The Focus Group Podcast - S5 Ep15: Nothing is True, Everything is Possible (with Anne Applebaum)

Host: Sarah Longwell
Guest: Anne Applebaum, Staff Writer at The Atlantic and Author of Twilight of Democracy and Autocracy, Inc.: The Dictators Who Want to Run the World
Release Date: April 26, 2025

1. Introduction to the Episode

Sarah Longwell opens the episode by presenting a critical examination of former President Donald Trump's first hundred days in office. The central question revolves around whether Trump embodies an aspiring authoritarian, a corrupt demagogue, or a combination of various negative traits that threaten American liberal democracy. Longwell introduces Anne Applebaum, a renowned expert on authoritarianism, to provide deep insights into this pressing issue.

2. Trump’s First 100 Days: Indicators of Authoritarianism

Longwell outlines the rapid changes Trump has instituted, including significant executive orders that appear to undermine government institutions, the rule of law, and the economy. She questions whether these actions signify a slide toward authoritarianism or are merely typical political maneuvers.

Notable Quote:

Anne Applebaum [03:00]: "Democratic decline is a process rather than a moment... As Congress became more and more ineffective, there began to be more and more distrust in all kinds of institutions."

Applebaum explains that the decline in democratic norms has been a gradual process influenced by institutional ineffectiveness, distrust in media and scientific institutions, and accelerated by the advent of the Internet which has transformed how political information is consumed and processed.

3. Focus Group Reactions on the Deportation Case (Abrego Garcia)

The discussion shifts to a specific case involving Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a man wrongfully deported to El Salvador. Focus group participants reveal a mix of opinions, often influenced by polarized media narratives.

Notable Quotes:

Focus Group Participant 1 [09:16]: "People are saying we shouldn't have sent him there. I feel like we should have. He's a criminal... I don't understand why sending him back is a big deal."

Focus Group Participant 2 [09:42]: "Fox News says he's a gang member... I have zero problems with him being shipped back to El Salvador."

Applebaum analyzes how Trump and his allies manipulate such cases to create and reinforce out-groups, thereby unifying their base by fostering distrust in established institutions.

Notable Quote:

Anne Applebaum [13:39]: "Trump creates... a group that is legitimate to attack and insult... that's a tactic as old as humanity."

She also highlights the deliberate spread of misinformation, exemplified by false claims from political figures like JD Vance, which erode the public's ability to discern truth from falsehood.

4. Trump’s Targeting of Law Firms

The conversation moves to Trump's administration's actions against law firms associated with his political opponents. Participants express varied awareness and opinions on these executive actions.

Notable Quotes:

Focus Group Participant 7 [30:49]: "Trump was getting back at the people that were going after him... I wouldn't want those people in my business."

Focus Group Participant 4 [31:47]: "Executive orders are just like a cheat code... just to get whatever you want."

Applebaum observes that such tactics mirror those used by authoritarian regimes to undermine legal and ethical checks, ensuring that opponents are systematically debilitated.

Notable Quote:

Anne Applebaum [34:35]: "If you can get a sufficient number of people living in an alternate reality where the only things that are true are the things that Trump says, then they win."

5. Targeting Harvard and Academia

A significant part of the discussion focuses on Trump's threats to revoke Harvard University’s federal funding and tax-exempt status, reflecting a broader assault on academic institutions.

Notable Quotes:

Focus Group Participant 1 [39:54]: "I get what they're trying to do. But I don't agree with pulling all their funding and pulling their tax exemption status."

Focus Group Participant 2 [40:29]: "Here we are paying off people's tuitions and then we're giving the colleges money. Where does it all end?"

Applebaum draws parallels between Trump’s strategies and those of Viktor Orban in Hungary, emphasizing the targeted attack on universities as a means to dismantle intellectual elites and promote ideological conformity.

Notable Quote:

Anne Applebaum [43:37]: "They want a revolution, they need to replace the elites, carry out the march through the institutions... it's a Bolshevik idea."

She underscores the long-term implications of such attacks, aiming to erode critical thinking and reshape cultural norms to align with authoritarian objectives.

6. Revenge Tour and Political Retaliation

The episode delves into Trump’s so-called "revenge tour," where his administration targets opponents, raising concerns about the erosion of fair political practices.

Notable Quotes:

Focus Group Participant 4 [48:05]: "No administration is fair with their political opponents... it's always retaliatory and tit for tat."

Focus Group Participant 6 [49:53]: "He is going to run a book... Trump being Trump, I knew he was going to go for revenge."

Applebaum discusses how such retaliatory measures foster deep societal divisions and weaken democratic institutions by promoting a culture of vengeance over governance.

7. Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Longwell reflects on the cumulative effect of Trump's actions and the normalization of authoritarian tactics among voters. Applebaum emphasizes the urgent need for citizens to seek reliable information and uphold democratic principles to counteract these threats.

Notable Quote:

Anne Applebaum [52:00]: "The fact that people are already prepared to accept stuff that would have shocked them a decade ago... I think that's already an authoritarian sign."

Longwell and Applebaum conclude that while the path forward remains uncertain, awareness and proactive engagement are crucial to preserving democratic integrity in the face of escalating authoritarian tendencies.

Key Takeaways:

• Gradual Democratic Decline: The erosion of democratic norms has been a long-term process exacerbated by institutional distrust and rapid societal changes.
• Manipulation of Information: Authoritarian tactics, including misinformation and the creation of out-groups, undermine public trust and polarize society.
• Targeting Institutions: Attacks on law firms and academic institutions mimic strategies used by global authoritarian leaders to consolidate power.
• Normalization of Retaliation: Political retaliation fosters division and erodes the foundational principles of fairness and justice in governance.
• Need for Vigilance: Upholding informed citizenship and defending independent institutions are vital to counteracting authoritarian threats.

This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the current political climate, drawing insightful parallels with historical and international examples to highlight the dangers posed by authoritarianism in modern America.