Rotimi Adioye (2:50)

You know, at the end of the day, I think a lot of people agree on this and we know this is happening. We have a crisis in America with young people. So many young people feel left out of the American dream. And what I hope to articulate in this essay is that the Democrats, and even outside of the Democrats, really the federal government, Democrats and Republican need a housing plan focused on young people. And the two biggest obstacles to housing for young people are the lack of supply being built in this country, aka. Plainly put, we're not building enough housing, and also the huge down payment cost that comes with buying a house. You know, I bet if you folks listening talk to their parents and they asked them about what their experience was like buying a house, they mentioned that they had to put up a big down payment. That's still something that happens today. And even if we do build more housing and lower the supply, that large down payment amount of 30,000, 40,000 is a huge amount that so many young people have, can't have, despite the fact that they're working so hard and putting so many hours at their job. So What House by 30 says this is if you live in locality or state that is building more housing, actually addressing one of the root causes of the housing supply crisis, which is we have really terrible zoning laws that are getting in the way of housing, then your state should be eligible for federal money, where basically if you've been working for 10 years, you can receive up to 5,000 per year for a mortgage down payment. And I think what this does is it really rewards people that have been working so hard and allows them to have a part in the American dream and also encourages states and localities to, to ultimately build more housing because we can't fix the housing crisis in this country if we don't build more.

Rachel Janfaza (4:35)

So you're a Democrat and you're quick to point out in the piece, which I appreciate that a lot of young people have a fraught relationship with Democrats promising things and just the Democratic Party more broadly right now. How do you see this type of a campaign promise remedying things, if at all? And a campaign promise is all well and good, but how do you see that actually playing out in practice if there is to be, you know, a next Democratic administration?

Rotimi Adioye (5:03)

Well, I think there are kind of two ways to look at this. I think first, as you mentioned, a lot of young people have felt left out of the Democrats politics for a long time. I think it's just because the Democrats have always assumed that young people are going to show up and vote for them. They've always figured that since they've been on the side of progress, that young people would recognize that. But I think Democrats have forgotten that like every other group of voters, they want to be spoken to and they want to hear plans directed towards them. And you know, during the Harris campaign, we saw a lot of plans that were directed at young people. But I think the issue with those plans is they weren't turned into concrete promises. And promises are a core part of successful American politics. For example, when you look at people like Barack Obama, they ran on the promise of fixing American healthcare and they ran on the promise of ending reckless Middle Eastern wars, and that led Obama to victory. Then when you look even before that at Newt Ginrich, who ran for the House during the Clinton administration, he was able to have a huge Republican majority in the House at that time because he had a clear promise where he laid out multiple promises to the American people that he was going to do certain things if he got the House majority. And that led to the Republicans winning a big majority during the Clinton administration. So I really do think promises are a core part of our politics. And I think Democrats need to actually speak young voters and tell them, we hear your pain, we understand you're working so hard and you still can't make ends meet. You still can't purchase a part of the American dream. And that's why we want to make a promise with you to actually get you a house by 30. I think the second part of this now comes with governing. And governing is much harder than campaigning, as we see with so many politicians nowadays that really run great campaigns. But when you govern and get in there, it's tough to really get things done. And so I think a big part of this, which makes it a really, I think, strong governing agenda, is that when you actually have a plan on housing that is connected to building more housing industry and a lot of businesses are going to want to get involved because they want to build more housing as well. And what we see really at the root of the housing crisis I've mentioned is a supply problem. And I want to get a little more specific here. So if you look at New York City right now, if you it takes 30 months to get permits approved for housing. This is way too long. And a lot of folks in the business industry, in the housing industry who want to build more housing can't do that because the permit process is really in the way. And thankfully, people like Mayor Zoram and Donny understand this and are trying to get the problem fixed. But I do really think that with making this a government priority, a lot of different parts of our political spectrum, whether those are Republicans that are in the housing space, that want to build more housing, the construction space, whether those are Democrats that are really focused on making sure that housing can be a promise for young people, are going to be able to come to the table and work on a deal. So I really do think a house by 30 is not just something for Democrats and it's not just something for progressives. It's something that a lot of different parts of our political spectrum can come together to make the housing promise real once again, like it was in the past for so many Americans.

Rachel Janfaza (8:13)

Yeah, I hear you on that. And I think it has to be a bipartisan thing. I've been talking to young people for years, and no matter what party they align with or where they are on the political spectrum, housing is a priority. We saw President Trump with this proposal for a 50 year mortgage, and a lot of the young conservatives I talked to and I actually wrote about this at the time were like, that is not going to work. That is not what we want. And so, yes, this is something that will resonate with young people regardless of their party affiliation. I also think to your point about promises, I think, you know, of course, promises are a part of our politics. And if you look at Trump's campaign in 2024, he promised a whole lot of things that he has not delivered on. And that's really pissing off a lot of young people. All people, really. I'm curious from your perspective because you mentioned this promise in that it is a core part of our politics. We also are dealing with a trust issue, especially when it comes to young people and their lack of trust in government, in part because they feel like politicians promise things that they don't deliver on. So how do you square that circle?

Rotimi Adioye (9:15)

Yeah, I mean, think that is a real part of governing is not delivering on promises and getting distracted. For example, Trump was elected to lower grocery prices and to make gas more affordable, and he hasn't done any of that. He's raged a reckless war in Iran that has really cost American soldiers lives and hasn't been focused on the economy. And now we're going to see, I think, the impact of that in the midterms and we're already starting to see his approval slip and fall. So I think if you're a Democrat or even a Republican and you want to get elected, you actually want to have a governing majority that can deliver and actually maintain power. Carrying out the promises that you make to people is important. You know, everyone can give nice speeches and say that they want to do all these things, but actually getting in that office and being serious and having an actual plan and carrying it out is something that voters are going to be paying attention to because voters aren't stupid. You know, they saw Trump promise all these things, make all these jokes about how Kamala wasn't doing this, wasn't doing that, and then he gets in, gets distracted, focused on foreign policy, not focused on the home front. And I do really think at the end of the day it comes down to being in office and actually being laser focused on delivering and not getting distracted or caught up in any of the other things that could distract you as an elected official.

Rachel Janfaza (10:36)

And younger people these days, of course aren't just anxious about the housing market. There's a whole slew of economic issues that are causing them to feel a lot of angst. Some of it you touched on with regard to Trump, whether it be inflation or gas prices, which obviously are related. Let's listen to some of what we heard in a recent Gen Z focus group about what is causing this economic anxiety.

Gen Z Focus Group Participant 1 (10:59)

I don't think that we, especially as Gen Zs, have much hope in the near future because I think the world economy is just, it's just tanking down, like really bad. And I want to be optimistic. But as much as stuff keeps changing for the worse, I don't know how we can be optimistic, really having to

Rotimi Adioye (11:23)

bridge a gap of entry level where

Gen Z Focus Group Participant 2 (11:25)

entry level doesn't mean some guy off

Rotimi Adioye (11:28)

the street that can learn it anymore. Entry level means years of experience where it's just not feasible.

Gen Z Focus Group Participant 2 (11:35)

There's an interesting economic principle called the K shaped recovery. I'm sure people have heard about it. Basically where the rich are getting rich, richer and the poor getting poor. Which I think is kind of what Connor was just saying. But, but also I think that I'm actually pretty bullish, I would say, on what AI is going to do for the workforce. I think there's going to be some short term pain in regards to, you know, the job market. There's going to be some layoffs probably over the, you know, the short term, less than five years But I think outside of that, I think that AI is going to create so many jobs that people will have, you know, a lot more opportunity than they even do today.

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Rachel Janfaza (13:11)

okay? Or Timmy so when you think about the macroeconomic picture for Gen Z right now, entry level jobs are dwindling, inflation is rising, energy is getting more expensive, and we hear a whole lot of young Americans who are saddled with debt that they have to pay off before even possibly really getting a leg up. There's a lot of criticism at the same time of Gen Z of like, oh, you don't actually have it any worse than prior generations or the rest of us did. But I don't think that's actually true. There are plenty of unique circumstances about being a young person in this economy. Are Democrats equipped to attack that head on?

Rotimi Adioye (13:48)

It's always hard hearing from young people that are struggling, especially the first clip that you played. And there are just so many people in this country that feel like they've done all the right things and yet they still can't make ends meet. And that, I think is the crux of it. And it gets at the real big macroeconomic trend we're seeing. So many young people were told to have stability in this country. You got to work hard in high school, and then after high school you got to go to college and work hard. And then even if that college degree is expensive, just take on a little more debt and it'll all be worth it. And what we've seen is that so many young people are taking on that debt that they thought was going to be all worth it to lead to a higher paying job. They're not getting that higher paying job. Even worse, they now have all of this debt that they are that is now sitting on their credit score and impeding them from really getting a mortgage or even taking part in really the American economy. And so it feels as if we have these rules that we've taught young people for so long, you gotta work hard, go to school, do all these things, and then these rules aren't leading to success. I think it even makes me more nervous because now we have new technology such as artificial intelligence coming in and that is going to rewrite the entire economy. And I'm not saying that. You know, when you listen to the top AI CEOs talking about artificial intelligence, they act as if this is going to be the biggest thing ever that's going to change the economy. And one could sit here and say that, you know, maybe they don't have the right message and their messaging's wrong, they're not good spokespeople, but they're speaking candidly and I think we should take that seriously. And so when we think about again, the economy and young people, what we have to remember is that we now again have a new technology that's rewriting all the rules. So how are we going to actually make sure that young people, one, can achieve the American dream, but two actually have a handbook or a set of rules they can look at, say, hey, this is how I can achieve success, is how I can start a family and feel financially secure. This is how I can actually live a life where I don't have to look at my bank account every day on the 31st, worrying that I can't afford rent?

Rachel Janfaza (16:15)

Do you think Democrats are equipped to attack that head on? Like, do you think that they have the ability to be able to talk about that in a way that addresses what young people are going through before then offering solutions like the one you're proposing.

Rotimi Adioye (16:30)

So I think the ability of Democrats to meet the moment comes down to, I think, candid quality. I think if we have candidates that are running that actually are closer to one, I think what young people are experiencing and are listening to them and can actually put forward plans, we're going to keep seeing, I think, or we will see real policy solutions addressing this. But I think if we have candidates that aren't focused on this, that continue to, I think, take what you've kind of shared as this really, I think, lazy approach to think about young people saying, oh, you know, they, they need to work harder, they need to stop buying Starbucks. They need to stop, like, spending money on avocado toast and put more in your savings so you could buy a house. We're going to see, I really think, more this appeal of strongman politics because people, when they feel like their needs aren't met, they look at politicians that go, I alone can fix it. The reason why you don't have anything is because an immigrant is getting a government benefit or because there's someone that's trans, that's getting surgery and making these lies, and that's why people fall for them, is because the other side isn't offering real solutions. So I think, I think Democrats can do it. And I think we're going to see a lot of really exciting candidates in the midterms that are coming out that are offering affordability solutions that actually want to fix this problem. And my whole thing I keep saying to Democrats, and this is why I wrote this piece, is focus on the economy, focus on making people's lives more affordable. And don't just say affordability. Have a real plan like house by 30 or something else that actually gets at the root of people's economic anxiety.

Rachel Janfaza (18:09)

Yeah, the specificity is so important because also affordability, that means something completely different for everyone. And it also is so vague and it can fall flat if it's not clear enough what a politician is actually talking about. So I agree that having, you know, those concrete ideas is necessary along those lines. And we'll get to the American dream in a bit because it's really an important catch all that I want to talk about. But you have this idea, this policy proposal. Let's say that you're writing a giant book of other policy proposals for the next Democratic administration outside of housing, what could Democrats do when it comes to lowering the cost of living or sort of that big issue of quote, unquote affordability or the cost of education?

Rotimi Adioye (18:51)

One of the other places that the Democrats really need to look at, and we saw some of this during the 2024 campaign, but I think we need to revisit it, is grocery prices. You know, it's a really complex issue given the fact that, you know, corporations are many times setting the prices of different items in the grocery store. But I do think there could be some more policy creativity on how to actually lower, you know, what they call the consumer price index. Really those, like, basket of goods that every American is getting in, putting in their fridge. So I think that's one place they really would really should focus on other than housing. I think next Is you have so many Americans right now struggling to make ends meet with health care. I think that is one of the big places where people are struggling. And if we can have some sort of public option where if you aren't working or even if you're working and your job doesn't offer you healthcare, you can get free government healthcare, I think that is crucial in such an advanced economy like ours. We have so much money and we are one of the wealthiest countries in the world. It is unbelievable that Americans have can't get health care and they have to ruin their lives simply for even having an accident or something happened, something happens to them that they didn't even plan for. And so I think health care, fixing grocery prices and housing, those are three areas I focus on, really, as a Democrat.

Rachel Janfaza (20:16)

Yeah, and I'm glad you brought up health care because I think it's a misconception that young people don't care about health care and that it's something that only older people have to think about because, like, young people are relatively healthy, etc. But if you think about the fact that fewer young people are getting entry level jobs and our health care is tied to jobs in this country, that is a huge problem for young people. And also when you think about reproductive health care access for young women, you know, obviously that's a top priority for young women in particular. It's part of the gender gap. But they see reproductive health care as intricately woven in like the bigger picture of healthcare, because of course it is. And so it's a main concern. And I don't think that it gets addressed enough when looking specifically at younger voters and messaging to them. Going back to the housing crisis specifically, we heard a lot from young people about the housing crisis, whether they're looking for homes or currently have one. So let's listen.

Gen Z Focus Group Participant 2 (21:10)

I also want to start family. Once I start working, I want to live in like a sort of suburban area. I don't want to be stuck in like an apartment or like a flat for the rest of my life. And I'm also like, not very optimistic about it since house prices keep going up and up and up. Unprecedented value. I know my house has doubled its value in the last 10 years. And at this rate, I think the median home buyer age is like late 30s, early 40s. And I'm not looking to really buy a house then. I want to buy earlier than that. If we look back in the past, like, I'm sure we've all seen some type of statistic, like back in 1920 or 30, if you were 30 years old you have family in the house now it's like that was like maybe 80 or 70, about 30 years old back then and now 20, 26, like 29 of 30 year olds have a family and have a house. So it's like just on the realistic side. Just doesn't look good. I know friends and friends, friends who have graduated for years now and they still haven't gotten their job and same thing, they're working at Home Depot or waitress jobs. A house is a bit ambitious for me. So I'd say my goal is probably going to be like try to max out my 401k each year, like having it set to the max limit and then trying to go from there at least. My dad is also a pastor and him, him, my mom were able to get a house within five years and they had four kids too and were able to do it. And I don't think that that's going to be a possibility for me. I think it will take a decade plus before I own a house.

Gen Z Focus Group Participant 3 (22:36)

I applied and got a pre approval for an like $285,000 house which was literally trailers near me. So luckily I found a small condo that was. But I am a little worried just because this year my they adjusted my taxes for last year and for this

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Rotimi Adioye (23:14)

Some years ago families sold their family home and the person that bought it bought I think about maybe 20 or 25 other homes as well within that same short span of time. And just kind of recently was actually looking my old family homes now for ren with like two times the rent of the mortgage price.

Gen Z Focus Group Participant 2 (23:35)

There's not much opportunity to own a home anywhere where there's job opportunities. I mean in North Carolina you can go live in the boonies, you know, maybe get a little trailer out there. I think that's about the most affordable thing for me. But where I currently live now, there's no way I could buy a house out here.

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Rachel Janfaza (25:23)

Okay, so I want to zoom out for a second because we focus so much on a version of the American dream that actually doesn't exist anymore. And you were talking about this before. Does it really have to exist in that way anymore? A lot in our society and economy has changed since the time that many of the participants were referring to of when it was easier to for young people to buy homes. So should buying a home really still be the core of the American dream?

Rotimi Adioye (25:48)

So I think that's an interesting question. That's something that I've heard from folks after I've written this piece. And I think it's a really fair critique. And the one thing I would push back on is that ownership has always been a core part of the American experience. But also it's how people actually feel invested in in their community and feel invested in where they're living in where they're living. It's not that. And I'm not saying that just because one rents, they can't be invested in a community. I'm renting a house right now. I feel like I'm invested in my community here in Philadelphia. I attend community meetings. I'm very involved in our local neighborhood association. I'm saying that it gives you roots and it gives you a place where you feel connected to a place you can really build yourself in. And so I think, of course, not every American is going to want to own a home. Not every young person is going to want to take that route. But I think what we can't do is say that the people that have been working so hard to do that cannot have that option because the government has failed them. And that's really what I hope we can get past. And if I think we build more housing and actually have a plan focused on making sure that if young people have been working for a period of time, they can just receive some support to pay for a mortgage payment, we can help those who want to take part in that part of the American dream do so. I also do want to add, I think there is a lack of ambition. Sometimes we talk about the American dream because we've kind of accepted that just because for the last 10 to 20 years we've had politicians from both sides of the aisle come in and promise to do things and failed completely, that we cannot, we can now not do what we used to do in the past, I think I reject that notion completely. I think that given that we did all these things in the past, that that made the American dream possible, I think we can do them again. And I think that if we keep optimistic, even though it looks so bleak and grim right now with the state of the economy, I think we have some optimism in rebuilding some type of American dream. We can make it happen. And maybe it won't look exactly like the past, but I think if we can guarantee that if you work hard and pay your taxes, you can have a stable life. You can take a vacation once or twice a year, you can save for, save for retirement, you can save your kids college fund. I think that's all people want. They just want some basic stability. And that I think is the core of the American dream.

Rachel Janfaza (28:12)

Yeah, I hear it called financial freedom a lot. That's how it's articulated in many of the focus groups that I've been part of. I think also, you know, there's a lot of proposals around how to fix education, whether it means changing the sort of curriculum to make it more apt to the current workforce or of course there's been, you know, campaigns to cancel student debt. There have been other more sort of on the local level, campaigns around free college and ways to make college more affordable. And I feel like the housing dynamic, we haven't seen as much creativity there. So I think, you know, this is an important suggestion that you raise. But I also just do wonder if, you know, we've, we've changed so much in how we think about what success looks like in this country and young people are really rewriting the, the rule book of what that means. And so I just wonder if homeownership is something that might eventually not be as a key a part of that picture of success in this country as it once was. And I'm not saying That's a good thing or bad thing, but I just think maybe it is time to re. Envision that a little given just we've re envisioned other things so you know. But I, but again I hear your point on why ownership is important. And also it's something that is an investment that people make and that they can build wealth off of. And I think that that's important too. Along the lines of policy. In a more recent focus group we asked about some of the specific policy that young people want to see on housing. And the first person in here actually seemingly had heard about the House by 30 proposal. Let's listen.

Gen Z Focus Group Participant 3 (29:58)

I think that would be so amazing. The only reason I even have my house is me and my husband both worked two jobs for five years. We didn't even see each other the first four years of our marriage because we were both working two jobs just to buy this house. But like we didn't, we didn't eat, we barely slept, we didn't do anything. Like we were just, we almost, we worked ourselves almost to death. And that's so unrealistic. We had to put all of the things we wanted to do on hold like going on vacation, having kids just so we could pay off this house so it'd be easier then.

Rotimi Adioye (30:31)

So I think 30 for our generation is probably like around like the number

Gen Z Focus Group Participant 2 (30:39)

of when people would probably want to start having kids. Maybe on the later side I think that's cool. But I think the focus should be on regulation of investors and also job security.

Gen Z Focus Group Participant 3 (30:53)

I just feel like right now we're giving so much money to fund wars that have not nothing to do with us. We're already over $39 trillion in debt. I feel like if we stopped giving so much money overseas and taking loans when we're already so much in debt, we could focus on the US and our issues. Housing, inflation. We could really take care of our own country before we are allying with others for wars that have nothing to do with us.

Gen Z Focus Group Participant 1 (31:22)

They just proposed a policy. I don't know if it's officially been approved, but I think it's in final discussions now. But they just proposed a policy that you can't like large conglomerations and companies and organizations cannot bid on the sheriff sale anymore or that they can't buy more than one home anymore. And I really hope that that gets passed because that will be able to open the door for a lot more other people like first time home buyers be able to buy a home. So then that way that can help with the housing shortage or ownership shortage.

Rachel Janfaza (31:59)

So on this idea of shortage, there's a lot of blame that's put on, whether it's real estate investors or things like Airbnb as drivers of the housing shortage. What do you think are the biggest drivers?

Rotimi Adioye (32:10)

Well, I think, you know, certainly there's a portion of the housing market that's being taken captive by private investors. And I think the folks that are doing that should be held accountable 100%. And I support the proposal mentioned by the folks, by the person, the focus group that talks about banning some of those large corporate entities from buying housing. And I believe that's something that's being considered seriously in Congress, and I think it's a great idea. But I think when you do look at the numbers and you look at places like New York, you look at places like San Francisco, and then you look at even smaller cities, what you do notice is there's a fundamental lack of supply. And I think, again, what we have to do is get rid of really bad zoning laws that are in the way of allowing people to build more housing, because what happens when you build more housing, it lowers the cost of housing because there are now more houses available for people to buy, and the price, the median homeowner price, becomes lower. And so I do think a core of the housing issue really has to be ensuring that we can build more housing. And, you know, I think we do talk a lot about how there's some bad corporations that are buying multiple houses, and I do think that's true. But I do think there is another group of people that are also causing a really big problem in the housing market. And sometimes it's really a lot of older Americans who have bought a house in a neighborhood, and they've had the house for many years. And then a construction group comes by and says, oh, we want to build more housing in your neighborhood. And they realize that if there's more housing built in that neighborhood, that will lower their price of housing. So then they now say, oh, we don't want to build more housing. We don't want anything to do with this. And so they protest, they make noise, they really get involved in their community and frankly, a negative way to stop more housing being built. And that's something we see in a lot of cities. When I used to live in D.C. i was renting an apartment right off of New Hampshire Avenue, and they were trying to build a new, very large apartment building that would have lowered housing prices for people in D.C. and so many people who had owned condos came out and protested for days and days, literally for like almost weeks, to try to stop this new housing development from getting built, despite the fact that if it was built, it would lower the median price of housing in our area. So I do really think again that there are some really nefarious corporations out there that are buying houses and reselling them at a rapidly high rate. But when you do look at the data, what it does show is that we have a supply problem problem. And then when you look deeper at that, there are a group of really landowning Americans, really this new gentry class, some people will call it, that are trying to ensure that new housing isn't built so their housing price, how the housing value, excuse me, doesn't decrease.

Rachel Janfaza (34:59)

Sounds like you're. You're a little abundance pilled too. Would that be fair to say?

Rotimi Adioye (35:04)

I think the abundance framework is an. Is a interesting and good way to think about governing. I think the fundamental problem with the abundance framework, and, you know, I think this is something you can tell I and passionate about, is there's no really clear promises in the abundance framework. Just saying that, you know, you want to build more housing is cool, but saying you want to actually make sure that everyone who wants to and has been working hard and paying taxes can buy a house by 30 is a clear promise. So I think that's something that has been missing in the abundance framework is this really coherent set of promises. And I think the ideas that are suggested get at some of the core problems we have in our economy.

Rachel Janfaza (35:42)

You want to take it a step further?

Rotimi Adioye (35:43)

Yeah, I think it. I think it needs to go a step further. Yeah.

Rachel Janfaza (35:46)

Are there any Democrats you see right now who are talking about housing?

Rotimi Adioye (35:49)

Well, that's a good question. Hmm. I think the Democrats that I've seen that have really impressed me on housing, Governor Shapiro here in Pennsylvania, I think he's really made it a clear priority of his to one, build more housing, but to getting rid of zoning laws that are in the way of people building more housing. I think that's something that he's been really effective as this wasn't a housing issue, but here in Pennsylvania, we had a bridge collapse years ago and he got rid of all the really wacky government laws that were in place that stopped bridges from being built quickly and said, you know, this road is a road that people use to get to work, to get school, hospitals use to transport people back and forth. We have to get it built. And so he moved quickly because he understood that getting things done is really the priority of any government that's effective. And so he's someone, I think, that has talked about housing in a really interesting way. And I think he has a lot of opportunity, if he decides to run for president, to have a really exciting and coherent housing plan.

Rachel Janfaza (36:53)

Another dynamic that's been on my mind is in my focus groups. Often I hear a difference in how young men and young women are talking about what their futures look like and sort of the traditional life milestones that they feel they need to. To cross in order to achieve a level of success. And we tend to hear young women leaning into what they call financial freedom, more so than specifically saying that they want to own a home. Whereas we hear young men talk a lot about homeownership, specifically, and the act of that. I'm curious if you've noticed that dynamic at all in your work or in your personal life and what you make of it.

Rotimi Adioye (37:35)

I'll get a little personal here. I got engaged last summer. Thank you. And so, you know, this is this conversation about buying a house, starting a future life, milestones, having kids is something I feel like I see in my own personal life, but I see daily. I feel like I'm getting wedding invites all the time. Time I'm getting friends saying they're starting families and having babies, which is very exciting. And it's always really great news to hear. I think the point you mentioned, that gender split, I think is definitely interesting and really profound. I think one, because in the last, I think, 30 years in this country, we have seen, which is very good, in my opinion, you've seen more women enter the workforce, and you've seen more women be able to achieve economic prosperity. So I think it makes total sense to me why you're seeing more young women than men say that economic prosperity, economic freedom is important to them because that's a really new and great part of our American experience and the economy that we have. And so something that I've really liked and thought that is something that someone should come up with. It's an idea I've sort of been fleshing out, is if there's a way that we can create some sort of, you know, we already have 401ks, but some sort of investment vehicle that young people can really begin to invest into by the time they're 18 or 19, and then by the time they get into their mid-30s or 40s, they can have access to that money and use that to start a family or buy a home or really do something else other than just retire. And I think that's important. Because there are a lot of young people that just need some of that financial freedom, not only to buy a house, but you know, when they have a kid, to buy diapers, to pay for daycare, to pay for all these new life things. And so having some sort of investment vehicle that people could tap into, I think could be something interesting. And you know, I've talked with folks in the policy space about, and I think there, there are some people that are working on it, but I, I think there is something there about having some sort of savings or investment vehicle for young people.

Rachel Janfaza (39:37)

Yeah, I like that idea. And it's very different than a child tax credit or there was, I wrote about this last year, but there was a Trump proposal or it never really got, it wasn't official, but there was a float of an idea to offer incentives for first time mothers, like a baby boom incentive, which doesn't really work. But this vehicle, a savings account really that you can unlock at a certain threshold. That sounds interesting. I like that. Yeah, I'd like to see it. Yeah.

Rotimi Adioye (40:10)

You know, and on your point on the child tax credit, there's a really interesting paper by a political scientist called Susan Mettler. She wrote about this idea called the submerged state. And what she argues is that the reason that western democracies have been having a lot of issues in the last 10 to 20 years is because people are paying taxes into a government and they're not seeing clear evidence of that government working. And I thought the child tax credit came from a really good place from a lot of policymakers in the Biden administration. But one of the big issues with it is what Mettler talks about in that submerged state paper is that it's kind of a hidden benefit. You know, you don't really see it up front. You see it at the end of a year during taxes, but then it comes in waves and it's in this weird bracket and you sort of qualify, you sort of don't qualify. And so when you have a government that operates in this really opaque way that's not clear, a lot of people lose faith in it. And again, strong, that's how strongman politics becomes popular and that's how people tap into that. And so I think going back to, I think the big core of this conversation, which is Democrats, I think the more Democrats can move away from, from submerged state politics and move into politics that are clear and visible and actually touch people, that's actually going to create a better country.

Rachel Janfaza (41:28)

Well, that's part of why local politics is actually something that can be so effective in getting people into the door of politics in the first place. And why so many young people are getting involved in local politics and care about it more so than federal politics right now is because it's so tangible and it's something that like genuinely will impact their day to day life, whereas the federal stuff can feel so much more removed. So I totally think it's, you know, it's necessary to be able to see where the legislation is happening. This is part of two. You know, I talk a lot about young people growing up with instant gratification. We all grew up with a phone in our hands and we're used to things happening really quickly and politics doesn't work like that. And so as much as possible that elected officials can actually show where the action is happening or where the results are playing out, the more important it will be for buy in from people, from voters to create that dynamic relationship where they actually can see policy unfolding in real time rather than just some lofty thing that exists over there that they don't feel like actually really is affecting their lives.

Rotimi Adioye (42:35)

No, definitely. Yeah.

Rachel Janfaza (42:36)

Okay. So just one other thing I want to touch on with regard to this gender gap issue and these traditional milestones and we're at a similar point in life because I'm also engaged and I have a bunch of. Thank you. But a lot of, you know, weddings and friends starting families and even friends who are thinking about going through the process of like, oh, could I ever buy a home, the rent is so high. Can I even afford this rental apartment? And I think I'm curious just to push you a little bit further on this. Do you see the dynamic playing out where it feels like young men and young women's priorities are kind of going in different diverging directions when it comes to what the metrics of success look like or what those traditional milestones that they might be focused on look like. When it comes to the concept of putting roots down, which you mentioned is a part in your eyes of the American dream, do you see a difference there?

Rotimi Adioye (43:36)

I think that's an interesting question. I do definitely think there's is a difference. One, I think, because in America we've always had this idea of, you know, the man goes out and works all day and then wife stays home and takes care of the family and that just doesn't really exist anymore. It also was something that only really you saw wealthy families could take part in. And that's really a part of our country, a story in our country that's not really true. And I think for good reason. And so I do think there is a difference in, you know, what men and women, younger men and women may want out of the economy. What I, what I do think, though, between both of those groups is again, is this idea of economic stability and security and how that happens, whether that's through just, you know, having more money saved to your bank account or owning a home, I think is interesting. But I, I do think at the root of it, if, if we can figure out just how to make people feel a little more economically secure, we can make sure that both young men and women are achieving their own version of the American dream.

Rachel Janfaza (44:46)

I want to ask you one other question. When it comes to housing, I've seen some proposals of if we're going to build more housing, we also need more public transportation and we need more infrastructure in certain areas of cities or of rural areas that weren't previously residential in that way. Do you, have you thought about that at all? And do you see the need for that infrastructure as sort of a complimentary piece to your idea of the house by 30 and the fact that we need to build more homes?

Rotimi Adioye (45:15)

Definitely. I think public transit is a core part of making sure that we have a society that is one, I think, climate change friendly. I think when you have public transit, it is a great thing for the environment. I also think that it's more efficient and really allows people to get faster, but get to places faster where they need to get to. So I do think the difficulty, I think with public transit is there's so many communities that feel locked out of, of public transit, given their really distance from those large cities like Philadelphia, D.C. new York, and so sometimes I worry that if we focus too much on public transit, we may ignore that a lot of these forgotten communities that aren't close to cities also do need some investment and in different ways. And so I do think that public transit is a core part of making sure that we live in a great country and we making sure that people have access to their community and different parts of the country. But at the end of the day, I want, I think we have to focus first on some of the basics, which are really economic security, things like housing, things like health care, things like, you know, grocery prices. And then once we, I think, dress those things, we can get to some of these more, I think, tougher things like public transit. That I think requires a little more policy creativity. But I think those three issues really like housing, health care, grocery prices, if we can focus on those three things, I think One of the American people are going to notice as Democrats that we're paying attention to that. While the President and the Republicans are focused on crypto scams, they're focused on waging illegal wars in the Middle East. And they're going to say that these are actually leaders that actually want to get things done. And then when we come to power as Democrats, Republicans that are actually interested in solving this problem are going to want to come to the table and work with Democrats that are serious about those three issues.

Rachel Janfaza (47:14)

I think zooming out. I really liked your investment vehicle idea for teenagers to unlock at a later, not too far off point in life, not, not retirement, but for actually, like years of living and growing a family. I feel like, you know, a lot of, when it comes to the house by 30 or other propos with regard to health care, there's always going to be criticism of, okay, how are you going to pay for that? But I feel like that investment vehicle is sort of, you know, doesn't have. That isn't really part of the equation there, which I appreciate, and I'm curious, too. You know, I think we know so much of that criticism that comes when a proposal like this is floated is, oh, like this is impossible to pay for. But the reality is that if you look at the way, and this goes back to your initial point about why campaign promises are important and why a politics of promises is important because it gives people something that they can imagine. When so much of the political conversation for the past 10 years has been all about pushing against something and fighting against something, this is actually something that young people could see as something to look for, look towards. And I think that's really necessary when we think about a vision for the future of American politics and something that will actually get young people excited about politics rather than something that just feels so toxic and we're always fighting against something. So I just, I appreciate that you're floating these ideas.

Rotimi Adioye (48:30)

And I also want to say one thing. You know, whenever someone says that we can't afford more housing, better health care, I reject that notion 100%. We're spending so much money right now on the military waging an illegal war in a country that we shouldn't be really doing anything in terms of militarily what we're doing now. We spend so much money on things that we shouldn't be spending money on. We're giving tax breaks to corporations. They're not even generating new jobs. They're using those tax breaks to invest in AI so they can hire less people. And so I think we can ask that these corporations and these hedge funds can pay a little bit more so we can just have a country that's functioning. I don't think we're asking for too much.

Rachel Janfaza (49:13)

Well, Richie, me, thank you so much for joining us. And thanks, everyone for listening to another episode of the focus group.

Rotimi Adioye (49:19)

Thanks for having me.