Luke (2:18)

Yeah, I, for one, am shocked. I. I mean, I really had to pick up my jaw off the floor. It really flabbered my gasted. I mean, I, I didn't. My gas, My, My flabbers were gasted. I don't know what to say.

Chris (2:31)

I. I think this is probably the most surprising news that I have also ever heard, that Donald Trump, who has bankrupted virtually everything he's ever touched, is. Is sabotaging the American economy.

Tim (2:45)

Yeah. I mean, I think if you. For those of you, and I know Luke, you won't. But for those of you who remember Seinfeld, there was an episode in which George Costanza becomes successful because he's literally doing the opposite of what his brain is telling him to do. And so, like, you could take the same approach with Donald Trump, no matter what he does, the opposite is probably the right decision. And we're seeing it now that apparently when you put tariffs in the billions of dollars on goods which jacks up prices, not as many people buy them, which means people lose their jobs.

Luke (3:20)

Crazy.

Tim (3:21)

Isn't that a wild, wild, like, way that works? And Donald Trump is also now, because he's floundering and he can't admit that the tariffs are bad, he's now floating the idea that the tariffs are so good that we can get rid of the federal income tax.

Chris (3:37)

Yeah. You know what's like, a really good idea? Let's go back to the economy we had before we got off the gold standard.

Luke (3:44)

I know, I know.

Chris (3:46)

That's what he's talking about.

Luke (3:47)

Right. We replace income tax with the most regressive form of tax there is. I think that's a great plan. That, by the way, would have to bring in 10 times what it already is.

Tim (3:56)

Right.

Luke (3:56)

To be able to replace the income tax.

Tim (3:58)

That's. That's the problem. Right. I mean, it's the thing. It's like the federal income tax brings in a tremendous amount of revenue to the federal government every year. And the tariffs, like I said, your goods, in order for that to work, everything you buy would need to be 10 times as expensive as it is now to even become close. And poor people will end up paying more of the burden than rich people. So, of course he wants to do it.

Luke (4:25)

Classic.

Chris (4:26)

Yeah. I mean, if. If there's one purpose of a president, it is to enrich himself and to protect intergenerational transformers.

Luke (4:35)

And his family. Don't forget about his family and his friends.

Chris (4:38)

Yep.

Tim (4:39)

Well, did you. Did you hear that? Apparently, Jared Kushner is. Is advising on the Warner Brothers acquisition of cnn, which I know is on hold right now, but Kushner's actually involved in making sure these deals get done.

Chris (4:52)

I mean, how much Wasn't he involved in ending the Ukraine war last week?

Tim (4:57)

Right.

Chris (4:58)

Like, didn't.

Luke (4:58)

He was also involved in buying Electronic Arts.

Tim (5:02)

Yep. And also, wasn't he supposed to solve Middle east peace? How's that going?

Luke (5:06)

I'm pretty sure, because, you know, you've got that beachfront property.

Chris (5:09)

Yeah.

Tim (5:10)

Gaza. Yes. Yeah. I Mean that, that, that the issue here is obviously like the amount of corruption that is going on in the background is weirdly like we don't talk about it that much, but because everything else is so bad and maybe that's part of the plan here, is to make everything a disaster so that they can rob us blind on the back end. But like, I believe Baron Trump is now close to a billionaire because of acquisitions in crypto. Yeah, he's 19 years old, 20 years old. I don't know what he is. But I mean, just like, how do we get people to, to wrap their heads around this? Because, like, they are being fleeced like blindly. And media's not really talking about blindly though.

Luke (5:53)

Like it is directly in your fucking face. And like, if you're so blinded by the hatred of like immigrants that you don't care as, like he literally reaches into your ass and takes your money away. I, I really don't have very much patience for you.

Chris (6:07)

Like genuine in front of you.

Luke (6:12)

No, go ahead.

Chris (6:13)

A genuine question. At what point does the economy become so unstable that we start to watch small towns and villages just start to completely collapse?

Luke (6:24)

I'll bet you next quarter. Because right now they have the holidays. That's the only, as far as I'm concerned, that's the only thing that's keeping us afloat.

Chris (6:32)

I mean, because if, if prices spike on absolutely everything, including food for low income earners and we're talking about like parts of rural America where there's just, there's simply not like a ton of wealth in every single, every single town or county or anything. Right. There are small economies within the American economy that are more vulnerable than, than the, the nation as a whole. At, at, at what point do we reach that things start falling apart and towns full of people are going down like we saw it during the, the Great Recession, Like Detroit had already been destroyed, you know, decades ago.

Chris (7:19)

For, for the recovery that it did. You know, if in 2009, President Obama didn't pass the, the original stimulus, like Detroit would have gone under again. Are, are we around the corner from that type of thing where entire industries are destroyed and with them cities and towns?

Tim (7:38)

I mean, I think there's a, there's there's a, an open question about that. And I think part of the challenge is, and by the way, we should note Detroit paid back all of those loans, by the way, with interest. So that was one of the best investment. That is how a bailout should, something.

Luke (7:51)

Donald Trump has never done.

Tim (7:52)

And they, all the Republicans were like, don't do this. Don't do this. We would have lost Ford, General Motors, Chrysler, all in one fell swoop, which would have basically meant that, that Ohio and Michigan would have been wiped out because also then all of those.

Tim (8:09)

Suppliers also wouldn't have been able to survive. It would have been a chain reaction. It would have been a death spiral. We would have likely ended up in a depression if that had happened. But in this particular case, part of the challenge, I think, and the part of the reason why the alarms aren't quite going off the way like they probably were in 2009 is because so many AI data, data centers are being built that it's, it's lifting the GDP and it's lifting growth. But because those things are being built, but it's a mirage because it's not really helping that many people. It's also going to cause energy prices to spike because they are such a drain on energy. And Donald Trump and the Republicans got rid of all of the energy development incentives for solar and wind, which was most of what was being built in the big bullshit bill. So, you know, I. Next year is not going to be a good year for the American economy and in fact it could get, you know, unfortunately, a lot, a lot worse.

Chris (9:04)

Yeah, I, I just don't worry when.

Luke (9:08)

Trump says that he's going to, you know, all AI regulation, he's going to be, you're going to have to apply to one thing and then you're done. That's his, that was his thing at fucking 6:00am this morning. Is that states don't get to regulate AI anymore.

Tim (9:20)

Well, that's actually in the law now. Like that is. It's actually a problem, I think. Or they're working on a ban of it. They don't want states to do it because they basically want them to have unfettered access to whatever the hell they want, which is not really how any industry operates.

Tim (9:35)

So yeah, guys, get excited. Next year is not going to be looking good. But you know, I think that, I mean, from a political perspective, you know, I mean this, this first year has been an abject failure. I mean, what an absolute disaster.

Chris (9:50)

It hasn't even been 12 months. And in this time we have seen entire federal agencies and departments gutted. And in some of those agencies and departments are, are responsible for responding to crises, domestic crises, including economic crises. The, the, it's, it's like you've gotten rid of all of your firemen, right when there's an emergency, there's not, maybe not an emergency right at this moment. But when there's an emergency, there's not going to be anyone to respond. The levers of, of the government on things as simple as like, I don't know, cutting checks if that needs to happen. Like all of these things are, are, are slowing down. We, we as a country are going, are now going to be far less resilient towards any shock. That could be a war, it could be a natural disaster, it could be, you know, the AI bubble popping.

Chris (10:49)

And anyone who, you know, expects the government to come and, and fix any of these issues like it, it's, it's just simply not happening.

Tim (10:59)

Yeah. I mean the guardrails are off. Right. I mean that's the thing is like we haven't seen it yet because luckily we didn't have that destructive of a hurricane season, you know.

Luke (11:08)

Yeah. Because, well, Christy Gnome says that's because Trump kept him away. You know, his sheer bravado kept him away. Maybe he was nuking him in a secret or there's like everybody in Florida turned their fans on, I'm not sure. But, but somehow the hurricanes were kept away by Donald Trump. Yeah.

Tim (11:24)

Well done with those nuclear explosions, wherever those must have happened. But, but yeah, I mean like there is, there are no guardrails and the fact is that we have a Republican Senate in House that you know, is not going to pass. I mean if there was a crisis, like I'm not sure that there would be money for bailouts and things like that. It's like a really precarious time and there just are not as many staff in the federal government to be able to like step up when we actually need them. And it's a really, you know, it's really, really scary.

Chris (11:53)

Yeah. Well, I guess if anybody needs like their, their personal lives, some financial security, they can join ice, you know, with.

Luke (12:00)

Their five figure signing bonus.

Tim (12:03)

Yeah. Yes. Well, there is good news guys. Donald Trump's birthday is now going to be free at all national parks for Christ's sake. Now. But MLK Day won't be MLK Day and Juneteenth. June. I wonder why they picked those two.

Luke (12:16)

Yeah, could, what a coincidence.

Tim (12:18)

Are not going to be those. And I worked at the Interior Department, so that's part of the, you know, overseas National Park Service. And you know, like, I don't even know what to say. Like these are, these, these days are meant to allow people to go and you know, do be able to enjoy national parks if they have a lot of money or whatever it helps to stimulate them going. And now it's Like, I mean, Trump's birthday.

Luke (12:40)

I mean, come on, Racist old white dude's birthday, right?

Chris (12:43)

Well, are they trying to pass it off as it's Flag Day because his birthday is Flag Day?

Tim (12:49)

Sort of.

Chris (12:49)

And that's. Yes, that's what they've been doing for years. Every time that they try and do something for his birthday, they're like, oh, no, it's Flag Day. Like, nobody cares about Flag Day. Like, that's not a real thing.

Luke (12:58)

Flag is not a real holiday. That's just not real.

Tim (13:00)

No. And you know what is a real holiday? Juneteenth.

Luke (13:02)

Juneteenth.

Tim (13:02)

Mlk. Like, those are real holidays. I mean, like, it's the signaling. Like they, they couldn't, like it couldn't be more obvious. Right. Like they are just doing things to, like, to enrage, you know, people of color and, and it's just completely absurd. But they're doing these things also to distract from the fact that the economy absolutely sucks. People are having a hard time getting jobs. I mean, we in this company, like had a, had a. You know, we're trying to hire somebody and got 300 resumes for one job and not that many people even know about us yet. I mean, like, there is this real concern out there that it's really hard, especially for younger people and people on the older ed to.

Tim (13:44)

To get a job. I mean, and then there's also these people who like, they have to work. There's the story. It's sort of heartwarming. There's a story this weekend, maybe you guys saw about this guy who's 88 years old.

Luke (13:56)

Yep.

Tim (13:57)

He works at a grocery store because he had a pension, I think, from an auto company.

Luke (14:02)

Yeah, from Ford, I thought.

Tim (14:03)

And they went under. He lost his pension. His wife dies five years ago. He has to work at 88 years old. Like 88 years old. And he's like. And luckily this, this guy did this like, fundraiser for him. And like they raised like $1.7 million, which is incredible. But like, and that part is heartwarming to help that person. But like, this is the society that we are living in where an 88 year old needs to work. And by the way, when that 88 year old has that job, that 16 year old doesn't get that same job. Doesn't. That job is taken because this guy needs to survive. And then this kid doesn't get any real world experience. It's like a chain reaction. And these Republicans are just like, yeah, but like we cut regulations and we cut taxes and it's like, where's the stimulus? Like they keep telling us, oh, every time you cut taxes, there's, there's a stimulative effect on the economy. Where is it? Like, can we just finally put this to bed? That, that doesn't work.

Chris (15:00)

So did that 88 year old make more money than the Cinnabon racist Karen?

Tim (15:05)

Oh God, I hope so.

Luke (15:07)

Fuck sake.

Tim (15:08)

Well, why don't we tell everybody what that was over the weekend?

Chris (15:11)

So, and for folks who, who haven't seen it and shouldn't necessarily go look for it because there's hearing about it is enough. There's a woman who just starts, she works at Cinnabon. She is doing this fully conscious that she's on camera, just starts throwing out the N word and all sorts of other hateful slurs and she has within a few days raised something like six figures. So over 100K. You know, Americans all over the country, these, these, it's not just maga. Like there are some people worse than MAGA are willing to throw a lot of money at these racist people. And it's, it's an absolute shame that GiveSend Go is a company that, that even exists. I don't, I don't know if good people use it. Right. Like as far as.

Tim (16:05)

I don't think so, because why would you just do GoFundMe?

Chris (16:07)

Yeah, well, it's a, it's a platform for, for extremists like they have raised money for the proud boys, for the 3 percenters, for Neo Nazi organizations that are getting sued by, by New Hampshire and Massachus. Like they use GiveSendGo as their, their crowdfunding platform. And yet we as, as a culture haven't reached a point where we're willing to, or I guess maybe not knowledgeable enough to, to stop other companies from providing essential services to these American companies. Right. That, that's, that's what protest is for. That's what boycotts are for. The service provider for GiveSendGo.

Chris (16:53)

Like Cloudflare, they, they need to be pressured. They, they can't be helping raise money for neo Nazis. That's, that's not something that we should allow as human beings. Right. I'm not saying federal law needs to pass to make this impossible. I'm saying the, the pressures should be economic. That you can't allow.

Tim (17:13)

Right.

Chris (17:14)

Racist Cinnabon Karen to make a hundred thousand dollars for a 20 second video where she's shouting slurs at people. That's absurd.

Luke (17:23)

Yeah. By contrast, this is kind of a tangent. Did you guys ever see the video of the GoFundMe founder or CEO when he's interviewed and somebody asked him, how are you doing? And the founder says, I run a company that is a popularity contest for kids with cancer and if you don't win the contest, you, you don't get the money to pay for your medical care. How do you think I'm doing?

Chris (17:48)

Wow, I thought that was a parody.

Luke (17:50)

I didn't. Maybe it is. I'm.

Tim (17:51)

Oh, maybe it is.

Luke (17:53)

Maybe it is.

Tim (17:54)

Like that's.

Chris (17:55)

I not very good parody. It, it looked, it looked real like it, it looked like a very well acted parody. Maybe it was fucking true. But I know exactly what you're talking about. Like he, he goes on about how if you don't win the popularity contest, you die. Like that. That's the world we.

Tim (18:14)

I mean, it's true. It's true. I mean, and this is the thing, you're correct.

Luke (18:18)

Parody.

Tim (18:18)

Okay, but like, okay, but that's even, that's still true. But, but it, but that's what I mean. That's what I mean. I don't think that was originally their intention, but that is what it has become. A, a just a terrible signal about where we are in a country where like whether you know, people get diagnosed with cancer and they can't afford the health care coverage in order to get the care that they need. In many instances a very curable types of diseases. But if they don't have a job, that means they don't have insurance, which means then that's going. Cancer treatments are hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars a year without health insurance.

Luke (18:51)

So for a 1 in 3 GoFundMes is, is for medical bills.

Tim (18:55)

Right. I actually know somebody that I grew up with who is using it right now because his ssi, social, Social Security disability stuff, he's been waiting over a year for this to happen. And with these cuts in the big bullshit bill, it may not now come. And he's literally like, I can't survive, I can't work because I have all of the, you know, the pills and the, and the radiations and the chemos virtually make it impossible. So is he just supposed to die? Is that the country? I mean this is the country that it seems that MAGA wants is like if you can't afford it, fuck you.

Chris (19:34)

Yeah.

Tim (19:35)

And if you say the end, which is what this person do. Work till you die. Right. Ben Shapiro. I don't think anybody should ever retire. Shut the fuck up. Yes, they should. The meaning of life is not work.

Luke (19:45)

Yeah. As, as he doesn't even work. Like a fucking tenth of a guy.

Tim (19:49)

A multi millionaire, million times over. But like got that way because he.

Luke (19:55)

Was fucking a hateful piece of shit.

Tim (19:57)

Right, Right. Well, now it's funny. He's like, oh, I don't like Nick Fuentes and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, you created this. You are partially responsible for all of this.

Luke (20:04)

This is your mess.

Tim (20:05)

But it's really telling that we are talking about two different stories this week. One, this old guy, who dyke, should be able to enjoy the, let's be honest, last few years of his life without bagging groceries. And then we've also, on the other side, got this woman throwing the N bomb on camera and she's able to profit off it. I mean, who's giving her, like, it just, you know, I mean, it just shows you like people. You know, John Roberts, chief Justice, said years ago, racism is over in America. Bullshit. Idiot bullshit. And this is supposed to be the reasonable one on the Supreme Court, by the way, who says this because he presents like a reasonable human being, but he votes another way. And it's just a really sad state of affairs that that's where we are, you know. But I do think that if there is a silver lining here, and we've talked about it before, I think there's an option, an opportunity here to really put forth a truly progressive agenda. And we're seeing in these special elections that people are reacting positively to it. And it may be that moment for some version of universal healthcare, which of course we will not get until there's a Democratic president. But. But you could start building towards that now. But I think. I think people are fed up and the fact that you have to like, basically be charismatic or have a horrifically sad story enough to get it lifted by a social media creator, which is this guy. Like, fortunately, this person goes around and like, does this for people. But, like, you got to catch the attention and every. And like 1% of them get that. Maybe the thing is.

Luke (21:37)

Yeah, you get maybe 1%. I mean, a really. Well, like a workaholic social media creator with a crazy audience that will raise money maybe changes a thousand people's lives.

Tim (21:50)

Yeah, at most. Right? A thousand.

Luke (21:52)

Most is.

Tim (21:53)

Is probably too, too many because that's like three years of every single day. But it's. But I do think, like, you know, we saw with Afton Bain and with the Virginia and New Jersey and California results, like these overwhelming margins, that I think the populist economic message is the way forward. I mean, James Carville, so For even saying it, James.

Luke (22:15)

So question, question.

Luke (22:19)

Is right now the most, the, the best example you can think of of like a class consciousness moving forward. Because it's not mine like a my lifetime in our. Not in your lifetime, but like recently, in recent history.

Tim (22:33)

Well there's, there's this and then there's also 2009 with the economic meltdown.

Chris (22:41)

Yeah, the Occupy Wall Street.

Tim (22:43)

Yeah.

Chris (22:43)

I mean but that was a leaderless movement. And this is kind of, you know, kind of the problem that the left has historically had in this country is this leaderless movement thing. Is it. It is hard to gain the power necessary to change the policies. Might be super popular. You know, we might, might be polling might indicate that these are popular policies. But unless we are strategic enough to elect Democrats, progressive Democrats in all of the right places, we can't achieve those things. They, they just stay as lofty goals and what ifs.

Luke (23:22)

See, And I agree, which is why that my pick for a moment that I felt like oh shit, we can make. Make some movement is last year when Luigi United Healthcare got popped. And it was ridiculous to see how quickly the right move to shut that down. But they saw it was slipping through their fingers that like even some right wing guys were like oh you know, UnitedHealthcare, they deny like 50 of claims. 70 out or 70 for no reason. Like for fucking no reason. Maybe it's not like such a bad thing and maybe we should be asking for more.

Tim (23:58)

Well to be clear though, not for no reason because they didn't want to pay. Right. Which is worse than no reason, which is infinitely worse.

Luke (24:06)

But so like. And so the right immediately shut it down. They were like, well you know, violence is never the answer. Can't do this. And like made it all about that. When in reality the movement online was not that.

Tim (24:17)

Well, I think. Oh, go ahead, Chris.

Chris (24:19)

I honestly think that that is the only time that I saw a real true disconnect between.

Chris (24:27)

The Charlie Kirks and the Ben Shapiro's and the billionaires that pay for them.

Luke (24:34)

Yes, like, because everybody's like shut the up, Ben. You don't know what the. You're talking about. That was the only time in my life I've ever seen that.

Chris (24:41)

Yeah, like the, the billionaires gave the marching orders to, to Ben Shapiro. He was going out against his audience and I, I imagine that they were threatening his life. Like not saying that that's. Well that's in any context.

Luke (24:55)

But no, but I bet they did.

Chris (24:57)

I'm. Yeah, I bet he got it. Probably the largest deluge of of death threats that he's ever encountered because definitely he, he was trying to push something that was just so blatantly opposed to and I guess so overwhelmingly, obviously.

Chris (25:17)

Not in the interests of, of his actual audience.

Tim (25:20)

So I, I would, I mean, I, I agree. I actually would consider that maybe that's the beginning of this because I, I will be honest. Like, when that happened, which obviously as an individual act was horrific. And I've actually, actually the other day I walked by the exact spot and I was, it was a very eerie moment. I was like, because it's. Now there's nothing there. So I was like, wait a minute. And I looked at the hotel and I, I was like, oh my God, this is the actual spot. But, and that was awful. But, but what caught me off was like the. So many people were essentially cheering it and on the face of it, it sounds awful, right? You're cheering someone's death. And I still think that that is true. But when you dive into how many lives were likely lost because that guy ramped up the direct result, like he's, he. There's a, There was a percentage increase, a shocking amount of cases that were denied or claims that were denied once he became CEO. And so like, then you start to understand just the rage at the insurance industry, right? Like, I mean they are in control of most of our lives. If you are not independently wealthy. Health insurance companies can be the difference between whether you live and die. And I'm sorry, but like somebody that has a profit motive should not be in charge of whether you live or die.

Luke (26:42)

And they didn't push an AI system to auto reject claims that had a ridiculous failure rate.

Tim (26:48)

They, that he was United Healthcare, right? Yeah, they had the highest reject. I said 70. We should probably fact check that. But like they have the highest rejection rates in the country that, that they're. And I think they're up by a fair amount. And. But I think sort of like this is, this is a bit of a stretch, but sort of like last year with white dudes for Harris, right? We saw in August this movement of men like us who were finally willing to stand up and say, like, we will take the lead on some of this, but it just happened too late, right? Like, but we have seen a continuation of that because of the success we've had and the people that come to us and all of that. I think that's the same with the health care stuff. I think America is ready. Like, and if I think you have to message it correctly, right, like, and I think the fact that it would be a job creator number one. Yes, the insurance industry would go away, but nobody's going to miss it. No, the world, a lot of those people honestly would have to go into federal government to manage that system. But it's also an economic driver because so many more people will be able to start businesses because they don't have to worry about the health care. And I also think the increases that we have seen in the premiums over the past few months where people are like, we're literally playing double and triple next year. You see them all online, right? People are like, I paid, you know, $8,000 and now I'm going to pay $16,000. Like, who in America has an extra $8,000 just hanging around.

Tim (28:15)

To just sink into the same thing that you got before when you still have premiums and you have all this other bullshit? So I really do think that.

Luke (28:21)

And don't forget, everything else is more expensive too, right?

Tim (28:24)

I mean, it's a, it's a perfect storm of shit, right? Like that all of these things are happening and that's why we're worried about stagflation as well, which means prices and rates stay high and then everything sucks. That's what happened in the late 1970s. And I think that's where this populace, like, I will be honest that, that, you know, the, our economic system has failed in health care. Like, just has, like, it should not be there.

Chris (28:53)

I've, I've said it, you know, on so many episodes of this show. Like, I have socialized medicine and I have better health care than pretty much everyone I know, you know, in some pretty high tax brackets. Like, I literally do not have to worry about what happens to me because I am a disabled veteran and everything is paid for from, you know, preventative care to medicines to checkups to everything. Like, it, it truly is a wonderful thing, not necessarily worth going to war for. But I, I don't think that anybody should have to go to war for the right to not worry, you know, if they're going to go bankrupt for a health problem.

Luke (29:35)

Well, because part of that, part of the story with that 88 year old is I think he owes like $215,000 in medical debt that he is working exclusively because he wants to whittle it down as much so he doesn't pass it on to his family.

Tim (29:48)

I mean, what a, like, what a horrible story, right? We're, we're supposed to be, we're the largest economy in the world. We're, quote, unquote, the most free but not really. And this guy, this 88 year old guy in his final years is making sure that he doesn't pass any debt along. Like what are we doing? Like what? Like what, what kind of country is this, that, that we allow this to happen? And I think enough people are finally waking up to it and saying, enough, enough.

Chris (30:21)

Like yeah, yeah, you know, if Zach were here, I think he'd be talking about how people need to feel the pain in order. Order to feel the need for change.

Luke (30:32)

They're gonna feel the pain.

Tim (30:35)

They're feeling it now.

Luke (30:36)

Yeah, no, I mean I saw, I saw that it was like one of the biggest percentages of purchases at Black Friday. Were you done with either a credit card or paying for. Yep.

Tim (30:46)

Which paid, pay, pay that, pay it later stuff. They have hefty on those things. Well, let's, let's talk about this then. Let's, let's do a hypothetical. What, what type of policies would excite you from coming out of Democrats in the midterms and then obviously, which would be a lead into the presidential in 2028. What are the types of things that you want to see from a candidate?

Tim (31:07)

Luke, you're first.

Luke (31:09)

Universal health care. Off the list.

Tim (31:11)

Okay, what else?

Luke (31:14)

Assault weapons ban.

Tim (31:15)

Yep. Good.

Luke (31:18)

Fuck, I got another one, but I gotta think about it. I don't remember.

Tim (31:21)

It was Zach. Oops.

Chris (31:22)

Zach.

Tim (31:22)

Zach's not here. I'm used to going Zach. God, these guys hear me say the wrong name every time. I think I got that from my grandmother who used to go, Tim, Ryan, Gene. And like all of us before she.

Chris (31:31)

Finally landed, Chris, the whole lad. I mean, the only thing that I, I really truly care about is taxing the out of wealthy people.

Luke (31:40)

Add that one to my list.

Chris (31:41)

But it's not my last one. That is like the key to solving all problems in this country is simply rebalancing the burden that is government services being paid for by disproportionately by the poor. The people who need those government services.

Luke (31:59)

Congressional stock trading ban and term limits. Then I'm done. I, I think I've got all of them.

Tim (32:04)

I, I have a. I'm going to. Let's talk about term limits for a second. So I, I agree in theory. My worry with that is that if you have, let's say a three term, four term term limits, you're essentially handing over all the power to the lobbyists because there's not going to be any lobbyist ban. And then they will go back to my list and they will go, they will go to Lobbyists to write legislation for them. I've seen this in my home state of Maine where they have term limits and they, there is a very strong lobby in Maine, smaller and you know, you don't hear about it, but it's because you have part time legislators. They're not full time. They make like $25,000 a year. It's like nothing. And lobbyists are handing them bills and then they go, yep, put it forward. Now do I think that maybe there should be some sort of upper age, sort of like there are industries that have that, like, is that like a cap at 75 years? Whatever the actuary table says is the average 65.

Chris (33:05)

Yeah.

Luke (33:06)

Well, you get Social Security, get the out.

Chris (33:09)

I agree with, with Tim and that I used to feel very strongly that there should be term limits. Like back in, I don't know, 2008, 2009, as I was like beginning to become politically aware post, post army service. And this is when I was like a Ron Paul guy. I'm supporting one of the oldest men in Congress who's been there forever. And for some reason I'm like, yeah, term limits. Yeah. But anyway, when I finally got to D.C. you know, first working as, as an intern in a Senate office and then as a lobbyist or as an advocate for veterans organizations, I came to realize the value of institutional knowledge. And I think that the way that this problem gets solved, I think that term limits might not be the worst thing in the world. I do believe that there should be an, an upper echelon and upper, upper limit of age the same way that there is a lower age in the Constitution. Right. We, we are founded that way for a reason. It's not, it's not completely arbitrary. Right. We want maturity and I also want to make sure that people aren't unhealthy and inable.

Luke (34:20)

We shouldn't be looking for our senators in their nursing homes.

Tim (34:24)

So no, it did happen. House literally happened. House member. But yes, I'm sorry.

Chris (34:29)

So the way that you solve. One of the ways that you could potentially solve the problem that would be created with, with increased churn with term limits is simply pay congressional staff more.

Tim (34:42)

Yeah.

Chris (34:42)

Because if congressional staff are, are overworked, constantly underpaid, constantly in a high, high stress environment and they become policy experts very quickly because you either you, you don't last or you become an expert and then they've, they're sitting there meeting with lobbyists all the time who are just like, hey, water's warm over here. Making four times as much as you Working, you know, half as much quarter, a quarter of what you do, like have real vacations. Because, because when the Senate, you know, House and Senate go home, they, those, those congressional staffers are still working like that.

Tim (35:21)

That's, that's the way it works.

Chris (35:22)

The government is, is always open, even when it's shut down.

Tim (35:26)

Well, that's a, it's. I mean, if you know anything about D.C. you know, like, I actually applied when I was right out of college, I applied for a job on the Senate Banking Committee Junior. Very, very like the lowest, like staff assistant type job. It was like $21,500 a year like you and DC is not a cheap place. Now, yes, this was 20 something years ago, but like it hasn't gotten that much better. Thanks. Thanks, Luke. That's.

Luke (35:49)

You got it.

Tim (35:50)

But, but what happens on the Hill is like lobbyists and organizations, associations do fundraisers and, or they do like cocktail parties and things like that. So a lot of these staffers who don't have any food, money for food, they live off of these things. And then there's, you know, these lobbyists are, it's almost like the lobbyists are like working their own feeder system. It's like bring all these kids in. Like, we're feeding them. They know we are. We're chummy with them. They get some free booze at the same time, which is like the Stafford dream on the Hill. And this, by the way, the drinking culture on Capitol Hill is quite significant and like very, very significant. And, and that's that they, it is worth the money to them to do this stuff. And I think you're right. Like, then they get up, you know, it's staff assistance the lowest. Or I think. And then it's legislative correspondent and then it's legislative assistant, staff director, chief of staff, I think is how it goes.

Chris (36:47)

Legislative director, allegedly Legislative Council.

Tim (36:51)

Right. But like those people, because they can't make more than the members. Like some of these people who have like 20 years of legislative experience, they make like $150,000 a year, which again, most part of the country. That is a good salary. Washington, D.C. it is a good salary, but like, you're not buying a house on that.

Luke (37:09)

It's not ridiculous.

Tim (37:09)

And you can go be a lobbyist for 4, 5, 6, $700,000 a year and barely do anything. And the reason they're giving you that job is because they want you to go to your friends in that office and talk to them. And I'm, and guess what, folks, that connection is far more powerful. Than someone picking up a phone phone or writing a letter. Like, it's just the reality of what these jobs are. So I would, I would pay them more.

Luke (37:34)

So I said term limits. And maybe it's more than that, but the biggest reason behind it is if you want to excite young people, and I'm speaking as our resident young person, if you want.

Tim (37:44)

We weren't saying that, Luke.

Luke (37:45)

I know, I'm marketing.

Tim (37:47)

I got so much shit for that. And now we're saying it anyway.

Luke (37:50)

Anyway, if you want to excite young people, have some old people say, all right, we're. We want to get out of your fucking way. Yeah, like, we have no interest in ruling you. But the fucking. The way it feels right now is like, all right, we got a bunch of old people who don't give a fuck and who aren't going to be around to see the consequences of what they do. I mean, they got one foot in the grave yearning for the urn, and they're making decisions that will affect us for the rest of our lives. And it, if nothing else, all it does is inspire apathy. Why does it matter if Mitch McConnell's gonna shaft me and I'll never be able to make a difference? Why. Why bother being even knowing what's going on?

Tim (38:26)

Maybe we should put that like, because he, he has. He is done in next year. Maybe that's someday. Whenever it happens, his gravestone should be, he shafted us all because he actually shafted them in one of the worst, most damaging figures in 21st, 20th and 21st century politics is that guy the fucking worst? But we have them on our side, too. I don't. I'm not going to rename because there's a lot of talk about her, but there is an 88 year old member who is running again and there is questions about her mental acumen, which at 88, I think is fair. Staff have said one thing about what she's doing. She goes in front of the camera, says another thing. I don't like. It's one thing if you are functioning, but we've seen this a few times. Dianne Feinstein's another one. She had dementia. They couldn't get her to quit. Like, they tried. They were like, you should. Like, I think even Chuck Schumer did like, you can't do this anymore. But she was already in an altered state and was like, meh, no, I'm here. So, like I think about it is.

Luke (39:24)

Is I know young people who feel like they've already been burned once they voted For Biden. He said he was running as a transitional candidate and then he ran again and this whole shit happened. Like, I know people who were politically active when Biden was like first getting elected who now don't give a single fuck.

Tim (39:40)

Yep. Yeah, well, we have to reengage those people. I do think that I, we have seen at least on the Democratic side we've had a few folks who have stepped down or is, or have announced they're retiring. Dick Durbin is one of them. The number two in the Senate for the Democrats.

Tim (39:57)

Gary Peters in Michigan. There's, there's, there's a few others. But you know, and there's rumors now that there are at least 20 more Republicans in the House that are looking at retiring because the economy is so bad and they don't want to end with an L. So there is going to be some shift over. And I don't, and I don't think the 20s, the, the presidential race to 2028. I don't think you're going to see a single person over 70 because I think everybody knows that that is a loser at this point. It's too dangerous. I mean this is like I mentioned this sometimes, like in 08 the argument was John McCain was too old. He was 72 or 4. Like now that seems like a spring chicken. So like I think we're going to see like whoever it is is going to be sub 70 on both sides. I think.

Luke (40:44)

Yeah, we'll go.

Tim (40:44)

J.D.

Luke (40:45)

Prance.

Chris (40:46)

Do we think J.D. vance is gonna run away with the nomination? I'm, I think that, I mean Donald Trump is, is impossible to control or predict. Like if, if it's up to Donald Trump. Donald Trump is running again. But all of the moneyed power behind the Trump administration, who they really like is J.D. vance.

Tim (41:09)

Yep.

Chris (41:09)

And J.D. vance is, is ideologically aligned with the techno fascists and you know, the, the Peter Thiel's of, of the world. And you know, we see people who, you know, might be a targeted minority under a.

Chris (41:25)

Under advanced government like Mark Zuckerberg who will apparently just go along with the fascists until the leopards come home and eat his face. So I mean, I personally think that, that J.D. vance is the only answer. I don't think that the, the techno fascists, the billionaires, the Elon Musk's of the world would allow anyone else into that position.

Luke (41:51)

He'll be shacked up with area, with Erica Kirk by then too. So it won't be, you know, then all the people that are upset that his wife Is not a white person will be shut up too. So then the techno. The techno fascists really like him.

Tim (42:04)

I got to do this aside, I don't really like talking about Erica Kirk because like this just happened recently and I'm just like very uncomfortable talking about it. But she said something very offensive the other day about cities because of course Republicans think that the cities suck and we're all terrible and they're all hell holes even though they're the economic engine of this entire country. And she said that. That people in young people in new in cities are replacing relationships with their jobs. And I just thought like what she said specifically women.

Chris (42:37)

Yeah. She said women are not having children.

Chris (42:41)

Because they're. And, and because at the same time she was also. And because they want the government to support them. And it's like you're. You're a career first person who wants to government is supporting you. That is, those are opposing ideas.

Tim (42:56)

Also, Erica Kirk went on Bravo's Summer House which is a debaucherous show of drinking in excess of mostly white people, going to the Hamptons and getting fucked up for three months. She went on that show.

Luke (43:14)

So I don't even mean these beliefs aren't exactly.

Tim (43:16)

Yeah, I don't really want to. I don't really want to take advice from somebody that went on. I mean I actually know one of the people on Summer is a very nice person. But like the, and the show, I mean the show's obviously like an act, but still, like if you were like I'm this like moral like blah, blah, blah, like you wouldn't go on a. I mean I wouldn't think that a very religious person would want to go on a show like that, but she did. So like, you know, I don't want to critique people's choices, but when you're going to start prescribing or describing what, what people living in cities are like and you get it that wrong, then I'm sorry, you're going to get shit. I never went on a reality show in New York. Like, you know, like, give me a break like this stuff. But anyways, well, don't worry.

Luke (43:57)

At least, at least Turning Points got that that student who wrote that fucking shitty essay speaking at. Oh you.

Tim (44:04)

So they. So this is. You brought this up last week as your get fucked segment of this. Of this woman, 1920, whatever she was, who wrote this essay and she wrote a. It was supposed to be about gender roles or something like that. And she used the Bible as her source, but she didn't even Cite it.

Luke (44:23)

She just was like, the Bible says this. Well, where's your fucking ACA then?

Tim (44:28)

Yeah. No footnotes.

Luke (44:29)

Which one?

Tim (44:29)

Bible.

Luke (44:30)

No footnotes. No footnotes.

Tim (44:32)

U.S. bible. I don't even know how you would cite the Bible, but. And then it was, of course, because her. She thought she was being discriminated against because her instructor is a trans person, which I don't know what that has any. She wanted attention. Right. This was. This was a planned. It was planned. Yeah.

Luke (44:47)

Her mom is a defendant. January Sixers.

Tim (44:49)

Oh, it's.

Chris (44:51)

It.

Tim (44:51)

It goes the whole way down.

Luke (44:52)

Yeah, yeah.

Tim (44:53)

So this is like a whole thing, but this is like a cottage industry. Right. And frankly, it is a way to get rich.

Luke (44:58)

It's.

Tim (44:59)

How much she's. How much?

Luke (45:00)

Riley Gaines playbook.

Tim (45:01)

How much does she raise? Oh, wait, she didn't do a raise. Sorry. I'm thinking I'm combined.

Luke (45:06)

I'm speaking tours everywhere.

Tim (45:08)

Yeah. So she's gonna make. She's gonna make money. I mean, this is like. This is the thing, guys. Like, this MAGA thing is. It's all about the grift.

Chris (45:14)

Yeah.

Tim (45:15)

I don't know why people like. It's. I mean, once you're in it, it's hard to admit you're wrong, but, like, they're leaving most people behind. Like, most people are not benefiting off of this stuff. And. And. And yet they've managed to blame immigrants. I mean, the Somali thing that. This person using the N word. Pretty telling that Trump has been attacking Somali immigrants over the past few weeks, and then poof, this woman is caught on camera using the N word. Gee, I wonder why that happened.

Luke (45:41)

Yeah, yeah, shocker.

Tim (45:43)

So.

Luke (45:44)

So in the spirit of that, I have a. I have a special get Buck segment. It goes. It goes hand in hand with something that Donald Trump let become. Okay, you guys. You guys are aware of the people who've been driving by the Wall. The Tim Walls house shouting, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tim (46:00)

But say that again so that people hear. So.

Luke (46:02)

So Donald Trump called Tim Walls the arsler. And a true social post. And since then, his chuckle fanboys have been driving by Tim Walls's house shouting, the arsler. And I would just like to make this publicly known that God wasted perfectly good when he put teeth in your mouths, if that is the only thing that you can deem to do with your time. I mean, I cannot imagine living such a hateful, spiteful, garbage life that, I mean, I. I see these pieces of posting. This is what I voted for as, like, videos of people driving by the House. I, I, I cannot imagine living a life like that. And the only thing that's worth saying is get, I mean, I cannot imagine it.

Tim (46:46)

It's awful. I, I, if you hadn't done it, I would, I would be happy to do a get on this. Imagine how emotionally stunted you have to be that you're. Honey, kids, get in the car. We're going to call the governor. The R word. Like, I just, yeah, it just blows.

Chris (47:07)

These are people who, who have never faced consequences. Right? And we need to, the, the, the right has successfully branded this idea of consequences as cancel culture and made it bad.

Tim (47:21)

Right?

Chris (47:22)

We, as, as, you know, the left, or whatever you want to call us, need to bring back consequences. We need to make it difficult and expensive to, to be using the R slur while you're driving by someone's house who, you know, has a disabled child. Like that is, that is beyond cruel. It is there, there is no legitimacy to this. It's not free speech and debate. It is, you're a garbage person. It is cruelty. And people should be, people should face consequences. Being careful with my words. Trying not to get upset. People, people should face consequences when they do this kind of thing.

Tim (48:03)

What I, it's a good point because I had kind of completely forgotten that his son Gus has some developmental disabilities. I think he might be neurodivergent, might have something else. So, like, people come on. Like, you don't have to like Tim Walls politically, but you don't have to do that. Like, it just, it's, you're telling on yourself more than you are doing anything else. And I see it on, well, we're all starting to use Facebook again politically because they turned off all the political restrictions. When I talk about this stuff, the all these people comment about the R word and how happy they are, and I think it's just like, look how sad your life is that you actually think that that is a, like, as a grown ass man.

Chris (48:41)

Pity them.

Tim (48:41)

I actually pity. Yeah, it's really sad. I mean, imagine that, that, that's the highlight of your day.

Luke (48:47)

Yeah, well, I mean, imagine how convoluted their beliefs have to be, right? Like they, they voted for Trump and they're like, the economy's gonna be so good. I'm gonna be making so much money, there's not gonna be any tax on overtime. I'm gonna be able to go on vacations with my family, I'm gonna buy a new car and I fast forward a fucking year and the only good thing they can say is, I Get to say the R word now.

Tim (49:06)

Right?

Chris (49:07)

Well, so one, one of the things I, I keep saying like impose consequences, but I, I'm not being clear enough and I, I think I, our listeners deserve this. We're in the holiday season right now, right? The whole. All of December is the holiday season. Families are getting together, people who don't normally see each other flying across the country. If you have someone in your life who is imposing costs on you with their cruelty, their ignorance, and it upsets you to be around them, whether it's your mom or your brother or your sister or any, any, anyone else, the way that you can impose a cost on them is simply deny them your presence during the holidays. It. If. If all of these MAGA people faced consequences, social consequences. That's what that is. You know, family is very important. If you are able to. To say, no, I am denying you access to me. I am no longer allowing you to be abusive and to reward you with my presence. Which is, which is what if, you know, family relationships are right, I will no longer support you emotionally and just walk away from those relationships. That. That is what. That is one of the. It is emotionally taxing for everyone involved. But for our listeners, that is one of the easy ways relatives, relatively speaking, to impose consequences on these MAGA people who are so cruel. You just need to show them what, what cruelty is, though you're not doing it without reason. You're. You're giving them an example of things that they can lose if they continue to be driven by hate.

Tim (50:52)

Right? Yeah, I think that's right. And I think people need to make decisions for themselves. People need to prioritize their own happiness. And I hope people take that. I hope they did it at Thanksgiving and yeah. But their families at Christmas. So we'll talk more about that. But I think, guys, it is time to wrap. We already did our get fucked segment this week.

Chris (51:12)

Do we have no merch on screen this time?

Luke (51:15)

I have nothing on.

Chris (51:16)

There we go. There's the.

Tim (51:17)

I got the. I got the Isaac. The Isaac Newton got a new. And I did my new. Some my best newsom but I had a shirt on underneath. But yep. Please everybody go purchase our merchandise@findout podcast.com also thank you to everybody who became members over the Cyber Monday special that we had. We had a ton of new members. Helps us a lot. So if you still are. Are looking to help find out in any way. Merch is one and becoming a member at findout podcast.substack.com is. And then the other thing that I want to put out there that we're really focusing on is we really like you to subscribe to our YouTube channel, which is just find out. Like, I think it's just YouTube.com findout podcast. Being a subscriber there helps us a lot because every time you watch a video, Google or YouTube pays us a little bit. So we would love you to go do that. And it doesn't cost you anything either. So we would greatly appreciate if you could do that. And so for then, hopefully for Thursday's episode, well, there'll be more of us. I will be in a little bit different setting. I'll be on the west coast, so we'll see how that goes. I won't be able to bring all my equipment, so I apologize in advance. But we'll be back on Thursday and we hope you guys have a good rest of the week. We'll talk soon.