Summary5 min read

Podcast Summary: "Sin, Emotions and Virtue Explained"

The Fr. Mike Schmitz Catholic Podcast
Host: Ascension
Guest: Fr. Mike Schmitz
Original Air Date: November 6, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Fr. Mike Schmitz unpacks the relationship between sin, emotions, and virtue, challenging common misconceptions about the moral weight of our feelings. Using examples from music, C.S. Lewis, and everyday life, Fr. Mike clarifies how virtue and sin are rooted not in what we feel, but in how we choose to act. He aims to encourage listeners who may feel guilty about unwanted emotions, emphasizing the freedom and responsibility of the human will.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Role of Emotions in Moral Life

Opening Analogy: Fr. Mike references the classic song “Feelings” to introduce how much emphasis people place on their feelings ([00:00]).
Childhood reflection: Even as a child, Fr. Mike found it fascinating how much attention was paid to feelings.
Core point: People often judge their goodness or sinfulness by the presence of certain feelings or desires.

“We judge ourselves off our emotions...when I have an emotion or attraction or a desire towards something bad, we think, ‘oh my gosh, I’ve sinned.’ Or...towards something good...‘I’m a good person.’ Neither of those are entirely true.”
— Fr. Mike [01:01]

2. Emotions vs. Will: Where Sin Resides

The Nature of Emotions: Emotions don’t always correspond to reality; you can know the truth and still feel fear, anger, or desire ([01:40]).
C.S. Lewis Example: Even with rational certainty, one might feel terror about “ghosts”—showing the separation between knowledge and emotion.
Emotions are neutral: Neither inherently good nor bad; “the fact that I have a particular desire is neither virtuous or vicious. It just is.” ([02:15])
Sin’s true location:

“Sin does not reside in the emotions...It resides in the will.”
— Fr. Mike [02:43]
It’s about what you choose to do with your feelings, not the feelings themselves.

3. Self-Examination and Emotions

Anger, lust, envy: Experiencing these feelings doesn’t make you sinful; what matters is your response ([03:05]).
Emotions as indicators: They can be helpful signs (“Maybe I need some help”), but not definitive judgments of your soul.
Righteous vs. Self-righteous anger: Discern if an emotion points to something just ([03:38]).

"I can examine that emotion and say, wow, I’m really angry towards this. Is that just, or is it unjust? Is it righteous anger or is it self righteous anger?”
— Fr. Mike [03:30]

4. The Will is Where Morality Lies

Repeated encouragement: Listeners are reassured that guilt over having a feeling is misplaced ([04:28]).
C.S. Lewis on Instinct: Not all instincts towards aggression are always wrong, nor is motherly love always right; context and the will matter ([05:00]).

“There are times where the instinct towards aggression...no, that’s the right thing to do. If someone’s attacking your family...Also, mother love is not always right. There are times when a mother would have to say, no, there is a bigger thing at play.”
— Fr. Mike [05:06]

5. Virtue Doesn’t Reside in Emotions Either

Common misconception: Feeling compassion or sorrow at suffering doesn’t make you a good person—it’s what you do that counts ([06:50]).
Parallel Structure: If sin doesn’t abide in the emotions, neither does virtue. Both “reside, come from the will” ([07:13]).
Examples: Attraction to justice, concern for others, desire to pray—all commendable, but only action constitutes virtue.

“It’s not enough for us. Just like an attraction to a sin...is not sin. An attraction towards compassion...is not virtue. It’s what we do with it.”
— Fr. Mike [07:37]

6. Moving from Feeling to Action

Don’t condemn or praise yourself for feelings alone: Both negative and positive emotions are not the core of moral status ([08:08]).
Action as the key: Taking concrete steps—acting with compassion, choosing right over wrong—is where virtue is developed ([08:40]).
Practical advice: When moved by love for God, don’t just feel—pray, act ([09:15]).
Heroes and Saints: It’s their choices—not their feelings—that define them ([09:43]).

“Villains are made not in their emotions, they’re made in their choices. And heroes or saints are not made because they have the right feelings...Saints are made with each small choice.”
— Fr. Mike [09:43]
The role of grace: All virtue and victory over sin are done “with the grace that comes to us through the great cross of our great Lord Jesus Christ.” ([10:07])

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

“Sin does not lie in your emotions...Sin resides in our will and what we actually choose to do with that thing.” — Fr. Mike [03:11]
“Virtue also does not abide in the emotions. Just like sin... virtue comes from, abides in the will.” — Fr. Mike [07:14]
“We can neither condemn ourselves for feeling a certain way, nor can we ever praise ourselves for feeling a certain way.” — Fr. Mike [08:10]
“Villains are made not in their emotions, they’re made in their choices. And heroes or saints are not made because they have the right feelings...Saints are made with each small choice.” — Fr. Mike [09:43]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Topic | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | The role of feelings in self-judgment | | 01:40 | Difference between knowledge and emotion | | 02:43 | Sin and emotions: where sin "resides" | | 03:05 | Anger, lust, envy: feelings versus choices | | 05:00 | C.S. Lewis on instincts and context | | 06:50 | Why compassion doesn’t equal virtue | | 07:13 | Both sin and virtue reside in the will | | 08:40 | Action as the realization of virtue | | 09:43 | Saints and villains: choices, not emotions | | 10:07 | The role of grace in pursuing virtue |

Final Takeaways

Fr. Mike Schmitz’s message throughout the episode: Don’t be discouraged or prideful based on your feelings. Instead, recognize that both sin and virtue are rooted in your choices, empowered by grace.
Your task is to take responsibility for your will—what you choose to do next—regardless of your internal feelings. This path is where saints are made and the Christian life is truly lived.

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[00:00]
A
There was a song back in the day. All I remember of the song is the word feelings. Nothing more than feelings. Right? Feelings. Nothing more than feelings. Even as a kid, like, you know, feelings. Nothing more than feelings. That's all this is. And I think that's really fascinating. Why? Because. Hi, my name is Father Mike Schmitz, and this is Ascension presents once again. The Christmas tree is still here because we're still filming for the Advent program coming up. I'm very excited about it. It's called Waiting. Well, and we are waiting for it. I think a lot of times we judge ourselves off our emotions. We think like, when I have an emotion or attraction or a desire towards something bad, we think, oh my gosh, I've sinned. Or if we have a desire or emotion or feeling towards something that's good, or like noble, we think, oh, I'm good person. Neither of those are entirely true. Of course. We want to be so well integrated that our emotions are always corresponding with external reality. That. That would be great. That'd be amazing. But we also know this. We also know that that's not really how emotions work. C.S. lewis wrote about this man, how many times I quote C.S. lewis. C.S. lewis wrote about this. He said, you could be absolutely convinced that there's no ghost in the room. But if I have that sense of, like, there's someone here, I have. I'm filled with terror. I can know something is true and still have an emotion. The great thing is emotions are neither bad nor good. The fact that I have a particular desire is neither virtuous or vicious. It just is. So here's. Let's. Let's go back to this. Because why? Because sin does not reside in the emotions. So here I am and I. I have a, what, an angry thought or angry emotion? Let's. Angry emotion, let's stick here. Or I have a lustful emotion, or I have a greedy emotion. Like, I desire this thing. I desire what someone else has, or I desire what someone else is. I desire someone else physically, whatever those things are. Sometimes we can think like, oh my gosh, like, look at me, look at me like a wretch or something. Look at me, a horrible person. Look at. Well, pause. Yes, of course, our emotions could be an indicator that we need some help. Like, right. The fact that I can. I can examine that emotion and say, wow, I'm really angry towards this. Is that just. Or is it unjust? Is it righteous anger or is it self righteous anger? Right. That's a big difference. I can pay attention to that. And I can say, okay, God, yeah, I think I need to act on this and do something with it. Or, God, you're asking me to call upon your grace, call upon your name, and asking for you to do something with this. Because why? We. We know that sin does not reside in the emotions. It resides in the will. It's paying attention to, okay, here's how I feel, here's what I desire, here's what my emotion is. Now the big question is, what am I going to do with it, right? Because sin does not reside in the emotions. Sin resides in the will. Hopefully this is an encouragement for so many people that I talk to who say, like, I have this feeling, I have this desire, I have this emotion, and now I'm guilty, now I'm sinful. That's not true. Why? Because sin does not lie in your emotions, does not reside in your desires. Sin resides in our will and what we actually choose to do with that thing. Why? Again, C.S. lewis writes about this. He says some people would say that the instinct towards violence is always wrong and the instinct towards mother love, the mother's love for a child is always right. And he would say, neither of those are always right or always wrong. He says there are times where the instinct towards aggression, this is towards being, you know, aggressive. There to actually, no, that's the right thing to do. If someone's attacking your family, it very well could be that the instinct towards aggression is good. Also, mother love is not always right. There are times when a mother would have to say, no, there is a bigger thing at play. I can't just rely on the fact that I'd like to protect my child. There could be, I need to let my child go to jail or whatever. The thing is, right, emotions are never always right or always wrong. There's no such things as good or bad emotions. Because sin does not abide in the emotions it resides or abides, comes from the will. What do I choose to do with this? Take that in. Especially if you're someone who says, man, I recognize so often I feel a certain way and I. So I always feel like I'm sinning. That's not necessarily the case. Why? Because sin abides, resides, originates from the will, not the emotions. On the other hand, we sometimes can say, well, you know, when I feel very compassionate, when I see someone suffering, that's great. That doesn't mean you're a good person. No offense. When I think about the hungry, or I think about the homeless, or I think about those who everyone else forgets and I think about them. I'm overwhelmed by the sense of, like, someone should do something. And now I convince myself that means I'm a good person. When I see injustice and I have the proper emotion, then I can think like, yeah, I'm a just person. Remember though, if sin doesn't abide in the emotions, virtue also does not abide in the emotions. Just like sin, sin resides, comes from the will. Virtue comes from abides in the will. It's not just that sense of I see what's good and I have an attraction towards it, or I see something evil and I hate it. It's what do I do with it? Do I actually pursue the good? Do I actually do what I can to make it so that this relationship is reconciled, to make it so that this person is restored, to make it so that those who are forgotten are not forgotten. It's not enough for us. Just like. Just like an attraction to a sin, a desire for a sin, a feeling or motion towards a sin, is not sin. An attraction towards compassion, an attraction towards generosity, an attraction towards justice is not virtue. It's what we do with it. We can neither condemn ourselves for feeling a certain way, nor can we ever praise ourselves for feeling a certain way. This is just something we have to get past. Seeing injustice and feeling aggrieved does not make me a good person. Seeing someone who is in need and feeling compassion does not make me a good person. It's acting on that. When I have a feeling, a desire, or an emotion that leads me towards something I know is evil, let me just begin to say, okay, I'm going to choose the right. I'm not going to choose the wrong, not going to choose the sin, even if I'm drawn towards it simultaneously. When I am moved with compassion, when I am filled with concern for my neighbor, what's one step I can take in that right direction? I'm overwhelmed by a love of God that doesn't mean anything unless I act on that. I might have these great thoughts of, like, I know I should do, I should pray. Hmm. I'm just gonna feel that way, like, as opposed to, okay, then pray. Okay, now you've begun to exercise virtue, not just kind of abide in this world of emotion or feeling or desire. We might say villains. We can say villains. Villains are made not in their emotions, they're made in their choices. And heroes or saints are not made because they have the right feelings or the right emotions or the right desires. Saints are made with each small choice. We fight against sin, we fight for virtue. And we always, always, always fight with the grace that comes to us through the great cross of our great Lord Jesus Christ. Anyways. Marvelous. Here at Ascension presents, my name is Father Mike God.