“Change Is Coming”

Summary

The Five — “Change Is Coming”

FOX News Podcasts | July 20, 2026
Hosts: Dana Perino, Greg Gutfeld, Kennedy, Harold Ford Jr., Charlie Hurt

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Main Theme

This episode of "The Five" grapples with two central themes dominating American politics: the escalating internal battle within the Democratic Party between moderates and the socialist-progressive wing, and the U.S. military response to Iranian aggression under President Trump. The panel debates ideological clashes, party strategies, populist figures like Bernie Sanders and AOC, controversial political rhetoric, and the reputational fallout of performative politics—all while responding in real time to breaking news and memorable moments in pop culture and sports.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Democratic Party's Identity Crisis

(00:03–14:46)

Overview:

• The episode opens with sharp criticism of the Democratic Party’s far-left socialist wing, especially their proposals (abolishing the Senate, a congressionally chosen executive, mass amnesty for undocumented immigrants).
• Panelists cite public pushback from prominent progressives (Bill Maher, Van Jones) and younger leftists’ growing influence.
• Harold Ford Jr. and the rest of the hosts express worry over the Party's direction, fearing alienation of independents and traditional Democrats.

Key Insights & Quotes:

• Charlie Hurt: “Ideas that are literally insane, nutty, moronic, dangerous, bigoted, are not progressive, they're regressive, and they should not be in our party.” [00:43]
• Greg Gutfeld (on DSA organizing power): “The DSA is building a bench... 120,000 members, chapters in all 50 states, extremely organized. They can turn out in low-turnout elections.” [07:47]
• Kennedy: “All of these DSA talking points are not ideas. They are marching orders. This is an orthodoxy. And if you don't march in lockstep, you are out of the party.” [06:31]
• The panel critiques the left’s strategy shift from debating policy to attacking political opponents personally, referencing Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals.

Memorable Analogies & Moments:

• Kennedy’s "Trojan Horse" analogy: “The commies have a giant saddle, and they're on the horse... burning the fort down. Give us a can of kerosene; we will light the Constitution on fire.” [06:15]

Important Timestamp:

• [10:25] — The team dissects the evolution in Democratic strategy: from policy debates to “personalization, personal attacks is your only tactic.”

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2. U.S. Military Action Against Iran

(15:40–25:28)

Overview:

• In response to attacks on U.S. troops and heightened Iranian aggression, President Trump orders ongoing military strikes, vowing a strong response.
• The hosts question the effectiveness and endgame of airstrikes, debate the value system differences between nations, and weigh the merits and optics of ground intervention versus negotiations.

Key Insights & Quotes:

• Dana Perino: “Is it a mistake, a misconception that other countries like Iran, their leaders hold the same value over human life that we do?” [16:35]
• Charlie Hurt: “The Iranian leadership definitely misread President Trump... All you’re doing is hitting the hornet’s nest and he is going to respond with greater ferocity.” [18:40]
• Kennedy (on policy options): “Once you've started something like this, the way you finish it is with American ground troops… At some point, it gets to be immoral.” [24:04]
• Harold Ford Jr.: “The only other option is another deal. And the deal is probably...worse than the deal Obama struck because you’re going to have to unfreeze all of that money if we don’t want to put troops on the ground.” [25:02]

Memorable Moments:

• The group pays tribute to the fallen U.S. soldiers by name and discusses the larger implications for American service personnel.
• Heated commentary on the “immoral” prospect of more young Americans dying overseas.

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3. AOC and Performative Politics

(25:28–33:15)

Overview:

• Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is mocked for adopting a “phony Southern accent” while stumping in Memphis, sparking debate about authenticity, identity politics, and the perils of pandering.
• Discussion pivots to the nature of AOC's appeal, her transition from perceived "authenticity" to “typical politician,” and her lack of policy debate experience.
• Criticisms of populist progressives’ substance, referencing the failed Amazon deal in NYC and AOC’s stance on Israel.

Key Quotes:

• Charlie Hurt: “At the end of the day, she's a faker... because as we were talking about earlier, she's never had, like, normal debates about, like, the issues and when she does, it doesn't go very well.” [26:35]
• Greg Gutfeld: “The fakery is what people will not like about her... Trying to mold herself into something that she is getting in her head.” [27:55]
• Dana Perino (on AOC’s repetition): “She mentions behind six times and all I'm thinking about is her behind...almost everything she says isn't memorable. Except for when she mentions her behind.” [31:21]

Important Timestamps:

• [26:09] — Panel watches and critiques AOC’s accent at a Memphis rally.
• [30:37] — Reminder of AOC's opposition to the Amazon jobs project.

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4. Polarizing Rhetoric: Don Lemon and Accusations of ‘Nazism’

(33:33–36:56)

Overview:

• Don Lemon is lampooned for comparing Trump’s MAGA movement to Nazis “without the Holocaust and all that stuff.”
• Hosts decry loose Nazi analogies, question media egos, and reflect on political immaturity in public discourse.

Notable Quotes:

• Dana Perino: “He can’t even do demonization right. You don’t learn anything about Trump, but you learn about his ego, his insecurity, his desire to be liked, and his low IQ.” [35:17]
• Harold Ford Jr.: “People in politics should stop talking about Nazis. It doesn’t bode well for anybody.” [35:56]

Memorable Moment:

• Kennedy jokes that people encouraging Don Lemon to run for president must be “trolling him.” [36:12]

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5. Lighter Moments: World Cup, Pop Culture, and “One More Thing”

(37:15–40:18)

Overview:

• Brief congratulations to Team Spain and Lionel Messi for their World Cup win—President Trump’s prominent presence at the ceremony is lightly mocked.
• Amusing banter about the joys and tribulations of attending professional sports games.
• "One More Thing" segment features quirky stories (e.g., a raccoon with a birth defect named Jimothy) and commemorates the anniversary of the moon landing.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Charlie Hurt: “Ideas that are literally insane, nutty, moronic, dangerous, bigoted, are not progressive, they're regressive.” [00:43]
• Kennedy: “The commies have a giant saddle, and they're on the horse... They're burning the fort down. Give us a can of kerosene, we will light the Constitution on fire.” [06:15]
• Greg Gutfeld: “Personalization, personal attacks is your only tactic. Have you not noticed that is the only thing that has been going on for 50 years?” [11:55]
• Dana Perino: “Is it a mistake, a misconception...their leaders hold the same value over human life that we do?” [16:35]
• Kennedy: “Mark Warner is right. I also think Mark Warner is an asshat.” [23:47]
• Greg Gutfeld: “The fakery is what people will not like about her [AOC] and they will see. Typical politician is trying to mold herself into something.” [27:55]
• Dana Perino: “She mentions behind six times, and all I’m thinking about is her behind.” [31:21]

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Segment Timestamps (Highlights)

• 00:03–14:46: Democratic Party rift; socialist influence and strategy disagreement.
• 15:40–25:28: Breaking news: US military response to Iran.
• 25:28–33:15: AOC's "Southern accent", authenticity debate, party purity.
• 33:33–36:56: Don Lemon’s Nazi analogy, media hubris.
• 37:15–40:18: World Cup celebration, lighter news, “One More Thing.”

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Overall Tone

The tone is fiery, combative, and irreverent—typical of "The Five"—with earnest appeals for debate over ideas and exasperation at performative, personality-driven politics. The hosts blend personal anecdotes with sharp policy critiques and satirical observations, making for an episode that is as entertaining as it is revealing about political divisions and the state of American discourse in 2026.

Transcript

[Dana Perino]

Five.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Hello, everyone. I'm dana perino along with kennedy, harold ford jr. Charlie hurd and greg gutfeld. It's five o' clock in new york city and this is the five. And it's a battle for the soul of the Democratic Party as the socialist wing pushes an agenda that includes abolishing the Senate, replacing the presidency with a congressionally chosen executive, and amnesty for all undocumented immigrants. Big voices like Bill Maher and Van Jones are saying, hold on a second.

[Dana Perino]

I am tired, tired, tired of a

[Harold Ford Jr.]

set of people on the very far

[Charlie Hurt]

left in the Democratic Party. Ideas that are literally insane, nutty, moronic,

[Dana Perino]

dangerous, bigoted, are not progressive, they're regressive,

[Charlie Hurt]

and they should not be in our party. I'm not living in communism. I mean, I know that the talking point is it's not communism, it's socialism, okay? I've read the quotes from the DSA platform from their own mouths. Don't tell me I'm not seeing what I am seeing. They say things like, you know, takeover of key industries, government. That's communism.

[Greg Gutfeld]

And this comes amid reports of tension between Bernie Sanders and Hakeem Jeffries, the House Minority Leader, personally calling the socialist senator, telling him to stop meddling in Democratic primaries. But Sanders wasn't taking his orders. Over the weekend, Bernie teamed up with far left Michigan Senate candidate Abdul EL Sayed for a campaign rally. That was a doozy.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Watch here, brothers and sisters, let me

[Dana Perino]

tell you, change is coming.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Progressives have been defeating establishment candidates all across America. Now, brothers and sisters, the entire country is watching this election, so there's an enormous responsibility on your shoulders.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Harold, you have made a point for many years of trying to separate the Democratic Socialists from the Democratic Party. Will Hakeem Jeffries be successful here?

[Harold Ford Jr.]

I hope he is. First of all, it's good to be with everybody.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Good to be with you.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Good to be with both of you. Yesterday at the soccer game, the.

[Charlie Hurt]

Oh, I didn't get invited.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

I barely got invited. It was fun.

[Dana Perino]

Thanks for carrying my stuff.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

So, a couple of things. No borders, no prisons, no police. Supporting Hamas. We've been saying this on the show. I've said it for a while. Van Jones, who I think is one of the more thoughtful voices and has been a leader in the party, serving, working in the White House. I don't quite understand some of the appeal to what some of these guys are talking about. I understand the frustration, the economic frustration. I understand frustration with some of our policies in the Middle east over the years, for that matter, over the decades. But to say that supporting a organization that exacts and imposes violence on people because of their faith, to say that we don't want to have borders for our country and allow any and everyone to come in, even the worst of the worst. To say that you want no law enforcement and no place to put those who commit crimes. I don't know how that alliance or has ever aligned with the Democratic Party ideas are what win elections. I would point to, I would suggest to Senator Sanders and others that if you look at the most recent polling data, you guys are looking at the polling data which are the most reliable elections where some of the progressives are winning these elections. You look at the recent polling data about how Democrats are faring right now in the national races for Congress. We're in a dead heat with Republicans. And if you listen to those independents and others and some Republicans, it's because they are afraid of this message. They are afraid of the socialist, communist wing of the party. Now, you may get a lot of excitement there. And I've been a part of a lot of rallies over my short time in politics. I grew up in a political family. I'm 56 years old. And I've seen anger turn into enthusiasm.

[Kennedy]

You look amazing.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

But that enthusiasm is really predicated and really motivated around how are we going to solve real problems? No prisons, no border police. Supporting Hamas is not an answer to solving the economic challenges facing so many Americans. It's not a solution to a broken foreign policy, policies that we have in our country that are not working, whether it be in Iran or in other places. We live in a country where we've always had challenges and we've had people roll up their sleeves and get to work. We don't have people rolling up their sleeves and saying, we're going to quit, we're going to quit capitalism, we're going to quit democracy and we're going to go to socialism. We do that, it will get far worse. And Democrats, if we find independents and even some Democrats leaving us in the fall, come October, November, when early voting starts in these key states, we will have only ourselves to blame if we continue to embrace a group of people whose ideas are not only anti Democrat Party, but anti American.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Kennedy Herald, Van Jones, John Fetterman, Bill Maher, they're basically trying to build the fort against to keep out socialism. But the party leaders themselves, I mean, we have word that Hakeem Jeffries called Bernie Sanders, but Bernie Sanders and AOC are out there every single weekend. They're tireless, like campaigning. They're out there, they're drawing crowds. It feels to me like the party leadership is sort of ceding this ground and hoping that everybody else does the work for them.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, but that was the problem. They ceded the ground a long time ago. And the time to fight was, you know, really at the beginning of the Trump conflagration. And that's when, you know, Bernie Sanders was almost a Democrat nominee back in 2016. And that was really the moment. And that was when people like Hakeem Jeffries were more worried about being reelected than coming up with a party architecture that would take the Democrat Party into the next couple decades. And now, you know, you talk about a fort, and all these people, from Gavin Newsom to Hakeem Jeffries, all the establishment Democrats are talking about this, the idea of a big tent. And, you know, it's like the Odyssey just came out. You know, the Trojan horse. They built it, but they're riding on top of it. They're not even inside of it. The commies have a giant saddle, and they're on the horse, and they're like, yeah, we're coming in to take your party and we're burning the fort down. We're burning all of it down. And, you know, we're, give us a can of kerosene, we will light the Constitution on fire. That's what they're talking about, having the entirety of government under the legislative branch. Like, there's no longer a judiciary, there's no longer an executive branch. That means that the Constitution as we know it does not exist, nor does capitalism. And everything else, to Harold's point, will also go up in flames. And they have nothing to offer the day after. Nothing. They don't have housing. They don't have education. They only have fear. And that works. That works for aoc. That works for Bernie. We're going to talk about AOC a little later in the show and you know, her desperate attempts to pivot. Because all of these DSA talking points are not ideas. They are marching orders. This is an orthodoxy. And if you don't march in lockstep, you are out of the party, you are primary, you are out of a job. And Bernie doesn't care. He's not going to be president. You know, he'll go ahead and draft the orders and give them to everyone else while they set a party that he despises and has since they pushed him out in 2016. He will laugh on his way to the grave as they just burn it down.

[Greg Gutfeld]

What they're doing, Charlie, to me, it Seems the DSA is building a bench. Right. So El Sayed is a very prominent US Senate candidate, but you have like six or so mayor, new additional mayors. So the ones that we already have running, they have 120,000 members, they have chapters in all 50 states, are extremely organized. And one of the things that they can do is turn out in low turnout, usually low turnout elections. So like a primary on Aug. 4 in Michigan, who all's turning out like, you know, the people that came to that rally are going to turn out. Will the establishment Democrats be able to.

[Charlie Hurt]

Yeah. So it's a, it really is a growing bench. The question is whether or not that bench can play, that team can play outside of really, really deep blue places and places, you know, like niche areas of the country. Can they play in regular America? And I would argue that especially in sort of these swing districts and swing states, they can't play there because people are not buying this stuff. And you raise a really important point and that is that this election, this midterm, second midterm of a president's term is the high watermark for the Democrat Party. And so however well or badly the DSA controlled Democrat Party does in this election, I think that they're going to overperform whatever they would will be performing in three years from now when in 2028, I think it's going, or two years from now in 2028. Whatever. They, they're going to get some sort of sugar high because it's not going to be as bad. I think that they're going to actually do a lot more poorly than they were hoping. But the other thing is that what we're seeing here right now are, you know, for the longest time Democrats have run on racial politics, identity politics and to varying degrees of success. And they have switched that now to. They've, I guess they figure they've kind of run out of that scam and so they've switched it over to, to class politics. And it's really, as Harold says, it's very ugly. It's very, it's a dead end argument. And as Kennedy says, it's a dead end argument that shreds the Constitution. And that's why I think, yes, growing bench in places where Democrats should be winning, but it's not sellable anywhere else.

[Greg Gutfeld]

And the other thing is to all of this, Greg, is that Bernie Sanders has for years and El Sayed does it too. Mom, Donnie just did it this week. They basically define and attack the enemy as you or me. And then they just use that resentment to try to build a movement that's

[Dana Perino]

exactly the underpinning to everything of the last 50 years. You know, Harold is right. It is about ideas. But why did those ideas gain a foothold? It's because you can't debate them. You won't. They won't let you debate them. The strategy has shifted away from 1971, when the rules for Radicals by Saulinsky was published. It went from arguing about ideas to focusing on people. Breitbart talked about this up to his death. It used to drive me crazy. The Rules for Radicals. If you understand that book, Greg, you will see the direction of this company. They're moving away from battling over ideas where somebody likes you and Harold and I could sit and talk about immigration to targeting people so that you don't even have to talk about the ideas anymore. This is why the Democrat Party allowed these things to come in, because they couldn't actually argue the ideas or else they would be targeted. I think it's a huge moment for Democrats because it's not just about adjusting your ideas. It's about abandoning a strategy that has governed the modern left for so long. They've replaced abstract ideas, arguing about ideas with personalized attacks. It's stated clearly in Alinsky's book. You pick the target, you freeze it, you personalize it. Do you remember these words? And you polarize it that there's no mention of the idea itself. And why would you engage in ideas like socialism if history shows you that they are indefensible? Just push that aside. Personalization, personal attacks is your only tactic. Have you not noticed that is the only thing that has been going on for 50 years? The bad ideas are allowed to fester, but the people they target aren't. I mean, why does. Why was Charlie Kirk shot? They didn't argue his ideas. They just got rid of him. I think it was right before I went on vacation. I left. I suggested three places for the Democrats to focus on crime, border and trans. Have an idea for it. It's easy. They do. I talked to Harold knows exactly what to say. Dems resist it because it forces them back into the arena of ideas. And those muscles have atrophied. It was so much easier to focus on the person. And then the polling about the person. It was like, oh, you see how unpopular Trump is because we've been painting him a Nazi for so long. Well, what about the ideas? You find out the ideas on trans. He's on the 90% popularity on whether it's deportation or trans or crime. Everybody agrees with him, but not the person. What's depressing to me is I believe that the left has transformed culture. They've removed ideas where you can be wrong about an idea and shifted it to the person where you can be evil. So that means they don't have to discuss it. The only hope for me, for the Dems, is to abandon this path finally and rejoin the nation of ideas or this whole thing is going to implode. It's already polarizing a country even on something as basic as patriotism, where the patriotism, the idea is never discussed because it clearly they don't mind other teams here in the country with their flags or people from Palestine with their flags. It's us, because the people, we are the oppressors. You focus on us. Therefore, the idea of patriotism doesn't even factor in. This is a huge thing. When are they going to stop with the people and focus on the ideas? Harold and I, we argue all the time about ideas.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

That's what it should be.

[Dana Perino]

That's what it should be. And it's so. And even though you don't like me,

[Harold Ford Jr.]

we still have no.

[Dana Perino]

I can't stand you. You make me sick to my stomach. And the fact that I had to sit next to you during that football game was horrifying.

[Greg Gutfeld]

The other thing is that all of their solutions lead back to the government.

[Dana Perino]

Yes.

[Greg Gutfeld]

For you.

[Dana Perino]

Yeah. And you know what? They don't even care what the solution is. It's about the destruction.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

They don't care what the solution.

[Dana Perino]

They don't care what.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

They just want to. But they want to, you know, bemoan and discredit people.

[Charlie Hurt]

Yeah.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Who may be rich or whatever. And look, anyway, we got.

[Greg Gutfeld]

They're all full of contradictions because they're rich. Well, some of them. All right, coming up next, a fresh wave of military strikes on Iran. It's underway right now after President Trump vowed revenge for the fallen American troops.

[Dana Perino]

Summer breeze makes me feel fine I'm blowing through the jasmine My.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Cheers to America's 250th birthday. Get 20% off your first purchase at Fox News wineshop.com with code FNRADIO20. 20% discount excludes wine club offers and

[Charlie Hurt]

cannot be combined with any other promotion. Expires July 31, 2026.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Must be 21 or older to order. Please drink responsibly.

[Dana Perino]

US forces striking Iran for the 10th consecutive night after President Trump vowed vengeance against the terror regime following the deaths of four American troops this past weekend. The president posting on Truth Social, quote, every Time Iran kills an American soldier, they will pay for that killing many times over. Here's the president.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

We feel very badly, but you know

[Dana Perino]

those great people, those great patriots were out there fighting that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. We hit him very hard again tonight. And we did that in honor of the. Probably three. It's probably three, as opposed to two great patriots. But some Democrats argue that airstrikes won't finish the job. The Iranians give them credit. They know about enriched uranium, they know about nuclear. They have send great negotiators, but we're not going to. I do not believe anyone thinks that we're going to bomb Iran into submission. All right, so, Danny, is it a mistake, a misconception that other countries like Iran, their leaders hold the same value over human life that we do? So, like, they're fine, you can bomb us to hell and back, but they know that we aren't.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Like they'll kill their own people. Yeah, they killed 40,000 of them in January. So I think the response to killing Americans, it'll be clear that this is not business as usual. They gave them a chance with the memorandum of understanding that the Iranians balked at. And now you have a decisive striking back. I do believe it would be helpful to have a briefing from Secretary Hegseth and General Kaine. When there was kinetic action before, they had done these like once a week. And it was very helpful. And if I were them, I would do it tomorrow before they testify in front of Congress because then it becomes a circus. So if they have their own briefing at 8:30am like they had been doing, at least they can get on the record before being in front of members of Congress who are just going to try to make it about themselves. They have to go tomorrow for the, for the budget. And then that way you could have the secretary, he might say, I answered that this morning. Let's talk about the budget. However you would want to do it. But what that would also do is to provide the president an opportunity for us to hear from the Department of Defense, like, how is this going to go? And to answer Mark Warner, I don't expect details. But when Mark Warner is out there saying that nobody expects that we're going to bomb them into submission. Okay. Well, I don't know. I would, I would love to hear, like, what is the strategy then? Yeah, because the key is straight up Hormuz, I believe that the nuclear weapon thing will be off the table. Like they could. They're not allowed to have a nuclear weapon. That's Been clear. The international community agrees on that. The issue right now is a strait of Hormuz and trying to get that open.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Yeah.

[Dana Perino]

You know, so Charlie, as a layperson, I keep hearing like whenever there's this kind of conflict, more targets are hit, more targets are hit. When is like, how do you know when these targets are doing anything? As just a normal person, it's like you keep, oh, is this now going to make it better or what are we hitting?

[Charlie Hurt]

Yeah, well, and of course, one of the things that's really alarming right now is that those strikes on Jordan were pretty advanced weapons and we certainly felt like a lot of the strikes previously had taken out their, a lot of their missile capabilities. So that is definitely alarming. But whatever degree to which people, you know, misjudge the Iranian leadership, I think the Iranian leadership definitely misread President Trump and continues to misread President Trump because, you know, usually politicians operate on two in America, operate on two and four year old schedules. They're dealing with a guy that does not care about a two year or a four year schedule. You're dealing with. First of all, no president would ever launch a war, especially one that's not particularly popular in the middle of an election year. Midterms, he's not on the ballot, but it's a midterm election. It's important to him that Republicans win. And then, and then, of course, you wind up with a memo of understanding. And I think that a lot of the, I think the Iranian leaders also figured he wouldn't start bombing again because everybody was relieved that that was behind them and gas prices started coming down. They picked the wrong guy. And now they've killed two more or three more, two that have been named. Private Isabella Gonzalez, 19, from Texas. Lieutenant Tyler James Feehan, 25 from Hawaii. Patriots who lost their lives. And we are grateful for their service and we pray for their families. The fact that, that Iran killed them is only going to make Trump matter. It's only you're. All you're doing is hitting the hornet's nest and he is going to respond with greater ferocity to the point that they're going to have to come up with yet a new name of this operation.

[Dana Perino]

Harold, what do you think the response might entail? I hate asking speculative questions like that,

[Harold Ford Jr.]

but so I joined the trial. My prayers and condolences to the DeFean family and the Gonzalez family they represent. These are 19 and 25 year. That's what our military is made up of. And certainly all of us pray for their families. Greg, I think your question begs an answer from. But before you have the answer, you have to have a strategy or an objective and then you can develop a strategy as to what you do. We have gone from, remember, February 27, the Straits of Hormuz were open. Our objective was to eliminate the Iranians ability to develop a nuclear weapon and to, if not all diminish, if not altogether, to eliminate their ballistic missile capacity. It evolved. It evolved. Because I differ with my friend Charlie, I differ with you. I think the terms of this battle have changed since February 28th. We no longer talk as much about the nuclear piece. And I hope that Dana's right, that we will take this off the table. But the Iranians have taken control of the narrative because they have now shown what many presidents before feared, that if indeed we did attack the Iranians, that they would weaponize the Straits of Hormuz, which they have done. The Iranians have also suggested that the Houthis, another proxy of theirs, is going to begin controlling the Suez Canal, where you have another 15, 10 to 15% of the world's commerce goes through there. So the answer, we have to figure out what it is we want. If we want the Straits of Hormuz open, then I think, you know, our attacks, the continued military operation to try to affect the terms of negotiation we have to do. Mark Warner is right. Bombing alone may not work. We talked about this last week and Jesse talked about it too. We all did. Do we have to put troops on the ground? I don't know how you, how you reassert control to ensure that borders are navigable. I don't want to do this. This is not my preferred action. But when you have no allies going into this, but the Israelis, and they are important allies, we're going to be the ones that have to put the troops on the ground if we want the Straits open. Why? Because it is clear to me as much as the President and my friend Secretary Benson may say, we do not, nor have we ever controlled the Straits of Hormuz, they do. Finally, Mr. President, you don't need to tell the world that if two Americans are killed and one's missing or three are killed and one is missing, that you're going to direct the Secretary of War and the Joint Chiefs of Staff to respond. That's your job. That's what we hope you'd be doing. And I've said on this show many times, please stop talking so much. There's no need to tell them everything we're doing all that you're thinking and when you're going to do it. Because if you choose not to do it, and you have, on occasion, it affects your credibility not only with the Iranians and not only with Americans, but with the rest of the world.

[Dana Perino]

Last word to you, Kennedy.

[Kennedy]

Well, you know, you asked Dana, I think, a very important question, which is, do they value human life in the same way? Absolutely. Not like they are dealing with the afterlife. You know, this is a theocracy, and you know, we're never going to talk them into rational capitalism. You know, that is the great mistake we've made in the Middle east for decades. Having said that, you started it, now you have to finish it. And how do you do that? Unfortunately, you know, I do. I agree with Harold. I think Mark Warner is right. I also think Mark Warner is an asshat.

[Dana Perino]

Me, too.

[Kennedy]

He's one of those people who hates Trump so much, he's rooting for the other side to be victorious, just to stick it to Trump. And I don't want to hear anyone giving input who hates the president that much, that's so bad for the country. But I would like to hear from another Democrat. Fine. If you think this is a war of choice, if you think that the consequences here are so incredibly dire and set the Middle east up for disaster, then what would you do? If there is another way to do this, you know, we're already halfway in. Do you get us halfway out? Do you go the full distance? Because, you know, there aren't too many approaches, there aren't too many choices left available. Unfortunately, once you've started something like this, the way you finish it is with American ground troops. And, you know, we're saddened and disgusted to hear about those newly minted gold star families. That is not what we want. But if we see a ground invasion, you're going to see a lot more than that. And you're going to, you know, you're going to have young people whose lives are destroyed, and, you know, we're not going to be saying their names every day on tv. And it's not just politically costly. At some point it gets to be immoral.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

The only other option is another deal. And the deal is probably. I hate to say this, this is not a political comment, but it may be worse than the deal Obama struck because you're going to have to unfreeze all of that money if we don't want to put troops on the ground. Because guess who else knows we don't want to put troops on the ground? The Iranians. Yeah. So, again, this is not what I want to have happen. And Mark Warner loves this country. I understand. Just saying he may not. He may disagree with President Trump. I know him well. He believes that they probably ought to have. We ought to have an agreement. And I think we may end up there.

[Dana Perino]

All right, ahead, AOC busts out the phony Southern accent.

[Charlie Hurt]

He's already.

[Greg Gutfeld]

I don't need.

[Charlie Hurt]

Take away, take away this falling chain.

[Dana Perino]

Look sick and I die.

[Kennedy]

Ah, politicians and pandering. They go together like chocolate and peanut butter. New York Rep Aoc busting out a fake Southern accent at a Memphis rally for U.S. house candidate Justin Pearson. Won't you just take a gander at this? Why don't you?

[Dana Perino]

We cannot afford to leave Tennessee behind.

[Kennedy]

We cannot afford to leave Kentucky behind. Alabama behind, Mississippi behind, Georgia behind, South Carolina behind. She's not exactly Alexandria from the Bronx with that accent. Charlie, you live in Virginia. Did that sound awful familiar?

[Charlie Hurt]

Yeah. I would have given anything to have been there. I would have been. I would have, I would have swooned over it. I just love it. It's so good. I really do think that she is going to be the Democrat nominee because that's where all of the energy is. And that's exactly as far as she'll get. And she will not get any further because of exactly this. Because at the end of the day, she's a faker and she's got to fake it to like. And because as we were talking about earlier, she's never had, like, normal debates about, like, the issues and when she does, it doesn't go very well. And I think this whole thing about trying to claim that she's a working class gal, I mean, she's a bartender. I love that. I wish Congress was all the bartenders I ever had. I think that would fix all of our problems. But I don't think she's the bartender

[Greg Gutfeld]

that we need as president where everybody knows your name.

[Kennedy]

So this is going to be a very interesting triangulation because AOC is the awful stepchild of Bernie Sanders and she has also given birth to, like, replicants. And now she is going to try and make this pivot to the middle, which is a little tougher for a progressive to do. And she's already getting some pushback from the dsa, especially the state.

[Greg Gutfeld]

So she is where she is today because she was seen as a very authentic person. Right. So when she ran against the establishment Democrat here and came from out of nowhere and took him out, it was because she was all the things that she was that people have come to love about her. The fakery is what people will not like about her and they will see. Typical politician is trying to mold herself into something that she is getting in her head.

[Kennedy]

Who is telling her to do that?

[Greg Gutfeld]

I don't know.

[Kennedy]

Who?

[Greg Gutfeld]

Her consultants. I imagine that it's consultants. Or maybe she was just feeling the moment. Or maybe she is not as strong and authentic as we were led to believe. Right. We've already know. Like yes, she was a bartender, I was a waitress. Do I say that every day? No, I waited tables. I was really good at it too. And if everything falls apart, I will go back to it in a second. I love the job. But she was from Westchester. She got an economics degree. Like, let's have a debate on the issues. Like, can you imagine her, let's just say debating Marco Rubio. Just imagine that for the country. What accent are you going to use for that?

[Kennedy]

Yeah, well, I think it's going to be more interesting seeing her debate someone like Josh Shapiro because I don't, I don't hold Charlie's optimism that she's going to be the nominee. I think when she gets on a crowded debate stage, they are going to come after her and I think she might wither. I don't think she does well under pressure.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

To Dan's point, again, we've been talking about ideas and how you get people to higher ground in their lives. Better schools for their kids, lower costs for an access barriers, barriers, lower barriers to access to owning a home. There's been so much innovation in technology in the world and certainly in America. So many of the companies are concentrated in an enclave in California. You have 4 or 5 trillion dollar plus companies there. Why is that? Why are people flocking there? That speech she gave there I think might have been in my old congressional district. I appreciate any and everyone going there, but what is that going to do for people who live in south and north Memphis who have seen investment flee the area and not good jobs and meaningful opportunities? Why isn't the innovation and technology that is gripping certain parts of the country not gripping Mississippi and Alabama and Tennessee? I think we've gotten to a point in our politics where people just think giving a good speech and riling people up and getting on a plane or a bus or whatever the mode of transportation is and doing it again and again and again with no answers is somehow another politics. Politics is about finding common ground with people you disagree with to get the people you care most deeply about, which should be everyone you represent, to higher ground. Everybody needs to get back to that. Democrat and Republican alike. And I fear my party is heading in the wrong direction faster than the other party.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Well, we better hope that Amazon's not trying to go to their district.

[Kennedy]

Exactly. That's exactly what I was thinking. Amazon was going to open a huge distribution center in Long Island City and AOC threw open the door and invited them to get the hell out of the empire.

[Charlie Hurt]

25,000 jobs.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, I mean, that. That would have been very helpful to the working class that she claims to be a part of. But, Greg, the most delicious part is the cannibalism. It's. The DSA say that she is too friendly with Israel, therefore they don't know if they can support her.

[Dana Perino]

This is what happens. No ideas. They go for people. I think she's an absolute genius. I want to just read her that. That quote again and I'm going to tell you why.

[Charlie Hurt]

Okay.

[Dana Perino]

We cannot afford to lead. Leave Tennessee behind, Kennedy behind, Alabama behind. Mississippi behind, Georgia behind. South Carolina behind. She mentions behind six times and all I'm thinking about is her behind. Look, I don't know what she believes in, so I looked it up. Apparently her issues are a Green New Deal. Remember that?

[Greg Gutfeld]

Oh, yeah.

[Dana Perino]

Medicare for all, affordable housing, economic justice, criminal justice reform. So I wanted to look up debates where she debated these topics. As you said, she's only appeared in town halls, which is usually curated campaign events, congressional hearings where she gets to pose the questions. But there's never a point where anybody asks her about data or the outcomes. Like, nobody asked her about the Amazon thing or how would this work? No one has ever asked her, like, okay, when you close the jails, it's a really simple question. What happens to the criminals? What happens to the victims? You oppose family separations of illegals, but what happens when the adult has to go to jail? How do you convince landlords to rent? When you oppose evictions and background checks? How do you explain these things? She's never had to explain anything, which is why almost everything she says isn't memorable. Except for when she mentions her behind.

[Kennedy]

Six times she was challenged by Margaret Hoover. And she was like, I don't know. I'm not really a foreign policy expert.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Is that the accent she used for that?

[Kennedy]

Yes. I was like, oh, my God, Margaret,

[Greg Gutfeld]

I can't wait to hear her.

[Kennedy]

Why would you ask me about that now? She's like, well, we're not gonna leave anybody behind.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Not Kentucky Democrats. Even though this coconut oil we're talking about, this is not gonna sell. We have to have Ideas?

[Dana Perino]

Yeah.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Tell him Harold.

[Kennedy]

Harold Ford for president. People love Harold. Coming up next, would America's next president not be Harold but have to be a lemon?

[Dana Perino]

Go lemon.

[Charlie Hurt]

Together we'll break. So the lemon is very sour. Don Lemon apparently thinks he's presidential material as he smears President Trump's MAGA movement as Nazis.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

People keep asking me if I'm running

[Charlie Hurt]

for president, and I don't know. I might.

[Dana Perino]

I'm serious. I don't know.

[Charlie Hurt]

I might because people keep asking me to do it.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

You think that once Donald Trump is gone, it's the end of maga? I don't know if it's the end

[Charlie Hurt]

of that sort of attitude. I mean, the MAGA is the closest

[Harold Ford Jr.]

thing to the modern version of a Nazi party. This is America's version. It's the closest thing without the Holocaust

[Charlie Hurt]

and all that stuff. So, Greg, are you the only person in America who is drafting him to run?

[Dana Perino]

I am the only person that is asking him to run. And that's what he meant by people don't pluralize me. I love how he says MAGA is Nazis without the Holocaust and all that stuff. Well, what's left? I mean, that is a Nazi. By he can't even call a person a Nazi correctly. I mean, he can't even. He can't do ideas, but he can't even do the demonization. Right. He's so. But stupid. In this little experience, what have I learned about Republicans? Nothing. But I got so much insight on him. And this is something I always tell people. When you're responding to negative comments on X, you learn nothing. People learn nothing about the negative comment, but they learn a lot about you in your comment. You give away too much. That's why you shouldn't be talking to people online. You learn so much. Every time he criticizes somebody, you don't learn anything about his target. You learn nothing about Trump. You learn nothing. But you learn about his ego, his insecurity, his desire to be liked, and his low iq.

[Charlie Hurt]

So, Dana, it's easy to dismiss him or try to dismiss him, but there are plenty of nuts in the media and in the part in the Democrat Party who are saying similar things.

[Greg Gutfeld]

It always amazes me how many people in the media think that they're smarter than any president.

[Charlie Hurt]

Yeah.

[Greg Gutfeld]

And they have no respect for the job. They don't understand what it entails, but they think it's a show. And the 2028 Democratic primary is going to be a show. Can you imagine this cast of characters? It's going to be Amazing. It is incredible to me that he has lived this long and learned so little.

[Charlie Hurt]

Yeah. Harold,

[Harold Ford Jr.]

people in politics should stop talking about Nazis. It doesn't bode well for anybody.

[Charlie Hurt]

Kennedy, Are you just praying that he runs for president? Are you sending him love notes?

[Kennedy]

I agree with Greg. I don't think there's one person in his life. I think they might be trolling him.

[Charlie Hurt]

Yeah.

[Kennedy]

I think, you know, he's referring punked.

[Dana Perino]

He was referring to the magazine people. He has an old issue at home

[Kennedy]

that talks to him, his blind neighbor, like, you should run for president because they think that Don Lemon is Harold Ford Jr. And they wish he was. But it's, you know, the killing all the Jews part is kind of implicit in Nazism. And when you take that out of the context. And also not exactly a footnote. Yes.

[Dana Perino]

Has he ever hit on you, Harold? Don Lemon, I'm sure you're not as tight.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

I've known Don's a friend.

[Dana Perino]

Of course he is.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

But got to stop talking about Nazis.

[Kennedy]

The dsa, they don't like the Juice. Maybe that's what he's talking about.

[Charlie Hurt]

Yeah. There you go. I'm going to take Harold's advice. Coming up, President Trump crashing Spain's World cup celebration.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Of the world. Welcome back. President Trump basking in the glory of World cup champions Sports Spain presenting them their trophy and maybe, just maybe staying on the stage a little too long after their one to zero extra time thriller over Argentina. DP Yeah. How did you and Peter?

[Greg Gutfeld]

Well, I think. I think the entire World cup was amazing. I think the President's leadership was incredible. The host cities were great. The all the Americans that came into contact with the fans were terrific. It was a great play and I thought it was terrific coverage by Fox. So I say a 12 out of 10.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Kennedy, your thoughts about this?

[Kennedy]

I echo that. I also loved how people loved coming to this country and they were welcomed and they had an experience they didn't anticipate. And I don't think anyone's going to be paying attention to the fact that the President was a ball hog with the trophy celebration.

[Charlie Hurt]

Charlie, he's down from Queens. I don't think I want a president who doesn't horn his way into the photograph.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Mr.

[Dana Perino]

Gut felt the world is his stage. I'm going to say a good thing and a bad thing. A good thing. I love soccer because the 45 minute half lasts 45 minutes. It's amazing. Just look up and see the clock ticking down. It just makes me feel good. The bad thing is things Used to be easier to go to years ago. Even when I went to Candlestick park, it was easy to go to a game. And I get it, World Cup. But I've been to playoff games and stuff like that. Unless you're rich, it's Dante's Inferno to get into this place. It's just endless rings, rings and rings of humiliation and degradation. I don't know why people put up with going outside.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

The game is global. The game is global. The president was excited, as we were. I'm happy for him. Congratulations to Spain and Messi. Hope you come back when we.

[Dana Perino]

It's our house, Harold.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

One More Thing is up next.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Time now for One More Thing. Greg.

[Dana Perino]

Oh, tonight I'm back. I'm so excited. I got Kat, Tim, Tom Shalhou, Charles Payne and Tyrus. A classic panel tonight.

[Greg Gutfeld]

It turned right, and it looks like Punch the Monkey might have a new buddy in Seattle. Check this one out. Jimothy is his name. He's got a birth defect. He's a. Actually, that's a raccoon, believe it or not. No, that's not. Yeah, it is. And then his name is Jimothy. And now people are taking pictures of him. He's got this birth defect that makes him look kind of freaky.

[Charlie Hurt]

Now we're making fun of the deformed.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Yes, we are. And today my podcast is with Matt Wickman. Matt Whitlock. Excuse me, Matt Whitlock.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Harold, 57 years ago today, America landed on a move. Thank you, Buzz Aldrin.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Did we really? Come on. Do you believe that, Kennedy?

[Kennedy]

I do. Buzz Aldrin would punch me in the face if I said anything different.

[Greg Gutfeld]

You're next.

[Kennedy]

Oh, God. I didn't think we'd have time. Look at this FedEx driver. He drove. He delivered himself right into the pool, making sure he's got everything done.

[Greg Gutfeld]

I like how he turned and when

[Kennedy]

everybody said I needed that.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Yeah, it's so good. All right, Charlie, we'll get you next time. That's it for us.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Listen to the 5ad free on Amazon

[Charlie Hurt]

Music with your prime membership or subscribe

[Dana Perino]

wherever you get your podcasts.