Transcript
A (0:00)
Dan I'm Dan Kurtz Phelan, and this is the Foreign affairs interview.
B (0:06)
And sadly, you know, in all my experience in the Middle east over the years, it's the place where grand ambitions and, you know, ill conceived strategies go to die. And it is a place where pessimists always feel right at home.
A (0:22)
In 2024, when he was director of the Central Intelligence Agency, Bill Burns wrote in an essay in Foreign affairs about the plastic moments that come along only a few each century, and argued that the United States faces one of those rare moments today, as consequential as the dawn of the Cold war or the post 911 period. If that claim seemed bold at the time, events in the past couple of years have made it undeniable. A major war in Europe, two wars in the Middle east sharpening US China tension, an American administration committed to projecting power in new and disruptive ways. Inflection point is an overused term, but this is a moment when, as Burns argued in that essay, it really does fit. Before becoming CIA director, Burns was one of the most highly respected diplomats in recent American history. He started the secret negotiations that led to the Iran nuclear deal. He served as ambassador to Russia. As the State Department's top Middle east official, he warned internally of the consequences of invading Iraq in 2003. He has spent years sitting across the table from American allies and adversaries, trying to understand what drives them and how Washington should and should not deal with them. I spoke to Burns on the afternoon of April 1 about the course and consequences of the war in Iran, about Vladimir Putin and the war in Ukraine and Xi Jinping and US China competition, about the future of intelligence and about what the Trump administration will mean for the future of American power. Bill, thank you for doing this. I'm thrilled to have you on the podcast, just as I'm always thrilled to have you in our pages.
B (1:58)
My pleasure, Dan. It's really nice to see you and thanks so much for inviting me.
A (2:02)
There's an enormous amount happening in the world today that I'm eager to get your insight on. Obviously, a war in the Middle east, war in Europe, the risk of a US China war, the impact of technology on national security and geopolitics, much more. But I want to start by stepping back. Your remarkable career in American foreign policy, culminating at least thus far in your stints as Deputy Secretary of State and CI director, mostly coincided with the post Cold War era. In the essay you wrote for Foreign affairs in 2024, when you were CIA director, you pronounced the post Cold War Era definitively over. And we're now two years away from that essay and that pronouncement. How, as you've understood these past couple of years, how do you understand and describe the new era we're in?
