39)

I want somebody that is a fucking flamethrower coming out and just mowing everything in front of them down.

Luke (37:45)

Yep.

Tim (37:46)

I want them to go after this administration with their Justice Department. I want them investigating every department. The EPA is basically saying climate change is fake. They're getting rid of all of the, like, all. They're trying to get rid of as many regulations as they can, which basically let coal spew into the air. I want to buy what I want to. I want. I want investigations into this White House. I want Pam Body investigate. I want them all. And I will not vote for somebody who isn't like, these people have been fucking you over for 10 years. Well, it's decades now.

Chris (38:15)

Yeah.

Tim (38:16)

And it is time for a completely new vision. So if somebody can come out with the fucking Horowitz or whatever that thing, that old machine gunny thing is, mow everything down and say, like, there is a new path forward, I think that person's gonna. I think that person's got a great shot of being the next president.

Luke (38:29)

We need words so like they had hope and change. I would like our listeners come, come, you know, go to our substack or YouTube ch. Give us the new words for hope and change that are the like, you know like this is like blood and bile. Like we need like what are the new words?

Tim (38:45)

That's it.

Luke (38:46)

What, what is going to be on the battlefield after we've won this like think of those words and put them in the comments.

Chris (38:54)

Man.

Tim (38:55)

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean I thought Congressman Ksar this is not the right term but I loved his peaceful but pissed comment which I think is a good, it's not the right messaging for a presidential campaign but like I think it's, but I think it's representative of, of our side. Like everybody is angry but we also do not get violent. Like the, I mean most political violence in this country is right wing and.

Unknown Guest (39:20)

I think it's all lefties.

Luke (39:22)

Right?

Tim (39:23)

Yeah.

Unknown Guest (39:23)

Radical left, lunatic trans my antifa buddies.

Tim (39:26)

Yeah, right. All those, all those antifa people that no one ever was able to identify. But I just, I, I, I don't want to hear hope and change. I don't want to like it. We are not there status quo.

Unknown Guest (39:39)

I'll slap him upside the.

Tim (39:40)

No, no, no, no, no, no. And I agree if a Democrat's just like I'm just going to reverse everything Trump did. That's not the right answer either.

Luke (39:46)

No, I don't want to go back to that. Yeah.

Tim (39:49)

No, because it didn't work.

Chris (39:50)

Yeah.

Zach (39:51)

I've been reading a, a new substack that I just came across a writer named Evelyn Quartz and she talk how Democrats and liberals have been playing kind of like the old game and, and, and the Republicans that, that the Democrats have like welcomed into the party in the name of fighting Trump have, have been all fighting for the same thing and that is conservative. What, what is gone, what is in the past, what we're longing for. Right. Democrats in many ways have become and I mean DNC Democrats have become the. We want to make America great but not use those words again. Right. We want to go back into the past. We want to restore what was lost. We need to be more forward looking than that. Forward looking involves breaking the rules as they are today. We should not allow a filibuster to stop us from making D.C. a state full stop.

Tim (40:55)

Yeah, we, we should do.

Zach (40:57)

In fact if Puerto Rico, you know, takes either the House, if Democrats take either the House or, or Senate and the presidency, they should figure out a way to, to eject Republicans from being able to vote and make D.C. estate like we should just do. Breaking the rules, power grabs. Another brilliant creator who I've seen, Tad Stormer. He's, he's on Tick Tock. He's also on Substack. He's been talking about how the, the post Civil War amendments got passed and that's because the radical Republicans were just like, well guess what, the Democrats aren't here today. So we're voting to make sure that everyone born in the United States now has citizenship. That's how these laws got passed. That is against the Constitution. But that is how we save democracy. By saying the fascists, they don't get to play our game. We are going to run them over. And that's what I want to see in a, in a Democratic pres. Candidate, whether it's for the House, the Senate dog catcher or President.

Chris (42:07)

Go ahead.

Tim (42:08)

I think that, I think Donald Trump's actually given us an opening on statehood because of what he's done in D.C. the only reason that they have been able to send the military in there is because D.C. is controlled by, by the federal government.

Chris (42:18)

Right.

Tim (42:19)

I think it is a very, very easy case to be made now is if you don't want military intervention in our streets, you start with making D.C. estate. You give them a governor, two senators, a representative that actually can vote and then they can't do it anymore. You do the same thing in Puerto Rico where I think you have to give them the chance to vote for that. We know in D.C. that everybody wants it, but it's a little more complicated in Puerto Rico. Give them the opportunity. I actually think you should do it for everybody. Territory that we've got. Why isn't Guam a country? Virgin Islands. We own them and they don't get representation. Why like do them all? Like, I don't care. Like, and, and honestly, like we should, if we are a true representative democracy, they have to have the right to vote. And right now D.C. doesn't have that. I lived in D.C. for 10 years. Like I could vote for president and then I could vote for Eleanor Hor Norton who is a non voting delegate. So who gives a about that? And, and a city council that can only do a certain amount and a mayor that can only do a certain amount. Why are they excluded from this other than the fact that it is two guaranteed Democratic senators, Democratic Congressman? Well, there you, there were some, there were some Republicans a few years ago that were for, There was like a, there was going to be a compromise where I think they were going to give them the House of Representatives. It was going to be a voting delegate, that they were going to give Utah an additional district. But at this point, them. Like they should. We should, if we get 50 senators, nuke, nuke the filibuster, get those states in and basically just give the double fingers like Mitch McConnell did when he refused to have hearings on Merrick Garland. It's no different.

Luke (43:55)

No, I think, I mean, if, if, if it was Newsome or Buttigieg or, or whoever it's going to be. Imagine them coming in and just saying, writing an executive order and signing it that just says the Electoral College is not real anymore. Make them win in court, stop fucking breaking the rule.

Unknown Guest (44:13)

Like, stop pretending the rules matter anymore.

Luke (44:14)

Right, Exactly.

Tim (44:15)

They don't.

Luke (44:17)

And he's gotten success not because he writes the thing and then they do the thing, but because he writes the thing and he forces them in court on their heels to defend it slowly but surely. And then he gets 20%, 30% progress on that thing. Like, he is closer on birthright citizenship. And more importantly to him, he has push the envelope more broadly on all things immigration and deportation. Because the very first thing he did was drew that completely fucking batshit line in the sand of saying an amendment is not real. I'm making people not citizens anymore. And everyone said, what the fuck are you talking about? I think even our best friend on, on, on TikTok, the older millennial, posted a video about how that was such a genius and we're not saying his name again, how that was such a genius move because liberals took the bait and we're all complaining about birthright citizenship. And he said, of course the courts are going to strike down this executive order, but he's buying himself time. He's providing air cover for all this other shit he wanted to do. And I was like, okay, well, you might not be right. I think he does want to get rid of birthright citizenship. But he probably knew people around him certainly told him there's a high likelihood that even the Supreme Court is going to look at this dumb executive order and be like, are you fucking kidding me right now? And that's what's happened far. It's still not real. And it probably, hopefully, I don't think can ever be real because it's just too literal in how he wrote it. But it helped him make a lot of progress everywhere else. So if we did the same thing with voting rights, with women's rights, with the electoral college, with maybe equal apportionment of electoral votes, if we can't get rid of the Electoral College. There is something in between ranked choice voting. There are things in between where we're at now and where we want to go. And by drawing the line in the sand and saying, this is where we want to go ultimately, but we will settle for halfway for now, if that's what it comes to. At least people know what you're out there fighting for.

Chris (46:09)

I think there's one. I'm just trying to map all this out in my head now because I agree with all this stuff today. Like, it makes sense. It makes perfect sense in 2025 that this is. We got to get angry and fight back news with the same tactics. I think by the time 2028 runs around, this would be a losing strategy.

Luke (46:25)

People are going to be tired, so.

Chris (46:26)

Fucking sick of that sort of strategy that if Democrats go, we're going to just do the same shit Trump did just for four minutes. They'd be like, like, no, please don't do that. Can you please? Like, I think the whole restore some sanity to the situation will become a very successful model three years from now. It's not going to be now. I mean, think about it. Like, in 2018, was Joe Biden the guy you're like, he's going to take on Donald Trump? Fuck no. But Covid completely changed the territory and everyone. No, no, I need the safe, dude. Please, God, give me the safe, old man. We have no clue what the terrain is going to be like in 28. I think if for 25. Absolutely. For the midterms. Absolutely.

Luke (46:59)

Well, the midterms are going to determine that. How successful are we in. Litigating is horseshit in the second two years of this term. Because if we can just. If it's just impeachment hearing after impeachment hearing for two years, and he is just fucking losing his mind on the Internet and. But. But he can't do anything because he can't get a bill to his desk that isn't like, Donald Trump's going to prison. Like, that's going to be every bill that they send him once we take back Congress and, you know, hopefully the Senate too. But even if we just take back the house with a 20, 30, 40 vote majority, like, like, it's going to be a bloodbath for his agenda, and he knows that, and that's why he's fighting everything between now and then. But if we can do that and we actually don't lose our backbone in those ensuing two years, then I agree, 2028 will be a time of like, let's seal this deal and do the thing that we need to do. But it's not going to be going back 10 years. It's not going to be going back to the 90s or the 80s. This is going to be a new era where we, where we erase all of the horrific shit he did and then we rebuild fucking walls ten times higher so that people like him can't fucking do it again.

Chris (48:06)

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Policy wise, it'll be a really hard shift left, I think. I think 28, no matter what happens is going to be like, it must be progressive or bust because that's how you get working class voters. But that's a whole separate thing.

Luke (48:17)

That should be our next episode.

Chris (48:18)

Yeah.

Tim (48:21)

Well, guys, I think it is time for everybody's favorite segment and I figured out a better way to introduce it. Thanks to my wife who listened in mild horror last week when I introduced this.

Luke (48:35)

So ladies and gentlemen, that was really funny though.

Tim (48:41)

I didn't mean to do it, it just was sort of. And then I came out of my mouth and I went, oh, that doesn't work. Getting worked by Luke, ladies and gentlemen, get ready for get presented by Luke.

Unknown Guest (48:55)

You know, I had somebody else in mind when I started this recording, but then Tim dropped a name as we were recording and I've been sitting here seething the whole time. So I'd like to invite that geriatric son of a tortoise, turtle throated son of a Mitch McConnell to go ahead and get. Because he has successfully so many issues with today can go so far back and they trace directly back to that. So can someone find his last Horcrux or throw his ring into the fires of a volcano so we can be rid of that piece of shit? God, I hate him.

Luke (49:34)

No Harry Potter references though. We need a new word for Horcrux.

Unknown Guest (49:38)

It'll work.

Luke (49:38)

I'll take it for now.

Tim (49:39)

I. I hate him. Well, he's leaving, right? He's finishing the term and then, well.

Unknown Guest (49:45)

It'S almost like he's older than sliced bread. Oh wait, he is. He literally is.

Luke (49:49)

He might be literally older than slice.

Tim (49:51)

He, he is honestly like first, he is a very, very good politician and he has done tremendous damage to this country. There is no doubt about it.

Unknown Guest (50:00)

Second worst.

Tim (50:01)

I mean we would have Justice Garland if it wasn't for him and we'd be in a 5, 4 situation rather than a 6, 3. So yeah, I'm, I'm totally on board with that. And also there's this really Lovely photo of him standing in front of a Confederate flag back in the day. Unsurprised who. Who he is.

Luke (50:17)

So it's AI. He's an American. It's AI. It's fake news.

Tim (50:21)

I think I saw this photo a little before AI. But, yeah, I. It. It.

Luke (50:25)

That's something Deep State wants you to believe, Tim.

Tim (50:28)

Exactly. Exactly. And I'm just part of the Deep State, even though I have no power in the government whatsoever.

Unknown Guest (50:33)

But I don't know.

Tim (50:34)

Anyways, anyways, I think we have. We have. I think this is a good note to wrap on. So then, now it's time to get into our. Our little pitch, which is please support us, us if you can, by subscribing to our substack@findoutpodcast.substack.com $6 a month helps us keep the lights on and turning this into a real company. So if you could do that, we'd appreciate it. And also if you'd like to buy our merch, which maybe by next episode we will be able to announce some new merch that is currently in production, which I think you all are really gonna like.

Luke (51:08)

Are we getting the apple tree one?

Tim (51:10)

We are getting the apple tree.

Unknown Guest (51:11)

Oh, that's a good.

Luke (51:11)

Love that one so much.

Tim (51:13)

Yep, Yep.

Luke (51:14)

I was just telling my wife about that. I was like, we got a bunch of, like, minimalist designs and there's like. And they're just. I don't know, they're tasteful already. I get excited, man. I could get excited. There is. There is going to tell you what it looks like.

Tim (51:28)

There is going to be a dark gray or black one and a white one. So you'll be able to choose two different colors. And then, yes, there's a. There's a funny one of us as a five some that you'll.

Luke (51:40)

You know.

Tim (51:42)

Come on. It's like a golf term, not a God. You guys. Jesus.

Luke (51:47)

It's too late.

Tim (51:48)

I know. But if you.

Chris (51:50)

If you want, you can't put it.

Luke (51:53)

Back in your mouth.

Tim (51:53)

That's true.

Luke (51:54)

Too late.

Tim (51:55)

Oh, I saw what you did there, and I didn't like it. But you could see the merch store@findoutpodcast.com so with that, I'm gonna get off before we get ourselves into any more trouble.

Chris (52:05)

You're gonna get off.

Luke (52:06)

Let's get off. God, Billy, I'm done.

Chris (52:11)

I'm a mute myself, guys.

Tim (52:13)

All right, bye, everybody. Bye. Bye.