← Everything Electric Podcast
Everything Electric Podcast
Britain’s Best-Selling Electric Bike — And Why Maeving Is Betting Big on UK Manufacturing!
00:44:40
In this episode of the Fully Charged Show Podcast, Imogen Bhogal sits down with Seb Inglis-Jones, the co-founder and CEO of Maeving, the UK’s leading electric motorcycle manufacturer. Seb shares the origin story of Maeving — from building a...
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- [00:05]
Host
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Fully Charged show podcast, where today we're catching up with Seb Inglis Jones, who is the co founder and CEO of Maeving, a motorbike and electric motorbike company based here in the uk. Now, if you've not heard of Maeving before, then go and take a look on Google Images, have a look at their beautiful bikes. They have the RM1 and the RM1s, both of which just need CBTS, so your compulsory basic training rather than a full motorbike license. They are truly beautiful, perhaps really well known for their retro futuristic design. And in this episode we're going to get into the details of Maeving, how this startup came to be, what are some of their challenges in terms of creating electric motorbikes here in the uk and how can we get more people onto two wheeled electric mobility. Now, one thing that we did mention is price. Fairly early on in the podcast and what I didn't mention is that actually you can lease these bikes for less than the cost of a monthly Oyster card. So that can make them super, super compelling. So all of that is coming, but first, a very quick advert break.
- [01:10]
Advertiser
We've teamed up with Duracell Energy to celebrate their brilliant ecosystem of home energy products and their platinum home owner offer by giving away a Duracell Bunny to win. Simply watch to the end and answer a question about fully charged.
- [01:25]
Host
Seb, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast on this really rather lovely Thursday morning. There will be so many people listening who will be absolutely familiar with who Maving is. They will have either seen you at one of our live shows or seen the amazing episode that Jack did in the summer last year. But perhaps for those who aren't familiar, could you give us the elevator pitch?
- [01:45]
Seb Inglis Jones
So Maving is Britain's first and I'm glad to say at the mom selling electric motorcycle manufacturer. We started the business not that long ago, about 2018. And the thing that really defines all the products that we've made is that we champion removable batteries. So the idea that despite, you know, it being a kind of fully fledged ev, you can take the battery out of the vehicle and charge it at any standard socket, which completely overcomes this whole, this whole sort of challenge of charging infrastructure being a barrier to electric adoption. So that's one of the key tenets. And then the other thing is leaning into the rich heritage that the UK has in the world of British motorcycling. You know, we're not really known for that much these days. Anymore as a country in terms of manufacturing, but motorcycle design still remains one of the things. And so our bikes, I think, reflect the kind of best eras of British motorcycle design.
- [02:37]
Host
And that's. Oh, sorry, I was just gonna say.
- [02:40]
Seb Inglis Jones
And also, you know, quite a few members of the team have kind of cut their teeth in some of the great British brands.
- [02:45]
Host
That's something I definitely want to touch on in this interview because your team is really, really quite extraordinary and that's been an incredibly deliberate choice. So we will get into that. I want to just touch also on those removable batteries because, you know, there are various things, various solutions out there with removable batteries, but what's really stunning about the maving ones is that they're, they're very beautiful. You wouldn't mind having them in the corner of your living room, say, charging away.
- [03:09]
Seb Inglis Jones
Well, I think that was sort of part and parcel of this idea of trying to introduce a culture where people are. Just as you charge your phone and your laptop at your desk, at work or wherever, even in a coffee shop, you do the same with your battery. So this has really been pioneered by the Chinese, actually. Now China is such a big player in the world of ev and everyone knows that. But back in the day, when we started the business, China wasn't really talked about in the west. It was mainly Norway, which had just gone past, I think, 50% electric adoption adoption Germany and had pretty, pretty big adoption rates, but China was nowhere to be seen. But actually in the two wheeled space, 80% electric adoption. And everyone got used to this idea of having removable battery bikes, essentially because the Chinese government sort of outlawed petrol almost overnight in order to get rid of the issues with the really bad air pollution they were having in cities. So this whole movement had to start without really any charging infrastructure. And so removable batteries were the natural solution to that. And now, yeah, you go into a coffee shop or you go into someone's apartment in Shanghai and they've got their battery on the table charging away. So why not make it beautiful?
- [04:20]
Host
Yeah, why not make it beautiful? And also, you know, even from a weight perspective, they're about 10 kilos, is that right?
- [04:27]
Seb Inglis Jones
So, yeah, well, actually 12 for the RM1 and then about 15 for the RM1s. The RM1s being obviously high top speed and about twice the acceleration of the RM1 and the R1s. You can obviously charge the bike directly as well. So it kind of depends whether you live on the outskirts of the city and you've got a garage and you can just plug it in or whether, like me, you live in an apartment in London and it's a relief to know that you can just take it out, charge it.
- [04:57]
Host
Yeah. So two flagship products at the moment, the RM1 and the RM1s. You've mentioned a couple of the key differences between them, but could you sort of spell that out even clear more clearly for our audience?
- [05:10]
Seb Inglis Jones
Yeah, absolutely. So they're all, I mean, you know, they both share the same lineage in terms of design, so they're both, as I said, quite kind of heritage inspired. For anyone who's familiar with the cafe racer era of the kind of 50s, 60s, that's where they both hark back to in terms of their design language. The RM1 is kind of built specifically with new riders and purely city riding in mind. So top speed of 45 miles per hour, 80 miles of range. It's a little bit lighter, you know, it's a bit sort of more relaxed off the line. And there are plenty of people who live in London and for whom that bike just makes complete sense. It's also a little bit more affordable. It starts at five grand. The R1s is for. I guess it's been designed for people whose journeys might take them outside the city centre, who need to spend free times on motorways and a roads, because that's got a 70 mile per hour top speed. I'd also say, I guess for the bikers among us, I've grown up loving bikes and cars and the RM1s for me is just in terms of speed and performance, is the one to go for. And I think genuinely for riding around town, I would say give them bear in mind that I do still ride the occasional petrol bike. I would say the R1s is the best city bike you can get because it's automatic, it's got like bicycle brakes. It's just super easy to ride. You're not constantly kind of changing up and down gears, you know, between traffic. So, yeah, that's good.
- [06:38]
Host
And critically. So I did. I joined the shoot that Jack and the team did last year and you just feel so cool and people stop and ask you questions about them because it's such a beautiful design. I think you said retro futuristic there. And so people stop and they're curious and they want to know more. And, you know, there are many people for whom outside of London, you quickly get into those areas where you do need to go above 50, 60 miles per hour and then you can have a bit more confidence with the RM1s for sure.
- [07:11]
Seb Inglis Jones
I'm glad you Said, look, I think people still, even though actually in some ways motorcycling has, it's become quite niche, you know, in this country and in a lot of European countries as well, not so much southern Europe where it's more popular. But you know, we can talk about that, about how I think it's seeing a bit of a revival. But people still, they just love the look of motorbikes and particularly kind of old school motorbikes. And so I think the bike is beautiful in its own right, but the fact that it's also kind of quiet and it has this slightly different aura about it, it's obviously the acceleration is quite good. I think people are just really intrigued and sort of confused when they're working out slowly that it is electric and it is something new. So I think you do tend to get quite a lot of attention on it.
- [07:55]
Host
Now, one of the things that came up on our video was the price. And I think whenever we talk about electric vehicles in any capacity, be them sort of two wheelers or traditional cars, the question of price comes up because we know that presently there are some instances where we are at price parity, definitely at price parity. From a running cost perspective, you know, if you look at the overall total cost of ownership, but that initial purchase price is a little bit higher. So I wonder if you could sort of share how the RM1 and the RM1s compare to say their internal combustion engine counterparts and do they ultimately end up being something that is cheaper to own versus one of those internal combustion engine?
- [08:34]
Seb Inglis Jones
Sure. Well, actually, I think the first thing I'd say is that the reason that our bikes are a little bit more expensive is more to do with the fact that they're built in the factory that I'm in currently in the uk. So all of our bikes are hand built in Britain and the components that we use are incredibly high quality. So we've decided to engage with a supply chain that is quite elevated versus some of our competitors. So I think it's just worth saying, actually that's really where the price piece comes in. And I like to think, based on the fact that we are outselling all of those cheaper Chinese players, but also the likes of Kawasaki and BMW, that people are recognizing that quality and the role that design plays and the performance as well. So I think it's important to get that said first because there are actually electric scooters and motorbikes you can buy in this country that are as affordable as the most affordable 125cc Comparable petrol scooters and bikes. So actually there is not a huge or any green premium for people who are just purely looking to get the most affordable product, you know, so if we, but so having said that, if we take something, I think the most popular bike, comparable bike in this country at the moment is the Honda PCX125. This is a, you know, there's actually, there's a scooter, there's a motorcycle variant and that is about three and a half grand versus our 5,000 pound RM1. So there is a premium that you play in the first instance but if you look at it over the course of five years, it's actually only, I think it's 18% or no, it's 14% more expensive for the R1. So that's taking into account road tax, insurance, petrol use for the average UK commuter. So actually it is, you know, the cost of ownership over the course of four years, it's pretty similar. And so, so I think the fact that we've managed to make a bike that is built in the UK that looks as it does and actually, you know, once you've ridden it for a few years is virtually the same price as the most affordable and most popular 125cc bike is pretty impressive.
- [10:39]
Host
That is extremely impressive. And actually when I've spoken to various engineering friends, we've been talking about the maving, I had one engineering friend who was like, okay, I need you to find out how on earth they have achieved that quality at the price point. Because there's things like really, really beautiful machined parts that just have such a high quality feel. I mean your suppliers are all extremely well known suppliers, which is quite RA for a startup because typically you don't have that kind of leverage to be able to command those good prices from those enormous, enormous tier one suppliers. But I know how you've structured your team and how you've chosen to be in Coventry, sort of the heartland of motorcycling in the uk. That's all kind of enabled some of those things.
- [11:22]
Seb Inglis Jones
Completely, completely. It's all, it's entirely down to the team. So I think when we started the business we felt very strongly the only bikes really that worked that were in the market with these Chinese imports and the, a lot of these bikes are absolutely fantastic at what they've been designed to do. You know, they're built for a populace that are much more price sensitive. A domestic market that has a, you know, where you can buy bikes between $400 and $1500 and naturally there's a bit of a cost saving exercise that goes into the quality around that, but that's sufficient for that market. So we by comparison wanted to really dig into the quality and to focus on, you know, making products that people were really proud to own and had that kind of metal work that you were talking about earlier, stitch seats, you know, all that kind of stuff. So we, we decided as a company that we were only going to hire the most, you know, people who were top of their game. So our first hire was, was Triumph's head of product called Graham Gilbert. The key person for this, you know, kind of conversation is our head of procurement, who's a guy called Neville Thomas. He was head of procurement at Triumph and Norton, but also Polestar, London electric vehicle company, you know, all the sort of big EV players. And so it's entirely through him that we were able to attract suppliers like Bosch, for example, who just don't work with startups, you know, young companies as we were back then. And so it was entirely based on their relationship that we were able to essentially, you know, purchase relatively small batches of parts from companies that usually any deal in the tens or hundreds of thousands. And I think the fact that it was, you know, the team, the design, that we were one of the few western players, you know, so I think they were also taking a bit of a, you know, bit of an interest in how that market was developing. And so I think that's how we've managed to get the quality, that's how we managed to get the price also. That's how we managed to fend off the challenges of COVID as well. Because most businesses that were kind of forged in the fires of COVID did not do so well out of the supply crisis off the back of it. So yeah, entirely down to the caliber.
- [13:31]
Host
Of the team and I imagine so for those who are listening, not watching, Seb is not in his 50s, you are early 30s, 34, which is horrifying because I remember when I first met you, I think it would have been back in maybe 20, 21, I was like, oh my God, we're similar age and you've started a company and I have not started a company. But I suspect many investors, when you first had those initial conversations, maybe that might have been a bit of a challenge to convince them that you were someone they should back. I imagine they also had a perception that your company was going to be made up of 21 year olds sitting on beanbags. Was that the case?
- [14:12]
Seb Inglis Jones
So I think, do you know, it's Almost one of the advantages of being young and the fact that my co founder, Will and I have absolutely no history and no technical skills, no engineering skills, is that we just instantly had to lean on very experienced people. And so right from the outset, the plan was, as I said, to hire a team that really punches above its weight, essentially to sort of take a siloed product team from within, a really established one of the. One of the. One of the great motorcycle manufacturers and recreate that on a single product in the first instance in our team. And we've also surround ourselves in terms of investors and advisors and our board with incredibly experienced people who more than account for the follies of youth and who, as I said, we just have to rely on them entirely because of our particular skill sets and how much they diverge from that technical skill set. I think in many ways, some of the companies that have struggled in the EV space have been the ones where it's been a technical founder who's been an excellent engineer, but maybe not been approaching the whole venture from commercial perspective.
- [15:22]
Host
That's very diplomatically phrased, I think, there. But it is fascinating that a startup of any nature is really, really challenging and that core team of experts, of people that you trust so implicitly, it's absolutely essential to. To best set something up for its success. Um, now, one of the things that's really fascinating to me is that, you know, I would say I'm not a typical person in the biker community, probably making lots of assumptions there, but I looked at the mathing when I first, you know, stumbled across it and thought that that is amazing. This is the kind of bike that allows me to have that Jennifer Coolidge moment, sort of riding around Italy feeling extremely, extremely glamorous. But how has it been received by the broader and more stereotypical biker community?
- [16:10]
Seb Inglis Jones
Well, yeah, it's interesting you say that because we, I think, pretty unashamedly, you know, built the company around the idea that we wanted to attract the new. The new rider, you know, the kind of new generation of riders, because. Partly because, you know, if we're honest, the motorcycle community in the west has been slightly dying out. You know, the average age for motorcyclists in 2024 was 57. You know, it's almost entirely male. It's a lot of people who are very, very wedded to, you know, naturally, to this incredible heritage of motorcycling, which, you know, involves petrol engines, vibrations, noise, you know, the kind of the oil rag as you clean the button, all of that kind of stuff which Which I've completely bought into, you know, in the past. And so we thought, right, we've got to focus on the new rider and people who are not wedded to that, that sort of lineage. But the surprise for us when we came to the market, when we first went to Motorcycle Live, which is the UK's biggest motorcycle show, and launched our first bike, having just literally got it on the road for the first time, was that we got a really positive reception from the motorcycle community. And I think that is down to the fact that we have chosen to build our bikes in the UK at our factories in Coventry. That we are, the design is very, again, very Anglocentric. But also the fact that we, we made it clear from the start that we're not here to replace, you know, your big adventure bikes, your sports bikes. You know, we don't think electric is quite there yet. We don't think that's the sweet spot. Where we think it makes complete sense is in the low power kind of commuting space in cities in particular. And so I think that that much softer message of we're not here to kind of, you know, tread on your toes and take away your favorite bikes. We're here to kind of supplement the bike market with something that we think makes complete sense within its context. And I think those, you know, that was really positive message.
- [18:04]
Host
Wow. Because I think that ability to recognize that you can't be all things to all people actually avoids pissing people off, I suppose, in a funny kind of way.
- [18:14]
Seb Inglis Jones
Yeah, exactly. And I think too often, you know, EV players have tried to tell people that their love of noise and all the rest of it is sort of illegitimate. And it's not completely understandable. It's just that there are also benefits to electric. You know, once you might miss the, the horror, the tech. I'm sure neighbors and people in the countryside don't miss the kind of sound of Ducati's racing down the road. But, you know, you might miss that. But then you might begin to appreciate the silence, the peace, the kind of tranquility, the meditative element of riding. You might start focusing on your, you know, the environment around you. You might notice as you turn your bike on at five in the morning to, you know, in the sort of in the early hours that you're not pissing off your neighbors. You know, there's lots of stuff there, you know, even aside from the positive effects on the environment and the rest of it. So I just think you've got to be real about the benefits and also accept that there will be people who will just still be in awe of petrol engines and have a love for all the kind of heritage bikes and cars as I do.
- [19:18]
Host
That, I feel, is the humility that we need in the electrification discussion, generally, because cars and any sort of mobility is weird because on the one hand, they represent a very practical thing that you need to get from A to B. On the other hand, they are so imbued with emotion and they evoke loads of emotion and perhaps even more so when it comes to motorbikes as well. And I feel very certain. I might have told you this story before, but I don't think I really understood why people were so obsessed with motorbikes who are. Who are in the riding community until I was riding around the Cotswolds. The sun was shining. It was. The roads were really, really quiet. And I felt this is the closest I have ever felt to flying. This is unbelievable. And I thought, I'm convinced. I'm totally convinced. And then I looked at my speedometer and I was going 23 miles an hour. Little way to go there. But, you know, my mum would at least be proud that I'm not racing around. But that sort of. That feel of, okay, we know that we can't be all things to all people has also, it seems, really, really informed your scaling strategy, because you mentioned to me a few months ago that actually, you don't even look country by country. It's much more localized than that, perhaps even city by city. So walk us through that logic. And is that there to try and identify those really, really core customers for whom the Maven products will really resonate?
- [20:49]
Seb Inglis Jones
I will absolutely answer that question. I've just got to respond to the gliding thing, just because we've recently, we've been lucky to attract a few, a few kind of celebrity riders who've fallen in love with our bikes and got them. And two of those recently we've actually done short films with, one of whom is Ashley Walters, who's in adolescence and Top boy. And it's, you know, quite a man of the moment, GQ man of the year. The other was a celebrity chef called Tom Brown that we just. We just put a video out a few days ago and it's. It's been so. We've learned so much from them about what they enjoy about the bikes. Both of them work in very, very hectic worlds. One in acting, you know, Ashley Walters, like, super, you know, man the moment, but is actually quite an introvert and like a family man, lives like, on the east coast, you know, to sort of get away from the hectic world. And then Tom again works like in a, in a kitchen, you know, late night, like just. Absolutely, yeah, frenetic. Yeah. And both of them have found that when they put on their helmet at the end of the day, like, you know, they're not recognized and they're just gliding along in silence. And Ashley referred to it as flying. He said it's like skydiving, this moment where that you sort of jump out the plane and there's this and then suddenly you're just at peace. And that's exactly what they like about the experience of riding an electric bike in particular versus petrol. And you know, as I said, we're completely learning from, from them that neither of them had owned a motorbike before, you know, or had any experience. So that really, really resonates with me. So this sort of the city by city piece is actually, it's more to do with the fact that we have a. We're basically the first direct to consumer manufacturer, so we deliver and service all our bikes ourselves. And so, well, in which you do that, you can't, you know, it's very flippant to just go, right, we're going to launch across the whole of the US for example. You know, you're basically dealing with a continent of countries, of individual states there. And so we think about cities because we think about how far our vans can travel to, you know, give good service, good delivery times. And so it's much more of a kind of, you know, sort of slowly, slowly. So we're now across the whole of the UK and France and Germany, but in the US it's just like the tri state region and Los Angeles and you know, the west coast, California, because. Because it's just too big a kind of place to conquer all in one. So, yeah, it's much more to do with that. Naturally we gravitate towards cities because there's higher population density, but also because that's where our bikes make the most sense. So, you know, I can't remember what the figure is. Last time I looked, about 35% of our sales were in London in the UK. So, you know, just makes sense.
- [23:31]
Host
What I have to ask you, you know, you've obviously been on this journey for a number of years. You found this company. What does it feel like when you see someone random on one of your bikes?
- [23:41]
Seb Inglis Jones
Best feeling in the world. And it was always, it was one of the. I said, you know, my founder and I, ages ago, we said that one of the best feelings that we were looking forward to was when we were, you know, at the lights on a bike and then someone else pulls up on one of our bikes next to us and they don't know who we are, you know, obviously. And we said the minute that happens, we must just drop everything down and get a bottle of champagne and celebrate. And even now, today, when I, particularly when I'm actually driving, I commute to. From Coventry to the factory, some based in London. And occasionally bikes will. Our bikes will just overtake us, you know, like one or two. And I still get a thrill every time I see them, you know, even though there are more, not more of them about now. So it's really, it's very satisfying. It's also really satisfying, actually. Every day our office kind of overlooks the factory floor. So just seeing bikes coming off the line, you know, just. If you love cars and bikes, seeing them being kind of built from scratch is magical.
- [24:40]
Host
It is magical. And I remember, I mean, I was an automotive engineer for quite a short period of time and one of the things I worked on, and actually I worked on it over a summer internship and it was called an air curtain. And basically it's like a tunnel that directs air around the front corner of a vehicle with the intention that ideally it reduces dragon. But every time I saw a corner of a car with an air curtain, I was there once. And seeing that physical thing and having that tangible connection to your work is unrivaled as a feeling. And I think that's the beauty of engineering and manufacturing here in the uk. Getting to see your stuff out and.
- [25:20]
Seb Inglis Jones
About it absolutely is. I mean, sometimes it can be a bit of a curse. You really start to hang on the feedback of your customers, you know, just completely of its own volition. A kind of maving owners club, you know, formed on Facebook and, you know, sort of grew quite, quite big. And just seeing people's comments, you know, mainly you get good posts with people just sharing photos of their journeys and their bikes as they have a, you know, cup of coffee somewhere. But, you know, in the early days of, people would say, oh, you know, not so sure about this, or, you know, why don't maybe create more stories, whatever it might be. Just you become quite sort of fastidious.
- [25:58]
Host
Yeah.
- [25:59]
Seb Inglis Jones
About sort of what you can do to improve, you know, to always improve the product, I guess. Yeah, you can't have one without the other.
- [26:07]
Host
Now, you alluded to this slightly earlier on, but the perception of bike in the UK is slowly changing. But if you look in other countries across Europe, certainly if you look in Southeast Asia in particular, biking is totally different. There are way more bikes on the road than there are cars. For example, do you think that the UK can ever get to that sort of density of bikes? Because at the end of the day, it would totally reduce the traffic on the road, it would reduce the amount of space taken up by cars. But we are somewhat cursed by unpredictable weather. We are.
- [26:41]
Seb Inglis Jones
Although there's always that great stat about how the UK buys more convertible sports cars per capita than anywhere else in the world. So we're clearly, I don't know, we're more up to optimistic than we give ourselves credit for, I think. So the main reason why people predominantly buy bikes in Southeast Asia and China, it's the most popular form of transport, is because of the price. It's a much more attainable form of transport. And actually bikes are super capable. I mean, most people in these countries are riding around on low capacity bikes, but high capacity bikes, you can do absolutely everything other than obviously transport a family around. So you sort of understand why those countries have more bikers per capita. But I do think people are waking up to the value of two wheels generally. So the EV revolution has brought E bikes, it's brought electric push scooters. And we see electric scooters and electric motorbikes as a natural and more capable step up from those. And there's now a completely new customer who's never, never engaged with the world of the sort of niche world of quite macho world of motorcycling before, is looking at this space as a practical solution. You've also got to remember that the average commute in the UK is 6.7 miles. The vast majority of trips are done solo. Traffic has become worse, public transport's become less reliable, it's become slower. We got a third party study that identified that our bikes produce less carbon, sorry, per mile per capita than even the London Underground. So, wow. It is faster, it is more affordable. You know, our bikes are cheaper by far on a monthly basis than an Oyster card, for example. It's greener. I just think you need to get people riding and test driving for the first time. And I just guarantee that you won't go back because you can reliably get across London, in the whole of London IN like 20, 30 minutes on a bike in a way that you just cannot with any other form of transportation. And look, it does rain in this country, does get cold. You can put on a, you can put on a jacket, you know, if you're doing relatively short distances. It is not the end of the world. And lots of this is why you see that people who ride in urban areas tend to ride all year round, whereas people who ride recreation in the countryside, not so much, which is completely understandable. So I think you can see more people on bikes. You can see a new customer who's come up from a sort of E bike or a push scooter and just wants a bit more capability. And absolutely there are benefits in terms of pollution, congestion. You can fit like 10 motorbikes in a car parking space. Even big. This whole sort of EV SUV revolution is not great. People are getting cars that are much bigger than they need to, that require considerably more resources and raw components than bikes do. But look, the most important message that I would get across to anyone is the, Is the fact that it's fun. Commuting is, is a cursed word. People do not enjoy being sort of shoved into the armpit of a stranger on a train or sitting in, minus traffic in a car. And by contrast, and this was the big surprise to me when I got my first bike, was the fact that every single morning and evening it was a joy to commute and I'd look forward to it as well, you know, and I think that I love cars as well. I love driving so much, but I, I think riding is, is, is the next level in terms of enjoyment. I, I would really, I don't know anyone who rides a bike or scooter and motorbike or a scooter and doesn't still find it an event, essentially. Hop on it.
- [30:18]
Host
That fun is, is so important. And when you're talking about Ashley Walters and Tom Brown and they describe that feeling of flying, you've also got that, that feeling of peace. And it's quite a mindful thing because you absolutely cannot be doing anything else.
- [30:34]
Seb Inglis Jones
It's hugely mindful. And it's really, it's very sort of differentiating from the car. When I'm in my car going, which I love to, and from commentary, and I'm listening to a podcast, I've got a heated seat and I'm, I'm, you know, I'm eating and I'm sort of drinking, you know, whatever it is, you're in your sort of your cocoon of comfort and on a bike, you're, you're, you know, obviously you're focusing on the road much more as well, you know, much more conscientious. You've got none of that. You've got the wind, you've Got the, the temperature, you've got to feel it, you know, it's, you're left very much in your thoughts and just thinking about the kind of sensation of riding. And that is a much more meditative. I think meditative is the right word, but also calming experience. You know, if you've got a 20 minute commute between the office and home and you left work angry, by the time you get home, you won't be because you've been kind of just focusing and you know, in a very singular way for that 20 minutes. And that's not the case in a car. In a car you're probably on the phone, you know, having a call with your friend about how crap the day was.
- [31:33]
Host
Oh, yeah. And then also if you get stuck in traffic, you're then thinking about all the things that you should be doing in that time. And you'd factored being home 15 minutes ago.
- [31:42]
Seb Inglis Jones
It's not. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [31:44]
Host
Not a fun thing. But beyond the fun, you've described some really compelling facts there, so I just want to repeat them back to you. There's less carbon per mile than traveling on the underground. Cheaper than an Oyster card if you were using the underground to commute every day. 10 motorbikes in one parking space. These are ridiculous, incredibly compelling reasons for us to encourage more motorbiking. But do you feel adequately supported by say the UK government or from various policies to encourage uptake? Is there anything that you would like to see in addition to what currently exists?
- [32:19]
Seb Inglis Jones
It's a good question. I mean, one of the big blows to us when we entered the market was, I think was about, about a year in the government reduced the plug in grant from 1500 pounds to £500. So we right away we lost, you know, 1000 pounds on every bike we sold essentially. And so we had to put the prices up, which was a blow to customers. We eventually then put them down as we sort of, you know, got economies of scale in the company. But yes, is that is the, is the, you know, the long and short of it. There are countries where the subsidies for EV purchases are much, much higher. You know, our European peers get much better subsidies in France and Germany. There are countries like the US where there, the governments are pouring huge amounts an investment into manufacturing operations to encourage companies to, you know, to build their products in the US and there's none of that in the uk. So you would have heard of the IRL IRA funding in the US where essentially the government was pitching to us to, you know, come and set up in a Factory factory in the US with all of the expenses paid and a percentage of our cost of goods for the next 10 years. I mean, you know, if we were in a more mature state at the time, I think it would have been very hard to ignore that offer. And there's just none of that in the UK and you know, obviously we're in a much tougher economic environment over here in terms of the cost of our debt, in terms of our borrowing, all that kind of stuff, you know, and the effects of COVID and so on and so forth. But there's definitely not the same positive, optimistic, growth orientated attitude towards the, the EV industry in this country. You know, we're not currently championing cell manufacturer motor manufacturing the way that some, you know, countries are, that some countries are setting a strategy around being, being the, the, the sort of economic center of these, these industries, which is not at all. And we, we currently about 65% of our bikes by volume are made in the UK. We, we would love in theory for 100% to be made in the UK and to champion, you know, the best British motors, the best British battery cells, but we just don't make those things at the moment.
- [34:30]
Host
Yeah. And you know, I've had various conversations over the past couple of weeks and I found out that here in the UK businesses, it's like the most expensive electricity for businesses like pretty much globally. And there are many countries that, you know, if you're going to set up a manufacturing operation, you'll be given heavily subsidized electricity or you'll be supported in your build costs or what have you exactly as you're probably offered for the US And I did an interview with the Climate Change Committee a couple of weeks ago and I was like, oh, where do you really see the opportunity for the UK to really lead in the clean energy transition? And I was so disappointed when he said professional services I like. Oh, so boring. What about manufacturing and really fostering those sorts of things. So certainly your, your.
- [35:23]
Seb Inglis Jones
Wishes are unique. It's actually worth saying we're lucky. Our factory has got just solar panels cover the entire roof. So we moved into it in that state. So we're very lucky in terms of our kind of subsidizing there, otherwise it'd be a complete nightmare. But it is worth saying that we have received an incredibly good welcome from kind of local government in the area. So in terms of help with finding factories, with, you know, recruiting in the first instance, with looking out for loans and grant funding, all that kind of stuff. So there's the willingness to support in the local area and a lot of pride in Coventry and the West Midlands about the manufacturing kind of prowess. You know, still a lot of engineering companies are headquartered here. It's just we don't make, you know, the. The stuff. And so there's. I think there's that, there's the willingness, there's the appetite. That's just. That's just not ultimately the kind of focus from the top.
- [36:16]
Host
I forget his name, but there is a guy in Coventry City Council who's like head of innovation or something like that, and he is incredible. And he's not the only person that's really shaping some of the projects that Coventry City Council support and also West Midlands more generally. They have a big vision in that part of the world.
- [36:36]
Seb Inglis Jones
They do, but also it's justified insofar as you go down any of the scriptures streets here and they don't look like anything, but behind each, you know, gate is. Is a. They're amazing factories, designers, engineers, everything around. We're just, you know, we're next to jlr. Polestar's just down the road where our old factory used to be. I mean, there's just. There's a huge amount of talent and, and prowess and knowledge, and I think we're not capitalizing that on the right way. And, you know, there are certain specific things like the battery, the gigafactories and stuff that do need to come in order to kind of onshore a lot of that expertise. But, yeah, it's definitely not a focus, unfortunately, government.
- [37:16]
Host
So when you first went to Coventry, I have to ask you this. How intimidated were you by the ring road?
- [37:25]
Seb Inglis Jones
I am not a thrill seeker. The one area in which I do not suffer from confidence is in driving and biking, as my nine points on my license will attest to.
- [37:34]
Host
So, oh, my God.
- [37:35]
Seb Inglis Jones
An absolute joy. Not. Not a challenge.
- [37:39]
Host
I have cried on that ring road many, many times. It is. I don't even understand how it works. It defies. It defies logic.
- [37:46]
Seb Inglis Jones
Yeah. I don't know how they think that the car merging isn't going to eventually enter some sort of crash, but, yeah.
- [37:52]
Host
I mean, for anyone who can master it, I salute you. Okay, we are coming towards the end of this podcast and I wonder. I actually, I shouldn't even ask you this question because I know you're not going to be able to tell me very much, but what's in store for the next five years of mathing?
- [38:11]
Seb Inglis Jones
Yes, it's a good question. Do you tend to like to be fired but look, I think just in general terms, our goal is to, you know, we don't want to be a niche British manufacturer. Our desire and our kind of mission as a company is to get as many people onto electric transport as possible. We think that the key way to do that is through two wheels. And so it won't surprise you to hear that we are looking to expand the use cases for our bikes and to cater for all bikers and all kind of two wheel transport out there. I think the key thing for us is that we will only ever do that with the latest technology that makes sense. So as I said, you won't see us making some sort of crazy or trying to make some crazy recreational bike at the moment because battery density isn't there. But the move towards solid states happening, greater capacity, you know, greater functionality. And so, yeah, you will see more products, you will see more use cases. And I think us really pushing the boat when it comes to our kind of R and D and actually driving kind of progress in the space.
- [39:20]
Host
What I could see happening there is that you were picturing, I don't know, the PowerPoints or the decks that you've got that are marked strictly confidential of future product portfolios. Hmm. How much can I say? But what's very evident is that the intention is to expand the portfolio when it makes sense, such that more and more people can enjoy the fun of two wheeled electrification.
- [39:41]
Seb Inglis Jones
It is. And also actually as well as kind of product, talking about product pipeline. It's very easy. But I think the thing that we're trying to do just as hard is to invite more people into the motorcycling space. I think we're trying to overcome this idea that motorbikes are for, you know, men in leather jackets who like speed. And instead trying to work out how we can, how we can clearly communicate all the benefits that you and I have been talking about, you know, on this podcast, and make it make the tribe broader, you know, and more inclusive. And I think that's really. Yeah, I think that's just as important.
- [40:20]
Host
And one thing that I should ask you based on that, are you still offering the thing where you cover the cost of people's CBT training?
- [40:27]
Seb Inglis Jones
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's our new rider program. Yeah. Precisely for that reason, you know, I mean there's, there are, there aren't that many barriers luckily to getting on bikes because they, they are, because they're low power. They only need the cbt, which takes like half a day to get as, you know. So, yeah, the deal is that if you do get one of our bikes and you've just done your license, since we will cover the cost of that to encourage people to get onto it. But look, I mean, even if you don't end up getting one of the bikes, I just encourage you to go and do your CBT and to spend some time on bikes, because, as I said, I just don't think you'll be going back.
- [41:00]
Host
Yeah. And you know what? I've done my CBT twice, which I'm sure many people say, why haven't you done your full license? That's illogical. But I was quite intimidated about going the first time and it was just the most joyful day. You have an instructor who is so. Wants you to succeed and wants to share this world of biking with you. And actually, I think it's also made me a better car driver because I am aware of what it.
- [41:23]
Seb Inglis Jones
Yeah, yeah. The way you, you know, you don't just sort of. When you're on a bike, you don't just take kind of green lights as red and saw through them, you know, without looking at the junctions. You know, you're thinking a lot more about everything. And that contributes to that kind of meditative state we talked about earlier. A lot more kind of focused. But no, definitely makes you a better. Definitely makes you a better driver.
- [41:44]
Host
Yeah.
- [41:45]
Seb Inglis Jones
And more conscientious of cyclists and bikers and kind of everyone else who's on the roads. You know, pedestrians.
- [41:52]
Advertiser
Yeah.
- [41:52]
Host
I'm definitely much more patient, much more aware, and I then feel very smug in my. I'm an aware driver. Anyway, this has been absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much for giving up your time to come and chat with us. We will be watching the Maven journey with a keen eye because it's just so fantastic to see the growth that you've experienced over the past four or five years. It's amazing. So thank you so much.
- [42:18]
Seb Inglis Jones
It's an absolute pleasure and absolutely love what you guys do as well in kind of driving the EV in general and opening people's eyes up to all of the benefits and all the different kind of products that are out there weird and wonderful. Thank you.
- [42:29]
Host
Thank you so much to Seb for joining us for this episode of the Fully Charged show podcast. I personally adored the fact that 65% of their bikes by volume are produced here in the uk, and the carbon emissions per mile, if you look at the overall carbon emissions that go into making that bike, are less than travelling on the London Underground. That is very, very compelling. But that's it. That's all that we have time for. Before you go, if you could do us the honour of giving us a like a comment, a subscribe or sharing with a friend, then we will love you forever. We cannot tell you how truly, truly valued it is. Thank you to Katie from our team who'll be editing this particular episode. Thank you to you for listening. So if you have been thank you for listening.
- [43:14]
Advertiser
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