2025 Wrapped: EV Myths, Dream Cars & 2026 Predictions!

Summary

Everything Electric Podcast – “2025 Wrapped: EV Myths, Dream Cars & 2026 Predictions!”

Hosted by Robert Llewellyn, Imogen Pierce & Jack Scarlett | December 22, 2025

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Episode Overview

The final Everything Electric podcast episode of 2025 brings together hosts Robert Llewellyn, Imogen Pierce, and Jack Scarlett for a lively year-in-review and forward-looking discussion. The trio reflect on the big stories, technological leaps, industry trends, favorite reviews, and memorable shoots of 2025—debunking persistent EV myths, sharing dream garage ambitions, and making bold predictions for 2026. Packed with data, personal stories, and the show’s characteristic wit, the episode offers both sober perspective and optimistic energy about the future of electrification and sustainability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. 2025 Global EV Growth: Facts vs. Myths

Stats & Narrative Realignment:

• Robert dispels negative headlines about EV sales declining:
  • “There’s been a lot of, you know, ‘sales of EVs dive off a cliff’ and it’s all coming to an end… but in October there were 1.9 million plug-in vehicles sold worldwide.” (03:09)
  • BEVs (Battery Electric Vehicles) are up 19% YoY; PHEVs down 5% globally (04:00)
• International markets booming:
  • Europe BEVs up 38%, Vietnam +117%, India +98%, Indonesia +101%, Turkey +157% (04:42)
  • Chinese dominance: “Of the top 10 best-sellers, seven are Chinese brands, with BYD leading and Tesla second, but a long way behind.” (05:37)

Quote:

“It’s always important to remind people: when it says momentum is slowing down, it doesn’t mean we’re returning them. It’s growing still, just not at the same rate all the time.” – Jack Scarlett (07:00)

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2. Dream Cars & Electric Favourites of 2025

Hosts’ Picks (Magic Money Tree Edition):

• Jack:
  • Hyundai Ioniq 6N (“childish, absolute lunacy turned up a few notches”), new BMW i3 coming next year, second-hand Porsche Taycan for value (08:32-09:35)
• Imogen:
  • Loves her Hyundai Ioniq 5, flirted with Mercedes G-Wagon (“people look at you like they hate you, and yet it was very fun”), but in fantasy-land would pick the Kia EV9—“adore the EV9… but it’s not justifiable in any way.” (10:05-11:09)
• Robert:
  • In love with the Polestar 2 and eyeing the upcoming Polestar 5:

    “It wasn’t just like extreme engineering… it’s so beautiful. I have near zero aesthetic sense with cars and I saw that one—oh, that is an amazing-looking car!” (12:17-13:47)

  • Admits: “I’d be a tragic old man in a sports car—but you can almost get away with it!” (13:53)

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3. Notable Reviews & Shoots of 2025

Standout Episodes & Behind-the-Scenes:

• Jack:
  • Microlino convertible in Portofino (16:09) – showcasing production team’s skill.
  • BMW iX3 & Kia PV5 both “game-changing” for European industry comeback and commercial EV space (17:27-19:54):

    “The iX3, they’ve completely reinvented their design language… genuinely skipped a generation of car.”
    “PV5: It costs something like £20,000 less than a spec’d VW ID Buzz. The commercial space has a hero car.”

• Imogen:
  • Namibia solar-powered safari boat trip (28:53-30:05): A privilege to see the tech’s real-world impact on conservation.

    “It’s a good reminder why we spend so much time and energy wanging on about the benefits of clean energy.” (29:55)

  • Vancouver’s Site C Dam and new lithium refining methods (27:03)
  • Cherry farm in New Zealand running entirely on solar, a YouTube comment suggestion (30:41-33:02):

    “He wants to prove to other farmers that this is a more cost-effective way to run a farm.”

• Robert:
  • Test drives: Polestar 5 (“extraordinarily impressive”), new Nissan Leaf (“a leap in tech and software”)—original Leaf now at 90,000 miles and still running (20:27-22:43)
  • Shipyard in Hobart: Electric, all-aluminum catamaran ferry with “batteries lighter and smaller than diesel engines.” (33:30-36:19)

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4. Live Shows & Panels: Turning Points & Memorable Moments

• Sydney 2025:
  • Sunday crowd not the typical “EV fans”—families, much broader demographic, signaling mass market shift (38:22-40:47):

    “No one looked at me twice. This felt completely different… it was what we need to happen.” – Robert (39:35)

• Melbourne:
  • Jack hosts panel with Claire Walter, air pollution expert:

    “When she started talking about her subject, it was hard to talk about anything else… a bucket of cold water, a powerful reminder of why these things are important.” (41:19-44:20)

  • The need to return to “hardcore facts” and the basics—clean air, health, child mortality—despite the tech focus (45:10-46:17)

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5. 2026 Predictions & Big Trends

Jack’s Macro Trends for 2026 (46:43-50:00):

• “Big year for British automotive”—New electric Jaguar, Range Rover, maybe Caterham.
• More small, affordable EVs at the £20–25k price point: “Too many good cars at 30 grand. Now it’s about 25,000.”
• “Big year for Japan”—Nissan leading electric launches, rest of the sector accelerating.
• Cars “getting more interesting”—after years of just platform & software overhauls, brands will rediscover design/lifestyle fun.

“I don’t want cars to just become sterile boxes that get us from A to B. I want them to be interesting, desirable, and improve your day when you get in them.” – Jack (49:25)

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Robert’s Hopeful Prediction:

• The long-awaited dawn of Vehicle-to-Grid (V2G):

  “The fact that you can finally… sell some electricity when you’re not using your car…I know will click a switch in people who aren't interested in EVs… That’s three large nuclear power plants we’ve got, switched on like that.” (50:30-52:27)

• Octopus/BYD V2G lease deal “will be a real paradigm shift.” (52:27-53:22)

Imogen:

• Echoes the importance of V2G and the critical role of making tech “convenient, cost-effective, or more comfortable” for mass adoption. (53:22)

Cost of Clean Energy (Robert):

• Game-changing stat:

  “Solar plus batteries, globally, is now cheaper than every other way to produce electricity—$65/MWh, cheaper than gas, coal, hydro, wind.” (55:04-56:46)

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6. Optimism, Community, and Closing Thoughts

• Robert urges focus on “lumps of hope and positivity”—amazing people, inspiring projects, genuine momentum override the doom in mainstream media (59:03).
• Imogen highlights the duty of the show to shine a light on “incredible people” on panels and in the field, whose energy keeps them motivated (59:55).
• Jack: “It’s the people we meet in this job and the stuff they’re doing that keeps us going, in the face of endless pessimistic and often inaccurate press.” (60:31)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Robert: “It’s so beautiful. I have, as you know Jack, near zero aesthetic sense – and I saw [the Polestar 5] and thought ‘that is an amazing looking car'.” (13:10)
• Jack: “Do you like not spending money? Do you like being given money? …They’re staring down the barrel of a future where they’re not driving for free, they’re getting paid to own these electric cars!” (53:22)
• Imogen: “It is a good reminder of why we spend so much time and effort and energy wanging on about the benefits of clean energy.” (29:55)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:09 — Robert dispels “EV downturn” media myths with global sales stats
• 08:29 — Dream garage: hosts’ fantasy EV picks
• 16:17 — Noteworthy shoots: Microlino, BMW iX3, Kia PV5, maving motorcycle, new Nissan Leaf
• 28:53 — Imogen’s Namibia solar safari, Vancouver, Cherry Tree Farm adventures
• 38:22 — Sydney live show: mainstream electrification arrives
• 41:19 — Melbourne panel: Jack’s “sobering” lesson on air pollution, health, and policy
• 46:43 — Jack’s macro trends and 2026 predictions
• 50:30 — Robert’s excitement for V2G and its societal impact
• 55:04 — Solar+Battery economics reach tipping point
• 59:03 — Final reflections: optimism, inspiration, gratitude

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Podcast Tone

The conversation is friendly, personal, witty, and optimistic—even when addressing tough realities. The hosts balance technical details, practical experiences, and a dash of irreverent British humor, all while aiming to inspire listeners and dispel EV myths through facts and real stories.

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Summary Value

Rich in data, global perspectives, industry trends, and personal takeaways—as well as honest sobering reminders about the stakes—this episode is an accessible, hopeful, and comprehensive wrap-up for EV enthusiasts and newcomers alike, providing a clear window into the state of the electric vehicle movement at the end of 2025 and where it’s heading next.

Transcript

[Robert Llewellyn]

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[Imogen Pierce]

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Everything Electric podcast. In fact the last one of the year. So we've got a pretty special episode because I am joined of course by Robert Llewellyn and Jack Scarlett and we're going to have a little, little wandering mystery Tour through our 2025 and share with you some of the highs, some the of some of the lows. Mainly the highs, I think. Yes, yeah, yeah, but all of that to come. But first a very quick advert break. Our three free YouTube channels on EVs and clean energy tech are funded by our fun packed test drivetastic events in the north west and Greater London and our events down under. Next up, Everything Electric Sydney 2026 plus check out EverythingElectric store for merch and much more. Well, it is lovely to see you this. Well we're recording this Tuesday morning for me and Jack. Tuesday evening for you, Robert.

[Robert Llewellyn]

That's correct. Yes. It's a lovely day, Tuesday. I know what happens. Yeah, it's all lovely. Everyone's lovely and everything gets better all day.

[Imogen Pierce]

It is always so funny having conversations with people when it's the start of your day and the end of their day. You can, you can tell immediately who's, who's just got up and who's just about to go to bed.

[Jack Scarlett]

Yes.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Although it's not that late here. It's only just gone six o' clock in the evening, so it's quite, quite respectable.

[Imogen Pierce]

Not even tea time?

[Robert Llewellyn]

No. Well, in fact my supper is being bought for me. Apparently. I've had a message. Oh, I don't know what that means yet.

[Imogen Pierce]

Well, we wanted to use this podcast as a bit of an opportunity to look back on some of the moments of 2025. And we were just sort of busy chatting before we started clicking record and I think it was probably worth us kicking off with reflecting on this key headline stats when it comes to electrification. I know that Robert, you've got some of these up your sleeve.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yes, I do have some stats. Well, I just. Because the, you know, there has been a lot of, you know, sales of EVs dive off a cliff and it's all coming to an end and everything's awful. And also, you know, the things that like the European Union have sort of basically abandoned their attempts to end internal combustion sales. America has, you know, gone extremely anti electric vehicles sort of, although it's not exactly clear if they have but global EV sales. I got this information from Clean Technica because I was. Well, I did a podcast with Scott recently from Clean Technica and he's very, he's very optimistic. But what it was interesting or just in October. So if we think, you know, global EV sales are down. Well, in October there were 1.9 million plug in vehicles sold worldwide.

[Jack Scarlett]

But.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And everyone goes, yeah, but that includes PHEVs. Interestingly, battery electric vehicles are up 19% year on year and PHEV sales globally is down 5%. Which kind of gives you a hint that not everybody's convinced that a plug in hybrid is the way to go. As in then, you know, they're more interested in. But, but you know, I've also, it breaks it down to sales around the world. So in Europe this is, this is, and this is bevs. This is literally electric vehicles, not plug in hybrids. In Europe it's up 38 year on year. The rest of the world is 35% year on year. Vietnam, I love this figure. 117% increase this year. India, 98% increase. Indonesia 101% increase and Turkey 157% increase. And I sort of don't even think about Turkey and electric vehicles. But clearly I'm an idiot.

[Jack Scarlett]

I should do.

[Robert Llewellyn]

You know, I'm sort of aware about India, Vietnam, you know, a little bit more. Indonesia. Yes, hello. And then plug in hybrid sales in China really distinctly down. And then the best selling global electric vehicle, it was the Wuling Mini ev. It's got another Chinese name. Do you know it, Jack? It's basically the Wuling Mini, but it has some other name as well.

[Jack Scarlett]

I know it only as that name. That's the adorable little shopping trolley that Elliot reviewed for a couple of years.

[Robert Llewellyn]

But that's still going strong. It outsold the Tesla Model Y in October, I guess in China, I suppose that really is. But the Model Y is still the best selling car for the whole of 2025, but with the B, with the BYD seal second, which is extraordinary. I'm surprised at that one. But then in terms of brand sales, BYD just. The graph is crazy. Miles ahead of everyone else. They're just complete. They are the biggest electric vehicle manufacturers in history. And Tesla a second, but a long way behind. And then out of the top 10 best selling electric vehicle manufacturing brands, out of those 10, seven are Chinese companies.

[Imogen Pierce]

The thing is, it's that it's not, it's not surprising information to us because we cover a lot of the Chinese EVs. We've been wanging on about the benefits of electric vehicles. But, but if, certainly if you were to read certain media outlets, you'd be like, what?

[Robert Llewellyn]

No, everyone's just throwing them away. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jack Scarlett]

In fairness, with regard to the Chinese stuff, even just anecdotally, if you went by what you're seeing on UK roads, I think it's probably fair to say that the Chinese brands are having a slightly harder time of it than perhaps they first anticipated. Two years ago, we were talking about this tidal wave of Chinese stuff that was about to land on our shores and just consume the entire auto industry. And it hasn't quite happened that way. But when you look at brands like byd, it's useful to remember just how many cars they are flogging globally and the might they have behind them. Like, they'll hang in there, they'll figure it out, they'll crack the UK market before long. And actually the rate at which the product is improving and being refined for the European palate is really striking. But just to your sort of general stats on growth globally, Bobby, the thing that I'm always at pains to remind people when they hear this rhetoric around, oh, it's all slowing down the EV momentum. People aren't giving them back. Right. People aren't giving their electric cars back. It's just uptake is not happening in a linear way. I think it's always a very important key mathematical thing to remind people. When it says momentum is slowing down, it doesn't mean we're returning them. It's growing still, just not at the same rate all the time.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pierce]

Although Talking of giving EVs back, I know that your Polestar 2, I think, is coming to the end of its lease term. And you, I would say, are probably have done the most amount of market research compared to maybe anyone else in terms of what electric vehicles are coming, which ones might be your favorite ones. So based on what you have driven this year, and if there was a magic money tree, what would you go for?

[Robert Llewellyn]

Gosh, it's so difficult.

[Jack Scarlett]

Yeah, okay. So I thought, jeez, okay, so money, not an object. I think the two that spring to mind are the new Ionic 6N, because it's childish and I'm a child. It's like the Ionic 5N, but they've just dialed the sort of absolute lunacy up a few notches. That's fabulous. The thing I'm really excited for next year is the new BMW i3 that will share its platform with the new iX3. That's a car I'm definitely going to talk to you about later when we talk about most important cars of the year. Right. So I'd say one of those with my semi sensible hat on. Semi sensible Renault 5 is just the correct answer for basically everyone. Slightly less semi sensible answer, second hand Taycan, because there are second hand early Porsche Taycans going now for the price of the options that they are fitted with, which has got to hurt for someone. But it's very tasty looking for me, it wasn't that sensible at all, was it?

[Imogen Pierce]

No. Do you know what, though? It is only sensible based on the fact that they're selling for such reasonable prices. And I've definitely been guilty of going on auto trade and being like, well, hypothetically, if there was one under this amount, then that's potentially a really sensible option. And then you just start notching up that little price thing and you suddenly you're like, yeah, 60 grand.

[Jack Scarlett]

Giving them away. What about you? How long have you got? You're still in your ionic 5. Are you still very happy with it? What would you go to next?

[Imogen Pierce]

I am very happy with it. It's had a little, a few, little bumps with a few little bollards, so there's a bit more yellow paint on it than I would care to admit, but I do love it. It's. It's highly, highly practical. I've spoken about this at length in recent podcasts, but I did have the G Wagon recently. It's stupid, it's inefficient, it's, it's expensive. You drive it around and people look at you like they hate you. And yet it was very fun. But no, I think the sensible choice, if I didn't live in a Victorian terraced house, would be a key EV9 and I know we preach about the benefits of small, affordable, lightweight vehicles, but this is in the magic money situation. And I just adore the EV9. I think it's great. Yeah.

[Jack Scarlett]

You have no children and two tiny dogs. What are you going to do with your third row of seats?

[Imogen Pierce]

This is it. It's not justifiable in any way. And the only thing I can caveat is that got a huge husband and he has enormous shoes.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Shoes are vast.

[Imogen Pierce]

Yeah. You know, he's just gotta carry those things around.

[Jack Scarlett]

I mean, look, I'm not here to judge. It makes you feel amazing, that thing. And then the Ioniq 9, of course, the sister car we filmed recently. We've got to get you in one of those soon. Next year we're going to see the Genesis GV90, which is the Genesis equivalent, sort of Halo SUV. And I think you need to be the person to review that one when it comes along.

[Imogen Pierce]

I hope that still has the. The crystal ball that the GV60 has, because that is. Have you. Have you seen this, Robert? The crystal ball? Yeah.

[Jack Scarlett]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pierce]

It's. So there's a design flaw to it that it's quite cool. And you get in the car and everyone, any of your passengers think, oh, that's cool, because this sort of magical ball just twists and suddenly appears. And that's how you can. I don't know, I think you can. It's your gear selector or your drive selector, but if you touch it with a hand that may have also been in contact with peanut butter, then that peanut butter goes into the abyss. So for that reason, I think I should be banned from that car. I'm a gremlin in the car.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Just quickly, because I've been driving a Polestar 2 here, very generously loaned to me by Polestar in Australia, and I've completely fallen in love with it. It is the most. It's just I. I mean, I've driven them. I think I've driven them here before, but I've done some long journeys in it. And my lovely, very tolerant wife, who has no opinions about electric cars, except she hates most of them. So most of the ones that I get that she goes in, oh, I don't like this for some whatever reason, but she went almost because she. She just loves Teslas. She said they're easy to drive and they don't make me tired and I know how to charge them, which is fair enough, I think, if you're not interested in all that, you know. But she's sort of admitted that the Polestar is very, very close second. I just think it's great. But I think if I was in the magic money tree world and had no shame, I'd be very sorely tempted by the Polestar 5, which is coming out next year, which is. Was. I mean I test drove that at Millbrook and it was, you know, you just go, that is proper extraordinary. It wasn't just like extreme engineering because it goes fast, it does all the things. It's so beautiful. It's such a beautiful looking car. I just thought I, I have, as you know, Jack, very near zero aesthetic sense of motor vehicles. And I literally saw that car. Oh, that is amazing looking car. Immediately it just got me. I don't know what it was about it, but I really. And I love driving that. That was. But I would feel such an tragic old man in sports car. It's not quite. You can almost get away with it because it doesn't look like a Ferrari or a Lambo or anything simply like that. But it's sort of sporty and low.

[Jack Scarlett]

I don't know a fascinating trait about you, Robert, which is I think the sort of the old hip in you is slightly just kind of instinctively anti nice stuff. You like your really, really, really utilitarian economy cars, you love your MG4, lovely stuff in the middle, you're not that interested. But then there's some really high end stuff that gets you going because of course one of my favorite involved you in the Maserati Gran Turismo, which is, I mean it's astronomically expensive, but boy, did you look good in that thing. And I could tell you felt good in it too.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I loved it. I absolutely loved it. Yes, yes. I really. Yes. I'm afraid you've got my number, Jack. That is absolutely right.

[Imogen Pierce]

And that is such a fantastic episode that you both did because the sort of premise was that if you had that amount of money that could afford that kind of car, how else might you spend that money? So you obviously, obviously were in the Maserati and then Jack, you had the electrified DeLorean from electrogenics, which, you know, the obvious cars to compare to each other, I think.

[Jack Scarlett]

Yeah. The joint test that absolutely no one.

[Imogen Pierce]

Asked for and yet we delivered and that is the joy of what we do.

[Jack Scarlett]

Yeah, that was good fun.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pierce]

So talking of car shoots then, what have been some of your other highlights this year?

[Jack Scarlett]

Do you want to go first, Bobby.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Or you go first, Jack? While I'm still thinking.

[Jack Scarlett]

Okay, I've got a couple jotted down that I'll just breeze Through. So first one got to mention we went back to the Microlino. We did their new sort of roadster convertible roofless model. We filmed that just outside of Portofino. Difficult job, difficult day. Um, I love that shoot because it's one of those ones that really flexed the muscles of our production team. It was just me and cameraman Louis, but we had a couple of days where we usually have a couple of hours. And it's just a beautiful video. Go and watch that one if you want to see just how talented our videographers are. I loved the shoots that I got to do with you guys. I love it when we get to co present. So to that Bobby DeLorean versus Maserati was great. That was Imogen, the maving review that we did their new two seater motorcycle which you've bought one. Let's just quickly talk about that.

[Imogen Pierce]

Oh yes. But there is a little bit of a hoo ha. Which basically they've been homologated here in the uk, but I don't think in Europe. So it can't get a registration plate and therefore it is undrivable. So we have purchased one beautiful sculpture. Yeah. So. And they. And we had it on just outside our house and they were like, we can come and collect it until this problem is resolved. And I mean that is like an unfortunate kind of admin error more than anything. But to be fair, I think with a sensible hat on, I was like, I would prefer that we were not driving it in slippy, icy conditions. So maybe it is better to get it in the spring.

[Jack Scarlett]

For motorcycling. It's true. Well, I'm very happy for you anyway. And it's, you know, it's. I think if only people knew how often we come away from shoots really wanting to buy the thing that we just got done with. And that one was so reasonably priced that you actually pulled the trigger. So kudos to you.

[Imogen Pierce]

Oh, well, that was it. Because every single shoot is like, oh yeah, I could have one of these. And it is the only one where I've actually gone away and done it. Yeah. How about you, Robert?

[Robert Llewellyn]

Oh, no, sorry, Jack.

[Jack Scarlett]

Can I just finish my list very quickly because I've missed out on the most important one. So the two cars that we filmed this year that just made my jaw drop were the BMW IX3 and the Kia PV5. I think the thing that I still have that kind of childlike wonder about seeing a new car that no one's ever seen for the first time. And then when you're kind of hit with this barrage of astonishing information about it. The BMW ix3. I came back from that shoot, I needed to lie down for two days because just the volume of incredible information that they'd thrown at us. They've completely reinvented their design language, they've completely reinvented their platform, their software, the handling, the interior design, everything is genuinely skipped. A generation of car. And it feeds into a kind of what I think is going to be one of the big stories of next year and has been one of the big stories of this year, which is sort of Europe. Europe fights back, I guess, is how I would characterize it. I don't want to create a sort of us against them narrative with the European and Chinese auto industry, because we all know that's not how it is. But it's certainly true that the European brands were, in a bit of a moment, a bit of a pickle a year or two ago, because they weren't trying that hard and others were. And what we've seen in the iX3, in the Renault 5 and Twingo, is the European brands really flexing their engineering muscles and innovating in all sorts of ways in order to be competitive on price or on efficiency. And it's been astonishing to see. So I think the ix3 encapsulates that. A lot of people have given it Car of the Year. I don't blame them. Kia PV5, very similar thing. Just one of those cars that you kind of go, yep, the game's just moved on right there. It just moved on because you've got a. Basically a like for like, ID Buzz alternative. A car that we all love. Big, roomy, practical, efficient, comfortable, can be a family car, can be a people carrier, can be a van, can be a bigger van, can be whatever you want it to be. And it costs something like £20,000 less than an equivalently spec'd VW ID buzz. £20,000. So that's a. You know, that's now the sort of electric commercial space, has a hero car. And, yeah, just astonishing to see. So those are my. Those are my. Certainly my most impressive cars of the.

[Imogen Pierce]

Year and I think the PV5 is the hero car, both in terms of, well, the hero commercial van, certainly. But it's been astonishing to see the response to it. You filmed with it twice this year and those two videos are in the top spots one and two in terms of episodes with the most views this year, which says something that people adore. It's kind of affordability, it's innovation, it's utility, it's funness as well, if that's a. Is that a word, funness?

[Jack Scarlett]

Absolutely.

[Imogen Pierce]

It can be. Now, yeah.

[Jack Scarlett]

What about you, Bogues or Bobby? Who's next?

[Robert Llewellyn]

I'll do my two because I'm really basic. I've already blown one because the. The Polestar 5 was extraordinarily impressive. But, you know, in a sense, it was under very extreme conditions that I drove it. So it was on test tracks, it was pushing it to the limit. It was all those things that were kind of, you know, you know, fun but silly. So I didn't drive it for that long or that far. But. Whereas, in contrast. So the Nissan Leaf, which is, you know, my. Was my kind of the first car that was. That I. Yeah, I think was the first car that was built from the ground up as an electric car. The first one that I bought and still own, you know, it's an amazing car that's done incredibly well. It's just past its second mot. Since it had a bit of welding done last year, it had nothing done. It was absolutely fine. One of the tires will need replacing in the next year. That's the. The most severe note it's had, which I just think is crazy, because that's now getting on for 16 years old and it's not really been terribly well looked after.

[Imogen Pierce]

And it does a lot of miles as well.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It's just past 90,000 miles. Yeah. So it's done. It's doing very well. But. So the new Nissan Leaf, when I went to see that again, I mean, Jack, I mean, I'm in. I need your advice on that, because it looks sort of a bit generic to a lot of other electric cars now, where, in a sense, the Leaf didn't at the time, it looked a bit weird and quirky and it had lots of weird and quirky things, some of which are really incredibly annoying, some of which are fine. The new Nissan Leaf is so extraordinary underneath. You know, they've waited for a decade to bring out another electric car. In a sense, you know, why didn't they do it sooner? But I mean, the leap in technology in the software. When you think of what the original Leaf was like, the software in the. In the new Leaf is brilliant. The drive is delightful, really solid, secure. I just felt really at home in that car really quickly and essentially I would go, I'm going to stick with the summer. In the summer, it does 300 miles more than the original Leaf, which I think is pretty impressive.

[Imogen Pierce]

It's mad.

[Jack Scarlett]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pierce]

It's so mad.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It does. It Has a genuine, I think, 350. You would get 350 miles out of that car in the summer. Not in the winter, but in the summer and on relatively flat roads and driving sensibly. But the thing is, the old Nissan Leaf, if you got 55 miles out of it.

[Jack Scarlett]

Yes.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Result. If it was raining, if there was the merest hill in your route.

[Imogen Pierce]

So that's been enabled by the increase in energy density and batteries, but also the decreasing in cost in those batteries as well. And I always find it interesting that if you'd gone back to the moment that you first got in at the original Nissan Leaf, there's no way that you could have projected to 2025.

[Robert Llewellyn]

No.

[Imogen Pierce]

And predicted this. It's not at all. Or imagined it, at least. It's. It's absolutely crazy. Yeah. Significant moments.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I also kind of just want them because they're building them in Sunderland and I really. I mean, I know we've been invited up there and we are not able to go now, but I really want to go up there next year because it's an amazing facility and they're making the batteries there and it's kind of. We somehow kind of. That's been taken for granted. You know, we'll do a story about they're going to try and build a battery factory in Somerset and then they never do and they've already got a battery factory that's been going all the time. We've been making fully charged and everything electric. Churning out batteries for electric cars there. But. Yeah, so it's a. I feel I'm in need, emotionally in need of a factory visit.

[Imogen Pierce]

Yeah. Yes. I feel. Yeah. You haven't had one for a while.

[Robert Llewellyn]

No.

[Imogen Pierce]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I think the last one I can remember is Cowley. It was the. The Mini factory tour. It was a few years ago when the electric. Mini came out. That was a while back.

[Imogen Pierce]

Well, we can definitely add that to the 2026 wish list. Robert needs to go to a factory.

[Robert Llewellyn]

He doesn't mind what it is. Yeah. I'm here at a baked bean factory outside Doncaster and it's fascinating.

[Imogen Pierce]

I've got a fact about baked beans. Oh, yeah. So apparently all of the beans from baked beans come from the same source and it's only the sauce that is different.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Oh, so all the beans are identical, regardless of the brand.

[Imogen Pierce]

Yeah, but it's the sauce S, A, U, C, E that is different. I mean, I would invite anyone to check that and to put in the comments. That is indeed correct, but I'm 97% sure of the accuracy of that statement.

[Jack Scarlett]

But do the beans on the podcast, we just throw facts out there and you let us know if it's true. We haven't checked.

[Robert Llewellyn]

But do the beans, do they come from the same farm? I mean, a specific location or, you know, it would be a large farm, obviously.

[Imogen Pierce]

Well, I think this is where we're going to turn to our audience and continue to use the comments section as like a Google search. We've just projected the questions out there and we invite people to help us out.

[Robert Llewellyn]

This episode is brought to you by Hankook. The Hankook ion tyre is built exclusively for electric vehicles, engineered to deliver what EV drivers need most confident grip, quietness, energy efficiency and long mileage. As the official tyre partner of Formula E, Hank Hook proves its EV technology is at the highest level of performance and brings that same innovation to every ion tire on the road.

[Jack Scarlett]

Imogen, tell us about your highlights of the year in terms of shoots, products, things you've seen.

[Imogen Pierce]

Well, do you know what I was looking back at? What, what have I done this year? And I've done very, very few car bits. I think I've only done the BYD dolphins. No, no, you did that. I just had BYD Sea Lion 7, Hyundai Insta and the G Wagon. So I think actually, from car perspective, that's what I've done. But I'm not sad about that at all because I've done some, just maybe the best shoots that I've ever done for, for everything. Electric show, they just blew my mind away. So over the summer, Namibia. Well, I'll leave that one to last because I think that's really hard.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pierce]

But we started off the year we went to see a lovely lady called Judith Leary. Joyce. She's just written a book which I think is on my desk.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Oh, good.

[Imogen Pierce]

Yes. What the builder won't tell you.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Wow. So brilliant. Yeah, fantastic.

[Imogen Pierce]

She is so inspirational. So her book is all about how to retrofit your home. She lived, or she has retrofitted her Victorian home, Victorian terrace house that she'd lived in for 40 years. And she's just so motivated by, you know, reducing her bills, looking after future generations, proving to other people of her age, because she is in her late 70s, that this is possible and that you can live a more comfortable life if you do it. So that was really, really fun. Over the summer, we did a trip again to Vancouver and I went with videographer George and we did some amazing shoots and we went to the site C Dam, which, again, huge piece of infrastructure that just when you step back and think about how dams are made, how reservoirs are made, it's mind boggling. And, you know, we were really lucky to see how a reservoir and a dam had been made back in the 50s and 60s. And it was not brilliant from a human rights perspective or an environmental protection perspective, but to be able to reflect back on that and to see what's done today, that was genuinely actually very moving. We also saw some new ways of refining lithium using electrolysis, which I totally nerded out about. That was fantastic. But at the top of the list is Namibia. And in September I went to Namibia and Botswana with videographer Louis and we had a few days on this solar powered, battery powered, electric safari boat.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And yeah, I think luxury hotel is probably better description.

[Imogen Pierce]

Correct, yes. And it was one of those things that, you know, because there's, there's a huge amount of solar gain that, that basically this, this boat barely even like needs to have batteries on it because it can basically just power itself from solar all day. And I've definitely mentioned this before, but when, when we got invited out there, I was like, ah, no, it's not real. So I ignored the emails for ages. I was like, it's a scam. Why on earth would they invite us? But they were super keen to tell the technical story behind this boat and it was just such a privilege to be there. And I know it sounds very kind of holy as thou, but also to spend time in nature properly. And I didn't have any Internet so I was like fully there kind of mentally as well. It is a good reminder of why we spend so much time and effort and energy wanging on about the benefits of clean energy. It's, it's really important that you don't, you know, screw up the habitats for these animals or their sort of how their cycles within the year. So it was, it was astonishing. It was really, really amazing. Yeah, I know.

[Jack Scarlett]

I want a good scroll spectacular video as well. Not just a jolly. You came away from that with just an unbelievable video, which I think is the most popular thing that's gone out on the Tech channel this year.

[Imogen Pierce]

Yes, it is. And I think I'm so glad it was because we were very acutely aware that it could seem like, oh, hey, look at me on a boat, I'm having a lovely time. But I think Louis Edit is second to none. But the video that comes second, and it is quite a close second on the everything Electric tech channel is the Cherry Tree Farm, actually, which is also another Louis one.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It was. Wasn't it annoying. It's annoying that he gets these. He's that talented. But that was. No, that was another extraordinary experience because of the sort of extreme. I mean, that is kind of extreme in the sense that the cherries, they grow for a start, are stunningly gorgeous cherries. And we were there after the season had ended, so they were the kind of leftover scrap. They were the scrag end cherries. And they're still the best cherries I've ever eaten in my life. But they pick huge cherries that are kind of the size of a small apple that they individually wrapped and sent to China and are given as gift. I think they're very expensive in China and they're given as gifts, which is like a whole new world. But the fact is from the point that where the trees have been planted, cultivated, looked after, the cherries are picked, the cherries are packed, the cherries are put on a truck, the cherries arrive presumably, I would think at either a dock or an airport. There's. They're 100% solar powered electric. There's no, there's no diesel used at all anywhere. Every machine they've got is electric. Their factory is powered by. Their packing plant is powered by solar. I mean, and they're in New Zealand, so they're not in as much sun as you would be where I'm now in Brisbane. But yeah, that was pretty special. An amazing experience to see that and such a lovely, you know, amazing. A guy that runs it really, you know, very sort of just inspirational. You felt more positive after speaking to him.

[Imogen Pierce]

You know, he was, he is inspirational because a large part of why he's done this is to prove to other farmers that actually this is a much more cost effective way to, to operate your farm.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah, no, he's. I mean, that's his main visitors other than the people who. They're all French and British, the ones who. And students who are picking the. Who go there to pick the cherries in the season. The vast majority of his visitors are other farmers from New Zealand and Australia who sort of arrive cynical and leave evangelical, you know, because they see and they have a go in his electric tractor and they see and he's got a big, you know, he's converted a big truck which carries tons of cherries. I mean, it's very, very impressive whole thing. I mean, it's such an extraordinary. I'd never, I don't think I've ever been to a cherry farm before anywhere. So it was, you know, an Eye opening thing, the scale of it. He produces a lot.

[Imogen Pierce]

And it was also one of those ones which was put on our radar by a lot of people writing in the comments of various other videos saying, yeah, you guys really, really need to go and see. Mike, you need to go and see Cherry Tree Farm. It's not even called Cherry Tree Farm, whatever it is called.

[Robert Llewellyn]

I'm desperately trying not to Google it. I'm not going to Google it all.

[Imogen Pierce]

Yeah, I can't believe it does show that. If you want us to cover something, your best way to let us know is in the comments. We do read them, even the nasty ones.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Then. The other one that I did around that time was in Hobart, which I'm now sort of looking back. We did travel quite a bit there. But that was extraordinary to see. Hull 96, I believe, 096, which was a giant catamaran across, I guess Cross river, although it's kind of almost Cross Bay Ferry for. Between Paraguay and Argentina.

[Imogen Pierce]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yes. On the River Plate. But I mean, what, you know, when you go around a shipyard where it's not a boat with. It's not. It's not a boat. You know, when you see the scale of it, you go, you walk along the side of it for 10 minutes, go, okay, this is a ship. I know the difference. I know how big a boat is. And this is a ship. It's huge.

[Imogen Pierce]

I think it's 2,500 cars or something like that that can fit on it.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It's 2,500 people passengers. It's about 800 cars, I think, something like that, which is a lot of cars still. And it's essentially a float. It will be. And it's doing sea trials at the moment. And I couldn't get there to see it. It was just too difficult. So it's on the water now being whizzed along with its incredibly enormous electric motors and batteries that are still lighter and smaller than the diesel engines they would have had to put in to do the same thing, which I think is extraordinary. So with a diesel engine and a full tank of. Of diesel is heavier than whatever it is, the four and a half megawatt hours of batteries and the huge motors they've got, they are, they are big and it's. It's powered like a jet ski. So it fires water out of the back of the thing and it finds. The water goes hundreds of meters out back when it's at full pelt, you know, So I would love to have seen it. But it went once. It's going it's basically a supermarket with a car park because it's all, it's all about duty free and it's the, the scale of it. When you're in it you go I know this is like a big, you know, Waitrose big out of city center. Waitrose or Tesco or Lidl but other.

[Imogen Pierce]

Yes, other supermarkets are available and that is.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Well I think it's quite a high end supermarket. That's what, that's why I was waitrosing it.

[Imogen Pierce]

M S Food. Maybe that could be the other M and S. Yes. But the guy who owned that shipyard or that shipping company.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Oh, what a dude.

[Imogen Pierce]

Would you guess he's in his 80s.

[Robert Llewellyn]

He's in his slightly later. I think he's about 87, works full time all day, is amazing and full of energy and knowledge and enthusiasm and has built. Well that's his 96th Hull. So that's why it's Hull 96. Yeah.

[Imogen Pierce]

And even prior to obviously doing this electric one they had been really pioneering in lightweight aluminium ship structures as well. So efficiency. It's probably his middle name.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It is, yeah. And that whole. Yeah. But it's important to point out for people who haven't seen that it is entirely aluminium. The whole, whole, the whole structure of the ship is aluminium and it's kind of aluminium on a big. You know I still think of aluminum as sort of a bit wibbly wobbly. I don't know why it shouldn't but it's, it's just a scale of the structure and the fact that it's twin hulls with this enormous arch in between it when you're inside underneath it it's like being in a cathedral. It's on that sort of scale. It is really impressive. And camera, camera operator Louis had to go up in a very tall crane to get a shot of me standing on the front of the ship. I think that was quite a challenge for him.

[Imogen Pierce]

Oh I can.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It was a cherry picker but a really enormously tall cherry trees.

[Imogen Pierce]

Oh my God. Here I have definitely spoken about that thing of like cooling of the void where you know, at that point you could just drop a camera.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yes.

[Imogen Pierce]

What if?

[Robert Llewellyn]

What happens if. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, but those were. Yeah, sure. I mean I think also you know, it kind of fills me with a certain amount of hope. I've just read this report from Catl who are saying we they'll be powering ocean going transport ships in five years with their new batteries because that's all it is. I mean the motors work. It just Turns a big screw. You need a big electric motor. You just need monstrous batteries.

[Imogen Pierce]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

And solar panels, you know, that would help. I suppose you could put them on the top.

[Imogen Pierce]

And unlike, you know, shipping it need. Does need that redundancy and backup as well. And you don't want a dual system. So it's. Yeah, it's. It's tricky. The other thing that we should talk about because we've done a lot of them this year is live shows. So I guess. Question to both of you. Do you have any key highlights from any live shows this year? Any favourite panels or favorite shows, stories that the people who attended might not be aware of any of the above?

[Robert Llewellyn]

I mean, the one thing that's really stuck in my memory is the final day of the Sydney show in March of this year where what. For whatever reason, I think we still don't quite know.

[Jack Scarlett]

The.

[Robert Llewellyn]

The audience, the. The public that were attending sort of shifted. So you suddenly knew, you know, like on the Friday you knew that most of the people that were there were long term electric vehicle users or fans or stuff. There would be some people that have seen me on TV or whatever. Some people who've watched, a lot of people who've watched fully charged and all those things. So kind of what you expect. And there was a lot of them, but that was sort of. They all fitted in that kind of general thing on the Sunday, it was people who were interested in electric cars have heard about them. They knew nothing about the fully charged show, everything electric. They'd never heard of me, they'd never heard of any of us. They'd never watched anything we've ever done. And they were there in droves. I mean, it was just jam packed with people. And that was a kind of turning point for us, I think really of any show. Because even in Farnborough, where we do get really big audiences, I still feel they're within that, you know, they're kind of aware of what we're doing and aware of those discussions around that. Whereas this felt completely different. And it was, you know, I think the racial mix as well was very reflective of Sydney. I. E. There's a lot of Asian people, a lot of Indian people, a lot of families, hundreds of families. And sometimes when I walk through, well, it's the same for all of us. But you know, when I walk through the show at Farnborough, quite a lot of people will say hello or want to do a selfie or want to ask a question. I walked through the Sydney show, no one looked at me twice. I Could get to the stage really fast. Other than the fact that I was pushing through a crowd, you know, it was very, very different thing. And it kind of felt like this is what I was really pleased, you know, this is a kind of what we need to happen, the next step.

[Imogen Pierce]

Yeah. And I think it was sort of that moment of this is about affordability. This is about people seeing a more efficient, energy efficient way to live their lives. And I feel like I really recollect you at one point almost, I think you might have been stood with a clipboard asking people why they were here, why they were there, what brought them here.

[Jack Scarlett]

Yes.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Why are you here?

[Imogen Pierce]

And yeah, you're right. None of them, none of them had a Scooby who you are, which is great.

[Robert Llewellyn]

That's what that was. That was one of the things we thought, my goodness, we should be publicizing the YouTube channel at the live events rather than, you know, we always aren't there other way around, you know. And actually, I think what we now know is we don't need. We have to publicize the live events on the YouTube channel. It's definitely. We should be giving out leaflets at the door. Have you ever watched this tune in?

[Imogen Pierce]

It's on YouTube. Please watch our videos with real.

[Robert Llewellyn]

We make videos on YouTube.

[Imogen Pierce]

Please watch them. Jack, how about you? Which ones have been highlights for you?

[Jack Scarlett]

Oh, gosh. Well, obligatory zap heap Farnborough mention. I'm sure that we'll do a whole thing on that later on, but just one of the highlights of my year. An unforgettable experience filming the builds and then doing the showdowns at Farnborough and then what that did for the Farnborough show in terms of just how buzzy it was and how giddy with excitement everyone was, unbelievable experience. I've got a panelist of the year and I'm just gonna get a tiny bit serious for a moment here, if I may. Gang. Rare occasion, but in Melbourne, the Melbourne shows. A few weeks ago, Bobby was a bit unwell, so I took a few of his panels and they were panels that I wouldn't typically do. I not stuff or I'm just nerding out about cars. We did some stuff about home energy, public transport, and I had a panelist called Claire Walter on the panel about electrifying public transport. And she's a lecturer at Melbourne University. Human sciences, health, geography. She does research and policy work. And I don't want to say she derailed the session because that's the wrong word. But when she started talking about her Specialist subject. It was very hard to talk about anything else for the rest of the session because what she does is, is collates data about air pollution in cities, how it affects children in terms of spikes in learning difficulties and mortality rates, and then tries to convince the government to do something about it. Not by showing them the data about spikes in learning difficulties and mortality rates, but by trying to quantify financially why it's in our interest to do something about that. And it was not dissimilar, Imogen, I imagine, although quite different to the experience you had when you were on the boats in Namibia and having this kind of reminder of like, ah, yes, there are actually bigger, more serious reasons why this is important.

[Robert Llewellyn]

We.

[Jack Scarlett]

I sort of try to distance myself from the sobering reasons why this electric stuff is important. Most of the time we don't like moaning at people or scaring people on our YouTube channels. I would much rather go, hey, these electric cars, they're fantastic and cool and you're gonna love them. Instead of sort of really going down the process of thinking actually, well, here's what happens if we don't electrify and green up quite quickly. But it was sobering is the word. And just a really, really, really, really powerful reminder of this sort of the stuff that really matters, the reasons why these things really, really, really are important. And it turned out to be a very kind of inspiring and educational session. But yeah, I felt like someone had dumped a bucket of cold water over my head. And yeah, it's a privilege that even I, having been to 20 of these flipping shows of ours now can come away from these sessions having learned new things and just having a different perspective. And that is what the shows are all about, truth be told.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Just quickly, Imogen, just because I've. I'd forgotten about that, Jack. But on the Wednesday after the show, we had dinner with my wife and I had dinner with some. Some. There's no other way of describing retired circus performers. I'm just going to leave that there. But one of them saw. One of them had saw that talk because they were just. Oh, really raving about. About it. Yeah. So they'd come along. But was it on the Sunday Was that.

[Jack Scarlett]

I couldn't tell you.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Anyway, it was on one of the day. Anyway, they were there. No very, very clear description because they didn't know any of the people who any of the people were. That's not their field. But they just went. I've never even thought about it before. This is amazing. I can't stop thinking about telling all My friends about it, you know, they're not in our world of sort of. They knew nothing about it, you know, at all. But yeah, anyway, yeah, no, that was clearly it was a very good panel.

[Imogen Pierce]

But it is, it is so fascinating because, I mean, you're right, we learn something new on these panels every single time from experts and we often, as is our role, kind of skim the surface of a lot of these topics and then you get these opportunities to speak with global experts and get this new window, this new perspective. But I think the other thing that's interesting is that so often we've wanted to have this conversation from that position of these technologies are brilliant. We can be really pragmatic about it. We don't want this to be political, they shouldn't be politicized. But we are unfortunately in a period of time where we do have to go back to those hardcore facts and say, are you really having an argument about whether it's a good idea or not to improve air quality and mortality rates for children? Are we there? Like, are you denying that fact? And it's sobering, but it's also, it's so important because I think it. Sadly we, we're probably going to have to speak a little bit more about some of those things just to make the pragmatism make sense, perhaps.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, well said. Very true. Yeah.

[Imogen Pierce]

But some positive reflections because we are coming towards the end. Ish. Maybe. You never know. We could be here for five minutes, we could be here for 17 hours, who knows? But Jack, you alluded to some cars that you think are going to be significant for 2026 and I almost. I don't want to take away from your amazing video that I know you've just filmed, but can you give us any glimpses of anything that you're excited about for next year?

[Jack Scarlett]

I'd be delighted. Instead of giving you specific cars, I'm going to give you some macro trends, which I do. I do a lot of these at the start of our new Cars Guide video, which is going to come out somewhere in mid January. But I'll just give you a little flavor. Here are three things I'm excited for in 2026. First of all, big year for British automotive. I think admittedly it's quite high end niche stuff, but Jaguar Land Rover will finally see the new era of electric Jaguar. I'm personally quite excited about that. We'll finally see the flipping electric Range Rover that they've been teasing for years and years and years, which you cannot possibly imagine being Anything other than a runaway global hit, Caterham might just release a small, lightweight electric sports car. Big year for British electric stuff. I think the big overarching story of what's coming out this coming year is more cheap, small stuff. Last couple of years has been about that 30,000 pound price point which the MG4 kind of came in as the hero of and then everyone else panicked and delivered their own cars at that price point. That's done. Now there's too many good cars costing about 30 grand. This year it's about £25,000, lots of those VW group, then you kind of MEB plus stuff and then a couple of really exciting sort of 20,000 pound offerings. I'm talking Renault, Twingo, potentially MG2, that's being teased. So just more small, cheap stuff. Yeah, couple more. Big year for Japan again. Japanese industry kind of just getting a bit serious about this thing now. Nissan, we were talking about them earlier, have launched two electric cars to date this year. They'll deliver three more and unveil another two. I think that's right. So that really kind of symbolizes the fact that Japan are kind of going, okay, maybe actually electric is the future. The whole hydrogen thing that we were banging on about anyway, hey, good for them. We're happy to have them along. And then, final one, this is very subjective, but I think that cars are going to get more interesting this year. I have this idea that this is actually something that audience member kind of posed as a question at a session at Farnborough. He's kind of going, do you think cars have got a bit boring in the last few years? I was kind of turning it over in my head and I was like, maybe kind of a little bit. And maybe the car brands have been so hung up on big, important, scary jobs like developing new electric vehicle platforms, ripping out all the robots in their factories and fitting new ones that can build EVs, retraining their staff, figuring out the whole software debacle, that there has been a little bit of just a lack of effort, but little nice thoughtful details and clever, interesting design has potentially just slightly fallen by the wayside in the last couple of years, while bigger fish have been fried. Looking at what's coming out next year, I just think there's some really cool, interesting, desirable electric vehicles. And that makes me happy as a car nerd, because I don't want cars to just become sterile boxes that get us from A to B. I want them to be interesting and desirable and, you know, slightly improve your day when you get in them and there's a lot of stuff coming out this year that reflects that, in my opinion. So there you go, there's my macro trends. You don't have to watch my new cars guide now.

[Imogen Pierce]

Oh no, but please do, because it's always so brilliant and this is such, yeah. Such succinct reflections and I just want to read you the note that I wrote on my bit of paper here. Fun equals next big thing. So I can totally agree with you on your last point. Just phrase it in a far less eloquent way. Robert, how about you? Anything that you're looking forward to predicting? Want to have your hit list?

[Robert Llewellyn]

The thing I'm kind of have been excited about for the last 10 years and finally it feels like it's finally maybe starting to happen in a more, you know, in a more plausible way is vehicle to grid. So the, the experiments they're going to do, they're going to be doing in South Australia, there's numerous projects here, but also in the uk, so there are. So I know October Octopus are doing, you know, it's that finally. Oh, like here's the box, you plug it in here. The electricity can go both ways. You don't have to do it if you don't want to, but you can. The fact that you can finally. And if you can sell some electricity when you're not using your car at 5 o' clock in the evening for more money than you paid for it, you know, it's going to be, it's always going to be tiny. Those is not going to make a living out of doing that. But the fact that you can, I know, will click a switch in people who've not got an electric car and don't know anything about them and aren't interested and they go, oh, oh, I see. You can buy and sell, you know, you've got this big battery and you can buy and sell stuff. And on a, on a macro level, I mean, I just, it was basically an engineer at the National Grid when I first went to the National Grid control room. I don't know how long ago, that's 10 plus years ago. Yeah, they, they, they just said, well, imagine there's 10 million electric cars and 2 million are plugged in and we can take a little bit of power from each of those. That's three large nuclear power plants we've got switch on like that. You know when you hear them talking about that, then, well, it, you know, it just hasn't happened and it hasn't happened and it hasn't happened until it feels like we'll see it actually start. I don't think it's going to be a big thing next year, but it will start to happen. Where you can go, well, they're doing it here. There's 500 cars over there in Derbyshire or Leicester or somewhere where there are. They are connected to the grid. They are able to, you know, send power out, I think. You know, I just think it's such an obvious use for a car when you're not using it.

[Imogen Pierce]

Yeah. And. And I think the BYD and Octopus partnership will be certainly pushing it most acutely here in the uk. I think on that lease deal, it's probably for about 300 pounds, maybe a bit over. You get the BYD dolphin and you basically get free miles if you agree to plug it in. And I think that's what's interesting with all of this. We're so fortunate to see the frontier of these technologies, or these technologies that are emerging and they're brilliant. We know they're brilliant. But ultimately, until they are convenient or cost effective or more comfortable or all of the other things, they're not going to win the majority of people's hearts and minds. And I think vehicle to grid is one of those ones where it's like, oh, I see, I see. Like, I. Suddenly, the world of energy and vehicles make sense to me and I can really benefit from this. So I think it's such an important innovation that we have to see at scale.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Jack Scarlett]

I just. Very quickly, I again covered a panel for Robert at the Melbourne show, which I would not normally have done. No, no, it was a pleasure. Robert, please. About V2G, and I was sort of playing the layman because I am one about this technology and I was like, so panelists, break it down to me. Why, as. Why would I, as a normal civilian, want to help the grid by giving my car and supplying it as a battery? And one of the guests went, do you like not spending money? I said, yes. Said, do you like being given money? I said, yes. Well, they go, yeah, somewhere like ours where they've all got solar panels on their roof, they are staring down the barrel of a future where they're not driving for free. They're getting paid to own these electric cars. They're making money off them because they're charging when it's cheap and they're selling it back to the grid when the grid needs it.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It's. Yeah.

[Jack Scarlett]

Unbelievably exciting. Yeah. That's a good shout, Robert. I can't wait to See that come to fruition.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pierce]

And I do think in a context of. And I know from almost fake news, Robert, you've had a couple of runs, just a couple about AI and data centers and the vast amounts of energy that they consume. All points that I. All points that I absolutely agree with you with. But I was reading this article yesterday about how economic growth is really contingent on growing the amount of electricity that we have access to produce.

[Jack Scarlett]

Absolutely.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pierce]

Yeah. And if data centers are going to be here for, you know, the rest of time.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pierce]

I just so hope that it pushes us in the direction of cheap, affordable, clean electricity which is cheaper and more affordable, more sustainable than the fossil fuel equivalents.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Imogen Pierce]

So I think, yeah, hopefully there's a.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Couple of things that. Around the area so. Because I discussed that with. It's in recent podcast Scott Cooney from Clean Technica. But they've got an amazing article about effectively data centers in space. And actually it makes sense. I mean I can imagine getting hundreds and hundreds of tons of servers up into space, kind of. There's a few challenges there. But you know, you have 24 hour solar, there's two aspects of it. There's, which I've heard before, there is massive solar arrays in space, geostationary, massive satellites and they beam down electricity 24 hours a day because there's no, there's no dawn or dusk or night. That was one thing. But he was so, he is so supremely optimistic about everything. Completely at odds with the current administration in the United States because there are amazing, there's amazing things happening in America as one would has always been the case. You know, there was that. But the other one is a report I read this week which is about the cost the global. Now the kind of global cost of solar farms and batteries. And it's come down to just below the cheapest way of producing electricity in any other way. So gas peaker plants, nuclear, coal, everything, everything. Hydro, wind, it's cheaper than all of those. And this is 24 hours. This isn't just for an hour in the evening. This is a 24 hour guaranteed supply. And it's. I think it's 63. Is it 65. $65 per megawatt hour.

[Imogen Pierce]

Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Which works out, does that work out at 6.5 pence cents a kilowatt hour?

[Imogen Pierce]

I think so. Divide by a thousand.

[Robert Llewellyn]

A thousand?

[Imogen Pierce]

I, I have to do the like.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Where do I move anyway? Yeah. So that is the cost it can do and it's because of the drop in prices of batteries which are just, it dropped 40% last year, the price of manufacturing batteries and they expect it to do the same. In 2024 it dropped 40 and expect it to be the same. So they've just got much cheaper. The materials have got. We know, you know, we've talked about it a lot. The materials have got less contentious and cheaper and more abundant and more circular as well.

[Imogen Pierce]

Like. Yeah, there's batteries that exist in the world. Let's not use virgin materials. Let's reuse those existing batteries. Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

So I mean that's, that's exciting and I'm hopefully. We don't know for sure, but I'm going to see a fairly substantial solar and battery array in Australia in the new year. But we haven't, we haven't finalized it. I should probably shouldn't say in case we don't get to do it, but it looks.

[Imogen Pierce]

Yes, we. So I just had a call with them this morning. You'd sent an email over the weekend. They have 980, 000 solar panels there.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Right.

[Imogen Pierce]

And I reckon we'll film there with a 97 certainty.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Yeah. Okay, that's good.

[Imogen Pierce]

That's pretty good. Yeah.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Oh, because. That's right. Because it's not finished, is it? It's, it's only because I think it's going to be 1.8 million panels when it's fully done. So they've got them. They haven't put them all in yet. They've done the first.

[Imogen Pierce]

It's like a phase one phase.

[Robert Llewellyn]

It's a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Imogen Pierce]

Well, do you know, I'm so, I'm so glad that you brought up the $65 per megawatt hour stat because at the start of this year we did a video about predictions for 2025 and that was one of them. Not the specific cost, but that just the economic case for batteries and solar would supersede that of, of coal and gas. And we're there and it makes these things harder to argue with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before we close, any last tiny little bits that you want to say or reflect on about the wonderful year that we've had on the show.

[Robert Llewellyn]

Oh, I mean I think that on the whole, in just in, on from a personal level, when you, When I see the news or I read something in the. I was going to say in the papers, I did buy a newspaper this year just so that I at least bought one, but you know, when you. And, and it's pretty grim and then when I look at what we're doing, you know, I think it's not deluded, but it is optimistic. You know, I think that if we can continue to follow that path, we're not kind of going, everything's fabulous. You know, we're sort of acknowledging that there's some bad stuff going on in the world, but there is. There is large lumps of hope and of optimism and of positivity. And that's kind of. I feel now that's kind of. Our job is to make sure we push that out as much as we can, because there's plenty of negative stuff we certainly don't need to add to that.

[Imogen Pierce]

There are. The huge lumps of positivity are so often enabled by just the incredible people that we meet in panels on shoots who were so inspiring. And I do feel like we have a real duty to shine a massive spotlight on those people and just shout from the hilltops the wonderful things that they're doing. Jack. I know that that's something that, you know, every. We always have a chat in the back room after panels, and we come away being like, oh, my God, that was actually a great discussion. There's always someone who totally blows us away.

[Jack Scarlett]

There really is. Yeah, there really is. It's, I think, the reason. It's the thing that keeps us going. It's the reason that we have the energy and the optimism and the sort of willingness to plow on, you know, in the face of just like, endless pessimistic and often inaccurate press about this stuff. Yeah, we don't. We don't just wake up, fall out of bed energized and motivated. It's the people that we meet in this job and the stuff that they're doing that sort of keeps us going.

[Imogen Pierce]

Well, I think that is probably the perfect note to end on. So if anyone who has been involved in our shows in any capacity, be that a panelist, be that the PR who got the panelists to the panel, be that any of our episodes, from the bottom of our hearts, thank you for keeping us positive this year. Thank you for helping us to meet the 26 million or so people who've also heard your message this year as well on our channel. Thank you to our team who have put in an enormous amount of effort to deliver all five shows this year, plus our production team, who have been to all five shows and churned out some 169 episodes. I don't know how they do it. It is nice. Astonishing. So, yeah, honestly, thank you. But that's it. If you have been. Thank you for listening and watching and Merry Christmas.

[Jack Scarlett]

Merry Christmas. Happy New Year.