The Focus Group Podcast — S6 Ep16: MAGA’s ‘Crunchy’ Surprise

Host: Sarah Longwell (The Bulwark)
Guest: Jonathan Cohn (Author, The Breakdown, The Bulwark)
Release Date: December 20, 2025

Overview

This episode dives into the surprising cultural and political realignment around public health in the Trump/Kennedy (MAGA) era, focusing on the emergence of the “MAHA” movement — Make America Healthy Again. Host Sarah Longwell and guest Jonathan Cohn (joining from Japan) explore how ideas once associated with the political left (like holistic wellness and skepticism about “Big Food” and “Big Pharma”) have migrated into the right-wing fold, how public health expertise and infrastructure have been gutted, and how Americans’ growing distrust of medical authorities is shaping attitudes and policy. The episode features insights from focus group participants, many of whom are recent converts to “crunchy” wellness politics, as well as in-depth policy analysis.

Main Themes and Purpose

• MAHA Realignment: Examines how “crunchy” health politics (organic food, skepticism of additives, wellness, vaccine hesitation) have found a home in the MAGA coalition.
• Public Health Under the Trump/Kennedy Administration: Discusses the erosion of public health agencies, loss of scientific leadership, and regulatory consequences.
• Focus Group Insights: Unfiltered voter perspectives reveal personal motivations behind adopting anti-establishment health attitudes.
• Distrust and the Fallout from COVID: How pandemic politics turbocharged distrust in public health, with lasting repercussions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Surprising Politics of MAHA

• The “Make America Healthy Again” (MAHA) platform borrows its name from the iconic MAGA slogan but focuses on health: skepticism of processed foods, food additives, pharmaceutical companies, and even some long-standing vaccine policies.
• Jonathan Cohn: “He acts like he discovered this idea that, you know, well, we need to make ourselves healthy. [...] He has this, if you listen to him [...] 'we spend so much money taking care of people when they are sick, we don’t do enough to keep people healthy.' And it’s like, yes, amen, that’s wonderful.” (07:29)

Public Health Gutted: What’s Being Lost?

• The Trump administration, with RFK, Jr. leading Health and Human Services (HHS), has systematically dismantled public health agencies and slashed funding for vaccine research.
• Cohn points out the loss of leadership and expertise, referencing a “20 years infectious disease specialist at NIH” who quietly exited:
  “We're losing so much expertise, and it’s not the kind of thing you can put your finger on. Except when the next crisis comes, who’s there to deal with it? Well, we’ve lost all the best people.” (05:39)

The Two Sides of the MAHA Agenda

• Despite rhetoric about preventative health, much MAHA/Trump/Kennedy policy is destructive:

  • Cutting mRNA vaccine research funding
  • Downsizing the CDC, NIH
  • Reducing food stamps, rolling back EPA

• Sarah Longwell: “When you take away the fundings from the universities...no one will know what didn’t happen, but we aren’t investing in it the way that we need.” (05:50)

• However, some policies echo left-populist themes, like opposition to direct-to-consumer drug ads.

  • Cohn: “One of the causes he has taken up is to try to get rid of direct-to-consumer advertising...I think is great. [...] Actually, turning that into policy is hard...But hey, if they can, more power to them.” (09:34)

Focus Group Voices: Why MAHA Resonates

• Many participants came to these views through personal or family health challenges, frustration with mainstream medicine, and pandemic experiences.
• Quotes from focus group members:
  • “I want the waters cleaned up in everything that Robert Kennedy did...I want that to happen.” (11:16)
  • “For me, I'm 100% in love with challenging our food manufacturers and holding them accountable to safe eating...Also, just saw a video of him doing 70 chin ups in the airport, which was complete badass in your 70s.” (15:40)

Shift in Party Identity on Wellness

• Historically, “crunchy”/wellness/organic/anti-additive sentiment was associated with coastal liberals.

  • “It does feel like now there’s a side of that on the Republican side. [...] It's a weird group, but it definitely does seem like there is this subgroup of people who are now very...” (13:02)

• Longwell: “To me, this is in some ways part of the crank realignment...for the people who think the government is intentionally poisoning us with things...those people...are rushing to be in the Republican Party now.” (14:11)

Rhetoric vs. Reality: Voluntary Cosmetic Changes vs. Substantive Policy

• Much of the administration’s “action” comes in the form of voluntary agreements around food dyes and junk food — yet, these are unenforceable and largely symbolic.
  • “So much of this administration is...we get voluntary agreements on things and it turns out...it's often not clear what the company actually agreed to. Number two, it’s not binding.” (17:56)
• Meanwhile, policies like food stamp cuts, Medicaid cuts, and environmental deregulation proceed:
  • “Kids starving is really bad for their health. And yet that's what this administration is doing.” (19:21)

The Vaccine Question: Nuance and Distrust

• Focus group sentiment: Not all MAHA supporters are rigid “anti-vax;” many express a general desire for more personal choice or worry about the expanded vaccine schedule (esp. for new vaccines, young children, and COVID).

  • “It was always like, this is what you need. And I do feel they are efficient...but the schedule...has jumped from 10 to, you know, around like 130, let’s say. You have to wonder how much of that is necessary.” (23:02)
  • “I just became more aware of it and started looking into more homeopathic alternatives. [...] He's just making it more aware and more mainstream.” (24:22)

• Erosion of trust is palpable:

  • “We live in a low trust society now. I hear versions of this across a ton of different issues. The kind of, ‘I don’t know what to believe. I don’t think things have been studied enough.’” (25:44)

Vaccine Injury Compensation: Setting the Record Straight

• Cohn: A detailed explanation of the U.S. vaccine injury system, clarifying that while lawsuits against vaccine manufacturers are limited, it's a system designed to keep vaccine supplies available and compensate rare, valid injuries.
  • “You can sue. It’s very hard to win. [...] That program is the foundation for our vaccines. You take that program away...we’d be back in a situation where we don’t have the MMR vaccine supply enough.” (32:15)

The Origin of Crunchy Skepticism

• Many participants’ MAHA views are rooted in personal disillusionment with the healthcare system, lack of feeling “heard” by professionals, and a sense of forced mandates during COVID.

  • “My daughter was born with some health conditions...her doctor said, ‘No, food doesn’t have anything to do with it.’ When he said that, I was like, done, checked out. Sure enough, once I got her off dairy, the condition went away.” (38:07)
  • “I get that, I really do. But then there’s the part where they kind of try to rewrite COVID history...But the through line for a lot of the current skepticism around vaccines...it comes from COVID.” (39:37)

• Cohn: “What Kennedy has done is he has rewritten that history...It wasn’t so bad. We don’t really know how many people died. The vaccine probably killed more people than it saved...just throwing out all of this sort of nonsense.” (41:29)

The Public Health Trust Crisis — What Now?

• Both host and guest lament the “decimation of faith in public health” post-COVID.

• Longwell: “There has been a decimation of faith in public health, just in general, and that came from COVID. [...] The overall impact that’s gonna reverberate for a long time is that people are not gonna get vaccines as a result of the way that Covid happened.” (44:50)

• Cohn: Shares worries about inability to prepare for future pandemics, whether through research or public compliance.
  “Are people going to listen? No. Are we going to be able to get a vaccine to people? No.” (46:41)

Rebuilding Trust — Is It Possible?

• Both note the absence of a bipartisan, transparent public reckoning or commission (like the 9/11 Commission) to process what went wrong and right in COVID, and how that’s a lost opportunity for trust-building.
  • “There was a time when public health was mostly...a little more removed from politics...but for the most part, like basic research into medicine, into cancer, basic disease prevention, vaccines. There was bipartisan consensus around that...but that is not the time we live in.” (49:41)

Silver Lining

• Cohn: Notes that some states (California, universities) are creating independent public health authorities to counteract federal sabotage, and that “muscle memory” is keeping many pediatricians and insurance companies on a steady course for now.
  • “We have seen this sort of rising up of people creating sort of independent authorities. [...] My hope is that this passes. Covid is going to be like something we’re going to be studying for like 200 years.” (52:01)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Vaccine Policy Gutting:
  “Scientists were basically like, hey, if we could have these ready to go in the future...we could have a vaccine much more quickly. [...] And he just killed the funding for it because he thinks mRNA vaccines are dangerous, which they are not.” (03:09)

• On Cranky Realignment in US Politics:
  “This is in some ways part of the crank realignment...the people who think the government is intentionally poisoning us with things...those people, like are rushing to be in the Republican Party now.” (14:11)

• On Fake Policy & Headlines:
  “We're going to produce headlines that make people feel like something is happening, but not really do anything about it.” (21:01)

• On What Keeps Them Up at Night:
  “I worry about what we were talking about earlier, this sort of, you know, undermining efforts to continue to develop vaccines, you know...pulling of the mRNA funding is the clearest example of that. [...] At some point down the road...we’ll need an mRNA vaccine and we won’t be able to have it as quickly.” (45:50)

Key Timestamps

• 02:34 – Jonathan Cohn joins, discusses Japanese public health context
• 03:09–07:29 – The extent of Trump/Kennedy public health policy changes, gutting of expertise
• 07:29–10:29 – Positives: Wellness messaging, drug advertising, bipartisan appeal
• 11:12–14:11 – Focus group: Why “crunchy” politics appeal; the new partisan mix
• 15:40–16:43 – Focus group: Food manufacturer skepticism, fitness in schools
• 17:56–21:01 – Voluntary versus substantive regulatory moves; food stamps, EPA, Medicaid
• 23:02–27:58 – Vaccine skepticism: what the new “mainstream” looks like in MAHA households
• 32:15–35:12 – Vaccine injury lawsuits and the federal compensation system explained
• 37:30–41:29 – Why participants became activists and skeptics; COVID as pivotal
• 44:50–47:15 – What keeps Cohn/Longwell up at night about trust and public health
• 49:41–51:53 – Lack of public reckoning and prospects for reform
• 52:01–54:54 – Independent public health efforts; faint hope for a saner future

Conclusion

This episode captures America’s shifting public health culture: from the lefty “wellness” past to present-day right-populist “MAHA,” showing how culture wars, COVID, and disillusionment with institutions have intertwined. Policy analysis and focus-group voices expose the contradictions of the MAGA-era health agenda: high-profile rhetoric, but eroded infrastructure and research. The future is uncertain — perhaps some independent efforts will keep vaccine science afloat, but the trust crisis is profound and ongoing.

Memorable Moment:
“Covid is going to be like something we’re going to be studying for like 200 years.” – Jonathan Cohn (52:24)