Fr. Mike Schmitz Reviews "Conclave" Movie - The Fr. Mike Schmitz Catholic Podcast

Summary

Podcast Summary: Fr. Mike Schmitz Reviews "Conclave" Movie

The Fr. Mike Schmitz Catholic Podcast hosted by Ascension presents a thoughtful and in-depth review of the movie "Conclave" in its episode released on May 2, 2025. Fr. Mike Schmitz delves into the film's portrayal of the Catholic Church, its leadership, and the broader implications for faith and modern society. Below is a comprehensive summary capturing the key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

1. Surge in Popularity and Contextual Backdrop

Fr. Mike begins by addressing the significant increase in viewership for "Conclave," noting a surge of "hundreds of percent percentage points" following the death of Pope Francis and the onset of a real-life conclave (00:30). This spike underscores the public's heightened interest in the inner workings of the Church's leadership during a pivotal transition period.

2. Public Reactions to the Movie

Fr. Mike categorizes the audience's responses into distinct groups:

Vindicated Critics: These listeners feel validated in their negative perceptions of the Church, believing "the church is just horrible" and viewing the portrayal of corrupt and flawed cardinals as truthful (01:15).
Offended Viewers: This group takes issue with Hollywood's depiction of cardinals as "caricatures," lamenting the oversimplification of complex personalities into clear "good guys" and "bad guys" (02:00). They argue that the movie unfairly labels traditionally conservative cardinals as inherently bad while portraying reformist figures positively.
Shaken Believers: Fr. Mike identifies those who feel unsettled not by their faith in God, but by their faith in the Church institution itself. The film's emphasis on internal doubts and struggles within the Church resonates deeply with this group's experiences (03:10).
Personal Reflection: Fr. Mike admits to being part of a fourth group—those who engage with the movie out of curiosity or external pressure but find themselves "suffering through it" due to the film's underlying message (04:00).

3. Critical Analysis of the Movie's Message

Fr. Mike critiques the movie for conveying that the Church, in its humanity, is inherently "bad" and that certainty is portrayed as detrimental. He expresses frustration with the "caricature" portrayal and the notion that "the humanity of the Church is the enemy" (06:30). According to him, this perspective misrepresents the Church's dual nature of holiness and humanity.

4. Theological Perspective on Church's Dual Nature

Emphasizing the foundational beliefs of Catholicism, Fr. Mike highlights that the Church is both "holy" and "human" since its inception. He references Jesus Christ's establishment of the Church and the Holy Spirit's guidance into all truth (07:45). Fr. Mike underscores that human imperfection has always been part of the Church's reality, citing historical examples like the betrayal of apostles and the contentious first Council of Jerusalem (09:15).

5. The Value of Certainty in Faith

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the concept of certainty. Fr. Mike challenges the movie's implication that certainty is harmful, arguing instead that having unwavering faith in Jesus Christ and the Church is "the most dangerous thing you possibly could have" in a positive sense (11:00). He posits that true conviction in faith provides strength and guidance, contrary to the film's portrayal of certainty as an enemy in a postmodern world (12:30).

6. Personal and Collective Reflection

Fr. Mike encourages listeners to introspect by looking into their own hearts to understand the Church's holiness and fallenness. He relates this personal examination to the collective experience of the Church, affirming that "holy, broken, messy" characterizes its existence yet remains faithful to Christ's foundation (13:50). This balance between acknowledging human flaws and upholding divine guidance is presented as essential to living a faithful Christian life.

7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up, Fr. Mike reiterates the importance of embracing both the holiness and humanity of the Church. He dismisses the need to be "scandalized" by its imperfections, advocating instead for a confident and steadfast faith rooted in the teachings of Jesus Christ (14:20). His concluding message affirms the enduring strength and sanctity of the Church despite its human challenges.

Notable Quotes:

Fr. Mike Schmitz (00:30): "People watching the movie Conclave has gone up hundreds of percent percentage points, a lot since the death of Pope Francis."
Fr. Mike Schmitz (02:00): "Hollywood... make a movie where throughout, basically the whole movie, the cardinals are caricatures."
Fr. Mike Schmitz (06:30): "The humanity of the Church is not the enemy. It's part of the Church."
Fr. Mike Schmitz (11:00): "To have that certainty, to walk in that certitude, to live in that faith, I think that's a good way to live."
Fr. Mike Schmitz (14:20): "Holy, broken, messy. But it is still the church that Jesus Christ himself established and continues to guide by the power of his Holy Spirit."

Fr. Mike Schmitz's review of "Conclave" serves as a profound exploration of the tensions between faith, institutional Church dynamics, and modern cultural perceptions. His insights encourage listeners to differentiate between personal faith and the human flaws present within religious institutions, advocating for a balanced and informed understanding of the Church's role in believers' lives.

Transcript

Fr. Mike Schmitz (0:00)

People watching the movie Conclave has gone up hundreds of percent percentage points, a lot since the death of Pope Francis. Because we're entering into a real life conclave at the same time, I would say this. I watched it, so you don't have to. Wow. Hi, my name is Fr. Mike Schmitz, and this is Ascension Presents. There was a wide reaction from people who watch this movie. Some people vindicated, like, yeah, that's right. Church is just horrible. The church is the enemy. And I just knew it. I knew that all those cardinals were corrupt. All those cardinals were horrible people. Another was people were offended. How dare Hollywood, you know, make a movie where throughout, basically the whole movie, the cardinals are caricatures. These are clearly the good guys and these are clearly the bad guys. I mean, every person who has like a heterodox or unorthodox opinion, who wanted to change the church and make it like, brought up to modern day to basically match the culture, they were the kindest, they were the most soft hearted, they were the ones who had most integrity. In fact, the orthodox or the, you know, quote unquote, conservative cardinals are horrible. They're just like, truly jerks. I mean, all the way to the point where the way one of these cardinals talks to people and even the way he eats, gross as he's eating, you're like, yeah, because he's the bad guy. Clearly. The third group could be people who were shaken. Like, and I don't mean just like shaken by their faith in God, but about their faith in the church. That's one of the themes of the movie, is that here's all these cardinals who have been in the church so long talking about the previous Holy Father's faith. No, he didn't doubt God. He doubted the church. You're like, that is so the fourth group of people is maybe what I fell into. I watch it on a plane because I was like, at some point I keep being asked about this movie and I find I'll suffer through it. And I kind of did suffer through it. Why? There's an underlying message to the whole movie. And the whole underlying message is the church itself, in its humanity is bad. Not just flawed, but bad. And secondly, certainty is bad. I'm mildly annoyed by the caricature. I'm mildly annoyed by, yep, the humanity of the church is the enemy. And okay, quite clearly in a postmodern world, certainty is the enemy. When you, if you ever actually truly believe in something that's clearly the enemy. But I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised And I'm not shocked. I'm not scandalized. Why? Because if anyone's actually been in the church, if you've read the scriptures, you know the church is holy, right? Jesus Christ himself gave us the church. He founded the Church. He gave us the Holy Spirit. And he said, the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth. And Jesus. It's crazy. And Jesus selected these 12 men to be the first apostles and gave them the Holy Spirit. And what? One of them betrayed him? One of them denied him the first pope, the other nine. Am I getting that count right? Nine ran away from him, and only one was with Jesus at the crucifixion. So from the beginning, the Church is holy. And from the beginning, the church is human. And anyone who's surprised by that being depicted on a screen. I'm not trying to talk down to anyone. What I'm trying to say is it just is frustrating when people treat the humanity of the Church as if it's news. It's what we've all experienced, especially in the Church. I don't have to look to my pope or my bishop or. Or my pastor to look for the humanity of the Church. I literally just have to look in the mirror. I literally just have to go before the Lord and say, okay, God, search my heart and know me. Remember what St Paul says, says you're the body of Christ and individually members of it. And so if I want to know, if I want to see, if I want to see firsthand the holiness and humanness in sense of fallenness of the Church, I just have to look at my own heart. If you study anything of history, not just the first pope and the first apostles, but how about the Borgia popes? How about the Medici popes? How about like any other pope, you realize things have gone up and down, things have gone all over the place. I mean, even look at the first Council of Jerusalem, right? In the Acts of the Apostles, it says the apostles gathered together to talk about this big, big question. You can look at that later on. And it says there was no little discussion or no little disagreement, no little dissension among them. What's that mean? It means there's a lot of dissension. When you say there's no little disagreement means that means there's a lot of disagreement in the very, very first Church council. A bunch of disagreement. The Church is human and flawed and fallen. And when they came out of that, they wrote, it seems right to the Holy Spirit and to us. Because why? Because the Church is also holy. The humanity of the Church is not the enemy. It's part of the Church. Why? Because it's the humanity, the fallenness of the Church and the holiness of the Church. And so certainty. And that's the crazy part, this just annoyed me more than anything was the idea that someone who was convinced of the truth of Jesus Christ, someone who's convinced of the truth of the Gospel, someone who's convinced of the fact that Jesus Christ himself established the Church and promised to guide it into all truth, to have certainty in Jesus, to have certainty of faith, that that's the most dangerous thing you possibly could have. Now, don't get me wrong. There are some folks who have done horrible things in the name of God. Some people have done horrible things in the name of religion. But to believe with your whole heart, mind, soul and strength that God is one and he has Father, Son, Holy Spirit, that He sent the Father sent his whole, his Son to redeem us from our sins and brought the Holy Spirit into every one of our lives so that we could have new life on this earth and eternal life in the next. That God wants us to not only love him with all our heart, mind, soul and strength, but also love each other neighbor as ourselves. To be convinced of that and also to be convinced that he gives us his grace through the church that he has established on the rock of Peter and on the apostles and their successors. To be convinced of that, to have a certainty there. Tell me, how is that the enemy? We don't have to hide from the fact that the Church is both holy and human. We don't have to hide from the fact that the Church is both glorious and messy. We also don't have to be shocked by that. You don't have to be scandalized by that. What we get to do is we get to look at our own hearts and say, okay, Lord, I am a member of your church and I am a reflection of the rest of the church because your Holy Spirit, I am holy because of my sins. I am fallen and yet I am still yours. And the Church is no different. Holy, broken, messy. But it is still the church that Jesus Christ himself established and continues to guide by the power of his Holy Spirit. And to have that certainty, to walk in that certitude, to live in that faith, I think that's a good way to live. Anyways, from all of us here at Essential Presents, my name is Father Miken. God bless.