← The Fit and Fabulous Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome to the Fit and fabulous podcast with Dr. Jamie Seaman. Hello everybody, it's Dr. Jamie. And welcome back to the Fit and Fabulous podcast. It's so lovely to have you here today. I'm super excited about today's episode. It's going to be really fun and I want to introduce you to you to today's guest chef James berry. With over 20 years in the culinary field, he started as a private chef cooking for celebrities such as Tom Cruise, Mariska Hargitay, George Clooney, Gerard Butler, Sean Puffy Combs. That one might be controversial. I don't know if we want stories about that one. Barbra Streisand and John Cusack. Most recently, he launched his first functional food product called Pluck and Organ Based Seasoning. It's the first of its kind and an amazingly easy and delicious way for people to, to get organ meats into their diet. And our family has tried it, so I can't wait to tell you all about it. James is also a published cookbook author, having co authored the recipes in Margaret Floyd's book Eat Naked and co authored the follow up cookbook, the Naked Foods Cookbook. He most recently co authored recipes in Dr. Alejandro Younger's book Clean Seven. Dr. Or Dr. My name is Dr. Chef James Barry. Welcome to the Fit and fabulous podcast.
- [01:24]
B
Hello, Dr. Jamie, I have to tell you right off the bat, you pronounce names that most people flub every time. Like Mariska Hargitay. You said beautifully. And Dr. Alejandro Younger. They always, you know, those are, those are challenging names and you did it well.
- [01:40]
A
You just fake it till you make it. It's always the risk of podcasting. You're like, okay, tell me how to pronounce your name 20 times. Okay, so tell us about your background. You obviously are an accomplished chef, but tell us about your journey. Like, why, where was the inspiration of even being a chef in the first place?
- [02:02]
B
Yeah, I, I think my mom says the best. She's shocked because I grew up in a household where you knew dinner was ready because the smoke detector went off. Like, that is my childhood. I, I always joke that it was like, even though I was born in the 70s, it was like growing up in the 50s because everything was like full frozen vegetables, meat, baked potato. It was just so standard. I, so it is kind of a miracle that I, that I went the direction I did and it was really 9 11. You know, I, I always loved cooking, but 911 really just rocked me. I mean, I kind of look at it as like our generation's Pearl Harbor.
- [02:41]
A
Yeah.
- [02:41]
B
And it just made me re. Evaluate my entire life. I. I just audited. I was like, okay, I. Life is short. We never know what's going to happen. And I need to only be doing things that are either on mission or in my heart, which I think are the same thing, or we hope. Right. And so I. I just intuitively knew to look back at my child and say, well, what did I love as a child? Because I think that was really pure, you know, essence in terms of what I'm here to do. And it was cooking. And so I went to culinary school, and it was a really beautiful experience of manifestation that, at least how I interpreted it was when I went to culinary school, it was almost like suddenly the. The clouds aligned, the stars aligned, and suddenly I was putting out 100%, but I was getting back 200. It was unreal. I would literally think, oh, I want to cook for a band. And then two weeks later, I would get a call, hey, do you want to cook for the vegan? You know, like, I, at the time, I specialize in vegan vegetarian food. They were like, do you want to cook for the Vans Warp tour? It was just. I literally would think it manifested it. And I acquired an amazing roster of clients, as you read, and I did that without any. Any service, which is a lot. A lot of times what chefs are doing is they're going to kind of service to. To get clients. And I. I was. Word of mouth in the school. The school referred me to anyone that would call for Hollywood needs.
- [04:11]
A
So there's like, agents for chefs, Is that what you're telling me?
- [04:14]
B
Yeah, there's agents for chefs and even housekeepers. Yeah, it's pretty wild.
- [04:19]
A
Wow. Yeah. Okay. So that was one of my questions. Do you have any good celebrity stories for us?
- [04:25]
B
Well, I. I signed a lot of NDAs.
- [04:27]
A
So wait, haven't they timed out?
- [04:31]
B
I know they probably have. They probably have, but I. I'm just. That is the type person.
- [04:34]
A
Okay. Don't use their names. Use their initials.
- [04:38]
B
Okay. Well, I'll say this. This is kind of a fun game, so people can try to guess, but I won't be able even to answer. But I was blessed by one of the celebrities I worked for. They had just been to some kind of shaman retreat in Latin America, and they came back with the shaman, and I just happened to be there, and myself and his assistant got blessed. That was pretty wild. Another client?
- [05:01]
A
Well, people bless their food. I mean, I'm sure, honestly, it was like, I'm going to Bless the chef, because he's about to prepare this food. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
- [05:08]
B
No, but it was. It was a little bit more far out than that. Hollywood, Hollywood is. Is a strange.
- [05:16]
A
Are they weird? Are they weird? Okay.
- [05:18]
B
It's like they're normal people with a lot of options, a lot of money, a lot of options. And so some strange things would happen. I was at one client's house when Obama won his second term. And while I was at the house, they invited me to hang out there and enjoy the festivities. And then while I was there, the client got texted by Obama saying, thank you for your support. So I was literally like, what, a few feet away from seven degrees of separation kind of thing. Like, that was pretty wild. Yeah. And then I got to fly in like a airplane when I was cooking for another client on location. Like, he. He got us into this old World War II airplane. I mean, just really cool experiences.
- [06:02]
A
Right.
- [06:03]
B
But the funniest one I can say this is when I was cooking for Tom Cruise. First of all, huge ego boost, right? The minute you say you're working for the biggest actor in the world that everyone knows, they immediately think, well, you must be an amazing cook. So right away, it was this huge ego boost. But the first question people would ask is like, so how tall is he? And I'm like, when you're standing in front of Tom Cruise, you're not thinking how tall he is. You're thinking, holy moly, I'm talking to Maverick, or I'm talking to Tom Cruise. Like, your brain is exploding. You're not thinking about what is the weather. Like, how tall is he? You know, what color is the. The walls in the room. You're not thinking about that stuff. So, yeah, so it was a fantastic.
- [06:45]
A
Starstruck. Yeah.
- [06:46]
B
Yeah. I mean, and not that I was like that when I was cooking for them. I think I became very well known as the person who just treated everyone the same, whether it was billionaires. I was cooking for a list actors. I really did. That's one of the things I loved about that one on one cooking is that I just. I just looked at them as people who needed help and I was there to help them. And I did not treat them differently. It's more everyone else around me that treated the news differently. You know, like it was stories, you know, people would be like, oh, tell me this, tell me that. And I was like, okay. But it was not really that big of a deal to me.
- [07:22]
A
Okay. So I'm super interested to know when you've worked with all these celebrities. You know, we read about it in the magazines. You know, they went vegan or they went carnivore or this is how Carrie Underwood eats before her big debut. So, as a doctor and obviously somebody with a background in nutrition, I'm fascinated by what the high performers eat. But let's be real, they're probably not cooking a lot of their own food. They have somebody dialing in their nutrition. So I'm very interested to know. You don't have to obviously name any people, but what are the diets like of these major celebrities?
- [07:57]
B
Yeah, it's funny. We think that they're going to be so unique, and really, a lot of them are just following whatever the trend is at the time. So when I first started in the industry, the popular book at the time was called the Fat Flesh Diet. And that's what people were doing. You know, it's like. And then after that was skinny.
- [08:16]
A
What was the. What was the fat flush? I mean, what. What are you cooking on a fat flush diet or skinny diet or.
- [08:21]
B
Yeah, it was low calorie.
- [08:24]
A
Low fat. Low fat, low calorie.
- [08:26]
B
Yeah, typical stuff.
- [08:27]
A
But make it taste good. Make it taste good, Chef.
- [08:30]
B
Exactly. I mean, that's what's so funny is that over the years, how what I would have to do is I would do the diet myself so I could understand it and be proficient at cooking for it. And that's challenging me. And I. I was doing like the master cleanse. You remember that one?
- [08:47]
A
Yeah.
- [08:48]
B
Oh, gosh, that one's hard. It's. It's like maple syrup and lemon juice,
- [08:53]
A
lemon, cayenne pepper and water, hot water.
- [08:56]
B
I was doing that just so I could support people in it and experience it and all that. And yet I was still cooking for clients, you know, so here I was, like, starving and just like. And that one. That one messed up my digestion so bad. But. But in terms of when I was a vegan vegetarian chef, that what was fascinating. So I went down that path to. To basically have a skill that I didn't think most chefs had, because most chefs at the time, if you mentioned healthy cooking, they would be like, oh, you steam vegetables and you grill a chicken breast. Right. There was this low fat, like, yeah, low fat, but also low flavor. Right. Just. And so. And of course, vegan, vegetarian was seen as a healthy, healthy diet then, and maybe it still is to some people, but I think we're now starting to question these things. And I just knew that if I specialized in that type of cooking and Understanding how to make it really flavorful, how to make it unique and interesting, that it might open new doors. And it really did. I mean, there were a lot of people during those first 10 years as a chef where they wanted to try these different things. But what was really powerful is that over time I was very clear on what I thought was healthy. So I was very pro real food like that everything had to be made from scratch. I definitely gravitated more towards low carb, but I was just a fan of like, you want to have, you, you want to be an omnivore, you want to have a mix of different foods and you want them to all be made from scratch. And you want to be as low sugar as possible and just low fat, ultra processed foods. And that was kind of my baseline. And then it would, it would build from there. But I did things like when I made salad dressings, which is a huge, like a lot of people undermine the dressings and the sauces because that is really where we get so many of our calories and where we also get so many of those ultra processed ingredients. And so I'm always like, if you can just do that, just make your own salad dressings or sauces or anything like that, you'll see.
- [11:05]
A
Oh, I did whole 31 time. That's a lot of work.
- [11:07]
B
It's a lot of work. But, but, but I, I actually, I, I specialize in kind of showing people on how to do it really simply. Like, I, we can even. I'll share right now with your audience. Like if you want to make your own dressing that you can apply to anything, you can do it in a, in a, in a mason jar.
- [11:25]
A
Okay. My kids like ranch dressing. Tell me, tell me, tell me how to make ranch.
- [11:32]
B
Well, what you want to do is you want to think of it as a ratio. So really what ranch is, is some kind of, you know, I mean, what, what, so what base do you normally use? Because it's usually some kind of dairy base. Right?
- [11:45]
A
So yeah, so I've played around with like Greek yogurt or. I mean that's generally what I'll use. Or I have tried some different recipes too that will use, you know, avocado oil based type, you know, a mayo or like a, you know, that's, that doesn't have canola oil or soybean oil.
- [12:05]
B
Yeah. And I mean, ultimately though, it's a ratio. So, so, so on. In a certain level you're looking at the ratio of oil to vinegar. And so what we do in the states is about a 3 to 1. So if I was making a vinaigrette, I would do three parts of whatever fat you want to use. So olive oil, let's just say, and then one part, some kind of vinegar. It could even be lemon juice, lime juice. Right. And that could be. When I say ratios or parts, I'm talking about whatever you use, you just use it equally. So, so if you're using a tablespoon, then it's three tablespoons of oil to one tablespoon of vinegar. And so really that's going to be the base of any dressing, even a ranch, you're just swapping things out. So maybe instead of that much fat, you're using, well, sorry, of oil, you're using some kind of dairy, but you're still using the equal amount of acid. Right. So, or. Or vinegar, because that's what's going to make the ranch pop.
- [13:05]
A
Right.
- [13:05]
B
So with a ranch, I would definitely use like a lemon juice. And then you're adding lots of different herbs. But what I find is when you do any dressing, the cleaner the dressing, the better we feel. And actually it just brings a fresher taste to your food. Like the difference between making a salad dressing from scratch versus buying in the store. Think about what your priority is at home and what the priority is at the grocery store. So the grocery store is focusing on shelf life. The company that's producing that product is making sure that their product is not perishable or does not go bad quickly unless it is a perishable product. But even then, they're still looking. They still then go look at price. What is, what is my bottom line? How can I make sure I'm making enough profit? Right. And so how do you do that? You use cheap ingredients. You use those, those seed oils or soy oils. You use really cheap spices. You just, you try to lower the cost of what you have to pay to make your product and then increase the price, the profit. When we're at home, we're only focused on time and health, really. Right. We want it to. We want it, or I guess, taste. So we're focused on those three, three things. We don't want it to take long. We want it to be healthy, but we also want it to taste really good. And I found in my 20 years, you know, if you want to, if you want to find a health product that becomes lifestyle, it really has to hit two markers. It's got to be delicious and it's got to be easy, but it's got to hit both of those. If it does. If it only hits one, it's not going to be life, lifestyle, it's not going to be something you're going to do forever. But if you hit easy and delicious, why would you ever stop doing it?
- [14:51]
A
Yeah. So it sounds like kind of in your journey and I don't want to jump to conclusions, so correct me, but you, you know, kind of tried all these fad diets, people doing vegan, and it sounds like now a lot more primal, I guess. Tell me kind of, you know, in your 20 plus years of experience, I mean, I feel like you have been cooking food for a really long time. What, what kind of made that, that shift for you? Because you're talking about how it needs to be healthy. Right. I mean you could have been a world class chef using Oreos, but you didn't. You're using real food. Yeah. And there, there are, there are. So, so what sets you apart in that fashion of, of, of health and, and what, what makes people function better?
- [15:36]
B
Well, two things I think that this is the reality of, of why most people change their diets is someone you love get sick and it's sad that it has to come to that, but most people just stay in that comfort zone and they will not change until it gets extreme. And so for me, my big wake up call is I got a kidney stone right out of college and I had no idea. I never experienced anything like that. Didn't know what it was. I was, I was 3,000 miles away from home at the time. I was, I was in the theater. I was doing some theater in Williamstown, Massachusetts. And I got this incredible pain, didn't know what it was. Eventually discovered it was a kidney stone. When I was in the hospital, it passed. And fortunately the first question I asked the doctor was said, how did I get this and how do I make sure I never get it again? And luckily he said, well, what did you eat or drink? If he had not asked it in that way, yeah, I wouldn't have connected that what we eat affects our health. I was in my early 20s and I still did not know that. And I Honestly, I've met 40 year olds that still don't know that.
- [16:46]
A
What was your diet like at the time?
- [16:48]
B
Well, I was just getting out of college and I was racing to finish all my tests and I was eating root, I was eating pizza and I was drinking root beer. And he said, well, did you drink any water? And I said, isn't there water and root beer? Right. I mean, we can laugh about it now, but the Reality is there are still people who think like this. They think, well, when you ask them, what do you drink? And they're like, oh, I drink sodas and juices and all this stuff. But do you drink water? And they're like, well, isn't there water in those things? It's like, you got it. You can't just do that. And. And that was my big wake up call, you know, and from that moment on, it became what? Well, how do I change? Okay, if we're. We're human and we. We follow our comforts, I mean, let's face it, most of us, when. When something goes down, we resort to our comfort foods. So my thought was, okay, how do I not fight human nature, but how do I support human nature? So how do I make comfort foods healthier? That was always my interest. And so that's how, as I ventured into becoming a chef, that's how I looked at food. Was not trying to necessarily reinvent the wheel and introduce people to whole new health paradigms in terms of that they have to change their lifestyle, but more like, how can I meet you where you are, but change the food choice you're making? Like, just shift it in some way to make it healthier.
- [18:13]
A
Fascinating. Wow. Okay, let's go back to the kids for a second. Do you have any advice? I get this question all the time from my followers. Being a mom, being a dad, having kids in my own health journey. When my husband and I started eating healthy, I've admitted this to my followers many of times. We were making ourselves salmon and steak and vegetables and preparing this super healthy meal. And then I was turning around and making my kids Mac and cheese. Not. No joke. This is like, you know, I believe you, like 2015. And as a mom, I was just like, trying to survive and, you know, you're busy and you just want your kids to eat and not complain. But then what happened was our kids would say, well, mommy, why am I eating this? And, you know, you're eating that. And then they would say, I want a bite of yours. And then all of a sudden, my kid is like, taking salmon and scallops and like, all these off my plate. That I had just this total perception in my mind as a mom that kids just liked kid food. And because I was not a. I don't even know what the word is. Food explorer. Like, as my diet was, like, very limited as a kid. Nothing against my parents, but it was like real bland, real processed. And I didn't really expand, like my palate per se, until I met my husband and then, you know, then I was trying, you know, Asian and sushi and all these different, you know, flavors and palates and, and now I pretty much eat anything. But for people listening who have, you know, picky kids, or I even have a friend that has a kid with, like, a texture problem. What, what do you tell people? How do you help these kids kind of learn how to eat healthy?
- [19:56]
B
Yeah. Well, first, you're really lucky that your kids went the other way. What most parents experience is that when you make separate foods at dinner time, their kids get very used to the foods they get. And then they continue even deeper on that path.
- [20:09]
A
Oh, don't get me wrong, they will still eat Mac and cheese and chicken nuggets, like, when given the opportunity.
- [20:15]
B
Well, so here's, here's kind of what I found really helps. And, and I, and I will fully admit this is going to sound challenging to many parents, but I want you to know that while it, it's first will feel challenging, the rewards on the back end are so much greater that until you do it, you won't, you won't know. So first of all, what you let into your kitchen, you have to be the boss of. So, so this idea that so many parents say, like, oh, my kid is addicted to Cheerios. It's like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe it. You've been letting them pick from the Cheerio bush outside. Like, don't do that. You know, like, like they act like the Cheeros just kind of just appeared in this child's life. It's like, well, no, you welcome them in. You brought them into the household. And so now that's why the kid's addicted, because it's not a natural product. It's an ultra processed product. Right? So, so I'm always telling people, like, the buck stops here. Like, we have to know, we have to kind of create that sanctuary in our kitchen of what we allow and what we don't allow. Now, initially, it's going to feel hard, particularly if you grew up with either an eating disorder or if you were shamed or if you were kind of restricted by a lot of foods. We're almost, when we grow up in those environments, we're almost conditioned to go the opposite direction, which is, you know, just allow anything to happen. Right? To not have barriers or boundaries. But kids want a boundary, like they just do. And so we have to almost not project our stuff onto them. And, and so the more boundaries you can have in that in, in the kitchen, the better. But it doesn't have to be like this shaming, yes or no kind of game. It can just be like, this is how we eat. Like, it's, it's. It doesn't. Like, the energy you put on it is up to you, but it doesn't have to be what you think it has to be. We can make it a game. We can make it light. It doesn't have to be anything but, like, this is just how we eat. So that's one thing right there. The other thing is, is you would include your kids in every aspect of the process. So from the meal planning, which I highly recommend people do, it's one of the most underutilized tools in our health arsenal is meal planning to creating, so not only picking the meals, but to creating the grocery list, to then going to the grocery store with you to then actually, like making the food. The more you include the kids in that process, the better. Because, like, they get to see, like, from raw to cooked, you know, they get to see it's suddenly it's not this unknown, scary process. They're seeing the entire process, and thus they feel more empowered in it. And when you're, when your child feels more, More empowered, they're more willing to try things. Right. Because a lot of picky eating comes from fear. I was an extremely picky eater, and, and it absolutely was my way of controlling my environment. That's absolutely what it was. And then the third thing would be what we've kind of already mentioned, which is don't do separate foods. Like, you cook what you want your family to eat.
- [23:17]
A
Yep.
- [23:18]
B
And, and the reality is, and I, and I, I have two daughters. They're 12 and 8. We went through this is. At first, your child might make bulk. They might be like, I don't want to eat this. And, and we say, well, that's okay. We don't shame her. It's like, it's fine if you don't want to eat it, but we're not making another meal, and this is your next meal, and it's going to be far better now than it's going to be tomorrow morning. But in a sense, like, some people might see that as like, oh, you're being abusive or you're being so strict. It's like, well, no, we're teaching our child to not food. You know, because first of all, we all live. You know, anyone that thinks that they can just waste food, that is a privileged thought. There are most people, the majority of people are living paycheck to paycheck. And that is why they're eating at places like McDonald's, because they can get a full meal for five bucks than going to the grocery store, even though technically you can get more food when you make it from scratch. But they don't have the time. They don't have that lifestyle right. Set up. So they're buying what they can with the money they have, and they're living paycheck. Paycheck. So it's a very, like, health should not be for the wealthy, but it's typically is. And we have to kind of own that.
- [24:30]
A
So.
- [24:31]
B
So for my money, it's like, we don't waste food. We honor the process of, like, this is. The amount of people and journey that this food went through to get to our table has to be honored. And technically, we are all dishonoring that. And I mean that. We are so disconnected from our food sources. And Bill Schindler, who.
- [24:57]
A
I was literally about to say Bill Schindler's name.
- [24:59]
B
Like, no kidding.
- [25:00]
A
It's literally. And then it just came right out of your mouth. Yes, yes.
- [25:04]
B
Bill Schindler, who's a professor of archaeology, has a great book called Eat like him, and he's a friend. His quote, we are the only species in the world that looks to someone else to tell us what to eat. There are. There are over 8 million species, and we are the only one that says everything right there. We. We are so disconnected. And so. So for my money, it's about, how do we reconnect? And it starts in the home. We have to start from, like, even when you're wanting to get pregnant, you should be eating a variety of foods, cultured vegetables. You should be getting flavors into you. Because the child's palate is shaped in utero, right? So then from there, when you. Then finally, then.
- [25:44]
A
And their DNA and their health outcomes. It's called fetal programming. It's fetal programming.
- [25:50]
B
It is all there. And it starts then. So you have to be thinking about this then. Not like, you know, when they're three years old and. And you want to be getting those. Those different flavors and just shape their palate. And then when they're. When they're actually able to start eating, you also want to continue that. Because the reality is, is when we have picky eaters, I look at flavor as. As music, you know, as notes. So if you think about it, we are stuck in the cords of salty sweets. That is where our. That. That's where we're stuck. When we are.
- [26:22]
A
We've been programmed. We've been Programmed. I mean, program.
- [26:25]
B
But also our palates are conditioned towards salty sweet. Because everything in the US Processed foods. Yeah, it's also.
- [26:31]
A
I mean, it's just all of it.
- [26:34]
B
So you're literally stuck in those tones. And so the way to break free physically, literally, to break free of the palate is to start to introduce other tones. So there's sweet, there's sour, there's bitter, there's umami. That's the fifth unique taste. And so those three are what you want to make sure that you're introducing into the palette. So you want to be doing that when you're wanting to get pregnant, when you are pregnant, when you have had, you know, your breastfeeding, you want to be doing all that through the entire process. And then, of course, with your introductions of foods. So that might look like you're simply taking some kraut juice, so some fermented kraut juice, and you're simply adding a little bit of it to the mashes you're giving your baby, you know, and then you're introducing those sour foods. Really simple things. Yeah, but those are the things I would immediately do for anyone that's dealing with a picky eater is just start introducing new flavors, but do it very gently. Like, don't. Don't shock the child. Like, don't.
- [27:36]
A
It's real dilute. Real. Yeah.
- [27:38]
B
Like, think of it like the way if you were feeding a dog new food, you would give 95% of the old food and 5% of the new food, and you would slowly change those ratios over time to not disrupt the dog's digestive process. Do the same thing with your kid.
- [27:54]
A
Fascinating. Yeah. Bill Schindler. I mean, I knew who he was, but I had the opportunity to listen to him speak at Low Carb Denver a couple years ago, and his presentation was just absolutely phenomenal. And he's showing, you know, pictures of traditional cultures and. And how, you know, even with grains, it was like the mortar and pestle and the animal foods, they actually had to hunt and they had to process the meat, and they had to. And we've gotten so far away from that that we just don't even have any realization. The level of processing that happens with our food and the level of appreciation that can come when you understand what that process is like and when you've actually, like. I grew up in a community where people hunted every fall, you know, mostly deer, but I have some family members that have. That have gamed, you know, elk and other things. And. And it's just like when you've literally like, hunted the animal and processed it and cooked it and prepared it, it's just a whole difference than just picking it up off the shelf at the. At the grocery store.
- [28:57]
B
Absolutely. Well, and Bill and I. One of the reasons I. One of the many reasons I love him is we share a very similar perspective on. It's not about, like, there's a lot of focus on what are you eating? You know, are you only eating meat, are you eating some vegetables, Are you vegan, are you vegetable? Like, we're so focused on the what, but in our. The way Bill and I talk about is I'm more interested in the how. How are you eating. So a lot of people will kind of demonize, demon fi. Or how. Demonize. Demonize. That's the word.
- [29:27]
A
Demonize.
- [29:28]
B
Yeah, there we go. They will demonize vegetables. But if you take the vegetable or the grain or the nut and you actually, like, prepare it differently, like you pre.
- [29:38]
A
You soak it, you sprout it, ferment, soak, sprout.
- [29:42]
B
You're doing things to that, the properties of that food, and you're unlocking it, you're making it so you not only can get more nutrition from it, but so that's easier, easily to digest. So when we focus on these kind of like black and white scenarios, I don't think we're really being true to our DNA or. Or as built, you know, our. Our evolution, if you want, if you will. Because as he points out, what we sacrificed. So as our brain grew bigger, what we. What we lost was our digestive process. So we used to be able to handle a lot of these things when we were foragers and whatnot. But when we became more omnivores and technically even more carnivores, and started getting three things in our diet that we did not previously get, which was blood, organ, meats, and fat. So as we got those in our diet, our brains got bigger because we got, you know, these basically multivitamins, you know, in the form of nature, and. And brains got bigger, but our digestive process got smaller. So really what it enables you is it enables you to use your brain to create the digestive process outside of your body. And that's what, like, fermentation is, for example. So how we do these things, how we prepare these foods are, I would say, even more important sometimes than the actual food you're eating. Are you ready to unlock your full potential? I want to introduce you to the Fit, Healthy and Happy podcast, a powerful resource to transform your life today. With expert interviews, practical tips and inspiring stories, this podcast is your roadmap to lasting wellness. Here's what a listener has to say.
- [31:26]
A
I used to struggle with my health, but this podcast changed everything. It's like having a personal trainer, nutritionist and life coach, totally for free.
- [31:35]
B
With over 20005 star reviews, we're a podcast you can trust. The fit, healthy and happy podcast, available now wherever you get your podcasts.
- [31:50]
A
James, what is the lingual neural response?
- [31:53]
B
Yeah, this is, this is fascinating. So th, Once I. Once again, this is something Bill talks about as well. So, so our bodies, you know we're Homo sapiens, right? So that's about 300,000 year old body really is where, where we, the current body we have has been in development for over 3,000 years. Well, there is a process of communication that happens in our body. That is how we instinctively knew what to eat, right? And you can imagine it started with our eyesight maybe, or actually it probably started with our hearing. You heard something drop in the forest. You turn to look, you saw something plump on a tree. You, you moved closer to that tree. As you got closer to your eyes, saw vibrant colored thing. You didn't even know what it was. But as you got closer now your nose took over and there was a smell associated with it. And then that smell inspired you to pick it up and grab it. Your hands are now touching something, it's plump. What is this thing? Now you put it towards your mouth, you're biting it, the juices are flowing down your mouth, your taste buds are taking over. They're giving you. Every part of your senses, is giving you communication this entire time. Should I eat this or should I not eat this? And historically, bitter tape flavors were poison and, and sweet flavors meant that it was nutritionally abundant. Now it's obviously there are some, there is some gray area within that because there are bitter greens, for example, there's things like that. But for the most part, our, our communication pathways, these kind of neural pathways, what we call the lingual neural response, which is basically the act of eating your food, mindfully chewing your food, and allowing enough time for your body to communicate to your brain, do I want more or do I want to stop or do I want less? Whatever it is. And so when we are swallowing as many supplements as we are when we are speedily eating our food and standing up and kind of not in that relaxed state of eating, we are basically bypassing this, this neural response that has been shaped for over hundreds, thousands of years, right? And so we are missing out on what does our body want, need? And I truly believe it's one of the ways that we can re tap. I don't think we're ever going to get back to our true instinct of what we originally had around what we should eat. Because I think we're too manipulated to your point. Like we're, we're the marketing behemoth that is around us is manipulating, manipulating.
- [34:21]
A
Oh yeah, we're just, we're drowning in it.
- [34:24]
B
So we're never going to get to that pure state. However, we can get closer. And for my money, if I were to build like a food pyramid, how I would build it is at the top of that pyramid would be looking, looking for basically these flavors, natural flavors. So when I say natural flavors, I'm not talking for anything added, I'm talking about what you find in nature. Okay, so you're looking for very natural flavors. And then in the middle of the triangle you're looking for really whole real foods. So ancestral foods. Anything that is like just a nutrient dense food, right? Naturally nutrient dense, not fortified, not ultra processed. And then below that, and this is the part that rarely anyone talks about is we just need to mindfully eat. So we need to be making choices where the food that we're allowing into our mouth, we're being mindful about it. Because I will be the last one to tell anyone. I do not want to shame anyone around their diet. Yes, I might not be vegan vegetarian, but I've cooked to be vegan vegetarian. I've supported vegan vegetarians in my life. And what I've learned is that we need the dignity of our process. We need, we can't just be told, eat this, don't eat that. We need to experience it. And there's one person in our, in the relationship of our existence that will never lie to us, that will never steer us the wrong way, that is always with us and it's our body. And so all I ask people is follow the diet you want to follow. But don't just use your head or your mind to convince yourself of what you should be doing. Let your body direct you. If it's not working, your body will tell you you won't sleep well, your skin will break out, you'll have headaches, you'll, I mean you just name any chronic illness that comes, if that is happening to you and you're feeling bloated all the time, whatever it is, you're not, you're not, you're not eliminate. There's no elimination pathways that are open you're not peeing regularly, you're not pooping regularly, or your poop looks weird, it's discolored, or it's clumpy, it's hard. Like, this is an indication that your body's saying, hey, what you're doing is not working.
- [36:28]
A
Yeah, well, it's even like the, the, the science of the placebo effect. Like, if your brain believes, you know, like your connection believes, like, this food is healthy. It's, it makes me feel good. It makes me, you know, when you stop to like, think through that, then it's more likely to happen. But when, when you're so mindless, you know about it. And then it's like when I sit in a clinic, James, and I talk to patients and they're like, oh my gosh, doctor. Like, I'm so tired and I have no energy and I have no sex drive and, and my life is just like awful. And then you ask them what their diet's like and they're like, oh, well, definitely room for improvement. Like, they can't even make the connection, you know, it's like they're so separate. And so I, like, I hear what you're saying and people just never take the time to like, look at what they're about to put in their mouth and say, like, is this good? Is this going to make me feel great? Is this going to give me the energy to do what I need to do today? Is this going to make me feel powerful? You know, it's like we're so just in two separate worlds.
- [37:30]
B
And then just look at your body. Like, look in the mirror and honestly, look at yourself. Like, do I have dark circles under your eyes? Is your skin breaking out left and right? Are you losing your hair? Are you, are you feeling bloated? Your face look bloated? Like, these are all indications. And what's beautiful about the human body is it's so resilient. You know, you could be eating like crap for so long and your body will still maintain itself. But what's beautiful is that when you do change, your body reacts really quickly. Like back in the day when I used to have a meal delivery service in la, we used to do this, this sugar control detox, which was basically a low carb, two week diet. We would pull out anything that was sweet. We would pull out all grains. Most starches, like, we would basically just have animal protein, good fat, and then some resistant starches and some vegetables. And in two weeks, people lost. Men lost between 20 and 25 pounds, women lost between 12 and 15 something right around there. And everyone felt not only better but their palate changed. So now when they had one glass of wine, they could barely finish it. Whereas when before they started the two weeks they could drink three glasses of wine and not feel anything or not not really realize that it was how it was affecting their body.
- [38:55]
A
I'll tell you what, I went one year without alcohol and that was the greatest experiment ever. Tell us about luck. Tell us about how we can get more organs into our diet. Because when you want to talk about palata palatable, back in the day I was like eating 1oz pieces of raw liver and I literally, I would just choke it down because but it did, it made me feel amazing. And I have an MTHFR mutation. So I was just like convinced that this like activated folate in its raw form, it literally was like a five hour energy drink. But I used to look at my husband and I was like, this tastes like a dirty gym sock. And so the thought of putting the liver into any of my meals, I was just so averse to it, but I just choked it down. So I think this is such a fantastic invention. So tell people about pluck and tell people about putting organs into your food.
- [39:54]
B
Absolutely. So when I had kids I became very so even though I was cooking for all these sleds. But eventually I had kids and I was like, okay, how do I get nutrient dense foods into my kids diet? Easily. Because as you've mentioned as parents, we're just, we're done at the end of the day, like you, we already work.
- [40:10]
A
You sprinkle the pluck on their Mac and cheese, that's what you do and you feel better.
- [40:15]
B
You feel better as a parent, like
- [40:17]
A
a dog 5% of the time.
- [40:21]
B
But so pluck is basically we took freeze dried powdered from 100 grass fed cows, liver, heart, kidney, spleen and pancreas. So five organs, same thing you find in the supplements, the encapsulated organs. But what we're doing is we're trying to get you to eat it because as I mentioned, that lingual neural response, I want you to eat it because I want your body to tell you how much you do or do not want. And then the second thing is I wanted to make it taste good if you are going to eat it. And that's so adding the spices and herbs to it that we do with pluck, that makes it taste better. And then the third thing, which is the big hurdle is people, a lot of people don't know how to cook it or don't want to cook it. And so with pluck anything you can salt, you can pluck. So there is no cooking necessary. You could, as you mentioned, you could have Mac and cheese from a box and you just sprinkle it on there and you feel a little bit better because your kids are getting their organ meats in. You could get pizza to go and sprinkle it on the pizza. Like we literally sprinkle it on anything from popcorn to pizzas to Mac and cheeses, to salads, to meats, to, to oysters. I mean, you literally can put it on anything. And so what happens when we have it in such a versatile, easy and delicious way? And this is going back to that. I want health to be a lifestyle. I, I really don't like things that are temporary. I don't like things that are snake oil. I want things that are natural and I want things that we're going to do a little bit each day, but we're going to do it so that we don't have to think about it. And we're going to do it effortlessly, but we're going to get big gains from it. Those are the things I want to invest in. And so organ meats to me are mother nature's multivitamin. It's, it's a completely natural, real food. When we freeze dry, it, it's, it's basically raw frozen, just like sushi. So it's supporting the health of that food, but it's not necessarily cooked. So it's very nutrient dense and freeze drying is not an exact kill step, but it does have a little heat to it and then it's powdered. So it's as nutrient dense as it can be. I like to use it as a finishing salt. But to your point. So you, you had trouble eating the liver, but how, how was pluck for you?
- [42:35]
A
Yeah, no, it's been great. We. So my husband and I have done bodybuilding off and on. And one thing we do for meal prep is we cook ground beef and we'll cook like literally six pounds, four pounds on Sunday and kind of like, you know, separate it out for the week. Well, what we always used to do is say, okay, hey babe, which seasoning do you want this week? And we'd use like, you know, some kind of barbecue or this or garlic or zesty. And then when we got pluck, I was like, okay, this is even more amazing because now we can get some flavor and we can put some organs in here. And so, but my kids, the night that we make it fresh. They have, like, a big bowl of it, too. And I'm like, I wonder if they'll even notice. Like, I didn't even tell them, you know? And I'm talking, like, I put a pretty decent ratio. Like, you know, when you're talking about four, six pounds of ground beef, I mean, I'm putting, like, the whole bag in there.
- [43:21]
B
Yeah.
- [43:22]
A
And. Yeah. And they were like, oh, this is good. You know, like, didn't even notice it. And so then, you know, we'd start to sprinkle it on other things, and we'd put a little bit on the steak or put a little bit on the veggies. And. And it was like. It was like nobody tasted it. And so for me, like I said, full admission, I was like, the mom cooking my kids Mac and cheese. Like, if I can kind of just like. Because the only way I ever used to know how to do that was to put something in a smoothie, you know, put some fruit. You talked about it. Sweet or salty, like, right. Cover it up with some fruit, and we can get, you know, whatever it is in. But. But my kids have just done such an amazing job of kind of. They're. They're crushing it. Okay. Better than I ever did at their age. And we've always come at it just from, like, an educational perspective, you know? Like, we've never said, like, Mac and cheese is a bad food, even when I know the ingredients are just shit. But we just say, like, well, how do these things make us feel? And it's been very interesting to watch them. Like, one time, that's just coming to the top of my mind. We went to a movie theater, and they had, like, M&M's and popcorn, and we're leaving, and they're like, mom, my stomach hurts. Like, I don't feel good. Well, think about what you ate. And then when they start to make those connections for themselves, it's just amazing to watch it unfold, because I'm not dumb. Like, they're gonna leave my house one day. And, you know, if I am very militant about this, this is bad. This is good. You know exactly what they're gonna do. They're gonna go off to college, be like, oh, I'm on my own now. I'm gonna eat pizza, because she told me I couldn't. And so anyway. But we have. I mean, my kids eat ice cream. My kids eat pizza sometimes. Like. But the vast majority of time, you know, we're trying to do the best we can at home in our own kitchen.
- [45:03]
B
So I mean, okay, so that is the way to do it. I, I, I, that's how we do it in our household as well. It's like you, you, you're just teaching them to be mindful, you know, to be mindful of how the food affects their body. Because when they leave your home, you don't have control anyway.
- [45:17]
A
Yeah, yeah. And it was interesting, too. I grew up on school lunches, and my kids heard me talking about the school lunches. It was for an interview I was doing. It was actually when I was going to be on Dr. Phil. But they, like, kind of made this realization, like, how bad the food was at school. So. But the rule in my house is if you want to take your own lunch for school, you have to make it yourself. I don't, I'm not the, I don't sit at the kitchen counter in the morning making three lunches with a cute little note in the box like, that's I don't have time. Right? I'm like, worry about getting my own lunch. But it also for me was like, an appreciation for them of like, okay, if I'm going to take lunch, I'm going to, like, I'm going to pack my own lunch and I'm going to decide, like, what's in here. And like, now I'm responsible for what's in my lunchbox. So it's just been really cool to watch that unfold. Okay, so I have some, I have a few just, like, quick, more like rapid fire type questions for you to end this out. Do you cook with electric gas or induction? You only get one.
- [46:19]
B
I cook with gas. I'm old school in that way. Yeah.
- [46:23]
A
Okay. We had, of course, when my husband and I were young, cheap rental property, had electric. And when we built our house, we put in induction and I fell in love with it. And then we had a tragedy when somebody dropped something on our induction cooktop and broke it in half. And so I had to make the choice of do I switch to gas or do I stick with induction? And we stuck with induction. But we just bought a second vacation home this year that has gas in it. And so now my only complaint is that it takes a lot longer to boil water gas.
- [46:58]
B
But what is, but which are you favoring? Like when? Because of course, yeah, induction is faster. But are you, why go back to gas because you like it better?
- [47:07]
A
I, well, no. So now I, now I own two homes and I have gas at one home and induction at the other. And so now I'm like, living in, like, the World of compare and compare and contrast. But I don't know. You know, I'm still.
- [47:18]
B
You don't.
- [47:18]
A
You know, I'm. I'm still. I'm still an induction lover, but I'll. I'll let. I'll let you cook with guests because you're way more talented than that. I am in the kitchen.
- [47:26]
B
Well, I should. I should kind of say that I don't have the option of having induction yet. You know, I mean, so I think whatever you cook with is great. I mean, it's really based on, like you just said. Well, what's your time frame? You know, what fits your lifestyle? Yeah, I'm not saying I'm pro gas, because I'm hardcore gas. It's more just that's. We rent the home we're in right now, and that's. That's what they have.
- [47:50]
A
That's what it has. Yeah. We actually did. We. We actually made the decision mostly as parents with really young, tiny children. When we built the house, the girls were really little and we just thought induction was safe because could lock it and it didn't. The glass wasn't as hot, you know, several minutes after you stopped cooking. So. But. Okay, second one. What's the best kind of cookware to cook with? Cast iron, stainless steel, nonstick, whatever.
- [48:17]
B
There's not a fan stick. Even the green non sticks. I just, I just, I've never felt like anything that can scratch off to me is not good. So I am a big fan of stainless steel and cast iron. And I. And I change. I use them. I don't always just use one, because if anyone doesn't know, with cast iron, you are getting iron leached in your food, which can be good, but it also can be bad. So you got to be. You don't want to always be using the same one. So I kind of follow what I'm feeling that day and depending on what I'm cooking, but I interchangeably use both. And I. And I'm kind of like that with a lot of things I don't. I know, like, for example, in the weightlifting industry, you kind of stick to the same types of food. You kind of. You stick to very. You keep certain things very. What would you say? Homogeneous.
- [49:08]
A
Less variables. Yeah, like less variables.
- [49:10]
B
You're focusing on other things. And I. With cookware and toothpaste and a couple of things, like, I'm always like changing them up because I just think that what works certain things have different properties. And it's important to sometimes get some from one and some from Another that's. But I couldn't. I don't have any science to that. It's more just a instinct.
- [49:31]
A
Okay. All right, two more questions. Next one. What is your favorite fat to cook with tallow? Ghee, Butter, lard, canola oil.
- [49:41]
B
I think it's a. I think it's a tie. It's a tie for ghee and lard. Those are my favorite. I love ghee because it's. It's just like when you look at a fat that's been around forever, like, ghee has been around for over 5,000 years. It is. Is a tried and true fat. Now, you could say the same for tallow and lard, but I use them for different things. So I'll share this, because I think this is. If anyone listening is curious, you got to try this. So if you're making potatoes, so what we call sometimes roasties or roasted potatoes, you use duck fat. It is almost like duck fat and the potato were destined to be together because it is so amazing. So highly recommend you try roasting potatoes in duck fat. So I always use duck fat for that, but I use ghee for anything that I want to have a buttery flavor, and then I use lard for anything that I want to have. Sort of. Typically, I'm using the. The leftovers from bacon, so I use. It's got a smokiness to it, so anything that I want that flavor, I'll use lard. But those are the two I mostly use.
- [50:46]
A
We were on a trip this year down in the Caribbean on a. Like a. Like a boat, and it comes with a captain and a chef. So this chef is, you know, cooking all these meals for us, and he had a. Like a. What do they call it? Like, a Michelin notation or like, whatever for one of his recipes. But it was a handmade tortilla that he cooked in duck fat, and it was a fish taco. I have never. It was, like, one of the most delicious thing. I get why it got an award or a notation or, like, whatever it was. But that was one of my first experiences with, like, this duck fat is, like, making this whole thing. It was so delicious. It was so delicious.
- [51:27]
B
It's a fat that more people should be using because it's. It's just delicious. And usually it's really clean. Like, the duck industry is pretty untainted, as far as I know. Now, if you're baking, like, so leaf lard is very specifically the kidney. Kidney fat from the pig. And it's like. It's. It's where Crisco came from. So they historically used to use leaf lard to bake. And then Crisco came out, and they tried to replace the lard. But ultimately, leaf lard is the best fat to use when you are interesting because it's so clean. It has no flavor, but it. It cooks beautifully. It makes things flaky. It's light. It's just. It's such a beautiful fat.
- [52:08]
A
Okay, I'm gonna have to tell our friends, because I was one of our health conscious friends on our street. He was, like, kind of buying into this whole lifestyle. But he loved his grandmother's chocolate chip cookie recipe. And so when the grandkids would come over, that was, like, what they did. Well, one day he said, hey, I'm gonna replace the Crisco in here with beef tallow and see if anybody notices. And they actually liked the cookies better. And so now he's, like, really proud that it's this, like, next generation like, took grandma's cookie recipe, put in beef tallow instead of Crisco, and, like, they think it's even better than it was before. So sometimes you just don't know until you play around with it.
- [52:45]
B
Well, totally. And I think that that is also something like, that's what happened when kids eat pluck, for example. They, like, get addictive around it. And I think it's because our bodies know, like, when you give it that kind of older, kind of natural, ancestral food, the body. Just like I remember the first time I had bone broth. It was almost like my body curled in around it. It was like, what is this golden elixir you're feeding me? You know, it was just. It felt so primal and so good. And I just. I think that that's what happens is you switch out these kind of ultra processed foods, and you get this amazing purity inside your body from the.
- [53:23]
A
Absolutely.
- [53:23]
B
The food.
- [53:24]
A
Absolutely. Okay, last question. You're gonna die tomorrow. You get one last meal. What is Chef James Barry going to have? What is his absolute favorite dish?
- [53:37]
B
It's so funny. I've thought about this before, and you know what it is, is, is if I knew I was dying, it's like, for me, the enjoyment of food is just imagining I could do lots of different things. So it's not just the next day, it's the day after that and the day after that. It's the lifetime, right? So for me, if I just had one food, I'm like, well, I. I love, like, a really good steak. Like, I really do. And. And I love it. With what. How I make it is. I would. I would get the, you know, filet mignon, probably, like, a really nice cut. I would compound butter. So I would only do a little bit of salt, maybe a little pepper. A bit of pepper. I would lightly grill it, but I would compound the butter. And I actually love to compound it with plucks. I'm one of those people that I. Yes, I'm the owner of the food, but I do use it. I love it. And so I would take, like, the original or zesty garlic, and I would compound the butter, and then I would put a little slab of that butter right on that. That. That steak as I was eating it and just let it melt. And I honestly, I think that would be the most. I mean, you can't eat it. It's one of the most amazing flavors.
- [54:44]
A
That sounds amazing. I one thing, when I have time that we will. My kids love, like, a fermented sourdough. And I'll whip. I'll take the time, and I'll actually, like, whip butter. And I just thought about that. I'm like, dude, what if I put a little. I've never done it before, like, put a little pluck in the butter as I'm, like, whipping it, like a flavored. Flavored butter.
- [55:02]
B
Because the umami and the organ meats just make food pop, as you probably know. And it's like, you just can't beat it, you know? And. And. And I'm like, I said, I'm a huge fan of. Of making sure that if I'm choosing to eat food, I want it to be good, and I want it to be healthy and easy. And so it just hits all those markers for me.
- [55:23]
A
Love that. Love that. Well, Chef James Berry, tell people where they can find you and where they can find pluck if they want to try it out.
- [55:29]
B
Yeah. So you'll find us on socials, and the pluck is at eatpluck, and the my personal is at Chef Jamesbury. And then you'll find us on Amazon. Simply do a search for organ meat seasoning or pluck. It should pop up, and then you can find us on our website at eat. Sorry. So it's eat pluck.com.
- [55:50]
A
i love it. Well, thank you, guys. Thanks for listening. Share this with all your family and friends. We always appreciate you, and we will catch you on the next episode. Did you guys love that last episode of the fit and fabulous podcast? Well, of course you did. And I want to keep bringing you the most amazing content from the most incredible people and you can help me by subscribing to the Doctor Fit and Fabulous Channel. You guys know where the button is? Just click it. It's the Doctor's orders.