MAHA Meltdown

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Five – "MAHA Meltdown"

Date: September 4, 2025
Panel: Greg Gutfeld, Kennedy, Harold Ford Jr., Jesse Waters, Dana Perino

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Overview

This episode of The Five dives into the heated controversies around public health policy—focusing on a combative Capitol Hill hearing featuring Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (now HHS Secretary) defending his stance on vaccines and CDC reforms. The panelists also tackle unrest in Portland, shifting crime policy debates, trans issues in sports, conspiracy theories about Trump’s recent shooting, and the power of intuition in decision-making—all through a blend of fiery debate and characteristic Fox News banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Capitol Hill "MAHA Meltdown" – RFK Jr. and CDC in the Crosshairs

Timestamps: [00:25]–[04:30], [04:48]–[13:39]

RFK Jr. Under Fire

• The episode opens with Greg Gutfeld and panelists reenacting and discussing a combative hearing in which RFK Jr., as HHS Secretary, faces criticism for ousting the CDC director and challenging the efficacy of COVID policies.
• RFK Jr. is portrayed as a disruptor, seeking "new blood" after what he called CDC’s "disastrous, nonsensical policies" during COVID ([00:25]).

Panelist Takes

• Dana Perino expresses deep frustration with the current hearing format:

  "They all lost me today. I pulled out my IFB. I couldn't even listen to it anymore. These hearings are totally broken... if the goal is to get information—it’s not happening.” ([02:39])

  • She criticizes both parties for focusing more on self-promotion and "gotcha" moments than substantive discussion.
• Jesse Waters sharply attacks legacy officials, blaming them for health crises:

  “These people oversaw an obesity epidemic, a birth rate plummeting, testosterone plummeting, autism skyrocketing, and they did nothing about it.” ([04:50])

  • He defends RFK Jr. as a much-needed “heat seeking missile” sent to “blow the place up” and disrupt the status quo at HHS.
• Kennedy calls for open debate and commends RFK Jr.'s willingness to challenge orthodoxy:

  “At least he makes me think about vaccines. That’s the best thing we can do as a society—have these honest discussions about what we’re putting in our bodies...” ([08:05])

• Harold Ford Jr. (dissenting note):
  • Supports vaccine requirements, critiques RFK Jr. for dodging questions, especially on HHS budget and Medicaid:

    “You can’t be the HHS secretary and not know the budget for Medicaid, Medicare or CDC.” ([10:10])

  • He cautions against blaming the CDC for COVID deaths alone:

    "Covid killed these people, not the CDC." ([13:01])

• The debate covers whether COVID numbers were manipulated and if honest skepticism in science was suppressed during the pandemic ([13:17]).

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2. Chaos in Portland & National Guard Deployments

Timestamps: [14:40]–[23:47]

Portland’s Ongoing Unrest

• The panel shifts to “80 consecutive nights” of rioting in Portland, highlighting law enforcement gridlock and the local government’s refusal to act.
• Kennedy describes her personal connection, blaming Portland’s leadership:

  "They're holding the police hostage and federal law enforcement are left to fend for themselves.” ([16:10])

National Crime Policy Discussion

• Washington D.C. extends the National Guard presence; David Axelrod advises Democrats to cooperate with Trump’s crime-fighting push ([15:28]).
• Jesse Waters:

  “Democrats are really the status quo party. They don't want to change anything on… crime. That's a dangerous position to be in 2024...” ([18:36])

• Harold Ford Jr. is open to bipartisan action:

  “Can you imagine… a 2025 crime bill that ends no cash bail, that puts more cops on the streets…? That’s what it's all about.” ([19:32])

• Greg Gutfeld criticizes selective empathy and the reluctance to accept Trump’s help due to political optics ([22:10]):

  "A leader is offering to help save the lives of minorities, and black leaders don’t want to help black people because, for some reason, Trump is an old white man. It’s reprehensible.”

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3. Malcolm Gladwell, Free Speech, and Transgender Sports

Timestamps: [24:26]–[32:02]

Gladwell’s Regrets

• Discussion of Malcolm Gladwell admitting he "cowered" during debate over trans women in women's sports ([24:48]).
• Greg Gutfeld calls Gladwell out:

  “He just told everybody that he stopped doing a bad thing, yet he portrays it as a bad thing was done to him, that he was cowed… It was your choice to join the mob.” ([25:26], [26:00])

• Dana Perino:

  “I have to commend these young women… like Riley Gaines… when nobody else would stick up for them.” ([27:22])

• Kennedy draws on her daughters' athletic experiences and criticizes public figures for "virtue signaling" rather than defending young women:

  “People like Malcolm Gladwell were incredibly cowardly because they were pretending they were on the side of the 80% when they knew what they were saying was wrong.” ([29:42])

• Harold Ford Jr. expresses a more forgiving stance towards people changing their minds, seeing broader potential for coalition-building, though Greg and Kennedy push back ([30:14]-[31:56]).

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4. Trump Shooting Conspiracies & Media Critique

Timestamps: [33:00]–[36:56]

Joy Reid and “Blue Anon”

• The panel blasts media figures (notably Joy Reid) for propagating conspiracy theories doubting Trump was shot ([33:00]).
• Kennedy lampoons left-wing conspiracy culture; Greg Gutfeld calls Joy Reid’s commentary both "boring" and "assigned opinions" ([33:55]).
• Dana Perino ties these claims to the media’s need for attention and “crazy aunt cash” ([34:43]).
• Jesse Waters & Harold Ford Jr. dismiss the conspiracies, stating firsthand knowledge and evidence of the shooting ([35:29], [36:28]).
• Harold Ford Jr. parallels this with other conspiracy theories, calling it “craziness” ([36:28]).

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5. Gut Instincts vs. Logic in Decision Making

Timestamps: [37:48]–[39:54]

• A light segment debates the role of intuition (“vibes”) versus rational decision-making.
• Kennedy quotes Kant, emphasizing intuition over pure reason ([38:32]).
• Jesse Waters argues for gut decisions in life choices, logic for the trivial ([39:18]).
• Dana Perino points out “vibes” is just the modern word for “intuition” ([39:37]).

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6. Memorable Moments, Quotes, and Humorous Exchanges

• Gutfeld on Government Officials:

  “They practice out of a van, though.” (joking about doctors; [04:39])

• Jesse Waters, on National Health:

  "We're the fattest, sickest and most mentally ill we've ever been, and this guy's the one guy that was sent in like a heat seeking missile..." ([06:10])

• Kennedy, on Portland:

  "Stinky Portland, which was arguably one of the greatest, most vibrant cities in the country… They haven't had a good mayor since Bud Clark flashed that statue." ([16:10])

• Gutfeld, summarizing Axelrod:

  "He's like riding the fence like a… squirrel with hemorrhoids." ([22:10])

• Kennedy, on Gladwell:

  "People like Malcolm Gladwell were incredibly cowardly because they were pretending… when they knew implicitly what they were saying was wrong." ([29:42])

• Harold Ford Jr., on policy flip-flops:

  "Donald Trump was a Democrat when I knew him... He became a Republican. Republicans embraced him after a while." ([30:14])

• Greg Gutfeld, on conspiracy theories:

  "Her ideas are bizarre and usually bigoted, but they're also not hers... She's the worst thing a commentator could become, which is actually boring." ([33:55])

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “They all lost me today. I pulled out my IFB. I couldn't even listen… These hearings are totally broken.”
  — Dana Perino ([02:39])
• “This guy's the one guy that was sent in like a heat seeking missile to blow the place up good. I say blow it up. And if you're against it, then you want America to stay sick.”
  — Jesse Waters ([06:10])
• “At least he makes me think about vaccines… That’s the best thing we can do as a society.”
  — Kennedy ([08:05])
• “You can't be the HHS secretary and not know the budget for Medicaid, Medicare, or CDC.”
  — Harold Ford Jr. ([10:10])
• “A leader is offering to help save the lives of minorities, and black leaders don’t want to help black people because… Trump is an old white man. It’s reprehensible.”
  — Greg Gutfeld ([22:10])
• “He just told everybody that he stopped doing a bad thing, yet he portrays it as a bad thing was done to him… It was your choice to join the mob.”
  — Greg Gutfeld on Malcolm Gladwell ([25:26])
• “People like Malcolm Gladwell were incredibly cowardly because they were pretending… when they knew what they were saying was wrong.”
  — Kennedy ([29:42])

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Segment Timestamps

• RFK Jr. Hearing & Public Health: [00:25]–[13:39]
• Portland Protests & National Guard: [14:40]–[23:47]
• Trans Sports Debate: [24:26]–[32:02]
• Trump Shooting Conspiracies: [33:00]–[36:56]
• Intuition vs. Logic: [37:48]–[39:54]

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Conclusion

The Five uses its trademark blend of satire and sharp debate to unpack today’s most polarizing topics: the fallout of pandemic-era policy, the state of urban America, political hypocrisy, shifting social mores, and the nature of “gut” versus “logic” in shaping opinions. Whether you side more with Gutfeld’s contrarianism, Kennedy’s libertarian streak, Waters’ populist edge, Perino’s pragmatism, or Ford Jr.’s centrist nuance, the episode brims with quotable moments, pointed disagreements, and culture war flashpoints, all delivered in the panel’s signature rapid-fire style.

Transcript

[Greg Gutfeld]

Hi, I'm Greg Gutfeld. Along with Kennedy, Harold Ford Jr. Jesse Waters, and when she eats an M and M, she always saves one M for later. Dana Perino, the five. I don't think.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Mr. Secretary, this is about you and me.

[Greg Gutfeld]

This is about kids being pushed in harm's way. You've sat in that chair for how long? 20, 25 years, while the chronic disease in our children went up to 76%. And you said nothing? Yeah, it's a Maha meltdown. RFK Jr defending his vaccine policies against Democrats on Capitol Hill. Furious over his ousting of the CDC director. Junior says it's time for new blood at the health agency after they failed Americans during COVID CDC failed that responsibility miserably during COVID when its disastrous nonsensical policies destroyed small business, masked infants with no science, and heightened economic inequality. And yet all those oppressive and unscientific interventions failed to do anything about the disease itself. And from there, the dams came unglued. You're so wrong on your facts.

[Kennedy]

You're interrupting me. And, sir, you're a charlatan. That's what you are. You're the ones who conflate chronic disease with the need for vaccines because you are citing data that you won't produce to the public. And you are objecting.

[Greg Gutfeld]

You're making things up to scare people. And it's a lie. Chairman, the Secretary of Health and Human Services doesn't. No matter how many Americans died from COVID 19. I know. If the vaccine helped prevent any deaths. And you are sitting as Secretary of Health and Human Services. How can you be that ignorant? I never promised that I was going to recommend products with which there is no indication.

[Kennedy]

When you said.

[Greg Gutfeld]

And I know you've taken $855,000 from pharmaceutical companies. Senator. On behalf of parents and schools and. And teachers all over the United States of America who deserve so much better than your leadership. That's what this conversation is about. Senator.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Chairman.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Senator. They deserve the truth. And that's what we're going to give them for the first time. Wow, Dana, you were covering this all day. What did you learn? I'm sure you learned a lot about health.

[Dana Perino]

As I was saying in the green room, they all lost me today. And to the point that I pulled out my ifb. I couldn't even listen to it. It anymore. I was extremely frustrated. I think these issues are very important. It affects everybody. And I think sort of like the debate when you have 10 people on stage and the format that we have in the time that you have. I think that's a broken system. I think these hearings are totally broken. If you actually. If the goal is to get information and to have a free flow exchange of ideas and information, because that is not what's going on.

[Greg Gutfeld]

What do you think the goal is?

[Dana Perino]

Well, so, and Republicans and Democrats both do this, the goal is to try to get a gotcha moment to where you try to figure out some way to capture this guy, but they don't ever give him really a chance to answer. And he interrupted them constantly, too. So I finally said, enough. One of the goals is to get yourself on cable tv, right? So if it's MSNBC or Fox or cnn, wherever you want to be, you also want to figure out some sort of sound bites so that you can get some small dollar donations, because that's where a lot of this comes from. I think that these issues to me, like, I'm not a mom, so I'm looking at this from a spectrum of maha. Right. I like a lot of the nutrition stuff. I covered the food pyramid stuff since the mid-90s when I first worked on Capitol Hill. I understand all of that's broken, but I'm not an. I can talk about a lot of things. I am not an expert in public health at all. I have to outsource that, you know, and I don't want to ever try to be. I don't want to be a Google doctor. But the other night, Kennedy, I was actually texting her about where does she go for a doctor? Because I'm like, what about this and what about that? And if you're over 50 and they're women, then there's all this diff. All the guidance is different. Everything's different. So now that's all true for children as well. So it's complex and it's complicated. And all these people did was yell over each other to the point that I couldn't understand or hear anything. They completely lost me.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Yeah. I think, you know, I feel your pain.

[Dana Perino]

Thank you.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Yes.

[Greg Gutfeld]

I can give you a recommendation. I can give you a recommendation for a few doctors.

[Dana Perino]

Great.

[Greg Gutfeld]

They practice out of a van, though. Jesse. You know, you look at these politicians that are grilling RFK Jr they don't look like they're in excellent health.

[Jesse Waters]

Widen looks terrible.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Waters]

And he's probably the best looking one out there. But these people oversaw an obesity epidemic. A birth rate plummeting, testosterone plummeting, autism skyrocketing, and they did nothing about it. And then they get on TV and they act like this guy is the bad guy. They this guy was hired to clean house. If he came in and didn't fire anybody from these agencies, he should be fired. That's what this whole agenda is about. You take these people who industry puts there, they rubber stamp everything from food additives to vaccines so it's profitable for the industry. And then they destroy any evidence that a study has. He came out and said they were destroying evidence of a study that showed black kids were getting side effects from a shot they didn't need. And the Democrat senators didn't even care. They accused him of killing people. And it's sick because they're saying he's anti science. All he's saying is we're going to put in some unbiased scientists, they're going to look at the facts. And if it's still okay to have these shots at a young age, if it's still okay for some of these drugs to be prescribed, that's fine. We just want to look at the underlying data. And that's not controversial. In fact, that's the scientific method. And the people that are saying this guy's anti science, we were double masking, they were face shielding, they were shutting down beaches and parks and schools and they actually think Joe Biden's healthy and they think you can power the world economy with windmills, Greg. With windmills. Talk about anti science. So I'm glad he went up there and battled these people. This is a big battle. He is the most popular member of the cabinet and Maha is the most bipartisan popular piece of this agenda. I, I think we can all agree if we've been to the beach recently, that we don't look so good. And it's not a coincidence that we stopped looking good after we added all this stuff to the food, upped all the shots, stuck our faces in the screens all day. All of a sudden we're popping pills and we all look horrible and we're spending a trillion dollars a year, a year to make ourselves healthier and we're getting sicker. We're the fattest, sickest and most mentally ill we've ever been. And this guy's the one guy that was sent in like a heat seeking missile to blow the place up good. I say blow it up. And if you're against it, then you want America to stay sick.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Wow, Jesse, you know, Kennedy, you know, they were really circling the wagons around the CDC and he took it apart in that one clip there. But it's like why can't CDC answer for some of the decisions they made.

[Kennedy]

Or for some of the businesses that were shuttered or to his point, before he testified today, he published an op ed in the Wall Street Journal showing some of the fallout from COVID the lockdown, shuttered schools, closed businesses, arbitrary six foot distancing rules, and all these things. So the difference between RFK Jr. And, you know, a lot of other cabinet secretaries is he has been passionate about this work for decades. You know, and someone like Interior Secretary Doug Burnham, I think he's fantastic. You know, I think he's had a lot of success as a governor in his state and he knows a lot about energy. But he's not been fueled by this the way RFK Jr has. And that's what's frustrating to a lot of the senators is he has answers for these things and he has a team of advisors that he has been working with. And I disagree with him on a lot of stuff, but at least he makes me think about vaccines. Yeah, at least I have conversations with people who are having babies now. And even the schedule that they're giving kids now is vastly different than 16 years ago, the last time that I had to have these sensitive conversations with the pediatrician. I think that's the best thing we can do as a society and have these honest discussions about how we look and what we're putting in our bodies and the solutions we're giving our children when we're failing them, when all of these institutions are failing him. So if Trump was elected to be a disruptor and to dismantle things, as a limited government libertarian, I cheer that. Even if I might have some fundamental issues with what he's saying, I believe in the work that he's doing.

[Greg Gutfeld]

You're right. I mean, just aside for good a herald, I didn't, I didn't look at vaccines, obviously, until I had, you know, I knew about it. But like the, the Hep B vaccine, they like, your baby has to get the Hep B vaccine. I go, well, what are the, what are the risk factors? Well, if your mother has Hep B and how did she get it? Well, through syringes or having sex with that. Say we're not in that group. No, we're not in that. Well, you know, you should still get the vaccine as a community preventive thing. I go, what does that mean exactly? My kid doesn't need this. And yet they tell you that it's required or suggested, and if you say no, they make you feel guilty. I think that's it for tonight.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

So, Harold, I have a slightly different opinion about this than the people around the table on a couple of different fronts. I have kids like you do, and in New York City, your kids can't go to school unless they have a certain number of vaccines. And my wife and I put our kids on a schedule. They got their vaccines. We ask questions, but we adhere to and believe in the guidelines. As I listened to Mr. Kennedy today, it was disappointing because I think he's a serious guy, but he was not serious today. The reason I was most excited about him becoming HHS secretary was about food and looking at the food supply and trying to understand the connection between and allowing people to live healthier lives. I didn't think he got to any of that much of the criticism, Greg, around vaccines that he encountered today. It was as much from Republicans as it was Democrats. In fact, the leader of the committee, Bill Cassidy, he was the one that said, you are denying people vaccines. That wasn't a Democrat. The first person to say that was Senator Cassidy. He was followed up by the senator from Wyoming and even Senator Tillis asking these questions. I was struck also, he was asked a question by a senator about mental health. And we talk a lot about mental health when they're. When guns are involved on campuses or in workplaces. And I think mental health is an issue. The administration cut Medicaid. The biggest provider, the single biggest payer for Medicaid services for young people in this country is Medicaid. Mr. Kennedy couldn't ask it. We answered that. We put up Senator Warner, who I thought asked questions about COVID and how many people died, how many people are going to see their increases in drug costs go up. Seniors, that is next year. And Mr. Kennedy couldn't answer it. You can't be the HHS secretary. We poke fun at Jasmine Crockett, rightly so. When she. When she can't answer basic questions and even other Democrats, we have to be consistent. You can't be the HHS secretary and not know the budget for Medicaid, Medicare or cdc. Finally, you can't blame. I don't mean to cut you a bit.

[Greg Gutfeld]

How dare you.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

I think it is. I think it is nuts when people try to blame. People try to blame what happened in Ukraine, on Biden. It'd be like me trying to say that when Covid happened in America because President Trump was president, he's to blame for it. Of course he isn't. The thing where he lost me today was when he blamed the CDC for a million or more deaths. I don't. I think you're Right. Kennedy. And around the table, there are things they could have done better. But to blame the cdc. It was Covid. And we never got to the bottom of what China did in all of this.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Yeah.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

I'm still a believer that because they won't let us in, that you have to assume there's some culpability on their part. None of those questions were asked. Answered by. I thought he might have announced a big fentanyl campaign. We're going to try to get people to get off of drugs. But again, So I was disappointed today.

[Greg Gutfeld]

As I watched him. Okay.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

I didn't mean to cut you off.

[Greg Gutfeld]

No, no, it's okay. It's just that you did a list. Persuasion. You have a lot of things in there. And I did, too. I know, but I'm just saying that, like you, he was being honest when he said he didn't know. Because that's the right answer. You don't know about the deaths. The same we were lied to about flu vaccines. How many people were killed by the.

[Jesse Waters]

Flu every year can blame them because they were qualifying.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Covid killed these people, not the cdc.

[Jesse Waters]

With a gunshot wound, Harold. And if you had tested for Covid, you were marked down as a COVID death so the hospitals could get more money. That's how it worked. It's already been exposed. Why am I the one exposing this?

[Harold Ford Jr.]

As much as we want to be partisan sometime, Covid killed these people, not the cdc.

[Jesse Waters]

And we have. We have to clarify it, because they don't.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

You think the CDC killed it? You think the CDC killed it? That's not what he said.

[Jesse Waters]

He said we don't have an accurate count. He said the hospitals jiggered with the numbers.

[Kennedy]

We couldn't even have an honest discussion at the time because they were. All the scientists who are mildly skeptical and reading the same data, who are pushing back against Anthony Fauci, were told they would have their funding taken away if they dare not toe the line. So we don't know some of those answers, unfortunately.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Yeah. Your face, Harold. He said the cdc.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

He said the CDC was responsible. I got it. But he said the cd. He did say that.

[Jesse Waters]

Jesse, that's not a direct quote. Terrible, but it's okay.

[Greg Gutfeld]

All right, up next, Portland maniacs roll out the guillotine.

[Jesse Waters]

These days, supporting the right call.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Hey, I'm Trey G, host of the Trey G Podcast. I hope you will join me every Tuesday and Thursday as we navigate life together and hopefully find ourselves a little bit better on the other side. Listen and follow now@fox newspodcast.com.

[Dana Perino]

Down.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

It's midnight.

[Greg Gutfeld]

People need flight.

[Dana Perino]

Do not adjust your set. That is not something from 2020 and the riots there. This is yesterday. Anti ICE rioters were rolling out the guillotine outside an immigration detention facility in Portland. Apparently this chaos has been going on for 80 consecutive nights. Residents say local police are refusing to intervene because the facility is tied to ice. That comes as Washington, D.C. filed suit against the Trump administration over its deployment of the National Guard in the capitol, with the D.C. national Guard getting extended till November 30th. So David Axelrod, he is warning his party against reflexively resisting Trump's crime fighting push.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

I would be careful about playing 28 politics on this issue because the right answer is we'll take all the help we can get as long as it's appropriate help, as long as it's stuff that will really help. I mean, these National Guardsmen aren't even trained to do that work. They're not authorized to do that work. So, you know, send us the resources that we need. We want to work with you. If there are criminal, if there are people doing violent crimes here who are illegal immigrants, we want them out of our city. We'll work with you on that.

[Dana Perino]

And he speaks as someone who knows a lot about Chicago and D.C. kennedy. Let's go to Portland first. So you could say 80 consecutive nights like normal activity.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, this is, this is what's happening in ultra liberal, progressive, stinky Portland, which was arguably one of the greatest, most vibrant cities in the country. You know, growing up there, it's the place where everyone wanted to live. My parents were Midwesterners. My dad got a job there. My family never left. They're still there. My brother was a cop in an adjacent town for a long time. He and Andy. No, and I did basically a ride along one day and we met with all the US Marshals who were guarding the federal courthous. And they were being bombarded. You know, they were being blinded with lasers and having the courthouse set on fire. And this nonsense is still going on. And it's not that the Portland police don't want to do anything. It is. They are completely hamstrung by the new mayor, Keith Wilson, because Ted Wheeler, the nutless wonder, decided not to run for a third term. He was awful. Ran the city into the ground after Sam Adams. He was also horrible. They haven't had a good mayor since Bud Clark flashed that statue. That's so old school. For those of you, and you are welcome. Okay? Having said that, they are doing nothing to help or support law enforcement. And if law enforcement says anything, if they do anything contrary to what is deemed acceptable by the mayor and city council, they'll end their careers and they will make sure that they 86 your pension. So they're holding the police hostage and federal law enforcement are left to fend for themselves. And God bless them in the job they're doing.

[Dana Perino]

All right, so, Jesse, should President Trump take that on Portland?

[Jesse Waters]

Portland doesn't exist, Dana. I mean, they do stuff there. We cover it. It doesn't matter. I've never seen a city like this. It's not even is this in America. They have antifa, they have gas canisters going off, they have ice guillotines. And it's like you just turn the page. Nothing happens, nothing changes. I would send them to Portland, but I'd send them anywhere. And they're not arresting people. They're just standing guard, making sure no one gets wise. And that's what it's. They're like parents. You know, you don't mess around when you see the guard. If I'm a Democrat and I have the Obama strategist that won two elections tell me to do something. And then you have the strategy work in D.C. the D.C. mayor now is like, yeah, the guard can stay till Christmas and blacks are begging for the guard in Chicago. So I'd say maybe cooperate with Trump, but for some reason the Democrats don't. They're in real trouble of doing what they did with illegal immigration. Remember, they denied it was a problem. They told people what they were feeling and seeing wasn't really happening, and then they got in the way of the solution. They're really the status quo party. They don't want to change anything on trade, education, interest rates, immigration, crime. That is a dangerous position to be in 2024, where you just want to have everything stay the same.

[Dana Perino]

So Harold Axelrod has is he always tries to, like, gently advise the party. You have an even bigger platform to do so. And Mayor Bowser has said, okay, let me share the risk with President Trump, but also share the possible credit if it works. And right now it seems in D.C. it is working.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

I couldn't agree more. I think a lot of what Jesse said, Democrats aren't the reason that interest rates are high. But I think you're right on some of the other issues that you enumerated there. I' said for a while, the coordination and conversation between Democratic governors and mayors with President Trump. Can you imagine meetings like President Trump has with foreign leaders who come to the who come to the White House, the president sits with them, and they announce something that is meaningful, impactful for their country and our country. They don't agree on everything, and they're not going to agree with the president on everything. But I think one of the things I agree with you most about, Jesse, and it's really Dana's point here on this immigration, this issue of crime could very well become the border issue. What border was in 2024 for Democrats if Democrats don't get their arms around us? Axelrod, David, was giving sound advice. This is not hard to do. And as I tried to say to some Democrats who seem so resistant to working with Trump, so resistant to being tough on crime, that the last time we had a national effort to address crime, it was done by a Democrat, by Bill Clinton back in the 90s. Can you imagine again, and I'll repeat it, a 2025 crime bill that ends no cash bail, that puts more cops on the streets, that gives us more jail. Something Mayor Bowser said she wanted in Washington, D.C. more money for prosecutors to go after violent criminals, longer background checks for those who have challenges. Wanted by a gun. I saw today on another network, I hope they were wrong that the doj, their sources say they want to block transgender people from being able to purchase guns. Now, it's amazing to me, we're not going to block people who commit crimes, who beat their wives, who beat their kids, who rape people, who kill people from. From being able to buy a gun. I want to do that, but that's.

[Jesse Waters]

Another conversation of a felony. You can't buy a gun, right?

[Dana Perino]

No.

[Jesse Waters]

Am I wrong about that?

[Dana Perino]

No, you're correct.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

If you beat your wife, you can buy a gun. If you beat your kids, you can buy a gun. But we can get back to it. I don't understand how the Second Amendment does.

[Jesse Waters]

They're saying it's a mental illness, which a couple years ago, transgenderism was a mental illness. Then you support mentally ill people buying guns.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

I'm going to save you from yourself here. We should also provide one way to cities with innovative and who provided real education initiatives with great outcomes. This is what Democrats should be focused on. The only point I make, you make my point on what you're saying about Trinidad. We can have longer background checks for people who we believe pose a threat to society. That's what a new crime bill ought to look like. And Democrats go talk with the president. There's room for not only negotiation, there's room for improvement. And frankly, there's room to make Our communities safer. That's what it's all about.

[Dana Perino]

I think that you can tell the politics are changing, Greg, when Muriel Bowser is able to do this in a city where KAMALA Harris won 93% of the vote.

[Greg Gutfeld]

I had so many good points to make it in. Harold has introduced trans, and now I'm completely. Harold just did that sin that I hate where he said, other people's problems are more important than yours.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

No, I did not.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Yes, you did. Trans don't have the opportunity to get guns. How many people are you talking about?

[Jesse Waters]

I could kill four people.

[Greg Gutfeld]

There are four trans people who want guns. Okay, it's not a problem. Okay, that's it. That's enough. Arrow in your face. Portland is a country within a country, which is exactly what is desired by people who want to destroy a nation. This is why these things are supported by dark money. You have enemies who want to destroy. Our ID is the reason for being. And they partner with the hard left because they don't like America either. So this is what you get. Axelrod. He's like, riding the fence like a. Like a squirrel with hemorrhoids. He says, yeah, you know, we'll take all the help we get unless, you know, they're. They're unskilled. What does that even mean? Would you deny help in a natural disaster, killing and injuring the same number of people? If you did, everybody would be against you because you're standing between suffering and the help to alleviate. Alleviate it. The relief. So what's different about this? Well, a, Trump is offering the help, so that's inherently racist. B, could it be that the victims don't rate because hurricanes strike people of all color? But these are just poor black people in a bad part of town, so, you know, business as usual as the black politicians say. This is something that's always been around. It's like a leader is offering to help and save the lives of minorities. And black leaders don't want to help black people because for some reason, Trump is an old white man. It's reprehensible. I wonder, like, if Brandon Johnson's car broke down on a highway, would he deny help from a white guy in a Trump hat? Of course he wouldn't. But he makes the same choice. He makes a different choice for other people.

[Dana Perino]

All right, ahead, a liberal author shamed into silence over transgender sports. Greg's gearing up. Here we go.

[Greg Gutfeld]

I just wanna love somebody.

[Kennedy]

If you're an illegal alien, Gatorade is.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

The number one proven electrolyte blend designed.

[Greg Gutfeld]

To hydrate better than water so you can lose more sweat and raise your game.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Gatorade, is it in you?

[Jesse Waters]

Please do. He got shamed into silence. Best selling author Malcolm Gladwell is now looking back with regret at the trans craze that swept America under Otto Penn's reign. Back in 2022, he hosted a sports panel. And deep down in his soul, he knew the truth. Dudes don't belong in women's sports. But he stayed silent.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

The reason I'm ashamed of my performance at that panel, because I share your position 100%. And I was count the idea of saying anything on this issue. They're not asking for a place at the table. They're not asking to be treated with respect and dignity. What they're asking is for no one to question the considerable physiological advantage they bring to the sport. And no one to question if they're.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Going to win these races by 5 seconds.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Suck it up.

[Jesse Waters]

Greg. What year was that podcast and what year is it now?

[Greg Gutfeld]

I don't know, but it's 2025, so I'd like to say welcome. Thank you. He just told everybody that he stopped doing a bad thing, yet he portrays it as a bad thing was done to him, that he was cowed.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Right?

[Greg Gutfeld]

No, it was your choice to join the mob, by the way. I welcome him for admitting he was wrong. But he did join the mob and he did call out dissenters, the people who share the risk. But he chose to avoid suffering and partner with the outside forces that made lives a living hell. So I guess I'm glad you stopped doing a bad thing. But he should confess. He should. He should tell us why he's confessing the truth now and not earlier. And it's because people braver than him did it first. They shared the risk. If they hadn't shared the risk, he wouldn't be doing that. Imagine if. If Kamala had won, if Trump had lost this new era of free speech where you could say it wouldn't exist and he would be silent because the. The wokeism suppression, which operates on intimidation, would still be around. But that was Slade, and I'm going to take some credit here. This show helped slay that. Gutfeld helped slay it, and Trump came in and slayed it. But it took people like J.K. rowling and Graham Linehan, and I would say me and others that took the heat, while others like him decided to blend in with the mob because they were so worried. They were so worried that they would either lose friends or invites to cocktail parties. So I Think he missed a step. He should tell us why now.

[Jesse Waters]

Are you finished congratulating yourself?

[Greg Gutfeld]

No, not yet.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Just kidding.

[Jesse Waters]

Greg, we're very proud of you.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Are you really?

[Jesse Waters]

You're a dragon slayer or a trans slayer? Dana, you're an intellectual.

[Dana Perino]

Oh, really?

[Jesse Waters]

Malcolm Gladwell, is he the kind of person that can really create momentum now where other people come out and say, yeah, I was a chicken.

[Dana Perino]

I mean, you might call this the tipping point, all of this. Okay, so I'm gonna. I'll see all of your bravery, right, in terms of talking about this early. But I also have to commend these young women who have been willing to come on our show, starting with Riley Gaines and all the other ones, when nobody else would stick up for them. It's so outrageous to me. Martina Navicholov. Okay, maybe a little bit different, but where's Billie Jean Keene, for example? We're at the US Open. She has her career and her legacy in the books and all the things. Because of the battle of the sexes. That's what that whole thing was about. And then nobody is willing to go and defend them. And I don't necessarily think that all of this is over, but they've been very brave. The Independent Women's Forum helped all of them. I hope that we can continue to do that, because I don't think that it's over. What Gran Linehan was arrested for was talking about this issue in the uk. Now, I do think if Kamala Harris had won and if one of these other guys wins in the future, who wants his Mamdani AOC Newsom? If they want this, that's the future that we could be looking at.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Kennedy.

[Dana Perino]

Sweet.

[Kennedy]

Harold, I guess you're welcome to the women's room to change and gussy up and do whatever you have to do, going. You know, it's like watching this when my girls were on competitive gymnastics. Yeah, I would be terrified if boys started competing against them because they can naturally do a lot of cooler, bigger things. Like the stuff that Simone Biles has been doing on vault that she made her name on. Men have been doing for quite some time. They just don't call it the Biles. And I was really disappointed when she came out with such vitriol against Riley Gaines, because, you know, I felt like there was a way for her to have the conversation without doing what Malcolm Gladwell did three years ago, which is virtue signal to people in order to be liked and accepted. Because if you said anything that critically opposed the orthodoxy, you were exiled. And, you know, People like that whose fragile egos depend on being welcomed into that faction, that is a fate worse than death. And it is tough to stand up because, you know, of course he wants to be an ally. Of course he wants to honor his gay friends. And that was lumped into allyship, that somehow men had to be able to compete in women's sports and young people had to be given gender affirming care, which oftentimes included surgery. And that's why it was an 8020 issue. Not because of what people were saying, but because of what people felt. But people like Malcolm Gladwell were incredibly cowardly because they were pretending that they were on the side of the 80% when they knew implicitly what they were saying was wrong.

[Greg Gutfeld]

He's a traitor. He's an intellectual traitor.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

So I've been two years, I've been publicly on this show saying that little boy should not be playing a little girls sports or bathrooms. I know you're probably joking, but I've never been, I've never been one to believe that. Where I differ with you guys and maybe you don't mean it the way you're saying it. I welcome anybody that eventually comes to my side. And I don't, and I don't question it necessarily, whether they were being a coward, whether they were being political, so be it. Donald Trump was a Democrat when I knew him, when I first met, gave money to my political campaigns back in the 2000s. He became a Republican. Republicans embraced him after a while. J.D. vance and Rubio didn't like President Trump. At least their words suggested they said bad things about him. But the two of them, the three of them got back together. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Was a Democrat when I first met him. He's now not a Democrat.

[Greg Gutfeld]

This is not the same thing.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Can I. It's the same thing, Dana. You get Malcolm Gladwell. For him to say I was wrong, for anybody to say I was wrong. I was just trying to give you guys some context for someone to say I was, I had a position I was completely wrong about and I've come around on it my only.

[Greg Gutfeld]

But he didn't say that. He didn't say that.

[Kennedy]

That's not what he's saying.

[Greg Gutfeld]

He didn't say it. He said that when everybody else said this, I went along with it.

[Dana Perino]

Right.

[Greg Gutfeld]

He said, he said I was just following orders.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

And when, and when JD Said that he thought that President Trump was a Nazi, he said I came to understand that he was not.

[Greg Gutfeld]

But, but, but the thing is. But that's different, Harold. That's different because he probably believed. Look, I said lots of things about Trump that and I didn't say, you know what? I only did it to go along. I did it because I believed it at the time.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

But, and at the same, look, whether he believed or not, one thing he may do, he may bring a lot of people over to this issue we have. We need to block little boys from going to little girls bathrooms and block them from playing in sports. That's why I. That's why I believe this is important.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Can we dispel this notion that it's about little boys or boys, it's men.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

I agree with you. I'm just using. I agree with you. I agree with you 100%.

[Jesse Waters]

Talk about joy Reid, please.

[Dana Perino]

Permission.

[Jesse Waters]

Up next, crazy Joy Reid doesn't think Trump got shot.

[Greg Gutfeld]

She's crazy Harold.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Between two factor authentication, strong passwords and a VPN, you try to be in.

[Jesse Waters]

Control of how your info is protected. But many other places also have it.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

And they might not be as careful.

[Jesse Waters]

That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Of data points a second for threats.

[Jesse Waters]

If your identity is stolen, they'll fix.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

It, guaranteed, or your money back.

[Jesse Waters]

Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast for 40% off terms apply.

[Dana Perino]

That's right.

[Kennedy]

It is TDS Thursday, and Joy Reid doesn't seem to think that Trump got shot.

[Dana Perino]

Really?

[Kennedy]

He's got these magical doctors who claim that he was shot in the ear, but his ear, I guess, grew bad. He had a duplo bandage on one minute, no bandage the next. We can't get a medical record from this alleged assassination.

[Dana Perino]

He was supposedly shot.

[Kennedy]

We have nothing. We've got nothing. Where are the investigative records? One day he slapped his maxi pad on his ear, the next day the ear is totally fine. And now that people are speculating that.

[Greg Gutfeld]

He might have died.

[Kennedy]

We only get that online, but mainstream.

[Dana Perino]

Media is acting like everything's fine. He seems fine to me.

[Kennedy]

Dear lord, what musty FaceTime call did they dig these two out from? So, Joy Reid. Obviously, no one's paying attention to her. She was let go from msnbc. Does she just have to say crazier and crazier things in order for people to refocus on her?

[Greg Gutfeld]

Well, you know, her ideas are bizarre and usually bigoted, but they're also not hers. So she's the worst. She's the worst thing a commentator could become, which is actually boring. Her thoughts aren't even her own. They're assigned opinions. She got that from somewhere else. She's like a person that, like, runs onto a field during a ball game. It's done for attention, but also the response amplifies the attention that's even bigger. So we kind of play with it. I love the fact that she has pictures of two men behind her who were assassinated. You know, she's probably not exactly the right frame for her subject matter.

[Kennedy]

No. Maybe it makes her an expert.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Yes.

[Kennedy]

Like Malcolm Gladwell had Mao Zedong on his wall behind him as he hates tyrants so much. So, Dana, is this harmful to the conversation?

[Dana Perino]

Well, I think the very fast pivot to Blue Anon on the left is a testament to their lunacy, and it's the way for them to get attention. It's where the crazy ant cash is flowing. They get little donations here and there. You get a tip on Substack if you want to go ahead and turn off about 80% of your remaining audience writ large. I mean, meaning Democrats. Dive in hard on Trump health and ignore Biden's and see how that goes. Yes.

[Kennedy]

Just showing the hypocrisy one silly podcast at a time. And I know about silly podcasts. Five a week here. Kennedy Saves the World. Fox News podcast. Go there now. So it's the kind of logic where she would say something like, JFK was asking for it.

[Jesse Waters]

Yeah. I mean, I know people that saw Trump right after he got shot and he showed people his ear.

[Greg Gutfeld]

That was me.

[Jesse Waters]

Right?

[Greg Gutfeld]

I know people. You work with one.

[Jesse Waters]

I knew other people besides you. You were no.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Anybody.

[Jesse Waters]

Jesse, he was showing his ear to a lot of people. I know you thought you were special, but he was showing it to a lot of people.

[Greg Gutfeld]

I hate you.

[Jesse Waters]

But we saw a picture from the New York Times of the bullet flying through the air. And then we saw him get up. Those weren't ketchup packets. He exploded onto his head. The FBI said he was shot near. The doctor said he was shot in the air. We saw him on TV get shot in the air. So I don't know what she's talking about. I think when you lose your perch in the legacy media, you go online and you become a shock jock for attention and cash or shock jacket. And so that'll happen to all of us when we lose our jobs. I'll go stream and I'll say outrageous things like, greg is gay. Prove me wrong, and I'll take calls.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

This conspiracy theory thing is so crazy. President Trump was almost assassinated two times. He got shot the first time. I talked to him shortly after the time he was shot the first time. This is just silly. The conspiracy theorists around 9 11, never occurring. Jeffrey Epstein being alive. George Floyd not being beaten to death in front of me. This is craziness. This is craziness. Barack Obama not being a US citizen.

[Greg Gutfeld]

You were doing this online persuasion. Every single segment.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

You know where I got it from?

[Greg Gutfeld]

Who?

[Harold Ford Jr.]

You.

[Dana Perino]

He's even using.

[Greg Gutfeld]

You were wrong to do that.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

You were wrong to do that.

[Kennedy]

Very exciting. The fastest is up next.

[Greg Gutfeld]

You're slipping.

[Jesse Waters]

Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Two, seriously, it's $15 a month.

[Jesse Waters]

Three, no big contracts.

[Kennedy]

Four, I use it.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Five, my mom uses it.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Are you.

[Jesse Waters]

Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right?

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Okay, give it a try.

[Greg Gutfeld]

@Mintmobile.Com Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan.

[Kennedy]

$15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Go with your gut. A study shows Americans are leaning on Vibes over logic for making big decisions. I skipped my pile yesterday. I go to you now, Mr. Gutfeld. What are your thoughts about this?

[Greg Gutfeld]

I don't really understand this story because it's kind of deliberately vague as summer stories are. A summer a story with something about vibes. Because everybody in the publishing industry are at their beach homes. I don't. I guess you have control over things. Is that what you're saying? I don't have control over things. So maybe this will happen. This happened. Here's my suggestion. Just concentrate on your basic fitness, hygiene, manners, organization, discipline. People want to be around you. Vibes is I basically it. It doesn't matter how important is your gut.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Kennedy. The decisions you make.

[Kennedy]

Incredibly important. It is. Emmanuel Kant said that intuition was greater than reason. That was critique of pure reason. That was his greatest work. And it is because we have to be able to trust our instinct. And people give that away when they rely so much on technology and the hyper rational. So it's like Marie Kondo. If you want to get rid of something or if you want to buy something, hold it next to your heart. If it brings you joy, then do it. It's the same thing with like if you're moving to another city.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Potentially we're just talking about common sense. Vibes is bs. Yes, comment that you're talking about common.

[Kennedy]

Sense, but intuition and yes, like How a feel like, like don't get into.

[Greg Gutfeld]

A car with Jesse Waters.

[Kennedy]

Or if you've got a bad feeling about someone when you're talking to them at the bar, then maybe leave Jesse quickly.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Logic or intuition, which is decisions.

[Jesse Waters]

You always want to use your gut, like buying a house or marrying. But if it's like an insignificant decision, like where to go out to eat, you want to use logic like, do I know the owner? Can he get me a good table? Those are the kind of things you use logic for.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Dp, you are the most logical person here. What do you do? Intuition or logic?

[Dana Perino]

I think pragmatism is really good. I also think that vibes is a word now that everybody's using for everything. But the real thing is intuition. Trust your gut. Like when you're walking down the street and you think someone's coming up behind you and then they're going to tap you on the back of the arm and yell, big fan. Be prepared.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

One more thing is up next.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Fox Nation has your exclusive ticket.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Listen to the all new Brett Baer podcast featuring Common Ground in depth talks with lawmakers from opposite sides of the aisle, along with all your Brett Bear favorites like his All Star panel and much more. Available [e-mail] or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Greg Gutfeld]

OMT data.

[Dana Perino]

Well, I had to look this up because I was sure what it meant, but it's cuffing season out there for everybody, even for snails. But there's a garden snail. His name is Ned, and he's having trouble finding love because his shell coils to the left instead of to the right. So that's 1 in 40,000 chance. So the folks at New Zealand Geographic magazine, they're trying to find Ned a partner and so far it's not happening. No one is swiping right. If you could help out poor Ned, that would be great.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Wow, thanks for that. All right, tonight we got cat tip, Joe DeVito, Rob Schneider and Tyrus. 10 o'. Clock. Jesse, you've 40 seconds.

[Jesse Waters]

That's it. All right, let's skip the car plunging into the ocean, driven by the drunk woman in Australia and go right to my show. Tonight we had Johnny at the US Open. Greg, don't interrupt. A double plug for his show. It's not a mistake.

[Greg Gutfeld]

I like your hair in January.

[Kennedy]

And Djokovic canceled his game and I.

[Dana Perino]

Was crying my heart out.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Where are you from?

[Kennedy]

Ireland.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Oh, how's Rosie? 10 seconds hard. Who's next?

[Harold Ford Jr.]

I'm gonna save mine. Yeah, sure.

[Greg Gutfeld]

You don't have seven points you want to make.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Harold this is Jason Chaffetz from the Jason in the House Podcast.

[Jesse Waters]

Join me every Monday to dive deeper into the latest political headlines and chat with remarkable guests.

[Harold Ford Jr.]

Listen and follow [e-mail] or wherever you download podcasts. Listen to the 5ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership or subscribe.

[Greg Gutfeld]

Wherever you get your podcasts.