Summary4 min read

Podcast Summary: How to Get Better Friends

Podcast: The Fr. Mike Schmitz Catholic Podcast
Host: Ascension (Fr. Mike Schmitz)
Episode Date: October 16, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Fr. Mike Schmitz reflects on the challenge of building authentic friendships in the modern world, drawing from personal experiences and classical wisdom, particularly Aristotle’s three types of friendship. The episode aims to help listeners evaluate their own relationships and pursue deeper, virtuous friendships that can profoundly enrich their lives and faith.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Friendlessness Crisis (00:18)

Fr. Mike opens with a relatable anecdote from his childhood about being encouraged by his mom to make friends, highlighting how nowadays it feels much harder to form meaningful connections.
He labels the present situation as a “crisis in friendlessness,” noting how common it is to feel surrounded by people yet remain lonely.

Aristotle’s Three Kinds of Friendship (01:10)

Fr. Mike introduces Aristotle’s classic categories—utility, pleasure, and virtue—to frame the discussion:

1. Friendships of Utility

Definition: Relationships based on mutual usefulness; often formed in work or team environments.
Examples: Office friends, project partners, teammates.
Value: Not “bad,” but typically lack emotional depth.
Quote:

“You spend time together because it helps you accomplish something...not that deep. Always.” (02:11)

2. Pleasant Friendships

Definition: Connections where people simply enjoy each other’s company, often based on shared interests.
Examples: Friends for hobbies, group hangouts, casual get-togethers.
Value: “Actually pretty dang good,” yet may still leave a deeper longing.
Quote:

“We get together and we just enjoy each other's presence. Nothing wrong with that.” (03:35)

3. Virtuous Friendships

Definition: Bonds rooted in shared pursuit of goodness or virtue, not just utility or pleasure.
Characteristics: Go beyond utility and enjoyment—focus on mutual growth, shared worldview, and striving for something greater.
Quote:

“There's this new level of we see the world in the same way...you probably help each other pursue that thing bigger than yourselves.” (05:11)

Personal Story: Friendship with Nick (06:00)

Fr. Mike shares the evolution of his friendship with Nick Davidson, illustrating Aristotle’s framework:
- Began as a “useful” connection (Nick sought religious guidance).
- Grew through shared work (youth ministry).
- Became “pleasant” with social visits.
- Evolved into a “virtuous” friendship—shared desire to serve Christ and others, even across continents.
Memorable Moment:

“Even if we’re not in the same space, I find that I’m still inspired to pursue the good because of my friendship with him...that is the virtue that we both want to help each other achieve.” (08:32)
Nick now lives in Cambodia as a missionary, yet the virtuous connection persists and inspires both men, regardless of distance.

Virtuous Friendships Rooted in Christ (09:18)

Aristotle and Christian writers alike view virtuous friendships as deeply fulfilling for the heart.
These friendships offer mutual knowledge, acceptance, and a shared pursuit of God or a greater good.
Quote:

“We’re known as we are and chosen as we are...but then it's not about the relationship, it’s about the pursuit, going side by side after something bigger than oneself.” (09:34)

Practical Application: Finding and Building Virtuous Friendships (10:28)

Fr. Mike challenges listeners to reflect: Do I have any virtuous friendships?
Encourages starting with people you know through work (utility) or shared interests (pleasure), and exploring whether there’s a common pursuit of goodness or a shared worldview.
Suggests that appreciating others for their character, even when they aren't particularly useful or always pleasant, is the basis for truly virtuous friendships.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Depth of Virtuous Friendship:

“You want to bring Jesus to people, and you want to bring people to Jesus. And even if I'm not working with you on that, I also want to bring Jesus to people and people to Jesus.” (07:42)
A Litmus Test for Friendship:

“Even if they were not useful to you at all...I like their character. And they could say the same thing about you.” (10:52)

Important Timestamps

00:18 – Recognizing the friendlessness crisis
01:10 – Introduction of Aristotle’s three kinds of friendship
03:35 – Value and limits of pleasant friendships
05:11 – Transition to virtuous friendships
06:00 – Story about Nick and developing friendship
08:32 – Inspiration found in virtuous friendship
09:18 – Fulfillment in friendships rooted in Christ
10:28 – Practical reflection and application for listeners

Final Takeaway

Fr. Mike encourages listeners to reflect honestly on the nature of their friendships. Start with utility or pleasant friendships, but seek out and nurture those rare, virtuous connections—especially those anchored in a shared, faith-driven pursuit of goodness. These friendships not only meet our hearts’ deepest longings but also propel us ever closer to Christ.

“That friendship that you could ultimately say is virtuous friendship.” (11:16)

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[00:00]
A
And my mom had said, hey, there's a boy who you're going to be in the same class with. Here's his address. You should go down and say hi. And I walked off by myself, which I was pretty brave. Five year old, whatever, six year old. I rang the doorbell and Peter came to the door. I was like, hi, my name is Mike. My mom says we should be friends. Hi, my name is Father Mike Schmitz. And this is Ascension Presents. We have a kind of a crisis in friendlessness. You know how hard it is to make friends these days? I mean, just really how hard it is. You don't just knock on someone's door, hey, can we be friends? My mom says we should be friends. That doesn't really happen a lot of times. What it we have, you know, similar interests or we just, again, as I said, happen to work together. You know, it was Aristotle who, a number of years ago, when Aristotle was alive, he actually categorized kinds of friendship. He actually, he categorized three kinds of friendship. He said, there are friendships of utility. There are useful friendships. There are friendships of pleasure, essentially, or pleasant friendships. And then there's this third kind, friendships that are rooted in virtue. Those are the kind of friendships that when we talk about having a best friend, typically we're thinking of that. But a lot of us spend a lot of time with friendships of utility. And friendships that are pleasant friendships, those aren't bad. So a friendship of utility is, you know, I don't know, you're working on a project together, you're on the same team, on the same sports team, maybe in high school or something, maybe college, that kind of thing, you work together. So in the office, these are your office friends. And you spend time together because it helps you accomplish something. And so they're friendships of utility. And again, those aren't bad. But when we experience this, this, you know, ache or this hollowness or this kind of like, I want more, though. But I have a bunch of people in my life. Like you would think that I'm around people all day. I go to the office or I go to wherever it is you work. And I have these, these pals, I have these buddies, I have these friends. But there's not a friendship that touches my heart or, or that's friendships of utility, right? Useful friendships. Not bad. Just not that deep. Always. Then we have pleasant friendships, right? Friendships where we just simply enjoy each other's company. Once again, not bad. Actually pretty dang good. These are your buddies. You love hanging out together. Maybe you have the same interests, like we all like the Renaissance Festival, going on roller coasters, playing pickup basketball on the weekends or whatever. The thing is, those are your pleasant friendships. Maybe not even that. Maybe just, hey, we all like hanging out. We get together and we just talk. We get together and we just enjoy each other's presence. Nothing wrong with that. That is pleasant friendships. But just like useful friendships, sometimes we can think, like, okay, I've got a lot of buddies. I've got a lot of pals. I've got a lot of people in my life, but do I have that best friend with whom I can share my heart, with whom I can. That just. They kind of, like, get me in a deeper way, if that makes sense. Or I get them in a deeper way. That's why we have the third kind of friendship Aristotle would describe as virtuous friendship. And virtuous friendship. Sure. It could start as friendships of utility, you know, at work or on a sports team, that you're, like, spending time working together on a project or working together. It could start as even pleasant friendships, where it's like, hey, we kind of. We like each other, we get along, but at some point it becomes about something more. It becomes about more than just the usefulness of this. Like, we work together, and it also becomes about more than just we enjoy spending time together. But there's this. This new level of we see the world in the same way. You have the same worldview. And the worldview is one where you're both pursuing something bigger than yourselves in that you probably enjoy each other's presence while you're pursuing something bigger than yourselves, in that you probably help each other pursue that thing bigger than yourselves. But it's not just about that enjoyment. It's not just about that usefulness. It's about that pursuit. And I can say this. I've had a lot of really good friends, but it wasn't until I met my friend Nick that I understood in a. In a new way what that virtuous friendship could look like. When I first met Nick, he was interested in learning about the Catholic Church. So I was the priest he was talking with with he and his wife. So it was very useful. We hung out with each other. It was useful. And then he got hired as a youth minister. And so we often found ourselves kind of working side by side, shoulder to shoulder to come up with different ministry ideas and ways to reach the youth and whatnot. And so that, again, useful friendship found. I remember the first time I was invited over to he and Jason's house. I had to Invite my sister and her fiance. Because I was like, I don't want to go there by myself. Like, this is a couple I've been kind of working with, but I don't know if I want to be in a social situation with them. And then got to the social situation and it was like, oh, this is really fun. So it was useful at first and it became pleasant. And then I remembered there was. There was a switch where it was one of those things where, oh, I'm not just here to help you. So it's not just you utility. And I'm not. We're not just here because we like hanging out. It's not just pleasant. You want to bring Jesus to people, and you want to bring people to Jesus. And even if I'm not working with you on that, I also want to bring Jesus to people and people to Jesus. And even though right now he is with his family in Cambodia, they are a missionary family, they're in Cambodia, and they are doing their best to bring the gospel of Jesus Christ in the Catholic Church to the people of Cambodia. If you're interested in more about his stuff, it's Nick Davidson, just look him up. But even if we're not in the same space, I find that I'm still inspired to pursue the good because of my friendship with him, and hopefully he's inspired to continue to pursue the good because of his friendship with me. That there is a certain we'll help each other, like usefulness. And there is a sense of, of course, enjoy each other, like, pleasant. But there's something bigger than that. And that is the virtue that we both want to help each other achieve. And there's something about this that Aristotle and other later even Christian writers would say, that's the kind of friendship that. That meets our heart and feeds our heart more than friendships of utility or pleasant friendships. We're known as we are and chosen as we are, and we know the other one as they are and choose them as they are. But then it's not about the relationship, it's about the pursuit, going side by side after something bigger than oneself. And so if you were to say, well, I don't have a virtuous friendship, well, are there any people that, you know, you are in each other's presence out of usefulness, or any people that you really enjoy spending time with them, you know, and you just enjoy each other's company, but you also find yourselves sharing the same pursuits, sharing the same worldview, sharing the same goal, and you just like, even if they were not useful to you at all. He's like, I really like them. And even though they're not even pleasant to be around, you're like, no, I like who they are. I like their character. And they could say the same thing about you. I think that's a really good start to having that. That. That friendship rooted in Christ. That friendship that you could ultimately say is virtuous friendship. Anyways, that's a little lesson from Aristotle and little insight into some of my friends over the course of my life. Anyways, from all this here to sense presents, My name is Father Mike. God bless.