S6 Ep23: Young Trump Voters Have Feelings (with Rachel Janfaza)

Summary

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The Focus Group Podcast

S6 Ep23: Young Trump Voters Have Feelings
Host: Sarah Longwell
Guest: Rachel Janfaza
Date: February 7, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the views and lived experiences of Gen Z voters who supported Donald Trump, with a special look at young women in this group—a demographic that defies the conventional narrative of Gen Z trending left. Host Sarah Longwell and guest Rachel Janfaza—both seasoned focus group facilitators—discuss themes of economic anxiety, foreign policy, authenticity in political figures, gender gaps, and their impact on dating and social identity among young voters. The conversation is laced with audio clips from recent focus groups, offering authentic, unfiltered perspectives from young Trump voters.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Gen Z Political Priorities: Economy, Affordability, and AI

• Interconnected Economic Concerns: Affordability isn't just about jobs. Gen Z frames almost every political issue—housing, healthcare, AI, education, and climate—through the lens of whether they can afford to live and plan for the future.

  • Rachel Janfaza (03:59): “The economy, affordability, cost of living is the number one issue for young people as well... All of these issues are interconnected.”
  • Sarah Longwell (05:30): “It’s about housing, it is about the cost of health care, it is about your electricity bill, it is about the cost of college and whether or not you can afford it...”

• AI and Job Anxiety: Contrary to expectations, Gen Z isn't uniformly bullish about AI. Many worry about their education and career prospects being rendered obsolete by rapid technological change.

  • Rachel Janfaza (03:59): “Gen Z is not AI fluent... they don't feel very confident in their ability to navigate it, but also they're very scared about what it's doing...”

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Foreign Policy & "America First" Skepticism

[07:04–14:46]

• Discomfort with Foreign Entanglement: Many young Trump voters (especially women) express skepticism about U.S. involvement in global conflicts, perceiving interventions as distractions from urgent domestic needs.

  • Focus group participant (08:12): “It just seems like we're just getting into this war with Iran on behalf of Israel. That doesn't benefit us, and I don’t think that’s a good thing for us to do.”

• Split Within the Right: Rachel describes an emerging schism between "America First" isolationists (influenced by figures like Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene) and the GOP’s more traditionally interventionist "MAGA establishment."

  • Rachel Janfaza (12:57): “There's more of the young men who are listening to people like Tucker Carlson or Nick Fuentes versus more of that... more hard line traditional foreign policy posture...”
  • Sarah Longwell (11:14): “America first for people isn't a slogan. It's a statement of prioritization.”

• Draft Anxiety: Fear of being personally impacted (through the draft) makes the peace/war question deeply salient for Gen Z, motivating their aversion to foreign conflicts.

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Authenticity and Political Figures: The Case of J.D. Vance

[14:46–23:02]

• Younger Voters Skeptical of Vance: Both Gen Z men and women show a notable lack of enthusiasm for J.D. Vance, Trump’s Vice President, finding him inauthentic or simply “weird.”

  • Focus group participant (15:45): “I just haven't seen him do really anything... I'm not really a huge fan of him.”
  • Focus group participant (16:03): “He just seems kind of weird to me and I don't really trust him.”

• 'Flip Flopping' as a Red Flag: Young voters, while themselves ideologically fluid, view Vance’s shifts in allegiance (from anti-Trump to Trump loyalist) as inauthentic, not merely pragmatic.

  • Focus group participant (17:24): “I don't like people that sort of flip flop their views on things.”

• Media Exposure Backfires: Increased visibility on national stages and “manosphere” podcasts seems to reduce rather than increase affinity, particularly due to outdated cultural attitudes and awkward personal style.

  • Sarah Longwell (19:48): “He doesn't have enough exposure to be sort of everywhere, but he has enough exposure that everyone's getting like a flavor of him. And they're all like, I don't know, this guy's lame and weird and bizarre.”

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Gender Gaps & Group Norms

[31:08–44:49]

• Peer Pressure and Groupthink: Women discuss intense social pressure within liberal college communities to conform; conservative women may face pressure in relationships and families to hold certain values.

  • Focus group participant (31:47): “It’s almost like you have to follow these ideologies to do well and to be accepted socially.”
  • Rachel Janfaza (35:30): “I think it’s less of a peer pressure and more of a group think... It's actually, I think, more times about the policies and about the issues.”

• Men’s Social Pressures: Conversely, young men may feel it’s “uncool” to admit liberal leanings amid peer groups, further polarizing the gender gap.

  • Rachel Janfaza (37:24): “...in 2024, there was a social pressure amongst young men to not be a Democrat... it goes both ways.”

• Everyday Sexism & Political Identity: Both men and women describe a normalized, sometimes hostile, gender dynamic reflected in dating and politics.

  • Focus group participant (33:57): “I do feel like Gen Z. Men can be, like, kind of sexist and...degraded or insulting to women...”

• Relational vs. Political Divide: The gender gap on political views is rooted as much in the way young people relate to each other, and the lived experience of gender, as in ideology or policy.

  • Rachel Janfaza (43:44): “...the gender gap is seen as this political thing, but it’s not political. It’s tied to every part of our lives, and it’s more relational than it is political.”

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Dating Across the Divide

[46:51–53:56]

• Polarization in Relationships: Conservative women describe reluctance to date liberals, often due to family or faith expectations. Liberal women similarly report avoiding conservative men, seeing values as incompatible.

  • Focus group participant (47:16): “I just don't think it's possible to date someone like that doesn't share the same values with you... I just don't think it would ever work.”

• Supply-Demand Imbalance: Conservative women have plenty of dating options within their politics, while conservative men may need to consider dating across the aisle due to the numerical predominance of liberal women.

  • Rachel Janfaza (49:19): “...these women don't have to be open to dating across the political divide because there's plenty of conservative dudes out there...conservative men might have to date a liberal woman...”

• Are Values Really So Fixed?: Despite rhetoric of deep values misalignment, both Sarah and Rachel argue that political affiliations and actual values are still quite fluid for Gen Z.

  • Rachel Janfaza (52:26): “I don't think that the mismatch of values is actually as clear as it might seem. And I don't think that it's black and white...the political leaning is way more fluid than we make it out to be.”

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Gen Z Men, Trump, and the Democratic Party

[56:11–62:05]

• How Gen Z Men See Themselves: Many young men frame their politics around traditional values—faith, family, economic freedom—not pure Trump loyalty. There’s a sense of abandonment by the Democratic Party, which these men see as focused on “gender politics” and less on issues they care about.

  • Focus group participant (57:30): “I think young men have felt, myself included, felt kind of pushed to the wayside and, like, not important to the Democratic Party...”
  • Rachel Janfaza (59:42): “If Democrats can get their messaging right on those three things...there's no saying that these young men are still voting for Republicans.”

• Democratic Opportunity: Issues like faith, family, and capitalism have at different times belonged to both parties, and could again.

  • Rachel Janfaza (59:42): “...the role of family is really important and has been ceded to the right. I think the role of religion is really important and has been ceded to the right...”

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Economic Anxiety:
  • “Young people...see many of the other political issues through the lens of affordability.”
    – Rachel Janfaza (04:00)
• Foreign Policy Skepticism:
  • “Why are we focusing on these crises abroad when we clearly have our own issues here at home?”
    – Rachel Janfaza (09:54)
• Authenticity & Vance:
  • “I don't think he's very authentic and I think young people read right through that.”
    – Rachel Janfaza (18:46)
• Gender Gap & Social Influence:
  • “Does the same thing not go for the young men where maybe it's just that young men are more on the right because that's like the cool thing for young men right now?”
    – Rachel Janfaza (37:24)
• Dating & Identity:
  • “...these women don't have to be open to dating across the political divide because there's plenty of conservative dudes out there...”
    – Rachel Janfaza (49:19)
• Values Fluidity:
  • “...the mismatch of values is actually as clear as it might seem. And I don't think that it's black and white...the political leaning is way more fluid than we make it out to be.”
    – Rachel Janfaza (52:26)

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Memorable Moments

• Gen Z’s approach to politics as vibe-based rather than ideologically rigid; a “fluid” and reactionary voting bloc.
  • Rachel Janfaza (27:19): “Gen Z flip flops all the time...Are Gen Z's politics just going to be reactionary because of that?”
• Surprise at Marco Rubio as a “steady” figure for Gen Z, who lack reference for pre-Trump GOP politics.
  • Sarah Longwell (25:28): “They don't remember the Republican Party that I do...There is an appetite...for Marco Rubio. I am starting to see this all over the groups and it is...too bizarre, but it is a real thing.”
• Personal and cultural dissonance about gender and dating; authenticity rules Gen Z’s perceptions of politicians and partners alike.

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The Takeaway

The future of the right—and Gen Z’s political alignment—is far from settled. Despite a surge of young men into the Trump coalition, the group remains wary of inauthenticity and uninterested in ideological purity. They value economic security and stability above all, are reluctant to support political figures who don’t feel “real,” and experience politics as an intensely relational and social process. As Sarah and Rachel demonstrate through focus group insights, the next generation’s defining feature may be its openness to change and its insistence on lived, authentic experience.

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Transcript

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[Rachel Jen Faza]

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[Sarah Longwell]

Hello everyone and welcome to the Focus Group podcast. I'm Sarah Longwell, publisher of the Bulwark, and this week we're checking back in with Gen Z, specifically the right hand side of Gen Z. And when I asked my producer what he meant by right hand side, he was like, you know what I mean? I was like, I guess. But right hand side sounds weird, but sure. We're talking to Trump voting Gen Zers A couple weeks ago, you may remember, Will Summer and I talked about a group of male Gen Z Trump voters. We talked a lot about their politics, but today we're going to get into everyone's personal business and more on the future of the right, which is something I'm quite interested in. We also recently talked to a group of Gen Z women who voted for Trump in 2024. The conventional wisdom and the data hold that young men are getting more conservative and young women are getting more progressive. So the Trump voting women are kind of an interesting woman bites dog story, which is Also my producer's joke that I laughed at really hard when I read it the first time. My guest today is a repeat guest and also very exciting, a new Bulwark contributor. She is going to be here doing focus group stuff with me on Gen Z. Rachel, Jan Faza. What is up? Welcome to the team.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Thank you, Sarah. I'm so excited.

[Sarah Longwell]

You know, it's going to be nice to have another focus groupie around here, somebody else who talks to people. And, you know, because I am old now, I need somebody to walk me through Gen Z because you guys make no sense to me. I get off my lawn.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Well, I'm happy to be here. I'm excited to talk to more voters with you, especially young ones, and make sense of all of it.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, if you guys missed my last show with Rachel, you should go check it out because she was so smart and so good that I was like, yo, you should come do this with me. Also, she writes a great substack newsletter called the up and up and it's all just very smart, very good. And she has the same psychotic impulse that I do, which is I just want to listen to people all the time because that is cheat code for politics. And so I'm super pumped to have you here.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Well, thank you. And I've looked to what you're doing as an example this whole time. So now we get to do it together, which is fun.

[Sarah Longwell]

Amazing. All right, let's jump into it. You've written a lot about religion, AI, tech, policy more broadly, to name just a few things. But what under discussed trends about Gen Z do you see going into the midterm elections?

[Rachel Jen Faza]

It's a great question. And many of the topics you just touched on, I think are kind of the sleeper issues for Gen Z in the midterms. Of course, everyone talks about affordability. And I think that for a long time there's been this idea that affordability is something that only affects older people, and it's just just not true. Economy, affordability, cost of living is the number one issue for young people as well. And for young people, they see many of the other political issues through the lens of affordability. And all of these issues are interconnected. So, I mean, that's far and away the top issue. And when you think about AI and young people's relationship to it, I think it might be expected that young people are going to be the most bullish on AI, the most gung ho, because young people are always leading technological change and revolutions and. But Gen Z is not AI fluent. They are not AI native. It was introduced to all of us at the same time. And so they don't feel very confident in either their ability to navigate it, but also they're very scared about what it's doing to the educational space and also the job market. And many, particularly college students, are worried about whether or not their degrees will be relevant when they get them or if they're still relevant if they just got them. Since AI is changing everything. And that's directly tied to economic concerns as well. And so I think both, yes, cost of living, but also when it comes to jobs and AI, you know, that's another massive issue that I think is underrated.

[Sarah Longwell]

You know, I just want to like stomp on this particular point because it is something I talk about, think about a lot, which is people say the economy and they think people are talking about GDP numbers or even jobs numbers, but like, that's not how people are interacting with the economy. Like, this is where it is about housing, it is about the cost of health care, it is about your electricity bill, it is about the cost of college and whether or not you can afford it. Do you have a job that allows upward mobility and a future? Like, it is all of these things. It is gas prices, it is grocery prices. These things converge to tell one big story. That is what matters the most to everyone, hands down. Doesn't matter who they are. Unless you are people who live at the top of the income scale, where you have the luxury to really be like, no, climate change is the only thing that matters. And I'm like, I am not here to tell you that climate change isn't deeply important. I'm just here to tell you it is not the thing that comes up ever. When you ask people like, how do you think things are going in the country? Like, that's not what they talk about.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Like you said, all of these issues are related. And so when it comes to affordability issues, yeah, they're not talking about, you know, the stock market. They're talking about whether or not they can afford day to day things in their everyday lives. And at the end of the day, that's what young people are looking for from their politicians, from their elected officials. They're looking for people who can make their everyday life better. And they don't feel that it's going very well right now. Right.

[Sarah Longwell]

Which again, this is. Was a lot of like, why did Trump happen? Well, Trump happened because a lot of voters who aren't particularly partisan, aren't particularly political, maybe a little vibey in the way that they make decisions. Said, I don't know, the business guy who had the good economy last time and who promises to lower grocery prices. Like, I'll take him. So. All right, a quick note, because everyone you're going to hear from today is actually like a subcategory of Gen Z. And I learned this from Rachel. She calls them Gen Z 2.0, which is on the younger end of that cohort. It's like the 18 to 24 age range. And these really are the people where I'm like, what is going on with these kids? I don't understand. So I want to start with foreign policy. Now, in that episode that we did with Will Sommer, we heard a lot of skepticism of Israel from the young men that we talked to that ranged from sort of genuine empathy for people in God Gaza to clearly having listened to a lot of Nick Fuentes for these young women, too. Foreign policy was a bit of a frustration with the Trump administration.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Let's listen. I didn't really hesitate to vote for Trump, but if there were any reason they did, it was kind of this. And it just seems like we're just getting into this war with Iran on behalf of Israel. That doesn't benefit us, and I don't think that's a good thing for us to do.

[Sarah Longwell]

When Trump did promise we'd get out.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Of war with Ukraine, and it just.

[Sarah Longwell]

Seems like he's getting into more wars.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

And global stuff with pretty much a lot of other countries.

[Sarah Longwell]

So I'm not really too much in.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Agreement about the global stuff happening and like, Greenland and whatever. But it's supposed to be for strategic.

[Sarah Longwell]

Reasons and, like, for strategic military reasons.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

But I don't know why it's, like, very important now currently, when it wasn't.

[Sarah Longwell]

Like, a few years ago or anything.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Yeah. So I don't really agree too much with how he's getting involved with a lot of the global things.

[Sarah Longwell]

And I guess I'll just have to.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Wait and see what the end result or aftermath is of all of it. I feel like the issue with Israel has been going on for such a long time with the U.S. like, we're just barely getting.

[Sarah Longwell]

We're seeing, like, the worst of it right now, honestly.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

And it's. It's very cruel what's going on in Israel. They shouldn't be murdering and targeting children specifically because they say they don't want them to reproduce. Like, that is insane that killing children specifically is crazy in a war, you know?

[Sarah Longwell]

So you wrote a piece for Vox recently headlined the Quiet Reason why Trump is losing Gen Z. And it basically dealt with this same point. You said there's a bit of a generational split on how involved the US should be in world affairs. Walk us through that and what you hear from Gen Z about why they're more resistant to a robust role in the world.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Yeah. So Gen Z has been raised with their only point of political reference is Trump. And Trump has for a while talked about how he wants to be America First. And this idea of, quote, unquote, America first has really resonated with young people across the ideological or political spectrum. And I think it makes a lot of sense if you boil it down to Americans should come first and the leader of our country should be putting the American people above foreign interests. And that's kind of the baseline of, I think, how young people feel about foreign policy. This comes up in my listening sessions all the time. And young people say, I don't understand why we are getting involved in foreign crises that don't involve us or seem to be a distraction from the domestic issues we are facing here at home. And we started talking about all of the economic concerns that young people are facing and their fears for the future domestically. Then you put on top of that ICE raids and concern over unrest and American citizens literally being killed. And they're like, why are we focusing on these crises abroad when we clearly have our own issues here at home? And so this is something I'm hearing from young people is like, it doesn't make any sense to them and it doesn't appear to be America First.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, I mean, I always say this, that America first is such a good slogan, even though we know it has roots in some really bad stuff. But America first for people isn't a slogan. It's a statement of prioritization. And if you live in America and you are an American, America first just means, oh, I get to be first. Like, my priorities are paramount. But it is interesting. And I wonder what you think about this. I've been floating my own sort of new theory on the schism going into the sort of future of the right post Trump, which is that there is going to be kind of an America first wing, which is more Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene, because I would say both them right now are kind of in this. A real America first agenda has never been tried.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Right.

[Sarah Longwell]

They, like, I supported Trump because he was America First. But why are we helping Israel? Why are we bombing Iran? Why are we talking about Greenland? Like the real America first kind of side that got built around that set of prioritization. Then they bristle at anything that doesn't feel like it is prioritizing Americans and that it is somehow either prioritizing other countries or just like shouldn't be the thing that we're focusing on. Then the other wing of the party is kind of the MAGA establishment and for all of the MAGA establishments, demonization of what they would say like are the neocons from the past Republican Party. The MAGA establishment likes to bomb some things, it likes to saber rattle. It is still very much on the side of isra. And so I don't know, what do you think about that breakdown between those two?

[Rachel Jen Faza]

I totally see that. I see it, you know, within the sort of right leaning youth voter base as well. It clearly came up in, in this focus group, but it also comes up in my conversations with young men in particular. There's a split in terms of there's more of the young men who are listening to people like Tucker Carlson or Nick Fuentes versus more of that, you know, they might be labeled, like you said, as neocon or sort of rhino. But I do hear from some young men too, and I, I mentioned one in that Vox piece I wrote who do appreciate the sort of more hard line traditional foreign policy posture of the old Republican party. And there's certainly some center left folks I think who could get on board with that as well. And I actually kind of see the horseshoe theory coming into play where you have this very progressive young people aligning more with that sort of America first cohort on the right and are getting behind some of the messages that Marjorie Taylor Greene has been sharing recently, which is of course quite ironic, but I definitely see that breaking down within the Republican Party. And I think just the other point I would make about Gen Z when it comes to foreign conflict is they're for the most part pro peace. I think they just don't want there to be global conflict, period. And this is the age cohort that would perhaps be drafted if there were to be a draft. That's something that they're scared of that comes up in conversations. And so I also there see alignment between sort of the more anti interventionalist progressives and the left leaning side of things. And then also this cohort on the right, even if they get to it from a different ideological route, they're kind of landing in the same place.

[Sarah Longwell]

Well, I don't know if it does any good for me to suggest that we all want peace, all of us want peace, but there's also bad guys in the world, and maybe that's us now, too. So anyway, we don't have to get. We don't have to get wrapped up in that because I do want to move on. And speaking of people who are more isolationist in their foreign policy, I want to talk about J.D. vance. A couple weeks ago, Politico reported on one of our focus groups with a lot of young men that you're about to hear. And the lack of enthusiasm for JD Vance got a lot of attention, not the least of which is because some of the J.D. vance's handlers and online combatants were very upset that we were playing sound from a bunch of Trump voters talking about how they think J.D. vance is lame. But I'm sorry, I didn't make them say it like this is how people are talking about J.D. vance, but we did want to flush that finding out just a little bit more. So what you're about to hear is the reaction to J.D. vance from both the Gen Z men and the Gen Z women. Let's listen.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

I never understood too much about him and I don't know enough about him, I guess. I do know that he did come.

[Sarah Longwell]

Out originally and not care for Trump.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

To begin with, but then his views changed. I just haven't seen him do really anything. I've watched him speak. I'm not really a huge fan of him.

[Sarah Longwell]

I wouldn't care to see him go any further.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

I'm not a huge fan either. He just seems kind of weird to me and I don't really trust him, so. And I would not like to see him as the president. Like, I don't know much about him, but something I do remember, like in the debates, he was a really good public speaker. Yeah, I think he's a good speaker. I don't know if I would vote for him if he were to run. I feel like I would have to see how he kind of formulates his own agenda and what he wants to do. I think some of the things that he advocates for are a little bit against maybe what Trump theoretically would push for. So I find that balance interesting. I feel like I just don't see him as like, Trump's vice president. Like, I feel like I don't, like, hear about them a lot together and maybe I just am not seeing things. I think they're just very different from one another in the way that they view things and approach things. But I am happy with the way that Vance has been addressing more of, like, local level or like, communities. Like, he was just recently in Minnesota.

[Rocket Money / Weight Watchers / Talkspace Advertiser]

Although Vance is often he's like, he's younger, he looks a little healthier than all the other presidents I feel like, or possible candidates. I feel like just the way Trump handled his presidency or is handling it now, especially when it comes to the Epstein files because JD Vance was also pushing that as well. I feel like it's just time for someone new, just like a clean slate. It's just time for someone new, especially for the Republican Party.

[Sarah Longwell]

I don't think Vance can win because I think he's too connected to the current political establishment in Washington, which I think has a very negative approval rating right now. Additionally, I don't, don't like Vance a lot. I think he has flip flopped on issues. If you look at what he was about in 2018, 2019 versus 2020, and you look at what he's about now, it's very, very different. Not that someone's views can't change, but like I mentioned earlier, I don't like people that sort of flip flop their views on things. I'd love to see like a Marco Rubio. I was Pretty pro Ron DeSantis four years ago, but I think somebody younger, I really agree with Alexander was saying like somebody younger running an office would be awesome. Rachel, I cannot tell you what it does to me to hear these young people be like, look at Marco Rubio. He's been the same the whole time. And it just, it just breaks my brain that they are looking at, at Rubio as the, the steady. Yeah, no, he's always been like this, right? Like, no, guys, he was like me. Me and Marco Rubio were the same. When I talk about the MAGA establishment, I'm talking about Rubio. I'm talking to people who are like, yes, yes, yes, I was a normal Republican once, but now Trump is right about everything and I do whatever he says. Okay, so Rachel, there's some conventional wisdom that Vance's more isolationist version of the Republican Party is more representative of where Gen Z is right now. Like, what do you think it is about him that doesn't land with folks?

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Authenticity. I don't think he's very authentic and I think young people read right through that. We just heard all these young people say that he doesn't, they're not really sure what he stands for or what he cares about or the fact that he has changed his stance on Trump in particular. That's a big part of it. What struck me in listening to the quotes from the members of your focus groups is that young men were almost more strong in their opposition to Vance than the young women, which I think is really, really fascinating, especially given Vance's comments about women even this past week. And I think maybe young men are seeing him more in their social media feeds than young women are because he's going on some of these shows. And before the election, he was on all the manosphere podcasts that Trump was on or adjacent ones. And maybe young women aren't seeing him as much as young men are. And so they haven't had the exposure and the chance to therefore be more critical. But we clearly heard those young men who don't like him and don't want him to be the candidate.

[Sarah Longwell]

I just want to throw in here that, look, we. We throw the quotes into this show so we can give people a representative kind of sample of what we hear. I gotta tell you, I don't know that this is true forever. People don't like J.D. vance. I wonder if you kind of hear this to this idea of like, well, he's a pretty good speaker and, you know, they find him to be like, his presentation, yes, is good and sufficient and feels. But, like, especially women. Like, one of the women in here did this, but I hear this for a version of this all the time is like, he's weird. There was one in the woman's group we had a little while ago where she was like, right, guys? Like, she was asking. It was a mixed group of men and women. There was like a young woman who was saying to the boys, doesn't he weird you guys out? Like, he weirds me out. And, you know, you mentioned he did this this week with, like, Caitlin Collins. Or he's like, isn't it so funny that she doesn't smile? Wasn't it funny when Trump said, hey, Caitlyn, you should smile more? While she was asking Trump a question about the victims in the Abstein files. So, like, trafficking victims who were trafficked as children or young women, young girls. Why would she be smiling when she says that? But it's such an old man thing to do. To be like, hey, young lady, smile. Like, nobody under the age of 40 does that crap anymore, I don't think. But like, old men do this stuff. And so, like, for Trump, it sort of makes sense. But J.D. vance doing it, I feel like young women look at that and they're like, shut up, man. But like, okay, so anyway, I will take myself out of it, but you tell me, because I think some people are like Sarah Longwell, who hates Trump and probably hates J.D. vance. Like, of course, this is what she's hearing, but it's everywhere. I'm not making it up. So what do you think?

[Rachel Jen Faza]

This is not made up. I hear this in my listening sessions all the time. These are nonpartisan groups of young people. We hear from people across the political spectrum. It's hard to find someone who really loves JD Fans, even amongst young men who are right of center. And I've been hearing recently more appreciation for people like you mentioned before, Ron DeSantis or Marco Rubio. Those are names that have come up. I think people see Rubio on the global stage now. And so he's just someone that they're pointing to because they're interacting with him. But I think, you know, in 2024, there was a conversation about some of these men that young men could look to and aspire towards who, who have been successful in their careers. Vivek Ramaswamy was a prime example of that. I've heard Ramaswamy's name and more of this appreciation for him in his career than for J.D. vance. So, you know, while there's an element of his background that I think people might appreciate, he's not the guy that they're choosing. And also we're hearing that, you know, in one of the quotes you just shared, a young man mentioned that JD Vance feels too tied to this administration given that he is the Vice President of the United States States. And I think in our we did 2026 prediction listening sessions and there was just such a strong appetite for anything beyond Trump on the left and the right. And so someone who is this closely tied to this administration, I think I agree, based on what I'm hearing in my research, isn't going to have that strong of a chance given that people are looking for what's coming next.

[Sarah Longwell]

Hey guys. We've launched our first round of Bulwark live shows for 2026. We've got two in Minneap which are about to be sold out. The first one sold out in like seven hours. So we added a second night. But there's only a few tickets left. Go get some. Maybe there's still a few. When this comes out, all the proceeds are going to go to Second Harvest Heartland, which is great nonprofit that helps feed people in the state. But if Minnesota in February isn't your jam, make sure you snag tickets to our Texas shows, which are on sale now. We are heading to the Lone Star state for a one night show in Dallas on March 18 and one in Austin on March 19. Head to the bulwark.comevents for more information on how to get tickets to all of our shows, Hope to see you there. Come say hi. Want to feel more confident with your finances this year? If you have 60 seconds, I can show you how quick and easy it is to start building healthy money habits that could last you the entire year just by using rocket Money. Step 1 Download Rocket Money. Step 2 Link all your accounts and see your entire spending picture your subscriptions, your upcoming bills, your due dates, everything. Step 3 Tap a subscription you don't use and cancel it. Boom. That's money back every single month. Step 4 Create a financial goal for something you want to save for. Whether it be a vacation, a retirement account, or a pet's birthday, we don't judge now. Let the app automatically move small amounts of cash towards your goal. In a month, you'll see real dollars piling up. In a year, you'll be shocked at how much money you saved, similar to the over 10 million members on the app that have saved up to $740 a year. When using all of the app's premium features, use the Savings Challenge as one step closer to feeling better about your finances. [e-mail] Cancel that's RocketMoney.com Cancel one more time, it's RocketMoney.com.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

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[Sarah Longwell]

It is interesting to start to hear the like, fatigue from young people for whom Trump now has been the dominant figure through much of their lives. Start to be like, okay, what else you got guys? And like, they don't remember the Republican Party that I do. I don't think they have an appetite for that version of the party. But there is an appetite. Although the irony of the strange new respect for Marco Rubio. I am starting to see this all over the groups and it is. I don't know if it's making me laugh or if it's too bizarre, but it is a real thing. Because these young people, they don't know Marco Rubio from the pre Trump era and so they just like think, well, look, he's this competent, grown up in the MAGA establishment. It I'll just say one last thing on the JD Vance lack of Riz no, authenticity is like what is happening to him is what happened to Ron DeSantis. So I tracked the Republican Party's interest in Ron DeSantis the whole time it was happening. And lots of people love DeSantis. In the beginning they were like, oh, look what he's doing down there in Florida. And like, I really like him. That guy's got some stuff. And the second he got on the national stage they're like, this guy sucks. Like, this guy sounds like a regular politician. He sounds like everybody else. He's stilted, he's not fun to listen to. And I feel like part of what's happening with J.D. vance is that same thing where he's like, he doesn't have enough exposure to be sort of everywhere, but he has enough exposure that everyone's getting like a flavor of him. And they're all like, I don't know, this guy's lame and weird and bizarre. And I like, they can smell the inauthenticity, the fact that it is kind of an act from him. And the reason they bring up the flip flopping isn't because they care about flip flopping. It's a like thing they can put their finger on to say, I don't like this guy. I just, I'm not getting the good vibe from him.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Yeah, it's a really good point that they don't care about the flip flopping because Gen Z flip flops all the time. This generation is very used to instant gratification and wants things done really quickly. And if the elected officials aren't going to change the problems that they see in their day to day lives, they're going to, you know, flip to the next guy. And I think about this all the time. Are Gen Z's politics just going to be reactionary because of that? I mean, by the way, Gen Z still voted for Kamala Harris in 2024. There just was a massive shift to the right. It wasn't like all of a sudden, you know, Trump won the youth vote. But I think seeing the shifts within Gen Z's politics, it's a very fluid voting block. And there was Gallup polling that came out last month that showed that 56% of Gen Z considers themselves to be a political independent. So they're not tied to either party. And it's not like they are are completely only going to stick with the party line. You have to pass their sniff test. They're so used to seeing up close and personal on social media and feeling like they have a direct line to the people who are in these positions of power and so they'll call things out when they see it and they want to be able to call a spade a spade on both sides too.

[Sarah Longwell]

There's so much in there, this idea of how different it is to no longer have our public officials mediated through the mainstream media as people my age and older are so used to, because they sit and watch people all day long on their phones. They know when someone's being themselves and when someone's acting. When you say they sniff it out. It is like a totally different level of exposure that young people have in the way that they evaluate people through non intermediated sources. Anyway, it's a whole other discussion, but it is sort of relevant to, I think, the generational difference.

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[Rachel Jen Faza]

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[Sarah Longwell]

Okay, I want to get into some of the boys vs girls gender gap discourse. We talked a lot about this the last. Yeah, this. We talked about this a bunch when you were on last time, but the focus was on conservative men and progressive women. Right? So there was that. And so this time we're going to do it differently. And honestly, we did a lot about, like, the discourse on the discourse in these groups because these young people are kind of into the discourse. I was really interested in how these Gen Z's perceived the political differences between men and women in their generation. So let's listen to how Gen Z women talked about the gender gap.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Graduated from Hamlin University. It's almost like you have to follow these ideologies to do well and to be accepted socially. And then there's also a lot of, like, appealing to emotion within, like, social media and within professors. And women tend to be more emotionally influenced than men are. Not as, like, a weaker vessel, but just because, like, that's how hormonally we kind of tend to respond things. We're more empathetic, sympathetic. And so I think a lot of times when you're in these positions where you need to have a certain belief to be accepted, like, socially or to do well in school or to do well in the workplace with men, I think that Gen Z men are probably starting to become more conservative, honestly, because of, like, current dating situations. I also think that with the amount that, like, schools, especially, like colleges are pushing people towards the left, we're also seeing a huge rise in things like, you know, transgender women in sports. There's just, like, a lot of weird, like, gender imbalances going on where I think, like, a lot of men are trying to find more. Like, they're trying to feel more firm in their identity. And I think, like, pushing towards the conservative values, those traditional values, allows them to achieve that. I think there is a gap, but I think it might be, like, a little overrepresented because I feel like women do feel a certain pressure to, like, kind of conform to what maybe their friends think or what is popular. So maybe this isn't fully representative of personal views. And another thing is, I do feel like Gen Z. Men can be, like, kind of sexist and, like, just sort of, you know, degraded or insulting to women or I guess all men kind of. But so I think the divide is kind of like more of a, like a gender thing than, like, ideology. Maybe a right wing guy would be like, shut up, feminist. And maybe like a left wing guy would, like, try to gaslight you or like, try to just like, oh, I don't think you fully understand the theory or that. Just they'd talk down to you being a homesteader. I'm in with a lot of people.

[Sarah Longwell]

That are also conservative, but I also want to speak really quickly on men.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

I have a husband, and I know that not all men are like this.

[Sarah Longwell]

But my husband didn't come into the picture and force me to be a trad wife. It was a discussion that we had together, and everything that we do is together.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

And he is, you know, he's a.

[Sarah Longwell]

Very strong Republican, but he's also respectful.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

And I think that it's disappointing because not all men are bad.

[Sarah Longwell]

Not all men are pushy and say that women have to do this, this or that. Republican men, I should say, or whatever. There are good men out there for our generation.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Right now, it's a lot more acceptable for a guy to just be outright Republican and love Trump. And for undergrad, I went to a very liberal college where every single girl I knew was liberal. And when you went on social media the day after the election, every single guy was able to just put on their story pictures of, like, Trump winning the election and, like, excitement and all this stuff. There were, like, signs in the women's bathrooms all over campus that said, if you voted for Trump, go kill yourself. Like, all over campus. Coming from women writing those things, I.

[Sarah Longwell]

Feel like we as women are more focused on just being approved of by.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Our peers, while men, they don't really.

[Sarah Longwell]

Care as much about having friends, getting people to like them. Rachel, I heard a bunch of things in there from these women who chalked it up to a kind of peer pressure to be liked because women are more emotional, hormonal, whatever. Is that true?

[Rachel Jen Faza]

I mean, there's obviously hormonal differences, but I think. I think it's less of a peer pressure and more of a group think. I also think there's a piece of it where, you know, if you look at the policies that Republicans are putting out, especially on the local level, when it comes to reproductive health care access, it's not necessarily policies that women can get behind. So I don't necessarily think it's so Much of a social dynamic and about the social fabric or even group think, which, you know, you could say is a part of it. It's actually, I think, more times about the policies and about the issues. And when I ask in my research, you know, what is it about their Republican Party that is pushing you away? It's often the fact that they're not protecting women's rights is what I hear.

[Sarah Longwell]

I of course, agree that there are many differences between men and women, hormonally and otherwise. But I guess it's this idea that, like, there's a social desirability bias. Like women, unlike men, care about what people think and want to be included. In my experience with humans, they all want that. And so when you say like, groupthink or peer pressure, I wonder if there's just like kind of a social norming thing that is happening. It's all rooted in something. And I think you're right. It's rooted in, like, kind of policy. But also it sounds like it's rooted in socially, the way people engage. Right. If, like, a lot of these young women are dealing with young men who are talking in ways that they find it's. It's funny the way they just kind of casually toss in, like, well, you know, yeah, men are degrading or talk down to women. But to me, that seems almost a more important factor in some of the gender divides, where if you are a young woman and you feel like men are acting like this and they're using politics as an outlet or a permission structure to act like this to women that, like, then they reject the politics that are also making men behave in this way that affects them directly.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

I have so many thoughts based on the quotes we just heard, but one of them is that if the young women are saying that most young women think and feel this way, and that's because of the sort of social pressures associated with it, does the same thing not go for the young men where maybe it's just that young men are more on the right because that's like the cool thing for young men right now to be and to do. And I know in our research we've heard from young men who say, I don't agree with the way that the president talks about women, or I don't agree with, you know, certain aspects of, of his administration's policies, and yet they're not willing to associate with the Democratic Party either, in part because it's just so, quote, unquote, like, uncool for a man to say they are a Democrat, right? Now still, even though maybe that's getting better since 2024, but certainly in 2024, there was a social pressure amongst young men to not be a Democrat. And so I think it goes both ways. The other piece that surfaced in those anecdotes and those quotes is that, you know, the fact that these women are saying not all men are bad, not all men say these horrible things. It goes to show that a significant portion, or at least in the discourse, it seems like a significant portion, whether it's on social media or in mainstream media and pop culture, are using derogatory language or are talking harshly about women. And that's just been so normalized that it becomes kind of the, you know, the baseline.

[Sarah Longwell]

I heard that too. When people kind of do the like, well, not all men are like this. I'm like, so you think. You think the vast majority of them talk this way about women? And I gotta say, this is just because it's top of mind because, you know, we're dealing with the release of all the Epstein files. It is sort of shocking when you see the way that these men were talking to each other about women in the files. And this isn't even like the stuff that is the grotesqueries of the trafficking of young girls. It's about just like in the general course of interactions, they were referring to women as knee pads or they were referring to the way that that Dr. Ratia guy that Barry Weiss is trying to keep on CBS was talking about women. You're like, oh, wow. I gotta say, sometimes I. This can feel a little anthropological to me. Not just because they're younger, but I think this is like, maybe a weird conversation to have, but it does cross my mind when I hear them, is that as a lesbian who never cared about men and what they thought that much, like, I. I thought about as like, humans, I cared. But I think that I often wonder, I'm like, do women care more about what men have to say than I ever did? And like, is that a difference with straight girls? And maybe girls that were not interested in attracting men or interested in partnering with men? But I also, because of that, I feel like I often get more of a glimpse into the world of men or my dude friends all my life. And so, like, I'm not naive about the way that people talk and whatever. And also, women can say lots of things about men too. Like this, not all. We don't have to be scandalized by absolutely everything. But I was sort of struck by the, like, they're not all bad. And I Can't tell if what they're saying is, I meet lots of men, most of them are bad, and I'm glad I got a good one. Or if they're saying, the women that I'm around think all men are bad. And I think that's not true based on, like, my personal circumstances. You know what I'm saying?

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Yeah. That's obviously a distinction, and it's hard to tell which angle they're coming at from it. But I think in the same way that sort of public discourse talks about, you know, the fact that there are so many examples of men being vulgar or talking in a way, about women and how public that all is, I think that young men have internalized that, too, and it's part of their own identity and their figuring out their identity. And whenever I ask about dating in our listening sessions, there's a fear from young men that they are very cautious about what they say to young women because they know that this baseline perception is there, that men are creepy and men might make unwanted advances. And so they're very reactionary and cautious as a result. And it's almost recalibrated how young men. Not almost. It has recalibrated how young men are willing to approach young women, and it's contributing to this gender gap, too. So, again, you know, these. These norms and the stigma goes both ways, and it's changing how young men and young women interact with each other, and also what's normalized amongst groups of themselves, too. And then I think there's that, again, social pressure, where they feel like they kind of have to speak in this way or have to use this language in order to fit in. And so it's very complicated, but I think it's deeply interwoven. Also, you know, you mentioned kind of how women perceive themselves and. And how women perceive men. And I think that for Gen Z, who have only lived In Trump's America 2016, I was a freshman in college during the 2016 election, and then the women's marches were in 2017. That was my freshman year of college. And this whole generation of young women grew up with this identity of we as women come together and sort of this resistance. And I think that that is interwoven into young women's political identity as well. But it's also part of our gender identity.

[Sarah Longwell]

As I was listening, I was thinking there's some cocktail in here of MeToo being a dominant feature of the culture for a period of time. And then the backlash, to me, too, being a dominant feature of the time and like, somehow those things are interwoven. I'm not quite sure how to disaggregate them really well. But, like, you can see both those, the tensions of those things and impacting young people in this moment in a way where I think older people who've kind of just can see the swings. It's different than if you kind of grew up with, like, the culture pressing down on you about what it means to be a woman, what it means to be a man as you come of age.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Totally. I think that as you come of age piece is what's so important is because these national conversations have been happening in the context of our adolescent years, of the time when we're figuring out who we are and our gender and sexual identity and how to date and how to, you know, maybe find the person that you want to spend the rest of your life with, etc. It's all been tied so closely to this, like, very pervasive national conversation that we're watching 24 7, and there's a conversation about it happening on every podcast, on every social media platform. And in many ways, you know, the gender gap is seen as this political thing, but it's not political. It's. It's tied to every part of our lives, and it's more relational than it is political. And it's very different if you grew up during me too. And that was kind of shaping your relationship to how you perceive your own gender and your relationships and how you date than if you've already had kids and you aren't navigating that dating culture and climate.

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[Rachel Jen Faza]

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[Sarah Longwell]

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[Rachel Jen Faza]

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[Sarah Longwell]

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[Sarah Longwell]

You just walked us into a good transition, so let's do it. Because one thing we heard a lot in these groups is their reluctance to date someone from the other side of the political spectrum which if you start to think about far more women being Democrats and far more men being Republicans, you start to see there's a supply and demand problem there. So let's listen to how the women talked about that. I just don't think it's possible to.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Date someone like that doesn't share the same values with you even like religion wise, like same thing with values. I just don't think it would ever work and like there would always be a fight.

[Sarah Longwell]

A big reason for me that I don't think it would work is because of my family. My family is very, very strong, you.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Know, Republican and I think that if.

[Sarah Longwell]

I brought somebody home that wasn't, I.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Don'T know how they would react.

[Sarah Longwell]

To be honest or this probably sounds horrible but I know how my family.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Is and they'd probably say something offensive.

[Sarah Longwell]

And it would not end well.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

I'm in a relationship and I am in a very heavily Christ centered relationship. We're following very biblical values in the way that we're dating one another and I think it's almost a little bit of an oxymoron to be a progressive Christian or a left leaning Christian. So for me, if someone was very strong as a liberal, I would question their biblical integrity or their integrity as a follower of Christ. And that's more important to me than politics. And I feel like that just typically aligns with conservative values. It's like also like about my parents, you know, because I don't want to bring someone home that they like, would argue with or someone that would like, cause a fire because, you know, that's just not something I'd be willing to do.

[Sarah Longwell]

So Rachel, you made this point actually to my producer about the supply and demand issue. And so these women don't have to be open to dating across the political divide because there's plenty of conservative dudes out there and there's not that many conservative women, whereas conservative men do need to be. What differences do you hear in men's and women's attitudes on dating and the role politics plays? And after you answer that, we are going to play some of these Gen Z men on dating. Go ahead.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Yeah, so these women are very much in the minority because they are conservative or center right women, right of center women. And so they have a choice like they can find a conservative man easily to date. Whereas liberal women have a very different situation because they're, you know, there's more conservative men. And so liberal women might have to think more seriously over whether or not they're willing to date a conservative man. And then on the contrary, conservative men might have to date a liberal woman because there's more liberal women. And I think that for a lot of young people, they're kind of willing to put politics aside. I mean, I know plenty of people, even in my own personal life where the woman is more liberal than the man and it works. And you know, they kind of butt heads sometimes, but like, that's the way it is and that's how it kind of should be. Right? Like we should be okay with having political differences. I mean, I know so many couples, especially parents age and older, who are from opposite political viewpoints. And like, that's a beautiful thing to have those conversations and you might argue at the dinner table and you're also giving permission structure for your kids to have different political opinions and to argue at the dinner table too in a, in a way that is productive. But I think this idea that if all young women are liberal and all young men are conservative, there's never going to be able to be any couples and we're going to have a problem like that is not Helpful to anyone. We already have a problem with declining birth rates. And I think the fact that young men and young women just feel so at odds is only contributing to that even more.

[Sarah Longwell]

I don't know, man. That's a tough one, because getting married. Well, so first of all, I mean, my first thought is like, yeah, I experienced this. You know what it was like being a young lesbian. I used to just, people would ask me what I did at the bar and I'd be like, I'm a firefighter. You know, like, what was I going to tell him? I was a Republican operative, whatever. But of course, you know, I married someone who was like an NPR listening normie who thought I was fine, but, like, both of us were kind of moderates. Also, when she did tell her parents that, I remember she was like, she's a libertarian. She's a libertarian. It's fine. But like, these are real things that young people navigate on the dating scene. And I think I remember us talking about this and being like, but we share the same values. Because your point about seeing a parents argue, like, is actually like a really good thing for kids to see, because it's good to see, like, disagreement modeled under a banner of love or a foundation of love. Right. Like, you sort of want that for the entire country that we can disagree and still be held together as a country. But the values alignment gap that I think I felt with people when I was in my twenties wasn't very big. Like, we had policy disagreements, but not values disagreements. Whereas feel like now that gap in values is kind of big as it's represented in politics. Or maybe not. Maybe I'm overstating it, but what do you think?

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Well, I think it goes back to kind of the idea that young people's political leanings are not set in stone and are actually really fluid. And most young people don't align with either party. And so I think a lot of the reason why many young men voted for Trump in 2024 wasn't because they agreed with every value that Trump has or doesn't have, but more so because it was kind of the cultural thing to do. And we're seeing many of these high profile men who supported Trump in 2024 withdraw that support, especially after what's been going on in Minnesota with ice, etc. These values, quote, unquote, are not set in stone. And I think the political vote in 2024 wasn't necessarily rooted in values so much as it was in economic anxiety. And so I don't necessarily think that just because a young man voted for Trump and is right of center does not mean that they are. First of all, that doesn't mean that they're anti choice. There were a lot of men who were pro choice who voted for Trump. I wrote a piece about that at the time, and I just don't think that the mismatch of values is actually as clear as it might seem. And I don't think that it's black and white. And therefore I think that a lot of these relationships are possible because the political leaning is way more fluid than we make it out to be.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, I'd buy that. I buy that. That makes sense.

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[Sarah Longwell]

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I think Covid had a big deal.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

To do with it because I feel.

[Sarah Longwell]

Like when Covid happened, a lot more echo chambers started really appearing or being more effective, especially with, like, the slew.

[Rocket Money / Weight Watchers / Talkspace Advertiser]

Of people running to Twitter. And I just feel like a lot of times guys usually have a more.

[Sarah Longwell]

Objective sense on things and a lot of times women have a more emotional way of thinking about things. I think here. Yeah, I mean, look, I remember there's a journal article right after the election, like, Gen Z Men had flipped, I think, 10 to 15 points. Trump and Gen Z women had flipped almost five to 10 points. Harris. And that's the huge discrepancy. I mean, you look at, I don't know, about a lot of us, like, I'm very blessed to have an awesome conservative girlfriend, but, like, I don't know, I don't think I would ever be able to date a liberal woman in this setting because of the values being so, so different. I look at a lot of my friends who are men and are conservatives, and one of the first things they get asked on dates all the time is, yo, are you a conservative? And then immediately the woman will just think, bang. Can't date this guy because he's, like, evil to a certain extent. Like, as the Democratic Party for years, I think, has abandoned young men, I think by focusing so much on gender politics and all this other stuff, a lot of times I think young men felt, myself included, felt kind of pushed to the wayside and, like, not important to the Democratic Party, though.

[Rocket Money / Weight Watchers / Talkspace Advertiser]

I've heard, though, like, a lot of people are shameful of Republican men or that they might be too much or too masculine and it's toxic masculinity or. Or whatever. But honestly, when it comes to dating or whatever, I don't mind if I date a Democrat. You know, I honestly, like, politics is not a big talking point in my life. I don't go around actively talking about.

[Sarah Longwell]

Politics, women not dating men who are Republican. I didn't particularly experience it like that. But my friend who's my roommate, his ex girlfriend was a Democrat and she wrote me into some debate about some.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Topic that they were having and.

[Sarah Longwell]

And that didn't really go right I didn't try to be, like, too deep into it because I've heard, like, how she could be about certain topics, but that was not fun when we discussed about it. I personally have a girlfriend, and she's actually a Democrat. I mean, I've seen here in Illinois, again, Illinois is very, very Democrat. And I've definitely seen lots of girls that they say, like, oh, I would never date someone who voted for Trump. And with my girlfriend at the beginning, she definitely had, like, some wrong ideas about what being a conservative means. Like, she just said that, oh, if you're a conservative, that means that you're gonna love Trump no matter what he does. And no, I explained to her, like, hey, I mean, I'm a conservative because I believe in these values. I believe in the traditional family. I believe in the Christian values. I believe in a free market instead of socialism. And this is what the left has done in my country, and this is what the right has done in my country. So she still doesn't like Trump. She's just a Democrat.

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She already kind of shifted to the.

[Sarah Longwell]

Point where she can understand right now why some people are Republicans, why some people are Democrats. So there's a lot of discourse and a lot of money. Actually, there's not just a lot of discourse, there's a lot of money around this idea of sort of reaching young men who have shifted to the right. What do you think the conventional wisdom gets right and wrong about this cohort of men?

[Rachel Jen Faza]

So we just heard in that last quote that that young man was explaining, like, what it means to him to be conservative and why he has conservative beliefs and values, and it's not tied to Trump. And I think a lot of the conversation about young men shifting right was very Trump centric. I think it actually misses their relationship to Trump and the fact that what's going to happen when he's no longer running and when he's no longer the face of the Republican Party, and you heard this young man saying he believes in free market values and he believes in, you know, the traditional role of family and religion and faith. If Democrats can get their messaging right on those three things, which, you know, used to be kind of part of the Democratic Party, too, then there's no saying that these young men are still voting for Republicans. So I think that part of the. What's missing is that it's, you know, this idea that the key to young men is the manosphere, and you have to talk about sports all the time, and you have to talk about betting, and you have to Talk about crypto and like, yeah, these are things that are more, you know, geared towards young men, but it's kind of more simple. It's about values. And they feel like the Democratic Party abandoned the values that they care about, which are. Well, I think the role of family is really important and has been ceded to the right. I think the role of religion is really important and has been ceded to the right. And I know that you guys had a piece at the Bulwark last week about Democrats in religion and looking at candidates like James Talarico or even John Shapiro, you know, with his new book that he's really talking about his, his Judaism. I think we're seeing examples of Democrats leaning more into religion. Religion comes up all the time in my conversations with young people, young men and young women and young women. I think, you know, when you think of a conservative person in this country right now or a conservative young person, you picture a MAGA hat wearing young man. But that's just not. Not the case. There are so many religious young people who are not conservative. So I think that's one of the values that, that needs to be revisited. You know, one of the quotes was about socialism. And I think there are a lot of young men who believe in capitalism who feel like that means they're a Republican and it doesn't have to be that way.

[Sarah Longwell]

Right. Also, I have a couple cheers for capitalism over here as well. All right, Rachel, Jen Faza, you were excellent. This was an excellent conversation. So thank you and thanks to all of you for listening to another episode of the focus group podcast. We're going to be back next week, but in the meantime, remember to rate and review us on Apple podcasts, subscribe to the board on YouTube and become a board plus member at the bulwark.com we will see you soon. Bye.

[Rachel Jen Faza]

Thanks, Sarah. Day or night, VRBoCare is here 247 to help make every part of your stay seamless. If anything comes up or you simply need a little guidance, support is ready whenever you reach out. From the moment you book to the moment you head home. We're here to help things run smoothly because a great trip starts with the right support. And hey, a good playlist doesn't hurt either. Support is available 24. 7 with VRBoCare. We're here day or night, ready whenever you need help. Because a great trip starts with the right support.

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This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace.

[Sarah Longwell]

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