Why ICE Picked the Wrong City to Invade

Summary

The Find Out Podcast

Episode: “Why ICE Picked the Wrong City to Invade”

Date: February 12, 2026
Host: Rich (filling in for Tim)
Guest: Anna Connolly (Content Creator, Activist)
Other Panelists: Regular co-hosts (B and C)

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Overview

This episode of The Find Out Podcast takes a close and emotionally charged look at the devastating impact of the Trump administration’s aggressive ICE operations in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Guest Anna Connolly—a Minneapolis-based content creator whose satirical skits dissect the logic of MAGA family members—shares personal insights, on-the-ground experiences, and reflections on how her city has responded to the “occupation.” The hosts and guest analyze both the tactical failure and the unintended consequences for the far-right, discuss viral moments, and wrestle with themes of optimism, trauma, and solidarity in the face of modern American authoritarianism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Anna Connolly & the Minneapolis ICE Situation

• Rich introduces Anna for her viral dual-character videos depicting conversations between “sane person” and intrusive MAGA relatives.
• Anna explains she’s become a key voice documenting and contextualizing the ICE crackdown in Minneapolis, a city that’s been thrust back into national headlines (02:15).

Rich: “She…gives us a really good glimpse and helps control the narrative in the battle between ICE and Minnesota.” (02:15)

2. Living Under ICE: Chaos, Surveillance, and Community Defense

• Atmosphere in Minneapolis: Feels “like pandemic again—just weird vibes,” Anna describes, noting pockets of calm versus neighborhoods witnessing ICE agents “running through your yard” (03:37–04:54).
• Schools Under Siege: Parent volunteers and teachers attempt to protect children, literally forming lines or camping out in cars as lookouts (05:01–07:21).
• Direct Impacts: Teachers arrested, families torn apart, legitimate residents living in fear, even those clearly “legal” or born in the US but with brown skin.
• Racism in Real Life: Anna recounts friends’ terror (“has not been to a restaurant since October…I’m terrified…because also, how do I prove…?”), illustrating climate of arbitrary, racially-motivated detentions (06:35).

Anna: “In our daycare…parent volunteers are like protecting the school during the day and it’s just fucking insane.” (03:37)

3. ICE’s Tactics & Community Resilience

• Reports of ICE using covert, borderline-illegal tactics—switching license plates to avoid being tracked. Community organizers track these agents but are often stonewalled (09:07).
• Viral videos, like Rachel Cohen confronting notorious ICE agent Greg Bovino, highlight both community courage and the performative, almost cosplay Nazi-style mannerisms of certain ICE officials (09:34–10:21).

Rich: “He embraced the Nazi cosplay way too eagerly...walking down the middle of a street, flanked by all these douchebags with the trench coat...dude, you know exactly what you look like right now. And you think it’s like the coolest thing.” (10:21)

4. Why Minneapolis Was the Wrong Target for ICE

• City’s History: Holdover from the George Floyd movement (“we’re very good at protesting, even in negative 45 degrees”), making it a locus for activism and national attention (11:23).
• Community’s response has effectively shamed and pushed back on the worst excesses—“I’m actually so glad they came to Minneapolis … why would you want to fuck with those people?” (11:23)

5. Media, Virality, & Propaganda Wars

• Role of Social Media: Anna and panelists discuss how TikTok and other platforms—via grassroots creators—outpace even regime media and legacy press in getting the real story out.
• Uncontrollable Narrative: When state violence or notorious acts happen (e.g., shootings of activists like Alex Preddy, or MAGA figure Charlie Kirk), the videos go instantly viral, making narrative control impossible for the administration (18:14–20:00).

Rich: “They can’t control the narrative…they can’t keep me from seeing Alex Preddy get shot…there’s no control over it because it’s all just out there.” (18:14)

• Discussion of the emotional/mental toll of witnessing such violence so frequently. Anna and the team swap “coping” tips, including EMDR therapy and Tetris for trauma (21:31–25:10).

6. Satire as Resistance: The Art and Struggle of Content Creation

• Anna explains her “MAGA muse” comes from real-life family and acquaintances, and describes the evolution from exchange of ideas (“actual politics back then”) to outright hostility—commenting on the futility and sadness at seeing acquaintances dismiss even the gravest abuses as “mistakes” (26:17–29:12).

Anna: “You ask, what about these people who are being murdered…wrongfully detained…‘Mistakes are gonna happen.’” (28:52)

• The hosts and Anna reflect on the unpredictability and impact of viral moments—how off-the-cuff videos crush hours of scripting, and the strange experience of being emotionally invested in their work (14:36–17:16).

7. Systemic Racism and the Mythology of “Legal” Immigration

• Anna recounts direct community impacts: teachers with visas forcibly detained, parents unable to work or pay rent, students supporting their families as the only citizens—all illustrating the profound disruption of generational wealth and stability for immigrant communities (35:21–40:38).

Anna: “Parents raised…money for legal fees to bail out people who are here legally…people losing jobs…just makes me even angrier…blatant racism that they just can’t see.” (37:20)

8. Broader Political Analysis: Authoritarianism, Fascism, and History

• Analysis that the ICE campaign targets blue states disproportionately, as confirmed by electoral map overlays.
• Trump’s regime is no longer hiding behind economic arguments (“they’re not even making those arguments now…just doing things for nefarious reasons”) (32:43–34:56).
• The hosts look to history—post-WWII Germany, for instance—to find possible optimism, noting that systemic collapse often precedes progress but at high human cost (31:50–32:43).

9. Coping with Modern Authoritarianism & Cult Mentality

• The conversation delves deeper into why supporters tolerate or support such policies, referencing cult psychology:
  • Fear as a driver
  • Lack of empathy for consequences
  • Society “stands for what it tolerates” (42:25–44:54)

Anna: “You can’t relate to [that level of hate], so…‘nobody would ever do that’—well, no, you wouldn’t…but the people you support would.” (42:06)

10. Optimism, Parenting in Dark Times, and Coping Mechanisms

• Anna shares both the privilege and guilt of being able to send her “little white blond, blue-eyed” daughter anywhere freely, while other parents can’t let their kids leave home.
• Teachers are forced to “hide in their attics,” creating a surreal, traumatic environment for children and staff alike (39:21).

11. Audience Q&A and Personal Reflections (45:36–53:40)

• Personalities lighten the tone with rapid-fire questions:
  • Which creator/author would Anna pick if stranded?
  • Dealing with hateful DMs vs. praise
  • Morbid hypotheticals (freezing vs. volcano, piglets vs. shark)
• Anna offers honest answers, punctuated with self-deprecation and camaraderie.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Minneapolis activism:
  Anna: “George Floyd was a global movement started in Minneapolis…us being the testing ground is so fucking funny…why would you want to fuck with those people?” (11:23)
• On ICE and racism:
  Anna: “My friend…has white parents…has never been to Columbia other than her birth. She has not been to a restaurant since October. She was like, ‘I’m terrified…because how do I prove I belong?’” (06:35)
• On coping with trauma:
  Rich: “My therapist…if you repeat how you feel and how you want to feel…you’re basically simulating REM sleep…your brain compartmentalizes memories…haven’t had really bad anxiety since.” (24:32)
• On the power of virality against propaganda:
  Rich: “Look at the times when it matters most—they can’t control shit…can’t control the narrative when they’re doing bad things.” (18:14)
• On Trumpian authoritarianism:
  Anna: “[Trump’s people]…are just bad humans. And a lot of it is, in my muses, this: ‘Well, mistakes are going to be made.’ ...They’re just not a good person.” (28:50)
• On culture and cults:
  Anna: “Do you guys read much on cult behaviors?...I think it is so fascinating…that is what this is.” (43:49)
• On optimism and history:
  Anna: “If you’re a fan of history, you’re a little bit more optimistic…look at Germany…they have an extremely educated population now…they’re not going back.” (31:50)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:15] – Anna's introduction and background
• [03:37] – Daily life in Minneapolis: ICE presence, parent volunteers, community defense
• [05:01] – Specifics on school protections and direct ICE encounters
• [06:35] – Racism: Residents in fear despite legal status
• [09:07] – ICE’s covert tactics; surveillance/counter-surveillance
• [10:21] – Notorious ICE agents and the public’s viral resistance
• [11:23] – Why ICE failed in Minneapolis (activism and solidarity)
• [14:36] – Virality, content creation, and the unpredictable impact of media
• [17:16] – The emotional cost of going viral, trauma, and coping strategies
• [21:31] – Trauma, Tetris, and EMDR: coping with repeated exposure to violence
• [26:17] – Anna’s creative process: satire born from real MAGA interactions
• [35:21] – Economic impacts: detained teachers, family instability, loss of jobs/homes
• [42:06] – The psychology of hate, leadership, and apathy
• [43:49] – The cult mindset: fear, safety, and susceptibility to authoritarianism
• [45:36] – Q&A/lightning round: personal life, favorite creators, and dark humor
• [51:19] – Absurd “would you rather”-style death hypotheticals and comic relief

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Tone & Language

The episode is irreverent, sharp-witted, and often veers into gallows humor, but always maintains a fundamental seriousness about the stakes. Anna’s voice is earnest, angry, and darkly funny; the hosts balance humor with moral and political urgency, and the pacing swings nimbly between storytelling, political breakdown, and group commiseration.

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Takeaways

• Minneapolis stands as a potent symbol of resistance—ICE picked the wrong city because of its history, organization, and viral storytelling power.
• The trauma and fear inflicted by ICE raids has far-reaching, multigenerational effects, even for legal or citizen residents—emphasizing the racial motivations behind the policy.
• Social media and independent creators have shifted the balance of narrative power, making state propaganda less effective.
• The challenge for those in the resistance is ongoing: coping with trauma, keeping the nation’s attention, and transforming the current horrors into long-term progress.
• Despite it all, community, creative resistance, and even humor remain vital weapons.

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“We can’t have the news pull out, because suddenly they could do anything in here.”
— Anna Connolly ([08:28])*

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End of episode summary

Transcript

[A]

Hey, everybody.

[B]

I'm pretty sure that's a copyrighted thing. I don't think you can use that.

[A]

I tried my best. I'm just glad that it says, oh, that's Rich on the screen. I was worried I was going to have to be Tim all day, and that's just.

[C]

That's a tough job.

[B]

You have to get older for that.

[C]

Grayer for sure. You got some gray, but you're not there yet.

[A]

Quite a bit older. The hair that I do have is a lot less white than Tim.

[B]

Fuck it. You got to go bald, man.

[A]

It's true. Before I get to Tim, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go bald anyway. If people haven't figured out by now, they're listening and they're like, what is happening right now? This is Rich, and I am your host today. I'm filling in for Tim. He had to miss the episode. I think there was. I. I think he told us, but I immediately forgot. I think he had to get a colonoscopy or something like that.

[B]

Yeah, some invasive medical procedure, I think.

[A]

Right, right. I think there was a fiber convention in Maine, and so we had to go, like, to the fiber convention. I'm not one of those things.

[C]

Sounds about right. Sounds like Violet Zipper rights somehow here.

[A]

Was I not allowed to share that? He's been backed up.

[C]

We'll find out.

[A]

Anyway, I'm going to do my best here, but I will start by saying we have a awesome guest with us today. I'm just going to read what I wrote, so if I'm not looking at the camera, don't hold it against me. So she's a content creator, you probably know, from Instagram, if not a lot of different places. She covers a lot of topics, but I think for me, her most recognizable videos are these videos where she plays two parts, and one is a sane person, and the other is like. It seems like a. Like a MAGA relative who just magically appears in her house and is usually eating something out of her fridge. And she's like, what the fuck is going on right now? And then they'll just say something dumb and she has to, like. Sort of. She gets this like, oh, God, look on her face, and then she has to sort of like, carefully disassemble and refute the argument, and by the end of the video, you're like, oh, maybe there's hope for. For America.

[B]

Her.

[A]

Her videos over the last couple of months have, I think, racked up at least 30 million views by my rudimentary count, because she's Minneapolis. She's from Minneapolis and she's been cutting all of that stuff together and giving us a really good glimpse and helping control the narrative in the battle between ICE and Minnesota. Welcome to Find Out Anna Connolly.

[D]

Thank you, guys. I'm so excited to be here and that was a great summary. Thank you, Rich.

[A]

My wife told me you guys need to have like, thoughtful introductions for people. I was like, I'm gonna see it.

[B]

And this is valuable. I liked it.

[C]

Yeah, that's good.

[D]

You're like, I'm gonna test it on Anna. I like it.

[A]

Really test it on that one.

[C]

It works. It was like a soft version. If you watch the Kelsey Brothers podcast where Jason Kelsey introduced the guest, it's like he's entering a WWE arena. He just gives this crazy introduction. It's about yours is like, that's how.

[B]

I want to be introduced from now on.

[A]

I can do that too. Drink like seven Red Bulls and then just scream, oh my God.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

That's. That's how I feel. Most days I don't even need the Red Bull. I'm like, let's just start screaming.

[B]

No.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Wake up at 4am, read the news for like 12.

[D]

Just wake up. You're like, I'm ready.

[A]

So, Anna, I wanted to ask you first, what is Minneapolis St. Paul like these days? Have things calmed down now that there's only 2, 300 ICE agents, or is it right?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, it's just. It's so calm now. Only 2300. It's weird. So I get this question a lot. And I live in a, like right on the edge of the suburbs, so Minneapolis is one block that way. And if I go west, further from Minneapolis, it's like nothing is really happening. Right? Like ice is not out there. But the vibe, the attitudes, everything, everybody's just like, it feels like pandemic, honestly, again, where you're kind of like just, I don't know, weird vibes is how I would say it. But my daughter, I have a four year old, she goes to Spanish immersion, so I'm still very much like in it. We see, you know, the just heartbreak every day, right, where teachers are being detained or their spouses or whoever. And it's just like constant news in our daycare and pretty much all daycare schools around here have, you know, parent volunteers who are like protecting the school during the day and it's just fucking insane. So, yeah, so I would say it's really based on where you are. You could be in a neighborhood where you're like, everything's normal. Like, I don't see any of this. Versus you're in a neighborhood where you're literally seeing ICE running through your yard, you know, chasing people.

[C]

So Jesus Christ. That's. What is it. What does a parent protector have to do? Like, what are their responsibilities?

[D]

So our volunteers, it's literally just watching, right? They have, like, their vests and they have their whistles, whatever, and they're just ready to call and get everyone inside immediately. There's. I can't remember if it's Brooklyn park or Brooklyn center, but in a suburb where, if you guys saw the news article about two women were detained and they ended up saving one of the agents because he was having a seizure. Did you see this?

[C]

No, I didn't see that.

[D]

Okay, you need to read that article because it's insane and just shows how untrained these people are. Because this man in the passenger seat starts having a seizure, and the other agents have no idea what to do. And the women who've been detained save his life.

[C]

Oh, my gosh.

[D]

So where that was, I can't remember which city it was, but there's tons of ICE agents there. It's a large Latino population, and they've been just, you know, it's what we all know, right? They're at schools, they're at hospitals. They're at these places where all the criminals are. And it's like, well, no, you're just attacking, like, hardworking parents. So they're. The parents I know have been literally, like, getting in a line around the school, and they'll, like, line up to the front door so that people are just walking through.

[C]

Jesus Christ. It's like. It's so. It's just so crazy hearing. Because I live in Atlanta and, like, none of that is happening, like, anywhere, because I just think they don't, you know, it's just not on their radar at the moment. It's just like, how. How long has it been? Like, has it just been since, like, Renee good, or is it prior to that as well?

[D]

It felt like this prior to that. I mean, Renee was definitely, like, the catalyst for more and more, but the reason she was killed was it had already come in and she was, you know, helping protect people.

[C]

Right?

[D]

So, yeah, it's been crazy, but I think it was, like, November. I'm trying to think, because I have a. That's the other thing, right, is. Is even people who are not even immigrants are terrified if you just have brown skin. I have a friend who was adopted from Columbia. She has white parents. She grew up in Minnesota. She has never been to Columbia other than her birth. And she has not been to a restaurant since October. She was like, I'm terrified to even leave my house right now. Because also, how do I prove if an agent says, were you born here? She's like, no, but what? Like, I don't know what to say.

[C]

Right. Should not be the question.

[D]

No. Right, yeah.

[A]

Have you personally, have you personally taken part in these as one of these parent protectors?

[D]

No. Well, so, yes, I haven't done like the vest work, but the people who kind of camp out. There's a lot of parents in the parking lots. It reminds me, this is gonna sound super morbid, but when there's a school shooting, you'll read articles of the parents who go for weeks after, just kind of like sit at their kids school because they're like, I'm just gonna sit here in my car and make sure nothing happens. And it's like, that's what we're seeing is parents will just sit there, be like, I'm just gonna make sure everything's okay. So.

[A]

Yeah. Except this time it's not random serial killers, it's the government.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

So I mean, it's just so interesting too because like, it's not the right. The national narrative is like, we're aware of this stuff, but only you guys are really embedded in it. And that's such a different experience, I'm sure. Just like America must feel like a totally different country compared to Rich and I are, you know.

[D]

Yeah, totally.

[C]

That's like, it's terrifying. That's. That's the kind of thing that's where I get really worried about like the fascist sort of stuff because they slowly bleed it in until it's everywhere, you know, and it feels like this is the one of the first entry points they're using.

[D]

I think that's totally it. And I think that's a huge like fear with, with Minnesota that I've heard other people say is don't look away. Right. It's the same thing with George Floyd protests when we were all like all eyes on Minnesota. You know, we're very good at protesting, even in negative 45 degrees. So it's one of those where you're just like, you know, we can't have the news pull out because suddenly they could do anything in here.

[C]

I mean, is it. Because I wonder about this is ice. Like, is it just like ice agents, like wandering around, like, are they just like at the grocery store shopping, and then all of a sudden they Pop out and just start doing their job. Are these, like, really hidden and they just pop out? Like, what. What's the vibe like with that?

[D]

Yes and no. Like, everyone's seen them. You can always tell which cars they are. And they're doing really shady shit. Right. They've been caught, like, switching license plates and because people are, you know, tracking the license plates and so you'll see them. I can't say I've seen any at a grocery store, but I'm sure other people have. And, like, it's, you know, super weird. I don't know how I would react. I'd be like, fuck you.

[C]

And then you get deported.

[D]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Like, you guys both saw Rachel Cohen's video where she came across Greg Bovino at a. At a. At a.

[D]

Like a gas station or something.

[A]

Yeah. And it's Greg Bovino. And she, like, she.

[C]

She.

[A]

I think she's described it as a pre hag photo shoot, which was just like. She's just standing there holding her phone. You know, she's probably. I mean, she's taller than Greg Bovino, but she's probably half the size of these other. These other huge dudes. And she's just holding her phone, recording a video, and she's like, go fuck yourself. And it was just like, oh, man, I don't think I could do that.

[C]

You know, that guy is terrible. When Tom Holman looks good compared to.

[A]

Right. A deli hand in the trench coat.

[D]

And everything, you're just like.

[C]

The haircut, it's. It's all pure. It's like if you went to a stylist, went, make me a Nazi. That's 100.

[D]

Yeah, right?

[A]

Yeah, right. I'm going to be in a 1940s period piece, except it's going to be real life in Minneapolis. No, he. He embraced the. The Nazi cosplay, like, way too eagerly. And even just the way he walked, like, walking down the middle of a street flanked by all these douchebags with the trench coat and, like, the. On the sleeves and everything. I'm like, dude, you know exactly what you look like right now. And you think it's, like, the coolest thing.

[D]

Coolest. Yeah. It's so gross.

[C]

Yeah, it's one of those things where I, like, it starts to show the limits of Trump's brazenness, too, because even he was like, all right, we gotta pull this guy out. This is. They're making it too Nazi. And even we can't go this far, which is kind of like, that's the only, like, silver Lining I found where it's like, all right, at least this shit is scaring Trump into changing a little bit. Whereas if he was, like, excited by it, he'd be like, I don't give a shit. Just keep pressing. And he would increase rather than decrease. So, like, even though it's a teeny change, it's like, all right. Trump's kind of being you know, persuaded by how negatively this is going in a teeny tiny bit, you know?

[D]

And I'm actually so glad that they came to Minneapolis, obviously. Like, not with all the harmful stuff going on, but it's like us being the testing ground is so fucking funny because I'm like, really? You didn't notice, like, five years ago, we don't really do this. And I think, you know, seeing I've told people this where I'm like, george Floyd was a global movement started in Minneapolis. So having that in the back of our minds, we're like, okay, we've already done this before. Let's do it again. Why would you want to fuck with those people?

[C]

I don't know. Hey, Luke's back. Your Internet's alive again now, just for everybody watching.

[B]

Biggest piece of shit company disappeared.

[C]

And we're like, hey, what did we say? He's back.

[A]

You missed some crazy stuff behind Luke's house cutting cables.

[B]

I hate Greg Bovino.

[C]

He's like. Actually, he's like Stephen Miller level, horrendous.

[A]

Fun size. I gotta make sure everyone knows. Fun sized. That's what. Maybe that was the badge that was on his Nazi jacket as he was walking on this.

[B]

Most likely. I. I read that supposedly all the people that accompanied him have to be 5, 7 or shorter, so he doesn't look so short.

[C]

No way.

[D]

Hilarious.

[A]

It's like in his rider, like, concerts.

[B]

Yeah, it's in his rider, exactly.

[C]

Nazi writer.

[D]

He's like a bowl of Skittles. And no one can be taller than me.

[A]

Anyone who makes Oompa Loompa jokes goes to sea cot immediately.

[B]

And I need 50 gallons of tear gas to throw at people.

[C]

Holy. I mean, it's just. I mean, you guys are really doing a huge service in that city, though, because I feel like they looked at this and went, oh, we really can't do this again, you know?

[D]

Totally.

[C]

Yeah. It's a huge. Because, I mean, it's the same thing. Like, I. Because I think. I don't know if you guys are the same with your tick tocks, but, like, I get a bunch of Atlanta oriented tick tocks because I'm here, so Like, I'm sure your own cities haven't been like, every single tick tock I get is like, people in end of the big. Don't. Dude, don't come here. Like, we all have guns like that. You're so if you come here, like.

[B]

If you try to pick, Philly's a terrible pick.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Philly.

[B]

Only places you're welcome are red states.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Unsurprisingly, they have no interest in going after.

[C]

No, I mean, that overlay. Did you ever. Did you guys see that overlay picture where it's like the. The heat map of where ICE is versus the election? The electoral map results. They perfectly lay on top of each other. Like, all the heat is on the blue states.

[D]

Of course. Yeah.

[B]

If they were after undocumented immigrants, they'd be in Texas and Florida, but they're not.

[C]

Yeah, it's. I mean, maybe I, you know, it's one of those images where I'm like, I hope this is accurate. You know, I'm not sure, you know, the source is not there. Yeah. But it makes sense. You know, I'd make a video on it. It would be that kind of thing where I'm like, I'm not so uncomfortable.

[B]

I've got a video planned. Eventually. They've got three maps. One is the voting record for 24, one is the GDP of areas, and one is the literacy rates because it turns out that land can't read or earn and it doesn't fucking vote either.

[C]

That's a good way to do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm always impressed with your videos too, because, like, I've tried those scripted videos a couple times. Those are hard as shit to put together. Like how. How much work goes into building one of those out for you, like scripting it and recording and doing. Because it's like, it's not easy to make those.

[D]

No, it's not easy. And it totally depends. So there's some. Like, scripting is fairly easy to me just because I either have these conversations in my head and I'm like, oh, that would be funny. Or. Or they're real. Right. Like, at this point when I was growing, it was harder because I was coming up with everything. Now suddenly you're like, oh, that's a good comment. Like, I'm doing that one. Or like, it's just idiots who message me and I'm like, thank you. This is great for my business. So those are easier. But yeah, the editing for the longer ones and like, I don't know if you guys are familiar with the misinformation ones. Those are, like, a fan favorite. And I love them, but they take so long to make because as soon as you add a third character, it's so much harder.

[B]

So this is the interesting thing about, like, interviewing content creators for me is, like, you do so much work, and my dumb ass just walks out to my car and like, the bet my best videos have no script whatsoever.

[C]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

That sounds like so much.

[D]

That too. Like, I'll record something in my car, you know, and it gets millions of views. And I'm like, well, why did I spend eight hours editing that other one?

[A]

Maya, after the. The comment. Oh, yeah, I was so pissed. I was walking my dog around a track at the school down the street, and I was so angry. And I had already posted a video that day, and I was like, I. I don't. I don't need to do another video. But, like, I'm so angry that he called her a. Because that was the day that that audio was leaked. And they leaked it because they thought it vindicated them. I'm like, dude, yeah. And so, yeah, I script everything, but it was like, I think I got 70 seconds of being angry and I can just go. And I started recording. And then of course, that one got, you know, several million views. And the one I posted earlier that day that I'd scripted out and worked on really hard was like fifty thousand or a hundred thousand or whatever.

[D]

Always. Or it's the ones where I'm like, I don't. Like, like, I'm not. Do I really want to post this? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, I don't really want to post this. And suddenly it's just huge. And I'm like, oh, okay, well, it could never. I have terrible taste.

[B]

That's how it is. When I have one that's like, that's a little controversial. Do I want to post that? And then I do it. And then I was like, oh, well, it's out there now.

[C]

Yeah, it's impossible to tell. I've never called it right. I think I've. I've. Every single time I post, like, oh, this is going to be great. It sucks. And every time.

[B]

The tricky thing about the algorithms now is, like, I feel like I used to be able to tell within, like, 15 minutes.

[A]

Oh, yeah, the video was going to.

[B]

Do well or not. And now it's like, nah, fuck you, Mystery Science.

[D]

Yes, well. And isn't it crazy? Because I remember, Rich, you messaged me when that one. I overlaid the Renee. Good shooting.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Because I saw both views And I was like, perfect. We've got both views. Overlaid them. And it was like, I've never had something shoot up that much. And I was like, what is happening, Rich? Is like, you've got, like, 2 million views in an hour. I was like, oh, my God, what is happening?

[A]

The video is like, 15 million now, isn't it?

[D]

Yeah, but then it's hilarious because it's like, those ones are the ones. And not that I did it for the followers. Right. But you. You see, and you're like, oh, I only got like, 100 followers from that because I'm not in it. It's truly just like an informational overlay.

[C]

Right.

[D]

You know, and of course, that's like the 15 million thing or something, but. But it was also crazy to have that. And people being like, whoa, that's. You know, I'm seeing this before the.

[B]

News when the Internet churns. Like, that is a really, really crazy feeling. The only other, like, outside of Alex Preddy and Renee goat shootings, the only other day that I think of, like, that is the day Charlie Kirk got. I have never, never seen the Internet like that.

[C]

It's absolutely.

[A]

No, I mean.

[C]

I mean, we see more and more of it now.

[A]

It's the one thing that. That when they're like, it's a dystopian state. And MAGA's like, they bought up CBS and they bought. You know, they're trying to buy up cable news. I'm like, dude, look at the times when it matters most. They can't control shit. They can't stay ahead of it. They can't keep me from seeing Alex Brady get shot. They can't keep me from seeing Charlie Kirk in seven different angles. And the screams. And there's no control over it because it's all just out there. And I think that. That it's terrible that these are the things that are happening in that environment. But it's created this thing where they can't. They can't control the narrative when. When they're doing bad things.

[C]

And.

[A]

And that's. That's the difference between now and, like, you know, you look at 100 years ago with propaganda in Nazi Germany, they control.

[B]

We're not going to print the newspapers like that.

[C]

Right, right.

[A]

And that was the only way you got the news was like, did somebody bring it to your doorstep? Now you open your phone and you can't not see somebody get murdered when they get murdered. And that was that.

[B]

So that day Charlie Kirk got shot, it was literally, like, the first thing on every single one of my feeds is like, of course. And that's. That's even on platforms where it was definitely against TOS. Like, I saw that shit on TikTok.

[A]

That's. Yeah, that's. That's unusual.

[D]

So fast that nobody could even control it. And you're like, oh, my God. I jumped on my stories, and I was like, warning everybody, like, do not. You know, if you're. I'm, like, a very sensitive person, especially with visuals like, that will stick with me. And as soon as I saw it, I was like, oh, my God. Unsee, unsee. Oh, my God.

[B]

This is a leech for the eyes. Yep.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

I got it while I was driving, and, like, my buddy just texted me with no context, and he's like, just look. And I'm like, what? It's Charlie Kirk. Oh, my God. It's just like, okay, I'm gonna do that for fucking ever. Holy shit.

[A]

The gratuitous. Yeah, yeah, the. The gratuitous violence in that video in particular, it was so obscene. I thought it was fake. I was sure that, like, yes, he. Obviously, he had been shot, but I thought somebody made an AI video because, like, that's a perfect opportunity to get. Have a. Have bullshit go viral misinformation sp. Fast in that environment. But I didn't know that that happened to a body when.

[B]

Well, that was. It was a. It was a surreal experience. I had thought the same thing, and I actually was, like, talking to my mom that night, and she works in healthcare, and she's like, Nope, that was 100 real. Like, that was exactly what it looks like. And I was like, holy shit.

[D]

So scary. You know what? It reminds me, this is going to be such a side tangent. Have you guys watched Blades of Glory anytime the last 20 years?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay. I watched it the other day. It really holds up. But in that scene, when they show the move they're supposed to do and the skater gets decapitated and it's like an AI version. That's what it felt like. I was like, oh, wait, is that real? What?

[C]

It did feel like that? Because I also had no idea that's what happens when that kind of shot occurs. Holy shit. Just the body movement was like a fucking demon or something. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, it was sick.

[B]

Because I get asked it all the time. What's your, like, method for not getting desensitized to that? Because I don't have a method. I know, right? Because I. I get asked it all the time. I'm like, I Don't know.

[D]

I don't know. So I. And I talk about, like, ADHD a lot on my page, too, and I, like, definitely have it. And I have very, like, justice sensitivity and all of these. Like, so I don't know how much of that is just my brain can't, you know, break those. But, yeah, that's a good question, I'm sure. I mean, we all do, right? You see that stuff, and the next time you see it, you're like, oh, that wasn't as bad as the one before.

[B]

Exactly. Like, I know the method that you're supposed to do, like, what the military does to avoid ptsd, which is, like, you're supposed to play Tetris, something with flashing repetitive lights. They. They literally make people play Tetris after they've been in traumatic experiences in the military. Really clinically proven to reduce ptsd.

[D]

I love Tetris.

[B]

I know, right? I literally played so much Tetris after I watched all three of those videos.

[A]

Maybe that's why none of us have PTSD after 2025. We've all been playing.

[D]

We're all playing our Tetris.

[B]

If in, like, 40 years, there's another, like, orange guy who comes up, I'm gonna be itching. I'm gonna be gone.

[A]

No, I didn't expect that topic to come up, but I saw a therapist, like, in the middle of COVID You know, parenting, working from home, hoping your kids don't die because there's a new virus. That was a stressful time, it turned out, really. But the therapist.

[D]

How rich. How old were your kids during COVID Oh, Jesus.

[A]

So when it hit, my son was two and a half, and we thought he maybe had asthma. And we had. And there was no data because there's a lot of asthma in the family. He doesn't, it turns out. But at the time, you know, there was no data on anything. And so we didn't know if, like, asthmatic people were, you know, if that was a comorbidity or. And there was, of course, no vaccine. There was not even a horizon for a vaccine the first year. And. And he was in daycare full time. My wife and I both work, and my daughter was. She's four years older, so she's. She would have been, like, six and a half. Yeah. And so we did. Yeah. Yeah. And most of us got the vaccine before we ever got it, but he did finally get Omicron right. When it came out, like, two days after going back to daycare after Christmas break January of 2021. I think it was when Omicron was on the tear and. Or 20, 22 maybe. Anyway, and he was fine. He had a high fever, but it was kind of a miracle. Not a miracle, but it worked out. But the therapist told us, or told me this trick where you, like, it's because there's like, PTSD is unresolved trauma and. And Tetris, I think, because it's like compartmentalizing. It helps your brain actually resolve unresolved things that have been just hanging out there. And so there's this like alternating padding thing that you do. And you can move your eyes back and forth, and if you repeat, like, how you feel and then how you want to feel, and you go back and forth between that, you're basically simulating REM sleep. And so then your brain compartmentalizes memories. And I haven't had, like, really bad anxiety since I only did two sessions.

[C]

Emdr, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've done it too. It's extremely effective. It's like almost nobody knows anything about it. It really helps and I.

[D]

Did you call it, Zach, what is it?

[C]

Emdr? I think it's like eye movement, something. It's about, like, reconstructing how your brain thinks about certain things. Because I'm similar to Rich, like, I'm with my daughter, like anytime she's sick, I'm like, oh my God. It's just every.

[A]

This happening.

[C]

Yeah. So. And because she, you know, my daughter's also four and she, you know, was born during COVID so it was, you know, constant concern about all that stuff. And like, it's just embedded in my head of like, this is dangerous and this. I mean, I'm not. I'm still a lunatic, but I'm less of a lunatic now thanks to this well managed.

[D]

So interesting. I need to look that up.

[C]

You should. It's great. But it's tough.

[A]

That does it.

[C]

No, I mean, it needs to be guided to some degree, but it's. Yeah, it's very effective. It's. It's. But it takes, you know, I mean, it's amazing. You got it done in two sessions, so that's. Usually needs to be more than that. So you must be really good at it.

[A]

I'm. I'm really good at everything.

[B]

He's the best.

[A]

And I want. That was a long intro discussion.

[D]

We're still in the intro.

[A]

We have three minutes. Three minutes left. I don't know the rest of reality. No, I did want to ask you because your. Your videos, you have this really well established sort of back and forth between these, like, MAGA relatives. I think you even mentioned, like, a MAGA muse or like a Republican muse in one of it. So clearly you have real subjects in your life. What I want to hear about is, like, how did this come to be in your head? Like, I think all of us, we all have. Everybody's got somebody MAGA in their family. Right. What were your first memories of experiencing people who are you? Like, what the fuck is wrong with their brain? And how do I, like, bridge the gap with that person?

[D]

That's a great question. I think so. I grew up in. I grew up a lot of places. I moved around a lot, but high school in Rochester, Minnesota. And so I always tell people that's where the Mayo Clinic is. It's this weird two worlds where you have, like, rural Minnesota versus, like, top scientists in the world. And so, thankfully, I did not go to high school or college during this time. Right. Because I truly cannot imagine what kids are going through these days. It was hard enough, you know, with, like, Obama days and just wondering, yeah. What was going on in people's minds. And, like, it just felt so much more actual politics back then. Right. People are like, I'm fiscally conservative. And you're like, well, that makes sense. And so, yeah, so I think those days were still. You know, I would battle, like, I've, you know, been a liberal since birthday, would battle with people. But it definitely did not feel that crazy until 2016. Right. When it was like, that was probably the first time I cried about politics and was like, wait, what just happened? Like, you know, and. And then it still just kind of. I made a video yesterday, I don't know if you guys saw it, about kind of the shift in anger, because so many of us are like, we've had this anger for the past decade and it suddenly feels worse. More just personal. And you're like, yeah, so I had said. You know, I think it's because we're seeing everything happen that we warned was going to happen. And those MAGA family members are like, no, I like this. Wait, no, I thought you were going to change once this started happening.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's a great person.

[C]

Yeah. So it's hard.

[D]

Yeah, it's so. It's so hard. So honestly, I mean, personally, I'm feeling even more of the struggle with bridging the gap. I always tell people I don't buy into, like, the black and white thinking. I'm like, there's always this gray area. I think that there are still this chunk of people probably much smaller than any of us wants it to be of MAGA voters who will. Who are changing. Right. And are saying like, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm shocked that this is happening. But I'm a little more pessimistic now lately being in Minneapolis where people are seeing these videos and are just like, yeah, I'm fine with this. You're like, oh, you're just not a good person.

[B]

You're a terrible human being.

[D]

You're just a bad human. Okay, got it. And a lot of it is in some of my muses, it's kind of this like, well, mistakes are going to be made. You know when you say, like, what about these people who are being murdered? What about these people wrongfully detained? What about, you know, the five year old kids? Yes. And they're like, well, mistakes are going to happen. Mistakes are going to happen.

[B]

And you're like, I'm going to punch you in the throat. That's where I go right next after.

[D]

That because I, Yeah, that's basically me bridging the gap right now. It's just my fist.

[A]

Then we'll call it a mistake.

[B]

The concept of calling those things mistakes is absurd to me.

[D]

And especially because like the back, the racist background of it. Right. Because it's like if this was a little blonde, you know, my little blonde girl, blue eyes, nobody. You would never say that yesterday, right.

[B]

That girl asked her dad what would happen if Trump raped me and then he killed her.

[C]

Yes. That's. I mean, that's insane.

[B]

That's insanity. Yeah.

[C]

Like killing your own daughter because you're questioning Trump. It's.

[A]

I mean, I didn't see this cold behavior.

[D]

Yeah, I didn't.

[B]

You didn't see that?

[C]

Some guy in Texas, I think. Yeah.

[B]

No charges filed right now.

[C]

I mean, that'll change, I really hope. But like change it was. He got into a fight with his daughter. His daughter was challenging him on Trump. And I think that Luke as the question was like, what if Trump raped me and he just killed her? Yeah, absolutely insane. You know, it's. I don't. I mean it goes back to like Rich, you made that Extinction Burst video a long time back. And like I was talking to my mom about it last night because she's. My mom is a giant fan of.

[B]

Rich and she watches everyone's biggest fans.

[D]

And she was like, mom fans are the best. Like any of my friends. Moms who love me. I'm like, I love you.

[C]

He doesn't have a bigger fan than her out there. And she, she's like, this is. The burst is too short. And I'm like, I agree. I think that's what you're feeling in that. That sense is like, everybody sort of looked at this and went, all right, this is just the last throws. And, you know, it'll be fine. It's like, no, the last throws are going to last a good chunk of time, you know, because in the grand scheme of things, I think what this is, like, me personally, the way I find optimism in this stuff is I look at it and go, all right, this has been a broken, shitty system pre Trump, like, for most people in this country, have been struggling since Reagan reconstructed how we work as a society. So, like, to me, this is awful in the short term, but it's necessitating, like, major shifts in how we go forward. And it's just frittering away support for Trump and his bullshit and every single bad thing they do. And I think it just opens the gate for, like, actual substantial change down the line. It's just a question of, like, do we trust Democrats to fucking capitalize on it and make actual functional changes where, like, Americans can look and see European systems coming in and social democracy coming in in a way that, like, changes the construction of wealth in this country and comfort and care? I think it's possible. And that's like, that's the part of my head where I'm like, I'm angry, but I'm also still optimistic. Just because of how bad he is, it is going to burn out a lot of support for this stuff.

[D]

That's how I feel. And I think if you, like, I'm assuming you guys are big fans of history and everything, and I think I always say that if you're a fan of history, I think you're a little bit more optimistic about this because you see the patterns, right? It's like, look at Germany. Like, now they have an extremely educated population.

[B]

Nuremberg did.

[C]

Yes, yes, you're right. I mean, Germany is a great analog for that. Like, yes, it's, you know, we're at 80 plus years after the fact, but you look at it and you go, I mean, they're awesome now. And then when you bring up that time, they're like, I don't want to talk about that. That's. We're not going back. Yeah, no, it's great. I mean, it's great. Great's the wrong word. But it's. It's like, we have so much potential as a country, and it's just not being realized in the worst possible way. So, like, I think Trump going the total opposite direction and going all in on it is actually like a really good medication for the problem we've been suffering from for a long, long time.

[A]

Well, and he's not making the same arguments. You know, Bush cut taxes and then said it was to trickle down. And like I think we discussed in the episode with Justin Wolfers, right? He, like, they're not making that argument, so we don't have to refute that argument anymore. They're, he's just building a ballroom with Palantir donations. Like, they're, they're cutting taxes because they want money and, and they're building shit for themselves because they want to be celebrated like that. That's, that's the whole conversation. They're, they're deporting people because they hate brown people. Like, that's it. And there, there was a, there was a story in the New York Times about a raid in Idaho and in October, and it is now making national news because ACLU opened a lawsuit. And in this lawsuit from aclu, it describes how children of white people who were at this event were just let go and given food and water. And there was like a, there was a three year old Hispanic girl who went hours without water, a 15 year old Hispanic US citizen who had his food taken away from him and thrown away. There was another US Citizen who was brown but didn't speak Spanish. And they kept yelling at him in Spanish and he was like, I don't speak Spanish. And they threw him on the ground, pinned him down, and then kept yelling at him in Spanish because they thought he was lying that he didn't speak Spanish. I'm like, do you think he knows how to say I don't speak Spanish in English without an accent, but he secretly speaks Spanish? And so it was just like, I mean, there are grotesque examples of, of racial profiling that are now coming to light. And there's, there's footage and there's video of all of this stuff. And so like, they're back to the point. You know, they're, they're just doing the things that we always secret, that we always said they were doing for, for nefarious reasons. And we were always told, well, no, that's just a fringe minority. They really want to grow the economy or they really just want to have secure borders. All of that is out now. Like all of those arguments are gone. They're not even making the arguments. We don't have to refute them. We just know this is what it is. And so in two or Three, five years, when they try to say, well, no, if we cut taxes on the wealthy, it'll grow the economy. We'll be like, dude, let's get back to the throat punching because we're all out of argument.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

That's crazy. I mean, I think a lot of it is. It's, you know, the economy, the economic stuff is at 1 in the election. But this shit that's happening with ICE is the real reminder of the danger. And, like, on that, I'm curious, like, what have you personally seen firsthand with ice? Stuff. Like, I know, like, you live in the city where these horrible things happen, but I doubt you were within 20ft of seeing those happen. It's like, what have you actually seen firsthand from this stuff?

[D]

I think it's more. So I speak with a lot of my daughters, like former teachers and current teachers. So the stuff that we've seen, right, is people actually being detained wrongfully people. We had two teachers detained who have work visas. They were immediately sent to Texas. They had to be bailed out, right? So, like, parents raised all of this money and were using it for legal fees to bail out people who are here legally. And you know what's going to be done, right? Because they're taking tens of thousands of people at a time. And you can't possibly wait for, you know, judges to get through all of that. So that along with, you know, people losing jobs, I'm constantly in contact with people. I raise money and I send them money. For rent is a big one, I think. And this isn't to, like, demean those efforts, but a lot of people jump into, like, how can I get groceries? How can I get all of this stuff to these people? And that's awesome. They need food. But they're also at risk of losing their homes because they can't pay their rent. And so it's like, I have, you know, we have someone we know who has. He's a maintenance tech and he was working three jobs. He's here legally. He's been working three jobs. We've always said, like, Jorge is the hardest worker. We know. It is insane. And he's here legally. He has lost two of his other jobs because the restaurant he worked at shut down because it is primarily Latinos and serving Latinos. And the other job of, like, nighttime cleaning, they cut, you know, for whatever reason. So I think that's the stuff that all of it pisses me off. But it's more the excuse of, like, well, if they had done it legally and you're like, okay, but these people who are brown, who did it legally, as you say, are still facing these repercussions. So, you know, that's the stuff that I see that just makes me even angrier is the blatant racism that they just can't see.

[B]

Well. And it's all operating under the pretense that they ever gave a fuck about the law anyway.

[C]

Yeah, that's true. It's. Yeah. I don't know, it's. It's so hard to watch it because like, it just doesn't seem like a thing that can actually happen and that it happens, you know, that's the. And like, I mean, for you especially being a parent, like, how is it being a parent in this space? Like, I mean, your daughter's young, but like even just having her outside the house, it's gotta feel like a different vibe versus, you know, six months ago when this wasn't happening there.

[D]

Yeah, I think like the harder thing for me, so she looks nothing like me. She's this little white blonde, blue eyed, like, kid. And I get called the nanny a lot. I'm always like, no, I actually gave birth to her. And so the privilege of that, of just being able to take her anywhere and not worry, I'm always kind of like, this is. The fact that there are kids in my city who can't leave their house right now just kills me. And I think as a parent that's, you know, I'm not in the difficult stage where I have to tell her anything. She has no idea. It's more the heartbreaking, you know, when her teachers, what is it, February In January, when things got really bad, a lot of the teachers stayed home. And we did a soft close for Thursday, Friday of the daycare. Anybody who really needed it, you know, medical professionals, whoever, they could still go. But the rest of us said, okay, we'll take those days off so the teachers can hide in their attics. Right? Like fucking insane, you know. And then her teachers were gone for a while because they're hiding at home. And so she'll come home and say, oh, you know, I heard my teachers went to kindergarten. And she's so sad. And I'm like, nope, they're just sick, you know, they'll be back. So she's unbothered by this, right? She's just kind of like, has no idea what's going on. And it's more those subtle things where you're like, I'm telling you that your teachers are sick, but they're hiding from the government. Okay, got it.

[C]

Jesus. There's some things like that are the. You just make. You just get, like, I. That comment alone just, like, hit me in the face. Like, that is real life for you guys. And, like, the scary thing is this could. That could be in a lot of cities, sooner rather than later. You know, that's.

[D]

Jesus Christ, it's awful. And I thought, you know, I've talked a little bit about generational wealth on my page, and I was talking to my husband about this yesterday is, you know, Latino kids. So let's say that their parents did come here illegally, which, you know, we know plenty of people who then their kids. We know somebody who came here illegally such a long time ago, has three kids. One's in college, one's in, you know, high school and is a stellar student. The other was a Marie. And you think about the generational wealth of that. Of these parents did what they had to do for their kids. And then a lot of Latino kids then help their parents, right? Because they're like, you did this for me. I'm gonna keep paying you, you know, and help you out with this. Well, suddenly these kids are being just decimated financially because their parents can't work, can't afford their rent. So it's just. Yeah, I was talking to my husband about that, and I was like, I'm sure that's not the point. I'm sure that's not. The whole point is to this entire group of people, you know, from every which way.

[C]

But what do they get out of it? That's the. That's, like, the question I want to ask people who support it. Like, what is actually. What are you getting out of this? You know, outside of the obvious, like, it's racism and they're racist. Like, the net outcome is negative for. In, like, every single way, society is unraveled in a way that's not positive. It's bad for the economy. It's bad for just, like, general disposition. Like, what is the net benefit of this? There doesn't appear to be one. And that's where I'm just confused about how people can support. It's like, all right, yeah, you rounded them up. So, like, what did you get for it?

[D]

You know, I think my thing. So there's a quote. I never say this, right. And I will not say it as eloquently, but it's like a society grows. When old men plant trees, they know they will never. Whose shade they know they will never sit under, right? And that quote, I've heard it decades ago. And it's always stood out to me. And so I always tell people, I'm like, look at the. What drives them. Trump wants to be the richest man. Like, he wants to have as much money as he possibly can. He does not give a shit about his kids, what happens after he's gone. He wants to be able to look at his bank account the day he dies and knows and know how rich he was. Stephen Miller, I think, is a person who's driven by hate. That's it. I think he's just like, white power. That's what drives me, and that's what I want. And so I think when you get that mix of. Of people and you can look at all of their different incentives, like Kristi Noem, she wants photo shoots. She wants to see herself on Vogue. That's it.

[B]

Those fuckers cover the seven deadly sins. They've got it.

[D]

Seriously. Seriously. And that's a great video. You should do that one. But it is. It's just like, I think people have a hard time because you're like, you can't relate to that. And so they're like, well, nobody would ever do that. They're like, well, no, you wouldn't do that, probably, but, like, the people you support would.

[A]

And R. And R. And R. Yeah, that's been the hardest thing for me is we've been told, like, since the Tea Party that, oh, this is just a fringe minority, and. And we don't, like, the bulk of Republicans don't want this stuff. And now there was a quote I learned a while back, and it was. I'll see if I can similarly not butcher it, but try to match my eloquence.

[D]

Good luck.

[A]

You. You stand for what you tolerate. And it's. Most people are just like, no, no, I don't. But when you look at it through that. But you do, because it's, It's. That's the excuse that everyone who's got some level of privilege uses for, like, well, I voted for him for the economy. Well, you're tolerating the racism, you're tolerating the deportations. You're. And now it's also, you're tolerating his economic abuses. Therefore, you stand for it. And putting that responsibility, the whole responsibility of what they choose to not refute on people makes them really uncomfortable. It's also a good standard to hold yourself against. It's. It's difficult, but it forces you to make better decisions. And most people don't. Most people just don't want to hear that. And if you tell them, they're just like, no, I'm not going to. I'm not going to hold myself to that standard.

[C]

Yeah. How do you get them to understand it? That's like, I don't get, like. Because you're right. But, like, how do you. How do you get that to be something where they hear it and absorb it as opposed to.

[D]

Well, and I was going to ask if you guys read much on, like, cult behaviors or, like, the psychology behind cults?

[C]

A little bit.

[D]

I. I haven't, and I want to read. I need to find some, like, books about it because I think it is so fascinating. Whenever I do see, I'm like, oh, yeah, okay. That is what this is.

[C]

It's. I mean, I. The little bit that I've done most of it is functionally around the feeling of a lack of safety and then providing safety. Like, that's why a lot of this, like, the rhetoric from the Trump administration, especially this time around, is really predicated on building a fear base and then going, all right, here's a foundation of A lot of. You should be afraid of immigrants. Bring crime, and, you know, all, you know, housing is going to be because of every. All this. These things that make you fear that your base level. And then you go, all right, well, this person's going to protect me from the biggest problems I have. Right, exactly. And that's. So it's like, it's the, you know, it's structured of, like, here is a giant fear that we've built for you, and here's a big pile of safety. And that is the people that are desiring that are the people that feel the most afraid. The people who fall in the cults are just frightened people. Yeah.

[D]

Fear is a huge drive. I mean, look at religion, right? People will stone their own children because they're so terrified of an afterlife that, you know, they're like, nope, I don't. All of that goes out the window. It's like, like, oh, okay.

[A]

Unfortunately, we don't have enough time to get into religion.

[D]

Let's do it. Let's start 2,000 years.

[A]

Okay, so I think we've got, like, 10 minutes left. We've talked about a lot of things, and I did ask you about, like, an. Ask me anything. And I think maybe we could end on something other than the notes that we have. We've traversed in this conversation. Let's find a happy ending.

[D]

Okay. Yes.

[A]

I like that for this. For this episode.

[B]

So I don't love that verbiage, though.

[C]

I don't either. I was just going to say the same thing.

[D]

I didn't notice until now. Rich. How dare you.

[A]

Loves happy endings.

[B]

Damn you. God damn you, Rich.

[D]

I said something yesterday really quickly to my friend who don't ask me the context because it'll be too long of a story, but I said, oh, it's like work camp. And I was like, yay. It's like work camp. And she just stares at me. And I was like, oh, nope, not like, never mind.

[C]

Whoops.

[D]

Never mind.

[C]

That's so funny.

[A]

All right, so who's got a question for Anna? I've got a couple written down, but go ahead.

[C]

I've got one I have to jump in one minute, so I'm going to do mine first. If you could only pick one creator to follow, who would it be?

[B]

That is mean.

[A]

Brutal.

[D]

That is so mean.

[C]

Shoot.

[D]

Because then it's like, do I go with an Aaron Parness, where, like, I know what's happening, or do I go with just, like, something funny? It's up to you, probably. Rich.

[B]

Hey, that's a good answer. That's a good answer.

[C]

You just won right there.

[D]

It's Rich.

[A]

I mean, no notes.

[D]

Yeah. No. I don't know. I'm going with Rich.

[C]

I love it.

[A]

Sweet answer.

[C]

My mom agrees with you.

[A]

So does my mom.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Rich's two biggest fans.

[A]

My two fans. I have a question for you. How does your husband feel about your DM inbox?

[D]

Oh, okay. That is a great question, because yesterday I got a. I'm still gonna do Benefit of the Doubt, because I'm always. I've always been the girl who's like, they weren't hitting on me. They were just. And everyone else is like, what are you talking about, Anna? And I sent him a note from a former NFLer. And I was like, look, he wants to get together for coffee and pick my brain. And he was like, anna, Anna, I.

[C]

Want to know who this is now. But I know you can't say.

[D]

I can't. But I was just like, okay, okay. So, yeah, my husband isn't on social media. He hates social media. He is more just like, yeah, anytime. Like, he's such a sports fan. So anytime someone in the sports world follows me, I send it to him. And that's pretty much it.

[C]

That's cool.

[A]

And now he regrets it for the rest of his life. He's like, never tell me about athletes sending you DMs again.

[D]

Is your inbox like, they just want to get coffee? Like, it's just coffee.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Is it, like, half deaf? Death threats.

[B]

I was going to say hate to love ratio.

[D]

Well, so I. I truly, I think get. And I hate saying this because I'm not making it a challenge, but I think I get less than most creators because I purposely don't do, like, inflammatory stuff necessarily. Like, I'm so. Like, these are the facts. So mostly I get people who are doing the, like, well, debate me. I'm like, you have seven followers. Who are you?

[B]

Like, you have seven followers and Nick Fuentes is your profile picture.

[D]

Yes. And I'm like, no, go away. And also, you don't know what debate is, so it's more of that. But honestly, I get, like, a lot more praise. You know, I feel the love in my DMs. Again, not a challenge. If you're a troll, don't come at me.

[B]

You don't want that smoke.

[D]

No, don't give me that smoke.

[A]

Luke, what you got?

[B]

Oh, if you're on a desert island, one book. What do you got?

[D]

Oh, the Bible.

[C]

Really?

[B]

I was gonna say that would have been a great. There we go.

[D]

I just knew Rich really wanted me to bring up religion again.

[A]

We could talk. We could talk. Lutheran, though. I grew up Lutheran as well. But that's another episode.

[B]

I guess a better question is, do you read, like, are you a reader?

[D]

I do, yes. I mostly read, like, I go through phases, but I've been in a long term, just smutty, like, romance novel phase. But I wouldn't want one of those on a desert island. I think. I think I would choose, like a really long. Maybe it would be like the Lord of the Rings entire trilogy. And it was.

[B]

You've got two. You are. That's two perfect answers.

[D]

There you go.

[A]

Yeah, she just read the Mordor poster off of your wall.

[B]

I think she stole it. Yeah, she.

[D]

I didn't even see it. That's actually hilarious. I do have the giant, like, actual full trilogy one, so that's so fun. I might have the Hobbit included too.

[A]

Anyway, not Harry Potter.

[D]

No, because I honestly thought Harry Potter. And then I thought, well, I don't want to read just one. I'd want to read, like, all of them. But they'd have to be goodwill because I can't buy them new and support.

[B]

You gotta buy them used.

[A]

I was gonna say, I don't think I could see J.K. rowling's name in front of me.

[B]

Like, like, scratch it out. Just a miserable human bring so much fall.

[D]

Truly. Like, truly. I think of, like, the biggest falls, and it's like Rudy Giuliani you could have just gone off into the sunset and been like, I was the mayor during 9 11, and that was it. Nope. Giant fall. J.K. rollin had quite a fall, Elon. Giant fall.

[A]

Yeah, it's the Batman quote. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

[D]

There you go. And they didn't have to live that long.

[A]

They didn't have to.

[B]

Eli literally had to make it, like, another two years.

[D]

They went straight down. Yeah.

[A]

Like, buddy, you're challenging.

[B]

Base jump.

[A]

Parse it out. Okay, I got two more questions for you, and then we'll wrap. These are, weirdly, both about death. I must have been thinking about death when I was writing the notes last night. So if you had to choose between freezing to death or falling into a volcano, which one would you pick?

[D]

Freezing, for sure.

[A]

Really?

[D]

I've always said, like, if I had a terminal illness or something, give me a funeral where you just, like, push me off onto an iceberg. Because then you just, like, fall asleep. You have time to think, and everything just kind of, like, slows down. Don't give me the volcano.

[B]

But I feel like first you got, like, the. The whole teeth chattering bit, and I don't think that's very fun.

[D]

Yeah, but that's not. I mean, I'm in Minnesota, so I feel like I have a pretty good tolerance for cold.

[B]

Fair enough.

[D]

And it's, like, it's not a. It's not painful. Like, it's annoying, and your teeth are shattering and stuff. But maybe, Yeah, I guess if I was, like, naked, I was kind of picturing myself, like, in gloves and stuff. I'm still going cold.

[A]

Minnesota winter death. Yeah, fair enough.

[D]

Okay, give it to me.

[A]

Last one. Would you rather be eaten by a hundred piglets or one great white?

[B]

There's an easy pick here.

[D]

I feel piglets are so cute. I'm going great white.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

It would take a long time.

[B]

It would take so long, and it would hurt the great white.

[D]

Yeah. Because if it was just, like, little niblets, you'd just be like, ow. Like, little ouches. But stop it.

[B]

Stop it until you have a little more.

[D]

Stop. You cute little piggies. Yeah, I'll go gray white.

[A]

But what if you had to be in the ocean? This is an improv addition to the question. What if you had to be in the Ocean for, like, 20 minutes, knowing it was coming?

[D]

No piglets.

[A]

Then you're taking the piglets.

[B]

But the piglets would take longer. There's no way piglets.

[D]

Open water is truly like, one of my biggest fears, my parents. I'm not joking here. I should probably see a psychiatrist for this. But my parents live in Costa Rica, and they have this. They live up on a hill. So you see the ocean. I can't look at the ocean for that long without just getting kind of creeped out.

[B]

And I'm like, I'm not going to throw any shade. I have a devastating phobia of birds. It cripples me. I can't be around them. Yep, can't do it.

[D]

I don't mind birds, but open water.

[B]

Yeah, We've all bastards. I hate them.

[D]

I like birds. Like pigeons. You don't like pigeons?

[B]

No. There's flying rats. That's what they are. They carry disease.

[D]

Well, this was a terrible ending to this entire podcast.

[A]

Way to ruin it, Luke.

[B]

Yeah, I take full credit for it.

[A]

Can we get Zach back?

[B]

I'll trade him off.

[A]

All right. I think we need to wrap. I'm. I've never ended an episode before. Tim always handles this, so he's got the stuff memorized. What is it? Find out something@podcast.

[B]

Findoutpodcast.substack.com Go there.

[A]

Buy our merch. I am wearing a shirt. I got to do the grand reveal that Tim always.

[B]

He did the Superman.

[A]

I know. I was.

[D]

I love your guys's design.

[B]

Thank you.

[D]

Like, a lot. Very cool.

[A]

It's chatgpt, right, Luke?

[B]

No, don't say that. Somebody will clip it, and we'll be fucked.

[A]

It's a real. We had a real artist create these.

[B]

Real artists, and our stuff is union made and printed in the US and.

[D]

Made in the US I'll promote it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Awesome.

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

Anna Connolly of Minneapolis, thank you for all of your work. Thank you for spending almost an hour with us this morning, despite the technical challenges.

[D]

Thank you. Yeah, it's been wonderful. All right. Thank you, guys. So nice.

[A]

Until next time.

[D]

Till next time.