S5 Ep7: Raw Audio: Guys Being Dudes

Summary

The Focus Group Podcast: Episode S5 Ep7 - "Raw Audio: Guys Being Dudes"

Release Date: March 1, 2025 | Hosted by Sarah Longwell, Publisher of The Bulwark

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Introduction

In this episode of The Focus Group Podcast, host Sarah Longwell delves deep into the perspectives of young men under 30 who voted for Donald Trump in the last election. The episode, titled "Raw Audio: Guys Being Dudes," presents unfiltered discussions, shedding light on the motivations, beliefs, and cultural influences shaping this demographic. Sarah introduces the episode by highlighting her interest in understanding the rising influence of MAGA young men, their media consumption habits, political views, and cultural participation. This episode promises a raw and authentic glimpse into the thoughts of these young voters, offering listeners valuable insights into the future trajectory of the GOP and the enduring legacy of Trumpism.

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Political Alignment and Voting Behavior

The core of the discussion revolves around the participants' political identities and the factors that influenced their decision to vote for Trump.

• Health and "Make America Healthy Again":

  • Participant 1 emphasizes health as a primary concern:

    "The Make America Healthy Again movement was something that I thought was a great thing, and there was nothing from Kamala Harris about that."
    [03:26]

  • Participant 5 shares personal health improvements through diet:

    "I'm on the keto diet... I've lost £30 in a month and a half, so that's been great."
    [30:50]

• Economic Concerns and Government Overspending:

  • Participant 4 connects his background in economics to his political stance:

    "Government overspending and inefficiency, inflation and world conflicts... President Trump was going to bring solutions for all the aforementioned issues."
    [05:14]

• Foreign Policy and Immigration:

  • Participant 7 discusses immigration policies:

    "There are just so many... people that just don't deserve to be here... shelters have been getting shut down for these immigration people."
    [06:40]

• First-Time Voters:

  • Several participants, such as Participant 3 and Participant 6, mention that this was their first time voting, highlighting a shift towards Republican ideals influenced by Trump’s promises and policies.

    "It's my first time voting. Very strong Republican, Trump all the way."
    [04:48]
    "In the last election, it was my first vote I've ever been able to place."
    [05:10]

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Media Consumption and Trust in Media

Participants express varied sources for their news consumption, reflecting a mix of traditional media and digital platforms.

• Diversity in News Sources:

  • Participant 7 outlines a broad media diet:

    "I'll watch the news like Fox News, even CNN sometimes... I'll look at Donald Trump's Twitter and truth. I read, you know, Candace Owens, Ben Shapiro."
    [15:13]

  • Participant 8 prefers real-time updates via Twitter:

    "I prefer Twitter because if something is inherently wrong, there'll be a community note most of the time."
    [16:44]

• Perception of Media Bias:

  • Participant 1 critiques media sensationalism:

    "There's an implicit bias in the way they report things, especially on the news."
    [15:13]

  • Participant 3 distances from mainstream media:

    "I don't really watch mainstream media at all anymore. It's all seems really biased, really anti."
    [20:07]

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Views on Elon Musk and Doge Investment

The conversation shifts to Elon Musk and his ventures, with mixed opinions among participants.

• Admiration for Business Acumen:

  • Participant 7 admires Musk's efficiency:

    "If he's able to take an organization like Twitter from 3,000 employees to 300... what about our federal government?"
    [12:59]

  • Participant 8 expresses support for Musk's companies:

    "I love Tesla a lot... I did think it's like a really good thing what Doge is doing."
    [12:23]

• Concerns Over Corruption and Conflict of Interest:

  • Participant 5 voices skepticism:

    "I'm not a huge fan of him and the ties he has to his companies. Seems as there may be some corruption."
    [11:47]

  • Participant 7 raises questions about government efficiency inspired by Musk:

    "Our federal government is just, it's like archaic."
    [12:59]

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Perceptions of Andrew Tate

Participants discuss Andrew Tate, reflecting a spectrum of opinions about his influence on masculinity and societal views.

• Mixed Reactions:

  • Participant 1 acknowledges Tate’s valid points but criticizes his approach towards women:

    "I don't like the way he talks about women... He's a little hateful sometimes."
    [21:21]

  • Participant 3 is split between appreciating his advocacy for men's strength and disliking his negative comments:

    "I do like some of what he said when he talks about politics... but... he's also done some not so great things."
    [23:52]

• Criticism of Credibility:

  • Participant 4 dismisses Tate’s credibility due to his behavior:

    "The fact that he tries to talk about morality... kills any credibility he would have ever had with me."
    [22:28]

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Cultural Messages on Masculinity

A significant portion of the discussion centers on societal expectations and portrayals of masculinity.

• Stigma and Evolving Roles:

  • Participant 4 reflects on changing perceptions post-COVID:

    "There has been a stigma around masculinity... mainstream media will not promote them in the way that they used to be."
    [24:37]

  • Participant 3 laments the lack of strong male role models in media:

    "I don't really see that from society. I mean, I do in my own life, but that's about it."
    [28:27]

• Positive Masculinity Traits:

  • Participant 6 emphasizes respectful and self-care aspects:

    "Respectful, humble, caring and understanding of our peers... take care of our general health."
    [27:14]

  • Participant 1 advocates for responsible and strong men:

    "Promoting men who are smart, responsible, strong, help others... be just a good person."
    [28:00]

• Role Models:

  • Participant 4 cites personal figures like his father and professors as positive role models:

    "I look to my dad a lot... intellectually strong people."
    [25:34]

  • Participant 2 finds inspiration in family members:

    "I look up to my uncles and my granddad. They are like the examples of what I think a man should be."
    [26:16]

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Health and "Make America Healthy Again" Movement

Health emerges as a pivotal theme, intertwined with political choices and personal lifestyles.

• Diet and Personal Health Choices:

  • Participant 5 discusses the benefits of the keto diet:

    "I'm on the keto diet... I have the energy to do more stuff."
    [30:50]

• Skepticism Towards Vaccines:

  • Participant 5 questions vaccine industry motives:

    "All the companies that are producing a lot of the vaccines are these big companies that are for profit... making money off of not preventing disease."
    [35:08]

  • Participant 8 acknowledges vaccine effectiveness but criticizes the pharmaceutical focus:

    "I like what Maha represents, but I don't like that someone who... has said that vaccines don't work is at the head of it."
    [36:55]

• "Make America Healthy Again" Initiatives:

  • Participant 7 expresses support for reducing unhealthy additives in food:

    "I think far too long, maybe food and beverage has really focused on specifically, like getting consumers hooked on a product."
    [29:20]

  • Participant 1 values RFK's focus on environmental health factors:

    "He wants to stop that [chemicals in food, air, water], that was really exciting for me because I think if we could do that, we would be much healthier."
    [33:14]

  • Participant 5 remains cautiously optimistic about the movement's impact:

    "If the changes that he makes affect people positively, then it'll be a great thing."
    [34:06]

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Impact of the COVID-19 Pandemic

The pandemic's lasting effects on personal lives, beliefs, and societal structures are thoroughly examined.

• Increased Skepticism and Government Trust:

  • Participant 4 notes a decline in trust towards the government post-COVID:

    "It made me a lot more skeptical of the government and powers that be."
    [44:23]

  • Participant 1 expresses fear over government powers:

    "Just made me realize that the government can implement significant overnight change and there's nothing we can do about it."
    [46:05]

• Remote Work and Lifestyle Changes:

  • Participant 5 appreciates the shift to remote work:

    "I work fully remote since the pandemic. I personally like it."
    [40:58]

  • Participant 2 credits the pandemic for boosting his entrepreneurial spirit:

    "It helped me kind of like shift... take this step instead of just kind of, like, depending on something else."
    [48:00]

• Social Interactions and Health Consciousness:

  • Participant 8 describes increased caution in social settings:

    "It's definitely made me a lot more health conscious... try and get away quicker than I was five years ago."
    [41:38]

  • Participant 6 reminisces about strict lockdowns:

    "It was definite more like a lockdown, like a genuine true to God lockdown that I've never experienced before in my life."
    [48:07]

• Geographical Shifts:

  • Participant 7 relocated to Florida to escape stringent COVID-19 policies:

    "I started coming to Florida more often... it's more based on your own personal health risk assessment."
    [43:35]

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Conclusion

This episode of The Focus Group Podcast offers a candid exploration of young Republican voters' motivations and beliefs. From prioritizing health and economic stability to grappling with media trust and societal expectations of masculinity, the discussions reveal a complex tapestry of influences shaping this demographic. Participants exhibit a blend of traditional conservative values and contemporary concerns, such as skepticism towards large corporations and a desire for authentic leadership. The lasting impact of the COVID-19 pandemic emerges as a significant factor in their worldview, fostering both adaptability and distrust in governmental authorities. Sarah Longwell successfully captures the nuanced perspectives of these young men, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of where the GOP might be headed and the cultural forces at play within Trumpism.

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Notable Quotes:

• Participant 3 on media bias:

  "I don't really see that from society. I mean, I do in my own life, but that's about it."
  [28:27]

• Participant 7 on remote work benefits:

  "It was the only place that was really open to go during 2020... I've been here ever since."
  [43:35]

• Participant 5 on vaccine skepticism:

  "I feel like we need to get educated, and the companies do have... conflict of interest there."
  [37:11]

---

This episode serves as a crucial lens into the minds of young male Republicans, highlighting their challenges, aspirations, and the broader socio-political landscape influencing their choices.

Transcript

[Moderator]

Foreign.

[Sarah Longwell]

And welcome to the focus group podcast. I'm Sarah Longwell, publisher of the Bulwark and this week we are going to do something just a little bit different. So I get a lot of feedback on the podcast and you know, sometimes people are like, oh man, it's so hard to listen to those focus groups. Then other people are like, I just want to listen to a whole focus group. I just want to hear it, you know, raw. Well, that's what we are going to do today. I got it for you. Also just happens I've got some travel this week and so this is a little bit of cheat code for me now. I've been very interested since the election and it's come up on lots of the podcasts we've done about the rise of the MAGA young men. We've talked about the manosphere, we've talked about how much the culture has changed. Last election, you know, sort of felt like it was becoming maybe a little bit boys versus girls election. And so I wanted to explore, explore more on these young MAGA guys from their media diets to their political views, to how they participate in the culture. And so we convened a focus group of men under 30 who voted for Trump in the last election. And my producer, who is himself a man under 30, moderated it. So you're going to get to hear a lot of him. Now we get into a lot of stuff with them that, you know, the pretty obvious stuff, what appealed to them about Trump, what they think of Elon Musk to the less obvious, which is things like, you know, why are so many taken with Robert F. Kennedy's Maha message, which is make America healthy again and how Covid impacted all of that. Because I talk about this a lot on the show, but I just, I don't always think we examine enough how much Covid continues to reverberate through our culture today. And I think a lot of people's sort of political, not even political opinions, but their political grievances got sort of forged during COVID And that the red pilling part that we talk about, not people who've become Republicans, but people who feel pretty red pilled. I do think Covid had a lot to do with that. So we're going to talk about that also. I was just interested, like, who are their role models that they see for young men today? How do they think the culture talks to them or doesn't talk to them? So this group is not completely uncut. It is going to be edited for length. And we obviously always protect people's privacy on this show, but it's gonna be more focus group content than you usually get. Less analysis. I think some people like that, some people won't. But why don't you give it a try? I gotta say, I found these guys very interesting. These politics are not my politics. But there is a lot to learn here about where I think the GOP is heading in the future. And I can't wait to talk about this more in depth going forward, because I do think this sort of young men piece is very intertwined with what is going on with sort of Trumpism broadly. Even in a world in which Trump no longer exists, I think these dynamics and these cultural forces will persist and will continue to impact our politics. So without further ado, let's listen.

[Moderator]

Like I said at the top, everyone voted for Trump in this last election. So wondering two parts to this one, how you identify politically from there. If you could walk me through that vote and kind of what you thought the most important issues were in this last election cycle.

[Participant 1]

Yes, I guess I would consider myself a Republican. And the issues that were important to me for this last election were disease. So the Make America Healthy Again movement was something that I thought was a great thing, and there was nothing from Kamala Harris about that. So that was an easy decision for that issue. Also government overspending and inefficiency, inflation and world conflicts in Russia and Israel. I just thought President Trump was going to bring solutions for all the aforementioned issues.

[Moderator]

Okay, so just walk us through how you're thinking about this last election and how you think about your politics generally.

[Participant 2]

So I'm more on an independent side, so I don't, you know, lean either way. I'm just a guy with action, and I try to, you know, relate to people that take a lot of action. I feel like Trump versus Kamala, he was able to do that, versus her. You know, a lot of things she promised I didn't really feel too confident in. And I feel like Trump could deliver on what it is that he said he would do.

[Moderator]

Okay, walk us through your political identity and your vote last year.

[Participant 3]

Yeah, so this is my first time voting. Very strong Republican, Trump all the way. You know, I just really like pretty much everything he's going for. Big things are like abortion, immigration, and economy are probably the three biggest. Like, also just I believe he can. Like, he's just going to keep doing what he said he would. And so I just liked his vision a lot more.

[Moderator]

Okay, walk us through it for you.

[Participant 4]

My two biggest things were, like, the Government spending. I know that wasteful spending has been a large problem for the government for a while. Like, I studied economics, so kind of seeing that was always problematic. And on the other side of things, I'd say foreign policy. I'm definitely an anti interventionalist, and I think historically, looking back, you can see the Democrats used to be that way, but they've recently shifted to being a lot more interventionalist, and that kind of brought me away from them. And I would certainly say now I consider myself a Republican.

[Moderator]

Okay, tell us about it.

[Participant 5]

I am a registered Democrat. However, on more policies recently, I'm starting to lean right. More fiscally conservative and somewhat socially on the left, but the world conflicts and the economy has sort of geared me towards voting with Trump this election.

[Moderator]

What are some of the social issues where you would say you kind of lean left?

[Participant 5]

I'm pro choice with boundaries with certain limitations. And on gay marriage, I'm okay with that. Do whatever you want as long as it doesn't affect me. I say go for whatever you want to do.

[Moderator]

Okay, walk us through your vote.

[Participant 6]

In the last election, it was my first vote I've ever been able to place well, legally, and I went ahead and went along with the right just because it's been very prevalent that the immigration crisis has been a genuine crisis. So I went ahead and put in my hat for Trump just to see him take action against these sorts of problems. I'm not gonna sit here and claim all immigration people are horrible or anything like that, but unfortunately, there are just so many, to put it gently, so many people that just don't deserve to be here. Coming in, racketeering, rioting, breaking into apartments, even stores, establishments, for no reason really, besides just make themselves feel comfortable, I guess. And I haven't really seen the current, the past presidency really take that into account and not apply any pressure on the mayor to get these sorts of things handled. Soon as Trump came into office, numerous shelters have been getting shut down for these immigration people, and I'm assuming the money will be diverted back into the people that actually need it, not the ones that are coming from other countries.

[Moderator]

Okay, walk us through that vote for you.

[Participant 7]

Yeah.

[Participant 5]

I've actually appreciated and aligned with everyone's answer so far. I think the top two reasons for me is, I believe on personal economics, I will benefit most long term with Trump in the presidency. And then two, I. Yeah, just everything with those that Elon Musk is doing. And, you know, there shouldn't be wasteful spending and there shouldn't be corrupt people you know, everyone's motive in the government should be the American people. And I just feel like we need to urge the government and get those people out that aren't doing that.

[Moderator]

Okay, walk us through that. Vote for you.

[Participant 8]

Yeah. So I first election that I was able to vote in since I turned 18, and I've never identified with a political party. It's just kind of whoever I feel is the better choice. And I kind of knew who was the better choice when Kamala couldn't answer a question without constantly stuttering and not. Not really giving a straight answer. And the reasons for Trump is similar to everyone else. Wasteful spending within the government. Everyone works really hard for their money, and seeing so much of it being sent to things that 99% of America would vote against really didn't sit right with me. I also like that Trump is pretty good at communicating with world leaders compared to the last organization. So specifically on Israel, I wanted that conflict resolved. Immigration. I had an internship in Manhattan, and I got to see firsthand what was happening there with illegal immigration. And I would really like for that to be cleaned up before I graduate and go into the real world in Manhattan, where I know it's dangerous, but I'd like for it to get cleaned up before I get there. And the economy, I didn't like how the last administration was constantly being like, the economy is getting better. Meanwhile, everyone knows that McDonald's now cost $20 for a meal or whatever it was back then. And Trump's also a businessman, so I would prefer people who are transparent and direct.

[Moderator]

Okay, bring us home.

[Participant 7]

Yeah, sure. So I'd say I'm a registered Republican. I tend to be more moderate. I'd say the last election I voted for Donald Trump, just. I felt kind of insulted. I myself am gay, and my partner is actually from Venezuela. He's an immigrant. And the whole basically election, we were told, oh, like, if you're gay, you have to vote for Kamala and the Democrats. There's no other way about it. And then for immigrants, it's like, oh, if you're an immigrant, if you're Latino, like, you have to vote for Kamala and for the Democrats. But it was just kind of insulting to, I think, our intelligence and us as people, because it's like, we pay taxes too. My partner did it the right way. He applied, he paid the money. He went through the right process. And then we just watch people come in, and they get to skip the line. They get free hotel rooms in New York City, free flights to anywhere they want. In the country. And I just, like, saw how upset my partner would get because it's like he spent thousands of dollars, hired attorneys, did the right process, and then other people just get to have everything paid for and skip the line. And then for the people that say, oh, well, you're gay, you can't vote for Donald Trump and all that, he actually had the first gay cabinet member, Rick Cornell, and he also had a whole thing. He provided prep for people who are LGBT for free. He had a ton of initiatives. He's from New York City. I mean, I don't know anyone in New York City who's homophobic. And he's been in the entertainment industry. So it was just insulting to, like, my intelligence. And I'm a normal person who pays taxes and lives here.

[Moderator]

So I want to touch a little bit on Doge. Many of you brought this up already. You said you're kind of concerned about it.

[Participant 5]

I'm not concerned about necessarily what they're doing. I'm just a bit concerned about maybe there may not be as much thought process into the cuts. It seems like they're just cutting everything without me taking too deep of a look. And then also, Elon Musk, I'm not, not a huge fan of him and the ties he has to his companies. And seems as there may be some corruption or, you know, I'm not going to go into too deep, but maybe.

[Participant 6]

Take a step back and take a pause.

[Moderator]

Yeah. What did you think of Musk kind of before he got into politics?

[Participant 8]

I love Tesla, like, a lot, so that was the main thing. I'm just, just a fan generally of the, the company. I Also, he founded PayPal, which was. Has been an amazing company. I just, I didn't see really any negatives to him before he started supporting Donald Trump and getting fully into politics. I'm not fully supportive of him doing Doge. I do think it's like a really good thing what Doge is doing. But I do think there might be some conflict of interest that might come out later saying, like, oh, he helped himself in some regard, but that's just what I'm expecting. That's what I'm assuming will happen.

[Moderator]

Okay, you want to touch on that?

[Participant 7]

Yeah. I mean, he is an immigrant who came here and created a automotive company, which, I mean, at this point is unheard of. I mean, we already have so many large competitors and he's already, I think The Tesla Model 3 was the best selling vehicle last year. And I just like the way he, like the way he goes about Business too. Like, for example, when he bought Twitter, they had like 5,000 employees and they're able to get it down to something like 300. And the app is still working just fine. I use it every day, no problem. And so I kind of look at, okay, if he's able to take an organization like Twitter from 3,000 employees to, or maybe four or 5,000 to 300. You know, what about our federal government? There has to be ways that we can begin streamlining things, make things faster. I mean, anyone who's ever applied for government benefits knows it takes weeks or months just to get anything approved. And we're supposedly the country with the most amount of, you know, tech innovation, AI innovation, yet our federal government is just, it's like archaic.

[Sarah Longwell]

All right, focus group listeners, I have a podcast wreck for you. In wild times like these, do you ever just wanna break the rules? You know, Elon likes to break the rules. Well, that's exactly what friend of the bulwark Glenn Galich gets into on his show Break Bake Rules. Here, Glenn and guest dig into the self imposed rules that hold us back, particularly in philanthropy, to uncover which rules we should commit to breaking together for a better society. You'll even hear from me and other political insiders in politics, government, philanthropy, media and more who are refusing to to live by fake rules. Because a lot of these rules are fake. I don't know where they came from. If you've ever wondered why we live by certain rules or dreamed of what becomes possible when we do things differently, tune in to break fake rules, but do it in a cool way, not like in an Elon way. New episodes drop monthly wherever you get your podcasts.

[Moderator]

We asked on the screener where people are turning for their news, specifically political news. So go ahead.

[Participant 7]

Yeah, sure. So I try to take in media wherever I can. So I'll watch the news like Fox News, even CNN sometimes just succeed. Their perspective. I get a lot through X as well and through social media. I think it is difficult nowadays to necessarily find things that are truthful. Like, I even talked to my partner because he asked me, like, how do you view media? Because it just seems biased. Like, for example, I saw a headline the other day and it was like, father ripped from child's arms in front of family by ice. And I'm like, oh my God, that's a triggering headline. But then when you get to the bottom of the article, the guy had committed murder years ago and it's like, wouldn't you rather have the headline be like, convicted murderer detained by ice. I'm just tired of the media. There's an implicit bias in the way they report things, especially on the news. You know, it'll be a video of the mother crying. As you know, the father is led away and there's the kids there. Are you going to report the full story of what the guy did, why he's being arrested? And it's tough to consume media, so I usually like to go to exactly the source. So I'll look at like Donald Trump's Twitter and truth. I read, you know, Candace Owens, Ben Shapiro. I watched CNN too, just to see what their site is. I try to stay as open as I can.

[Moderator]

Okay, talk about where you get your news and kind of how you think about it.

[Participant 8]

Yeah, so I watch very like select few podcasts generally. I try to get my news through primarily X actually, or Twitter because it's the only one with like real time fact checking. I could see something on TikTok and it could be completely false and I would have no idea except for like during the election they had a little banner and it was like keep updates in the election. I prefer Twitter because if something is inherently wrong, there'll be a community note most of the time. And I just prefer to get the most accurate things, especially unbiased. My for you page on Twitter, or whatever, whatever it's called, is primarily a mix of like every news outlet. So I'll see stuff from like Fox News, CNN and NBC and I kind of get every side of the spectrum. So I just try to be primarily unbiased when I'm, when I'm hearing my news.

[Moderator]

Okay, where do you get your news?

[Participant 5]

So recently, the Graham Stephan show, the Iced Coffee Hour, I, I listen to it for a lot of finance, but they brought politics into it a decent amount on their recent episodes, which is, which is nice because the politics does relate to finance. And then just recently started listening to a little more of Charlie Kirk and then on Instagram. I really like the Morning Brew. I feel like they're more business focused and very non biased. Sometimes it looks like they're left leaning and sometimes it looks like they're right leaning. So I really like them. But besides that, just whatever the talk around town is. Sometimes I'll go research that specific topic, but those are my main.

[Moderator]

Okay, where do you get your news? What else do you watch?

[Participant 6]

I'd say the New York Times are usually where I kind of get some of the news. Right. And I forgot what the application is called on your iPhone. The one that just comes with it, the news app, I use that as well. And sometimes I get it through social media, like mainly TikTok, not because I depend on it, but just because if you want like a quick update, these people just make it so easy to just digest. And then I will go ahead and make my own due diligence, of course.

[Moderator]

Okay, where do you go for news?

[Participant 4]

I'm also going to echo some of that sentiment. I use Twitter to get stuff like directly from the source a lot of time. I like the Community Notes. I also have a subscription to the Economist. They're a little bit, a little bit more left leaning a lot of time. New York Times, I read them. I've become a little bit more wary of mainstream news, especially seeing some of the stuff that Doge has put out with like the funding that went to BBC and Politico, particularly with the potential biases there against the people that could be cutting some of their funding. There's a little bit of conflict of interest there. But I know like Lex Friedman, I like for AI news, he is a developer in that space, so he always knows what's going on there. I mean I listen to Rogan a lot too, but that's more from an effort entertainment perspective rather than like getting live news. So yeah, I think that covers my main media consumption.

[Moderator]

Sure. And I should say feel free to talk about entertainment stuff as well. That's, that's a piece of this as well. So news, entertainment, any. Where do you go?

[Participant 3]

Yeah, so I don't really watch mainstream media at all anymore. It's all seems really biased, really anti. Right. So I'm a big fan of Benny Johnson, Charlie Kirk and Joe Rogan podcast. Those are probably my main three.

[Moderator]

Okay, what do you like about Charlie Kirk?

[Participant 3]

He's just a really smart dude. Right. I don't know, just his interactions with people. I watch a lot of his YouTube videos too, like where he's debating college kids. I think those are pretty interesting. And he just brings up a lot of good points and so I enjoy listening to him.

[Moderator]

Okay, where do you go? News and entertainment?

[Participant 1]

I listen to Sean Hannity on Fox, also Charlie Kirk on the radio, as well as Ben Shapiro and for entertainment, slash politics, Joe Rogan and Theo Von.

[Moderator]

Okay, bring us home.

[Participant 2]

I don't watch a lot of the news, but when I do I try to watch like maybe the Fox News for local news, real time news, more leaning towards exit. Tick tock. As far as like the clickbait, I try not to look too much into this. So if I find something that interests Me, I kind of like, Google it, get further into the research and also the morning brew. Like, I just got popped into that.

[Moderator]

Okay, one other person I want to throw out there, who y'all may have heard of, who's heard of Andrew Tate, knows enough to have an opinion. What do you think?

[Participant 1]

I think some of what he says is a point like, we live in a matrix. The people in charge are corrupt. They don't care about us. So some good points. I don't like the way he talks about women. He's a little hateful sometimes, using language that I don't care for. But I think for some other points, like the Israel war, he has made some good points that I agree with about Israel massacring people.

[Moderator]

What's he said about Israel? I'm not familiar.

[Participant 1]

Just like that they're going overboard killing Palestinian children and that the world is really not helping them. So I think he's tried to donate money to Palestine to help them get food and water, which I think is a good thing.

[Moderator]

Okay, anyone else want to weigh in on Andrew Tate, what they've seen and heard? I think you had your hand up for that.

[Participant 4]

I mean, the fact that he tries to, like, talk about, like, morality, well, like, essentially being, like, a pimp for Onlyfans girls, it kind of kills any credibility he would have ever had with me. So I'm not a fan personally.

[Moderator]

Oh, go ahead.

[Participant 8]

I would say I'm kind of in a similar boat. I heard about him a lot more, maybe, like, a year or two years ago. I haven't really heard much from him now, but he would always talk about to be similar to people, talking about women's bodies, and he would always make comments about girls. And I really didn't like how he was trying to be, like, alpha male, making, like, really negative, derogatory comments while also being, again, a pimp for Onlyfans women.

[Moderator]

Okay.

[Participant 7]

I was gonna say, I think he grew in popularity because at the time, he was kind of on the up and up. There was a lot of, like, young men who were, like, out of work, unable to find employment, maybe struggling at the time, because if you look at his videos, he's like, oh, if you don't have a job, you're a loser. You know, you need to start working X, Y, and Z. And so a lot of men started looking to maybe him as like, oh, this is someone who motivates me. And he gets all these women and stuff like that. And I think I'm not a fan of him, but I think his image was kind of created in that vacuum of having a large amount of men who are unemployed coming out of college.

[Moderator]

Okay, what do you think?

[Participant 3]

I do like some of what he said when he talks about politics, you know, talking about the Matrix. I agree with that. And I do like how, like, he stands for men, like, to be strong. Right. I feel like a lot of society is going away from that. I don't know. I feel like that's a good value to have. So he did promote that, and, like, young kids, which I thought was good, but, you know, he's also done some not so great things, too. So I'm kind of split.

[Moderator]

Okay, this is a little abstract, but what do folks think about the, like, the cultural messages these days that get sent to young men about what your role should be? Do you think those messages tend to be helpful? Go ahead.

[Participant 4]

I think this was more of a problem kind of like, maybe four to, like, two years ago. And I think it's improved as we've kind of started to move away from COVID because I think, like, that, like, 2020 era was kind of, like. Like the worst part of this. But I think that, like, people have really come down on young men, and I think that's kind of just been, like, how that pendulum has swung recently. And I. I don't think it's from a professional point of view. Like, I know me, and, like, a lot of the people around me still feel like they can very much succeed. But I certainly think that there's been a stigma around masculinity. And like I said, I think the stuff Andrew Tate was saying, like, that's a horrible embodiment of masculinity. And I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth because of the way that he behaves. But I certainly think that there still are strong male figures. I just think that a lot of the time, your mainstream media will not promote them in the way that they used to be.

[Moderator]

Who are some of those strong male figures that you see these days?

[Participant 4]

I mean, like, for me, it's more people in my personal life. Like, I look to my dad a lot, or just like, people in my. In my workplace or people, like, when I was in school, like, people around campus, like, some of my professors, even if I didn't agree with them politically, just, like, very, like, intellectually strong people. Respectful, physically strong in certain cases. But I think that's different than the way that Andrew Tate was portraying masculinity. And I don't think that there's very much that's toxic about that. Whereas I think a lot of like, that mainstream kind of speech revolves around the negative aspects that can be present from, like trying to be like overly macho.

[Moderator]

Tell us how you think about that.

[Participant 2]

I feel like it's always going to be a good example of what a man should be to someone. I think it's more of what's pushed in the media and what you go looking for. So, for example, talking about around pandemic, a lot of people were inside the house just scrolling and, you know, just had a lot of idle time. So they might have had time to look at a person more than they usually would if they were outdoor, what they usually would versus, you know, just being in one set place. And then they'll kind of like, I guess, deep dive into what they were saying. Yeah, I feel like it's always a good example, especially like when you have men in your life. So I look up to my uncles and my granddad. They are like the examples of what I think a man should be. I feel like it's just personal thing versus what they push the media. It's all in your perspective on it.

[Moderator]

Okay. How do you think our culture treats masculinity? Do you think the role models that are out there are helpful?

[Participant 6]

Lately, I don't know if I've been on the good side of social media, but I feel as if it has been relatively positive. I've seen some pretty solid creators speak on what quote unquote, man should be, women perceived as, and what we should strive to be, which is respectful, humble, caring and understanding of our peers, you know, at the bare minimum. And of course, maintain our hygiene. Not to really come off as somebody that smells bad, you know, take care of, or, you know, just our general health. As a guy, masculinity isn't just you decide to raise your voice at somebody. It's more than that. It's about taking care of yourself and strengthening yourself mentally and physically.

[Moderator]

Okay, you want to weigh in?

[Participant 1]

Yeah. I mean, it's gotten better since coronavirus. And generally we should be promoting men who are smart, responsible, strong, help others, don't take any crap and don't be PC, but also be just a good person.

[Moderator]

Right. Any thoughts?

[Participant 3]

I guess it's gotten a little better since COVID Right. But, like, besides my personal life, like, what I see on social media, tv, you know, I don't really see, like, values of like, what I would view as like a strong man. Right. Like leading, taking responsibility, being the head of the house. Right. This type of roles, I Don't really ever see that from society. I mean, I do in my own life, but that's about it.

[Moderator]

Okay. One thing that brought up at the start of the group was the Make America Healthy Again movement. Robert F. Kennedy, obviously was the kind of the leader of that. Who would consider themselves kind of supportive of what he's saying and follow a bit of what Maha has been. Been putting out there. What do you. What do you get from that?

[Participant 7]

I know, I'm just always like, he brings up a lot of good points. I mean, I travel a lot for work. You go to Europe and they have the same products we have, but totally different formulations. And it's almost to the point, it's like, if you're going to sell the exact same product in Europe and here have totally different formulations, why is that? And I think, you know, an easy fix for him going into his role is to just tell these companies the same formulation you're selling in Europe, you have to provide here as well. I think far too long, maybe food and beverage has really focused on specifically, like getting consumers hooked on a product. The taste, you know, if you add more sugar in it, it creates that dopamine spike so people continue buying it. And it's like straight from a consumerism perspective of how to keep people buying your product. Like, even Subway, they put sugar in their bread. So that way it entices people through smell and they continue to buy, like just things you wouldn't even think about. So I think him going in there, hopefully he'll like, you know, actually work to cut a lot of the things that have been added to our food and drink. Hopefully not like what Michelle Obama did. Those meals sucked at school, but we'll see.

[Moderator]

Would anyone say they've kind of gotten more health conscious over the last few years? Show of hands, Pretty much everyone. What. How's that manifested for you?

[Participant 2]

So I'm not perfect at all. By no means. I still like sugar. I still, you know, eat some desserts or whatnot. But I try to think in the long term, as far as, like, as I get older, I'm still pretty young, but I know that I'm going to get older. So I try to be conscious of a lot of things that I put inside of my body. And also I play sports as well. I play basketball. So I try to, you know, be as peak as I possibly can as I get older and still want that longevity of playing basketball. And also I just want to be around for my family, like, I don't have any kids. Yet, But I do plan on having some. So when I have them, I want to be able to, you know, be active with them and not just, like, kind of sit on the sidelines and watch them.

[Moderator]

So, okay, what have you thought, what you've seen from the Maha sphere?

[Participant 5]

I think, right, It's. Robert Kennedy is, like, the main pusher of that. I think he was a good influence to help Trump win, and I think that was very good. And I think, obviously, making America healthy is very good. I personally can attest to. How do I say this? I'm on the keto diet, and I don't know, some people don't like it, some people do. Some people think it's good for science and whatnot. But I've lost £30 in a month and a half, so that's been great. And I feel like when I get back from work, I have the energy to do more stuff, you know, where before the diet, I would get back from work and just, like, not want to do anything else. And my eating habits were bad and whatnot. So I feel like what we eat is very important. And I. I do agree with what y'all were saying about, like, companies want us to return and eat all their food, and they're gonna make their food to do that. So, I mean, it's capitalism, and there's gonna be good things and bad things about that, but the more we eat, the more unhealthy we get, especially that our sugars and carbs. So America needs to get educated, and the companies do the have. I don't know if regulation or that is something that I actually hope to learn more about, like, exactly what Maha is gonna do. I know their mission statement is really cool, but what they're actually going to do, I want to learn more of.

[Moderator]

You said this was a major piece of your vote for Trump. Want to walk us through that?

[Participant 1]

Sure. Disease is a big problem. Everyone gets it. There's so much cancer, heart disease, et cetera. And it seems like there's really been little progress made in getting to the root causes of those diseases. So obviously, without health, we can't do anything. So to see that be put at the forefront and how RFK is talking about how the chemicals have really infiltrated our food, air, and water, and that's the main reason for why we have disease. And he wants to stop that, that was really exciting for me because I think if we could do that, we would be much healthier and also live longer as well, which appeals to me.

[Moderator]

Yeah. What do you think of Maha, in.

[Participant 5]

General, I like the idea and I like the concept. However, I'm not a huge fan of some claims that RFK has been making without any necessarily scientific backing or evidence. So I guess my opinion is we'll have to wait and see. If the changes that he makes affect people positively, then it'll be a great thing. But this won't, I guess, be known till long in the future whether or not it makes a positive change.

[Moderator]

Okay, you mentioned some of RFK's views on vaccines. I'm wondering how people think about, you know, their relationship to vaccines, the number of them that we get, and whether you think that there are too many or about the right amount. Anyone have any strong thoughts either way on vaccines today? Go ahead. And then.

[Participant 5]

Just a concerning thing is that all the companies that are producing a lot of the vaccines are these big companies that are for profit, have stockholders. And with any company that's public, you know, I. You feel like their main goal is their shareholders and not their customers. And I feel like that's been a. Something I did learn about Maha was, you know, back in the 90s or 2000s, you know, kids would have eight shots, and now they're getting 60 or something shots as a requirement. And they, they're doing that without research showing, like, hey, these are people that have those eight shots, like the tetanus, the polio, whatever. And these are the people with 60 shots. Like, what is the difference? What if these 60 shots are having higher ADHD or higher autism or higher those stuff? And it's just like, we need more clear stuff. And it's scary that the big pharmacist companies that are publicly traded are in charge of our health. So when they get paid more when we're unhealthy.

[Moderator]

So, okay, what did you want to say?

[Participant 8]

Yeah, so I definitely agree that large vaccine companies, their interests are definitely their shareholders. And also I do believe the vaccines work. But it's also interesting that Pfizer, one of the very large vaccine companies, I saw a figure a long time ago. It was the amount of money that they've brought in and then used for vaccines and then put it back out. And it was an unfathomable number. And they've yet to cure a single disease in the entire time that they've ever been a company. I like what Maha represents, but I don't like that someone who in the past has said that vaccines don't work is at the head of it.

[Moderator]

Okay, quick show of hands. Who generally agrees with what they've heard from RFK on vaccines that maybe the benefits have been overhyped and the harms have been downplayed. Why would you say you're on the fence?

[Participant 4]

I mean, because I think that there's something to be said about the way that big pharmacy companies that produce these vaccines are for profit and make money off of not preventing disease, rather treating it right. So I think that there is potentially conflict of interest there. More of my concern there comes from some of the stuff that's come out, like, very recently about the COVID vaccine, because you were told right when it came out, that by every mainstream news outlet that it's completely safe, there's going to be no issues. It's going to completely get rid of COVID xyz. And now there's recently been research coming out that the symptoms of what was called, like, long Covid are potentially actually caused by the vaccine. So it's stories like that that make you really question, like, the legitimacy of the companies that are putting out these vaccines. And like I said, I think historically vaccines have been a great thing. They've given a lot of help to society. But just because they've done that historically doesn't mean that we can't be skeptical going forward of new treatments developed by these companies.

[Moderator]

Okay, that's a perfect segue into where I want to go next. So we're coming up on five years since the start of the COVID pandemic. But since we asked about the vaccines, just ask everyone about the COVID vaccine, the people that got the vaccine who regrets getting it. Why would you say you regret it?

[Participant 5]

I don't know. I feel like I just got it because it was free. And I was just like, all right, everyone's doing this. And one of the church leaders of the religion I'm in got it. And I was just like, okay, I'll get it. And I got sent home from my mission because I was actually in South America, and I was like, oh, they might require this to go back, so I'll get it. But I just felt like I got it blindly, so that's why I regret it. And especially hearing about some of the research and things against it now, I feel like I do regret it.

[Moderator]

Okay, you didn't get the vaccine. Tell us about that.

[Participant 3]

Yeah, I mean, you know, it all just seemed pretty rushed in making it. I'm already, like, right before that, I had some pretty bad illness that was caused by a vaccine. So not the greatest looks for him, but it seemed pretty rushed. Right. They didn't do much testing on it, especially with people. And I just didn't really see a point to it, like the risk compared to what Covid really was for most people, which wasn't that bad. I mean, there are people that affected pretty badly. But like I was fine when I had it and so I didn't feel like it was worth putting something, I didn't know what it was in my body.

[Moderator]

Okay, you didn't get the vaccine.

[Participant 8]

Tell us about that.

[Participant 1]

I'm a young, healthy guy, so I didn't feel like I needed it to be protected. Also concerned about long term, potentially permanent side effects. Just skeptical in general because I know a lot of times the truth is suppressed for some things. So when it comes to something so important like my health, I didn't want to take any chances. So, yeah.

[Moderator]

Show of hands. Even if you got the shot and you don't regret it, who agrees that there might be harmful side effects that have been suppressed? Okay, majority of you. So I want to zoom out and I want to talk about the pandemic and how it impacted all of your lives and how that might still reverberate today. So I'm going to go around to everybody and I'll start with how did going through the pandemic kind of impact how you think about the world, how you interact with other people, any top of mind things about how it changed.

[Participant 5]

Things for you on a large scale? It didn't affect me too much in the moment. It did, but as of right now, I don't really have any major effects. One positive effect is, for me at least, is the increase in remote work. I work fully remote since the pandemic. I personally like it. So that's been a big, big positive for me. Gives me more time, more freedom throughout my day.

[Participant 6]

So that's, I guess the biggest change.

[Participant 5]

For me since the pandemic.

[Moderator]

What comes to mind for you of how Covid affected your life?

[Participant 8]

So it's definitely made me a lot more skeptical of. I know that I got the shot, I don't regret it, but it's definitely made me a lot more skeptical. Any new vaccines and new shots that I get in my body. Getting three shots for one one illness that I got and had the exact same symptoms as someone who didn't get the vaccine made me realize that maybe there's not that much of a benefit to it. I am graduating this year and I have a position where I'm four days remote and one day in person. So that definitely makes my life much easier. So I appreciate that. And it's also made me a lot more health conscious. Kind of when I go anywhere, if someone's coughing. Maybe before the pandemic, I didn't really make an effort to kind of like, move out of the way. I was like, I'll be fine. But now if someone. Someone's sick, I definitely try and get away quicker than I was five years ago.

[Moderator]

Okay, any ways that Covid's still impacting your life?

[Participant 7]

Yeah. So at the time, I was living in New Jersey, and I was going to New York for work, and I was living there pretty much the full year. And I know it just got to the point it was way too authoritarian. Like, I couldn't go do a single thing. I had to wait to be told, you know, what I was and wasn't allowed to do for many months. Like, I couldn't even go to a restaurant or do anything. So I started coming to Florida more often, and when I would come down here, everything just made more sense. It was still health conscious, but it wasn't overbearing. They still let people kind of make their own decisions off their own health risk factor. And my job was remote at the time, so I decided to move, and I've been here ever since. The reason I live in Florida now is just because of COVID So you'd.

[Moderator]

Say the COVID policies and that kind of thing were a factor in why you chose Florida over other places.

[Participant 7]

It was the only place that was really open to go during 2020. So I just started coming more often. I realized, wow, everything here seems like, make more sense. It's more based on, you know, your own personal health risk assessment, you know, and it's not like, oh, I have to wait to get permission to go to a restaurant to sit outside six feet away from everyone with a mask on, which in New Jersey, that's what it was at the time. Like, it's not even worth going to a restaurant if I have to wear a mask in between each bite. Like, it's stupid. And I would come to Florida and everything just made sense. You know, if you were high risk, you could stay at home. If you weren't, you could go out. And I just appreciated how they value independence here. And I've just stayed here ever since.

[Moderator]

Okay, how's Covid affected you?

[Participant 4]

I'd say long term, like, socially, I've noticed a lot more of the impacts with the. Like, I have two younger sisters, and I've noticed it more with people their age because they were like, kind of more in their. Earlier in their, like, social development. Than I was. So I've definitely noticed an effect on them. But I'd say for me personally, the largest impact it's had has made me a lot more skeptical of, like, the government and powers that be, particularly because as time goes on, you see a lot of the stuff that was being pushed kind of being refuted. So I'd say. I'd say that's the biggest effect that it had on me. But overall, from, like, a developmental perspective, I'd say it's more probably on the younger kids than me.

[Moderator]

Okay, who agrees with. You've seen, like, a real change in, you know, younger folks and even younger kids than you since all that remote learning. Okay, how's that reverberated over the last few years for you? Has Covid done that?

[Participant 3]

I mean, I agree with completely. Right. Like, it started with Trump's presidency, but especially that point. It changed the way I look at our government and the media and, you know, just, like, made me really skeptical of everything, like, what they were pushing, like, starting with Trump calling it the China virus and all of them saying, it's not from China, that that's just racist. And then a couple years later, he came out. It was right. And stuff with the vaccine, how they're like, you're not going to get Covid. And then they kept, like, changing it, like, it won't be as bad or. And they kept, like, changing the requirements of what the vaccine would be. So just, like, changed how I viewed media and the government in general.

[Moderator]

Okay. Has Covid reverberated over the last few years for you?

[Participant 1]

Just made me realize that the government can implement significant overnight change and there's nothing we can do about it. Just like, you have to stay home. Masks, economy closed. So it was like, if you would have told me that in September of 2019 that we would have what happened in March 2020, I would be like, oh, no way. But it just demonstrates that they can do anything instantly. Little scary.

[Moderator]

Okay. Have you thought about it?

[Participant 2]

I feel like it helped me adapt to a lot of things, especially change. At that time, I was an essential worker. So my perspective on, like, staying at home and just having to go to work right back home, it was kind of like it forced me to get creative in a lot of things. I feel like if that didn't happen, I probably wouldn't be doing what I do now as far as, like, having the confidence to even do so. Just having to adapt with a lot of things. Seeing how people, you know, converse with each other nowadays versus how it was before then, I definitely see the change.

[Moderator]

Okay. Have you thought about it?

[Participant 5]

Yeah, I think it was definitely a challenge, and we all grow from challenges. Definitely made me more aware and more opinionated on politics. Prior, I feel like I didn't align with even caring much about politics, but I feel like it helped me kind of be aware of what's going on in the world, and big changes actually do affect me. And. And obviously the big change was, you know, I was in another country and had to come home from that country and had to wait another year to go back out to that country, so. But I think it was character building.

[Moderator]

And, yeah, you end up finishing your mission.

[Participant 5]

I did.

[Moderator]

Okay. And have you thought about COVID over the last few years and how it's affected you?

[Participant 6]

I'd say in the city, it's definitely been a lot more intense when it comes to whether or not you're allowed outside. I believe there was a point and, like, a few months in where if you were caught outside with improper verification as to what you were out there for, let's say you're an essential worker, Then I think you'd get, like, a ticket or something like that. It only lasted, like, a week, though. I don't remember how long it lasted, but it was definitely not a scary time, but definitely felt more like a lockdown, Like a genuine true to God lockdown that I've never experienced before in my life.

[Moderator]

Yeah, I want to go back to for a second. You said your experiences from COVID kind of gave you more confidence, I think, because you. You went and started your business after that. I want to speak to that a little bit. How it. Any positive effects, I guess?

[Participant 2]

Oh, yeah, definitely. So it's crazy because I started the idea of actually detailing December 2019, and I was like, I could make this a business. I saw, like, the positive feedback I was getting. And then I was still working my job at the time. Then the lockdown just started. It was like, oh, okay, well, I don't know what I'm gonna do, like, in that moment, but I still was working. But then it came out to be I was an essential worker, so I kept steady with it. Then something a year or two happened to where I could no longer work that job. So I feel like me working and also working on my business simultaneously and also having Covid in the back of my mind, it helped me kind of like shift in a. In a sense, it was kind of like, okay, well, this could happen again. What if you're not an essential worker next time? It happens so that's why I say it gave me kind of the confidence to, you know, take this step instead of just kind of, like, depending on something else.

[Moderator]

All right. Well, we are at time. You guys have been a great group. I really appreciate everyone's candor. This is not always the easiest stuff to talk about, so you have my thanks. And the focus group facility will be in touch with a more concrete form of appreciation as well. So take that as well and appreciate everyone's time and be well.

[Participant 1]

Thank you.

[Participant 5]

Bye. Thank you.

[Moderator]

All right.

[Sarah Longwell]

I hope you guys enjoyed that. We will be back next week. In the meantime, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, subscribe to the Bulwark on YouTube, and become a Bulwark plus member at the Bulwark.com we will see you guys next week.

[Participant 5]

Thanks for listening.