POWERS Podcast – Episode #389

Imran Khan – Founder @ Proem Asset Management:
"Investing In The Fourth Industrial Revolution"
Host: Chris Powers
Release Date: June 24, 2025

Episode Overview

In this deep-dive conversation, Chris Powers sits down with Imran Khan, founder of Proem Asset Management and a former top-rated analyst and executive at Credit Suisse and Snap, to discuss the evolving landscape of investing during what Khan calls "the Fourth Industrial Revolution." The dialogue tracks Imran's unique journey from Wall Street to Silicon Valley, examines the global contest for AI supremacy, explores public vs. private market dynamics, and distills hard-won investing principles—emphasizing conviction, adaptability, and skepticism amid rapid technological change.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Early Career and What Makes a Great Analyst

(02:52–06:41)

• Imran recounts his rise as one of the top research analysts, attributing his early success to sharp stock calls (such as on Infospace) and a knack for challenging management with uncomfortable, yet accurate, insights about margins.
• Imran: "Whenever a CEO makes fun of you or is mean to you, that means you're pushing something that's close to their heart." (05:22)
• He highlights the continued importance of solid analysis, good client service, and availability: "Good stock call, good analysis, good research report, and good marketing... makes you a good sell-side analyst." (06:28)

2. Margin Analysis—What Really Matters

(06:41–08:18)

• Gross margins are toughest to improve; sales/marketing and G&A can be cut, but "cost of your product is cost of your product."
• Step-function margin changes signal fundamental shifts—key for investors to spot opportunity or risk.

3. Evolution of Investment Research

(08:18–11:32)

• Research is radically democratized. Where once access to management and insiders was a moat for institutions, now retail investors leverage AI tools and social media to be "in the conversation."
• Imran notes the rise of the smart, tech-savvy retail investor and cites recent market movements where retail outperformed institutions.

4. Risk Tolerance and Generational Edge

(11:32–12:20)

• Today’s successful retail traders are both tech-native and more comfortable with risk, reminiscent of how Imran outpaced older analysts in the dot-com era by being digitally fluent.

5. Bubbles, Conviction, and the Difficulty of Timing Tech

(13:07–15:53)

• Bubbles and busts are timeless, driven by human FOMO and panic.
• Imran stresses the need for investor conviction and patience: "You might be right, but a little early... having strong conviction is really, really important."
• On AI: "It is the Fourth Industrial Revolution... will change our life forever... but who will be the winner? It's very hard to say sitting here." (14:22–15:18)

6. Investing in AI—Approaches and Challenges

(17:11–19:55)

• Khan frames AI value creation as broad: chipmakers (Nvidia), infrastructure, applications, and data-owners.
• Success hinges on execution, not just vision.
• "I like to call it AI arbitrage... If you look at what makes an AI business successful: you need a lot of data, you need a lot of distribution, and a good product." (19:00)

7. The US vs. China—AI Race and Systemic Differences

(19:55–23:16)

• Both US and China, Imran says, are competitive in talent, with the US holding advantages in chips and capital systems, but China excelling in academic rigor, especially in STEM.
• US and China have similar core goals in AI—productivity and defense—but differ in approach and concerns about privacy/surveillance.
• "US has the chips... the capital system... I'm a big believer in America and ultimately US will win, but China will be a formidable competitor." (21:00)

8. Story: Alibaba, Joe Tsai, and IPO Lessons

(23:16–26:28)

• Imran shares how covering China’s internet boom led him to early meetings with Alibaba’s Joe Tsai and ultimately working on the then-largest IPO.
• Relationships matter; insight and network are built over repeated engagement and offering value.

9. China’s Changing Investment Landscape

(26:28–30:05)

• China always had structural investor protection risks (VIE structure), but increasing opacity and regulatory unpredictability eroded foreign investor trust.
• The macro relationship with China is more adversarial—Khan is cautious and does not foresee a quick resolution.

10. Founder Control and Entrepreneurship in China

(30:05–31:05)

• Government overreach and high-profile cases like Jack Ma’s send chilling signals for entrepreneurship in China.

11. Transition to Snap—Consumer Product Insights & Execution

(31:05–38:45)

• Imran details his surprise at Snap’s popularity with young bankers: "100% of the first- and second-year analysts raised hand, said, yes, we use Snapchat. There must be something to it." (32:20)
• Evan Spiegel’s profound insight: young users wanted impermanent communication—“not everyday life has to be perfect”—contrasted with Facebook/Instagram status-seeking. (34:20)
• At Snap, Imran’s mission as Chief Strategy Officer was to build revenue from zero and innovate in mobile ad formats, driving exponential growth to a $1.6B run rate.

12. Innovating Ad Models and Navigating iOS Privacy

(38:45–39:09)

• Snap's ad model innovation has become an industry standard; ad-tracking changes by Apple have hit all ad-dependent platforms, but models are adapting.

13. Launching Proem Asset Management: Investment Philosophy

(39:09–41:19)

• Motivated by a lifelong love for stock picking and a desire to build his own investment platform, Imran finally founded Proem after Snap's success.
• He emphasizes long-term orientation and aligns compensation with outperformance (a hurdle rate): "A hedge fund manager should get paid unless they beat some sort of hurdle rate." (41:07)

14. Investment Framework—Checklists and Edge

(41:19–42:32)

• Imran highlights qualities he looks for:
  • Strong gross margins/pricing power
  • Revenue acceleration in mature companies
  • Product upgrade cycles with large installed bases
  • “Invest with government”—recognize the outsized impact of policy and central banks

15. Relationships and Bias in Investing/Founders

(42:55–45:03)

• Imran warns that constant direct access to management can bias investors due to founders’ charisma: "Spending too much time listening to management is the fastest way to lose money." (44:16)

16. Building Teams: Missionaries vs. Mercenaries

(45:03–46:57)

• “Definitely missionaries,” for core teams; mercenaries have their uses in scaling but pose loyalty and ethics risks.

17. The Market’s Psychology and Herd Dynamics

(47:07–48:50)

• Classic wisdom: "The market likes to fool the greatest number of people." — overconsensus means risk is priced in; surprises come at the margin.

18. AI Convictions and What the Average Person Underestimates

(49:21–50:15)

• The true, life-altering impact of AI is underappreciated: within 20 years, everything—from work to communication—will be transformed, often in unpredictable ways.

19. Private Markets vs. Public Markets: The Power Shift

(50:15–53:21)

• The pendulum has swung too far toward private markets—too much capital is chasing too few deals, eroding investor power ("all the power lies with the corporate"), making liquidity and capital-return timelines problematic.
• "If a company stay in a private, the risk goes up... it's very hard to predict what's going to happen 12, 13, 14 years [out]." (51:04)
• Imran predicts a normalization: "At some point people have to write some of these zombie unicorns down." (53:38)

Memorable Quotes & Timestamp References

• On Management Charisma:
  "Spending too, too much time listening to the management team is the fastest way to lose money." (44:16)

• On Retail Investor Sophistication:
  "Small investors, the retail investors... are in many cases quite smart and they're having healthy debate in the social media." (10:38)

• On Generational Edge:
  "I was good at Internet early days because in 2001 I was 24 years old, I was digitally native." (11:53)

• On Technology Cycles:
  "There's always a bubble somewhere and there's always a bubble bursting somewhere." (13:07)

• On AI as Historical Shift:
  "AI will be a fundamental shirt. It's the fourth industrial revolution... will change our life forever." (14:20)

• On China's System vs. US:
  "I'm a big believer in America and I think ultimately US will win, but China want to be a formidable competitor." (21:00)

• On Building a Revenue Engine at Snap:
  "We went from zero revenue and then I think the quarter I left... we did $400 million quarterly revenue." (38:26)

• On Private Market Imbalances:
  "If thousand companies [put power in founders’ hands], the outcome cannot be great." (50:42)

Key Segment Timestamps

• Early Career and Analyst Discussion: 02:52–08:18
• Research Evolution & Retail Investors: 08:18–11:32
• Dot-com Bubble Compared to Today: 13:07–15:53
• Investing in AI Strategies: 17:11–19:55
• US vs. China—Advantages and Goals: 19:55–23:16
• Alibaba IPO Story: 23:16–26:28
• Challenges with Investing in China Now: 26:28–30:05
• Snap Story & Strategy: 31:05–38:45
• Launching Proem Asset Management: 39:09–41:19
• Investment Checklist: 41:19–42:32
• On Management Bias: 42:55–45:03
• Missionaries vs. Mercenaries: 45:03–46:57
• Market Psychology: 47:07–48:50
• AI’s Underappreciated Disruption: 49:21–50:15
• Rise & Pitfalls of Private Markets: 50:15–53:21

Closing Takeaways

• Invest with conviction but avoid overconfidence.
• Beware herd mentality—consensus breeds risk.
• Long-term orientation and adaptability are critical, especially in tech.
• The Fourth Industrial Revolution (AI) is unfolding; its winners (and impacts) are unpredictable.
• Private markets may be due for a reality check; public-market discipline remains essential.
• Investors must recognize their own biases, stay skeptical, and focus on fundamentals over hype.

For investing professionals, aspiring founders, and lifelong learners, this episode delivers a candid, timely view into markets at the edge of a technological epoch—blending practical wisdom with real-world war stories and sharp forward-looking advice.