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- [00:00]
A
Foreign hello and welcome to another fabulous episode of the Everything Electric podcast. Today we're talking about byd, pretty soon to become probably one of the biggest car companies in the world. I'm hedging my bets a bit there because, you know, don't want to be inaccurate like I've never done that before. Anyway, BYD Global company doing incredible developments of battery technology, of electric cars, of static batteries which we will hear about, of incredibly fast charging, which we'll also hear about. And today's guest is Sajid Hassan, who is the Chief Product officer for BYD in Australia and New Zealand. And Australia is really a kind of a test bed I'm now understanding for particularly Chinese cars. You know, they'll ex, they will export them to China before we get them in this country. So they're getting a lot of stuff that will eventually come to Europe and maybe Canada. Interestingly, that's going to be very interesting. Think there's some moves afoot to remove the ridiculous, sorry, the very sensible tariffs on Chinese vehicles in the North American continent. So you see, I'm being geographical rather than nationalistic, but it does sound like Canada are rethinking following in the footsteps of their near and rather difficult to deal with neighbor. But it's a fascinating company and they've done amazing things and I think it's a really interesting, really interesting episode. So I just wanted to mention that, I just wanted to introduce that, but also want to mention the, the Everything Electric show in Melbourne in Australia, which is taking place on the 14th, 15th and 16th of November, which is very, very soon. I have to check things so you can probably see it in the reflection in my glasses. There's nothing in there with dates. Dates don't stay in there. It's really rather embarrassing and awkward. Anyway, 14th, 15th, 16th in Melbourne. It's going to be amazing show. There's going to be hundreds of electric cars there, hundreds of test drives, amazing displays, incredible people speaking there, really interesting people we're interviewing or we're on panels with and all that sort of thing. So it's worth toddling along to if you're in the vicinity of the Melbourne metropolis. But no more of that. Let's get on with it. Please welcome to the Everything Electric podcast, Sajid Hasan.
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Our three free YouTube channels on EVs and cleantech are funded by our fun packed test drivetastic events in Farnborough, London, the southwest, the North, Melbourne and Sydney. Next up, Everything Electric Melbourne and new. For UK viewers. You can buy a battery electric vehicle or More at everythingelectric store.
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A
So, Sajid, thank you so much for joining us. This is, I just think this is really the company you work for. Really extraordinary story. I mean, can you just do a sort of potted history of your role at BYD and then BYD's role? Because it is just, I'll just quickly say I saw a BYD car at the Geneva motor show in 202009 and I went, well, they won't sell in the West. That shows my incredible intuition about the, the, the automotive industry. Yeah.
- [03:47]
C
Oh, look, I, I don't blame you for that. I don't think anyone could have seen, I guess, the, the, the rise in, in BYD or, or, or the other Chinese OEMs for that matter. But I guess. Well, thank you for having me on the show, Robert. It's a, it's an absolute pleasure to be here and, and I guess I'm quite fortunate to be in a very exciting role. So as the Chief Product Officer for BYD Australia and New Zealand, it's my role to oversee the implementation of a product strategy and pricing strategy and work together with the engineering teams in Australia and in China to bring to life, I guess, the products that we sell in Australia and New Zealand and see through those product strategies and passing strategies for both the BYD and also the Denzel brand that will be launching very soon.
- [04:41]
A
Yes, of course, yeah. But I mean, I think one of the interesting things for UK viewers definitely is the fact that you, that, well, really the first time I saw a lot of BYD cars was in Australia, right hand drive. And then, you know, that and, and if you look at the size of our two markets, the UK market is much bigger in terms of cars. But the fact that BYD have decided to, you know, because they've got to build right hand cars, I mean, it's a, you know, but right hand drive cars, it's a, it's not, you know, they're set up, I'm assuming they're set up to build left hand drive cars in all the factories and then they go, oh God, those Australians and British people, they're annoying. And New Zealanders not forgetting them.
- [05:24]
C
I think many, many OEMs are feeling like that.
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A
Yes, yes, it's, yes, we are annoying, I admit that. But, but, but it is, it's been interesting to see how the Australian market feels like there was Chinese brands came to Australia first. I'm sure I'm wrong, but that's what it, it sort of my perception of it is. I don't Know whether that's true.
- [05:46]
C
Well, we started early. Yeah. We started selling Atto 3 was the first model that we sold in Australia and so that was in 2022. I'm not entirely sure of the market entry timing for, For Europe, but it could have been after.
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A
I think it was after that.
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C
But I could be wrong.
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A
Yeah. Someone will correct us.
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C
It'd be close. Yeah.
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A
Yeah.
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C
But yeah, Australia is a particularly important market for BYD globally. As for as. As far as. As far as export markets go, we are one of the largest.
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A
Right.
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C
And within the Asia Pacific region, that's where the largest market for in terms of sales volume and first, I guess selling in Australia, it's. And developing cars for the Australian market. It's a real nice proving ground.
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A
Right.
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C
And yeah, like it's a very competitive market and Australians and the Kiwis have very particular tastes which are somewhat aligned to European markets as well.
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A
Yeah.
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C
So in terms of vehicle durability and suspension and chassis tuning technology, the adas, all of those, those features, if they can get it right in the Australian market, then it's a real, I guess hat. Feather in the hat for. Yeah. And confidence booster for selling in. In other markets because Australia is quite mature.
- [07:27]
A
Right. Yes, that's. That is very true actually. You're right. When you think of sort of global markets, you know, Australia. Well, it had an automotive industry in Australia. General Motors and Ford were building cars there. Even when I first came to Australia, that was still happening and. But I mean that has changed now. So I mean, I think in that sense it's a, it's a unique place, isn't it? In a way to. As regards. You know, I don't know what percentage of new vehicles. Well, it's basically 100% of new vehicles for sale in Australia are from somewhere else.
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C
That certainly is the case now. The leading country of. So we. There's a few, few main countries that we get most of our vehicles from. So Thailand, where we get a lot of double cab loots being produced.
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A
Right.
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C
And they're very popular in Australia. The. The largest or the second largest kind of interchanges segment vehicle segment in the Australian market. So Thailand, Japan, Korea, Japan and China now. So China's, I think basically overtaken Korea and pretty close to overtaking Japan as the second largest source of vehicles.
- [08:51]
A
Right. Because I mean it's just, it's. Can you just go through the size of byd? It is staggering because I actually, look, there was some. Completely unrelated to this discussion, something I looked up the other day about vehicle you know, another company that was selling electric vehicles in China and it was like they'd sold a hundred thousand. You said you go, wow, that's amazing. I didn't know they'd sell that many. Then you look at how many BYD sold that year. I think it was 4.1 million in China.
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C
It's just, I think Last year in 2024, BYD in China sold 4.2 new energy vehicles. 4.2 million new energy vehicles. 2 million.
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A
Yeah.
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C
And the forecast for, for this year is 4.6.
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A
Right. So it is going, it is going.
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C
Up, which is, it's still going up.
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A
Yeah, yeah. Wow.
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C
And I think in, in, in total over the consecutive years we're close to 14 million. Close to 14 million global sales.
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A
Yeah. Which is, yeah, chunky. I mean also for a company that didn't exist really 20 years ago did, I mean, 25 years ago. It's not, it's not hundreds of years old. Very, very new company.
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C
Yeah, that's it. Like the growth has been exponential. So yeah, we're close to hitting 14 million total sales but the 10 million vehicle was only sold last year. So.
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A
Right.
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C
So and then, yeah, prior to that, you know, it probably took a lot longer to get to the five minute mark.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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C
The first vehicle that BYD started produced the, the F3 was in 2005. So we only started making cars in 2005.
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A
Right.
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C
And the first plug in hybrid electric vehicle was in 2008. So.
- [10:43]
A
Right. But then, well, so intriguingly my in laws, because my wife is Australian, that two of them have BYDs and I, it's got nothing to do with me. They made that decision over lockdown when we couldn't go to Australia, you know, during the pandemic. So we, so they, you know, because I'm often accused of. I bet that's because they talk to you and I guess really isn't that I had nothing to do with it but my sister in law has a ATTO3 and my niece has a dolphin and you know that's like, they've just got, and they call them cars. They're not interested. I think this is what I really fascinates me about that their, their particular experiences. They just got cars and they drive them. That's, that's the, that's the peak of their interest in it. You know they need something to get around, go to the shops, to go to things, do whatever they do and they use a car and they don't go, yeah, I've got an electric car. It's just a car know, which I think is what, what I'm hoping we reach that point, you know, fairly soon.
- [11:47]
C
Well, yeah, they're on the early side of the adopter curve. So yeah, the, I think we're about 11, 11% EV mix of the total sales in Australia. So. But it's been growing. Last year was around 9% right? Yeah. But I think over the course of the next few months and towards the end of 2026 that's really going to boom. There's just a lot more competition, a lot more EV offerings coming on and vehicle affordability for EVs is also dropping. So we've basically reached EV price parity with ICE powertrains.
- [12:26]
A
Right. Is that the case in Australia? So that basically if you're choosing between the two price isn't the, isn't the argument. They're basically roughly the same cost.
- [12:36]
C
We are basically there now. So you're getting, you can get an EV for a similarly priced ICE car, petrol car or diesel car.
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A
Right.
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C
And so there's that parity on the initial purchase price and then when you factor in the, the ongoing running cost.
- [12:52]
A
Yeah.
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C
The reduced servicing cost, it's. Yeah it's a, it's a big win in favor of, of the evening.
- [13:00]
A
And I mean also I think those early completely legitimate fears, I've always, I've never not understood them. You know, I had them as well. But how long will the battery last? Will the car, you know, is the car going to be any good after five years or whatever? All those things I think have slowly been put to bed. I mean I did check that you've got a traction battery warranty of eight years. Is that or 160,000 K. I mean that's sort of, you know, that's better than you'd get on a combustion engine.
- [13:28]
C
Yeah. So like. Yeah, warranty, you know we've got a bumper to bumper warranty for six years for the whole vehicle and for the whole.
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A
Right.
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C
Eight years for the traction battery. But you know what like independent testing across the industry, you know this is not just for Australia but globally has found that battery longevity has far exceeded the initial expectations.
- [13:48]
A
Yeah.
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C
And in many cases the, the battery is outlasting the vehicle itself.
- [13:55]
A
Yeah.
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C
And there's still plenty like the state of health is still, is still healthy. Yeah. So and one of the key benefits of BYD and the technology employs is its LFP blade battery. So it's free from, free from nickel because it's focusing on lithium iron phosphate and it has a very, one like this high life cycle count so up to 5,000 full cycles of charging and discharging as well as greater stability at wide ranges of temperatures as well as like a wider discharge and charge rate width compared with nmc, nickel, metal nickel, manganese, cobalt. Batteries.
- [14:49]
A
Yeah. I mean I think it's important to remind people who may not know that BYD were initially a battery company that then made cars rather than a car company that went oh, how do we use batteries? I think BYD knew how to use, make and use batteries from the get go.
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C
Yeah. The tagline for BYD at least by Luke Todd who was one of the pioneers for BYD in Australia. He was describing BYD is the. The biggest company or the biggest brand that you've never heard of.
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A
Yeah.
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C
When you launched in Australia and yeah many people didn't know that BYD was making the batteries for Motorola and Nokia phones back in the 90s and the early 2000s. Yeah. And many people probably don't know that we were involved in the rail industry and well yeah, we make our own vehicle batteries and we sell those vehicle batteries to other OEMs, we make our own semiconductors, we have our own minds, there's a lot of things. And we're now moving more and more into the new energy or just the energy business. So we've got our stationary battery energy storage solutions and yeah I guess with vehicles and as we move towards V2G equipped vehicles charging and the bi directional charging it's going to complement the whole. It's not just cars that we're making, it's basically mobile power plants.
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A
Yeah.
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C
That can power your home and support the grid.
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A
So that is, is that something now that is happening with like the models that you're producing now? Are they built, ready to be bi directional in effect, is that part of the plan?
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C
That's a timely question in fact. So we have actually just recently announced a couple of trial programs that we've. That we've started with Origin Energy and Amber who are both in the energy space as energy wholesalers and retailers. So that trial program is using Atto 3 vehicles. So it's entirely possible that you could get your sister in law involved in these.
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I'm going to tell her yes, I'm definitely telling her.
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C
So these lucky customers will be able to install a bi directional charger in their home on that trial program and use the 803 to charge the vehicle in the off peak times whilst it's very cheap. And then when it's in the peak or energy peak consumption is High and the power prices are high. They can actually switch off from the grid and use the vehicle battery to power their home or feed it back to the grid. And there's an element of arbitrage that some customers on the Amber program will, they be, will be able to take advantage of and.
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A
Right, so they could actually sell power. Right?
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C
Yeah. At higher prices than they actually purchased it for. Yeah, they got it for free from the solar.
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A
Well, that's what I was going to say.
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C
Installation of solar industry.
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A
Yeah, my sister, my sister in law has solar and yes. So I mean she was. It is that thing that you'd probably be in this country if you didn't have solar. You would be encouraged to charge a car at night when our electricity is much cheaper. You would be on a variable tariff, you know. But that thing in Australia is. She just said just plug it in in the day because she doesn't have to pay for that. But it's very. Yeah, no, that is, that is extraordinary because I mean that has been the next step that I've been waiting for. I think I probably heard about vehicle to grid in like 2012 at a conference in Amsterdam or something. I don't even know. But you know, it's been talked about for over a decade and it's not yet become a sort of commonplace thing. But I think it will start once it's technologically easier and a bit cheaper. I think I've got a very early vehicle to grid system here which was in relation with Nissan Leaf and it was a really expensive unit that only worked with certain models of Nissan Leaf and it was a Chademo connection. It was much too high powered. You, you don't need 50 kilowatts to run your fridge. But it's now getting to a point where. Right. Oh, okay. This is, I can, I could envisage this working in many households.
- [19:19]
C
100%. There's, there's a few, there's a few barriers that we need to overcome. So yeah, in, in Australia at least there's only one state at the moment, the South Australian state that legally supports installation of vehicle, vehicle degree charges or bi directional charges. And in residential applications.
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A
Right.
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C
The other states are I guess on their way to legalizing it.
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Right.
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And then I guess, yeah, the cost of the bi directional charger is still. Because it's still in the, the, the infancy of the, the technology. It's still quite expensive but with additional competition and more charges being developed that, that price will come down.
- [20:00]
A
Yeah, I mean that's because that is the Interesting thing about it, which is in a, in effect something that affects nations all around the world is the, is a lot of the barriers that we're seeing now to adopting newer technologies are legislative, not technological. The technology you could just go, look, you put that on the wall and you switch it on, I say that's done. Whereas. Well, hang on. Because there's this legislation that isn't been. I mean that's big. The big problem we've got here, it's all to do with grid legislation and the legal framework that the grid operates under is, you know, that's the barrier which is very, it's very frustrating for the end user. But so now the other thing I read recently is that BYD is become. Is it the top, the. Oh, it's the top seller of electric vehicles in Australia. Have you reached that point yet?
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C
We've achieved that title in a few months where we came out on top. So I guess the closest competitor is the. Is Tesla.
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A
Yeah.
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C
So I think in the month of April and August and there was another month where we beat them outright for EV sales in those months. But year to date, up to, up to September sales, we at about 17000 EV sales and there are 22, 000.
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A
Actually over the whole year.
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C
That's just. Yeah, for pure battery electric vehicle sales, if we add in our plug in hybrid sales then we, we take the lead. So yeah, when it comes to new energy, new energy vehicle sales, yes, BYD is the number one industry because the.
- [21:42]
A
Other one is, I mean the thing that I was, you know, first went to Australia And I think 1989 and the thing I remember that I'd never witnessed before was like being in a traffic jam where all the vehicles were pickup trucks or utes. You know, I think they did exist here, you know, one or two of them, but we just didn't have them in any European country. It's just not a thing. I knew it was in America, but that is the shark hybrid. So I'm often a little critical of plug in hybrids and hybrids because essentially they're, you know, in my purest world they're still petrol cars that might go further on a liter of fuel but they still burn petrol. But I'm putting that, that bigotry to one side because I think the BYD shark, which I've seen in the, in the metal is. I can just see that it's just beautifully positioned to be popular in Australia. I just, I just think, oh, people will love that. And I think that's been born out, isn't it? I mean, I think it's been quite a popular vehicle from what I can gather.
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C
Yeah, we're quite fortunate to have launched this product. I guess the combination of the timing, the packaging, the specs and just the market dynamics and the desirability of UTE in Australia, everything's lined up nicely. And I guess maybe just to like allay some of your concerns around the plug in hybrid nature of this vehicle. Yeah, the thing is with BYD's DMO, so dual mode off road super hybrid platform, it's actually an electric first plug in hybrid. So there's actually, there's a few different executions of plug in hybrid that can be either more electrically skewed or more petrol ice diesel skewy. And so ours swings towards the much more electric skewed. So.
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A
Right.
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C
The vehicle can actually just be driven entirely on electric power alone.
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A
Right.
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C
If you, if you're doing trips, basically it has up to like 70km EV driving range. Right. So if your commute or your usage is within that, within that range, it can be used entirely on electric vehicle, on electric power. What I notice a lot in like online commentary and forums is that people, there's a, there's a misconception and I think it's just a. Because this technology is very new, it takes some time for them and because there are different executions of that technology, it's not really well understood. But with our plug in hybrids, when the battery gets down to its low state of charge level, it's not that the electric motor just stops and then you're only driving on a, on a petrol engine and it just becomes a pure ICE vehicle. It doesn't work like that. The, the, the vehicle platform and the, the powertrain controller, the whole system, what works to ensure that the battery is kept topped up at a level using the petrol petrol motor as a generator to keep the, the battery charged so that it continues to drive like an electric vehicle.
- [25:05]
A
Right, so just to explain at that point then is the, there's no mechanical connection between the petrol engine and the wheels, if you like, it's just running as a generator or is it, is there always? Because there was, there were various flavors of hybrids on there.
- [25:22]
C
That's right. Well, so it can actually do both. So it's a right series, it's a series parallel plug in hybrid so it can act like a generator and just charge the battery or at the higher vehicle speeds, say on a freeway or 70km an hour or higher, the petrol engine can directly engage the drivetrain to drive the wheels when it's actually going to be more efficient at that operating speed.
- [25:51]
A
Also presume if you're towing something heavy that would be a.
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C
That's right, yeah. Yes, exactly. So it's going to actually prioritize the more efficient method of providing that energy and at those speeds it would then be the, the petrol motor. On the other hand, you've got series only top plug in hybrids like some of our competitors where it isn't able to only run the vehicle on electric and it's always going to have to run the ice motor to.
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A
Right.
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C
To move the vehicle.
- [26:20]
A
Yeah. Which is sort of like the early Prius I would guess it's that. It's that style of it. Although that would run for about a mile if you were really careful. I had one, I had several in fact. But yeah, that was. Yes. No, it isn't like that. You're right, we don't need to go into that. I mean one of the things I think was I did a bit of research about that and you can get 2 liters per 100km fuel efficiency. Is that somewhere around that which is, you know, in, in the numbers that I recognize about 117 miles to the gallon, which is extraordinary in a pickup truck. That is like bonkers. You know, if that is, if, if I've done my. That's me doing the maths so I could be wrong but it's. That's when the battery's above 25% so at that level you can get that kind of. And it's. And it's just. I mean I just wanted to find what. Because I had no idea what other pickups do. But. The ford Ranger averages 11.5 liters per 100 kilometers or 20 miles to the gallon, which is. And that's just a regular gasoline vehicle. You know that doesn't. That's not a hybrid. But that is, that is incredible difference. And I mean has that, has that been a popular seller in. Because I think, I think they'd only just come out the last time I was in Australia. So I didn't see a lot of them on the road, but I think they were there.
- [27:41]
C
Well, yeah, it's. It's doing pretty well. So there was actually in the month of June where it was the third best selling you in the Australian market outright.
- [27:54]
A
Right. Wow. And there's a lot of competition in that area. Wow, that's amazing.
- [27:58]
C
Yeah, a lot of competition and a lot of us like. Well, and a trench entrenched and established players.
- [28:03]
A
Yeah.
- [28:04]
C
So for it to perform that, well is quite surprising part of that achievement. And I think year to date we're at about 16,000 sales and. Right. It's making up a huge portion of our total sales in Australia.
- [28:19]
A
Yeah. I mean can you. If you got any data on. Because this is. There's been a. An article in some publication. I can't wish I could remember what it was but it was seeing that there was a. Very often people weren't plugging in plug in hybrids and this is cars in the UK this is not Utes in Australia. But they weren't bothering to plug them in and effectively they just became like petrol cars with a big battery that you're hauling around. I mean from, from your research and your understanding of the vehicles are. Are the owners plugging them in fairly regularly? Is that a thing they do?
- [28:57]
C
That's a. That's a really interesting question. It's hard to say. We haven't been monitoring that data. Although it's worthwhile that there's probably there'll be a point in time where we need to do some market research and we'll get some shark owners together and, and query them on their charging habits. But I guess kind of like what I covered before, if they. Even if they decide to treat it as a, as a nice vehicle and only.
- [29:25]
A
Yeah.
- [29:26]
C
And only top it up with. With petrol and not charge it. It's going to use the petrol engine.
- [29:32]
A
To charge the battery.
- [29:33]
C
Yeah, to charge the battery and it's not going to be in a situation where it's just lugging around a heavy battery and using the petrol motor to drive the vehicle. And I think maybe, I guess what you're referring to in the UK market where there was a problem where people weren't plugging in those. Charging those. Those vehicles and lugging around a heavy, a heavy battery for. For no reason and driving it on the petrol. Those. That's a, that's a problem for the series only hybrids where they cannot use the petrol engine to generate electricity for the. To. To drive it on electric power. So. And in that case, yes, you lose the benefit of that fuel consumption advantage and then the real world CO2 results. But it actually not be as good.
- [30:21]
A
Yeah. Yeah. The other thing that I think has been the challenge of the sort of transition to electrified vehicles to. Yeah. But specifically to battery electric vehicles is the servicing model. That in a sense when you buy. I just know this from experience when you bought a combustion car 30 years ago, even if you bought it new, you would expect to take it in for a service every six months and you'd need spare parts and oil changes and all that stuff. And that was just the world we lived in. It was normal. I moaned about the cost, but I never thought about it. And since I've had electric vehicles, I go, oh, dear, I haven't done that. I mean, I'm very bad example because I should have done more, but I have a Nissan Leaf, first generation, built in Japan, 2011 Nissan Leaf, and it's had so little work done on it until last year when it needed some welding done. But for the first time it's done 90,000 miles and it's never had, you know, it's had tires and some brake pads and a rear wiper blade. But that model. And I'm just. Because it sort of ties back into, you know, because you will have. I don't know how many showrooms and service centers you have in Australia now, but I was, I was aware. I kept seeing them. I was there last time. Oh, there's a BYD showroom. So you've definitely owned a few. But I mean, is that presumably that model. What I think I'm trying to get at is that BYD isn't burdened with the old legacy of we sell the car, but we actually make the money from servicing it type model.
- [31:59]
C
Yeah, I think that's. That's a fair. That's a fair assessment.
- [32:02]
B
We.
- [32:03]
C
We've got about 80 dealer sites in Australia at the moment and we're looking this. 90. 90 that should be operational, fully operational by the end of the year. So.
- [32:15]
A
Right.
- [32:15]
C
Yeah, so it's quite a. Quite a wide network and it was a extremely rapid expansion over the past. Yeah, past couple of years. But yeah, with an electric vehicle, there's far less moving parts than there is compared to an ICE vehicle. So, yeah, you're scheduling. Your servicing costs are kind of limited to. There's still going to be brake fluid, power steering fluid, brakes and tires, all those consumables. But yeah, you're not doing things like timing chains.
- [32:46]
A
Yeah. And transmissions, coolant and all those things. Pumps. Always remember. Your water pump's gone. Oh, God. Why is my water pump gone? Where's it gone? It's gone in the bin. We brought you. Put you a new one in. Yeah, yeah, those. I mean, it is noticeable. Noticeably different. Yes. I mean, I've always. I always have to put the caveat. And, you know, suspension, steering, lights, you know, all that gear is exactly the same as. And the wear and tear on those is just the same. It's just the Literally the engine and transmission is generally a lot simpler and with less moving parts in it. But, but I mean that is quite a. I think that's been a challenge for the big legacy brands, the big European brands that are used to that model where they go, well, we're going to be selling loads of water pumps after they bought the car, so, so let them have it cheaper. But I mean that, I mean it's combination of that. So are all, how many of those showrooms are service centered? They're not all service centers. Presumably that's a slightly different model, is it?
- [33:50]
C
Yeah, that's what, that's right. There's. That would be a combination of the, the forest stores and the retail partners which are our storefronts. I actually don't have the exact number of service locations but, but we've got a wide coverage across each state and that's continuing to grow.
- [34:10]
A
What about. Do you, you don't put in charges? I mean, do you put in charges at showrooms or at service centers? I mean, is that, is that BYD customers can use. Is that something you do currently?
- [34:22]
C
That isn't that, that hasn't been the case, but it's definitely in the plans.
- [34:29]
A
All right.
- [34:31]
C
Yeah. We, you might be aware that in China there's the, what BYD calls is the flash charges.
- [34:39]
A
Yes.
- [34:40]
C
For 1 megawatt DC fast chargers. So yeah, that's, that's definitely something that we've been discussing and studying the business case for that and I think for us to really take advantage or provide the customers the full benefit of, of our vehicles and the technology.
- [35:01]
A
Yeah.
- [35:02]
C
That, yeah. We need to start rolling out our own charging infrastructure.
- [35:07]
A
Right.
- [35:07]
C
To support the, the total national rollout.
- [35:12]
A
Yeah. Because can you tell, can you explain a bit about that? Imagine to someone who has no idea of how electric vehicles charge, because it is remarkable. I mean I was very, I was in China earlier this year and I was, I didn't witness it firsthand, but I kept talking to meeting people who got, oh, we charged this car in, you know, six minutes and they couldn't believe it and they were going, oh my God, it's insane. And I've seen videos of it. But can you explain what a 1 megawatt charger represents effectively?
- [35:40]
C
Yeah, I've been privileged to go and see one in person. Doesn't look as crazy as I thought it might. It looks very unassuming, like a regular, regular DC charger. But essentially the rate that it can charge at is so quick that it can add about 400km of range. In five minutes.
- [36:03]
A
And let's just backtrack to. Yeah. How long that would take, like on a. The early 50 kilowatt, like a 50 kilowatt feed to do 400. I can't even work it out, but it would be probably three quarters of an hour.
- [36:16]
C
So, yeah, a lot of the charges in. In Australia right now are about 150 kilowatts DC. So to charge A. Let's. We'll take the ATTO3 as an example, which has a 60 kilowatt hour. 60 kilowatt hour battery. To charge that from 10 to 80 would take about like half an hour.
- [36:38]
A
Yeah. So and with the one megawatt takes five minutes. Five minutes. Wow. I mean, it sort of is terrifying because that, you know, 1 megawatt is probably what a small town uses. It's quite a lot of power. Certainly a large housing estate. You know, it's a lot of. It's a lot of electricity. I mean, is that the one you saw? Because the couple of things that I've seen, which is where BYD have this huge advantage, is that the. You'll see a whole row of rapid charges and I'm talking 350 kilowatts, not one megawatt. But then behind the fence that's at the other side is a massive battery pack and that is charging all the time off the mains. And then that's what you're charging from that battery can deliver that power.
- [37:22]
C
That's right.
- [37:23]
A
More power than the mains can.
- [37:25]
C
It's basically acting like a ballast. So you're not trying to draw one megawatts from the grid, shoehorning it into the car at the. Instantaneously it's going to be doing that from the large battery pack. And because BYD is into the battery energy business, we've got the battery packs to be able to support those 1 megawatt charges.
- [37:46]
A
Right, and what. What model is it that can charge that? BYD manufacturer. But it's not. Is it a BYD or is it a. The other one? Yes, sorry. Thank you.
- [37:56]
C
So currently in. In China, it's available on the T, the Tongue and the Tongue L. Right. And the Tongue L is the Sea Lion 8 that will be sold in. In Australia.
- [38:12]
A
Right. And that will be capable of taking the one in Australia will be capable of taking one megawatt.
- [38:19]
C
Not at this stage.
- [38:21]
A
So. Right.
- [38:21]
C
The Sea Lion 8 version that we have is the Plug in hybrid.
- [38:26]
A
Right. Oh, yes, sorry, I do know. I know exactly what you mean. Yeah, yeah.
- [38:30]
C
But if we did introduce a EV version of the Sea Lion 8 then.
- [38:35]
A
Right.
- [38:35]
C
Could be. That could be capable.
- [38:41]
A
That is, that is a tis. Yeah, that's. I mean that was the thing about, I mean presumably you visited China as well. But I mean I was, that was the first time I've been in my life and it was very eye opening to see that, to see the aspects of the technology they had available. And, and I mean not just the cars, it was the, the thing that blew me was the scooters on the streets and the, the trains, you know, just everything.
- [39:07]
C
The buses.
- [39:09]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I, I think I've mentioned this before on the. I don't want to be a boar on the pod about it, but I was walking along a street with Elliot Richards who makes videos for us in China, he lives there and it was just so weird. And I said, I can hear birds in the trees. We were on a really busy street, it's full of traffic, hundreds of scooters going by. I could hear little chirruping birds up in the trees. And then we both heard, we both stopped because we heard an internal combustion engine and we kind of looked, we couldn't see anything then. And it was a red Ferrari went past us and we. Oh my God, there's a red Ferrari. And it was so loud and it was next to a massive truck that was electric and it made no noise at all. You know, it is bizarre, isn't it? I suppose. And we decided that was a, you know, that was wealth signaling that if you can afford to drive a red Ferrari in, in the middle of Shanghai, then you're very, very rich.
- [40:08]
C
Although I'll say that even the, the, the legacy brands in, in China have been feeling the pinch as the, the market has moved.
- [40:15]
A
Yeah.
- [40:16]
C
Heavily in favor of the, the, the Chinese brands just because of the, the, the growth ra. Evolution of the technology.
- [40:24]
A
Yeah. It must be a nightmare if you're running a showroom for a, you know, well established European brand and there are cars in being made in China that are better made, go much, much faster than anything you've ever made or thought of. You know, if you're looking at high end vehicles, it's insane how that technology is leaping forward so much.
- [40:48]
C
I've been fortunate to travel to China frequently over the past decade and a bit and kind of like at one, one and a half year intervals and just seeing how that market transitioned from an ice. You know, they were on Euro 3 emission regulations, you know, 10, 10, 15 years ago.
- [41:10]
A
Yeah.
- [41:10]
C
And each time I went back it just gradually. Yeah. The Noise pollution levels, the smog levels, everything was just getting better and better. Blue skies now and yeah, just like dead quiet and peaceful. You can hear the birds tweeting.
- [41:26]
A
Yeah.
- [41:27]
C
You can hear like bike tires just like, like scooter tires. It's just yes, that quiet.
- [41:34]
A
You can actually hear scooter tires crunching grit. That's very quiet if you can hear that. Well, I think also in comparison, you know, because I, I've spent a lot of time in Australia. There is definitely less enforced legislation on exhaust pipe noise in Australia than there is in the uk. I mean the loudest cars and motorbikes I've ever had where you hurt, your ears are ringing after a motorbike goes up the hill beside you. We lived in Brisbane for a lot of time and there's lots of hills and we were on a hill and some of the you know, racy cars and utes and motorbikes that went up that hill were just, and you're inside a house with a garden in between you thing and it's still oh my God and nice. So that's a big thing in Australia is boys and very noisy vehicles. So that's a challenge to sell electric cars to that, that sector of the market.
- [42:29]
C
You're right. I guess I think there'll always be a place in everyone's heart for those type of emotional, yeah, loud revving ice vehicles. But I think for the majority of the majority of the market there'll be, I guess a greater acceptance of the quiet and peace of.
- [42:53]
A
I mean that's something I wanted to ask you about the general perception, I mean because your staff at your showrooms and everything are going to have that first hand experience of people very often who've never driven an electric car, never been in one and they're going to come into the showroom because their neighbor's got one or the man up the road or their uncle or their sister in law and they go oh yeah, but what about, you know, that are you still getting a sort of anxious, negative, tentative first steps or are people, are you feeling a shift in attitude and people more confident?
- [43:26]
C
I'd be lying if, I'd be lying if I said that there wasn't any kind of apprehension or misconceptions around plug in hybrids and electric vehicle technology. That's still a very large thing in Australia but we're definitely saying that that mindset and the, the appetite and the, the curiosity, the curiosity opening up to, you know, trying an electric vehicle. And I think once people do get in, get behind the Wheel of one.
- [43:56]
A
Yeah.
- [43:56]
C
Or own one. Then, like, largely saying that. People saying that that would just. It would just be a continual repeat purchase. They won't go back. Just the driving, the. Just the driving feel, the instantaneous response. It's like driving. And it's like driving a petrol car in second gear all the time. Like, it's just so.
- [44:18]
A
The.
- [44:18]
C
The performance and the response is so immediate and the running cost, like you get all that performance at a fraction of the running cost. Yeah, that's so. Yeah. Personally, that's.
- [44:30]
A
I mean, also be a thing. I mean, I was sort of looking at houses last time I was in Australia, just like on a. I'd be on a freeway, on a motorway or whatever, and you could see a big housing estate over to your right. And then you go, oh, my God, there's a house there with. That house has got no solar panels. You know, you notice that one because all of them do and everybody's got them. And it's. You know, and I think it's very. I talked to someone last year, you know, it crosses all political. The whole political spectrum. Doesn't matter what your political outlook is. If you can afford to put. If you've got a house and you can afford to put solar panels on, you'll put them on because it makes economic sense. But I would imagine there's. That's because it's so successful and such high penetration in Australia. The next logical step is, oh, I could put some of that juice on my roof into my car. Wow. That has to be a consideration, I would imagine.
- [45:20]
C
Yeah, exactly that. And as V2G becomes more.
- [45:26]
A
Yeah.
- [45:26]
C
Like more widespread across Australia and we. We have a lot of households that have more than. More than one car, so two, three cars in the house. So for one to be perhaps at home charging off the solar, whilst the other one's off at work or not at home, then when everyone returns back at home in the evening, that vehicle is ready to be used as the main source of power for the energy for the evening and morning.
- [46:00]
A
Yeah. Because I think it's important to kind of remind ourselves that running a house for, say, an hour off your car will probably use the same amount of power as it takes to drive 10 kilometers, if that, you know.
- [46:12]
C
Yeah. There's so much energy potential in these. These vehicles. Yeah. Like it's. Yeah. It's enough to power the house for days.
- [46:20]
A
Yes. Yeah.
- [46:21]
C
People that may not realize just how large of that the battery is in a. In a Bev.
- [46:28]
A
Yeah.
- [46:29]
C
Compared to like a. And also the Relative affordability of that, the battery in that battery electric vehicle compared to the cost of home battery energy solutions. Yeah, we've really, really like the cost of just the competitive nature of the market. The cost of those electric vehicles have really made that, that battery so affordable.
- [46:51]
A
And I mean, do you see the cost continue. You know, have we levelled out in terms of cost of electric vehicles? Because, I mean, it has dropped and the cost of batteries has dropped so dramatically in the last 15, 20 years. I mean, it's really extraordinary to see that when you see the graphs that describe that drop, you go, that is really a big change. I mean, have we reached a sort of lower plateau of vehicle cost or do you think they could get even cheaper?
- [47:19]
C
I think for the current battery chemistry that we're talking about probably reached those lower levels and we won't see a step change until we change battery chemistry.
- [47:32]
A
Right.
- [47:32]
C
So that might be like sodium, sodium batteries or, or a mature solid state battery that's going to be much, much further into the future. But yeah, yeah, I guess what we're seeing now is incremental improvements to energy density.
- [47:50]
A
Right.
- [47:51]
C
And charge and discharge rates for LFP blown batteries that, yeah. Have reached this level that are very cost effective.
- [48:01]
A
Yeah, I mean, that's, I think, the, the flip side of it, when people ask about the cost, I say you can buy a car today that costs the same, you know, relatively the same as one that you could buy 15 years ago, but the one you buy today will do 250 to 300 miles more on one charge than the, than the one you would have bought back then. I mean, I, you know, the Nissan Leaf's a very good example of that because if, If I got 60 miles out of my Nissan Leaf when I first had it, that was a good day, you know, and I mean that's, I think you could do more than that on the. If it was sunny and you had a following wind and you weren't going up a big hill, but, you know, you really were restricted with that car. Whereas, you know, cars that cost the same as that now will do 250 miles easy, minimum, you know, if not much more, you know, which is. So we've seen effectively more energy, more battery for the same amount of money. I suppose that's how it's, how it's evolved.
- [49:00]
C
Yeah, it's kind of leveled up in, in all aspects. We're seeing you're getting more energy density by driving range, you're getting more tech in the vehicle, so it's more connected. There's Definitely a big improvement in connected vehicle features, connected services and just overall luxury features as well, particularly the BYD intensive cars.
- [49:24]
A
Well, you can put the heating on or the cooling on. You could put the heating on in the Nissan Leaf, but you really wouldn't. You have to go further than the.
- [49:35]
C
The adoption of heat pumps has been made a huge vehicles. Just improving that. That efficiency. Efficiency and not having to use the thermal. The thermal conduit.
- [49:47]
A
Yeah. Well, I think BYD have got cars available for test drives at the Everything Electric show in Melbourne. I don't know. I hope so.
- [49:58]
C
I hope so.
- [50:00]
A
Yeah, I hope so.
- [50:01]
C
I'll speak to someone about that. Make sure.
- [50:03]
A
Yeah, speak to someone about that. But, I mean, I know you guys, you. We just. We just had a show in the UK and there was a. One of the biggest stands was a BYD one. So I'm. But I just want to point out, I don't organize the shows. I have nothing to do, so I never know till I get there and I walk around and go, oh, there's byd. I don't know what's going on. Which is a very privileged position to be in. I don't have to. Don't have to worry about it because it's, It's a horrendous job. If I organize the shows, they would be an absolute disaster. It would be terrible. So. But it's been really good to talk to you, Sajid. Thank you so much for your time. I mean, it's really. I'm kind of envious of your job because it's, it's, you know, it's not that. I think this is. The exciting thing that's happening is if you work selling cars 25 years ago, you just have a job selling cars and then there's a new model comes out and it's got a different front design and that's it. But it's still a petrol car and that's what it. That's all it is. Whereas now the technology, as you've alluded to, is constantly evolving, constantly changing. There's constantly new technology emerging. You know, it's a very exciting time to be in that business.
- [51:09]
C
It totally is. I've been in this industry for 17 years and I just haven't seen the, the pace of technology evolution be this fast ever. Yeah, it's just incredible. I've always likened product planning, which has always been like my, my, my career history. I've likened it to a game of Tetris. There's no end to it. Oh, I guess There is level 99,999, but. But it basically just gets faster and faster and all the.
- [51:46]
A
The blocks and you got to keep.
- [51:48]
C
Up screaming down the screen and you're having to, like, look ahead and, you know, make things fit.
- [51:52]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's a big challenge, but exciting, though. Exciting. Very good. Now, that's been great to talk to you. Thank you once again and good luck with everything. I hope it's. It's a thriving market in the next few years. I'm sure it will be.
- [52:08]
C
Thanks very much, Robert. It's been. It's been a pleasure.
- [52:11]
A
Well, there we go. Really hope you enjoyed that. Really hope you can join us in Melbourne and if you're near there, in fact, Sajid was in Melbourne when. When I was talking to him, and also, sadly, he's not going to be at the show because he's going to be in China. There we go. Bad timing on our part, but all that. Do please tell your mates about this, this podcast and this and the Everything Electric Tech Show. Please do subscribe if you haven't already, because there are some amazing new technologies that we've already filmed that we're going to be showing on the channel in the near future. We also get incredible guests on the podcast. Really is worth checking it out, but that's all. As always, you know what I'm going to say if you have been. Oh, yes, that's right.
- [52:54]
C
Thank you for watching.