The Focus Group Podcast - S6 Ep6: "They're 'Opening the Door'" (with Andrew Egger)

Date: October 11, 2025
Host: Sarah Longwell (The Bulwark)
Guest: Andrew Egger (Bulwark reporter, Morning Shots newsletter)

Episode Overview

This episode offers an "authoritarian smorgasbord"—a multifaceted exploration of how average voters are experiencing, rationalizing, and responding to the ongoing actions of the Trump administration, especially regarding the use of executive power and free speech. Sarah Longwell and Andrew Egger dissect voters’ reactions through recent focus groups, particularly swing and conservative voters grappling with Trump’s deployment of the National Guard, the role of cancel culture on the right, and the broader turmoil and confusion around core American principles like free speech.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Evolving Right: Principles vs. Power (03:23–09:01)

• Shifting Ideologies: Both Sarah and Andrew reflect on the ideological journey of the right. The conversation points out the contrast between their own conservative upbringings—which emphasized states’ rights and caution around federal executive power—and the new MAGA-driven conservatism that is less focused on traditional principles than on winning and exercising power.
  • Sarah: "We were raised on states’ rights...so much of the things that made me a conservative were institutional ones." (05:55)
• Voter Disconnect: Sarah notes that most right-leaning voters do not appear to have absorbed the same institutional or ideological lessons about limited government, federalism, or free speech that she and Andrew did.
  • "I guess I did think that voters on the right broadly cared about limited government...When I started doing focus groups...the very first thing I realized was, oh, they are not thinking about any of these things." (07:52)

2. Swing Voter Reactions to Trump’s Leadership (10:28–15:09)

• General Voter Sentiment: Mixed and often contradictory feelings surface from swing voters. While some still applaud certain Trump-era policies like border security or economic outcomes, many express qualms about his behavior, including a sense of danger and overreach.
  • "He's acting like a kid in a sandbox. He's just using his power for all kinds of crazy things...I now consider him to be dangerous." ([10:30])
  • "I thought Trump was going to come in and literally save the day...I feel like he lied and he's using his presidency as a personal [tool]..." ([11:07])
• Disillusionment and Transactional Voting: Some voters accepted Trump’s flaws as the price for policies they liked—“You’ve got to have a little rain before the sun comes out, right?” ([12:07])
• Swing Voters’ Policy Ledger: Many voters weigh Trump’s authoritarian tendencies against perceived policy successes, arriving at pragmatic, sometimes uneasy verdicts:
  • "He's doing some insane stuff, but he's also doing some good stuff. And I still remember why I wanted him to do the good stuff that he's doing. But I wish he wasn't doing this crazy stuff." (21:42)

3. "Authoritarian Smorgasbord": The National Guard in Chicago (23:33–26:36)

• National Guard Deployment: Participants wrestle with Trump’s willingness to use the military for domestic issues, especially in cities with high crime or immigration-related stress.
  • "If it's things like peaceful protests...I don't think that excessive force is needed. If it's a gang, sure, get the military." ([23:34])
  • Former military voter: "I don't agree with the military being used against civilians at all. I'm former military...I signed up to fight enemies of the United States and my fellow Americans are not my enemy." ([24:04])
• Concerns Over Chilling Effects: Voters note the discomfort and chaos that military presence brings, including for legal residents.
  • "A lot of these people...they have family...it's just a recipe for disaster in my eyes...people are scared, even affecting the legal residents." ([26:04])

4. Voter Bewilderment & Information Trust Collapse (28:26–34:30)

• Muddled Civic Understanding: A prevalent voter response is a lack of clarity or trust regarding what’s really happening, intensified by a deluge of conflicting information and waning trust in all media sources.
  • "I just don't really know what's going on, but I just have this sort of, like, vague, uneasy sense that [Trump] is opening a door to an even darker place than where we are right now." ([28:26])
• Low vs. Saturated Information Voters: Sarah challenges the idea of the 'low information voter', observing that the real issue now is not access, but discernment.
  • "There is no such thing as low information anymore really. It's like everybody's saturated with information. The question is now discernment..." ([31:01])

5. Free Speech, Government Retaliation, and Cancel Culture (Jimmy Kimmel, FCC, & Right-Wing Cancellations; 35:38–49:11)

a. Swing Voter Alarm Over Kimmel/ABC Incident (36:10–41:12)

• Kimmel’s Deplatforming and FCC Pressure: Focus group participants were queasy about visible government involvement in removing a TV personality from the airwaves.

  • "That’s not the President’s job...it’s embarrassing to me." ([36:10])
  • "I lament that from here on out, the entire federal administration is going to be politicized...I want people who know what they’re doing running the government and who aren’t going to be just swayed by the will of whoever's in charge." ([37:04])

• Slippery Slope Concerns: Voters worry about the long-term impact of these actions on foundational principles.

  • "To me, freedom of speech is a foundational principle for our country. So to me, it was very much an attempt at censorship, and it was scary." ([37:57])

• Tit-for-Tat Cynicism: A sense of weary realpolitik is settling in among some, who see the incident as payback for the de-platforming of Trump.

  • "It’s tit for tat nonsense...Trump wants to de-platform the people who championed him being de-platformed..." ([38:34])

b. Conservative Group Perspective (44:07–47:52)

• Different Free Speech Standards: More conservative voters are less shocked by government or FCC intervention if it means upholding standards or correcting perceived bias—though confusion about the limits of free speech vs. consequences is apparent.
  • "If it's something that's a global tragedy...why wouldn't they step in? That's kind of their job." ([44:08])
  • "Freedom of speech doesn’t protect you from freedom of consequence when you say something that isn’t professional or ethical." ([46:44])
• Reliance on Market Forces: Some express a preference for the market to decide such issues, with skepticism toward overt government action.
  • "We don't have hate speech laws in this country, and I pray to God we never do. But there are consequences to what you say." ([45:44])

c. The New Cancel Culture on the Right (49:11–52:27)

• Right-Wing Cancel Culture: With institutional power, right-wing coalitions have begun to wield the same pressure and cancellation tactics they once decried on the left.
  • "Cancel culture used to be seen as this thing that sort of leftish people online would band together...now you have a broad sort of right-wing faction that's decided, well, we can do the same thing..." (49:11)
• Confusion and Contradiction: Many voters can hold conflicting maxims about free speech and consequences simultaneously, applying them as it suits their tribe or moment.
  • "For a lot of people, those are both just true statements. When you're sort of feeling your way through a conversation about these things..." (49:11)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Andrew Egger:
  • On the shifting right: “More power should be decentralized in America...there are real risks to letting in particular the executive of the country accumulate more and more and more power to himself.” (04:17)
  • On voter bewilderment: “I just don’t know what is happening right now, and I wish I did, but I don’t know where to look to find information about it. And everybody seems to be lying a lot...” (28:26)
  • On cancel culture: “Now you have a broad sort of like right-wing faction that’s decided, well, we can do the same thing…there’s this actual sense that there’s this collective power that they can wield.” (49:11)
• Sarah Longwell:
  • On principles: “I am always shocked at these people. I’m like, what did it mean to you guys then to be a conservative? That what Trump is doing right now isn’t completely anathema to everything that you were brought up in?” (07:00)
  • On the focus group process: “Voters...are like a kind of weird salad of stuff. Not ideologically linear and even say often very contradictory things in back-to-back statements.” (17:17)
  • On the meaning of "low information" today: “Being low information just means like you’re a well adjusted person who lives your life and doesn’t get sucked into all of the insanity.” (31:01)
• Swing Voters:
  • “Sometimes you got to have a little rain before the sun comes out, right? But yeah, I was under no illusion that Trump was going to stink.” (12:07)
  • "I just have this sort of, like, vague, uneasy sense that he is opening a door to an even darker place than where we are right now." (28:26)
  • "We're like little minions in Trump's playground." (36:10)
  • "Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences." (38:34)

Important Segment Timestamps

• Opening, Overview, Context: 00:54–04:17
• Discussion – Conservatism in the Age of MAGA: 04:17–09:01
• Swing Voters on Trump’s Leadership: 10:28–15:09
• Smorgasbord Segment & Voter Contradictions: 17:17–21:42
• National Guard in Chicago – Reactions & Concerns: 23:33–26:36
• Collapse in Information Trust: 28:26–34:30
• Kimmel/ABC/FCC & Cancel Culture Discussion: 35:38–52:27
• Closing Reflections: 52:27–End

Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, lightly irreverent, and empathetic both to the participants and to the confusion of average voters. Sarah and Andrew bring an insider’s knowledge of the right’s intellectual history, but remain grounded in real-world focus group observations, often fusing rueful humor (“weird salad of stuff”) with serious warnings about the drift toward authoritarianism and the corrosion of American civic understanding.

Takeaways for Listeners

• Voters’ Judgments Are Complex and Contradictory: Most swing voters weigh their unease over Trump’s behavior against policy wins—often not using clear ideological reasoning.
• Erosion of Principle-Informed Conservatism: There’s deep concern about how right-wing ideology has shifted, with power and tribal loyalty outpacing institutional principles like free speech and federalism.
• Civic Bewilderment: Massive distrust—in media, government, and institutions—has left many voters confused, alienated, and vulnerable to manipulative partisanship.
• Cancel Culture Is Now Bipartisan: Tactics to silence, punish, or de-platform are being adopted by both left and right, complicating old claims of philosophical consistency.
• Discernment, Not Volume, Is the Crisis: In an era of information overload, the core challenge is not ignorance, but the ability to sort and trust the deluge of data.

Essential quote:
"I just don’t know what is happening right now, and I wish I did, but I don’t know where to look to find information about it. And everybody seems to be lying a lot and everything’s really confusing." – Voter, [28:26]