CATL CTO On The Truth About 3-Minute Charging, Sodium & Solid-State!

Summary

Everything Electric Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode: CATL CTO On The Truth About 3-Minute Charging, Sodium & Solid-State!
Host: Elliot (Fully Charged Show)
Guest: Limbo Su, CTO Overseas Market, CATL
Date: May 11, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Elliot interviews Limbo Su, the CTO for CATL’s overseas market, at the Beijing Motor Show 2026. The discussion dives deep into the latest battery technologies developed by CATL, including rapid-charging lithium, sodium-ion, and progress towards solid-state batteries. They also discuss weight reduction, global expansion, recycling, and the future of electrification.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. CATL’s Culture and Limbo Su’s Background

• CATL is described as engineering and research-driven, focusing on deep technical development.
• Limbo Su began in chemical engineering/material science and progressed from cell development to CTO (01:18–02:19).

2. Latest Battery Innovations

• ’Keeling’ and ‘Chilin’ Technologies:

  • High energy density (up to 280 Wh/kg for Chilin 3rd gen, and above 350 Wh/kg for next-gen batteries).
  • Focus on reducing battery weight (~40% lighter than previous generations), enhancing range, and supporting ultra-fast charging (as fast as 3 minutes 44 seconds for 10–80% SOC) (02:59–06:16).
  • Safety is prioritized as energy density rises; new thermal management systems developed.

• Aviation-Grade Batteries:

  • Next-gen batteries derived from eVTOL/aviation applications now considered for vehicles, but with intense safety and cost barriers.

• Sodium-Ion Batteries:

  • CATL pioneered sodium batteries as alternatives to lithium during market price spikes.
  • Particularly suited for small vehicles (A0/A00 segment – 10–20 kWh packs) and stationary storage.
  • Features excellent low-temperature performance (08:35–09:30).

• Battery Swapping & Fast Charging:

  • CATL demonstrated battery swapping stations with integrated supercharging capability, catering to different mobility needs (09:30–10:54).

3. Weight Reduction and Vehicle Performance

• CATL is actively working to reduce battery weight, emphasizing this as a major factor for European automakers who value dynamic driving and efficiency (11:44–12:47).
• Next-gen batteries expected to achieve further weight reductions, particularly at the system (not just cell) level by leveraging advanced lightweight materials and innovative structures (12:47–14:27).

“When cell energy density reaches 350 to 380 Wh/kg, the weight reduction rate will slow down, but there’s still some space to improve at system level.” – Limbo Su (13:20)

4. Limits of Aviation-Grade Batteries for Cars

• Ultra-high-density batteries (e.g., 500 Wh/kg) are currently not viable for cars mainly due to their prohibitive cost and special requirements (e.g., titanium housings and advanced safety for thermal runaway) (15:13–16:01).

5. Solid-State Batteries: Hype vs Reality

• CATL has 500+ engineers in solid-state R&D, but full commercial readiness is still years away.
• Demo vehicles with solid-state batteries are possible in 1-2 years, but costs and scalability remain significant hurdles (17:14–19:24).

“We are a company for serious product development – not for the paper, not for marketing. The maturity level is not high enough for mass production.” – Limbo Su (18:01)

6. EV Adoption in Europe

• European electrification rates are accelerating (up to 30% new car sales are electric in Q1 2026).
• Main factors: greater EV range (500–1000 km), faster charging (sub-20 minutes), and technical advancements making EVs practical and enjoyable.
• Infrastructure and local market preferences (e.g., driving dynamics) are also key adoption levers (20:08–23:49).

7. Building Battery Factories in Europe

• CATL’s experience in building a factory in Germany was more challenging than in China due to strict regulations, especially for cell plants (long learning curve, complexity, and stringent safety/environmental controls).
• Experience enables faster expansion (e.g., next plant in Hungary) (23:56–27:43).

“We can never underestimate the complexity to build a cell plant in Europe. But this is a very good learning curve for CATL to operate as an international company.” – Limbo Su (27:26)

8. Battery Recycling & Circular Economy

• In China, battery recycling is already significant; >10% of battery materials are from recycling, feeding back into CATL’s supply.
• Europe lacks sufficient end-of-life batteries for large-scale recycling, but future EU regulations will require and enable more closed-loop recycling operations (28:29–31:56).

9. The Future: 10-Year Outlook

• Anticipates strong growth in electrification, extending to aviation, stationary storage, and other industries.
• Both lithium and sodium-ion batteries are expected to scale, with solid-state and high-density tech maturing and costs falling.
• Full electrification will become prevalent across multiple sectors (32:24–33:56).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Engineering Focus at CATL:

  “We are the company for serious product development – not for the paper, not for marketing.”
  – Limbo Su (18:01)

• On Fast-Charging Progress:

  “10 to 80% SOC is like 3 minutes 44 seconds...less than 4 minutes. Even like, let’s have a coffee—by the time we’re done, the battery’s more than 80% charged.”
  – Limbo Su (06:16)

• On Weight and Driving Performance:

  “Weight is more sensitive in the premium segment—relates to dynamic driving, braking distance, tire consumption… definitely is a very important factor.”
  – Limbo Su (12:05)

• On Battery Recycling:

  “In China, some part is more than 10% from recycled lithium. In Europe, the feedstock is not enough yet, but when regulations require it, closed-loop recycling will come.”
  – Limbo Su (30:27)

• On the Next Decade for Batteries:

  “Electrification will be everywhere…in mobility, electricity—different segments will become common.”
  – Limbo Su (33:29)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Guest Introduction & CATL Overview: 00:41–02:30
• Overview of New Technologies: 02:59–10:54
• Weight Reduction and Performance: 10:54–14:27
• Aircraft Batteries & Car Application Limits: 15:01–16:01
• Solid-State Battery Development: 16:47–19:24
• European Market & EV Adoption: 20:08–23:49
• Building Factories Abroad: 23:49–27:43
• Battery Recycling & Circular Economy: 27:43–31:56
• Future of Batteries (10-Year Outlook): 32:24–33:56

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Tone and Style

CATL, via Limbo Su, presents a technical, candid, and pragmatic view: realistic about challenges, open about the serious, engineering-led process, and focused on practical solutions rather than hype. Elliot brings in curiosity, wit, and European perspectives, emphasizing real-world concerns (driving dynamics, recycling, adoption rates), ensuring the conversation remains accessible and grounded despite the technical depth.

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This episode provides a rare, jargon-free look into the rapidly evolving world of battery innovation, direct from one of its key industry leaders. Anyone following the future of mobility, sustainability, or next-gen energy storage will find invaluable insight here.

Transcript

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[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Hello and welcome to the Everything Electric show podcast. Today we have a very special guest, LB Ju from CATL. We're at the Beijing Motor Show 2026 and we've got a really lucky chance to speak to you. You're from Catl. I've got you for about 30 minutes. So obviously I'm very interested in CATL. We think the battery technology that goes into the cars in the market is one of the most important innovations in the market. And I think that being able to speak to you is very, very lucky for us and the listeners. So if you could just introduce yourself and what do you do?

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Yep. Hello everyone. My name is Limbo Su. My current job is first, I'm responsible for the technology development for overseas market. Except China of course. We have a good connection also with our domestic team. And my second job is to respond for the business in Europe. I joined CTO 14 years ago after my education and work in US and since then I responded for the first, I responded for the cell development same project management, then sales, all kind of functions. Now I'm CTO for overseas market. Yes.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

So I find that a lot of people who work for CATL are engineers first and then they kind of move into other corporate roles. So you were an engineer, is that right? And you learned. I think it was physics, was it?

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

At university I educated in PhD in Chemical Engineering and also minor in material science.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

I mean that's, that's very mind blowing for me. I don't even get close to understanding any of that. But I think for me Catl is a very kind of engineering driven company.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

You have a lot of researchers. I loved your presentation the other day at the press conference.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Yep.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Because one of the slides on the screen was a chemical formula.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Yep.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

And I've never seen that in a press conference before. I think it's wonderful. It's really good to see kind of that level of detail. Even though I don't understand it. Okay, so we've seen some new products launched at the show this year. Do you want to very very briefly tell us about what some of those project products are?

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Okay. I think in this tech Tech day. In this tech day there are several technologies released under six kind of products and technology they are. They will address different areas, different car segments. For example, for the high end CTU brand name is Keeling. So for this Keeling for next generation and even for Chilin also two technology is chilling. Third generation this is featured with very high energy density like a cell level even at 280 watt hour per kilogram. So this means maybe not easy to understand what's number 280. Let's say just directly compared to LMP. So energy density increased at least more than 40%. 40% means the weight is much lower. So this is kind of feature for high end. Especially for the like mid to high end vehicles like ncm. High power, low weight and more energy in the for the E range. And also this also very featured with very fast charge. And even for the Keeling. We also talk about another one the key link third generation condensed this featured with much higher energy density. So for sale level even more than 350. 50. 350. 350 watt hour per kilogram. And this technology also actually originally from the technology for the aviation like for the Evoto such kind of tension. Because this need a very high energy density. So we want to leverage this technology for the vehicle applications. So this is the background. And this is also featured with if you put all together in the battery system, not only high density 5 charge but safety. Because safety when the engine density get higher like more than 250 or 300. Not mention 350. Safety is not easy to control. And also if safety event happened how to prevent we call thermal condition stop. So all this has been developed for this like solution package for this. So this is a two technology for ncm. Then we also tolerate generation three. So this is more crazy. You know for the file charge you talk about like 10 to 80% SOC is like a 3 minutes 44 seconds. Just let's say less than 4 minutes. So it means that even like let's have a coffee, right? We found out I have charged us battery more than 80%. So this is to solve some concern about the like energy like wind. Like for example in the long range traveling you need like energy like charge your vehicle In a short time. So this technology we used and so the other. The one we also released is we called for the hybrid. For the hybrid, I think the before is called phv.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Right?

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

PHV or even in China some is called iev. But whatever like a CTO really changes this industry. Before like people like mindset like phev usually like 12 years ago like BMW, Mercedes Benz such kind of OEM develop PHEV. The engine content like a battery energy maybe only like 10 to 15 kilowatt hour. 10 to 15. So means E range even like only like 30 kilometer to 100 kilometer. So this small battery with big gas tank. But still do you think future is immobility. And there's a transition from the combustion engine drive to emotor drive. Maybe there are some people still want some like concern about the E range. But still want like the experience of the EMOB E drive. So CTO promote bigger battery. So now this is a battery like even for drive more than 400 kilometer. So basically the idea you don't need to charge your battery per day. You just need like one week or two week one charge. Then if you want long distance still we have a combustion engine. So this is kind of technology to. To meet some to fulfill some people still some concern like this kind of people. So with high end killing and like for entry vehicle even middle vehicle use Shenching. So from shenshing and the chilling generation one to generation three. So you can see CTO keep developing the technology to maximize the capability immobility. So today why like EV is kind of so popular in China. Not people think oh, this is because of the policy. Government encouragement policy. But actually behind when your immobility range more than 50% or 60% definitely behind is this product really meet people's demands. So this is a technology. Then we also in the conference you also see some technology for the. For the sodium.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Yeah, that's the very exciting one.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

So sodium. Actually this also CTO pioneered and also promotes this technology. So Sodia actually is a more get more attention. Actually it's like four and five years ago when that time listing price at high.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Yes.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

So definitely we need some like complementary technology. This technology may not be like replace lithium ion battery. But this is good benefits like complement like a supplement like to the alternative for some special segment. Yes, especially like when like for example one is for some segment for the engine storage. The other we also talk about like for the sodia we have two immediate application. One is in the very like A0 A00 vehicles. This only need, for example the energy in only 10 to 20 kilowatt hour. And, but this also sodium technology has one feature is low temperature performance is amazing. So this is due to the catalytics of this sodium. So all together this is a chemistry then in China, you know for the immobilize something new we need like ecosystem. Ecosystem. One example is our battery swapping station. Like downstairs you can see our demo of this kind of battery swapping technology. But for the new generation we add also the charge. So this like a battery like 10 battery in this kind of station. Actually this can be provide also the supercharger capability for the charging station. So we called like a charge swapping station combined this kind of station. So all this together you can see we want to meet the new demands like. Like a high demand for our customers. And this is also good because we are the basically we are 2B business. So we as a customer of C2 customer you can see C2 can always, always enable our customer to compete in this industrial and also to enable our end customer to enjoy the immobility. So I think this is a background like technology driven. Why it's called ctu. It's called technology driven company. Yes. This is a kind of very brief introduction of our products.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Yeah. Thank you. For me I think there's two main things that I took away. First is I think you guys are the first company I've heard of in China talking about weight. Because we've seen that this show today, there's a lot of three row SUVs. They're getting very big, they're getting quite heavy. But at your press, your tech day, you were talking about how you can reduce the weight of the battery, how that reduces the wear on components. There's many, many benefits. The car is faster, you could get more range. I think this is a very welcome change. I want to know do you think weight is the next technological kind of breakthrough that needs to happen? So weight's gone down a little bit already. Do you think weight will go down more and more over the next few years or is there a technical limit at some point that we're going to hit?

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Yep. So weight actually even for the our. Let's talk about some overseas customer like a Porsche BMW like Audi and also Mercedes Benz. Such a premier segment. Weight maybe is more sensitive.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Yes.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Relate to the driving dynamic completely. Yeah, completely. And also now mention it affect our like braking like a distance and also the if more weight actually the other cost of increase like a tire consumption.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Right.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

And also new brake system development and others. So weight Definitely is a very important factor. But of course people will argue then weight also relate to some cost to some cost like lmp. Of course you can drive maybe similar E range a little more energy. Yeah but more weight maybe car dynamic will be. Will be affected. Affected.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Yeah.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

So in this way I would say. I would say for CTO especially for some segments weight definitely is the point. So that's the reason we have. We developed Killing. We just introduced Killing concept for such kind of very people enjoy this kind of dynamic driving. Driving pressure definitely is very important. And I would say even like compared to three years ago when the killing just developed actually we'd already reduced by more than 100 kilometer. Then Elid imagined how much weight further we can go. I would say we will when the killing condensed battery when cell energy density reaches 350 to 380 watt hour per kilogram then maybe the weight reduction this kind of drop rate will be slow down. I think this could be this also we have some space to squeeze out and this is on the cell level. But on the system level. On the system level there's more work to do. More work to do. Like the lightweight technology in the like housing, housing cover and the production the bumper. Then we also develop some like innovative not only material but also like structure, special structure, less weight, but have a similar strength of the material. So this is still in the ongoing. I think this could be the next generation products. It's just the main points. So we see more. But how much? Eliot, I cannot give you exact number yet, but of course definitely for sure it'll go down okay.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

I mean I wish I could know that number, but I understand why you can't tell me. But for me I'm just excited that there's. Because driving dynamics is really important in European countries. Right. So one of the complaints about the EVs from China is that they don't focus so much on that. But I've seen here today in the last few days that there's a lot more kind of sporty cars. A lot more cars may be suitable for Europe. So I'm glad to see Catl focused on that. One more battery question, then we'll get on to like business questions. I think I saw your aircraft like battery, the 500 watt hours per kilogram battery.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Yep.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

I thought this is great. This is probably a bit of a silly question, but if we have a 500 watt hour per kilogram battery, why can't we put that one in a car? Why can't we put that one in our house?

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Okay. For the car business, cost is always the topic. And for the five, if we go to above 450 to 500 watt hour per kilogram, then the cost will be dramatically higher. So the cost not only on the chemistry, but also the others. For example, we need a special housing case like a titanium and the cell to cell if something happened propagation need a very special design. So today we think cost will be the more like breaking point for this. Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Okay. All right, good to know because lots of people say oh well, I just want that battery in my car. And I said it's probably not that easy.

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[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Everyone at the moment is talking about solid state. So solid state is, you know, the. The next breakthrough I guess. And a lot of people have made announcements in the last few months that they've got solid state or they're very close to producing solid state. My feeling is that if CATL have not done solid state yet, then it's unlikely that other people will be able to do it on a mass market scale.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

What.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

What's the problem that still needs to be solved with solid state batteries bringing

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

it to market City. We have one special division maybe all the development material science, material scientist, cell design, process industrialization. Maybe around more than. Maybe more than 500 people just working on a solid state. Working on solid state, working on. So as a technical company like cto maybe we are more serious about this technology and why we didn't give always give very positive like a very promising results to the public. I think we always because we are the company for the serious product development means the product not for the paper, not for the like marketing purpose.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Media.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Yeah yeah. Media like getting attention. We are more like for the products in the car. So I think in different cases, different occasions. And Robin, our CEO also mentioned several times. I think information definitely is keep us is consistent. The maturity level not high enough yet for the mass production like Globbin gives the skill like a four to five just means you can demonstrate the sample. Yes. And maybe you can also to like install this kind of battery for some demo cars. In a limited quantity. Yes, we can do this. But for the mass production you need to solve the weather cost efficiency and also like industrialization, mass production and also important the cost, the cost to fulfill the economy. Very, very super expensive. Then it becomes a demo car. So in this way alien. I would say we are working on that. But in next year we will have next year or in two years we have some demo car with the solid state for sure for testing. But for the mass production we still see still few more years more.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

I like to hear like the real story from Catl because if I don't hear it from you guys, then I don't think it's really going to go to the market. When I hear it from you at your next tech day in two or three years time, then I know it's real. So you spend a lot of time in Europe as part of your job. What do you think is the biggest problem with electrification in Europe? So for example In Germany only 3% of the market like for example takes there's only 3% of the market has Chinese cars. Whereas in the UK it's about 11%. I think in Norway it's 14%. What do you think is the biggest issue with electric vehicle or hybrid vehicle adoption rates in Europe?

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Okay, good question. This also I'm thinking. But one thing I would say in Europe in the past two or three years immoral rate get accelerated. Like last year in the whole EU the average immoral rate is around is around 28%. But Q1 this year in Europe is above 30%. Especially in March. In March only we see a big increase. Year to year increase in Europe is more than 55,0 50% increase. Of course this is driven by several factors by observation and also our inks other battery or cell module battery like supplies to these vehicles. Like, for example one is the Mercy Benz GLC and also CLA get a very very very good demand demands. Even CTO need to use all the resources to to find the modest lines capacity to meet their demands. So unexpected high demands. And also BMW IX3 also is definitely out expectation even for their OEM itself is the information. So why get popular? Of course maybe just few a few few months. Maybe the gas price much higher like about €2 something per liter is one factor. I think this. But this is not a main factor. I would say maybe the main factor maybe the today this kind of EV to European some maybe to some a lot of your it becomes a vehicle it's not a real vehicle. Not like it's kind of toil so to manage. Why? Because now you get a very decent E range like this kind of E range. Always kind of above like it depends on different profile.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Yeah.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Let's say 500 kilometer, 2000 kilometer. And this people will feel comfortable, you know, not. Not like before. 200 or 300, 400 at least almost 50%, 200% increase the E range because 800 volts. Like energy efficiency is much higher everything. So this means technology wise is really in the new generation, really advanced. And also far charge rate usually always be like 20 minutes or below. So people will accept this. Of course, some like charging station also not very good infrastructure, but also improve. So all this factor together. Well, once people will think, oh, this is asking us this. This EV is really called car. Is a car now to European standard. Maybe this man kind of guess. Oh, now it's car. And also when the drive really people will like it. This kind of dynamic, this acceleration. So not every people, but I would say significant model. More and more people like it, love it. So I will see. And also another way I think you will be people really concerned about this environment. This really fits their vision.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Yeah.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

So I think this kind of combined factors we'll see to drive. We see this acceleration, acceleration, transportation to immobility. This is kind of my thinking.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Yes. So you were responsible, you were partially responsible for building the new factory in Germany.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Can you tell me a bit about the process of setting up a battery factory in Germany? So I think setting up a battery factory in China is relatively simple because you've done it a few times. But how do you take battery, that kind of technology or learnings into a completely different market and set up a battery factory there?

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

When we talk about this, maybe maybe we hear more complaints, right? Complaints about how to do the industrialization or localization, especially sail plants. Maybe for the module plants or the battery plants is really easy, much easier. But for the sail plants and also. Ilya, you also visit our plant. You can see.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

That's right.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Maybe from front to the end, maybe more than 1km length.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Yes.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

So you can all the big scale machines all together. And so they lead to a lot of chemistry. Yes, chemistry and moving parts like chemical electricity. Some altogether. So this is will be like. And also laser. All kinds of laser welding. So all means. Actually this also lead to a lot of regulations in Europe. Like even for the duct, for example, during the mixing step, Castle mixing step. We have nnp. So there will be all kinds of regulations to see if the spit out of the NP on the floor, for example. Then what kind of countermeasure we need to do. Whether we use steel floor or whatever. Will be the ventilation and also the connection circulation to cannot let the NP out of the space. How to like recycle. So all this even this step and I call it review. So make a thing really complicated. So when Chinese battery supply cell supplies want to do the localizing in Europe. If for our first plan really challenging because we needed to understand all kinds of regulations. And also we need to understand their construction like building construction. And also the another one is a machine requirement. Machine requirement. They needed like certification like to to prevent like operators all kinds of protection. Of course in China also for sure competition caching this but definite regulations requirements. So I would say all this together. I would say we. We can never underestimate the complexity to build a sail plant in Europe. Not imagine our first product in Germany. Yes, this will be more of course very challenging. Yeah yeah. So I would say and, but for CTO I would say this will be a very good learning curve. Yes learning curve. So this reason you can see why we can set have a second plant in Hungary. So speed is much, much faster experience. Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

You definitely went into the hardest market first.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

With most regulations. Yeah.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

So I would say this also is good. Like CTO can like become maybe a little international company so we can operate in overseas and in a ferry regulation driven environment.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

So I think it's very interesting because you know, in the 80s and 90s a lot of Western companies were going into China to set up their factories for the first time. But now it's the other way around. All the Chinese factories are now setting up overseas. I think one more question is around recycling. So battery recycling. So we have had a number of programs on YouTube about battery recycling. It's still on quite a small scale. There doesn't seem to be much regulation or standardization of battery recycling at the moment. How much of a part will that play for Catl in the future? Will it become like a significant part of the business? Or what's going to happen?

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Okay. In China recycle business is significant part. One reason that first is the material cycle from battery from electrical parts like computer iPhone, recycled lithium coal Cobo legacy flounces. Because this is also the big amount. And also now in China some third generation of battery also get recycled. So this even CTO itself we have recycled. This skill is in the dozens of thousand tons more than this should be 100,000. Such kind of skills tons scale. So and also this kind of material like lithium nickel has been go back to our battery today. And even for lithium some part is more than 10% is from recycled lithium. So in China this becomes a necessary part in this circular economy. This really do in China it's happened and also we see this benefit beneficial not only to make us less dependent on the raw material self and also to contribute to the CO2 saving for the. For the mining definite to the recycle the CO2 much less lithium nickel especially nickel such can cobalt and also like this environmental. But imagine to the European why we didn't see such kind of skill yet is mentioned. Elliot, I would say not ready yet because the used end life battery are not enough yet.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Not enough.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Are not enough yet. And this kind of feedstock not enough. And the second point that we see is the. We don't have the. I think we will build not like a bigger recycle company yet. You can see the small one. Yes, small one, small skill. Because small skill means we need to pay your recycler to collect my battery I need to pay you money. But in China opposite. But I will see in Europe it will come when the skill reach some points and because it's also required by the European battery regulations like for some like 28, 2030, you need a different amount of recycled metal in the battery. So this will be also the regulation required. So CTO is preparing all that because we have a subsidiary company pump to do this and also we are open to work with other partners on the recycle because we also in Europe we also want to build this closed loop this not only for the accumulat like CO2 also save money because definitely for the NCM, lithium, nickel, cobalt the cost can be really much should be lower by this kind of recycle process. So I would say in Europe definitely it'll come. It'll come.

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

Just needs a bit of time I think one more question and we can wrap up just around what was I going to say? Oh, the future. So what does the next 10 years look like for the battery industry? Not just in China but around the world. What are going to be some of the big breakthroughs? What are going to be some of the big innovations? What's the world going to look? Well, no one knows what the world will look like. But what's going to happen with batteries in the next 10 years?

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

As you can for CTO now the main two business one is a battery for EVs the other the battery for engine storage. I think in 10 years we see the more electrification for the to the other for the other industrial whether Evolto, Aviation and also the others. So I would say I think in the world it's like carbon neutral is kind of this is a very common understanding. So I think in 10 years I would say whether the lithium battery or sodium battery the volume will get big and the electrician will be more expanded to the different areas. So this is thing is we can image the other in terms of technology. In terms of technology I would say the battery technology whether you can imagine very solid state or city also like a condensed batteries the technology maturity will be much higher, much higher cost will down. So we see so everything just like because this is a kind of a building block this building can get more efficient, cost effective. So I see that whether in mobility or electricity different segments will become common. So my big image like electrification will be will be everywhere and I mean

[Podcast Host (Elliot)]

that's very good for here. And I think our audience have found it very interesting to kind of get a behind the scenes view of Catl the battery business expansion in Europe. So thank you very much for your time and I hope everyone who's watching on YouTube or listening at home has enjoyed this interview. So thank you.

[Limbo Su (CATL CTO Overseas Market)]

Thank you much.

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