← The Focus Group Podcast
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- [00:00]
Sarah Longwell
What is daddication? The thing that drives me every day.
- [00:03]
Harry Siegel
As a dad is Dariona. We call him Dae Date for short. Every day he's hungry for something, whether it's attention, affection, knowledge.
- [00:11]
Sarah Longwell
And there's this huge responsibility in making.
- [00:13]
Harry Siegel
Sure that when he's no longer under my wing that he's a good person. I want him to be able to.
- [00:19]
Sarah Longwell
Sit back one day and go, we worked together.
- [00:21]
Harry Siegel
We did a good job.
- [00:22]
Sarah Longwell
That's dadication. Find out more@fatherhood.gov brought to you by the U.S. department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council.
- [00:31]
Harry Siegel
Lowes knows how to help you save this July 4th get up to 40% off select Whirlpool kitchen appliances plus get an additional 10% off when you buy two or three. Select major appliances and when you buy four or more, you'll save an additional 20%. Find the right appliances and features that fit your kitchen's unique needs and style. Shop Whirlpool 4th of July deals at Lowe's valid through 7 9c lowe's.com for details. Savings vary based on purchase amount. Selection varies by location foreign.
- [01:05]
Sarah Longwell
Hello everyone and welcome to the Focus Group podcast. I'm Sarah Longwell, publisher of the Bulwark and this week we are taking you to the greatest city in the world to cover the worst Democratic primary in the world. I'm talking about the New York City mayoral primary, which is quickly turning into a choice between Andrew Cuomo, who in a sane world would be living in a cabin off the grid right now, and Zoran Mumdani, a socialist state assemblyman who is too much even for my colleague and card carrying pinko friend Jonathan Last. There are six other statistically significant candidates right now, but ranked choice voting probably makes this a two person race. We're going to talk about that more later on. My guest today is Harry Siegel, senior editor at the City, a nonprofit New York City news outlet, columnist at New York Daily News, and co host of the weekly podcast faqnyc. Harry, thanks for being here.
- [02:09]
Harry Siegel
Thanks for having me, Sarah.
- [02:10]
Sarah Longwell
These are my favorite podcasts that we do. When I have somebody I don't know cause I do a lot of these with like my pals or people in national or whatever. But when we have a local race and a person locally who's following it super closely, who's gonna teach us about all dynamics that we need to understand to understand this horrible, horrible race. So I'm going to start with this. The New York Times editorial board ran an editorial this week that made clear they preferred Andrew Cuomo to Zoan Mamdani, but wouldn't explicitly call for people to rank Cuomo on their ballots. Now you called this and I liked this. Pathetically mealy mouthed also. It's like kind of indicative of how a lot of people, including yourself, are feeling about this race. So lay this race out for me about what's going on.
- [02:57]
Harry Siegel
There's an awful lot happening and a lot of it is very stupid and frustrating. So here's the top line. Generally, the Democratic primary is the whole show in New York where there's like roughly a billion Democrats to every registered Republican. There's a bunch of independents, but the primaries are closed, so only Democrats decide on their candidate. And then in the last three elections, that person cruises in the general whether they're up against somebody serious or not. Because after Giuliani and Then Bloomberg, so 20 years of non Democratic mayors in a very overwhelmingly Democratic city, it's like this is the deal. This is the big show. However, this Democratic primary, to say what's gross about these people in a slightly different way than you did. Sarah has a guy who the Democratic Party purged and pushed out of office, who resigned and now says he was forced out before he could have been impeached and then would not have been allowed with New York's impeachment laws, to run again against a socialist with no interest whatsoever in the Democratic Party except as a vehicle. And that's who we're deciding on to be the Democratic standard bearer in, as you mentioned, a crowded and ranked choice election. What's significant here is it doesn't matter that much because the thing is, it is extremely likely that both Andrew Cuomo and Zoran Mamdani, the reliable outside polling that's measuring like a week ago and it's been a crazy week, shows Cuomo is still up by like maybe 10 points. 12, depending what you look at at the end of ranked choice voting. Mamdani has a ton of momentum, a lot of money, brilliant messaging. It's hoping to close that gap. You know, AOC and Bernie Sanders, all that. We'll see. Whatever happens, they're both going to run in the general. And in the general, there's no ranked choice. You can make a good case for ranked choice. You cannot make a good case for having ranked choice in your primaries, but not your generals. And everyone squinted past this because it's like, well, the primary is really the whole election most of the time here, except it's not this year. We haven't mentioned Eric Adams yet. He's the sullied SCSI incumbent mayor who swore up and down every which way that he was going to run as a Democrat and he was going to show everyone after cutting a deal, as it's been widely incorrectly perceived, with Donald Trump to aid and immigration enforcement exchange for having criminal charges against him dropped involving corruption. But Eric Adams swore he was going to run as a Democrat. And then on the last possible day when you had to hand in your petitions and signatures, he said, actually, I'm running as an independent. So doing that kept a lot of other people from entering the Democratic primary. Andrew Cuomo is looming. There's an incumbent mayor there. He's saying, do you really want to run against the city's second black mayor? Like very openly and explicitly. So this all makes for a bizarre field. We'll get through this dumb primary. It will get lots of dumb attention. It will matter for how the candidates are positioned, but it'll be the same candidates either way for a five way race where whoever wins the most votes wins. And so you have Curtis Sliwa, who some listeners will remember of the Guardian Angels. He's a radio talker. He's had a very complicated personal life. He has a lot of alimony and child support. He is again the Republican nominee. He is a very smart man. He is not a serious man or a serious candidate, but it might not matter in this race. On the left, presumably you have Zoran Mamdani running possibly as the Democrat and also on the Working Families Party line, which they're holding for him in the event he does not win the Democratic primary. And then in the middle, you'll have Andrew Cuomo, the disgraced former governor, corrupt ex cop Eric Adams cutting deals with the Trump administration. And this guy, Jim Walden, who's an interesting guy, a serious lawyer, like a real person, but has no experience in government. No one's ever heard of him. Hoping that maybe he emerges as the alternative. And to win this race you'll need like what, 20something percent of the vote, maybe 30%. So you're going to have a primary that's ridiculous. Only open to registered Democrats with ranked choice nobody can make much sense of. And then you'll have a general where we'll have something of a haphazard result with three guys in the center competing for the votes. And that's where most of the votes will be there. Everyone who's registered can vote the Democratic primary. Again, if you're not a registered Democrat. All these Bernie people found this out the hard way, oh, I don't get to vote Here Zoram Mamdani has spent a lot of time encouraging people to sign up and register. To his credit, right small D democracy, like knocking on doors, getting new voters out, spreading message. But, you know, he's hoping that that'll be a thumb on the scale for how this turns out. We'll have this primary, everyone will have a bunch of commentary and punditry, and then we'll be basically back where we started and the real election will begin. And at that point, we can all say, this is grim, it's terrible, and it matters. Last thing here for New Yorkers is the good news is if you're agonizing about voting for Mandani or Cuomo for different reasons, maybe these involve Israel and Jewish things. Maybe they involve their respective politics. The hundred million scandals around Andrew Cuomo. I don't have time to do chapter and verse on and remember, the Trump people get Adams off the hook by saying you can't have charges this close to an election. And now Adams is calling people up in private and saying, don't get down with Cuomo because the Justice Department investigation, which involves the nursing home scandals, is going to mess him up right when he starts to run. Cuomo's appeal, of course, is largely Everyone is fearful of him. Grit your teeth and this is what you got. Get in line now or I'll remember later. These are deeply depressing choices for the primary. Feel free not to rank either. Remember, the stakes are fairly low, but if you really want to signify and decide, do what the Times eventually did. And this is the last piece of my long mouthful here, but there's so much ridiculous stuff happening. The Times decided last year that they were no longer going to endorse in local races. This happened after the paper backed Dan Goldman and I believe the Intercept. And I don't want to get it wrong, but I think the American Prospect ran a long sort of apple dump story about Goldman's family connections to The Times publisher A.G. sulzberger. Wasn't much there. It was like this Jew went to this elite school while this other Jewish guy was there. You know what this means after the Times of Doris Goldman and that crowded race. And then he decided quietly, we're not endorsing in local races anymore. Which is pathetic because this is where the paper has the most influence. They nearly decided the mayor in 2021. Catherine Garcia almost upsets Adams after winning by surprise the Times endorsement. A bunch of stuff happens I'm going to skip over, but they're embarrassed by this. They convene A panel that's like 15 representative New Yorkers, including my podcast co host Chrissy Greer, and this is going to be their pseudo endorsement. The panel basically likes Brad Lander. We haven't even brought up to this point, who's lefty Jewish, wants to present himself as the moderate reasonable guy now, but just cross endorsed with Zoram Abdani. The Times freaks out and then does a non endorsement editorial thing because they swore they weren't going to endorse this time being like, we're not saying anything and all these candidates suck and it's very depressing and Sad. But the one thing you really need to know like 400 words in is you can't rank Mamdani. They don't explain the reasoning or anything else. It's mealy mouth and ridiculous. And it's basically the owner, maybe with an assist from Mike Bloomberg, who's now given $5 million to Andrew Cuomo super PAC, overruling their own panel that was meant to hide the cowardice of the paper and the editorial board and promising it wouldn't weigh in anymore and saying, actually, here's what you gotta do. So if this all seems messy and incoherent, because it is, and thank God New Yorkers are actually fairly self sufficient, self governing people who've survived all sorts of idiot mayors and governors, despite what you may hear Donald Trump say or, you know, real world Sean Duffy, the Transportation Secretary, it's no shithole. It's a very pleasant place to be in a lot of ways despite our political leadership, but it's not doing us any favors.
- [10:54]
Sarah Longwell
Harry, whatever things happened that brought you to this podcast, I'm so happy about it. You are. Great. Just gonna start there. So let's jump in. We screened our focus groups for this show similarly to the New Jersey show that we did a couple weeks ago. So they're Democrats who are voting in the primary, which usually means they are more plugged into the race than average voters. And this is important because people yelled at me after the New Jersey Bunny. They were like, those voters didn't like Mikey Sher and she won. And I was like, yes, because these are deep primary voters who are super plugged in, so they tend to be hyper partisan. So please, please accept that caveat as you go through this discussion. Okay, so like I said, ranked choice voting has narrowed the field in this race probably to just two candidates. So it's worth doing a quick primer on what ranked choice voting is. This is where New York City voters can rank their top five choices and so there's more people than ranks. The candidate with the fewest first place votes is eliminated and their votes are redistributed contributed to their supporters next choices. And this continues until someone reaches the majority. There were eight rounds of ranked choice voting in the New York City mayoral race in 2021. Remember, it was like a little bit of a shit show, I guess. So we were wondering how these Democrats were thinking about the race at a 30,000 foot level and what was most important to them. So let's listen to what we heard. Whether we're talking about the leaders, the media. Like it just becomes who has the most money, rules the game. And I think that's just what I'm really sick of seeing. The first of all is a backbone.
- [12:26]
Harry Siegel
In the spine to stand up to Washington. And everything is happening.
- [12:30]
Sarah Longwell
That's been reiterated by a number of.
- [12:33]
Harry Siegel
People in the call.
- [12:35]
Sarah Longwell
And the other thing is the economic stance, because there are candidates that promise all these things. And this is typical of politicians.
- [12:44]
Harry Siegel
I promise to do all these things, but who pays for it? You know, I want to reduce taxes, I want to cut costs, but there's.
- [12:52]
Sarah Longwell
An economic cost to it as well.
- [12:54]
Harry Siegel
That'S associated with that.
- [12:57]
Sarah Longwell
My biggest selling point will be somebody who is willing to stand up to DC and stand up to Donald Trump and somebody with experience. Crime on the sidewalks, crime on the subway. You know, a homeless man stabbed and killed three people on the upper First Avenue. I missed it by a very short margin. I was almost at that bus stop where the woman got stabbed. I was one bus stop away. And I almost went to that bus stop. Not at the exact moment, but very close. And I say, there but for the grace of God go I, because now I'm terrified of everyone. Like you're at a bus stop, who's going to pull out a butcher knife. You know, you're walking down the street, you can't be on your phone. I just think the city is just extremely scary. And I've lived here since I'm 22 years old. I'm 73 now. I've never been so frightened on the subway. I've had people chase me on the platform. I mean, it's very frightening. And the people are letting in the homeless people in the subway. And I said to the guy at the toll booth, why are you letting them in? Well, I don't want him to hurt me. He said, so anyway, I'm just worried about us all. We have to be so vigilant. You can't relax. I'm afraid to Sit in the park. I feel a lot safer, as crazy.
- [14:15]
Harry Siegel
As that sounds, just because of surveillance and things of that nature. But I do think that all this crime at this level in a big city has been occurring consistently over the years. It might have been breaks with leadership, but I feel like it's just documented more so we see more of it. But I don't really think, at least from my vantage point, that things are any different.
- [14:36]
Sarah Longwell
I think that New York City is full of that and has always been. I think the issue that matters the most to me at least, is crime. I see it more and more every day. I actually got robbed last summer and.
- [14:49]
Harry Siegel
I was really disheartened by the police.
- [14:51]
Sarah Longwell
I felt like they did a terrible job.
- [14:53]
Harry Siegel
Right when they found out where I was, they said, it's because of the neighborhood you were in.
- [14:57]
Sarah Longwell
I was in Chelsea.
- [14:58]
Harry Siegel
I was at a gay bar.
- [14:59]
Sarah Longwell
But right when they heard the name.
- [15:01]
Harry Siegel
Of the bar, it was over.
- [15:03]
Sarah Longwell
It was like, yeah, we don't really care.
- [15:06]
Harry Siegel
You know, you put yourself in that situation.
- [15:08]
Sarah Longwell
I was like, I was in Chelsea. Like, this is a very nice neighborhood. Clearly I was targeted. And then when I gave a description, they're like, oh, we can give you like a lineup. And I was like, the person had a mask on, so like, how would that work? And they're like, well, if you know, the height and like, I'm like, I can't get someone arrested because they're 6 foot, black and slim. I look at the market rate of what my apartment is, you know, I live in a one bedroom and the market rate is, you know, astronomical, you know, and, you know, it's a pre war building. It's, it's nice. But the market rate shouldn't be like $3,800, you know, either. So those issues, you know, are top of mind the crime, the petty crime. I don't, I work from home a lot these days, so I don't commute as much. And when I do commute, you know, I find there are a lot of folks that do obviously need, you know, mental health and other welfare services and also education. People were talking about like Washington and Trump, but I think the focus should be really on New York for the selection and the quality of life in New York. I think New York is becoming more and more unaffordable. I used to live in the city, now I live in Brooklyn. You know, I don't have to keep on moving further away from where I want to be or from my job. So crime and housing affordability, these sound like Brand new issues in New York. Does that sound right to you, that these are the issues defining the election?
- [16:37]
Harry Siegel
It certainly does, I think. Crime and public safety more broadly, which also encompasses protests and disruptions and traffic deaths sometimes. And all that stuff is always pretty high on people's minds. It's like what the tabloids cover and what they're there for, death sheets in certain ways and all that. Part of what further weirded out this race is that the corrupt mayor is now on his fourth police commissioner for less than three years, and this one has been reasonably competent. And I've seen anecdotally in the polling to where the center of the conversation is shifted pretty clearly. It's not that crime has gone away or safety concerns, but, like, affordability, which is like a constant pressure. Right. And crime is like a sharp pain, if you will, really seems to be the driving issue now. And you can feel those dynamics and actually how the candidates have evolved over the course of this race. Andrew Cuomo, for instance, came in with a city in crisis appeal that was basically like, you know, outtakes from Taxi Driver. You don't want to walk down the stairs at night because you don't know what's on the other side of them, into the trance of darkness, grimness. And he's now very much shifted his crisis from crime to Donald Trump, I think, as he's following the polling and the shape of this election. But like, as these issues compete, after a long period where Eric Adams himself an ex cop, has constantly assured people the city's turned a corner and things are getting better and has not been believed, the murder number this year is incredibly low. It'll be the lowest in decades if it holds up. But felony assaults are still very elevated. A bunch of other things since before the pandemic, which, of course, Papa Andrew Cuomo, the honorary dad of New York, saw the state through, as he likes to frame all that in his own run. But I felt very much like the voices I heard there sound like the voices I hear all the time and around the city. And if you combine them, it's sometimes the same person sort of shifting what's at the top of their mind, and they're sort of fretting or obsessing or thinking most actively about just depending on how their own life is going, what they're seeing. And there's no question when some big, terrible thing happens and a guy goes across town, across the city, stabbing people, and the police can't seem to find him, and eventually someone calls him in, and that's what happens? This is all people can think about for some period of time, and that tends to dominate. You know, these are like common urban nightmares. If you live in a very dense space, you think a little like, I don't want to fall in front of a train. And if someone is shoved in front of a train, that can dominate even when the numbers are pretty good. This is nothing like the New York 70s. But this continues to be one of the leading concerns. I think at this point, it's behind both affordability and standing up to this federal government, which, interestingly, is getting closer and closer to, like, direct clashes between layers of law enforcement everywhere except New York, where the mayor has a special deal with the president. His top cronies in the department are golfing with him and, like, cutting side deals to keep the military out of New York on golf courses with Trump. According to the reporting of the New York Post, which I trust here because it's like Trump's House paper. These are very weird times, and those are very much the litany of concerns on people's minds. And lastly, the mood is grim. Is the city going in the right direction? Numbers haven't been above 25% in several years now. And even if the economy is sort of stabilized or the crime numbers are plateaued or starting to go down, there's a feeling that something isn't right, that nobody has managed to get a handle on. Except, to some extent, Zora Mandani is running a super optimistic. We can have more of everything. Many more things will be free, Your life will be easier, the city will be more affordable, we'll treat people more decently. In premise, at least, is wonderful. Like, who would be against any of that? But, you know, if you start thinking whatsoever seriously about it, raises some gigantic questions about the practicality of it passing and the expenses it would create. If so, I'm more worried about the first because I don't think we'd ever get to the second.
- [20:41]
Sarah Longwell
You mentioned Trump, and there was a through line through the groups where there was this, like, I want them to stand up to Trump. You know, I want to be able to fight back. But here's the thing. New York City led the urban shift toward Donald Trump in the last presidential election. He got 30% of the vote there in 2024, after 18% in 2016 and 23% in 2020. Why do you think that is?
- [21:04]
Harry Siegel
Percentages lie here. I work in a newsroom, so I spend all sorts of time.
- [21:08]
Sarah Longwell
Tell me more.
- [21:09]
Harry Siegel
Thinking about charts. What happened is I'm going To start with Al Sharpton. The guys in my youth who I assume by the time I was a grown man would be long forgotten. Curtis Lee was there too, Rudy Giuliani, and they just never went away. It's weird. Maybe there's something to do with the Internet or something, I don't know. But Al Sharpton kept shrinking the Democratic Party around him while his own base remained steady. And people forget he actually, before he ran for president, ran for mayor himself in a non ranked choice Democratic primary, came this close to forcing a runoff running against the Democrat to challenge Giuliani in his reelection thing. And he actually decided not to do a runoff because his plan was to flex his political power, not that he actually wanted to be mayor. This brings us to Donald Trump and they of course share an advisor in Roger Stone who advised Al Sharpton in his presidential run in 2004. Now mostly forgotten, but it was brilliant. He hijacked all the TV time, figured out how to use the debates to his advantage with Stone's advice and like sort of set a template up for the TV hijacker candidate. Trump has a lot of that. Andrew Yang. But to get back to Trump in New York, listen, he didn't get any more votes. The same number of people turned out for him, people who'd shown up in the last two elections with him on the ballot for the Democrat. Just stay at home. They said, I don't like any of these people. Forget about it. And that is his percentage increase. He did not get bigger. He shrank the pool around him here as more people just felt like this is too depressing. These choices are not viable to me. Didn't vote for Trump, didn't vote for the Democrat and disappeared.
- [22:41]
Sarah Longwell
Interesting.
- [22:43]
Harry Siegel
That is why his gains are as substantial as they are. And there's absolutely a different and more Trumpy energy. The city feels like less of a total bubble. And it's the only place I've ever lived or known. I'm an American on paper, but I live in this 51st state on my little island. It's what I'm used to, it's what I know. But there's an exhaustion with what the Democratic Party has provided and how it can deliver. People have not become red billed, are not becoming MAGA people necessarily. Although some people have those things happen who just say forget about this or I simply can't. Either way, got it.
- [23:17]
Sarah Longwell
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- [25:43]
Harry Siegel
Really should on a global scale, not.
- [25:46]
Sarah Longwell
Just the local elections. Look at funding and limit how much.
- [25:51]
Harry Siegel
Private donors they can receive because they're.
- [25:54]
Sarah Longwell
Not governing for us. I'm leaning towards Cuomo personally because I know he's done it before and also because I know some of the people personally that were involved in his scandals. I'm involved with local politics. I've been with HK Dem since it.
- [26:09]
Harry Siegel
Was the McManus Club.
- [26:11]
Sarah Longwell
I mean, I'm talking about since I was 18 years old. So I know some of his accusers, and I mean, I've been lied to by some of them. So I do give him a lot more grace than a lot of people who are not personally involved. I don't know him personally, but I know that he knows how to throw down and he knows the ins and outs of government. And I think that when he left the way he did, he did that because he was putting the city itself and the state before his own personal interests, which is something that I'd like to see in more politicians. This is allergies. I'm not getting choked up.
- [26:46]
Harry Siegel
I'm not crying over Andrew Kwong.
- [26:47]
Sarah Longwell
You know, I've been embarrassed.
- [26:49]
Harry Siegel
Yesterday I was with Gen Z people. They were all like, 21. They're all Zoran. They all love him. I actually have a lot of respect for him, and I'm a Jew. I don't think he's anti Semitic. I don't. I think he's pro, pro people, period. And I think he's a good guy. My only problem with him, I hate to sound like an old fart. We're in a really bad situation here. This is not the time to bring on a Kumbaya guy who promises free buses and free subways. That is not the issue right now. We need someone to beat the hell out of Trump. I'm probably going to pull the lever for Cuomo, because you know what?
- [27:25]
Sarah Longwell
During COVID he kept me from killing myself.
- [27:28]
Harry Siegel
And I know he's flawed. He's very flawed, But I think he can do it. I think he's going to stand up to Trump and give him the middle finger. And that's what we're lacking right now. I'm leaning towards voting for Cuomo. I think he was a very effective governor.
- [27:44]
Sarah Longwell
I liked a lot of the stuff.
- [27:45]
Harry Siegel
That he does, especially in terms of infrastructure improvements.
- [27:49]
Sarah Longwell
I think he's been able to get things done. He was governor during Trump's last administration.
- [27:55]
Harry Siegel
And he wanted to go toe to toe. And I think he's going to.
- [27:59]
Sarah Longwell
Once again, I think he's going to be effective. And people are talking about freezing rents.
- [28:04]
Harry Siegel
And stuff like that.
- [28:05]
Sarah Longwell
Just like, I don't really think it's realistic.
- [28:08]
Harry Siegel
I do have more negative to say than positive about Cuomo, but I think that ultimately that's how most people's mindset is going to be with, like, okay.
- [28:18]
Sarah Longwell
At least we know him.
- [28:19]
Harry Siegel
At least we know his brother. We know the family name, and not everybody is as privy or informed or knowledgeable about his true past. I mean, I'm born from Cuomo because.
- [28:30]
Sarah Longwell
He'S being realistic about what needs to be done. And he's been in the position. And yes, there are past scandals. Please, if we're going to dig into every candidate's scandals, every politician scandals, it's going to be a laundry list of God knows what kind of dirt. And I, I don't necessarily, I'm not, you know, forgiving those or saying that those are not wrong, but we just need someone to lead this damn city to be the greatest city in the world as we've always been. Okay, Harry, I gotta tell you, I do lots and lots of focus groups. I do tons with Trump voters. And those voters sounded exactly like Trump voters, explaining why despite all of Trump's flaws, they still gotta vote for him. So here's my question for you. The real streak in my focus groups when we were leading up to Trump was sort of a nostalgia for the first Trump, like 2018 economy. Were things really good under Cuomo pre Covid? Like, is that nostalgia there for him too, or is it just like, devil, you know, stuff?
- [29:32]
Harry Siegel
It's definitely some of both. New York has had a very shaky and unsteady recovery and a much worse dip under Cuomo. And he shut everything down and required everyone to wear masks and all this stuff without getting into any of that. It took the city a lot longer to recover than the country at large or most places. The crime numbers are just recovering now, long after the rest of the nation corrected whatever spikes had occurred. So prior to that, before the pandemic, weirdly, Cuomo is sort of the guy who was there before the Cuomo, who sort of messed things up and also passed a whole series of criminal justice reforms, starting with bail reform, that are still getting widely fought over and fought out. And that he's now saying, they didn't do this the right way, they went too far. But the spirit of what I did was right. I was right all along and the lefties messed it up, which is always where he ends up. Yeah, he sounds a lot like Trump. There's a lot of Trump tone and people who are supporting him. And in some ways there's also this question of whether this is like a hold on or a change election, right. That people want to dream big and compare Mamdani to Obama and we can have more and better in our politics. And younger voters overwhelmingly are like, look at these old, worn out creeps. Why can't we do better? And I get that as a question. You Know, CYA usually stands for one thing with politicians. I think for a lot of voters it's like, consider your alternatives. And there is the, yeah, everyone has scandals. How much worse can he get? At least he's a proven quality. Thank you. And are these all triple crime people in your focus groups? I'll explain.
- [31:11]
Sarah Longwell
Yeah.
- [31:12]
Harry Siegel
So voters in New York who voted in the last three primaries get referred to as triple crime voters. And like, you know, they're going to.
- [31:19]
Sarah Longwell
Turn out they have not all voted in the last three primaries. Not all of them.
- [31:24]
Harry Siegel
Check. A whole part of Mamdani's theory is political pros in New York almost always focus on triple prime voters who voted in like the last three primaries. Yeah, because the theory is not that many young people show up. Sort of a known universe. Like you almost know what the denominator is and thus what number you got to get to. And this theory is I can bring new people in and that changes the math and can change it bigly. And like he has these volunteers who are door knocking all over the city and these people are like really enthusiastic and they felt totally cut off from our politics at this point. So the ones who were a little older first by Bloomberg, he was ultra wealthy and sort of paid New Yorkers to check out of their own affairs in a bunch of ways. Like traditionally politicians get bribed. He was bribing politicians to sort of bend politics in his direction. And then when the Democratic establishment finally came back, they were so eager to do business. This didn't feel open and appealing. It felt like very fake posters and signifying from de Blasio in particular. And Mamdani, tonally, at least is drawing a ton of new energy in. And of course he's exaggerating this and he wants to take every Internet sign of success and look at how many doors we've knocked and exaggerate this. Because perception to some extent is reality. He succeeded in having this perceived as a two person race, which is very helpful to him. And to go back to where you started, part of why these alternatives seem unappealing to many New Yorkers, including you, me, the Times editorial board and people who are watching the race, all these sort of more normal candidates with more detailed policies, like within the existing sphere of reality. But we're not the three term ex governor or like the super bright young kid whose only accomplishment in elected office to this point legislatively was a free bus pilot program. And this is like liberals and liberalism at their worst. There's a pilot program somewhere we can expand this thing 1000 fold. We've scientifically proven it. What could go wrong? And it's ridiculous. And that's taken a lot of people who don't love Cuomo are going to hold their nose and pull for him. And if the polls hold up, that is going to be enough. In the Democratic primary with only those registered voters, right, not even like Republicans and independents to see him through at least this phase of the election. We'll see.
- [33:36]
Sarah Longwell
Drivers who switch and save with Progressive could save hundreds.
- [33:39]
Harry Siegel
With that kind of money, you could go big time on a fancy water bottle with ultra titanium alloy metal. You're not sure why you need all that.
- [33:47]
Sarah Longwell
I mean it just holds water, but you're getting it anyway because if you're hiking near an active volcano and you accidentally drop the bottle into molten lava.
- [33:55]
Harry Siegel
Your water will stop, still be icy cold.
- [33:58]
Sarah Longwell
Switch to Progressive and you could save.
- [34:00]
Harry Siegel
Big time for water bottles.
- [34:03]
Sarah Longwell
Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not.
- [34:05]
Harry Siegel
Available in all states. Potential savings will vary.
- [34:08]
Sarah Longwell
Okay, I want to move on to zoran Mamdani, the 33 year old Democratic Socialist state assemblyman. What he lacks in experience, he makes up for in big ideas. Some call them ambitious, I call them crazy, fantastical, whatever. As you just said, they include eliminating bus fares, freezing rent on rent, stabilized apartments and opening a series of city run grocery stores. Let's listen to how voters talk about Madani. We have a choice between big money politics or Mondami, who just has no impressive or otherwise legislative experience. Promising the moon. I think we're going to be back in a situation which would make the current situation worse, which is less police presence on the subway, more taxation.
- [35:05]
Harry Siegel
New York City is too big of a place, too complicated a place to have somebody who's had nothing, who hasn't led even a Boy Scout troop. And I really don't even know his name.
- [35:17]
Sarah Longwell
It's funny how everyone's, a lot of people are saying lack of experience. So experience as much as, yes, I'd love for politics for people to have experience going in and knowing how systems work, that's sort of not how it works anymore. I find he is a voice of the people. I appreciate his campaign on wealth inequality. The rent is too damn high and it feels like he's getting momentum. He's speaking to the people and he feels like a voice that would stand up to corporations and to Trump and fight against them. And we need fighters right now. We need people to fight them in court, we need people to fight them in politics, whatever the systems are. He does have a lot of interesting Policies and agendas that he wants to work on that I agree with in theory. But I'm worried that he will fall flat by promising too much, not being able to deliver. And after being in the private sector of business for so many years and then seeing how the city works, I found it like a fourth grade level. And I hate to say it like that, but I could see opportunity for this person to come in and try, because the way that local government is organized, it's not that intelligible. Let's try the voice of the people. If it doesn't work, at least we said we tried. Right? My biggest concern is that he's promising.
- [36:43]
Harry Siegel
The world and he's just not going.
- [36:45]
Sarah Longwell
To be able to deliver everything he says.
- [36:47]
Harry Siegel
I'm like, you know what?
- [36:47]
Sarah Longwell
That's a great policy, That's a great.
- [36:49]
Harry Siegel
Policy, but is it realistic?
- [36:51]
Sarah Longwell
And I don't think it is like freezing the rent.
- [36:54]
Harry Siegel
That's only on rent, stabilized apartments.
- [36:56]
Sarah Longwell
So that would just be for a 10th or 20% of the city.
- [37:02]
Harry Siegel
I was just talking to someone who lives in a luxury building and they.
- [37:04]
Sarah Longwell
Were saying, oh, he's going to freeze the rent.
- [37:06]
Harry Siegel
That doesn't apply to you.
- [37:09]
Sarah Longwell
The other issue with him is I was just reading about how if someone jumps the turnstile or goes in without.
- [37:18]
Harry Siegel
Paying, he said that's not a crime and shouldn't be punishable.
- [37:22]
Sarah Longwell
So that really worries me because is anyone going to pay? And the MTA is already losing money. Yeah. I like him because I see a lot of, like, outward leftism in him and not many of the other candidates have that. I consider myself kind of one of them. So I like it when leftists get their way into the Democratic Party and stuff.
- [37:47]
Harry Siegel
And I really like his ideas.
- [37:50]
Sarah Longwell
I think they're small enough that they might be able to work. Like some of his plans might extend past, like, the power of what a mayor can do. But I do appreciate, like, how ambitious they are. And I do appreciate him, like, fighting for these things. And if you aim high and you're compromising in the middle, I think it's still like a good place to be. I like him because he's not as, like, beholden to corporate donors or other large donors in the way that other, like, more establishment Democrat candidates might be. And I also feel like he's very focused on, like, just the, the people that live in the city, like, making New York affordable for like, actual New Yorkers. I feel like it's just becoming even more and more unaffordable. I was very impressed with his stance and his confidence. And I believe that he will come in bells ringing and just blazing ahead. I just liked everything about him, every idea he had. And of course, I don't know that he can really do these things. It seemed kind of like a fairy tale, but like I like fairy tales, sometimes they come true. I think I'm an optimist at heart, but I'm also more skeptical than I've ever been in my entire life. So I'm adopting part of me that last voter gets me, man. It seems like kind of a fairy tale, but I like fairy tales. Like us optimists, you know, we want to believe. But you wrote about your experience interviewing Mamdani and said that his circular argument for how he'll accomplish all of his grand promises is to look at how successful his campaign has been. And it does seem to be fair, quite well executed, especially from a media kind of social media perspective. But you also said you didn't think Mamdani should or will be the next mayor, but you said that his skeptics should consider why he's bringing new people and fresh air into the city's often chokingly stale politics. So two part question. How has his campaign been successful? And what has historically made New York City politics stale?
- [39:59]
Harry Siegel
So we've had sort of accidental left wing candidates, to some extent centrist ones for a few cycles where different weird events have intervened. There was a woman, Diane Morales, running last time, who also had excellent posters and was generating a great deal of enthusiasm from younger voters and the left. And she was not super well informed on some issues was my experience from interviewing her. She had a meltdown where her staff tried to organize and she fought this, which is very complicated when you're in that position. And a bunch of other things went horribly wrong. And the result of all this was this very late panic where Maya Wiley, who finished second in the first round of ranked choice voting and eventually third, ended up as the emergency pick of the left very, very late. And AOC endorsed her very late. And she came in, by the way, pretty late this time around. This is all weird and confusing. Mamdani, by contrast, is like really smart guy, preternaturally gifted communicator. This isn't just social media tricks. He's impressive directly on a screen. The people are representing him in a room. He's smart and interesting and he did well enough that he sort of got all these second tier success effects where people wanted to book him as he'd do something that made a bit of news and then people Wanted to book him because he was trending and interesting people start volunteering. Then other people want to be there because it feels like a scene or a moment and those things are exciting. And then a lot of this sort of generates its own momentum and frustrated other candidates who sort of had a different strategy and were pulling some of their punches where he wasn't and waiting to emerge late. No one's going to pay attention until the end. Do we need to save until we go up on television? And while they were waiting, he pushed through. The question remains in New York if there's some ceiling in these primaries or in general elections on fairly far left candidates. And actually the policies that came up in your focus groups with Mamdani in a lot of ways, like free buses, I think are sort of reasonable and smaller bore in some ways. Red stabilized stock is like half the city stock. De Blasio froze that several times. Maybe that's caused deferred issues for landlords they're dealing with now. But he also says all the other candidates talk about housing plans that involve zoning changes and finding new land and what developers can do. His is like, the city's going to build 200,000 units of union built new housing. Like, we're the federal government. It's incredibly expensive and ambitious. Basically free childcare for all, basically all ages. Like these are vast things. De Blasio had pre K and that was his signature thing and a tax hike for it. He didn't get the tax hike, but he got the money from Cuomo and Albany for that one thing. Politico estimates Mamdani's promises would cost 20 times what that cost. Those are incredible baffling numbers. And then lastly, and this is too much to get into in full, there are these massive shifts with the Democratic Party involving Israel and Mamdani, whose supporters are suddenly like, it's not fair. They keep asking about Israel. Why are Cuomo and these other people obsessed with this? And by the way, I do think Cuomo is in unhealthy ways obsessed with this and is used to his political advantage sometimes very cynically. But Mamdani's origin story in politics as he tells it, and he's a very gifted storyteller, these are not accidents. Right. His father's a chaired anti colonial professor at Columbia. Is the BDS is what led him into politics. That this is the great moral crusade. And he won't frame it quite this way. Like he won't say defund the police while sort of making clear where his interests are there. But he thinks the idea of having Israel as a Jewish state is fundamentally racist and poisonous in ways I don't think you'd apply to any other country, region or area. He's utterly committed to the idea that it has to be delegitimized, boycotted, sanctioned, removed from global life. He said he'll arrest Netanyahu if he sets foot in New York, inciting a treaty that the US Isn't even party to. And I think he's gotten a tremendous pass on those ideas because amongst cosmopolitan, more secular Jews and the Orthodox Jewish vote is a different story there. Who play a significant role in New York City's politics. And we have the most Jews of any city in the world outside of Israel. Million voters here. And he has gotten a pass. As people have squinted past this because they don't like Netanyahu, they're uncomfortable with him, with his sorts of alignments with Trump. They're very upset about Trump and this nice young guy who's challenging all those things. They don't want to think too hard about what he's saying. But when you stop and do this. And he just got into a bunch, really for the first time, because he was defending the phrase globalize the intifada at some length and mentioning that the Holocaust Museum had used the word intifada at some point. The idea that New York City is going to elect someone who's going to run the police department here, where we've had really big protests and police abuses, significant ones at some of these protests and sometimes police letting people run riot, so to speak, figuratively or literally. Somebody who says globalize the intifad is a fine idea and a concept in charge of maintaining public order is a little bonkers. It is helpful that Trump is very bonkers and these mounds are getting tested in all directions. Brad Lander, the leading Jewish candidate in the race, Mandani, would be the first Muslim mayor. Andrew Cuomo, of course, is Italian and wants to run on a anti Semitism platform. You can make up all that what you will, and some of it seems very opportunistic to me. But Brad Lander just got arrested going to an immigration court for the third time. And this is not a work or a Kabuki exactly, but it was certainly his plan to spotlight the crazy stuff that's happening there with federal agents from different agencies that sometimes you can figure out, oh, that one's with treasury, that one's with ice, and sometimes you just can't with masks on in a public building waiting to snatch people up outside of Courtrooms. So he came in with the intent of getting arrested. He did. And he keeps talking about this free speech. Obviously, what they actually mean is civil disobedience. He locked arms with somebody they were trying to arrest, didn't let go. So, like blocking a van, he's stopping these federal agents from doing what they're doing. And that might be very righteous. I happen to think it very much is. But it's also purposeful, meant to draw attention both to this cause and to his campaign. And these guys won't answer simple, direct questions like, would your NYPD arrest people if they stop ICE fans from leaving with detainees? And I'm not sure that's where the line should be. But I do know that most New Yorkers and most voters, if they stop and think about this, and they're finally getting forced to want there to be some set of rules that are actually applied. And it's not just that my enemies are so bad, whether your enemies are the Free Palestine people or the Trump administration or whatever else that, well, if it's them, the rules don't count anymore. And that is more and more openly, as a closing appeal, what Mamdani is offering. And I think this interview where he said the globalized Intifada thing, he's gotten so high on his own supply, so used to getting nothing but, like, easy and loving press and people not stopping and thinking that hard about what he's saying and what the implications are. And it got so much credit for standing by his first convictions and everyone else was pulling their punches. And he called it like he meant it and said, more is possible. And here we are. That this was the moment where it's not that there's some limit on what the left can do. I really don't think there is. I think they're doing tremendous political work. The mainstream Democrats have abandoned the Republicans don't even try in New York and deserve credit for that, for organizing and trying. But at a certain point, they have some power and they have to actually account for their actions. This isn't just abstract. This guy could really be mayor. Wait, he said that? I don't know if I want that in a mayor. And I think a lot of people, even as they're seeing he's closing ads and he has a lot of money to spend, which hasn't been the case for past farther left candidates. The same way, are pausing and considering what some of the implications of his ideas are. And when you get past the poster, they're a lot to take in. And sometimes I Think very different from how they sound when such a brilliant communicator is formulating them and only expressing what is most nice, most appealing and most free about them.
- [48:18]
Sarah Longwell
Yeah. And I will just note, it was my colleague Tim Miller, it was on the Bulwark podcast, who asked him whether or not language like globalize the intifada, whether or not that makes him uncomfortable. And that's when he, you know, I think he went through some sort of mealy mouths. But also he invoked himself the Holocaust Museum and said, well, they have this definition. Like it was a pretty, like, mask off moment and Cuomo has jumped on it and the Holocaust Museum has responded. Do you think it was a fatal error, him sort of saying that?
- [48:54]
Harry Siegel
No, I think he's a very good communicator, smart candidate, and actually serious guy in some ways. I think it was a real error and one that a more experienced and small c. Very small c conservative politician would have avoided. I think he's gotten so much credit, and deservedly so, for showing up everywhere, taking difficult questions from skeptical audiences and showing he can get through that. But he did not realize this is his first time going through this exercise. Like, he won a primary in the farthest left assembly district, like the lower house of the state legislature in New York, like five years ago, running citywide, talking to a national audience. Suddenly these are big new things. And he's done a really impressive job with that. And I don't think he's learned quite how to trim his sales. And this is the first time he's had the wind smack into those sails the wrong way. The boat starts shaking precariously and had to deal. And it's coming very late in the day. Early voting has started. I'd be very surprised if he makes more errors like that. But he says, my campaign proves I can do it. They have. They've knocked on over a million doors. I see his volunteers everywhere. I talk to them. They're like smart people who aren't reading from a script. I tell them why I think they're wrong and what I think. I'm not ranking him for these reasons. And I listen to what they have to say. So I don't think it was a fatal moment. I think it was a clarifying one. For some people who've just been squinting or half paying attention, you're glancing at headlines, you're seeing half of an ad or catching a segment on tv and like, this guy seems nice and pretty serious. And you're not catching an error in what he's saying. Really for the first time.
- [50:30]
Sarah Longwell
Yeah. Well, I'm glad Tim had him on and asked him that question because it was clarifying. And you know what? I'll just say as a point of personal privilege, my boy Tim's getting. People are mad. They're saying that he platformed this guy, and I'm like, he interviewed him like Ben Shapiro platformed Candace Owens. Right. That's different. Tim asked a question in an interview. Who is in the top two for mayor of New York. And so is quite newsworthy to ask a question of drivers who switch and save with Progressive could save hundreds.
- [51:00]
Harry Siegel
With that kind of money, you could go big time on a fancy water bottle with ultra titanium alloy metal. You're not sure why you need all that.
- [51:08]
Sarah Longwell
I mean, it just holds water. But you're getting it anyway because if you're hiking near an active volcano and you accidentally drop the bottle into molten.
- [51:15]
Harry Siegel
Lava, your water will still be icy cold.
- [51:18]
Sarah Longwell
Switch to Progressive and you could save.
- [51:20]
Harry Siegel
Big time for water bottles. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states. Potential savings will vary.
- [51:28]
Sarah Longwell
Anyway, there are several other candidates in this race, nearly all of them better than Cuomo and Mundani, in my opinion. But it would take a big polling miss for one of them to break into the top two. But let's listen to some of the candidates people had on their minds besides Cuomo and Mandani. Here are our honorable mentions that came up in the groups. Brad Lander is an honorable mention. He got my second spot. I was thinking of Adrienne Adams. For me, it's between her and soreness.
- [52:01]
Harry Siegel
I really like Brad Landers. That's who I think should be the mayor. He's definitely my number one.
- [52:07]
Sarah Longwell
He has a lot of the similar.
- [52:09]
Harry Siegel
Policies as Mandani, but he has the experience. He was the city controller.
- [52:14]
Sarah Longwell
A lot of people are saying, oh.
- [52:15]
Harry Siegel
I would stand up to Trump. He's the only one who actually has.
- [52:18]
Sarah Longwell
He's the one who caught Elon trying.
- [52:21]
Harry Siegel
To take $80 million from New York's.
- [52:23]
Sarah Longwell
Budget, and he's the one who got it back. But Lander is ranked first on my ballot. Stringer is second. He got a raw deal with the woman who accused him of sexual harassment. Both very principled and capable people. They're not tracking so far in the reshuffling down ballot. Could it change? I'm not sure. But it's interesting to me that somebody like my reading got no attention. Who has vastly more experience than Mandani and a record to prove it.
- [52:59]
Harry Siegel
I did that test.
- [53:01]
Sarah Longwell
Did you do that test you guys.
- [53:02]
Harry Siegel
Like when you write what's important to you and it tells you who's your candidate. And I'm like, either Zoran or Andrew.
- [53:08]
Sarah Longwell
Like, I'm.
- [53:09]
Harry Siegel
I'm on those two guys. And it came up with that boring guy. Well, I forgot. I think you just said his name, but I just couldn't watch.
- [53:16]
Sarah Longwell
I was falling asleep.
- [53:17]
Harry Siegel
But supposedly that guy is worth an.
- [53:19]
Sarah Longwell
Honorable mention by me. Who?
- [53:21]
Harry Siegel
Brad.
- [53:22]
Sarah Longwell
Brad Lander. Is he really?
- [53:25]
Harry Siegel
He's like dead walking.
- [53:27]
Sarah Longwell
Yeah.
- [53:27]
Harry Siegel
And the thing is, he doesn't have a chance. But if you actually look at what.
- [53:31]
Sarah Longwell
He stands for, he's.
- [53:32]
Harry Siegel
He's actually pretty great. I just.
- [53:34]
Sarah Longwell
He doesn't have a shot, but he's worth mentioning, so. So the test that this last person was talking about was actually put out by your publication. Right. We'll link to it in the show notes. But that's something you guys do.
- [53:46]
Harry Siegel
Yeah, yeah, it's real fast. You say 15 of your views and you see which candidate's views. We ask them the same questions. Matched up most closely with it. It's got bobbleheads. And a lot of people were surprised by their answers. This guy, Brad Lander. Brad came in thinking he was going to be where Mamdani is now. And they just crossed endorsed. This is the first time in our 2 ranked choice mayoral elections we've had a true cross endorsement. Last time around, Andrew Yang, who knew he wasn't going to win, endorsed Katherine Garcia, and she declined to return the favor. But Brad Lander and Zoram Mamdani just cross endorsed each other.
- [54:22]
Sarah Longwell
And that means they're telling people to rank.
- [54:24]
Harry Siegel
Rank me 1 and rank this guy 2 and don't rank Andrew at all.
- [54:28]
Sarah Longwell
Yeah, got it.
- [54:29]
Harry Siegel
And this is tactical. And they were already sort of closely aligned. We'll see what this means. And Lander, as I mentioned earlier, is the leading Jewish candidate in the race. So that's interesting. And maybe wins protection to Mamdani. Maybe Hertz Lander really remains to be seen. Lander, as mentioned earlier, was just arrested by ice, which wildly then claimed DHS that he'd assaulted the police officers, even though the whole thing's on film. I'm so old. I remember when the federal government didn't just make stuff up in random tweets that said, who are you going to believe, me or your lion eyes? But this was there. But Brad, who's been a progressive stalwart throughout his political career, came to the New York editorial board in December, I believe, which is a collection of journalists that was interviewing These candidates and the first thing he said out the bat and he wanted to be first, was progressives got it wrong about crime. And that's when crime was definitely the top issue in the polls and all that. We need to do better. We've seen, we've heard. And then perversely again, Eric Adams very belatedly getting around to doing something on crime rather than just trumpet improvements that no one in New York sees or believes took the wind out of those sails. And that's part of what helped Mamdani pass them. And plainly their politics are very similar. The Mamdanis are more ambitious. There's natural correspondence between them. And Brad is vastly more experienced. He's in a citywide office right now. You know, he's been in the political game for a long time. He ran big housing organizations before that. And he seems to have just sort of lost his shot. It seems like in some sense he's running now to maybe be first deputy mayor in a Mandani administration. We'll see the other ZM in the race, Zellner Myre, who also came up there. He's not that much older. I think he's 37. Right. But he's a third term state senator who's passed some impressive and ambitious legislation including, by the way, getting New York early voting, which has started and is awesome. So you don't have to wait in a long line on election day when it's supposed to be 100 degrees this year, you know, son of immigrants, black guy in Crown Heights won office by beating an Eric Adams protege who was an incumbent who was part of the IDC that helped Cuomo work with Republicans to foil Democrats back when he was governor. He's perfect on paper a whole number of ways. He's so bright. His plans are good, he's appealing, he can speak, he just, he never launched at all. It was one of those chicken and egg things. He needed to show support to get money to build an operation to get more support. This never came together. The Attorney general, Andrew Cuomo, longtime enemy, Tish Gaines, also Donald Trump, longtime enemy Queens guys again, sort of drafts. Adrian Adams, who came up the council speaker extremely late. You gotta run. And Adrienne, who's very impressive on paper but has never run citywide. She becomes the council speaker. That's a backdoor boss's and council members decision. She's like, you should vote for me because I don't want the job. I won't bring scandal. And that's great. In a head to head race against Derek Adams or Andrew Cuomo. I've done this, I know things, my values are decent. I'm not going to embarrass you. This isn't a head to head race. And what's crazy, and you hear it with your group, is the whole idea of ranked choice, which we only have again in primaries and special elections, which is jaw droppingly stupid. But the whole idea is you don't have to choose between your head and your heart, that you have one vote, but five choices and you could say the person you really like the most first and it won't matter because your vote will transfer. So if I really like Zondermairi, I can put him first. And if I could live with Zoramdani but don't particularly like him, which is he has a lot of enthusiasm, there's a ton of voters. You can put him fifth and you know your vote will end up there. But instead you can hear it with your group. These people who are registered Democrats who are going to vote in this contest, they want to pick a winner. Everyone loves a winner. It's very hard to get around that dynamic. And these other candidates seem like also rans and losers at this moment. And so does the Democratic establishment that they're all part of.
- [58:24]
Sarah Longwell
Yeah, for sure. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive could save hundreds.
- [58:29]
Harry Siegel
With that kind of money you could go big time on a fancy water bottle with ultra titanium alloy metal. You're not sure why you need all that. I mean it just holds water.
- [58:39]
Sarah Longwell
But you're getting it anyway because if you're hiking near an active volcano and you accidentally drop the bottle into molten.
- [58:44]
Harry Siegel
Lava, your water will still be icy cold.
- [58:48]
Sarah Longwell
Switch to Progressive and you could save.
- [58:49]
Harry Siegel
The big time for water bottles.
- [58:53]
Sarah Longwell
Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates not.
- [58:55]
Harry Siegel
Available in all states. Potential savings will vary.
- [58:58]
Sarah Longwell
I'm glad you brought up just like Ranked Choice in general because it has led to all these sort of side alliances in the race, like the one between Lander and Mandami we were just talking about. But we heard very mixed views on ranked choice voting from the voters we talked to and I like. I think the upsides of it are pretty obvious. You can register an opinion about all of the candidates and not worry about wasting your vote, which is something I hear that frustrates voters all the time. But your point? It is so funny that they do it in the primary and not the general. But let's listen to what voters told us about the downsides of ranked choice voting because they had a lot of feelings about the downsides I guess it's trying to come up with like, you know, five candidates.
- [59:40]
Harry Siegel
Is this.
- [59:40]
Sarah Longwell
I think there's probably two or three.
- [59:42]
Harry Siegel
I'm actually like more interested in and.
- [59:44]
Sarah Longwell
Then like trying to think of like.
- [59:46]
Harry Siegel
More after that just is a little bit too much.
- [59:48]
Sarah Longwell
I happen to hate ranked choice voting because I didn't understand the intricacies of it the first time around. Although Adams was not my first choice, he ended up becoming the mayor of New York and that's not happening again.
- [60:03]
Harry Siegel
So I think it forces you into a situation where if you're not as knowledgeable about certain candidates, I think it sways you too easily and be influenced by others. I think the ranked voting, it adds a bit of confusion and it forces people into making selections without necessarily being truly informed. So for me, you know, I know a lot about Cuomo, but does that mean that I really want him to be mayor or is it because of familiarity and being knowledgeable? So I think it adds a bit of a confusion for me.
- [60:36]
Sarah Longwell
So yeah, the first thing the mayor should do is get rid of it because I think it's a disaster. And it's also emblematic of what's wrong with the Democratic Party, which is it's chaos. It was presented as an option to be more representative of what people would want, but I think it has precisely the opposite effect. So not a lot of love for ranked choice voting there. So what do you think Harry? Is this the last time we're going to see ranked choice in New York?
- [61:08]
Harry Siegel
It will might be, sir. Thanks a lot for having me on here. I love their thoughts there. I thought they were spot on. Last daily news column which is called NYC's lousy election rules Create Lousy Choices. And the weird good news is that corrupt X cop current Mayor Eric Adams has a charter revision commission this year that he's appointed some fairly independent people too who are considering a lot of stuff. And one of the things they're considering is finally getting nonpartisan primaries to New York that would in effect replace the current ranked choice rules for parties that are only open to registered voters. And you have to register way in advance in New York. By the way, with the system where you just have a two round election and then the top three candidates would compete in the general elections which would be massively healthier. One of the giant issues here in New York is part of how Eric Adams ends up as mayor is that the map has diverged from the territory. And a big reason why is the people who show up in low turnout Democratic primaries and in non meril years and down ballot contests, but even in the mayoral contest are not the same as the city at large. And you can see it in opinion polling. You can see in how people react. And these are the people who checked out and maybe didn't vote for Trump, but also didn't vote for the Democrats. There's definitely some crossover between these groups. There have been previous efforts to get there. But this really could be the year and that could be a truly transformative thing for New York that while we're talking about defending democracy, the Big D Democrats are talking about defending democracy. The concept from this administration and so on would create a city that is modeling its own good democracy as opposed to a closed and somewhat corrupt one that just alienates people from the city's politics and its common civic life. So here's hoping we don't end up having a new version of this. Oh God. These are the candidates conversation again in a few years for this reason.
- [63:11]
Sarah Longwell
Harry Siegel, you were fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us. And thanks to all of you for listening to another episode of the Focus Group podcast. We will be back next week for our season finale, but in the meantime, remember to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, subscribe to the Bulwark on YouTube and become a Bull Work plus member at the Bulwark.com we will see you guys soon.