S6 Ep25: Texas-Sized Scandal (with Eric Benson)

Summary

The Focus Group Podcast: "Texas-Sized Scandal"

Host: Sarah Longwell (The Bulwark)
Guest: Eric Benson (Texas Monthly)
Date: February 21, 2026
Episode: S6 Ep25

---

Overview

This episode plunges into the high-stakes, drama-filled Texas GOP Senate primary, which Sarah Longwell calls "a hilarious illustration of the current state of the GOP." With veteran Texas reporter Eric Benson as her co-pilot, the show analyzes voter sentiment around the key Republican candidates—John Cornyn (incumbent Senator), Ken Paxton (scandal-plagued Attorney General), and Wesley Hunt (rising MAGA-aligned Congressman). Through focus group clips and sharp commentary, the hosts probe what the Texas electorate really thinks about these contenders, and what it all reveals about the evolution of both Texas politics and the Republican Party.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Texas Politics Is So Unique

[03:32–05:57]

• Texas is richly diverse: From the border towns near the Rio Grande Valley to the plains of the Panhandle, the state encompasses a range of cultures and sub-states, each with distinct identities.
  • "It’s such a diverse state, from the east to the west, from the north to the south. It contains everything." — Eric Benson (03:59)
• The notion that Texas is merely a solid red state is outdated; there’s significant demographic and political flux, especially with shifting suburbs and diversifying metro areas.

Changing voter blocks:

• South Texas, once solidly Democrat, has leaned red; suburbs of Dallas/Houston are increasingly diverse, impacting political dynamics.
• The long-held belief that Texas might flip blue is repeatedly tested but rarely realized.
  • "I think it would be silly to predict at this point that Texas was going to turn blue, at least anytime soon...which isn’t to say it couldn’t happen this year, but that's a funny joke." — Eric Benson (08:19)

---

2. Voter Confusion & Apathy in the GOP Primary

[09:06–11:07]

• Clips reveal that many Republican primary voters are not deeply engaged:
  • Some can't remember who’s actually running ("I’m going to be voting for Ted Cruz." — focus group participant, 11:07).
  • General sense of malaise; no clear favorite, many are underwhelmed by the choices, and confusion about candidates abounds.

---

3. Senator John Cornyn: The Establishment “Placeholder”

[11:11–18:30]

• Cornyn’s struggle with image: Despite a long record in the Senate, voters see Cornyn as dull, uninspiring, and lacking the “fighter” spirit they crave.
  • "He just seems like he’s just been there forever...just kind of a placeholder." — Focus group participant (13:26)
  • "He votes and looks nice and does his job and is professional. No complaints. Just would love more action from him." — Focus group participant (13:43)
• His record as a skilled legislator is actually a liability; achievements are perceived as “RINO”/establishment.
  • "If John Cornyn were to run a campaign on his strengths...these aren’t things that John Cornyn is spending a lot of time saying himself." — Eric Benson (16:47)
• Cornyn resorts to running against his own track record, touting anti-Sharia law ads and attacking rivals' conservative credentials—messaging far removed from his strengths.

Notable Quote:
"He can't talk about his accomplishments as a US Senator, and instead he has to kind of do a bit of a race to the bottom with the other candidates." — Eric Benson (16:47)

---

4. The Ken Paxton Paradox: Scandal as a Badge of Honor

[22:31–29:25]

• Voters are aware of Paxton’s scandals: Adultery, corruption, financial impropriety. Some are “appalled”; others outright say he’s “a slimy snake.”
  • "Ken Paxton has a long history of integrity issues and that concerns me because...I want to be able to trust the person that's in office." — Focus group participant (22:47)
  • "I'm pretty convinced I’m going to vote for Ken Paxton...That’s the nature of all politics. All politicians really." — Focus group participant (23:34)
  • "If I was voting on deacons for our church, definitely Ken Paxton wouldn’t be part of it… but I would be voting for whether politically I thought he would represent us." — Focus group participant (24:03)
• But scandal is no longer disqualifying: Many voters separate personal morals from political effectiveness. Paxton’s willingness to “fight” using his office for culture-war purposes trumps his legal baggage.
• Paxton’s strategy: He files high-profile lawsuits and casts himself as a MAGA warrior. Scandals have become proof he’s upsetting the right people.
  • "He has had these financial scandals. He was impeached...But he gave the conservative base...what they want." — Eric Benson (29:25)

Memorable comparison:
"The old Republican Party...was like, ‘I'm not going to go near this corrupt stuff.’...to the new Republican Party, which is like, ‘give me the corrupt stuff, as long as it's done in service of MAGA...’" — Sarah Longwell (33:37)

---

5. Why Compromise & Legislative Success Don’t Sell Anymore

[35:17–37:19]

• “Compromise” is no longer a virtue. Voters see deal-making and effectiveness as evidence of being a “RINO” or weak.
  • “They see compromise as weakness...there’s not an incentive structure for compromise if the voters don’t want it.” — Sarah Longwell (37:19)
• Voters want “fighters,” not legislators. This is reshaping both campaign rhetoric and party incentives.

---

6. The Wesley Hunt Wild Card

[40:22–47:20]

• Hunt, a younger Black Congressman, is the least known but could be very competitive in a runoff with either Paxton or Cornyn.
• Voters are curious but skeptical: Questions arise about his voting record (“he didn’t vote for Donald Trump”), his attendance, and whispered smear campaigns.
  • “Now, Wesley Hunt, the only thing that’s really holding me back on him is he did not vote for Donald Trump...That makes me wonder, like, is he really aligned?” — Focus group participant (41:49)
• Hunt rebranded himself as a MAGA loyalist after initially being viewed as more moderate.
  • "He has really lashed himself to Trump...his campaign is that he’s not Ken Paxton or John Cornyn, and he’s a MAGA true believer.” — Eric Benson (43:59)
• He faces an uphill battle: less funding, less name recognition, but could become a “real threat.”

---

7. What Happens Next? Runoff Scenarios

[47:20–48:29]

• A runoff is a certainty, and it’s very likely Paxton will be in the top two.
• If it’s Paxton vs. Cornyn, the more activist candidate (Paxton) has the upper hand.
  • “...the more activist, approved. I’m not even going to say more conservative, but whatever. The more kind of activist, approved candidate wins because those are the voters who are more passionate.” — Eric Benson (47:38)
• Hunt making the runoff could destabilize predictions.

---

8. How Do Christian Voters Square Voting for Scandal-Tainted Candidates?

[50:49–52:51]

• Paxton speaks evangelical “language” fluently—invoking Bible stories, martyrdom, and faith-based narratives—which resonates more than his actions.
  • “He talks about Jesus...compared his political struggles to those of Joseph in the Old Testament... He speaks that language. So I think people, even if they don’t like the actions, they hear the words that he’s saying and the way he’s wrapping himself in a kind of martyrdom, and they can get behind that.” — Eric Benson (50:49)

---

9. Trump’s Influence

[53:40–54:37]

• Trump has withheld endorsement so far, not wanting to risk looking “weak” (if his candidate loses) or “stupid” (if his pick loses the general).
  • “I think Trump would probably rather look stupid than weak. But I think he would rather not endorse and avoid both of those things.” — Eric Benson (54:10)

---

10. Democratic Primary & General Election Possibilities

[54:37–59:02]

• The upcoming Democratic primary between James Talarico and Jasmine Crockett mirrors national discussions: electability versus energizing the base.

• Talarico is seen as the “safer” general election candidate, especially if Paxton wins the GOP nod.

• National Republicans fear a Paxton nomination could drain resources and make the seat surprisingly competitive.

  • “One thing that's interesting is when I talk to kind of national level Republicans, the thing that freaks them out about Ken Paxton winning the primary is not so much Senator Ken Paxton, it's this would become a very competitive race and we would have to spend so much money on it and we would still probably win. But spending that much money would siphon off money from Alaska and Maine and North Carolina and then we might lose those races.” — Eric Benson (57:59)

---

Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• “If our political purity test is ‘didn’t cheat on your wife’ but we all support Trump, that’s going to be a tough position to defend.” — Sarah Longwell, reading from focus group (22:31)
• "My rationale for Ken Paxton is...all politicians really, they're going to tell you what you want to hear, so you'll vote for them and then proceed to do whatever they want..." — Focus group participant (23:34)
• "He [Cornyn] has a little brother personality where he just hangs on, he’s a hanger on. And I think those kind of personalities are easy to bulldoze.” — Focus group participant (14:49)
• "He talks about himself and compared his political struggles to those of Joseph in the Old Testament and...being turned on by his brothers and then coming to sit in their judgment.” — Eric Benson, on Paxton’s evangelical appeal (50:49)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:32 – Texas's political and cultural diversity
• 07:52 – Why Texas hasn’t become a blue state
• 09:33 – Focus group reactions: GOP voter confusion and candidate apathy
• 11:11 – Cornyn’s struggle with image and “toughness”
• 16:47 – Why Cornyn can’t campaign on his strengths
• 22:31 – How Republican voters rationalize or reject Ken Paxton’s scandals
• 29:25 – Paxton’s legal troubles and populist strategy
• 33:37 – Old vs. new Republican Party attitudes to corruption
• 35:17 – Why “compromise” is now a dirty word among GOP base voters
• 40:22 – Introduction to the Wesley Hunt wild card
• 43:59 – How Hunt positioned himself in the race
• 47:20 – Runoff scenarios and likely outcomes
• 50:49 – How evangelical language shields Paxton from scandal fallout
• 53:40 – Trump’s endorsement (or lack thereof) calculus
• 54:53 – Democratic primary and electability
• 57:59 – GOP anxiety about a Paxton/Talarico general election

---

Tone and Style

The conversation is frank, witty, and laced with sardonic humor—especially as the hosts contrast the perceived absurdity of the current Texas GOP with the apparent reasonableness of establishment politicians like Cornyn. Focus group comments featured are candid, at times exasperated, offering a raw look at what base voters believe—and what they’re willing to justify.

---

Summary

This lively, insightful episode of The Focus Group Podcast dissects the Texas GOP Senate primary as a microcosm of national Republican upheaval. It reveals base voter cynicism, apathy for professional politicians, a preference for “fighters” over dealmakers, and broad willingness to excuse personal scandal if candidates strike the right rhetorical notes. The wild card nature of the race, fueled by voter confusion and shifting priorities, underscores why Texas remains both a crucial case study and an electoral puzzle heading into 2026.

Transcript

[Sarah Longwell]

The number one resolution for people last year was to save more money, but nearly half gave up by February. Don't let that be you. Download Rocket Money to reach your financial goals this year, track your spending, cut waste and automate savings in one simple app. Rocket Money shows you all your expenses and categorizes them so you know exactly where your money's going and where you're overspending. From there, the app cuts waste by canceling your unused subscriptions and lowering your bills. No customer service needed. With that money freed up, the app will automatically set some cash aside for your goals. Whether it's an emergency fund, paying off debt or saving for vacation, Rocket Money's got you covered. Users love the app, with over 186,000 five star ratings, and on average, users can save up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features. Make saving money a priority this year. Go to RocketMoney.com Cancel to get started. That's RocketMoney.com Cancel RocketMoney.com Cancel when you're a pro, you gotta do a little bit of everything.

[Eric Benson]

A little,

[Sarah Longwell]

a little, and even a little. And it helps to have something that works as hard as you do. That's why Valspar has durable, high coverage paint for every job, every time made.

[Eric Benson]

For more Valspar pros, head to Lowe's today and talk to a pro rep about saving time and money on your

[Sarah Longwell]

next job with Valspar.

[Eric Benson]

Signature paint exclusions apply. See valsparpro.com for details. Hey guys, the tickets are live for our shows in Dallas on March 18th and Austin on March 19th, and they are flying off the shelves like hotcakes. They're not actually on shelves, it's just on the Internet. Go get your tickets soon. Everything's bigger in Texas, and these shows are going to be bigger too, and they're the best way to meet all your friends in the Bulwark community. People have such a blast at the shows, hanging out with each other. Yeah, you get to meet us, but it's a lot more fun, I think, to meet each other. It's just always great to be together. These shows are really one of my favorite things to do. I love being there and I think it's going to be really fun to be in Texas, so we really hope to see you out there. Get your [e-mail] events. That's thebullwork.com events. Hello everyone, and welcome to the Focus Group podcast. I'm Sarah Longwell, publisher of the Bulwark and this week we're kicking off our 2026 election coverage in earnest. If you're an election super nerd who wants to go deep on the pre midterm primaries, you've come to the right place. This week we're checking in with Republicans in Texas because the Senate race is, I don't know, like a hilarious illustration of the current state of the gop. Senator John Cornyn is running for a fifth term, and he's been a pretty reliable, if somewhat boring, supporter of Donald Trump's agenda. But he is still fighting for his political life. And it turns out there are some Republicans in Texas who'd rather vote for a corrupt guy with a string of scandals, like Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, because he is a fighter, which might sound familiar. There's also a newer candidate who voters think looks great on paper, but they have a lot of questions about him. And his name is Wesley Hunt. We'll be talking about him a little bit. This race is most likely going to a runoff with two of these three guys, but which two is an open question even to Donald Trump, who says he has endorsed all three candidates. My guest today is Eric Benson, senior writer at Texas Monthly. Eric, thanks for being here.

[Sarah Longwell]

Thanks for having me.

[Eric Benson]

I'm excited. I love when we get a reporter who is like deep in these races to talk to us because I just think you guys know so much more than those of us sort of trying to cover it all from the national scene. You've been covering Texas for a long time, everything from national politics to BUC EE's and high school quarterbacks. Is there anything in particular that you think makes Texas like a particularly interesting political state to cover?

[Sarah Longwell]

It's such a diverse state, from the east to the west, from the north to the south. It contains everything. And so if you're down in the Rio Grande Valley, you feel like you're very much in the north of Mexico or in some area sort of between two countries. And then if you're up in the Texas Panhandle, you're in a Great Plains state, basically. And so that's one of the reasons it's fascinating to cover as a reporter. It's also one of the reasons it's challenging to run in as a politician. As Texans would say, it's a nation unto itself. Texas Monthly is the national magazine of Texas. So you're asking a Texan or an adopted Texan about that. And yeah, it has a lot.

[Eric Benson]

Are you adopted? Are you not from the state?

[Sarah Longwell]

Oh, no, no. I'm. We'll have to say this really quietly, I. I grew up in New York City.

[Eric Benson]

Oh, no. Tough.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah.

[Eric Benson]

You know, it's funny that you say that that's how you sort of think about the state. Just because I remember very formatively in my early 20s, in an early job, I had to travel to all the colleges across Texas. And so I remember driving across these, like, vast expanses, but then also being in these, like, incredibly funky towns. You know, all the keep Austin weird people is so different from the Dallas spra, is different from San Antonio. It's just. It is a wild place. And like, with each one having its own metro newspaper, its own sports teams. And you know, when they say everything's bigger in Texas, I think that when you live outside of Texas, it's very easy to think of Texas as one thing, just a big old red state that's kind of a border state. But yeah, I don't think that people who aren't from there realize the multitudes that it contains. Which I guess just for as a political matter, when you think of coverage, is there more going on than meets the eye? Like, are there ways that it's been changing over the years that you've been covering it that make it maybe more interesting than the broader political analysis would give it credit for?

[Sarah Longwell]

Well, huge changes. I don't know if people have been paying attention, but I mean, you look at, you know, South Texas was solidly Democratic territory and it always was going to be. And that area has probably swung red more than any other part of the country or virtually any other part of the country. I mean, the suburbs of Dallas and Houston, which were like the rock ribbed Republican part of the state, now there's still plenty of Republicans, but those are some of the most diverse parts of the state as well. I mean, you drive out to the Dallas suburbs and of course these are political issues as well. I mean, you're getting into large Indian populations, you're getting into large Middle Eastern populations, large East Asian populations. And those political groups have different things that they want. And so I think it's totally changing all the time in much the way it is a lot of other places, because it's not just a rural state or just an urban state. You can find a lot of the trends here in a, you know, a fairly short drive from any major city.

[Eric Benson]

Yeah, I remember I wrote an article, I'm trying to remember what it must have been going into 2020, probably, where I wrote an article, said that don't mess with Texas, meaning I was sort of telling Democrats like Give guys, let this go. Like this is not going to happen for you. Stop spending so much money here. Because Democrats have sort of long looked at Texas's diversification and thought, man, maybe the Democrats are going to get here someday. And to your point about actually some of the places that were these Democratic strongholds have been getting redder all the time. And this is part of the broader trends around Hispanics or much higher percentage of Hispanics voted for Trump, although they're also one of the first groups to sort of abandon him and be frustrated with him, which is something we've chronicled a lot on the show. Do you think that Texas is the kind of place that could become a blue state eventually or do you think that is fantastical thinking?

[Sarah Longwell]

So I'll just say I came to Texas in June 2013. The COVID of Texas Monthly in August 2013 was State Senator Wendy Davis, who had just come off her filibuster of an abortion bill and was about to run against soon to be Governor Abbott and the Castro brothers. And this was like the new great Democratic wave. I think Robert Draper, who I know has been on your show, wrote that story.

[Eric Benson]

Yeah.

[Sarah Longwell]

And then four years later we had Beto o' Rourke running. I cover that campaign a lot. And it was looking really close to Texas turning blue. And the conversation was what he would go around and say is Texas isn't a red state or a blue state, it's a non voting state. Well, you get to 2020 and a lot of non voters showed up and a lot of them voted for Donald Trump, which began to put the whole theory in question. So whatever former President Bush said about fool me once, fool me twice, I think it would be silly to predict at this point that Texas was going to turn blue, at least anytime soon. Which isn't to say it couldn't happen this year, but that's a funny joke.

[Eric Benson]

Both that was a good W poll and a good way to. I like that funny guy. All right, before we get into how our focus groups talked about the individual candidates, I want to give you a quick flavor for how people are thinking or in some cases, as we know from these focus groups, not thinking about this race. Every voter you're going to hear today is a Republican from Texas who voted for Donald Trump in 2024. So let's listen.

[Sarah Longwell]

I don't know if anyone remembers what the Soviet Politburo was. At one time it was harder to get kicked out of the Senate than the Soviet Politburo. I feel like almost anytime we have a chance to get rid of a senator, you know, we might take it

[Eric Benson]

just like the Epstein files. There's images that you believed about people, and then all of a sudden these names have come out and the rose colored glasses have come off, and I feel like the threats that go deep. So before I make a decision as to who I want to vote for, I just want to educate myself a little bit more before I vote. Really, there's no one that's standing out that I'm excited about.

[Sarah Longwell]

I don't want any of these Democratic candidates who, frankly, are terrible and terrify me. I don't want any of them sneaking in, like with a Ken Paxton, who I think, I don't know. This is me. I do not like him. I think he should have been convicted. I have very strong opinions about it. I think his buddies got him out of it. And I worry that if we put him up, that some terrible Democratic candidate, like what's her name from Dallas, I can't even think of right now, would get in. That would be just terrible.

[Eric Benson]

I'm kind of at a point with a lot of Republican people. If you've been there for a while and you haven't done what you said you were gonna do, you've had enough time. And so I've kind of like, ready

[Sarah Longwell]

for people to move on, Especially if you're in your mid-70s, I have to take some time to actually dive in and kind of see who else I would vote for. But as far as now, I'm going to be voting for Ted Cruz.

[Eric Benson]

Voting for Ted Cruz. Okay, so Ted Cruz is not actually on the ballot this year. So I think that quote shows you the level of attention some voters are paying to these primaries. So, Eric, your profile's headline, because you did a recent profile on Cornyn, was the Last Ride of Big Bad John, which I appreciate because I love me some Jimmy Dean. So one thing I learned from your piece was that Cornyn has been trying for decades to butch himself up for the GOP base. Tell us about that.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, so you know, Cornyn's elected Senate in 2002, 2008, which is first reelection. He has this famous video that they play at the Texas Republican Convention, the state Republican convention, where it's to the music of Jimmy Dean's Bad John and it shows he's wearing a big hat and they've rewritten the lyrics to kind of be corny centric. You know, he came to Washington six years ago and he's our guy and blah, blah, blah, wears a 10 gallon hat. And when that ad made its way onto the Internet, it got widely mocked and he actually, I will say he's done more Big Bad John videos, so he must have not thought of it as some great misstep. But to me, I think it shows one of the central problems Cornyn has always had, which is that being a senator and saying, I go up to Washington and try to be a serious legislator doesn't work very well politically. And so he's always tried to reach for this kind of earthy texanness. And when he does, he often stumbles because it seems to be not. I mean, he says he's a duck hunter. I'm sure he is. I'm sure he goes out, but he struggles to come across as a man of the people, I would say.

[Eric Benson]

I think the kids would call it cringe.

[Sarah Longwell]

Sure would.

[Eric Benson]

And yeah, and I do think his inability to maybe take in that feedback and change is maybe a little bit part of his problem. And if there was one thing that these voters knew about John Cornyn or like how they saw him, it was like as a quite a mild person, I don't know that the Big Bad John vibes were radiating off of him. Let's listen. He just seems like he's just been there forever and like someone mentioned it seems like, yeah, we should have. I mean, he just seems kind of a non influential to me. Just kind of a placeholder, if you will, for I mentioned our trip to Washington. I reached out to John Cornyn's office and Ted Cruz, Ted Cruz offices did respond and even like invited me to this stuff and not a chirp from Cornyn. So he's just, he's just kind of a placeholder there. I mean he, he votes and looks nice and does his job and is professional. No complaints. Just would love more action from him.

[Sarah Longwell]

He's not the most conservative guy. Supported some gun regulations that, you know, been, you know, a little more establishment.

[Eric Benson]

I had some pretty rigid ideas at different points and I would just vote, oh, you know, Republican this person. But I started finding out that people who I thought were had a pretty strong position on something actually didn't. So him, it sounds like he, some folks say, oh, he was really backing Trump at one point and then he would vote on issues that were the opposite. And because with Trump's prior administration, the 2016, he had so many people who were not allies with him that really worked against him, fought against him on every level. And it just made me really kind of reconsider.

[Sarah Longwell]

I would say that John Cornyn is just not cooperating enough. I think he's a Rhino, frankly. And what I want is a replacement for him. And while other candidates may indeed be better than Ken Paxton, I think logically what we need to do is vote for whoever can win that can actually probably do a decent job. I've heard over the last year or two that foreign is a Rhino, and no one has specifically pointed out particular vote that he's gone against the Trump administration this time or, you know, four years or five years ago. And I wonder, because his personality is such a. Like, he has a little brother personality where he just hangs on, he's a hanger on. And I think those kind of personalities are easy to bulldoze. Cornyn's been in there, I think, three terms now. And I guess one of my problems with him is that, you know, being one of the two senators from probably the. In anyone's short list is one of the top five most important states in America. I just think it needs to be a really important figure. And I just don't know really anything that Cornyn has really accomplished while being Senator in that position, whereas I feel Ted Cruz has. And whether you like him or not, I mean, he is. He's a powerful figure.

[Eric Benson]

So one thing you wrote is that Cornyn would give an enthusiastic paragraph about working to incentivize semiconductor manufacturing in the United States. And so given how these voters are talking about him, which is like, this guy's kind of a follower. He's a Rhino. He doesn't support Trump. How is he pitching himself to the Republican base this time around? Like, I know he's trying to kind of butch himself up, but is he aware of how far apart his demeanor is from the GOP base of now?

[Sarah Longwell]

Yes, I think he is. I think he is. I think, unfortunately, he's. He's running a campaign where he has to run away from all of his strengths, which is why this has been a very tough campaign. If John Cornyn were to run a campaign on his strengths, he would cite some of the things that I do in my piece. He would say, go to the center for Legislative Effectiveness and ask them how I am. Well, I pass 10 times as many laws as any other. You know, as the average Republican senator, I've been Senate Republican Whip. I've raised $400 million for my party. I've had every leadership position in the Senate other than being leader. And if three senators had changed their vote last in December of 2024, I would have been Senate Majority leader, too. And I've put through all of these laws and I've made this country work better and I've gotten more money for Texas. But instead, that line doesn't appeal to people who think that essentially the federal government is outside of what Donald Trump says is corrupt and venal and not working for them. And so he can't talk about his accomplishments as a US Senator, and instead he has to kind of do a bit of a race to the bottom with the other candidates. So he has to air anti Sharia law advertisements. He has to say that Wesley Hunt and Ken Paxton aren't real conservatives. These aren't things that John Cornyn is spending a lot of time saying himself. But this is what campaign messaging that's going out is. And so they are playing to a Republican base that does not want to hear the things that John Cornyn, I think, probably really does want to tell them about why they should reelect him.

[Eric Benson]

Is Sharia law coming to Texas doesn't

[Sarah Longwell]

seem that way to me, but it does, I think, seem that way to a lot of Texans.

[Eric Benson]

Where did they get that idea?

[Sarah Longwell]

You know, 10 years ago this was also a concern. This is something that gets brought back up and, you know, I think it taps into fears people have about our changing country.

[Eric Benson]

I have heard this in lots of focus groups. Like Sharia law does sort of pop up and around from time to time, but even before when it was coming up, it was sort of directly linked to there being specific Muslim communities that were like densely populated in certain places. Like this happened in Michigan. But like, is that happening in Texas? Is it rooted in anything or is it.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yes, there are. I think there's been a whole controversy over a development in Irving, which is not far from here in Dallas, a kind of Muslim cultural development that Ken Paxton has sued, I think multiple times at this point. So there's a not insignificant Muslim population in Texas, particularly in the Dallas and Houston areas. So it's not that there are no Muslims. I'm not sure where, how you get from there being a Muslim immigrant community that is largely professionals, you know, is kind of a well educated community here, how you get from that to fears of Sharia law.

[Eric Benson]

But, well, you know, you got to run ads about something, I guess. And God forbid it be about affordability and other things. This show is sponsored by Tempo Meals. During the week, my schedule is nonstop meetings, late nights, working on a secret project, and healthy eating is usually the first thing to slip. Tempo keeps me grounded with real meals that I can heat in two minutes, so I don't default to snacks. Or takeout, Tempo delivers fresh, chef crafted, dietitian approved meals right to your door. Each meal is perfectly portioned for lunch or dinner and is ready in just two minutes. That means real food real fast. The salmon dishes are a hit with my staff who are trying to cram themselves full of Omega threes. Everyone's getting in shape for the 2026 elections with 20 new recipes every week. Made from nutrient rich ingredients, Tempo keeps things exciting and helps you stay consistent with healthy habits. Even busy athletes like Maria Sharapova swear by Tempo for balanced meals that help them stay on top of their wellness goals. For a limited time, Tempo is offering my listeners 60% off your first box. Go to tempomeals.com the Focus Group that's tempomeals.com the Focus group for 60% off your first box tempomeals.com the Focus Groul man, that's a good deal. Rules and restrictions may apply, but I want to talk about Ken Paxton because if Cornyn is the mild mannered, serious legislator that people do not appreciate because they no longer appreciate people who try to do serious legislation. Ken Paxton, although he is the sitting attorney general of Texas, he's about as scandal plagued as anybody else in the gop. I haven't followed it like so, so closely, but lots of like adultery and like and for a guy who I think it's like a real hypocrisy kind of thing, like a very Christian, helds himself out to be pro family and then has all these kind of skeletons in his closet, but also a lot of corruption, was already indicted by his colleagues but then was let off the hook as that one guy was saying. As I look at what's happening to the Republican Party, he is somebody who sort of stands out as a person who can thrive to the extent that Cornyn's now liabilities used to be pluses. Things that used to be liabilities like these scandals are now things that actually help Ken Paxton thrive. So let's listen to how the voters talk about him.

[Sarah Longwell]

I think Ken Paxton is a slimy snake and I will not vote for him. If our political purity test is didn't cheat on your wife. But most we all support Trump. That's going to be a tough position to defend.

[Eric Benson]

I feel I'm pretty confident that I'll

[Sarah Longwell]

vote for John Cornyn.

[Eric Benson]

Ken Paxton has a long history of

[Sarah Longwell]

integrity issues and that concerns me because when push comes to shove, I want

[Eric Benson]

to be able to trust the person that's in office. I have just started looking into, you know, the voting because early voting's starting and I'm normally in the early voting. Me and my mother in law actually decide together who we're going to vote for because me, my husband and my mother in law all go vote together. And we had initially decided on Ken Paxton because just what we've seen about him and what he wants to do, but I honestly did not know about these, I guess, scandals that he has around him.

[Sarah Longwell]

I'm pretty convinced I'm going to vote for Ken Paxton. I understand what was saying, but, you know, that's the nature of all politics. All politicians really. They're going to tell you what you want to hear, so you'll vote for them and then proceed to do whatever they want to in the first place once they get into office. Now, my rationale for Ken Paxton is, you know, off and on I've kept track of what he's doing so far in his current position.

[Eric Benson]

If I was voting on deacons for our church, definitely Ken Paxton wouldn't be part of it, would not have my vote. But my understanding, I don't remember because it's been about a year ago, his political trials were kind of brought to an end. I thought a conclusion and I thought he took some sort of a plea that just kind of settled things because they couldn't prove whatever the graft or whatever it was. I'm not voting for his pious character. I would be voting for whether politically I thought he would represent us. And that sounds kind of a sad state of affairs. I'm a Christian and I absolutely believe that we are responsible for our lives and whether we sin or not. But I think if we looked at any place in the Senate and who's going with who, that's just not my business.

[Sarah Longwell]

There are plenty of good, solid Republican red folks out there, politicians, they don't come with as much as baggage as, as a Paxton. So until someone shows me something that Cornyn has said or done that has been, you know, anti Republican, anti conservative, I think I'm going to stick with him.

[Eric Benson]

I've also seen where Ken Paxton has some issues with integrity lawsuits and, you know, maybe not being right with his wife and, you know, having extramarital things right now, I honestly don't know. I mean, he was convicted, he had an affair and there was this money embezzlement. I mean, there's been like, I don't even know how he's allowed to run. I don't disagree with his politics at all. In fact, I like his politics. But he has had such missteps in his personal integrity that make it hard for me, even though I agree with him politically, for me to pick him because he's, you know, there's just. It was in our local news media and he actually went to my church, where I go and to church. And so I'm pretty familiar with a lot of the, you know, the details that it's hard to get past that personal indiscretion, but be the face of public integrity. So I do worry about that a little bit. I think that he is somebody who will do what he says he's gonna do. But some of the things like the scandals concern me a little bit. And he's been around also and had his time.

[Sarah Longwell]

So.

[Eric Benson]

One of the best vignettes in your piece was when John Cornyn got brutally booed at the Texas GOP convention as he was pushing the Safer Communities Act. And the crowd there went crazy for Ken Paxton as soon as Cornyn left the stage. I don't know if I think that they're shy Paxton voters, but like people are aware that he has baggage, but they also like his politics better. And I know from listening to voters this long that like in a group of people, they will pay homage or lip service to the fact that the person is not a good person. Exactly. But you can tell that this is the guy that they want. Like I said before, I know that he is. He's has like these adultery things and he was overwhelmingly impeached by a Republican state House, but then not removed by the Senate. You said in your piece he's both scandal plagued but kind of boring as well, which I think is interesting. Can you just talk more about what these scandals are? Besides, I think people understand the adultery piece, but how has he turned all of his personal sort of personal baggage and legal troubles into an asset in this Republican primary?

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, I mean, with all due respect to Angela Paxton, I mean, the adultery, I think is the least of the issues here. So Ken Paxton gets into office, or before he gets him, and he's running for attorney general, the first of the sort of scandals, breaks, which is that when he was a lawyer. So state representative is a part time job in Texas. So back when Ken Paxton was the state representative representing McKinney in the Dallas suburbs, he was also a private lawyer and he had steered some of his clients toward an investment firm. She turned out to be an investment firm that would be accused of fraud and was not a great place to probably have your money. At least it wasn't for a few of these people. And these people, what they said is that they thought Ken Paxton was just doing this out of a kind of professional responsibility. He was actually working for the firm. He was taking a 30% cut of their asset management fees. So he got into trouble for this. He then got into more trouble for this when it turned out this behavior hadn't been isolated to that one company, but there'd been other investments he'd been kind of steering people toward without the proper disclosures. And that was when Ken Paxton got into office in 2015, after he was sworn in. I remember there was kind of widespread belief that Ken Paxton was done, that he was going to resign. He was going to be forced to resign fairly quickly. Republicans on the state level were not coming to Ken Paxton's defense. He was really kind of out there on his own. But he gave the conservative base and has for his entire time what they want, which is he has used the Attorney General's office to basically telegraph his values and the values of what would become MAGA Republicans.

[Eric Benson]

And.

[Sarah Longwell]

And he does that through lawsuits. The lawsuits don't always and often don't go anywhere, but when you sue someone, it's a headline. When the case resolves down the line, you know, five years later in court, no one's really cares about that or writes about it. So he's done things during this campaign, he's done things like not long after Charlie Kirk's killing, Paxton put out a press release saying that he, with the Attorney General's Office of Texas, was going to be doing an undercover operation in left wing terrorist cells across the state. Now, the Attorney General's Office of Texas does not have a very large law enforcement purview. The Department of Public Safety, which is our state police, that's separate from the Attorney General's office. And Ken Paxton certainly isn't managing counterterrorism at the FBI. And so what's happened to that operation? Well, probably nothing, because, you know, and I talked to people who were very involved in law enforcement at the Attorney General's office and had been, and they said, this is not what we do. But when I went to a Ken Paxton rally, the night that he announced that, people were really excited, or at least a few of them were, wow, this is the kind of thing that Ken Paxton does for Texas. So he has had these financial scandals. He was impeached for his scandal. That was basically that he had on behalf of a Austin real estate developer who himself would be indicted and end up pleading guilty to felonies. He essentially used the Attorney General's office to do this guy favors and Paxton's own attorneys who were very conservative, religious conservatives, people who were really the second wave of Paxton deputies, because the first wave was people like Chip Roy, who's now running for attorney general in Texas and has a long political history. They left pretty quickly when Ken Paxton came in. So this was a group of people that he essentially said, you're the people who are part of my conservative program. And those people went to the FBI and said, this guy is doing things he shouldn't be doing. And that's what led to the impeachment by a Republican House. He didn't get convicted in the Senate, but he has done a very good job at wrapping himself. If there is a cause that is burbling up somewhere in the Republican base, Ken Paxton will jump on it. As soon as they had that Robert Kennedy and Trump had that press conference about Tylenol, Ken Paxton sued the makers of Tylenol. He's like, he is on point. He is giving people what they want. Lets do the 60 second savings challenge step 1 download Rocket Money step 2 link your accounts and see every subscription you're paying for. Tap one you don't use and cancel it. That's money back every month. Create a financial goal $50 every paycheck. Or let the app automatically move small amounts of cash when you can afford it. In a week, you'll forget you set it up. In a month, you'll see real dollars piling up. In a year, you'll be shocked at how much money you've saved. Bonus Challenge Upload an Internet or phone bill and let Rocket Money try to lower it. You only pay if they find you savings. On average, Rocket Money members can save up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features. Users love the app with over 186,000 five star ratings. Make saving money the resolution you actually keep. Start the 60 second savings [e-mail] cancel. That's rocketmoney.com cancel rocketmoney.com cancel

[Eric Benson]

when you're

[Sarah Longwell]

a pro, you got to do a

[Eric Benson]

little bit of everything. A little,

[Sarah Longwell]

a little, and even a little. And it helps to have something that works as hard as you do. That's why Valspar has durable, high coverage

[Eric Benson]

paint for every job.

[Sarah Longwell]

Every time made.

[Eric Benson]

For more Valspar pros, head to Lowe's today and talk to a pro rep about saving time and money on your

[Sarah Longwell]

next job with Valspar.

[Eric Benson]

Signature paint exclusions apply. See valsparpro.com for details. Actually, the story you just told is a pretty good microcosm of the clash between kind of the old Republican Party that for whatever you thought about it, was like, I'm not going to go near this corrupt stuff. Like, I'm out of here to the new Republican Party, which is like, give me the corrupt stuff. Like, as long as it's done in service of maga, as long as it's being used efficiently against our enemies, Like, I'm down and I'm in. And this is where, like, the scandals of Ken Paxton and somebody even said it in the group, they're like, well, we all love Trump, right? So the fidelity to the wife, like, who cares? I mean, and I'll tell you what, Donald Trump has made any of that a real dead letter. Like, no one cares anymore. Because they understand that voting for Donald Trump meant that this part of sort of the character counts narrative, anything about morality, all that stuff was over and now. And this is a pretty familiar pattern too, which is it goes from like, this thing was bad to, hey, what about, you know, Bill Clinton? And so. And so to, no, this vice is good, actually. Which is what Ken Paxton really leans into is, no, Donald Trump is corrupt in this exact same way. I will be corrupt in this way. And. And the interesting thing about Cornyn getting booed is that people really do view doing the normal job of a politician as anathema to the job they want them to do. Now, what do you make of that in terms of the story that it tells about just where our politics is headed?

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, big sigh.

[Eric Benson]

I know that's a bummer of a question.

[Sarah Longwell]

No, I mean, it's interesting thinking about how anyone ever evaluated a US Senator, how voters who are not super plugged into the goings on of Congress evaluated a U.S. senator. Because you've heard everyone in your focus group, I don't think there's a single person who, when they were talking about John Cornyn or Ted Cruz, cited a single piece of legislation. There was a. It was an idea of the guns stuff, which really, absent Cornyn's leadership role in the bipartisan Safer Communities Act, I think he would have been harder to primary. Now, people have talked about primary Cornyn from the right, basically, since Cornyn's been in office. So it's not as if John Cornyn was beloved by the Tea Party to MAGA wing of the party always and just did this gun thing and then they all turned on him. It's always been a problem. But, yeah, how do you evaluate it? And when people said John Cornyn isn't powerful in the focus group. He's just kind of there. Ted Cruz is powerful. I think what they mean is Ted Cruz is better at media, that Ted Cruz is better at getting.

[Eric Benson]

He's got a podcast.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah. You know, John Cornyn is not as good as Ted Cruz at the Internet. He's not as good as Ted Cruz at getting up in sound bites. And so I think that's kind of what people are looking for. They're looking for, as you've said, you know, a fighter. And it is hard for John Cornyn to convince people that he's a fighter. And he actually admits that he has the temperament of a lawyer and a judge. When I've talked with him, I don't look at my opponents as my enemies. Well, boy, that's not such a 2026 message that's going to grab the political base. My opponents are not enemies. They deserve respect. I mean, that's the kind of thing people said 40 years ago and it maybe played well, but it doesn't play so well now.

[Eric Benson]

Oh, they could have said it 16 years ago and it might have done okay. It really is the last decade that we've all decided. I mean, because the voters do. I mean, compromise is a dirty word now, as opposed to this is actually when sometimes when people are like, what's the worst thing that you've learned from the focus groups I often cite it is that people want outcomes from government. They want it to deliver things. Those are things. The mechanism by which those things are delivered is compromise. And yet they do not want compromise. They see compromise as weakness. And in a way that you would have not that long ago, I think, said, well, I'm somebody who reaches across the aisle. I know how to work to get things done. Voters reject that now as a just way of doing politics, which means there's no way to get them the things that they want delivered by the government without just ignoring of the other side or running over of the other side. Sort of a like what Trump is doing. Right. Which is to basically say Congress doesn't exist, to throw away the whole entire system of checks and balances. And so I find that to be one of the most perplexing because there's not an incentive structure for compromise if the voters don't want it and if they don't see that as the mechanism by which they are delivered the things that they want. I didn't realize I was wasting $415 a month until I downloaded Rocket Money. I thought I had my finances under control until the app laid out all my spending and categorized it for me. Takeout shopping and unused subscriptions were quietly draining my account, and as a result, my savings took a backseat. But Rocket Money doesn't just tell you what you're wasting money on, it takes action to save you money. First, the app looks at your income and monthly expenses and calculates how much you can safely spend each day to stay under budget. Rocket Money also fines and cancels unwanted subscriptions for you, and even negotiates better rates on your bills so you have more money in your pocket. On average, Rocket Money members can save up to $740 a year when using all the app's premium features. Users love the app with over 186,000 five star ratings. It's time to simplify your finances and take control of your Money. Go to RocketMoney.com Cancel to get started. That's RocketMoney.com Cancel RocketMoney.com Cancel Weight Watchers now offers access to affordable GLP once it works for members like I'm Haley and I've lost 100 pounds. Weight Watchers has everything I need from weight loss medications to nutrition support and help with my side effects. It's all in one place. Weight Watchers handles the insurance for you and offers affordable cash pay options. With our program, our members are losing more weight with expert nutrition and side effects support.

[Sarah Longwell]

I'm Mike and I've lost 135 pounds. Weight Watchers prescribing GLP1 medications. It's been life changing.

[Eric Benson]

I'm Sharia and I lost 80 pounds on Weight Watchers. I realized that it would take more than a prescription to lose weight and feel good on a GLP1. Better results expert Support Lose more weight,

[Sarah Longwell]

make it Last I can't imagine doing a GLP1 without Weight Watchers.

[Eric Benson]

Get started for as low as $25 at weightwatchers.com glp1 for over 60 years, we've helped millions of members find what works for them. Now it's your turn. Weight Watchers Watch it work. The wild card in this race is this Congressman Wesley Hunt. He's a younger black congressman from the Houston suburbs, and according to the polling average, at the moment, he looks like the least likely of these three candidates to make it to the runoff. But there's actually polling that shows that if he does, he might be the favorite over either Cornyn or Paxton. This is an interesting function of a runoff with three candidates where if those two have the most name id, but if he were to sneak in somewhere suddenly, he'd be very competitive because the other two are polarizing in these various ways we've just heard. So let's listen to how these voters talk about Hunt. I saw something the other day about Wesley Hunt. I thought he was just, you know, pro patriotic and all these, but they were saying he voted at different times with AOC and that to be careful. So you never know, you know, with smear campaigns what's true or not.

[Sarah Longwell]

I'm not too terribly concerned if you

[Eric Benson]

voted on some of the same issues

[Sarah Longwell]

as AOC or some other people, because there's a lot that gets voted that gets 75, 80, 90 plus percent of

[Eric Benson]

the vote in the House.

[Sarah Longwell]

I think that's more of a talking

[Eric Benson]

point to get people to think that

[Sarah Longwell]

they're on the same side.

[Eric Benson]

I heard him talking before. The hearing was on id. I guess it was national id, voter id. And he was just so down to earth. He pulled out six of his IDs and says, don't tell me that as a black person that I can't get an id. And he pulled out his Texas Right to Carry card, and he. He pulled out his Texas driver's license and a passport and several other documents. And just hearing him talk in that forum just made me think he's got right conservative values and something as simple as an ID before you vote. I heard him speak. I think he was in Amarillo. All I remember is I think he was talking to a church there, and I thought, oh, that's nice. He's talking to a church, which, you know, is neither here nor there. But I liked the appearance of his values. They seemed conservative to me. Now, Wesley Hunt, the only thing that's really holding me back on him is he did not vote for Donald Trump. And so that bothers me about Wesley Hunt. I'm kind of hard to please, though, but. But he didn't vote for Trump, so that makes me wonder, like, is he really aligned? I was actually interested in Wesley Hunt because I had read where Trump was backing him. However, over the last two weeks, I've seen a lot of information where Wesley Hunt didn't show up to vote for 90% of the votes. I have a real problem with that because I want someone that's going to go in there and work, and if you're not showing up for the votes, then it don't matter. You're not doing your job. So you interviewed Wesley Hunt recently, and he said he thinks it's fine if Ken Paxton is a U.S. senator. He's not worried about being a spoiler for Cornyn, because that's, I think, some of the charge against him. How has he handled attacking Paxton differently than Cornyn has, and how has he morphed since he got into politics in the 2020 cycle? Does he have an answer to, like, not voting for Trump or missing all the votes? Tell us about him.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, so he's a Houston area congressman, ran in 2020 and lost. And then his district was kind of redrawn. They sort of drew a district that was quite favorable for Wesley Hunt. He was someone I had heard about for a few years at that point, someone who I think at the time was viewed as a more moderate Republican. The person I heard about him from was former Congressman Will Hurd, who was definitely a more moderate Republican and ran for president, didn't make much headway there and is not in politics anymore, at least not in Congress. But once Wesley Hunt got in office, I think he saw the way or before when he ran in 2022, he saw the way the wind was blowing. Whether it's been an eye opening for him philosophically or he's been very smart politically, but he has really lashed himself to Trump. And that's, I think, as far as I understand it, that's the campaign. The campaign is that he's not Ken Paxton or John Cornyn, and he's a MAGA true believer. And there is a small chance that that's actually going to be enough. I think a lot of people were upset when he got into the race, not the least of which were Texas Republican donors who at that point said, man, we're not only going to have to pay for a primary, we're going to have to pay for a runoff now, too. We had one race to fund, and now we got two. So I know that there was some upset there, but I thought it was a pretty smart political move on his part, assuming that his dream was not to be in the United States House of Representatives for the next 30 years because he will lose his seat if he doesn't get this. But as you've heard in the focus group, there are not that many people who support John Cornyn or Ken Paxton without reservation.

[Eric Benson]

Right.

[Sarah Longwell]

People who support Ken Paxton say he's a fighter. I like that. And maybe it's not all true, but there aren't that many people who I've spoken with, at least, who say everything about Ken Paxton is a total lie. He's the most persecuted against person in the world. Ken Paxton almost doesn't say that. He'll kind of allude to some personal issues he's had. And then John Cornyn. Yeah, even people who support him in the Republican primary, there's not a lot of full throated, passionate support of John Cornyn, which is a problem John Cornyn's always had. There are not that many passionate John Cornyn supporters because he himself does not issue forth a lot of passion. And so, yeah, Hunt getting into the race, if he makes it. Yeah. The polling's been way, way all over the place with regard to Hunt. Boy, if you look on poly market, the Wesley Hunt odds are either someone's manipulating the market and making a lot of money, or people are really changing their minds quickly because his odds fluctuate quite a lot. So he will probably not make it because it's an uphill battle and he has less money and he has less name recognition. But I think he's more of a real threat than probably either campaign gave him at the beginning.

[Eric Benson]

So tell me where you think this is all headed now. Like you've heard with these voters, and you got to watch. You know, you watched all the groups that we did in full. Where do you think this is gonna go? You think it's gonna go to a runoff between Paxton and Cornyn and then what happens? Or do you think it'll go to a runoff between those two?

[Sarah Longwell]

It'll definitely go to a runoff. There's no way. It's not gonna go to a runoff. Yeah, there's just. It's impossible. Early voting started today, so we're in early voting territory. Ken Paxton is going to make the runoff. I don't think there's any way he's not going to make the runoff if Ken Paxton makes the runoff against Cornyn. Recent Texas history shows that in Republican primaries, when there's a runoff, the more activist, approved. I'm not even going to say more conservative, but whatever. The more kind of activist, approved candidate wins because those are the voters who are more passionate. They're going to show up. So if it comes down to Paxton versus Cornyn, absent some wild game changer, the consensus is that Paxton would win and probably win by a lot if Hunt gets in. I think it's anybody's guess.

[Eric Benson]

Yeah, that's interesting. I love a wild card. Five years ago, I was paying $65 a month for my subscriptions. Today, those Same subscriptions cost $111, and I don't even use half of them anymore. That's why now I use rocket money to manage my subscriptions for me. The app gives you a list of all of your subscriptions and reminds you of upcoming payments so you're not hit with any surprise charges. On top of that, it also sends you alerts when subscription prices go up, so you always know the price you're paying. If you decide you no longer want a subscription, you can cancel it right from the app. No customer service needed. And the best part is Rocket Money even reaches out and tries to get you refunded for some of the you lost. On average, people that cancel their subscriptions with rocket money save $378 a year. And overall, Rocket Money has saved its members $880 million in canceled subscriptions. Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Go to RocketMoney.com Cancel to get started. That's RocketMoney.com Cancel RocketMoney.com Cancel Quieres Mejor Internet Cox Internet de tresintas megas tine las velos. Let me ask you this. I see a lot of comments to this effect. A lot of people ask me this when I talk to them. They're sort of just like I don't. And you heard it in the groups. A lot of Christians, a lot of Christians in Texas, a lot of Christians in the Republican Party. And people do not understand how sort of the self avowed Christians can vote for a guy like Ken Paxton. And the thing about Ken Paxton is it's not to your point. It's not. A lot of times the very Christian are also kind of the activist base of the Republican Party. There's a decent overlap and people always wonder how is it possible that people whose Christianity is so central to who they are find themselves drawn to candidates like Donald Trump and Ken Paxton. And since you're there in Texas, what do you think?

[Sarah Longwell]

I think there's a big difference between Donald Trump and Ken Paxton in this regard, which is Ken Paxton himself is an evangelical Christian who talks about God and Jesus on the stump all the time. And so voters who are even conservative evangelical voters, Ken Paxton knows how to speak that language and he speaks it fluently. I went to a Paxton event, I went to a Cornyn event and the Paxton event was at a Turning Point USA event. So it was kind of a Christian event. So it's, it's not surprising that he would talk, he would do more Bible talk, but that's what he did. He talked about Jesus, he talked about Charlie Kirk and compared his life and death to the life and death of Jesus. He talked about himself and compared his political struggles to those of Joseph in the Old Testament and you know, being turned on by his brothers and then coming to sit in their judgment. John Cornyn doesn't do that. I haven't heard John Cornyn speak at a church, but I heard John Cornyn speak at an event where there was a prayer before John Cornyn spoke, and he doesn't speak that language. Is there hypocrisy in someone who wraps themselves in the church, in the Bible, who then is facing their second allegation of infidelity, who's being divorced by their wife for quote, unquote, biblical reasons, you know, who has been involved in a lot of business dealings that have, you know, that he's at this point kind of settled and that that person on the focus group was right. All of the cases against Ken Paxton have been resolved. He didn't go to jail for any of them. He was not convicted of wrongdoing. But there's a long history here. But he speaks that language. So I think people, even if they don't like the actions, they hear the words that he's saying, the way he's wrapping himself in a kind of martyrdom, and they can get behind that.

[Eric Benson]

Yeah, I think that is hard for people to understand sometimes how much, you know, when churches sort of make a King David defense around Trump, that it rolls off like sort of non Christians or people who are not sort of steeped in that language don't really notice it. But it is a strong signifier to Christians that Donald Trump is a biblical figure of his own and how much the language matters because it becomes sort of in group, out group language, and the individual acts sort of matter less than being in the in group to begin with. It's interesting to me that Trump declined to endorse. And do you think if it goes to a runoff, a, he will B, do you think if he did, it would decide who was elected in Texas?

[Sarah Longwell]

I think if Trump had endorsed six to eight months ago, it would have been decisive. I don't know what would happen if Trump endorsed. Now, the way that I think about it is I don't think Trump is going to endorse, I guess, unless he endorsed Wesley Hunt. So basically, if Trump were to endorse Cornyn and Cornyn were to lose to Paxton, which would be very, very possible, Donald Trump would look weak, and Donald Trump doesn't want to look weak.

[Eric Benson]

Right.

[Sarah Longwell]

If Donald Trump endorsed Ken Paxton, Ken Paxton won, and then somehow Ken Paxton lost to James Talarico in the general election, Trump would look stupid, and Trump doesn't want to look stupid. I think Trump would probably rather look Stupid than weak. But I think he would rather not endorse and avoid both of those things. So I would bet he'll let it settle and then he'll endorse whoever makes it out of the primary process.

[Eric Benson]

Yeah, we are going to do a whole separate episode on the Democratic primary between James Talrico and Jasmine Crockett. But before we do that, I guess I'm just. Since you invoked his name, what do you make of the Democratic primary and what do you think is going to happen there?

[Sarah Longwell]

You know, it seems so wrapped up in the larger conversation Democrats have been having nationally about what they represent and whether the best way to oppose Donald Trump and take back power is to find kind of electable centrist candidates or whether it's to fire up the base. I guess this has been a discussion for a long time, but I'm hearing a lot of it now. And what I think has been interesting is there have been voices in this election on the left who have been kind of endorsing James Talarico with the rationale he could get elected and it's better we get people elected. So you had that blow up with the comedian Bowen Yang and his podcast where they said, don't give your money to Jasmine Crockett. I don't know if those guys would have been sort of tacitly endorsing James Talarico four years ago. I think they probably wouldn't have been, especially in the summer of 2020. I think there would have been a lot more pressure on them to endorse the more left candidate. But, hey, Jasmine Crockett was up in the last poll by a significant margin. The polls again have been all over. I think these primaries, state primaries are just really hard to. To get a representative group for.

[Eric Benson]

I think that's true. I actually, I think the polling in these primaries is really tough. I do think the head to heads have been pretty interesting. And I guess I'll probably use this as my last question because it kind of brings us back to the Republicans. Right. The electability question, a big one right now on both sides. Right. The reason that I think people are really giving Tal Rico a look, even though I think Jasmine Crockett is probably spiritually where a lot of people want to be right now is they think, hey, man, I saw a bunch of polling that shows that James Talrico could beat Ken Paxton in a general election. And I am one of those people who thinks if there is a chance, if we are in a year where there is any chance that a Democrat could get elected in Texas. That James Taurico is a much better bet for that against Ken Paxton than Jasmine Crockett. In part because of the conversation we were just having around some of the Christian conversation. Not that I think a lot of these fervent sort of Christian MAGA overlapping types go to Tao Rico. But I do think, and you did hear a little bit of this in the groups, people sometimes underestimate how much the Republicans desperately want Jasmine Crockett. Not just because they think they can beat her, but also because they think it turns out their people in a way that Tao Rico might just leave some of the people who are like, eh, I'm just not as fired up about it to go, you know, vote against a black woman who has frequently gone after Donald Trump or Governor Abbott for that matter. Tao Rico just doesn't bring some of that same baggage. Do you think, though, that this could be a year that a Democrat could win in Texas if sort of the stars aligned and it was against Ken Paxton with his baggage, with sort of the swingier voters in Texas?

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, I mean, never say never. And certainly the scenario you could see would be that the Talarico Paxton would seem the most plausible way for the Democrats to take that seat. I mean, one thing that's interesting is when I talk to kind of national level Republicans, the thing that freaks them out about Ken Paxton winning the primary is not so much Senator Ken Paxton, it's this would become a very competitive race and we would have to spend so much money on it and we would still probably win. But spending that much money would siphon off money from Alaska and Maine and North Carolina and then we might lose those races. And so there's this kind of tactical game and tactical concern, and it's more how they see that race being quite competitive if Paxton were to win, and I think probably if Talarico were to win too. I was talking to a lot of these people actually before Jasmine Crockett got in the race because she got in on the last day possible.

[Eric Benson]

Yes. To the great frustration of many Democrats and to the glee of many Republicans who were helping to bolster her jumping in. Okay, Eric Benson, thank you so much for joining us. And thanks to all of you for listening to another episode of the focus group podcast. We're going to be back next week, but in the meantime, remember to rate and review us on Apple podcasts, subscribe to The Bulwark on YouTube and become a Bull Work plus member at the Bulwark.com we will see you guys next week. Weight Watchers now offers access to affordable GLP1s. It works for members like I'm Haley and I've lost 100 pounds. Weight Watchers has everything I need from weight loss medications to nutrition support and help with my side effects. It's all in one place. Weight Watchers handles the insurance for you and offers affordable cash pay options. With our program, our members are losing more weight with expert nutrition and side effects support.

[Sarah Longwell]

I'm Mike and I've lost 135 pounds. Weight Watchers prescribing GLP1 medications. It's been life changing.

[Eric Benson]

I'm Sharia and I lost 80 pounds on Weight Watchers. I realized that it would take more than a prescription to lose weight and feel good on a GLP1. Better results, expert support, lose more weight, make it last.

[Sarah Longwell]

I can't imagine doing a GLP without Weight Watchers.

[Eric Benson]

Get started for as low as $25 at weightwatchers.com glp1 for over 60 years we've helped millions of members find what works for them. Now it's your turn. Weight Watchers watch it work.

[Sarah Longwell]

If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted

[Eric Benson]

partner makes all the difference.

[Sarah Longwell]

That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need

[Eric Benson]

at the start of their shift and

[Sarah Longwell]

you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. The greatest to ever play the game.

[Eric Benson]

Return to finish what they started. Welcome to Survivor field.

[Sarah Longwell]

I wanted one more shot to play the game that I fell in love with 25 years ago.

[Eric Benson]

I want to win against the best of the best.

[Sarah Longwell]

I chickened out at the final tribal.

[Eric Benson]

Season 50 it's an honor.

[Sarah Longwell]

Light your torch.

[Eric Benson]

I've got some unfinished business.

[Sarah Longwell]

Be part of history.

[Eric Benson]

I have more to play for this

[Sarah Longwell]

time bigger than ever. Survivor 50 new milestone season begins CBS Wednesday at 8, 7 Central.