What Really Happened On January 6th

Summary

The Find Out Podcast: "What Really Happened On January 6th"
Episode Date: November 20, 2025
Guest: Harry Dunn, former Capitol Police Officer

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Episode Overview

This episode features an unfiltered, deeply candid conversation with Harry Dunn, former U.S. Capitol Police officer, who was on-duty during the January 6th insurrection. Dunn shares his first-person perspective from that day, debunks right-wing myths, details the physical and psychological aftermath for law enforcement, and discusses the ongoing struggle for justice and democracy in the Trump era. The hosts use humor and frankness to tackle the gravity of recent U.S. history, aiming to separate fact from right-wing fiction—and discuss how to fight for and defend democracy moving forward.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Who Is Harry Dunn?

• Former Capitol Police Officer (16 years), now politically active
• Early career in Canadian Football League ("Life comes at you fast" [01:26])
• Emphasizes that Capitol Police are highly trained—far from "just security guards" ([03:00])
• Participated in “close to a thousand protests,” ranging from small assemblies to major marches ([04:50])

2. Lead-Up to January 6th: Security and Threats

• "We've been grading life on a progressive curve since 2016 and then 2020." (Host 2, [00:53])
• Capitol Police were used to demonstrations, not full-fledged attacks
• Advance intelligence reports about potential violence were generally dismissed as "unbelievable" ([09:01]). The assumption was "basic human decency" would prevent disaster
• "I chalk it up to incompetence more so than a...security failure, clearly. But I don't believe it was a setup." (Harry, [10:19])

3. The Attack Unfolds: Inside the Capitol

• Dunn’s Position: Overwatch with AR rifle, outside, to prevent rioters from taking weapons ([13:21])
• "Allowing somebody in and not being able to stop them from getting in are two different things." (Harry, [14:25])
• Decision to fall back was about regrouping and finding defensible positions, not “giving up” ([15:09])
• Metropolitan Police’s Arrival: Their reinforcements were crucial, despite not knowing the Capitol’s layout ([15:19])

4. Confronting the Rioters

• Describes standoffs with rioters in vulnerable areas; officers physically overwhelmed, exposed to bear mace, and potential armed threats ([17:11]–[19:26])
• "Every single person in that building was a threat, period." (Harry, [22:29])
• Clarifies that peaceful entry is a myth—no one went through proper screening, and many forced entry violently ([14:25], [22:47])
• "They were not friendly...I got complaints filed against me because I was telling people to shut the fuck up and get the fuck out..." (Harry, [22:07])

5. Debunking MAGA and Right-Wing Myths

• Directly counters right-wing claims (FBI “op”, Antifa, “allowed in by police”) ([10:48]–[12:37])
• "Don’t be out there just pushing this propaganda because it fits your fucking narrative. Like, give me a break." (Harry, [10:57])
• MAGA’s supposed allegiance to 'law and order' is pure hypocrisy in the face of their treatment of police after January 6 ([12:05])

6. The Human Impact on Officers

• Stress, physical danger, and moral betrayal: officers caught between rioters and political gaslighting

• Dunn credits many for "saving democracy," but says "all we were trying to do was make it home to our families." ([31:35])

• Multiple officer suicides in the aftermath—moral injury and PTSD ([36:07])

  “People tell you that it didn’t exist or you were responsible for it…people carry a lot of heavy burdens about that, and it's not fair.” (Harry, [36:07])

• "Blue Lives Matter" symbols turned against police: “They saw Blue Lives Matter flags being used to beat their sisters and brothers.” (Host 3, [39:23])

7. On Political Accountability, Pardons, and Justice

• Officers and insurrectionists have had divergent outcomes—perpetrators pardoned, officers’ lives upended ([34:34], [35:37])
• Pardons extend to those making further threats and even violence against law enforcement ([35:00])
• Deep frustration with lack of accountability: "I feel betrayed by this country." (Harry, [58:07])

8. The Myth of Martyrdom: Ashley Babbitt

• Shooters cleared after multiple investigations; Babbitt breached five or six checkpoints before being shot ([24:01])
• “She was a traitor...The military honors that she was given...bestow a shame on the entire veterans community.” (Host 3, [24:57])

9. Memory, Narrative, and the Info War

• Mainstream media and right-wing media ecosystem both blamed for the rewriting and downplaying of January 6 ([58:23])
• Need for persistent storytelling to counter lies and apathy ([60:28])
• “I think if you took a, you know, that, that clip that the Jan6 committee released of all of the violent insurrection and you showed the average American, I think they would be horrified by that. But I don't think many of them have seen it since that day.” (Host 1, [59:43])

10. Moving Forward: What Does Justice Look Like?

• Dunn’s sense of justice has shifted—impeachment, courts, elections all failed; now focused on activism, education, and Congressional power as bulwark ([46:41]–[51:20])
• “Accountability and justice now looks like making it better...[It] looks like fighting, continuing to fight for a better country and not letting one man getting off the hook define no accountability and no justice ever again.” (Harry, [51:19])

11. Personal Mission, Hope, and Raising the Next Generation

• Dunn now runs Democracy Defenders PAC, focused on electing pro-democracy candidates ([51:53])
• He emphasizes setting an example to his daughter: “Standing up for what is right is the number one thing to do no matter what. Even when it's hard.” ([55:19])
• January 6th is not about left vs. right, but the fundamental line of whether violent, anti-democratic acts are acceptable ([56:00])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If the President of the United States tells you to do something, fuck it, you're going to do it." (Harry, [32:45])
• "We were just trying to make it home to our families. That was it." (Harry, [31:35])
• "Blue Lives Matter flags being used to beat their sisters and brothers." (Host 3, [39:23])
• "I believe standing up for what is right is the number one thing to do no matter what. Even when it's hard." (Harry, [55:19])
• "The corruption is just off the charts." (Host 1, [64:51])
• “I feel betrayed by this country. This country betrayed me, obviously with a lot of other people.” (Harry, [58:07])
• “Why the fuck did they let him back in the White House?” (Harry, [58:02])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |:----------|:--------| | [00:16] | Introduction & Harry’s Background (Capitol Police, CFL) | | [02:37] | January 6 Set-up & Capitol Police Responsibilities | | [07:35] | Pre-J6 Intelligence Failures & Ignored Warnings | | [13:21] | Harry’s Position and Actions During the Attack | | [14:25] | Mythbusting: “Police Let Us In” & Realities of Overwhelm | | [17:11] | Inside the Capitol: Violence, Munitions, Chaos | | [22:07] | Right-Wing Media Attacks & Harry’s Response | | [24:01] | The Ashley Babbitt Narrative—Facts vs. Myths | | [31:35] | Human Motivation: Survival over Abstract Ideas | | [36:07] | Officer Deaths, Suicides, and Moral Injury | | [39:23] | Blue Lives Matter Flags Used as Weapons | | [46:41] | Political Betrayal & Failure of GOP Accountability | | [51:19] | What Does Justice Mean Now? | | [51:53] | Democracy Defenders PAC & How to Get Involved | | [55:19] | Teaching His Daughter: Setting an Example | | [58:02] | "Why did we lose?" - Harry’s Challenge to Listeners | | [60:28] | Apathy & The Info War: Why This Still Matters | | [64:51] | Impeachment as Oversight: The Only Legislative Leverage |

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Final Thoughts

This episode underscores that January 6th was neither spontaneous nor benign, but a violent, deliberate attack on democracy—one with lasting moral, psychological, and political consequences. Harry Dunn’s testimony is a pointed rebuke to revisionist history and political cowardice, emphasizing the importance of sustained activism, truth-telling, and setting a moral example.

Host’s Mission: Amplify truth, fight apathy, and empower listeners to get involved—supporting the real defenders of democracy, like Harry Dunn.

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Learn more & get involved:

• Harry Dunn’s Democracy Defenders PAC
• Substack: Standing Our Ground
• Podcast: Pours and Perspectives
• Book: Standing My Ground: A Capitol Police Officer’s Fight for Accountability and Good Trouble after January 6th
• Socials: [Harry Dunn]

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"Standing up for what is right is the number one thing to do no matter what. Even when it's hard."
— Harry Dunn ([55:19])

Transcript

[Harry Dunn]

Foreign.

[Podcast Host 1]

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Find out podcast. We have a great show for you today. We are actually joined by one of the Capitol Hill police officers that was there on the scene on January 6 and has been a true patriot his entire life. Harry Dun is with us. Harry, how are you?

[Harry Dunn]

I look good to be with you all. Thank you all. I'm well, all things considered. Right, Good, good.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yes, All. That's. It's so funny. Any. Anytime I ask somebody that, whether it's on the show or in person, because I live in New York City, it's the same. It's like, well, you know, considering, you know, I know we're standing right, like, we've been grading.

[Podcast Host 2]

Grading life on a. On a, like, a progressive curve since 2016 and then 2020. I'm like, I don't know, man. We're real low. But, like, relative to, I don't know, two weeks ago, like, I. Sure, I'm doing fine.

[Podcast Host 1]

Like, I mean, every day above ground is a good.

[Podcast Host 3]

It's kind of like if you're not dead.

[Podcast Host 2]

Are you wheezing? I. I can. I can't. The bar is not breathe. So that's a good sign.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 1]

So, Harry, I want to get into your. Your story and obviously talk about January 6th, but when, as I was doing research, I didn't realize that you were drafted into the Canadian Football League. Did I read that correctly?

[Harry Dunn]

I signed as a free agent in the Canadian Football League. Yeah. The Montreal Alouettes. A short stint up there at two different seasons up there where I played. Injuries kind of brought that career to an end, and here I am now. Life comes at you fast.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah, well, I.

[Harry Dunn]

Offensive tackle. That's awesome.

[Podcast Host 1]

And I think that's actually important to what we're going to go into because you are not a small person and.

[Harry Dunn]

You are my playing. My playing size. I was 6, 7, 3, 35.

[Podcast Host 1]

Oh, my.

[Harry Dunn]

That was like the best shape of my life. I'm like a fat old man now.

[Podcast Host 1]

I'm like, I mean, same, same. But I think it's important to. To set the table for people for what we're going to talk about because I, you know, obviously we're talking about a lot of things that have happened past January 6th, but I do think it's, you know, for our audience, you know, take us back. I know it's. This is not a good day in history, obviously, but, like, give me. Give us a rundown of, like, you know, what you were. What you were supposed to be doing on that day, and when you got A sense of things starting to go wrong.

[Harry Dunn]

You know what's crazy? Like, you know, we're. We're almost five years in January to be five years since the January 6th attack. And the fact that we still have to talk about it, right, because one of the darkest, biggest days in American history. But also one of the reasons why I have find myself continuing to have to talk about it is because some individuals are attempting to rewrite what happened, erase what happened, tell everybody what they saw with their own eyes didn't really happen. So that's why it's kind of ironic something, five years later, we're still talking about front and center. But that's why. But going into the story, you know, I was a Capitol police officer for 16 years before I left the department in 2023, 24 to pursuit of my political aspirations. But people didn't know who the Capitol police were on January 5, 2021. They didn't know the Capitol Police had their own police force. They didn't know that January 6th happens every single election cycle. They didn't know that, but it always did happen. So this wasn't my first, my second, my third, January 6th, that happened where they certified the results of the election happens every single year. Capitol Police has their own unique police force. It's not security guards, although people may look and be like they're just checking X ray machines and magnetometers when you walk through. I mean, we have K9 officers. We have a SWAT team. We have officers that'll pull you over if you run a stop sign. We have all kinds of. We have intelligence sections, we have threats. There's a hell. We operate a dignitary protection division, which is similar to Secret Service, that escorts. That protects 24, 7, 365 security for members of Congress, including leadership, the speaker, the minority whip, the lead, all that type of stuff. So Capitol Police is not just security guards. It's a very esteemed police force with a great group of men and women. And I would say over my career, I have overseen close to a thousand protests, maybe more. And when you see protests, I'm not talking about the extremism of January 6th or whatever. It could be three individuals out there reading a Bible in front of the Capitol to their members of Congress that's protected free speech and considered a protest. And from anything from that to the Million Man's March, the Black Lives Matter to any the. What's the big abortion right that they do every.

[Podcast Host 1]

Oh, the Women's March or the.

[Harry Dunn]

No, the one.

[Podcast Host 3]

The March for Life.

[Harry Dunn]

March for life, right to life, and everything in between. So conservatives, liberals, anarchists. I mean, hell, the KKK came up there protesting one day. So it's. It's a life in the day of Capitol Police, all while doing that. Our number one focus and our number one drive is to keep members safe so they can fulfill their constitutional obligations. That's our mission statement. Yeah.

[Podcast Host 2]

You weren't out there checking, like, parking tickets at the hospital parking garage? Is that what you're saying? This is not. That's not the job.

[Harry Dunn]

Well, no, we have people that issue, so you better park where you're supposed to, especially on Capitol Hill. You will get a ticket.

[Podcast Host 1]

I can vouch for Harry because I have been pulled over by the Capitol Hill police in the past. I used to live in D.C. and I think it was in the mid 2000s, it was a few years after 9, 11. And there was a big no, no on driving box trucks up through. On the House side of the Senate side, there's two roads. I think it's independence and Constitution. Constitution on the other side. And you know me as like a. I think I was like, 25 or. No, I was 23, 24. I'm drive. I'm moving. I'm moving to the Hill. I'm driving my truck. And all of a sudden, the guys swore me, and they're like, what the hell? And then I realized it, and I was like, I'm an idiot. Yeah, I will go all the way around. But anyways, they're. They're.

[Harry Dunn]

They're.

[Podcast Host 1]

You know, if you live in D.C. you see the presence, but generally speaking, you're right. Like, you don't see them, and you don't, you know, think of. Of all the things they do. But I think that's a good. So. So that's a good table setting for the next part, which is. So on January six, you know, obviously, there had been a ton of rhetoric. The president. President Trump at the time was still. Was saying the election was stolen and raped. Stop the steel. Ted Cruz was getting up on cars and screaming like, we're gonna go to the Capitol the next day. Charlie Kirk bust hundreds of people on his own dime. You know, this guy that we're gonna, you know, give memorials to, you know, doing was doing all of this. So. So you're. So. Did you guys have any, like, advance notice that things might get rough? Was it a surprise or what? How. How did that unfold?

[Harry Dunn]

So, you know, going back and looking at all the social media posts, you know, based. And seeing how things unfolded it's easy to see. Yeah, maybe we should have. But at the same time, like I said, we've over seen thousands of protests. Like I said, the Klan was up there. The people, the second right Amendment group have been up there before the Million Men March. I mean, inaugurations where every demonstration, major demonstration, police are outnumbered. Like we just rely on basic human humanity and decency that they're not going to attack officers and stormed the Capitol. I mean, if you look at that, that's the case across the whole country. Police numbers are outnumbered, but yet they're in control. How? Because they got guns? No, because they believe in human decency. I mean, if every single armed individual in this country went against the police, the police wouldn't stand a chance. But we kind of, I mean, kind of like the military too. I mean it's like the same thing. Humans and civilians outnumber law enforcement. So looking back, yes, maybe there were signs there. Like, I've seen things. I saw screenshots. Hey, we're going to storm the Capitol. Yeah, right, bro. Okay, cool story.

[Podcast Host 2]

Talk a lot of shit, right?

[Harry Dunn]

Cool story. Like, sure, good, good luck. But yeah, they weren't lying, right?

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah, I was, I was one of the intelligence guys, like infiltrating those extremist organizations, writing reports for the FBI, kind of like trying to. And my entire fucking field was right. I wasn't alone in this. And, and we were more or less ignored like it. I, I think that it's not just because the Trump administration effectively had everyone stand down. I do think that the threats that we were bringing forward sounded so unbelievable that people just simply dismissed them. And I, I think that was that complacency was a big part of, of the problem of what happened that day and, and letting law enforcement not be prepared for what I, I knew in my, not in my heart, like I knew for a fact it was happening. Like, I had, I had the recordings, I had the videos, like all that.

[Harry Dunn]

So we saw like, I saw like a screenshotted plan of action for they were going to occupy the capital and surround it and they would have teams of snipers on buildings to take out law en responding. You're thinking like, shut the hell up. No, no fucking way, dude. Like, you know, but maybe was their plan all along, you know, but.

[Podcast Host 3]

I.

[Podcast Host 1]

Can tell you it was.

[Harry Dunn]

That was the plan, right? I chalk it up to incompetence more so than a yes, it was a security failure, clearly. But I don't believe it was a setup as many people in some orbits have suggested. I Think it was a total and absolute intelligence failure, but I don't believe it. Set up by this orchestrated plot to make Donald Trump and his supporters look bad. Like, no, it wasn't that. It was.

[Podcast Host 1]

You mean you weren't like a secret antifa member that was paid by the left?

[Harry Dunn]

They've been saying that stuff.

[Podcast Host 1]

It's fucking ridiculous.

[Harry Dunn]

One of the most recent reports that one extreme news group, I'm not going to say their name, has reported that a former Capitol Police officer was the pipe bomber. Like, that's the. Listen, I'm all for finding who out any bad players that did anything wrong, bring their ass to justice. I don't care if her last name is Pelosi or their last name is Trump. I don't care if they're responsible for it. But don't be out there just pushing this propaganda because it fits your fucking narrative. Like, give me a break.

[Podcast Host 1]

Well, we've heard that it was a, you know, an FBI op, right? All of these things which it's like while Trump is president, right?

[Podcast Host 2]

If you told me, I don't know, 10 years ago that, that in 2025, the party that holds all of the government, every lever of power in government, was also the party that is systemically gaslighting police officers and intelligence agencies in order to protect criminals and that they're also going to call themselves the party of law and order at the same time and that people would vote for that. I would have been like, what the are you talking about? Like that's, that's a, that's a dystopian. That's not even sci fi, I would believe. Yeah, well, that's why we are.

[Harry Dunn]

Well, that's why those talking points and reaching people where they are and great shout out to you all for the reach that y' all are doing because people hear stuff and they just believe it. Oh yeah. Trump's for no. Okay, let's pull the curtain back a little bit and show that he's only for people that are with him. You know what I mean? If there was somebody out there that, that loved guns and was anti abortion and you know, all the pro tariffs, all that stuff, but they said Donald Trump, you lost the election, that he would hate them.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yes, yes.

[Harry Dunn]

Blind loyalty to one. I know individual. Not even topics.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right. Well, well, Harry, so at the start of everything, you were outside, correct? Yeah, at the beginning. So were you in one of those front forward lines of officers when those barricades started to go or.

[Harry Dunn]

No. So my whole career I worked on what's called the first responders unit. And it's always outside, hot, cold, rain, sunny. Fair weather with fair weather doesn't exist in dc. The humidity.

[Podcast Host 3]

Two weeks out of the.

[Harry Dunn]

Year that are maybe like, yeah, we'll get about two weeks. Those weeks won't even be consecutive. It'll be like three days later.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

But no, I worked outside first responders Unit and at that particular day I was on a staircase, the one of those upper. The upper steps with a rifle. I had an AR Rock River AR rifle with me and it was just like an overwatch position. I wasn't on the front lines even most of that day. We'll get into it. But I didn't suffer a lot of the physical injuries that a lot of.

[Podcast Host 2]

My co workers, Black Bulls and the.

[Harry Dunn]

Tasering because I was at a position of advantage with an my rifle and I didn't go into the crowd for fear that they would grab my, take my rifle.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right.

[Harry Dunn]

So I kind of just stayed back and just helped, helped out with officers as much as I could.

[Podcast Host 1]

So with all that going on, obviously it becomes chaos pretty fast. Right. Because I think they all kind of gathered and then they moved very quickly, which is why they put out this nonsense that. Oh, we were actually. Let's dispel this right now. A lot of them said, well, we were just allowed into the building by the police officers. What's your response to that?

[Harry Dunn]

Listen, allowing somebody in and not being able to stop them from getting in are two different things. Like if you got 500 people coming in, one person, two people are not going to be able to stop. So they kind of made a business decision and said, f that I am not getting trampled. So being let in is not the same as not being able to stop them. Let's be clear about that.

[Podcast Host 1]

So, so then when obviously there the decision was made, which obviously, if you look at the footage, like there was really no other option other than to let them in because there were just not enough officers. So you see that happening. So is that when you start moving inside or what's the trigger to.

[Harry Dunn]

Also real quick though, back up, just the officer falling back. It wasn't giving. It was a retreat to a position of better position of advantage. You know, you're not going to sit there, you're going to try to find a different area where you're more safe or you're surrounded by more officers and there were more officers at the building, the wall of the building, the face of the building and inside the building. So they were falling back to Regroup with everybody else instead of just being out there in no man's land. But to answer your question, as far as, like, when I went in the building. So, no, I. So Metro Police, we got, I think, to thank for Metropolitan Police showing up when they did, because everybody talks about Capitol Police, Capitol Police, Metropolitan Police saved our ass. So, you know, you had officers grabbing Metro buses just coming, and while MPD was on the scene, the crowds just kept growing bigger and bigger and bigger, and they. Metropolitan ended up being on the front line, mixed in with Capitol Police. But we. A lot of the Capitol Police officers were in the building and on the building doors because the average Metropolitan Police office doesn't know the Capitol landscape. They don't know the layout of it. So once the initial breach happened in the Capitol, officers were on the radio calling for, hey, we need help inside now. So I was like, all right, I know the building inside. Capitol Police know the building inside. D.C. police doesn't really, hey, let's. The guys that I were around, hey, let's go inside. Because, hey, if they say, hey, I need somebody at H233, I know where that is. But nobody else is really going to know where that is. So I went inside. That's where I. When I came. Went inside the building.

[Podcast Host 1]

Okay. And then from there, I Did you go directly to Speaker Pelosi's office or how did that. What. When you went inside, were you seeing. I'm going to call them insurrectionists, because that's what they were. You know, did we see them? And, like, what happens inside the building once you get there?

[Harry Dunn]

So where I came out is actually where the President usually walks out to take on the West Front on that big inaugural stage. And that was a staging area for where officers were, whether it was to refuel munitions, to get water, to get deconned, to get medical aid. A lot of vulnerable officers were there. Yeah, so officers are down there, and, you know, they're in a vulnerable state right there. Officers sometimes are incapacitated because they have been sprayed with bear Mace. And also thinking about bear Mace, these individuals had raid and WD40 that they were spraying. It wasn't just bear canisters and raid. They. They were just pelting officers with everything they had. So the officers were incapacitated in those states. Some of them had rifles also in. They would set their rifles down. They would take their gun belts off. So guns were in the hallway and obviously surrounded by officers within their possession. But this was at this time a secure location. So I run up the stairs to get towards where I hear shots fired. Obviously, this fast forwarding a little bit where I hear. And at the top of the staircase where these officers were, it was unguarded. It was left wide open. And there were rioters, insurrectionists in the crypt of the building, just meddling around, just, they weren't doing anything but screaming and chanting and blah, blah, blah. But I knew at the bottom of those stairs, those officers were vulnerable. There were guns there, there were munitions, and they would have been coming up from behind them. So also another thing, the people that were in the building weren't screened. They had backpacks on them. We don't know if they had weapons on them. We don't know if they had bombs on them. But from what I saw on the west front, where the most violence took place, officers were getting their ass whooped. So I assumed that anybody in the building was whooping. Officers asked to get in the building, so they treated them as hostiles. So I had a standoff right there guarding that staircase until other officers showed up. And then I ran into the, the speaker's lobby.

[Podcast Host 2]

Once officers came, I, I think that's the thing that's so important to call out is like, it's so easy to rewrite history once you know all of the information and say, well, nobody even had weapons. You guys didn't have all of the, you didn't have the helicopter footage. You didn't have the, the crowd footage. Like, you guys are, you guys are people in a building, and there are thousands of people pouring into the building, like you point out with, like, flagpoles and pepper spray and all the, we know that they had, and then tasers in some cases, and then God knows whatever else in their backpack. And you're the only people standing between maybe those people and getting the actual elected officials. And you got to make decisions in that spot. You don't have all that information that, oh, well, these people are just peaceful or they're not.

[Podcast Host 3]

Well, let me. You don't know what step in here because not a lot of people know this, but there were a fuckload of insurrectionists who were carrying firearms who entered the building.

[Podcast Host 1]

Shocker.

[Podcast Host 3]

I, yeah, I, I have, you know, researchers who were in the crowd who were standing next to them. Like, one would go to draw his weapon during a conflict, and others would tell him, no, not yet. Not yet. Right? Yeah, not, not, no, not yet. Out of here, but not yet. Right. So, so it's, you know, I, I, in the initial, because I wasn't on the ground that day, my initial emotional response was like, why didn't the, why didn't the law enforcement like, open fucking fire when people started getting beat? Because in any other situation where cops are getting beat like that, there, there would I think, be in exchange for gunfire. But in that situation, it, it would have made things a thousand times, a thousand times fucking worse. Oh yeah, there's no, there were not enough cops to stop all of the insurrectionists who had firearms.

[Harry Dunn]

And also another thing. Correct. And thanks for being there, Chris. Also. But one of the other things is in law enforcement, and I've never had military training, but I assume where, you know, you treat somebody like they have a gun until you prove that they don't. Everybody armed until you prove that they're not. The reason why people are able to walk around the Capitol without guns pointed to their head and because they go through security.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right, right.

[Harry Dunn]

So we proved that they don't have weapons. Nobody in the Capitol is armed under normal days. When they talking about, hey, why is every, when the officers weren't friendly, like, I, I got complaints filed against me because I was telling people to shut the fuck up and get the fuck out. They're like, hey, hey, relax, we're peaceful protesters. No, get the fuck out.

[Podcast Host 1]

No, the fuck you're not.

[Harry Dunn]

People like this. Another the right wing web news Officer Dunn was unhinged. He had to be surrounded by people. He had his, he had his firearm, his rifle trained. And they were worried that he was going to shoot them. You should have been worried.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right, right. That is exactly.

[Podcast Host 1]

You shouldn't fucking be in there.

[Harry Dunn]

You should have been worried that I was going to shoot you. Because that's the thing, these people were threats. Every single person in that building was a threat, period. Because not one person submitted to security screening and several of them trampled and beat officers to get in the building.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right.

[Podcast Host 2]

So when they say, oh well, we were led in the building, we were peaceful protesters, you could easily respond. So you went through security then, Correct?

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

Because that's the only way you're let in the building. Once you go through security with that.

[Podcast Host 1]

Shit, man, it's like, look, you know, it's like what the Republicans have done with the woman who was, who was shot and killed trying to break into a secured location. And what I would say, like, you know, and I've been in the White House, I've been in the Capitol. Like, honestly, that's what you want the officers to do?

[Podcast Host 2]

Like, if there is an angle, eventually, yeah.

[Podcast Host 1]

And they're screaming about where is Mike Pence, where is Nancy Pelosi? What do you think they would have done if they had gotten a hold of them?

[Harry Dunn]

Right?

[Podcast Host 1]

They were. They had a gallows. They had a gallows out there. And some people were. Were stabbing police officers with American flags. I mean, the symbolism of that is just, like, insane. But I just, like. And Trump has, like, talked about this woman, and I don't even want to say her name, like, but is like a. A martyr. And I'm like, no, she attempted a coup on the United States.

[Harry Dunn]

Not even that. A lot of things. I don't. People that follow this know her family was awarded a $5 million load of money.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right.

[Harry Dunn]

Because. And what was. What were they awarded for? A wrongful death. Right. All right, so if it's a wrongful death, there should have been charges filed against that officer that should have been. He was cleared by three different agencies multiple times that it was a good shoot. And let's be clear. Let's be clear. Yes, she went through. That was the fifth or sixth police checkpoint that she breached. It wasn't like that was just her crossing the bike racks outside or going up the steps or then banging through the door. So three, four, going up the steps again to the speaker. That was like, the fifth or sixth time she had bypassed security.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right.

[Harry Dunn]

And that was the final stop. Now, listen, I'm sorry that somebody lost their life or whatever, but those are consequences when you do stupid things like that.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yeah. Ashley Babbitt is. Was an American veteran, and she was a traitor to her country.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yes.

[Podcast Host 3]

Yet the Trump administration, one of its priorities coming back into power, was giving her full military honors, which. Which is. Which is wildly, wildly offensive to the hundreds of thousands of Americans who've died in the name of fucking freedom wearing a military uniform. She. She is and always will be a traitor. The military honors that she was given don't bestow honor on her, but they do bestow a shame on the entire veterans community.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah, Yeah. I agree 100% with them.

[Podcast Host 1]

Well, and it's sort of to give people an example. It's like, you know, if you see. Everybody could see the White House, that there's the very long lawn, right. And surrounded by fences. Now, would you like it if somebody jumped that fence, ran all the way to the White House, opened the door and went outside? Or would you expect someone to have taken that person down about 10ft before they. They crossed the same. I don't see how this is any different from that. It's just. They're the first fence. Well, they've there's been some jumpers. They don't get. They get them in the first fence, but, like.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah, they don't.

[Podcast Host 1]

You don't make it. They don't get very far.

[Harry Dunn]

I mean, I like the fact that the Capitol is open and accessible to people. Yeah, I like that. It should be. It's the People's House. You have the right to lobby your members of Congress. The people that work there work for you. You're their bosses.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right.

[Harry Dunn]

You should have access to them, but you can't just have unfettered access just walking around like there are ways to go. And they know this. Like, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not saying anything new or breaking. They know this. They know that there are ways to get in the Capitol. And not one single person thought that that was okay. Reasonably thought that. No one person thought that's why they were prosecuted, that's why they were charged, that's why they were convicted, that's why they pled guilty.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right, Right. So. So I want to get to that. Oh, go ahead, Luke.

[Harry Dunn]

Go ahead.

[Podcast Host 1]

Well, that's the interesting thing about a pardon. You have to have done the thing to get a pardon. Yep.

[Harry Dunn]

Correct.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yep. So, so. But let's. I want to keep going through the day, and I want to come back to that, because that is another disgrace that Trump has put on all of us. But, so, so eventually you end up in the speaker's chambers. Right. Did you actually interact or outside. Did you ever interact with her or the staff while you were there, or were you out front, like, just based on making sure that nobody was getting in?

[Harry Dunn]

So I didn't know until afterwards, like day or two later after, you know, talking to people, where you were, where you were, and this stuff that while I was interacting with the group called the Oath Keepers, which I testified in open court, Kent, on two different occasions, while I was interacting with them, I was also distracting them because a lot of her staff were barricaded in their office. I didn't know that at the time. And they were actually being evacuated while I was distracting them, unknowingly distracting them. And I didn't know that that was happening until, like I said, about two or three days later. And that's why I have Speaker Pelosi and her office and her staff. And I have such a strong affinity for each other because it was kind of like unintended consequences. I got them out safely without even knowing.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right.

[Harry Dunn]

It. You know.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right.

[Podcast Host 2]

Well, that's. That. I mean, that's just effective. Mediation, Right. Like just de escalation. I mean, you don't seem like a inherently violent person.

[Harry Dunn]

Man, like one of them, the sweet bears, man.

[Podcast Host 2]

I told, I told my wife this.

[Harry Dunn]

Morning, I'm going to tell him not.

[Podcast Host 2]

You know, I told my wife this morning, I was like, we're interviewing this guy who is a Capitol police officer and he's like 6, 7, 330 pounds, you know, retired football player. And she's like, who the fuck would choose to attack somebody like that?

[Podcast Host 1]

These guys, these guys aren't the sharpest tool in the shit. Right.

[Harry Dunn]

So I believe in de escalation too. Right.

[Podcast Host 2]

Let's talk it out.

[Harry Dunn]

I was a hostage negotiator. I was a crisis intervention officer. We got trained by the FBI. Like that was my training. I was certified negotiate. So I believe in de escalation. I mean when I go into scenes with people that are in crisis, I'm going there without my gun, without. And this is what I do. But this wasn't that moment right there.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right. So, so Harry, you, you've, you've mentioned before that there were, you did experience some physical altercations with some of these.

[Harry Dunn]

What?

[Podcast Host 1]

Describe that because again, I think it's really important. First of all, we're talking about like how ridiculous is, we're talking about this five years after. But I do think it's important to remind people of the, basically the hand to hand combat.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 1]

That was happening on that day. So could you just walk us through some of that?

[Harry Dunn]

So I was lucky. Like I said, I didn't experience a lot. My hand to hand combat was a one hitter quitter. Like I knocked, punched a guy, a shove here and there, experiencing back blowback and bear spray and mace and all that stuff. And I looked, the next after it was over, I noticed my, my hands were bloody, I had blood, but I don't remember where the hell it came from. But I do remember decking the guy pretty damn good. That's the extent of my hand to hand combat.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

Like I'm not going to portray like I was the one out there battling on the front.

[Podcast Host 2]

No White House down or something.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, I wasn't Jason Bourne out.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right.

[Podcast Host 2]

They all were in their heads. That's what, that's what they were thinking in their heads. They're all the action stars.

[Harry Dunn]

Absolutely. But, but what I did see and what I did do was officers that were out there getting their ass whooped. They were coming in and I was like, all right, find work. What can you do? These officers need aid. So whether it was applying bandages or tissues or to stop bleeding or finding band aids, flushing out eyes and chemical irritants so they can get back in the fight, whatever that was, that's what I was doing. But the extent of my, you know, like I said, because I had my rifle slung to me all day, so I tried to avoid people. So the extent of my hand to hand combat was a lot of just shoving get back and that one, one hitter quitter. Like.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah, yeah, right, right. So, so the thing that probably a lot of people are, and I've wondered this too is like, while this is going on, like, are you processing that this like what is actually happening or do you just go into the, like, I have to protect. I, I have a job to do, I'm in it. And then after the fact, you think about it or is like, how, what is that thought process?

[Harry Dunn]

Like, I'm glad you brought that up because a lot of people credit these officers and me and my co workers for saving democracy or, you know, like, that's a hell of a byproduct of what we did. Like, I, I glad that it came out and thankful for the accolades and the awards, but we were just trying to make it home to our families. That was it. Like, I just wanted to go home to my daughter, my co workers, I wanted to make sure they went to their husbands and wives when they, at the end of the day. And I think all of us looking to the left and to the right of us, that's all we were thinking about. Keep each other safe and keep the members safe. Like that's it. The election wasn't on my mind. And Donald Trump and Joe, that wasn't on my mind. It's like, let's get home safely. It's hard for not to be on your mind because the, the, the while they were there, the entire time they were screaming, Donald Trump sent us. Donald Trump sent us.

[Podcast Host 1]

Okay, so just to be clear. Yeah. Because I think this is a very important thing that people on the right still don't admit is that the, the people that were there or a lot of them believe that Donald Trump sent them there.

[Harry Dunn]

Listen to this man. Listen. If the President of the United States tells you to do something, fuck it, you're going to do it. Listen, man, if my mom tells me to do something, I don't care what anybody says, I'm doing what mom said. Like, I don't care what anybody says. Mom. What mom says goes period, point blank, period. However, if the President tells you to do something you're not going to feel emboldened. Donald Trump told us to. It's on tape.

[Podcast Host 2]

Go watch to save the country.

[Harry Dunn]

President told us to do.

[Podcast Host 3]

Right. Donald Trump convinced them that he was coming there to physically be present to back them up. They believed that they were paving the way for their fucking golden calf to come up the stairs and be fucking carted into that room and be sworn in as, as the next president.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 3]

That is what they were there for.

[Harry Dunn]

Now, like I said, right or wrong? Like, well, wrong ain't no right or wrong. Wrong. They were wrong. But also like I said, Donald Trump told them to. So listen, I get them following orders, so to speak. But you're also a grown ass man or woman who has to make an educated decision. Be like, wait a minute. So I don't have sympathy for people that. You know what, There were people there. And a lot of people use this as a defense in court. We got caught up in the moment. You know what? You probably did. You're right. That is not an excuse though.

[Podcast Host 3]

Nope.

[Harry Dunn]

I know, probably. But you have to be accountable for your actions.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah. I mean I got caught up in the moment when I was eating that bag of Doritos last night. I mean I ate the whole thing. But that, you know, I still got to work off those calories. It's not the same. I didn't storm the capital. I was gonna say so far up in the moment. I was gonna say, Harry, I guess you're suggesting that these guys around and then they found out.

[Harry Dunn]

Correct. They did. But it didn't last though.

[Podcast Host 2]

It didn't last because now for like six months.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah. Now they're being celebrated as heroes and run them, they're running for office. They're getting appointments in administrations.

[Podcast Host 1]

Jesus Christ. Yeah, well, and also being. And also being rearrested too.

[Podcast Host 2]

Or, or, or killed. One of them was just straight up shot.

[Podcast Host 3]

At least one has gotten a second pardon.

[Harry Dunn]

So happened this weekend.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yep.

[Harry Dunn]

Pardoned a guy for. And a woman for threatening to kill the FBI that their pardoned from January 6th did not cover. But Donald Trump repartoned them to include that. And it's just sickening. I mean you have the proud boys. They have $100 million lawsuit pending. I don't know where the status of that is now. They filed 100 million, so they're being rewarded. And meanwhile I quit my job four years short of a pension, a full pension, you know, and officers are being forced to retire. And I mean I had it great, you know, as an officer. I Love it. But. Well, I want to talk about lawsuits left and right.

[Podcast Host 1]

I want to talk about this because I think it's important that, that people, you know, the, the right tends to say, well, the only person that died on 9 on, on January, I almost said 9, 11 on January 6th. That's a whole other thing. On January 6th was one of ours. And, and, but that's not really true. Right. Like there were, I mean, I think two or three officers who later took their lives, which the four or five.

[Podcast Host 2]

Total have died related to the.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah, five officer related suicides. And that's something that's been near and dear to me about mental health, everything like that. Like, right. People carry a lot of burdens and struggles with them and people only seem to care after it's over. They'd be like, what the hell happened? Because I think as society and you know, not taking it, it's on a whole nother topic. But I think it's important society expects people to just be tough and strong and especially, especially when with going through arguably the worst day of your life, people telling you that it didn't exist or you were responsible for it. So a lot of people carry a lot of heavy burdens about that and it's not fair. But yes, Ashley Babbitt did die at the hands of law enforcement that day. Roseanne Boylan died that day. I think the medical examiner said she had like a heart attack. I don't know, she was trampled, a whole bunch of other things. But Brian Sicknick died, officer of Capitol Police, a Trump supporter died and he died from two, he had two strokes the night of January tonight into the mornings because a lot of people didn't leave till after midnight. So January 6, technically January 7, the day was still ongoing for us. But he had two strokes and that's what the medical examiner concluded the cause of his death. Well, Brian was in tip top shape. He was one of the bike officers. But also deep in the bottom of that report, which I really disappointed, the way the medical examiner wrote it was that he, the events of January 6th contributed to the cause of his death. But I don't think that that's buried so damn down at the bottom of the report that MAGA only sees officer died from two strokes and natural causes.

[Podcast Host 2]

Well, it's like how they say, like, well, you get stabbed in the throat and the report says you died from blood loss.

[Harry Dunn]

No, you died from getting stabbed in the throat. But, but point blank, if January, if those guys stayed home, if January 16th happened, they would still all of them would still be alive right now. Right. Period. That's right.

[Podcast Host 3]

People don't really talk about is the idea of moral injury. I think American culture has a pretty good understanding of what PTSD is. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Something bad happens and you have difficulty adjusting to it. Right. But moral injury is, is something that I think we don't talk about enough. I don't think enough people understand. And that is the concept of, of either witnessing or participating in or even hearing about something that violates your core values in a way that, that, that shakes you. And that is something that I think many police officers, not just who were present that day felt, you know, they, they saw all of the flags, the Blue Lives Matter stuff, the, the blue line in the American flags. They really believed that MAGA supported them. And then they saw Blue Lives Matter flags being used to beat their sisters and brothers. Right?

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right.

[Podcast Host 3]

And that, that like mind breaking, belief breaking incident can haunt somebody and it can result in things like, like self harm.

[Harry Dunn]

It does, it completely does. I'm glad you brought up moral injury. My friend Sergeant Aquilino Ganell talked about moral injury a lot. But also I think one of the biggest things outside of, you know, obviously the biggest thing is the loss of life, but creates this apathy where people just don't even give a shit anymore. It's just. And that not even just officers, but every single American who watched it on national TV that day, everybody who watched who gives a damn about democracy in this country and the peaceful transfer of power and the rule of law. Everybody believes in that bullshit, right? Well, we call it bullshit now because this administration wiped their ass with it. It's kind of like they deal. What the fuck is the point? So I'm glad that, like I said, going back to giving you all your flowers, thank you for doing this because a lot of people that probably listening, probably. What the fuck is the point? I don't care. Why vote? It doesn't matter. Donald Trump's going to stay in the White House. It creates this type of new rule and it crushes. It's kind of like when you find out that Santa Claus isn't real. It's like, yo, what the fuck, yo?

[Podcast Host 1]

Wait, what? I hadn't found that one out yet. Thanks for the spoiler.

[Harry Dunn]

My daughter's not here, man. Fuck, dude. I still believe in Seneca.

[Podcast Host 1]

I drive, my persons come from Christmas.

[Harry Dunn]

Eve, Christmas Eve, but midnight, I start looking up in the sky like I know there's a sleigh.

[Podcast Host 2]

Like I think there's this thing there's this trajectory as a parent, right, where like, you're a kid and you believe all the magic, and then you're a teenager, young adult, you don't believe the magic. And then when you're adult, you're like, I gotta make the magic. Like, we gotta have the magic because.

[Podcast Host 1]

There'S not a whole lot left.

[Podcast Host 2]

Faith in humanity is broken faith and patriotism is broken faith in my career.

[Podcast Host 3]

Maybe.

[Podcast Host 2]

But man, at least they say I like the Santa Claus and Easter Bunny. Like, wildly underrated.

[Podcast Host 1]

Well, Harry, there's a. There's another one now. So after all this happens and we have, you know, the January 6th commission, and you participated in all on the hearings and things like that, were you surprised or not surprised that essentially no Republicans. I mean, I guess there were 10 that voted for impeachment, but that. That they. They basically put their tail between their legs and went and hit on this.

[Harry Dunn]

Well, so I think this was like the awakening of my political rising or whatever you want to call it. I was always as I grew. And in my book I wrote about growing into the job, so you know all about law enforcement first, but now I'm curious about the votes that they're taking. I didn't care about Medicaid and Medicare. When I'm 24 years old, I don't give a damn. I got a great paycheck and I can buy a round of drinks for girls at the bar. Like, I didn't care. Like, that's all I cared about. Like, I'm cool. But as you start to grow up and you get a little older, my parents wondering about their healthcare and, hey, wait, I just bought a house. What do you mean, I gotta pay extra taxes on it? So start paying attention to shit that actually matters. So I grew into the job, so I was always aware of, Became aware of the political culture. And then obviously when Donald Trump came around, he. He created this environment where it became cult, like, more so than just doing what's best for the people and your constituents. So I started paying. And I would expect the members of Congress, I did have higher hopes for them than I did have, especially because he was an outgoing president. Like, hey, outgoing. You know, break your ties from him and, you know, fight back and do better. And everybody was immediately after January 6th. I mean, you had Lindsey Graham, Donald Trump's biggest bloke. Well, I mean, supporter.

[Podcast Host 1]

You can go for it.

[Harry Dunn]

His biggest supporter, saying, I'm done with them. I'm through with him. I'm wiping my. I can't. This is it, Kevin. McCarthy, all of them said the things on the House floor. We're done with this guy, Mitch McCarthy. Every single one, Right? But slowly after time, it wasn't even really slowly. Like, it was kind of like, it lasted about, like, two, three weeks. And then all of a sudden, it's like, wait a minute, what the fuck? Because they saw they. They chose politics over country, and we're over politics over right and wrong. And because Democrats were actually looking good because Republicans look bad, they were like, wait, we have to take this back. You know what?

[Podcast Host 1]

If.

[Harry Dunn]

You know, if y' all look bad, then fucking do better.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right?

[Podcast Host 1]

Well, we had. We had Adam. We had Adam Kinzinger on last week, I believe.

[Harry Dunn]

Adam's not a normal Republican, man.

[Podcast Host 1]

No, I know, but he. He. No, no, but he was talking about. About Kevin McCarthy originally blaming Dominald Trump and then backtracking on it and not even not voting for impeachment. Like, these guys are just. And he went down to Mar a Lago, and it's in the documentary that he was in.

[Harry Dunn]

Like, a friend of mine. Yeah, he's listening. What's up, Adam?

[Podcast Host 1]

He's a good dude.

[Harry Dunn]

We've gone out drinking a couple times together, me and Adam. Good buddies.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, it's just. It's just insane that I think. What. There were eight. Eight Republicans that voted for impeachment in the Senate? Yeah, something like that. It was nothing.

[Harry Dunn]

I thought. I thought at that moment, like, change is incremental, right? Because, you know, during. During the Ukraine, Russia thing, the phone call, like, the impeachment with that, it was not. Oh, yeah, it wasn't strong. But then we had this many come around and this make. I was like, all right, guys, we're kind of making the turn here. But then all of a sudden, then what? The ones that stood up to Donald in the House, I think it was 12 or 13 that voted for impeachment. And all of those, every single last one that voted is no longer in Congress anymore.

[Podcast Host 2]

I have emails from my members of Congress still from 2016, and Facebook posts are still out there saying, after the Access Hollywood tapes, I can no longer endorse Donald Trump for presidency. This is in 2016, and those people are all still in Congress, and they're all just doing his work. You know, after that, after January 6th, after the pardons, like, the spinelessness of Republican Party, you know, it's.

[Harry Dunn]

Listen, I get people that people need an off ramp. I get it. Like, you've committed to something for so long. How can you sit there and say, dude, I'm gonna make a fool of myself. I supported this guy. But there have been so many obvious off ramps that this is it. Like, you know, okay, tariffs. Okay, maybe not. Okay. That's not.

[Podcast Host 2]

Epstein files.

[Harry Dunn]

Epstein files. Obama and, you know, January, everything. Like, all this. There have been so many off ramps. I have zero sympathy for anybody now who throws their support behind Donald Trump. And anything bad comes of it, like, I can understand it. 2016, 2017.

[Podcast Host 2]

Right.

[Harry Dunn]

But after that, every single day, every single week, it's something new with this guy that he provides you an off ramp. Right? And y' all haven't taken it, so screw y'.

[Podcast Host 1]

All.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah, let me just cut it that. I think we're done.

[Podcast Host 1]

Well, Harry, go ahead.

[Podcast Host 3]

Harry, what does justice look like to you? I mean, the insert a lot of the insurrection. All of the insurrectionists who had been prosecuted have been pardoned. Donald Trump was never charged with. Yeah, what does justice look like to you? Do you think that justice is even possible? Like, what are you fighting for?

[Harry Dunn]

So check this out. So when I spoke out on January 7th, I wanted accountability and justice. That's my reason for speaking on January 7, 2021, until whatever the hell today is in 2025. I wanted accountability and I wanted justice. Look, accountability provides two things. It provides some type of comfort and closure to victims of anybody who's aggrieved of any situation. And secondly, it provides a deterrent to keep people from doing it again. We were on our road to debt. We were on our road to debt, and that was railroaded. Donald Trump was going to be held accountable and justice going to be served when the House of Representatives impeached him, and then it went to the Senate, and then we, like, all right, that institution failed us. So there's no justice that route. All right? The courts now. Now the courts are involved, so maybe there's justice here. When Jack Smith got appointed, I mean, the whole fucking country was rooting for this guy, for Jack, and people had Jack Smith merch, like mugs, fucking tattoos of Jack Smith. Like, people were loving this guy. Everybody loved Jack Smith. I was. I was in the courtroom rooting for him. Let's go get this bastard. Supreme Court comes out and rules. You know, Donald Trump has immunity. He's a king. He could do whatever the hell he wants. Well, fuck. All right, there's no justice there, all right? No accountability there. All right, November 5th, we got an opportunity for the people to say, we're done with this dude. It was our chance. Now it's our chance. Who more than the people. And we, the people failed that mission. We as Americans failed on November 5th not to just elect Kamala Harris, who I was crazy about. That's a whole different story. But it was just to send a message to Donald Trump. We don't like you and our country deserves better. We had an opportunity for that, and you know what? We did it. In fact, we said, you know what, Donald Trump, we like you. So maybe we as a country are a country that welcomes rapists, that potential, potential pedophiles, that likes felons, that supports people that want to grab women by the puss. We are a country that's okay with that. That is America is. And if we aren't and people are saying, no, no, no, we're not, then why the hell didn't we show that on November 5th? So to go back to the ultimate question, what does justice? I don't know anymore. I've asked myself the same question. I do know that I believe that although our country showed on November 5, 2024, that we love Donald Trump, I think we deserve better as a country. I think we deserve better. I think my kid, my daughter deserves better. I think the future generations, I think you all's kids, you all's families deserve better than what we are experiencing right now. We can be better. We have to be better. And accountability and justice now looks like making it better. I was in Maine this past weekend. You were in Maine? I got me a great.

[Podcast Host 1]

I'm from Maine. I'm from Maine.

[Harry Dunn]

Got me a great lobster roll with heavy drawn butter on it. My God, my arteries are still hurting. Yes, it was so fucking good. But I was up there. I had the opportunity to share the stage with J.B. pritzker, Governor of Illinois, Malcolm Kenyatta, the Vice Chair of the dnc, and just rallying people because I them like me on November 5th, just felt this gut punch and said, Dude, WTF man? But instead of just sitting at home pouting around, all right, I'm an action driven guy. We are at this inflection point now what do we do? So, like, initially I ran for Congress and I was like, all right, let's fucking run for Congress. All right, didn't win. All right, what now? What now can I do? What now can I do? So I'm out there speaking out now, trying to get the word out, elect good Democrats, because clearly the Republicans aren't care about nobody else but themselves and Donald Trump. So I know this is a long spiel about what justice and accountability looks like. And it looks like fighting, continuing to fight for a better country and not letting one man getting off the hook define no accountability and no justice ever again.

[Podcast Host 1]

So, so Harry, we're just at about time, but I, I, I, well one, I want to commend you for continuing to fight on this because I know it, you know, the easy thing would have been to have experienced this and basically gone away and been like, I don't know, get a cabin in the woods and not, you know, talk to anybody anymore. Move to Portugal. But you know, Portugal's nice out here. It is.

[Harry Dunn]

That's what I'm saying, man.

[Podcast Host 1]

But how could, so how could people, like what are you doing now? Like how could people support you and follow you as we're moving forward to hopefully take back the House and set it next year in 2026.

[Harry Dunn]

So I'm glad that you met, you said that, Tim. That's one of the biggest things that we can do. Like Donald Trump isn't going to jail. Elon Musk isn't going to jail. Donald Trump's gonna pardon any and everybody in this administration in the last of his four years. But how can we stop him right now? By controlling one chamber in Congress. Now the Senate is a lot tougher, math wise and map wise and everything. Cuz only a third of the people in the Senate are up. But every single person in the House of Representatives is up for reelection this year, excuse me, in November of 2026. And we have to, we have to defeat them and give a democratic controlled house. Cuz that way we can stop anything that Donald Trump wants to do through legislation. And that's the only way, like we can put a band aid on this bleeding. Now we need surgery, but give me a band. If we're going to have a choice between a band aid or nothing, give me a band aid. So I am out there, I started my pack called Harry Dunn's Democracy Defenders and it is hyper focused on electing candidates that believe in democracy and also don't take money from super huge corporations, grassroots donors and everything like that. 5, 10 bucks chip in and it goes to all supporting and getting those candidates elected. But the number one thing people can do, be involved, be educated, be educated. Like that is the number one thing that you can do because educated people make educated decisions at the ballot box and don't usually do not have buyer's remorse at the ballot box which so many people in MAGA are having right now. But also you could follow me on socials, I have a substack called standing Our ground. I have a podcast called Pours and Perspectives and I co host another podcast called Clean up on aisle 45 with my friend Allison Gill. Her name is Mueller. She wrote on, oh yeah, social medias. I do podcasts with her. But also I got a book out called Standing My Ground. A Capitol Police's Capitol Police Officers Fight for accountability and good trouble after January 6th. So that's my self promotion right there.

[Podcast Host 2]

Harry, I, I just gotta say, I mean you're a black man in America and you serve for 15 years.

[Harry Dunn]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host 2]

I mean the cameras, you know, I'm just, I'm making an assumption here. But serve the, serve the country for 15 years. You know, you get, I'll just say betrayed and betrayed and betrayed. You know, betrayed at the, at the election booth. You know, you get betrayed in the Capitol by your own people, by the President. And yet here you are doing good work, overcoming barriers, fighting the, fighting the right fight. Three of us are girl dads on this call. You, all four of us now are girl dads on this call with, with you as a guest. How do you communicate to your daughter? Like what do you, what do you, what do you say to your daughter about, you know, the future? Like, because all of this is coming through you, right? And that's like our, that's like one of our main jobs as a, as a parent is to help shape our kids worldview, keep them optimistic if possible. How are, how are you doing that?

[Harry Dunn]

Well, man, my daughter only cares about the boo boos and saying six, seven, man.

[Podcast Host 1]

Like you know, six, seven, six, seven, you know.

[Harry Dunn]

No, I mean, listen, I, kids are smart. Kids are very smart. Kids are paying attention to shit that we don't think they are. They're watching us. They're looking at our over our shoulders on our phones when we're not there. Like they're paying attention. But what I want to do above all is set a good example for I believe standing up for what is right is the number one thing to do no matter what. Even it's when it's hard. So, so Donald Trump is a bad man in our house and people that don't support people's rights and let people want to live the way that they want to. Those are bad people. But I just want to show her that daddy wasn't afraid to stand up. Daddy had a backbone. Daddy did what he thought was right. And not even just to her, to any and everybody out there, you know, listening. January 6th to me hasn't been about, you know, liberalism and ban guns and legalize abortion. That wasn't. Has it. That's not. Because you can have those discussions in the halls of Congress under normal times. You can talk about whether we spend too much on snap. You can have those discussions. Or terrorists, you can have all those discussions. We cannot discuss if January 6th should ever happen again, be allowed, be accepted. We cannot have that discussion. That is a hundred percent no deal breaker and that's morally wrong. We cannot dispute right and wrongs in this country. Like I said, we can have discussions about where we're spending our money and blah, blah, blah. We can have those discussions. But standing up for what is right. That's why I titled my book Standing My Ground. Because you have to stand up. Especially when so many people around you are telling you that you're wrong and you're crazy. Believe in yourself, trust yourself and always believe in yourself.

[Podcast Host 1]

Well, Harry, thank you very much for joining us. And also just thank you for everything that you've done for this country. And you know, you and all of the officers on January 6th are true American patriots and heroes. And it is, it is awful to hear the vocal minority, you know, knocking you guys. But I do truly believe that the majority of the country greatly appreciates everything that you and the officer.

[Harry Dunn]

Can I ask you. I know you said we're about to rap, but can I ask you a question then? Yeah, I hear that a lot. I hear that a lot that so many people say. So many people. The majority of us, the majority of. Why the didn't we win the election, man? I'm not even like being like sarcastic.

[Podcast Host 2]

Question wakes me up at 5am every day.

[Harry Dunn]

Did we not have.

[Podcast Host 1]

Well, it fills me with rage.

[Harry Dunn]

It is, if most people support us, then how the fuck did they let him back in the White House? I feel betrayed by this country. This country betrayed me, obviously with a lot of other people. But you know, and I know I asked you a question that could take a whole nother fucking show.

[Podcast Host 1]

Well, I was like, you're gonna make me explain? You're gonna make me explain maga? No, but. No, but I'll give you a short answer because I. It's very fair and you have every right to feel that way. I think that Republicans and conservative media have created an ecosystem that is impenetrable to anybody else. And they have basically over the past four. Well, at that point it would have been four years, lied about what happened on January 6th. And a lot of people are not getting good information. Mainstream media is not talking about it either. And I think on the Left. This is partly why we are doing this show because we need to amplify the fact, like we talked about it at the beginning, like the fact that we have to have this conversation almost five years after a violent insurrection or coup attempt, whichever way you want to call it, we have to remind people because no one's telling the story. And I think that is a failure both of mainstream media, which is becoming less and less useful or even noticed at this point, and when there isn't, that they have been filled with this right wing ecosystem where billionaires have been paying YouTubers and podcasters and then you got Fox News and everybody's been lying about this. And I think this is a signal to the left that we have to get serious about fighting back. I do believe that a lot of people, well, a lot of people just didn't vote because I think they thought, oh well, I don't know who to believe because they don't pay attention like we do. I'm not excusing it, but I do think there's that. But I think if you took a, you know, that, that clip that the Jan6 committee released of all of the violent insurrection and you showed the average American, I think they would be horrified by that. But I don't think many of them have seen it since that day. And so many people have told them that that didn't happen. Now, I don't think that's the total answer, but I think that, I think that's a lot of what's going on is that we just don't. Democrats also don't fight back hard enough and be outraged enough. And there needed to be more penalties. And I do think that the Biden administration needed to move quicker on going after Donald Trump, which is why we are here. So I think, yes, I could talk about that all for eight hours and probably bore everyone to death. But like, I think those are the top reasons and I think it's a multifaceted thing.

[Podcast Host 3]

You're missing one. There's apathy. Like, and this, this is, I think what Harry went, is going through is the lesson that I went through when I came home from Iraq. I came home from Iraq and realized nobody gave a shit. Nobody gave a shit about veterans, nobody gave a shit about the soldiers, my friends who were fighting and dying. Nobody fucking gave a shit about anything. And that, that is, I think the core character of America. That we're really fighting MAGA is a cancer. But the bigger problem is apathy. And that's, that's where I think we're making progress. Yeah, we're not going to convert mega, but I think we will get more people to care.

[Podcast Host 1]

Okay, well and I think also giving, you know, and I think when you build a larger left wing media ecosystem, you can actually explain all of the amazing things that Kamala Harris wanted to do on affordability. Like she had this great thing about buying your first home. She had stuff for small businesses, things that would have actually helped Americans. But I got drowned out by the fact that Biden couldn't finish the primary and then it was a circus and then Trump just like did anti trans stuff and talked about prices. I mean. Yeah.

[Harry Dunn]

So everything that's happening in Project 2025 is happening now.

[Podcast Host 1]

Right. It's a shocker about it though.

[Podcast Host 2]

Someone should have told us.

[Podcast Host 1]

Someone should have said something about that. Well, the mainstream media is now like Barry Weiss is now in charge of CBS News. Like she is a right wing hack. You know, the Ellison's bought that. They're buying other things. And so it is a serious, serious problem. And I'm glad you, you pushed me because you know, it is true and we have to talk about these things. And I do think, you know, whether it's 50.1% or not, there are millions and millions of Americans who greatly appreciate what you have done and are outraged at how you all have been treated in the past. Because this to me was a no brainer. You guys, you guys saved lives that day. Like you did. Like if there had been a, like if they had gotten into Pelosi's office, not only would have Pelosi staff had been hurt, that the protesters would have been hurt as well. You guys saved lives. You did protect democracy. I mean, I don't think that they would have overturned the, like, it would have just been a horrible, horrible mess and people would have died. And I don't. And the fact, this is actually the thing that, that enrages me is the most about MAGA is how they claim to be for veterans, they claim to be for police. And they're not. They're not. And they treat everybody like the, like you, like you should get a standing ovation wherever you go for the rest of your life for what you did on January. I know you're saying no, but I'm serious. Oh, I'll buy you a beer. You know, you know you like a little bourbon. I'll buy you all the beers. No, but seriously. And I, it enrages me and I do think Chris is right on the apathy thing and I think a lot of Democrats. There's so much going on. It's like, oh, that was five years ago. But like these guys lives change forever. Your life changed forever. We lost officers. You know, the Republicans are supposed to be the back, the blue. It's fucking horseshit. They don't care at all.

[Harry Dunn]

And I went from having my fucking private Instagram page to having a fucking Wikipedia page now. Like, what the fuck? I didn't even accept people on Instagram. Now I got a fucking Wikipedia. It's crazy.

[Podcast Host 1]

I, it's, it's, yeah, this whole world is, is, is a little nutty. But like, look like, I am so glad that we're in this fight with you and I think that there is a bigger group of people that is finally waking up to this and realizing that this is a five alarm fire. And like if we don't take back the House next year, like, you know, I don't know what 2028 looks like. And I'm not, I'm not one to be like no elections and all this shit. But like, I'm serious, like, and you know, you, what you said is exactly right. We need the House and for oversight so that we could drag them in with subpoenas, but also so that we could just jam them up and they can't pass any more dangerous stuff. So you know, I, I, I certainly.

[Harry Dunn]

Like, if I was, if I, if I was in, if I was in Congress, I would pro, I would, in the majority, I'd propose articles of impeachment every week for the next.

[Podcast Host 1]

Yeah, I mean Congressman Green did, I think. Right. Didn't he? There are some, I think.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah, but as in the minority.

[Podcast Host 1]

I know. So it's like, yeah, majority and make.

[Harry Dunn]

Them every week for the next two years. That's. You want to be a lame duck. I, if I ran for Congress again, I would run. I'm going to impeach the son bitch every week.

[Podcast Host 1]

You know, I know. Well, and it would be warranted. And he has done more impeachable things since he's been in office. It's very obvious. The corruption is just off the charts. So.

[Podcast Host 2]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 1]

Well, Harry, again, thank you and I'm glad, I'm glad we had that last bit because I do think that's really important. We do believe that you are a hero and a true patriot and we greatly appreciate all of your service and we are so glad to be in this fight with you. So everybody go support Harry. Go make, go make some donations to Democrats because you're so angry about what happened on January 6th.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 1]

And let's take the house back in 20, 28, 20, 26.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 1]

All right.

[Harry Dunn]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host 1]

All right. Thank you, Harry. We'll talk soon.

[Harry Dunn]

Appreciate it.

[Podcast Host 2]

Thanks.